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After reluctantly succumbing to the temptation of the iPhone I bought one and used it for 1 week before reverting to my Diamond!
Conclusions - the iPhone is a good communications device. The Diamond is a good communication device AND a mobile Personal Computer. It is so much more versatile, flexible and you can be more productive without relying on your desktop/laptop PC.
The iPhone interface is lovely, fast, robust-feeling and crisp and clear. It has been designed to be like that. HTC have put touch functionality on top of WinMo which was not designed for it so it has a few drawbacks.
I shall no doubt upgrade to the Touch HD as I now accept the HTC failings because the platform is so much better than iPhone.
My question is...how is the HTC Touch HD going to address these?
Any thoughts, considered opinions, or leaked info welcome!!
cheers all
cojones said:
After reluctantly succumbing to the temptation of the iPhone I bought one and used it for 1 week before reverting to my Diamond!
Conclusions - the iPhone is a good communications device. The Diamond is a good communication device AND a mobile Personal Computer. It is so much more versatile, flexible and you can be more productive without relying on your desktop/laptop PC.
The iPhone interface is lovely, fast, robust-feeling and crisp and clear. It has been designed to be like that. HTC have put touch functionality on top of WinMo which was not designed for it so it has a few drawbacks.
I shall no doubt upgrade to the Touch HD as I now accept the HTC failings because the platform is so much better than iPhone.
My question is...how is the HTC Touch HD going to address these?
Any thoughts, considered opinions, or leaked info welcome!!
cheers all
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Click to collapse
so what kind of drawbacks are you talking about?
cause basicallly, the touch hd has got the same interface and OS as the Diamond. Only the screen in bigger. So you will see more at the same time (more appointments on the home screen for example)
Raziel1 said:
so what kind of drawbacks are you talking about?
cause basicly, the touch hd has got the same interface and os as the Diamon. only the screen ins bigger so you will see more at the same time (more appointments on the home screen for example)
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Click to collapse
I agree.. Its a Diamond with a larger screen and 5MP camera. Hopefully it doesn't inherit any of the same GPS lag problems as its kin.
Hi, yes i'm aware it is just Diamond but bigger, i'm wondering if HTC has updated the usability aspects of the hardware, like the screen and the interfaces like the keyboard?
A constant problem for me with the Diamond is the hit-and-miss accuracy of the direction pad. Sometimes pressing right gets actioned as backspace and closes things down. It is also fiddly to position to cursor exactly between required letters in text boxes.
I'm wondering, especially as there is no directional pad on the HD, what measures HTC has implemented to enable this precise kind of interaction.
Just install something like Winterface and the interface will be so much like an iPhone it won't be funny.
The biggest difference that you will find after coming from using an iPhone is the screen. The reason the iPhone screen is so good to use is it is a capacitive screen which means it does not require any pressure to select icons etc. It senses changes in electrical properties brought on by touching it with bare skin. The screen in Windows Mobile devices is resistive which requires pressure by touch or a stylus for accuracy.
Having said that the sensitivity of the screens can be changed and from what I have seen from various hands on videos of the Touch HD the screen looks very sensitive to touch so I am hoping this will very usable.
chrissyboy6969 said:
The biggest difference that you will find after coming from using an iPhone is the screen.
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Click to collapse
Thanks. I am a WinMo person through and through, for about 5 years now, I only had an iPhone for 1 week! I understand the differences with screen technology, do you think HTC will have improved the sensitivity by default?
One of the best features in HD is the new screen.It doesnt use the same technology as Iphone but is very similar in sensitivity,although Iphone screen is still the best in touch screens(flash memory and touch screen are the only things better then latest WM devices...in my opinion of course).
cojones said:
The iPhone interface is lovely, fast, ...
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Click to collapse
This is just a general comment stemmed from yours, not directed at you:
iphone is fast because it doesn't multitask, other than the core apps that came with iphone. apps are "paused" and states are saved when you go into a different application, nothing can run in the background.
microsoft needs to fire their entire marketing team for not attacking this weakness of the iphone and trumpet this as a pro for Windows Mobile. Actually come to think about it, their marketing team should be fired for unable to come up with advertisements that stick in viewers minds (comparing to apple's ads)
the gps is onchip on the qualcomm so apart from antenna
and software they would all performe pretty much the same
buggybug0 said:
This is just a general comment stemmed from yours, not directed at you:
iphone is fast because it doesn't multitask, other than the core apps that came with iphone. apps are "paused" and states are saved when you go into a different application, nothing can run in the background.
microsoft needs to fire their entire marketing team for not attacking this weakness of the iphone and trumpet this as a pro for Windows Mobile. Actually come to think about it, their marketing team should be fired for unable to come up with advertisements that stick in viewers minds (comparing to apple's ads)
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Totally agree!
Yes, that was a frustrating thing with the iPhone for the little time i used it, when tracking my cycle rides it needed to be on (screen off) with the app in the foreground. No chance of continuing to track when a phone call comes in or you need to check something else, e.g google maps, internet, etc.
Other iPhone frustrations, no copy & paste, no windows explorer type app, no document editors, no turn by turn gps (yet).
Hoping i can get rid of the iPhone sharpish to help me banish the horrible memories ;-)
I am an iPhone 3G user now, before that I have always used Windows Mobile, the iPhone makes everything that it can do easy to do. Problem is what it can do compared to Windows Mobile is limited. I miss so many things that I used to have, tethering, copy paste to name just two but most importantly the iPhone is becoming too mainstream for me, I like to be different, I like to have a phone that others don't have and show them things they can't do, I guess that is just the geek in me. For that reason I am buying a Touch HD as soon as it comes out, with a little work I can get it to perform just how I want it too.
