Database Users

Lets be FAIR , is HD really 'bestphoneever' or its just about 3.8" display?

hi everyone,
I'm a Die Hard fan of Blackstone/Touch HD , and im waiting for it for a long time !
but after reading about it, watching movies, following discussions, I feel its nothing but a HUGE and tempting display .
we're all WM users and we didnt experienced any large-display phones with such size, and thats why we're trying to believe this is BEST !
since theres no TV-OUT capability , hard one handed usage , no D-PAD ( C'mon , its not iphone that fingers could do anything with any pressure ) and weird camera lens box!
is it really we wanted or its just another "I WANT TO BELIEVE?"

I do see where you're coming from... To me, I'll be honest, it's the Diamond in a REALLY nice case. One that's familiar to a long-term Elf user. The touchy-feely case, no desire to use the D-Pad... But when all's said and done: It's a huge display and has a 5MP camera. It's the best ever HTC, but it will be easy to top...
Now I feel bad... Thanks...

Hi,
Interesting point of view. ... and I agree most of it.
To be honest, the only thing I am interested in Touch HD is the huge 3.8" screen.
I like browsing the internet using Opera Mini (and Opera 9 of course) and I have no problem with my current HTC Kaiser.
However, I always envy with phone that has big screen, 3.5" like my friend's iPhone.
So, thats my sole reason to think about buying Touch HD.
However, I am holding back because there are couple of things that I need to convince myself:
1. TouchFlo 3D cannot show multiple appointments/tasks in its today screen.
This is rubish, I cannot understand why HTC does not implement this like the old HTC Home. And I have not found better solution for this.
Of course I can turn off TF3D (can I?) and use HTC Home or SpB Mobile Shell.
But ................ why???
2. No DPAD, can I live with it? Probably ...
But I have a dream to have a GAME DEVICE and PDA all in one.
I cannot do that with HTC Kaiser because of the graphics driver and bad performance. Really, I hate it.
3.8" is very nice for a game device. However, without DPAD, the game will be limited.
If I look the current Touch HD design, a DPAD is still possible in the center of those 4 buttons!
I know, I can buy Nintendo DS or PSP, but hey! I dont like carrying a lot of devices
5 MP camera is nothing ... the quality is still doubtful.
No TV-OUT like Raphael? Grrr!!!
Well, this is my personal opinion.
I dont know, probably I will buy it anyway ... or wait until I can hold and see it in real live ... and judge if the 3.8" screen is enough to convince myself to buy.

upcomming phones have almost same display size ( like ASUS Galaxy 7 ) and solved problems ...
but i want it from HTC .

I think it's yet another half-a***d swipe at the iPhone, without any real thought put into it. WM fans want to believe this is "the one" that's going to give them everything they (perhaps secretly) really like about the iPhone, while still wearing the Windows Mobile badge. In reality, it's just another WM phone with a bigger screen, and actually a few disadvantages over some other models (like that lack of a D-pad). In spite of the screen I really doubt the multimedia will be as slick as the iPhone, and for gaming it's a dead duck - unlike the iPhone where the appstore is brimming full of immersive games built around the iPhone's acceleromotor and multi-touch screen, the Touch HD only has the WM back catalogue to choose from, 99% of which will be written to run on non-accelerometor equipped phones with D-pads.
Meanwhile, underneath the Touchflo you still have an interface designed for a stylus, however big the display.

gogol said:
....1. TouchFlo 3D cannot show multiple appointments/tasks in its today screen.....
This is rubish, I cannot understand why HTC does not implement this like the old HTC Home. And I have not found better solution for this.
Of course I can turn off TF3D (can I?) and use HTC Home or SpB Mobile Shell.
But ................ why???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Get your act together HTC

I still cannot decide which model to choose - X1 or HD - and now I am thinking more and more of getting an X1. I simply understand that the only thing about HD that I am going to really love and cream-my-pants because of is the 3.8" screen.
I think that HD is a perfect device for non-WM-addicts, for people who will use just TF3D-interface and Opera at most, without installing any tweaks/programs/registry-hacks/emulators/debuggers/consoles/younameit. Cause when you want to install one of them, you're in trouble - no hardware keys, no D-pad... Achtung!
One more thing I thought about.. Every phone has a kind of a "secret combination of keys", e g "turn-on-the-phone-holding-two-buttons-pressed-and-enter-diagnostics-mode". I wonder if the sensor buttons would do that?

If I am going to express my opinion I will rather say I am going for the large screen size to be honest, Window mobile did not change since, its still WM 6.1 and not much difference on software, yes is the look of the phone that impress me and the size of the screen, because I personally enjoy watching movies on move.

How can HTC put such a cheap, crappy-looking clock onto such a "high-end" device?
The analogue clock from the TF2D (as per the Touch 3G) just looks so much better.
I also agree with the comments about the Appointments - this is a very important point for me, and if not easily resolvable will make me look eleswhere.
So do I remove the TF3D and use Spb instead? If I were to do that, would I then lose the scrollability of the unit - is the finger-scrolling part of TF3D or part of WM6.1?
From a non techie user point-of-view, the more I am finding out about this, the less excited I am about it. Having just read through the manual, I realise it doesn't do any more than any other WM 6.1 pda, except for the bigger screen. And even the quality of films on that seems to be in question!
Maybe I should stop reading sites such as this - lol.

Look we all love the design factor, large screen, hi res etc. That makes it the best win mo phone. Don't let these posts turn you off. You fell in love with the phone for a reason. As for the minor problems (2 appointments etc), well... where there's a will there's a way... xda-developers. Just give them time to work their magic.
Anyway there is always Second Today to see appointents http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O2MYv5ooIp0

Nothing...........
I just Ordered mine from pdashop.nl 1 minute ago... And i don't need any negation right now. for 629 Euro. ....It better impress
Nothing is gonna take that joy from me..

You can fall in love with a phone for the wrong reasons! I really do think expectations are too high for this device, and people are right to question and rethink this now, before they've paid their money... IMO it's a flawed design, WinMo needs some kind of d-pad, it's not finger friendly enough even on this size screen to get by without it. If losing the hardware controls is a necessity of that larger screen, then they need to replace the UI completely, and use some other OS.

