I tend to leave it on charge over night, then use it during the day (Browsing, comms etc..).
But then I charge it again halfway thru the day in case I run out of battery if I'm out late at night (more comms). Even if half left.
Then the cycle gets repeated..
Buy a spare battery or is this even more detrimental?
You have nothing to worry about as Li-Ion batteries (what the HD uses) do not suffer from the memory effect (which is what you're worried about). Top charging will have no negative affect on the battery. Whatever max battery loss that you might loose overtime is equivalent to if the battery was never used or used 100%-0% every time. Probably after a year or two you may want to get a new battery as the old will no longer hold quite as much charge as it did originally.
Interesting! i do the same thing Panos was worried about that.
not anymore
Paul.
I got my HD just before Christmas. Initially my battery life was very good lasting 2-3 days on one change.
For the past 3 months I put the phone on charge every night.
I've just had to buy a new battery; it now only holds charge for a few hours of continuous use and after an overnight charge only reaches about 80% capacity.
I know the boffins say Lithium Ion has no memory but my battery is trying to evolve and develop a memory
2-3days! u couldnt have been on the wap wap then?
or was u? mine lasts a day, thats going on wap for like 3 hours, calls, text.
Paul.
"but my battery is trying to evolve and develop a memory"
hehe
well maybe your batt was just ½ defect to begin with and then got worse and worse
So to confirm again, even if the HD reaches 50% battery life, i can recharge back to 100% with no problem?
Damn i've always heard it to be the other way round. I always hear about people complaining when they leave their nokia phones on charge overnight only to last less and less.
no matter what you do batteries get worse and worse
½defect poor ones sooner then good ones
thanks guys for response.
I've heard different methods but get confused with lith/li-onetc..
I've heard even with this type its best to run down completely once a while in order for it to "calibrate".
as long as its not too damaging I don't mind charging.
after all what's the point of such a kick-ass screen if I don't take advantage of it.. the whole day!
battery
ofcourse that ture HD battery is not that good as before previously it use to give 1.5 days. every day charge worries me aswell in first few months it use to give battery life equally even if its first 90-100% or 0-10% but now 20% battery is not realiable aswell.
panos123 said:
thanks guys for response.
I've heard different methods but get confused with lith/li-onetc..
I've heard even with this type its best to run down completely once a while in order for it to "calibrate".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's Ni/Cd batteries you're thinking of.
Any lithium battery will hate you for running it down completely; you'll harm it and it won't "calibrate" because of it.
ive done the charging overnight method on pretty much all of my phones and have never noticed any dramatic change?i have been told you need to discharge the battery completely once in a while??
bonesy said:
i have been told you need to discharge the battery completely once in a while??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't I answer this in the post before yours?
Don't completely drain a lithium battery.
A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its service life is dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in "capacity". This means an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This is due to an increase in internal resistance, which affects its ability to deliver current, thus the problem is more pronounced in high-current applications than low. This drawback is not widely published. However, as this capacity decreases over time, the time required to charge it also decreases proportionally. Also, high charge levels and elevated temperatures hasten permanent capacity loss for Lithium ion batteries. This heat is caused by the traditional carbon anode, which has been replaced with good results by Lithium titanate. Lithium titanate has been experimentally shown to drastically reduce the degenerative effects associated with charging including expansion and other factors.
At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in for example a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to a prolonged exposure to much higher temperatures, which will significantly shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.
In essence, a battery stored at half capacity will last longer, but ofcourse you want to use it at full capacity. It's an inherent drawback.
Also, Li-ion batteries are not as durable as nickel metal hydride or nickel-cadmium designs, and can be extremely dangerous if mistreated. They may explode if overheated or if charged to an excessively high voltage. Furthermore, they may be irreversibly damaged if discharged below a certain voltage. To reduce these risks, li-ion batteries generally contain a small circuit that shuts down the battery when discharged below a certain threshold (typically 3 V) or charged above a certain limit (typically 4.2 V).
wow dude you are Gordon Freeman
Whoah! Thanks for that.
can you just clarify one more thing though?
I know the battery tells itself to stop charging once full but how about operating the device whilst charging?
It gets very hot so how bad is this in short term? Dangerously bad?
Holy Bear said:
Didn't I answer this in the post before yours?
Don't completely drain a lithium battery.
A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its service life is dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in "capacity". This means an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This is due to an increase in internal resistance, which affects its ability to deliver current, thus the problem is more pronounced in high-current applications than low. This drawback is not widely published. However, as this capacity decreases over time, the time required to charge it also decreases proportionally. Also, high charge levels and elevated temperatures hasten permanent capacity loss for Lithium ion batteries. This heat is caused by the traditional carbon anode, which has been replaced with good results by Lithium titanate. Lithium titanate has been experimentally shown to drastically reduce the degenerative effects associated with charging including expansion and other factors.
At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in for example a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to a prolonged exposure to much higher temperatures, which will significantly shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.
In essence, a battery stored at half capacity will last longer, but ofcourse you want to use it at full capacity. It's an inherent drawback.