Rudegar said:
the gps is onchip on the qualcomm so apart from antenna
and software they would all performe pretty much the same
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With Quallcom there is generally one problem...
Their speed is to low... And then people blame in on Win Mobile
chrissyboy6969 said:
with a little work I can get it to perform just how I want it too.
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Click to collapse
Exactly! You've hit the nail on the head, that is the huge advantage WinMo has over iPhone, you can make it just what you want it. iPhone - you get it...and that's it (except for the wallpaper on the unlock screen ;-)
The only issue with WinMo is it's stone age interface designed for stylus. All shells like Manila and SPB are nice but after a couple of taps you reach the good old WinMo GUI and you have to pull the stylus and bring the magnifying glass.
I want a 6.1 device where WinMo is just a platform, and the GUI is entirely replaced with a touch friendly shell.
But the Touch HD will not do that. It will have the same Frankenstein GUI as all recent WinMo devices, so I will keep my Kaiser until WM7 comes along. (or until android supports desktop sync and turn-by-turn)
Same goes here
chrissyboy6969 said:
I am an iPhone 3G user now, before that I have always used Windows Mobile, the iPhone makes everything that it can do easy to do. Problem is what it can do compared to Windows Mobile is limited. I miss so many things that I used to have, tethering, copy paste to name just two but most importantly the iPhone is becoming too mainstream for me, I like to be different, I like to have a phone that others don't have and show them things they can't do, I guess that is just the geek in me. For that reason I am buying a Touch HD as soon as it comes out, with a little work I can get it to perform just how I want it too.
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Click to collapse
I was a previous Window mobile user too, but switch to iPhone, but for only less than two weeks or so I sold my iphone, iPhone are luck of so many things compare to Window Mobile features. The iPhone is not so bad. but I rather stick with WMobile, which is easy and simple to use..
(or until android supports desktop sync and turn-by-turn)
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Don't think that'll be very long to wait at all, given the open-source nature of the software
I've used iPhone but have settled for the HD. I like the screen of the iPhone although I prefer the screen on the HD.
HTC Touch HD gives me the real feel of pressing a button where in the iPhone you just touch it and you get instant reaction which sometimes isn't what you want.
When I type, I like to keep my fingers on the screen while thinking of the next line (what ever) and when I am ready I can continue to press as normal to type which is superb!
I've used iPhone but have settled for the HD. I like the screen of the iPhone although I prefer the screen on the HD.
HTC Touch HD gives me the real feel of pressing a button where in the iPhone you just touch it and you get instant reaction which sometimes isn't what you want.
When I type, I like to keep my fingers on the screen while thinking of the next line (what ever) and when I am ready I can continue to press as normal to type which is superb!
Holy double posting thread necromancing batman!
You do realize that no one posted in this thread for... 3 months?
Is the HD worth $750 compared to $350 for a device that will do most all the same things? Why?
It seems that s60 software has just about as much as WinMo. I have used winmo since it came out but... And the US version of 8500 will have 3g.
One thing i have learnt is that Nokia don't actually produce good touch screen devices. They are too laggy.
And they aren't even the same thing, so your comparing Oranges and Apples here.
Different screen size, resolution and lower camera resolution.
By the way $350 is a good price since Amazon is selling it for $512.
After buying the HTC and experiencing windows... i will never go back to Symbian.
This is the type of feedback I am interested in. You used symbian before; what is the most dramatic aspect of using WinMo that makes you wish to never go back? What can you do on the HD that you could not do an an 8500?
The resolution is not as high on the 8500 but it is higher than most other devices. Reports are that it is fairly fast.
I ask these questions because I am trying to justify to myself getting the HD.
You have control, you have freedom, you have more options.
You can tweak whatever you want.
Sure you can get the same amount of programs, maybe less for Symbian but the freedom made me stay with Windows.
The Windows platform is sometimes buggy but i think it was well worth the transition from Symbian, and my brothers Symbian crashes sometimes so they all have problems.
Also i wanted to get a PDA to sync information across and use programs that weren't available for any other platform, so why not have a phone built in too.
Also alot of programs i wanted for Film such as PCine and PCam are available for Windows and not Symbian so that was another reason for changing over.
Best thing you can do is write down the main programs you want in regards to GPS etc and go from there.
It took over 2 years to get TomTom working on the N95 GPS reciever, so consider some of the faults you may face on each end.
pdamusthave:
you dont need to push yourself, with pda you can virtually do anything: i am (beside other stuff) using it for administrate my servers using terminal services ANYWHERE. Just check how much software can you get and you have the answer. Symbian cant compete, iphone cant compete, maybe MAYBE someday android will.
I got my first HTC 3.5 years back (blueangel) i am using it for all that time and following this site i am using windows mobile 6.1, the same operating system Touch HD is using, hey I actually had wrote some code and debug it on my workstation on a bus driving to the job. Dont think about those devices like phones rather imagine them as a really small laptop. On the other side, If you are thinking about phones, get a Nokia, you dont need Touch HD.
I have waited faithfully for a long time for Android, but now I have fallen in love with Diamond2...
I am a student, and will mostly need the phone for entertainment purposes. For my use, (mostly internet, skype, taking the occational picture, watching .avi's, mp3, old school games like nes or scummvm), which one would you pick? It's important for me the the phone is fast and responsive, and that it can edit .doc files (word, openoffice, something like that). I also would love for it to have a file-organizer (something like norton commander would have been excellent), ability to run and install files from the phone directly, and the ability to download with it (torrents, etc) and if possible, stream online content. So basically a mini-computer. Which phone do you think is best for me? I do not care about calender, email (e.i outlook) integration, or anything that has to do with planing and\or actual work, in other words
Also:
Do you belive android will get ported to the diamond 2 in the forseeable future?