...
Are you guys serious?
Let's see the complaints that make this device "just another WM phone."
1. TV-OUT Capability
Why do I need this? WHEN will I need this? If I am at home, I will use my laptop to connect my HDTV via HDMI. Using a phone at home for it's TV-Out capability is well, useless. If you can afford this device, and are tech-savvy enough to know about it, then odds are you have an HDMI capable computer and TV.
The ONLY scenario where I could see this feature be useful is if I wanted to output video on a random TV, maybe at a bar:
"Hey bartender, hook up my HTC TOUCH HD to the TV please."
LOL
Come on!
2. Hard one handed usage? This coming from people who love QWERTY keyboards. I find this hilarious. What's so hard about it? Move your thumb around and you're good to go.
3. OMG! Weird camera lens box!! WTF is weird about it? Now, if you want to tell me no flash, alright I can agree with that. But to nag about the camera lens box? I think it looks good. I mean, I honestly don't care what it looks like as long as it's not pink with rainbows.
What are some other complaints?
No directional pad. Well, you have a 3.8in TOUCH screen and you want a d-pad? Is this a joke? If you want a d-pad, don't buy a TOUCH screen.
No games. Who plays games on their phone? Seriously. If you want to play games, go and buy a PSP or DS.
Home screen only shows a couple of appointments. This is a SLIGHT issue, but something tells me it will be fixed in no time by the heads roaming these forums.
-------------------------------------------------------
Now, let's compare these issues with the iPhone, since there were about 101 insinuations that we are desperate WM fan boys.
No TV-out:
iPhone doesn't have TV out either. OOOOOOOO.
Weird camera lens box:
iPhone has a useless 2megapixel camera without recording or focus features.
One handed usage:
Anyone notice that you have to slide SIDEWAYS just to unlock the iPhone? Explain to me how you are going to do that with ONE hand. At least HTC had the foresight to allow you to use the phone primarily with your thumb with up and down gestures.
The HTC Touch HD is NOT like any other WM phone or ANY phone for that matter. It's sensitivity is far superior, beautiful screen, FAST, and can do anything you can throw at it besides useless things such as outputting video at a bar.
Oh, and please don't get me started on the lack of iPhone features. How about the ability to CUT and PASTE? Want to talk to me about the iPhone marketplace? There are programmers all over the net with custom programs for WM that allows us to do basically ANYTHING, even emulate the iPhone.
Give me a break. This is a GREAT device and as far as I can tell, the only thing missing is flash.
And if you want to really be douche about it, most phones nowadays have a phone, video/music player, and a camera! So I guess we should all just get ourselves a Nokia 7610 and cluck.

So, could I use Second Today to run something like the Spb Today screen (because I am used to and love its flexible Appointments display), or am I mixing up technologies?
And just how safe /easy is it for a non-techie to install Second Today, and to change the button functions (and does this require a registry change, because now I'm starting to talk a new language?)

And, whilst I'm in a writing mood, the other issues raised were video playback quality, and suspected lag in GPS navigation.
Can anyone confirm the current situation with these. Is the playback quality acceptable without dropped frames, and has it been absolutely confirmed by a real test that there is no GPS lag?

Boinng said:
I think it's yet another half-a***d swipe at the iPhone, without any real thought put into it. WM fans want to believe this is "the one" that's going to give them everything they (perhaps secretly) really like about the iPhone, while still wearing the Windows Mobile badge. In reality, it's just another WM phone with a bigger screen, and actually a few disadvantages over some other models (like that lack of a D-pad). In spite of the screen I really doubt the multimedia will be as slick as the iPhone, and for gaming it's a dead duck - unlike the iPhone where the appstore is brimming full of immersive games built around the iPhone's acceleromotor and multi-touch screen, the Touch HD only has the WM back catalogue to choose from, 99% of which will be written to run on non-accelerometor equipped phones with D-pads.
Meanwhile, underneath the Touchflo you still have an interface designed for a stylus, however big the display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha opinions from Apple Fan Boys dont count. All opinions on gaming (based on nothing), no dpad (which i love), Poor multimedia (not from the videos ive seen), App store stinks because hacked apps for iphone way better and FREE,
I owned an Iphone for a month and couldnt get rid of it fast enough because WM offers so much more functionality for business and "hackability"

dont get wrong ! iphone is NO WAY competitor, its just a fancy phone! not more not less !
im going to buy this beast, but i really want to know is this really a big deal ?
i dont think so !
but we all know the form factor and the screen size is undeniable ! thats why im going for HD .

nu_D said:
...
1. TV-OUT Capability
Why do I need this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you are on holiday? At the hotel, in a country where you dont understand local language ... you end up with CNN
So, TV-Out is nice to have! Hook it up to the hotel TV and play movie from your PDA.
Why some users complained about this TV-Out? Because the "previous" device has that, HTC Raphael. Why dont they include it in the next iteration?
Of course, probably there are some other reasons, like PRICE etc. But I see this TV-Out as a valid point.
nu_D said:
2. Hard one handed usage? This coming from people who love QWERTY keyboards. I find this hilarious. What's so hard about it? Move your thumb around and you're good to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not always like that. The OS (WinMo 6.1) is not specifically designed for touch screen only.
People like me, prefer to use DPAD to move around the UI, much faster, efficient and less-thumb-hurt
You may disagree, but thats you!
nu_D said:
No games. Who plays games on their phone? Seriously. If you want to play games, go and buy a PSP or DS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Woohoo ... Gaming is also part of the mobile world.
If you dont play game in your PDA, then (again) it's your choice.
You should not dictate that, because the mobile gaming market is THERE.
nu_D said:
Want to talk to me about the iPhone marketplace? There are programmers all over the net with custom programs for WM that allows us to do basically ANYTHING, even emulate the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Righty ... Please dont compare iPhone apps with WinMo apps
nu_D said:
Give me a break. This is a GREAT device and as far as I can tell, the only thing missing is flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is a great device. But how great is this? Depends ...

manuelcalavera said:
dont get wrong ! iphone is NO WAY competitor, its just a fancy phone! not more not less !
im going to buy this beast, but i really want to know is this really a big deal ?
i dont think so !
but we all know the form factor and the screen size is undeniable ! thats why im going for HD .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and my apologies for not answer the question lol. Is it a big deal, nah, not when you look at all the other technology worldwide as a whole. Its nice but there is really no "phone" that is a big deal in my humble opinion.