Also, Li-ion batteries are not as durable as nickel metal hydride or nickel-cadmium designs, and can be extremely dangerous if mistreated. They may explode if overheated or if charged to an excessively high voltage. Furthermore, they may be irreversibly damaged if discharged below a certain voltage. To reduce these risks, li-ion batteries generally contain a small circuit that shuts down the battery when discharged below a certain threshold (typically 3 V) or charged above a certain limit (typically 4.2 V).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really nice info, thank you for that.
panos123 said:
Whoah! Thanks for that.
can you just clarify one more thing though?
I know the battery tells itself to stop charging once full but how about operating the device whilst charging?
It gets very hot so how bad is this in short term? Dangerously bad?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not really, i used to have Xperia, and you have to see how that one gets hot!
really HOT, specially Charging + WiFi or GPS!
but nothing happens.
plus high temps (if i remember correctly) something more than 60c so it's so far from there.
good cos I kinda like it.
Like one of hand warmer things you get from a camping store..
Id like to have another question?
Is it OK if I do this?
Sometimes I put my blackstone on charger. It charges up to eg. 80% but I need to go to lunch (I forgot to mentioon that I am at work). So I pull out the charger take the phone and after hour I return and put the phone back on charger...is this bad?
Thanks.
No, that should do no harm to your battery.
But think about the USB jack. Don't plug it in and out 100 times a day.
My old phone's USB jack lost its stability after the 2 years due to that excessive use.
I have another issue. Don't know if it has been discussed on another thread. The battery indicator on the Touch HD is not lineal at all. Once you're below 50% if drops quickly. 20% and 10% are almost inexistent, I get the alert of low battery a few minutes after seeing the battery at 30%.
I had a HTC TyTN II before and at least the battery indicator was more lineal. In the Touch HD I try to charge before it goes below 50%.
Related
We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Vincent Law said:
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.
Silly question, but thought it would be good to ask nevertheless,
Does Adaptive Fast Charging Reduce the Lifespan of your Device?
How is the impact on the overall number of charge cycles for the removable battery?
it reduces the lifespan of your battery not your device. charging at anything exceeding 1C damages the battery. thats 1.5 hours for a full charge.
then again the battery is 30 bucks.
Let the battery drop to 2%, then let it recharge!
Over time, we all know that most batteries lose a lot of their useful juice.
>> I'd suggest making the battery life-life last longer, by letting the battery drop to 2%, then, recharging it fully! This is to avoid battery swelling in the phone, which may cause an internal damage to your phone's components :good:
Happy browsing!
VERSVCE said:
Over time, we all know that most batteries lose a lot of their useful juice.
>> I'd suggest making the battery life-life last longer, by letting the battery drop to 2%, then, recharging it fully! This is to avoid battery swelling in the phone, which may cause an internal damage to your phone's components :good:
Happy browsing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that too low? Won't doing that actually reduce battery life in the long run? I've read that it's good to let it drop to 20% before re-charging it.
Analogy time!
jpbl1976 said:
Isn't that too low? Won't doing that actually reduce battery life in the long run? I've read that it's good to let it drop to 20% before re-charging it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's imagine you were a phone that was used the whole day, and your batteries are down to 2% Let's say that 2% is your subconscious, to run all that extra information that's through your brain, telling you "Hey, you got extra (at 20%) a whole lot of space for new power juice!"
I know it's sounds like a very childish analogy, but I guess this is the best way I could've explained it :fingers-crossed:
Best information source on batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/
The batteries degrade as a function of discharge cycles (where 10 discharges to 90% are roughly the same as one discharege to 0%), time, temperature and charge.
Batteries age slowest when they are at 40%. That's why your out of the box battery is usually 40%, to prolong shelf life.
Batteries age faster the higher the temperature is - adaptive charging increases the temperature while charging more than normal charging, but not by much nor for a long time.
So no need to worry about anything. Charging from 2% is not better than charging from 20%.
Note, their article http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries does not take into account the adaptive charging technology, so the last graph is not really applicable in this case.
I don't like quoting batteryuniversity.. but this is pretty good analysis.. Depth of Dicharge is directly related to the overall longevity of the lithium batteries.. more you discharge.. the less cycles you're going to get..
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
but.. considering that these batteries are $30 bucks.. use them how you like.. just replace it when you start to "FEEL" that battery isn't holding the charge anymore.
The only thing that Samsung said about the Adaptive Fast Charging adapter is that you can charge 50% of the whole charge in only 30 minutes. They didn't say what tecnology they used or any warning of it. If you buy a phone, and it cames with the original charger which is aproved by the FCC and who knows what other organizations tested it, it means that you will not have any problem with the battery by using the original charger that comes with your device. Anyway, a normal smartphone battery only lasts it's original capacity for almost 2 years, after that, consider to replace it.
http://chargedevs.com/newswire/new-...age-lithium-ion-batteries-as-much-as-thought/
zurkx said:
it reduces the lifespan of your battery not your device. charging at anything exceeding 1C damages the battery. thats 1.5 hours for a full charge.
then again the battery is 30 bucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so how much "C" this adaptive charger Note 4 ?