So to sum up, Should I just go for the Diamond 2 or wait a month or two for the Magic (thats the earliest it will be released here in norway)?
im not an expert at this (ive had no luck with my herald), but if you check around, there are diamond android ports.
most likely, they will be on the diamond2 if they r on the 1st one.
winmo - buisiness/planning/work
android - consumor, but can do buisiness and work
(i can say this because, like i said, i had a herald, and i have the dream)
ur choice buddy ;]
just want to add my opinion. I have had 4 WinMo phones in the past, currently have the Blackstone, which im trying to get rid of. Anyways, I am a "medical" student, who really doesn't use all the features that can be found on a WinMo phone. I have played with a friends G1 and was honestly amazed at how much it just "fit" with me. I know I will probably be bashed for saying this, but phones like the android (G1) and the Iphone are really what I am interested in now. They are simplistic to use, but still can outperform your normal plain old phones. For me, if the G2 Magic doesn't wow me when it hits the U.S. shores in a couple of weeks, than I will probably purchase an Unlocked Iphone. Now, you have to base your decision on what you will use the phone for, especially if you are a student. This is my opinion, but if you are really into business type stuff where you would need all the necessities of a PC than go with the Diamond. If you want a cool, visually appealing phone that isn't as powerful as the Diamond but still gets the job done! than go with the G2.
I agree with redrazr's post above, but I would also like to add that for me a big part of going Android was to be part of something huge, right from the start. I mean, the first Android phone (the G1) has been out less than eight months and Android is already this good? That's pretty damn amazing. WinMo fanboys won't like this, but give Android eight months more and it will blow WinMo out of the water in every single aspect.
And no, WinMo 6.5 (and not even WinMo 7) will not revolutionize WinMo since they're still based on the same old crappy, sluggish platform/core. My understanding is that WinMo 8 will be the first WinMo based on a completely new and/or revamped core, and won't be out until 2013 or so.
mannyb said:
I agree with redrazr's post above, but I would also like to add that for me a big part of going Android was to be part of something huge, right from the start. I mean, the first Android phone (the G1) has been out less than eight months and Android is already this good? That's pretty damn amazing. WinMo fanboys won't like this, but give Android eight months more and it will blow WinMo out of the water in every single aspect.
And no, WinMo 6.5 (and not even WinMo 7) will not revolutionize WinMo since they're still based on the same old crappy, sluggish platform/core. My understanding is that WinMo 8 will be the first WinMo based on a completely new and/or revamped core, and won't be out until 2013 or so.
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He he, I have a D2 and I will not flame you for supporting Android (but then I am not a microsoft fanboy at all, I am typing from ubuntu right now ).
The problem with the smartphones imho is that they still are differentiated using their OS, sometimes even from the carrier customization. Their are more carier network toy than than their are your own toy, while they should be judged on their design, hardware specs and support only imho. Like a PC, where you can install any OS and applications you want, and are even expected to do so.
Thanks to xda-devellopers, HTC phones are closer to what every smartphone should be: an handheld computer with a large array of network connectivity options on which the user (you, that have paid for a device that is now your own, damnit ) can install the OS of his choice.
All that to say that Android should be installable on the TD2, and likely will be installable quite soon. Which is only the absolute minimum to be expected for an open-source OS for which google took A LOT from the opensource community to develop. Android should be installable on any device that has compatible hardware to run it, no excuses (HTC is at fault here, it should halp xda-develloper in the porting effort if not offering multiboot himself from the start, especially as all it's top-of-the-line smartphones are so close to each other hardware-wise).
So once the playfield is levelled and Android is installable on the TD2 (as it is on the HD, even if it is work in progress), I think that the TD2 and Magic should be compared from hardware and design alone. That's why I have chosen the TD2 (I like its design more, and a higher resolution screen is a big plus for me, I read a lot on my smartphone). But for other people the Magic could be better (digital compass, larger battery, more physical inputs like the trackball and additional buttons are its advantages imho)
gkai said:
So once the playfield is levelled and Android is installable on the TD2 (as it is on the HD, even if it is work in progress), I think that the TD2 and Magic should be compared from hardware and design alone. That's why I have chosen the TD2 (I like its design more, and a higher resolution screen is a big plus for me, I read a lot on my smartphone). But for other people the Magic could be better (digital compass, larger battery, more physical inputs like the trackball and additional buttons are its advantages imho)
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Click to collapse
Could not agree more. I'd pick Android over WinMo any day of the week, but let's be honest; WinMo phones have the best hardware. The few Android phones on the market definitely can't hang in that aspect. The only thing I can't stand about WinMo hardware is the resistive touchscreen they're stuck with. WinMo does not support capacitive screens as far as I know.
im going with the magic
i dont really like the look of the diamond 2 and the magics screen is bigger..and plus its going to have a 5mp camera for the US version ..i miss android..i went from the G1 to the Touch HD to the iPhone...touch hd was the worst expierence..windows mobile was dreadful for me...iphone..i dont feel as free with it but the variety of apps is quiet appealing to me especially after you jailbreak it..and android..lacked alot in the beginning but it was awsome i just hated the fact that i have to open the damn keyboard for every little thing i needed to type and i didnt want to wait for cupcake..but magic here i come
So in the last 15 or so months I have had 8 PDA's... 6 of them were WinMo, & Honestly I love WinMo for its versatility & The touchFlo interface is freeking awesome.. But.. I am using a g1 now & The only phone I am looking at other than it is the MyTouch (magic) the day T-Mo releases it (if not sooner).. The android OS has shown me to be much much more intelligently designed & Has yet to have any major issues (I have only had to soft reset the phone 2 or 3 times in the last 2 months).. The App Store is also a huge factor as well.. With free apps that actually work & improve the value of the device.. My last phone before this was a Touch Diamond (unlocked GSM) & I loved it for that beautiful High Res screen & The fact that movies on it were Absolutely Amazing.. Not to mention the small form factor.. But on the other Hand using the Cinema App downloaded for free from the android app store My movie playback looks almost as good (ie 1080i vs 1080p ish) & on a bigger screen.. Also Much less herky jerky to start & stop...