nu_D said:
...
Now, let's compare these issues with the iPhone, since there were about 101 insinuations that we are desperate WM fan boys.
No TV-out:
iPhone doesn't have TV out either. OOOOOOOO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes, it does. Bad start.
Weird camera lens box:
iPhone has a useless 2megapixel camera without recording or focus features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. For the record, I have no idea why anyone's complaining about the "weird camera lens box" on the HD. It's just a lens.
The iPhone's camera is just a camera, and makes no pretence to be anything more - if you want a better camera, buy one (or a different phone).
One handed usage:
Anyone notice that you have to slide SIDEWAYS just to unlock the iPhone? Explain to me how you are going to do that with ONE hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easily and quickly about a million times a day. Seriously, you're just demonstrating you've never been near one, and are desperately trying to think up things which might be wrong with it, on the strength of a few screenshots you've seen. The "slide to unlock/answer" is an excellent feature that's completely natural to use one handed - it works so well that even HTC have tried to imitate it with a similar "slide to answer" feature on the, ahem, Touch HD.
At least HTC had the foresight to allow you to use the phone primarily with your thumb with up and down gestures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean TouchFlo scrolling? The first feature that HTC copied from the iPhone, last year? Ah yes, such foresight!
The HTC Touch HD is NOT like any other WM phone or ANY phone for that matter. It's sensitivity is far superior, beautiful screen, FAST, and can do anything you can throw at it besides useless things such as outputting video at a bar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wake up and smell yesterday's coffee. It's like like every other WM phone, runs the same software as every other WM phone, it even has the same processor and internal spec as most other current WM phones. The screen is new, as is the inconvenient lack of d-pad - everything else is the same old same old.
Oh, and please don't get me started on the lack of iPhone features. How about the ability to CUT and PASTE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, yeah, it doesn't do that. You knew about that? I thought it was a secret?
Want to talk to me about the iPhone marketplace?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really, but I'll tell about the Appstore - bloody brilliant. Thousands of quality apps, many of them free, all the paid ones generally much, much cheaper than their WinMo equivalents, and all there to be browsed and downloaded right on the device, updates alerted and downloaded in the same way.. yep, it's a fantastic system. Is that what you wanted to know?
There are programmers all over the net with custom programs for WM that allows us to do basically ANYTHING, even emulate the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now why would you want to emulate a rubbish old iPhone?
For the record, I used a Tytn II for the past year, I've never owned a Mac, and I've never been a "fanboy" of any damn thing, but if you think the iPhone's a soft target for a bit of WinMo frustration, you're mistaken.

HD is over-rated ?

OK at the risk of starting a flame war I want to ask for some objective feedback on the HD. I tried the HD in a shop today for about 20 minutes and I was quite disappointed. (I have a HTC tytn so I used my experience over the last 18 months with that as a reference.). My brief conclusions
(a) The screen is big with a lot of detail as everyone says but its not as bright as the iPhone, G1 or blackberry Storm. Also the blacks are a bit murky so the constrast is not as good as the iPhone, G1 or the Storm.
(b) The interface felt very "laggy" with lots of freezing. (I've subsequently found a thread here on XDA-Developers where there are many compaints of freezes for several seconds - the unit I tried in the shop belonged to the Sales guy and had been up and running in less than 1 day with nothing extra installed on it - I ended up showing the sales guy how to do some things ! ) Certainly TF3D was no way as "slick" as the iPhone or the G1. When trying to browse the web the HD I perfered the G1 when if on the HD I could see more !
(c) One of my requirements is basic operations should be possible with one hand. The lack of hardware buttons and a D-pad / trackball or scroller seems to make that difficult? For example, it was difficult to take a decent close up picture of someone as you have to press the screen which moves the HD and so causes a loss of focus. On the third attempt I gave up trying to take a decent picture.
(d) For such a big screen TF3D makes inefficient use of the screen. I was particularly disappointed with the music player. I got the impression that rather than focus on functionality HTC really wanted to make things look good.
Overall I was dissappointed. I really want to get rid of my Wm5 based Tytn but it looks like I might have to look at something else
Please convince me otherwise !
Can those of you who've had real experience (I.e. for than a couple of days - where you are in the honeymoon period) provide some feedback on the HD?

not going to convince you to change. i suggest you stick with the Tytn and you'll save yourself a lot of second guessing and heart ache. based on a-d above, the HD is not for you.

I played with the iPhone for 20 minutes and hated it... But when I tried the HD for about 20 minutes I loved it.

What the hek every now and then someone comes and start his own comparison of HD to Iphone!!!!
IPHONE for many of us is Cr***ap ...

You have already started the thread by painting such as prefect picture of iPhone. If your requirements are better met by that, just go get yourself an iPhone. Everyone person's requirements are different. For me, iPhone does not meet my need and HD does. If you want to know why, go to this thread and read every post there by myself.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443900

No point in flaming him (I have an Hermes as well and have a lot of questions about HD vs Touch Pro for instance)
It is really interesting to read people's opinion, may it be positive or negative to help many potential users chose with all cards in hand

Stick with your TyTn .... and wait for the next year 2009 devices.
For sure HD broughr fresh blood to the WinMo device, but thats not enough.
I am pretty sure, 2009 will be very interesting for mobile device (WinMo 6.5, Tegra?)

I have N95 for 15 Months and i thought i would never change phone again till iPhone 3G came out so i decided to upgrade.
At the same time my brother just bought Touch Diamond and I have to admit that I really hate the Diamond since the first few mins of playing with it. Laggy.. Sloppy.. Jerky.. Slowly.. Whatever u called it, Diamond has it all.
But now my brother decide to get a Touch HD, hoping that it will lift up our feeling some way some how, and he is right.
He got a phone last week and i have to say.. "It is in a different league with the iPhone"
Now i have to order another one for myself. Hope it will arrive soon ^^

Sorry but you are not right
By the way - the iPhone is indeed better because of the better OS
But also the HF Screen has not such a good contrast and has moires from different view angles ...
when you work for some days with the HD the iPhone screen shows pixels.
The HD screnn with th perfect resolution is much smoother
The HTC Touchflow SW is after a long time on devices quite fast ans very good ( not as good as iPhone OS ) - the only lag is that many functions are missing and HTC does not offer updates regularly to older devices.

annoying & ridiculous...
sorry ... BUT it really IS annoying to read so many threads where people are just complaining that the HD 'doesnt meet this and that and...' - whats the use in it ?! Everyone needs different things in a device, you wouldn't want my kind of shoes or trousers or car or whatever!!
So I don't give a s*** what anybody else has to say about the HD - I tested it for MYSELF, I found it to be excellent for me, I bought it two weeks ago, I do lots of flatrate-HSDPA'ing, business use 12 hours/day, permanent exchange sncy'ing, blablabla...my HD truely rocks. Simply said: theres nothing *I* miss - if you do, buy something you like.