As far as I know modern phones know how much juice is in the battery, and shut off well before the battery is empty to ensure no damage is done if you drain it completely.
With all my new phones I always run them till the turn off then fully charge them back while off up to 4 or 5 times, and in the past this has always improved the life of the battery.
I do not believe this improved the battery life of modern phones though, it's just a habit.
On the flip side, it's never damaged a phone or battery of mine.
As for charging currents and speed, i've always used used charger 1.5amp and above and never had a problem.
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app
Hello!
I just received my new S7 edge and boy I love it. I have charged it only twice and now as it is 11 pm and my phone is left with just 17% battery, I need to charge it.
So I usually charged my old HTC One M7 overnight, not thinking about how it might ruin or damage the battery.
But how about the S7 edge? When does the adapter in the outlet know, when to stop charging?
The S7 supports fast charging, which I am using.
But with 6 hours of sleep, won't it over-charge overnight?
Since it's still sending small electrical pulses into the battery even though it's full.
Please help me!
Charging overnight shouldn't do damage. However, try to decrease use of fast charging. It creates more heat than normal charging, and heat exposure damages the battery.
You also want to charge your battery before it hits 40%. This is due to how lithium ion batteries work. Also, most recommendations say charge only to 80%.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
*
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
No harm in leaving it plugged in all night and charging to 100%. The phone controls the battery from being overcharged, not the charger. I've switched off fast charging on mine, as that can be hard on a battery over time and I have no need for it charge any faster than overnight.
Thanks for the info. I didnt know that. And does the battery also work better, as in gives you more SOT if you charge it like you said?
Saridas said:
Thanks for the info. I didnt know that. And does the battery also work better, as in gives you more SOT if you charge it like you said?
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No it won't. It just makes the battery last longer before it needs replacement. It's not going to affect how fast you drain your battery because that's dependent on your usage.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
not talking really about sot here, but about the battery health over months/years
I can read some posts where people report a very bad sot, when the Z play is normally a very good device regarding battery, There are several possible causes of course, the rom, the apps used... and battery degradation over months.
According to a studie, a lithium ion battery loose 10% every 250 charge cycles, there is some rules to help to not loose more :
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life.
- avoid charge over 90%
- avoid use below 20/15%
- Battery lithium ion hate heat, so when charging avoid use your phone, can add heat from cpu mostly with games, and you will charge/heat longer
- the turbo charger make the phone heat like hell, and again lithium ion batteries can't stand the heat, it's a fact, Somes will say it's normal because it is sold like that. I won't take the risk if not needed, so i use only the turbo charger when urgency, otherwise i use my lenovo tablet charger (5,2v / 2A), that charge quite fast too with no heat at all.
I wish there was an option to turn off fast charging like on Samsung phones...
I don't know if we got different phones, but I always charge phone with stock turbocharger and its never hot - when I'm not using it during charging is not even warmer than normally, when I use phone during charging it's little warm.
Baronik said:
I don't know if we got different phones, but I always charge phone with stock turbocharger and its never hot - when I'm not using it during charging is not even warmer than normally, when I use phone during charging it's little warm.
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really ?? mines heat a lot too with turbocharger and without using it during charge
Mine too, but i put it on the stone cold floor and it's much better. You should do this.
fablebreton said:
not talking really about sot here, but about the battery health over months/years
I can read some posts where people report a very bad sot, when the Z play is normally a very good device regarding battery, There are several possible causes of course, the rom, the apps used... and battery degradation over months.
According to a studie, a lithium ion battery loose 10% every 250 charge cycles, there is some rules to help to not loose more :
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life.
- avoid charge over 90%
- avoid use below 20/15%
- Battery lithium ion hate heat, so when charging avoid use your phone, can add heat from cpu mostly with games, and you will charge/heat longer
- the turbo charger make the phone heat like hell, and again lithium ion batteries can't stand the heat, it's a fact, Somes will say it's normal because it is sold like that. I won't take the risk if not needed, so i use only the turbo charger when urgency, otherwise i use my lenovo tablet charger (5,2v / 2A), that charge quite fast too with no heat at all.
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I suggest following[1] battery charge limit app ... It works fine ( root required )
[1]
https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002/
or just use a regular 1A/2A charger at home and only use turbocharger on the go
I've also done research into this, as this is the first phone I want to keep more than a year and a half. My conclusions from multiple sources are as follows (quite similar to your findings):
- Don't charge over 90%, but really you shouldn't charge past 80-85% (choose your percent based on how much you will need for the day)
- As you said, don't go below 20%, but really you shouldn't go lower than 40%.
From what I can tell, the 80-40 rule seems to be a legitimate and fairly reliable rule of thumb for smartphone batteries (don't go below 40%, don't charge past 80%).
Battery University has a lot of good info, and they state that smaller discharges and recharges are generally better for the battery. I've been able to get a full day or two of usage from my Z Play by starting with 90% and not going lower than 35-40%.