I am super excited for the Magic to come out, but if I had my choice I Would have kept my Diamond & Used Android on it & Somehoe managed to make a MicroSDHC work on it.. That would be my absolute perfect phone.. The Diamond 2 on the other hand I Think only had 1 thing over the diamond & thats the MicroSDHC slot as the increased screen size isnt in my opinion enough to be worth the increased mass.. Its like an inbetween size from the original diamond & an HD & I Dont think thats a necessarry spot to fill..
My 1 And only complaint with the G1 is the bulk & The Magic will obviously resolve that & only a Pocket test will be able to tell if it feels as small & easy to cary/use as the Diamond was..
The port for the diamond 2 will never be complete and always behind the current release of Android.
While the Diamond 2 has a higher resolution screen than the Magic the Magic is capacitive and performs much better in direct sunlight. Android will never run as well on the Diamond 2 as the magic.
macsbac said:
The port for the diamond 2 will never be complete and always behind the current release of Android.
While the Diamond 2 has a higher resolution screen than the Magic the Magic is capacitive and performs much better in direct sunlight. Android will never run as well on the Diamond 2 as the magic.
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Capacitive vs resistive is not so simple an issue: After testing the iTouch, I was all for capacitive, partly because it is more responsive to fingers, but even more because it offer a hard glass screen, much harder and durable than soft plastic resistive screen...
However, after testing the TD2 resistive screen, I must say that reactivity is almost as good as capacitive (not as good, but it is ok for me).
Durability could still be an issue, but the screen seems harder than my previous PDA, and with screen protection + flip case this is not an issue anymore.
BUT with resistive screen I have the possibility to use the stylus, which is very nice for accurate pointing (not relly needed for android, but very usefull for WM) and freehand drawing/ handwriting recognition. this may look like a gadget, but given the number of time I use my PDA as a notepad for quick drawing (abroad, when you do not speak the local language, a picture is worth a dozen words, and a thousand innacurate gesticulations ;-) ).
Capacitive do not allow the use of a stylus (except of the fat-and-soft tip variety, which I consider as completely useless, because it offer no real accuracy improvement), and, for me, this is a significant drawback. If a capacite technology evolve to allow for a pen-like stylus with pinpoint accuracy, then it would definitely burry resistive technology. Not before, especially for asian countries where the ability to draw characters is really useful.
For the direct sunlight, I agree: TD2 is not good under direct sunlight. Barely readable with high contrast large font text, but nothing more. Older PDA were better for this, and I believe you that Magic may be better too. I would be surprised if it was great, though, besides e-ink or passive LCD (reflective technologies), no screen has ever been great under direct sunlight ;-)
And for Android not running as well on the TD2 than on the Magic, yes, but the difference should be minimal: the hardware is almost the same, and Android is opensource, so the porting, once the bootloader/HARDSpl is done, should be quite straightforward...
I have owned winmo phones, played with an icrap, and now own a g1, and I will say I'd never ever go back. Android is always improving and will never stop improving. We have a few great developers that are always making this o.s. better. If you are looking for a phone for hardware, wait till one come out with Android. Otherwise get a magic. From what it seems like from your post, you'd be happier with android and the "wow" factor.
You don't have to read this, you can just vote.
Ok, we have all heard about OS 3.0.
Faster, multi - tasking, A2DP, other bluetooth improvements such as file transfer, MMS, video capture, onboard video editing software included, etc..
The new iPhone to be released end of June is also going to have a few hardware changes. Have heard that it is 16 to 32 gb, that there is a 5mp autofocus camera with a quality lens on back, and a 3mp on the front (compared to our VGA), thinner (of course, pretty much a guarantee), possible bigger and sharper screen, etc...
It seems to me as if Apple has really (unlike MS) done what a company should...analyze the competition (primarily Android but also webOS and RIM), and redesign and improve their product accordingly. They have gotten rid of pretty muh all of the stupid annoyances, made it faster and smaller, and given developers much more access to different system level things for their apps, along with about a million other changes and improvements that you can and probably have read about. I am also really thinking that they will have good integration with things such as facebook, gmail, and outlook.
I really think there will be no question and that it truly will be the #1 device really without any competition. The only competition I can see is maybe something such as the HTC Magic that is thinner, has a larger, higher res screen, and comes stock with unbranded Android 1.5 (such as some of the HTC line up we have seen).
I just DESPERATELY hope that Apple isn't so stupid and naiive as to not put on MORE BUTTONS! Buttons are always better...always having to quit what you're doing and go back to the home screen to do ANYTHING would drive me insane...I love texting on my HD, then pulling up the phone and calling someone, sticking it on speaker, then going back to texting...that's not too much to ask I don't think.
So vote!