First of all. Thanks for the feedback so far. I'm sorry that some of you seem to be overly defensive. What I am trying to get to the bottom of is that my short experience of the HD is at odds with the many many reviews of the HD on the web.
There are endless comparsions with the iPhone but I don't recall any mentioning the screen being not as bright or that the HD has a very "laggy" interface. The point is that the reviews hold up the iphone as the benchmark and generally give the impression that the HD is close in terms of touch sensitivity and better in terms of screen. I was therefore surprised when i got my hands on a unit to not get that impression in those areas. I am aware of the fact that the Iphone can't multi-task, has no FM radio, has locked down applications, video recording problems, poor support for MS office attachments etc etc. So I'm not that interested in it - its too restricted for me!
So what I'm trying to understand is why my, albeit, short experience is different.
So the questions remains guys.
Can you load a theme or change a setting to change the way the screen looks ?
(EagleSteve - I'm just reading that 49 page thread you refered to and I note the äuthor of the thread states - "I think Touchflo is just too "black" for me, not sure if it will run with a brighter skin or not, but I like the way PocketPlus makes a device look, much brighter" - So that suggests a possible fix to my concern of the screen being not as bright as I expected)
Is the lack of hardware buttons actually a problem or does the large touch screen make it a non issue in practice?
Do you have laggy behaviour ? Is there some App or setting which everyone loads to get rid of the "laggy" behaviour? For the me the real show-stopper is probably the laggy behaviour - I need to know how much of a problem it is in practice.
Thanks for the feedback

I don't know... my unit isn't laggy at all, tflo is flying, the only issue I have is about video playback. But this is going to be solved with the next CorePlayer release, I hope.

owen.cullum said:
[...]
Do you have laggy behaviour ? Is there some App or setting which everyone loads to get rid of the "laggy" behaviour? For the me the real show-stopper is probably the laggy behaviour - I need to know how much of a problem it is in practice.
Thanks for the feedback
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The laggy behaviour obviously depends on what ROM you have.
I for myself do not experience lags on my device.
EDIT: As for the themes. Giznetic has already made some. Check out this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=451731

I dont get it.
Is the lack of hardware buttons actually a problem or does the large touch screen make it a non issue in practice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U seems to like the iPhone so much but y u worry about this issue? It seems like u trying to point out that Touch HD lack of D-Pad and button so its useless.
What about iPhone? 1 lonely button is that enuff for u?
sigh..

Hi Owen,
Well I'm not a HD user, I actually have a raphael. but my experience with this device was similar to yours when I first got it. In my experience my device was very laggy to start with. I ended up downloading a ROM and the speed is beautiful, I'm sure the HD will have the same and when this device is around as long as the raphael you will have some amazing ROMs if you already don't. Although it does frustrate me that our performance issues have to be solve by personal developers (who by the way do a marvellous job). So if you are happy flashing a ROM you will certainly get to a point you are happy with in regards to performance. it may however take you some time to do so
In regards to the button aspect, which was going to be my primary focus, the raphael has a few more buttons and a scroll wheel device. Having the extra buttons is frustrating, I have only had minimal (if any) use for them and only feel like they take up room on the device. If you are happy to not have a keyboard I wouldn't be too concerned on the lack of buttons.
Cheers
TT

kids phone
there is nothing called iphone sorry buy its the kids phone, who said better os? if so why great apple went for exchnage ???gps but no application wow, 3g but u cant create 2 way video call so there is no compaison if u want to make u kids happy go for kids phone

owen.cullum said:
Please convince me otherwise !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No thanks
I bought the HD because I was sure it was the right device to answer my needs. One month after I'm still convinced it was a good choice.
But I'm even more convinced that there's just no interest in trying to convince other users that my phone is the one they need.
A consequence is the following: I'm not interested in being convinced that the HD was not good enough for me

The Touch HD has a very bright screen. Did you alter the settings, to turn off automatic backlight?
I don't find my HD laggy at all especially with the tweak that optimises the cache. Even out of the box I didn't find the HD laggy. Afterall it's only a phone and not your desktop PC...

Screen looks nice enough in my opinion. I can't convince you that it isn't over rated as after having one for a few weeks I feel it is nothing special.
For the people that say there is no point complaining, this is true if you don't own one I suppose. Although if a person did buy one because of the hype and it doesn't live up to it then I think they have every right to say why they feel they don't like it. I spent 500 quid on mine and I should be able to criticise things about it I don't like at that point.
If a person is happy with his device that's great but others that don't share that feeling are entitled to their views too.

Like I said, each has his own need and preference, so I can only summarise for you who iphone is not worthy of comparison to hd from my viewpoint only.
1. I like the hd screen and not iphone screen: because HD screen has the right level of sensitivity and supports stylus. Stylus is a critical requirements not only it is more user friendly to me, but also because it supports hand writing. Screen brightness of HD is completely adequate under bright sunlight.
2. I need availability of tomtom or similar software. Iphone does not have an acceptable navigation software.
3 I need desktop class word, spreadsheet, and presentation editing software, which iphone doesn't have.
4.I need better software keyboard than that iphone offer and winmo platform offers that.
5.I cannot live with iphone's battery design because I'd been stuck without battery. I do not want the bulk of a mobile charger.
6. the breath and depth of software in iphone is still not there yet.
7. I prefer HD's bigger screen.
8. I like having more buttons in HD rather than just one in iphone.
9. I like being able to customise. You don't like black? No problem. Use something like spb mobile shell, or change the skin and background of tf3d.
10.I like to have lots of choices when come to firmware or ROM. You don't have that with iphone. The ability to improve is very limited.
11.I like FM radio, I like cut and paste, I like all the little things which HD can do and iphone can't.
I like the build quality of iphone. I like it's browser. I like it's smoothness in displaying web pages more than Opera mobile. I like its multimedia capability.
I almost got an iphone.
For me, iphone is a very sexy women, and the temptation to marry her is great. But if I want someone who can manage the household, bring up the kids well, wise with finance, and kind to people, HD is the plain Jane whom can deliver.