As for what I'm doing. I am jumping ship to the new iPhone. If I find it doesn't satisfy me, I will sell it and get the best Android handset I can find. Hopefully something like the Magic, but thinner, having a bigger, more high res screen, and comes stock with unbranded Android 1.5. If no new non - keyboard Anroid handsets are out by that time...Magic it is! (if it is ever released)
im gonna have to see the official specs and the actual device before i decide anything,if what is mentioned is true then perhaps. but im looking more at the Palm Pre than the iPhone, we will see
Ok, firstly MS is doing something about it, they are working on two new OSs at the moment, secondly its not MS that makes the phone, this is the problem and the holy grail with WM phones, firstly its a problem because MS has no say what hardware is used with its OS, this means like its desktop cousin it needs to support many things well and i believe to an extent it achieves this, but it doesnt excel at any of them. Its the holy grail because with the Iphone, you get 1 phone, 1 set of gear, 1 design for every possible usage, with WM devices you get exactly what you want because you have the choice to choose different phones, different specs and design for your needs.
Im leaving out Android here for 1 reason, it sucks, no no hear me out, apple has a HUGH following with its iPods which translate in to potential iPhone sales, android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good but its an alternative to the evil of Microsoft and ties of Apple which makes then appeal to others and thats fair enough, its a market as good as any.
But here is the reason ill be sticking with my Microsoft Windows Mobile based PDA, it works, it works fairly quick, it looks as good as an iPhone and i can install pretty much anything i want on it. Weres Tomtom for android or the Iphone? where is memory Map? where is the ease of use when syncing with Outlook? wheres Igo8? core player? world card mobile? the various language programs? all my security and tracking programs, the million and 1 apps available on the net, free or paid that have a propper support base if it all goes wrong, data retrivel?
some of those i use every day, i use many others every day, and yes there may be alternatives for some, but unless i can get them ALL working on one of the other two devices ill not change because i need them all and thats as simple as it gets.
With a desktop OS you can dual boot or virtual PC it, an thats fine if thats your thng, but you cant do that at the moment on the PDA and even if you could i doubt i would because its a hassle i can do without, WM works and works well enough and im sure its only going to get better.
And what will be the screen resolution of new iPhone?
Current iPhone is a no go for me - with such low screen resolution reading eBooks and surfing the internet is really, really bad.
Waiting eagerly for the new iPhone so definitely jumping ship...
I've got a Mac and syncing is nearly impossible. I've tried all sort of apps but none worked perfectly. I really need to sync address book and calendar and I've had enough of transferring mp3 files one by one, artwork not working etc etc.
the mp3 function is very important for me and the iPhone is perfect for that.
only problem I've got is I don't like the iPhone's current design. It's so 2 years ago. Hopefully they'll come up with a nice sleek design.
Why are Windows Mobile Apps falling behind IPhone ones?
One of the things that has always interest me when making such a decision is: What do developers think? How do they view developing for iPhone versus for winmo platform?
To gain insight into the thinking of developers, including some rather big names in winmo application development, you guys might want to read these extremely interesting threads:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html
and
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6481405#post6481405
dazza9075 said:
Ok, firstly MS is doing something about it, they are working on two new OSs at the moment, secondly its not MS that makes the phone, this is the problem and the holy grail with WM phones, firstly its a problem because MS has no say what hardware is used with its OS, this means like its desktop cousin it needs to support many things well and i believe to an extent it achieves this, but it doesnt excel at any of them. Its the holy grail because with the Iphone, you get 1 phone, 1 set of gear, 1 design for every possible usage, with WM devices you get exactly what you want because you have the choice to choose different phones, different specs and design for your needs.
Im leaving out Android here for 1 reason, it sucks, no no hear me out, apple has a HUGH following with its iPods which translate in to potential iPhone sales, android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good but its an alternative to the evil of Microsoft and ties of Apple which makes then appeal to others and thats fair enough, its a market as good as any.
But here is the reason ill be sticking with my Microsoft Windows Mobile based PDA, it works, it works fairly quick, it looks as good as an iPhone and i can install pretty much anything i want on it. Weres Tomtom for android or the Iphone? where is memory Map? where is the ease of use when syncing with Outlook? wheres Igo8? core player? world card mobile? the various language programs? all my security and tracking programs, the million and 1 apps available on the net, free or paid that have a propper support base if it all goes wrong, data retrivel?
some of those i use every day, i use many others every day, and yes there may be alternatives for some, but unless i can get them ALL working on one of the other two devices ill not change because i need them all and thats as simple as it gets.
With a desktop OS you can dual boot or virtual PC it, an thats fine if thats your thng, but you cant do that at the moment on the PDA and even if you could i doubt i would because its a hassle i can do without, WM works and works well enough and im sure its only going to get better.
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1. We all know MS is doing something about it. But we also all know that virtually all MS products suck. We also all know that MS is SLOOOW...therefore (like I said), by the time winmo 7 is released, it will already be behind. It will be released around 3rd quarter 2010...that's ridiculous. Another year from now Android will no longer be so new, and Apple will have put out something entirely new as they know ppl will be getting tired of iPhone by then. Not to mention what RIM and Nokia will be doing.
2. Where is the basis that Android sucks? It is faster than WM, that much is for sure. It is also more customizable. It is more modern. 3rd party app support does not make an OS good or bad....your argument that they suck cuz they don't have apps is no good to me. Sure it can make or break the success of the OS but...that's got nothing to do with the OS itself. Android has a LOT on WM and WM has...virtually nothing on Android. It looks ancient, it runs ancient, and it's that simple. I think we can all agree on that last line there.
3. "android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good"
- Gotta admit that you really lost me there.
4. Windows Mobile is in fact rather slow, even on good hardware with good drivers.
5. Windows Mobile crashes all the time even fresh after a hard reset, no apps installed, on an official ROM (just like the desktop Windows!)
6. iPhone has better syncing solutions that ActiveSync and Outlook.
7. Just FYI to all reading this...I am a Windows user and have been for years (all my life). I am not an outsider looking in and criticizing Windows w/o due reason and experience. I recently installed OSX86 on my PC however and...it truly is really nice. MS sucks. Bottom line, and there is really no avoiding it.
8. All OS's have pro's and cons. There are just as many if not more arguments against all your arguments for Windows Mobile. My point is simply that the new iPhone truly is a lot better than any Windows Mobile device running the latest WM 6.5.
MrYdude said:
And what will be the screen resolution of new iPhone?
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No kidding. Couldn't agree more. Coming from a Touch HD and having looked at a lot of friends iPhones...their screens look terrible when reading text (altho they do have 16 million colors compared to our 65,000. Side note: Android also has 16 million colors).
Sadly though I have read that they plan not to change the resolution in order to keep all apps usable. I reallly hope not.
It's true, MS does not have any influence on the phone hardware.
However, an operating system's success is not about hardware potential or software potential or about a combination of both: it's about a tangible offer of potentially attractive software which can be easily obtained via a single entry point, i.e. an APP STORE. That's currently the BIGGEST drawback of the WM platform. I love the customization part of WM but it took me ages to get there. Many users won't take that road and therefore go for the iphone.
There's also a lock-in effect to this -> More users to an OS platform means that developing for that platform gets attractive, thus attracting developers and making the apps offer even more powerful. That in turn increases the chances of attracting new users to the platform, etc.
Honestly, considering all this, do you really a 50 megapixel camera or a nVidia Geforce 8800 GTX in your phone ?? What about all the already hidden potential in your phones which never gets explored because developers and users do not get a realistic chance to discover all of its limitations ?
I'm pretty sure that the new iPhone does not support multi-tasking, you're still stuck to doing one thing at a time. I believe Apples official unofficial stand on it is that they spent way too much time and money on their failed push notifications, and they're not going to allow multi-tasking. (Apple does not like to say it's wrong...and if they would release multi-tasking, I'm sure they'll call it something else, and put a patent on it for no reason).
You know what...
I just love the WM and WM based devices.
They have ALL i need
They are fully customizable and have fully multitasking support.
With iPhone, you will get what it is, and you will get stucked with iTunes and online store
Many iPhone apps (though looks amazing) are not so usable
I just need functionality much more then a great user interface
Peace all
Well i won't go for the Iphone i have my HD and i'm stuck on it to change something that good you need to buy something "special" and from the looks of it the new Iphone will be a bit better than the last one so why do i give a great amount of money to switch to something "a bit" better.Let's see Palm Pre and other Android devices now the market will be devided not only for WM an Iphone but Android and Palm OS also so i won't hurry to go for the new stuff as you can never know which one is better until you try them for at lesat 4-6 months maybe even more....so let's wait and see "newer" is not the same as "better" .
andes83 said:
Well i won't go for the Iphone i have my HD and i'm stuck on it to change something that good you need to buy something "special" and from the looks of it the new Iphone will be a bit better than the last one so why do i give a great amount of money to switch to something "a bit" better.Let's see Palm Pre and other Android devices now the market will be devided not only for WM an Iphone but Android and Palm OS also so i won't hurry to go for the new stuff as you can never know which one is better until you try them for at lesat 4-6 months maybe even more....so let's wait and see "newer" is not the same as "better" .
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I really think it is going to be more than "a bit better".
As you saw there are hundreds of features and fixes in the new OS, plus new hardware changes such has considerably better CPU, double the RAM, better camera, thinner etc..
iori said:
You know what...
I just love the WM and WM based devices.
They have ALL i need
They are fully customizable and have fully multitasking support.
With iPhone, you will get what it is, and you will get stucked with iTunes and online store
Many iPhone apps (though looks amazing) are not so usable
I just need functionality much more then a great user interface
Peace all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iori,
There are lots of misconceptions about iPhone, so I don't blame you for having incomplete or wrong information.
iPhone is extremley customizable too, and you too can have multitasking once jailbroken. Therefore, you do not get what it is - you get what you want it to be. You don't get stucked with iTunes and online store. You get the benefit but you can also get things outside iTune and online store.
Whoever gives you the idea that the iPhone aplls are not useable does not know what he is talking about. When app store was first available, many low quality applications did get listed. Not anymore. Whether you're an advanced IT network adminstrator, sales executives, finance director, web site marketer, shipping agent, there are really nice applications for you. Trust me on this one. Don't just anyhow believe people who tells you that iPhone is just a toy and winmo is for corporate use. iPhone can be as corporate as you want it to be.
Cheers.
Anyway, iPhone is still quite poor on the GPS domain.
6 or 7 apps (park lane, radar, around me, traffic, etc) to do all that my iGO can natively do... and still no turn-by-turn soft buyable on the iPhone.
I want a real all in one, and neither the actual iPhone or the next one won't be a real one. My friends who own an iphone have all get a specific GPS, and well, everything's said...
Roupette said:
Anyway, iPhone is still quite poor on the GPS domain.
6 or 7 apps (park lane, radar, around me, traffic, etc) to do all that my iGO can natively do... and still no turn-by-turn soft buyable on the iPhone.
I want a real all in one, and neither the actual iPhone or the next one won't be a real one. My friends who own an iphone have all get a specific GPS, and well, everything's said...
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Yes, that's tue still. If you're in US, there is an application called G-Map, which on the surface looks quite decent, but nothing outside US yet. However, this is expected to change with Firmware 3.0. The reason why there was none in the past was because Apple did not allow any such application, thanks to their stupid policy. Respectable company like Tom Tom would of course refuse to release it into the "underground" cydia store. With the policy change by Apple, TomTom is expected there soon.