Help!!! Should I move on from HTC Touch Cruise to X1???

I have a huge dilema guys. I've been lusting over the X1 ever since it was released in December. However, I have an HTC Touch Cruise... Its clearly not a very outdated device. Have any of you upgraded from a 400mhz Touch series phone or newer, and if so do you feel you got your money's worth?
So what are your thoughts? Could the X1 keep you satisfied for over a year? (FYI, I feel the Touch Pro 2 is ugly and bulky and I'm not at all down with HTC's new pattern of devices w/o DPADs or camera keys or functional landscape)
The only phones I see pulling me away from the X1 are a GSM Palm Pre with North American 3G (not likely to be released any time soon), Sony X2 (no inidication as to when one will come out), or the "3rd Gen" iPhone w/Skype, A2DP, and 3D nav w/voice (hell will prob freeze over before it can do any of those).

sonus said:
I have a huge dilema guys. I've been lusting over the X1 ever since it was released in December. However, I have an HTC Touch Cruise... Its clearly not a very outdated device. Have any of you upgraded from a 400mhz Touch series phone or newer, and if so do you feel you got your money's worth?
So what are your thoughts? Could the X1 keep you satisfied for over a year? (FYI, I feel the Touch Pro 2 is ugly and bulky and I'm not at all down with HTC's new pattern of devices w/o DPADs or camera keys or functional landscape)
The only phones I see pulling me away from the X1 are a GSM Palm Pre with North American 3G (not likely to be released any time soon), Sony X2, or the 4th Gen iPhone w/Skype, A2DP, and 3D nav w/voice (hell will prob freeze over before it can do any of those).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4th gen iPhone? Wheres the 3rd gen iphone.
I havn't ever used an actual HTC device other than the TyTn II (which is horrible) but if you like HTC, then Xperia is a pretty nice one.
Palm Pre looks like it's gonna do sweet things, but again, never used a palm, so it's the same as when I thought my iPhone would do sweet things, which is subsequently didn't.
It depends what you want, as far as phones go, it's probably the most dissappointing one (other than the iPhone, that's rock bottom) that I'v owned, especially havnt owned almost every Nokia N series device.
That being said, it's the WinMo that's the make or break, and you can't expect it to behave like a Sony Ericsson, because it really isnt.
So, if you like WinMo and can live with it, the SE Xperia is a nice place to be, and the community here is great for it.
Maybe in time the pace will pick up and we'll start finding more made for this resolution and landscape additions, but that's assuming it doesn't get steamrolled first.

If you're comfortable viewing in smallll screen go for Xperia, else take Touch HD or the upcoming Diamond II. I gues when Diamond 2 is widely available, Touch HD could have a drop in prices.
Regards,
Carty..

The lack of camera key on the Touch Pro is not a big deal, the middle action key is touch sensitive, so to zoom in you just lightly touch the action key and press to take picture. Not as "fun" as pressing real shutter key, but it works nice, So I reckon future devices from HTC would be equipped with similar system, especially for Touch Pro 2.
For a year the Xperia will surely holds, and with strong support from the community, it would probably last longer... Especially if Winmo 7 is hacked into it. The screen is not so terribly small, it's in fact to me a perfect balance between screen size and phone size... The HD/G01/iPhone is just too big for me.
The previews for Palm Pre unveils its promising future, beautiful interface combined with WebOS seemingly easy to develop apps, and developed by a company with strong history of great devices... It's simply going to be great. But... how about teething issues of new device, and worst, new OS? Surely there will be some rough roads for early adopters.
The X1 as it is, is a great device, compact yet stylish enough to reflect serious intentions from its owner.
Do note however, you choose Xperia because it's Windows Mobile. Judging from your signature... It's not quite the cup of tea you prefer. So, iPhone or Pre is your best bet... And heavier on Pre because it has iPhone like interface, WinMo functionality and awesome keyboard. I even have a slight crush on the Pre, but my X1 + Outlook combo is still top notch until the Pre came out and all of those would be bugs ironed out.

I had a Cruise and now an X1.
There is a HUGE difference.
The screen is awesome, the software is better, as the performance.
Also GPS is better.
I'm very satisfied with X1.

sonus said:
However, I have an HTC Touch Cruise... Its clearly not a very outdated device. Have any of you upgraded from a 400mhz Touch series phone or newer, and if so do you feel you got your money's worth?
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did exactly that - I still have the Polaris (P3650), a trusted backup device
The X1 has - obviously - much higher screen resolution, more Storage/RAM and a faster CPU. All of these things count.
There are also a number of excellent cooked ROM's here to make it zing.
I see from your post you want N America 3G, so presumably you are looking at the X1a.
The drawback I've seen is that the battery overheats when on wifi or GPS for longer periods (>1 hour, say) while charging from either the wall outlet or a car charger
If you are unlikely to exceed these parameters, then the X1a will work well for you.
Nonetheless, keep the Polaris as a backup for a while

Thanks all! Its good to hear some real world experience from X1 owners as well as ex Touch Cruise guys. I didn't get a feel for how many of you felt the X1 was a device that could stand the test of time and let you continue upgrade free for a decent amount of time... But I guess that's just about the individual person's characteristics as it is about the X1.
Ohh, and I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm anti winmo. At this point in the game, I can't switch from it, as its the only mobile OS that does everything I need. Its just too bad that it lacks speed and touch friendliness (hence the sig).
And if anyone's listening, one more question:
How do you guys like the panel UI? I'm one to try and make things work. I like HTC Home and the Cube. TF3D...not so much b/c it requires concentration and precision while using and could never really be used in a car (IE making a phone call over handsfree or starting up a Navigation app).

Darth Sith said:
I had a Cruise and now an X1.
Also GPS is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did a test of GPS with both devices (Polaris and X1) with interesting results.
Both devices were exactly side-by-side on a ute tray in the field at the same time. Same GPS survey program running on both of them:
P3650 6 satellites HDOP 1.5m
X1 9 satellites HDOP 0.9m
Radio ROM in the P3650 (Polaris) is 1.64.08.21
Radio ROM in the X1 is 1.10.25.18
The 50% difference in satellites found and 35% difference in horizontal DOP is down to the improvement in GPS in the appropriate Qualcomm CPU's and maybe the radio ROM's for each device. The X1 is way better here.

sonus said:
Thanks all! Its good to hear some real world experience from X1 owners as well as ex Touch Cruise guys. I didn't get a feel for how many of you felt the X1 was a device that could stand the test of time and let you continue upgrade free for a decent amount of time... But I guess that's just about the individual person's characteristics as it is about the X1.
Ohh, and I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm anti winmo. At this point in the game, I can't switch from it, as its the only mobile OS that does everything I need. Its just too bad that it lacks speed and touch friendliness (hence the sig).
And if anyone's listening, one more question:
How do you guys like the panel UI? I'm one to try and make things work. I like HTC Home and the Cube. TF3D...not so much b/c it requires concentration and precision while using and could never really be used in a car (IE making a phone call over handsfree or starting up a Navigation app).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, my perspective for you on that last question, as a person that has never used winmo and has become very big on finger touch interfaces.
The Panels help this a lot here because for me, some of the most important features of my phone are texting, music, wifi and bluetooth (file sharing, web browsing)
So, without touching the stylus I can pretty much achieve all of these.
So, I start on the Today Screen, nothing I need there really. But I like to have my IM program there.
I want some music I hit the panel key, press the MediaXperience panel with my thumb and then navigate that with the optical pad (which I have set to minimum sensitivity cause it really is sensitive!)
I'm done listening to music I want to browse the web or send/receive by bluetooth I hit the panel key, press on the SE panel (the one with the big clock) I can toggle wifi/bluetooth on/off there. I can see if I have any messages or calls. Excellent.
If I need to file browse I have Resco Explorer installed in Touch Optimised mode, and I slide out the keyboard or use Finger Keyboard 2 to choose commands from the menus.
HTC Enlarged start menu for easy finger pressing if i need to do anything there.
Microsoft Voice Command if I want to do some things like find out what my appointments are for today/tomorrow.
Phone calls are easy and don't require the stylus, I generally call teh same 4 or 5 people so I dont use the contacts much andi nstead just scroll thorug hthe recent calls with the optical pad.
If I need to call a specific contact I will slide out the keyboard or use the voice command. Even with my phone book full of "colourful" names it works fine.
Messages etc are simple, I normally don't send messages first, I'm only every replying to them, so I just hit reply, slide out the keyboard and type away.
I think that' about it, I can't think of anything else I normally do with it. Most of the time i spend now with the device (other than the important stuff) is customising it and trying to make it sync my email as well as my iphone doe over wifi while it's sleeping.

HTC Diamond2 or HTC Magic(Google2)? Help me choose, please.

I have waited faithfully for a long time for Android, but now I have fallen in love with Diamond2...
I am a student, and will mostly need the phone for entertainment purposes. For my use, (mostly internet, skype, taking the occational picture, watching .avi's, mp3, old school games like nes or scummvm), which one would you pick? It's important for me the the phone is fast and responsive, and that it can edit .doc files (word, openoffice, something like that). I also would love for it to have a file-organizer (something like norton commander would have been excellent), ability to run and install files from the phone directly, and the ability to download with it (torrents, etc) and if possible, stream online content. So basically a mini-computer. Which phone do you think is best for me? I do not care about calender, email (e.i outlook) integration, or anything that has to do with planing and\or actual work, in other words
Also:
Do you belive android will get ported to the diamond 2 in the forseeable future?
So to sum up, Should I just go for the Diamond 2 or wait a month or two for the Magic (thats the earliest it will be released here in norway)?

im not an expert at this (ive had no luck with my herald), but if you check around, there are diamond android ports.
most likely, they will be on the diamond2 if they r on the 1st one.
winmo - buisiness/planning/work
android - consumor, but can do buisiness and work
(i can say this because, like i said, i had a herald, and i have the dream)
ur choice buddy ;]

just want to add my opinion. I have had 4 WinMo phones in the past, currently have the Blackstone, which im trying to get rid of. Anyways, I am a "medical" student, who really doesn't use all the features that can be found on a WinMo phone. I have played with a friends G1 and was honestly amazed at how much it just "fit" with me. I know I will probably be bashed for saying this, but phones like the android (G1) and the Iphone are really what I am interested in now. They are simplistic to use, but still can outperform your normal plain old phones. For me, if the G2 Magic doesn't wow me when it hits the U.S. shores in a couple of weeks, than I will probably purchase an Unlocked Iphone. Now, you have to base your decision on what you will use the phone for, especially if you are a student. This is my opinion, but if you are really into business type stuff where you would need all the necessities of a PC than go with the Diamond. If you want a cool, visually appealing phone that isn't as powerful as the Diamond but still gets the job done! than go with the G2.

I agree with redrazr's post above, but I would also like to add that for me a big part of going Android was to be part of something huge, right from the start. I mean, the first Android phone (the G1) has been out less than eight months and Android is already this good? That's pretty damn amazing. WinMo fanboys won't like this, but give Android eight months more and it will blow WinMo out of the water in every single aspect.
And no, WinMo 6.5 (and not even WinMo 7) will not revolutionize WinMo since they're still based on the same old crappy, sluggish platform/core. My understanding is that WinMo 8 will be the first WinMo based on a completely new and/or revamped core, and won't be out until 2013 or so.

mannyb said:
I agree with redrazr's post above, but I would also like to add that for me a big part of going Android was to be part of something huge, right from the start. I mean, the first Android phone (the G1) has been out less than eight months and Android is already this good? That's pretty damn amazing. WinMo fanboys won't like this, but give Android eight months more and it will blow WinMo out of the water in every single aspect.
And no, WinMo 6.5 (and not even WinMo 7) will not revolutionize WinMo since they're still based on the same old crappy, sluggish platform/core. My understanding is that WinMo 8 will be the first WinMo based on a completely new and/or revamped core, and won't be out until 2013 or so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He he, I have a D2 and I will not flame you for supporting Android (but then I am not a microsoft fanboy at all, I am typing from ubuntu right now ).
The problem with the smartphones imho is that they still are differentiated using their OS, sometimes even from the carrier customization. Their are more carier network toy than than their are your own toy, while they should be judged on their design, hardware specs and support only imho. Like a PC, where you can install any OS and applications you want, and are even expected to do so.
Thanks to xda-devellopers, HTC phones are closer to what every smartphone should be: an handheld computer with a large array of network connectivity options on which the user (you, that have paid for a device that is now your own, damnit ) can install the OS of his choice.
All that to say that Android should be installable on the TD2, and likely will be installable quite soon. Which is only the absolute minimum to be expected for an open-source OS for which google took A LOT from the opensource community to develop. Android should be installable on any device that has compatible hardware to run it, no excuses (HTC is at fault here, it should halp xda-develloper in the porting effort if not offering multiboot himself from the start, especially as all it's top-of-the-line smartphones are so close to each other hardware-wise).
So once the playfield is levelled and Android is installable on the TD2 (as it is on the HD, even if it is work in progress), I think that the TD2 and Magic should be compared from hardware and design alone. That's why I have chosen the TD2 (I like its design more, and a higher resolution screen is a big plus for me, I read a lot on my smartphone). But for other people the Magic could be better (digital compass, larger battery, more physical inputs like the trackball and additional buttons are its advantages imho)