I'm all for having everything in one device too, and GPS has been a sore point for me. The other sore point is the fixed battery, but that I can accept because iPHone's battery life is not bad.
1, im sorry but your statment about everything MS produces are rubbish, is in fact rubbish, i cant comment what you do with your PC / Mobile but i rarely have system crashes, on my mobile i cant even remember the last time i was forced to do a hard reset, on my desktop im using one of the most stable OSs ive ever used and its BETA! I do agree it takes them time to produce the software and i do agree that in the past SOME of their projects are flakey but not all.
"2. Where is the basis that Android sucks?"
You miss the point of an OS here, if nothing good works on an OS NO ONE will use it, its that simple, If i cant use the programs i need then that OS is useless to me, it may have a place in the linux following groups who challenge everything MS and claim to be better than everything else but in the real world if i cant use what i want to use its useless. MS also has a massive software base including various distribution sites, some free some not, everything is cated for. Android looks no better than my WM device with Touch flo, its no quicker, i know this because i have both of them sitting in front of me.
Because something is more modern doesnt make it good, take the Pentium 4 over Pentium 3 as an example. but i agree android IS more customizable
"Android has a LOT on WM and WM has...virtually nothing on Android"
Really? a LOT is a big statement that i bet you cant quantify with factual information and not hand back subjective reviews and "feelings" about things.
"It looks ancient,"
The core OS does yes, but tell me, is android not a Shell over a command line? i believe it is, So technically the core OS on android looks crap too but thats just nit picking!
"it runs ancient"
that makes no sence, only and new programs work on it fine, quick and responsive so what makes an OS ancient?
3. "android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good"
- Gotta admit that you really lost me there.
Ah yes i was refering to Linux and its intresting cult of followers but i retract that statement as it was below the belt.
"4. Windows Mobile is in fact rather slow, even on good hardware with good drivers."
nope, it isnt to me, graphics wise its slow compared to hardware excelerated devices, whats bizzar is that the phone can still pump out ok graphics on its CPU and still multi task, if qualcomm released graphics drivers for many of the 7xxx based chipsets i think you will find a near perfect device. but even without that it works....just!
"5. Windows Mobile crashes all the time even fresh after a hard reset, no apps installed, on an official ROM (just like the desktop Windows!)"
I really cant comment, since WM2002 ive not had that on a multitude of different devices. and Windows doesnt do that either, perhaps the common denominator here is the user.
"6. iPhone has better syncing solutions that ActiveSync and Outlook."
quantify please?
"7. Just FYI to all reading this...I am a Windows user and have been for years (all my life). I am not an outsider looking in and criticizing Windows w/o due reason and experience. I recently installed OSX86 on my PC however and...it truly is really nice"
I too have used Linux, OSX and all the different versions of Windows and they have there places i do agree that in different markets different OS's suit different people. but tell me which one of those is the best for all markets all be it perhaps not as good as the other OS's designed for those markets?
"MS sucks. "
you lose all credibility with that statment attact a spacific product if you choose but to say Apple sucks or MS sucks is crazy and wrong.
"Bottom line, and there is really no avoiding it.
8. All OS's have pro's and cons. There are just as many if not more arguments against all your arguments for Windows Mobile. My point is simply that the new iPhone truly is a lot better than any Windows Mobile device running the latest WM 6.5."
You started off well there, but lost it at the end, PROVE to me that the new OS is better on the Iphone? without using speculation and subjective views an opinions.
I believe MS will be increasing the colour depth on the new devices but i doubt it will make any significate difference, except in its speed. what the WM based devices need is some new tech that uses resistive screens without the 70% (about that) loss of light, that in turn would increase battery life. Dont say capacitive screens, a stylus can be very useful, but definitely a combination of the two somehow.
there are 3 killers for me with the iphone
1. no gps (it has a chip but nothing other than gimmickey apps for it)
2. resolution too small
3. no multi tasking - if I can't listen to mp3's while driving on my bluetooth stereo whilst having TomTom tell me where to go its no good.
Now we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with TomTom but unless they sort the other 2 issues I wont even be looking at it, let alone ditching my beloved HD.
lancemate said:
there are 3 killers for me with the iphone
1. no gps (it has a chip but nothing other than gimmickey apps for it)
2. resolution too small
3. no multi tasking - if I can't listen to mp3's while driving on my bluetooth stereo whilst having TomTom tell me where to go its no good.
Now we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with TomTom but unless they sort the other 2 issues I wont even be looking at it, let alone ditching my beloved HD.
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Hi Lancemate,
How do we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with Tom Tom? I must have missed that information somewhere.
I'm too disappointed with Steve Jobs for not providing multitasking. So, looks like we still have to jailbreak to get that.
HD's resolution is very nice. No doubt about it. Although vast majority of the applications (phone, weather, music player for example) would not really miss this. Web surfing is in my mind a leading exception, as it would be nice to be able to clearly read the font without zooming in. It is for me a compromise, although an acceptable one for myself. I guess one has to take everything into account (multitouch vs resistive, number of applications available, speed, smoothness, stability, user interface, etc) and decide for oneself if such a compromise is worth it.
its all over the internet mate and has been for a while
example
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._0_app_highlights_tomtom_gps_line_6_more.html
lancemate said:
its all over the internet mate and has been for a while
example
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._0_app_highlights_tomtom_gps_line_6_more.html
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I'm aware Tom Tom and Navigon will be available, but as separate purchase rather than being shipped with the phone. Guess I misunderstood what you said. Thanks anyway.