gkai said:
So once the playfield is levelled and Android is installable on the TD2 (as it is on the HD, even if it is work in progress), I think that the TD2 and Magic should be compared from hardware and design alone. That's why I have chosen the TD2 (I like its design more, and a higher resolution screen is a big plus for me, I read a lot on my smartphone). But for other people the Magic could be better (digital compass, larger battery, more physical inputs like the trackball and additional buttons are its advantages imho)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could not agree more. I'd pick Android over WinMo any day of the week, but let's be honest; WinMo phones have the best hardware. The few Android phones on the market definitely can't hang in that aspect. The only thing I can't stand about WinMo hardware is the resistive touchscreen they're stuck with. WinMo does not support capacitive screens as far as I know.

im going with the magic
i dont really like the look of the diamond 2 and the magics screen is bigger..and plus its going to have a 5mp camera for the US version ..i miss android..i went from the G1 to the Touch HD to the iPhone...touch hd was the worst expierence..windows mobile was dreadful for me...iphone..i dont feel as free with it but the variety of apps is quiet appealing to me especially after you jailbreak it..and android..lacked alot in the beginning but it was awsome i just hated the fact that i have to open the damn keyboard for every little thing i needed to type and i didnt want to wait for cupcake..but magic here i come

So in the last 15 or so months I have had 8 PDA's... 6 of them were WinMo, & Honestly I love WinMo for its versatility & The touchFlo interface is freeking awesome.. But.. I am using a g1 now & The only phone I am looking at other than it is the MyTouch (magic) the day T-Mo releases it (if not sooner).. The android OS has shown me to be much much more intelligently designed & Has yet to have any major issues (I have only had to soft reset the phone 2 or 3 times in the last 2 months).. The App Store is also a huge factor as well.. With free apps that actually work & improve the value of the device.. My last phone before this was a Touch Diamond (unlocked GSM) & I loved it for that beautiful High Res screen & The fact that movies on it were Absolutely Amazing.. Not to mention the small form factor.. But on the other Hand using the Cinema App downloaded for free from the android app store My movie playback looks almost as good (ie 1080i vs 1080p ish) & on a bigger screen.. Also Much less herky jerky to start & stop...
I am super excited for the Magic to come out, but if I had my choice I Would have kept my Diamond & Used Android on it & Somehoe managed to make a MicroSDHC work on it.. That would be my absolute perfect phone.. The Diamond 2 on the other hand I Think only had 1 thing over the diamond & thats the MicroSDHC slot as the increased screen size isnt in my opinion enough to be worth the increased mass.. Its like an inbetween size from the original diamond & an HD & I Dont think thats a necessarry spot to fill..
My 1 And only complaint with the G1 is the bulk & The Magic will obviously resolve that & only a Pocket test will be able to tell if it feels as small & easy to cary/use as the Diamond was..

The port for the diamond 2 will never be complete and always behind the current release of Android.
While the Diamond 2 has a higher resolution screen than the Magic the Magic is capacitive and performs much better in direct sunlight. Android will never run as well on the Diamond 2 as the magic.

macsbac said:
The port for the diamond 2 will never be complete and always behind the current release of Android.
While the Diamond 2 has a higher resolution screen than the Magic the Magic is capacitive and performs much better in direct sunlight. Android will never run as well on the Diamond 2 as the magic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Capacitive vs resistive is not so simple an issue: After testing the iTouch, I was all for capacitive, partly because it is more responsive to fingers, but even more because it offer a hard glass screen, much harder and durable than soft plastic resistive screen...
However, after testing the TD2 resistive screen, I must say that reactivity is almost as good as capacitive (not as good, but it is ok for me).
Durability could still be an issue, but the screen seems harder than my previous PDA, and with screen protection + flip case this is not an issue anymore.
BUT with resistive screen I have the possibility to use the stylus, which is very nice for accurate pointing (not relly needed for android, but very usefull for WM) and freehand drawing/ handwriting recognition. this may look like a gadget, but given the number of time I use my PDA as a notepad for quick drawing (abroad, when you do not speak the local language, a picture is worth a dozen words, and a thousand innacurate gesticulations ;-) ).
Capacitive do not allow the use of a stylus (except of the fat-and-soft tip variety, which I consider as completely useless, because it offer no real accuracy improvement), and, for me, this is a significant drawback. If a capacite technology evolve to allow for a pen-like stylus with pinpoint accuracy, then it would definitely burry resistive technology. Not before, especially for asian countries where the ability to draw characters is really useful.
For the direct sunlight, I agree: TD2 is not good under direct sunlight. Barely readable with high contrast large font text, but nothing more. Older PDA were better for this, and I believe you that Magic may be better too. I would be surprised if it was great, though, besides e-ink or passive LCD (reflective technologies), no screen has ever been great under direct sunlight ;-)
And for Android not running as well on the TD2 than on the Magic, yes, but the difference should be minimal: the hardware is almost the same, and Android is opensource, so the porting, once the bootloader/HARDSpl is done, should be quite straightforward...

I have owned winmo phones, played with an icrap, and now own a g1, and I will say I'd never ever go back. Android is always improving and will never stop improving. We have a few great developers that are always making this o.s. better. If you are looking for a phone for hardware, wait till one come out with Android. Otherwise get a magic. From what it seems like from your post, you'd be happier with android and the "wow" factor.

HTC the first real iPhone killer?