Okay here I am setting myself up to be flamed - you see I don't understand what the beef is with Windows Mobile 6.5? I know it is a bit of a gloss job and that there is room for improvement but what is so intrinsically wrong with it that so many people are screaming about it...is it so unusable, or unstable - I know it is not the Apple OS and that I have to say may have its upsides. But what is the big problem.
So go for it shout at me - call me ignorant - but if you can enlighten me please do.
I am about to get an HD2 and am looking forward to the whole experience.
Scott
It looks kinda ugly (not fingerfriendly, no animations), misses APIs for the hardware in modern devices and the UI controls provided by Visual studio are ugly as well, making software development for WM sometimes difficult.
That's it. The list of good things about WM is a lot longer.
All in all, there's nothing wrong with WM except for its reputation in the blogosphere.
It has its pros and cons like every other phone OS. None of them is perfect and iPhone OS or Android are not better than WM at all. They're just different, less powerful but easier to use.
freyberry said:
It looks kinda ugly (not fingerfriendly, no animations), misses APIs for the hardware in modern devices and the UI controls provided by Visual studio are ugly as well, making software development for WM sometimes difficult.
That's it. The list of good things about WM is a lot longer.
All in all, there's nothing wrong with WM except for its reputation in the blogosphere.
It has its pros and cons like every other phone OS. None of them is perfect and iPhone OS or Android are not better than WM at all. They're just different, less powerful but easier to use.
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and alot more popular. iPhone has the famous app store, with about 1000 quality games and 5000 quality apps.
I had no difficulties finding equivalents for every application when I switched away from the iPhone. WM has 30.000 applications as well.
But popularity is a problem.
I for one am so bored of the apple lovers saying get an Iphone over the hd2. If you want an iphone just get one, its a decent phone if thats what you want. WM6.5 isnt the most finger friendly OS but i think the big/only limitation for the hd2 is the fact it doesnt support our hardware very well in the kernel (which hasnt been updated since WM5 really), so to that end our device is only as slick as it is due to the massive overspec of the processor.
Yes WM7 will be better, but its certainly not a reason to wait and not buy a HD2. This forum has hundreds of threads in the leo section talking about iphone this and that, and frankly i am pretty sure i am not the only one sick of it.
I for one think WM6.5 on the HD2 is more than a decent OS, yes i dont interact with it directly that often but if i need to then i can at least get to the guts easily (file explorer/reg edit etc) which is way more difficult on other mobile platforms.
It isnt perfect but certianly isnt worth all of the chat thats going around atm.
I don't want an iphone and too am tired of the iphone zealots - I have been following the Leo since it was leaked it is the phone for me I just wanted to know what the big beef with WM 6.5 is.
I am currently using a BlackBerry Bold and it is a nice device but feel so limited beyond texting and emailing. But the HD2 that is a whole new ballgame.
Thanks for the feedback - I am looking forward to getting the phone in February.
Scott
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with 6.5 except its lack of finger friendlyness, which depending on what you use the phone for could be a positive or a negative. Its biggest drawback is the poor quality of the original phones gave it a bad press which certain tech websites have never let go.
Personally I have had WM phones since the Wizard and have used a number of different ones since. I also have a Hero and found Android very good but ultimately not as usable as WM6.1 or WM6.5. My current phone is a HD2 which beats the the Hero and the iPhone at virtually every everyday task it has been given. (even the Hero stood up very well against the iPhone).
As for apps, yet again the media seem to think the only way to get an app on your phone is through an app store - carefully ignoring the fact that WM has had apps since day 1, just not all available from one place.
borgqueenx said:
and alot more popular. iPhone has the famous app store, with about 1000 quality games and 5000 quality apps.
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FPMSL!!!!!!
Well, there might really be 6000 quality apps among those 110000.
That's 5.5%. If 20% of all WM applications are quality ones, then there's already more quality applications for WM than for the iPhone. Especially if you add PSX games that all work great on WM now
Don't take this too serious, I'm just having a bit of fun. There's lots of good applications for the iPhone, but I never missed anything when I switched (back) to WM.
While I have all of you to talk to - what is the best registry editor to get for my HD2? I also want to look at a task manager as well...
Any feedback much appreciated.
Scott
freyberry said:
Well, there might really be 6000 quality apps among those 110000.
That's 5.5%. If 20% of all WM applications are quality ones, then there's already more quality applications for WM than for the iPhone. Especially if you add PSX games that all work great on WM now
Don't take this too serious, I'm just having a bit of fun. There's lots of good applications for the iPhone, but I never missed anything when I switched (back) to WM.
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One thing I can not get about Iphone apps is fact they take normal app and call it something new and wonderful.
There is this app for iphone that splits the restaurant bill on to as many people as you want.
I thin on all other phones it is called a calculator and it can do so much more as well as is free.
Another example of stupid paid app is Ducati history app. Why pay I think £2.99 for it (BTW it still only works if you are online) when you can get the same at Ducati.com. Only reason I can think off is because Ducati site is flash based?!
UberScooter said:
While I have all of you to talk to - what is the best registry editor to get for my HD2? I also want to look at a task manager as well...
Any feedback much appreciated.
Scott
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Get resco explorer with regedit plugin. However I think full one you have to pay. For a free app there is PHM Registry editor:
http://freewareppc.com/utilities/phmregistryeditor.shtml
to edit registry of your winmo device via your laptop you will need active sync and CeRegeditor by mdSoft. It allows you to export keys you want and convert them in to cab installs so if you need to hard reset it is just click and go for all your registry tweaks.