Do you think the HTC HD" will be the first iPhone killer?

Think its a different beast - but yes for me it does what I need to do better than the Iphone. Iphone is good for toys but not for business and multimedia

No, they're targeting different markets. Windows Mobile is for technology geeks only; the iPhone is aimed at normal people. I think some of the coming-soon high-end Android devices might be a better match for the iPhone - things like the Motorola Droid, Acer Liquid and (perhaps especially) the HTC Dragon.

DinoZ1 said:
Do you think the HTC HD" will be the first iPhone killer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is very personal, at least to me, from the start, iPhone is just not for me, it is kinda gadget to me more than a proper phone and it has apps restriction for me but HTC with WM gives me everything I need. HTC Touch HD has already been iPhone killer to me. I know I'm giving comment too personally, but here are my preferences that why iPhone never been too good for me:
1: iPhone can't switch battery, very often it will run out of battery in the middle of something really busy
2. less display resolution and smaller even though the display look stunning
3. doesn't have Garmin and no support for the best map (Garmin format) in my country
4. I prefer expandable memory cards
5. front camera even though HD2 doesn't have one too, what a huge disappointment, but not a deal breaker to me
6. HTC has great support and great fun with many cooked roms to play here, what about iphone?
7. smaller screen with iphone which make me find it difficult with lot of errors when entering texts as multi touch require finger flesh instead of nails pin- pointing with resistive screen. Though multi touch feels real awesome and ultra responsive. Now the HD2 is with multitouch too and with bigger screen!
8. I prefer WM OS as it supports more apps and has lots more settings to play with

good point
precsmo said:
this is very personal, at least to me, from the start, iPhone is just not for me, it is kinda gadget to me more than a proper phone and it has apps restriction for me but HTC with WM gives me everything I need. HTC Touch HD has already been iPhone killer to me. I know I'm giving comment too personally, but here are my preferences that why iPhone never been too good for me:
1: iPhone can't switch battery, very often it will run out of battery in the middle of something really busy
2. less display resolution and smaller even though the display look stunning
3. doesn't have Garmin and no support for the best map (Garmin format) in my country
4. I prefer expandable memory cards
5. front camera even though HD2 doesn't have one too, what a huge disappointment, but not a deal breaker to me
6. HTC has great support and great fun with many cooked roms to play here, what about iphone?
7. smaller screen with iphone which make me find it difficult with lot of errors when entering texts as multi touch require finger flesh instead of nails pin- pointing with resistive screen. Though multi touch feels real awesome and ultra responsive. Now the HD2 is with multitouch too and with bigger screen!
8. I prefer WM OS as it supports more apps and has lots more settings to play with
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel pretty much the same way indeed...

I hope not. Would not like to have anything that resembled the iPhone.

Yes, when the Leo comes out the iPhone will be killed, and will die.

niknik76 said:
Yes, when the Leo comes out the iPhone will be killed, and will die.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^ What he said.

As good as I think the HTC Leo is, it's not going to kill the iPhone (I've preordered a Leo btw).
Still a long way to go .... just ask the average joe ...and I think 7 out of 10 would have never heard of HTC, let alone HTC HD2 (well...it's like this in Australia at least).

why does the iphone need to die anyway? Completely different market and significant difference in usability.
iphone, lots of downloadable apps for just about anything, viewable screen in sunlight, locked into mother apple. No multitasking or customization (unless jail broke).....oh, and did I mention you get what apple says you get?
Leo (or any Winmo smartphone) Strong Windows base, tons of flexibility (esp thanks to xda), tons of apps, many free/donationware (esp thanks to xda), hugo-montenagro screen, (hopefully) viewable in sunlight, multitasking galore (esp with 320MB RAM)....and did I mention the excellent support here at xda?
iphone will not be going away soon..and who gives a crap?

HTC HD2 reviewed, “… makes Apple phone suddenly look very old.”
related article: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=9399

For goodness sake! Not all this 'IPhone killer' nonsense again!
Every time a new phone comes out (HTC Touch, Touch HD, HD2, Hero, whatever!) some people think that the existence of the new phone will 'kill' the iPhone... ridiculous!
They will COMPETE with each other, not kill each other.
Some people may get an HD2 over an Iphone due to bigger high-res screen, or some other feature they appreciate, others will prefer the Iphone because they like stupid games or something.
The TP2 is serious competition for the Iphone, though the devices do appeal to differing markets, with significant overlap. The iPhone will probably still be a better toy, and the TP2 a better productivity device.

Leo will kill all iPhones. The iPhone as a phone will DIE. This is final.

Guys, what you mean by iphone killer?
- if you mean "much better performance&****" - then yes is an iPhone killer. Even HTC HD is an iPhone killer. You must be blind not to see that or fanatic (brainless). Of course other phones were HD Killer and so on.
- if you mean "after HD2 no one will buy an iPhone" - then is wrong. iPhone have a different target - people who what to be fancy and who were not able to have a personal point of view - they think only what the masses think.
In my country we saying "if fox does not reach the apple it says it is sour".
Stay for a second and think - your opinion must represent your desire or must represent manufactor desire? In first case you have brain, in second case you have brain only if you gain somthening from manufactor, otherwise your are stupid/fanatic.
Think about that!

niknik76 said:
Yes, when the Leo comes out the iPhone will be killed, and will die.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pantaloonie said:
^^^ What he said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assumed that was sarcasm...

DavidMc0 said:
For goodness sake! Not all this 'IPhone killer' nonsense again!
Every time a new phone comes out (HTC Touch, Touch HD, HD2, Hero, whatever!) some people think that the existence of the new phone will 'kill' the iPhone... ridiculous!
They will COMPETE with each other, not kill each other.
Some people may get an HD2 over an Iphone due to bigger high-res screen, or some other feature they appreciate, others will prefer the Iphone because they like stupid games or something.
The TP2 is serious competition for the Iphone, though the devices do appeal to differing markets, with significant overlap. The iPhone will probably still be a better toy, and the TP2 a better productivity device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but someone's got to say something here and it might as wek be me. You're never going to be a proper fanboy for either side if you insist on using all that logic and common sense nonsense.
Ignore the facts, put on the blinkers, drink the kool-aid, and then you're going to fail as a clueless fanboy. Pick a side, spout as much biased tripe as you can, and join in the fun!

DavidMc0 said:
Some people may get an HD2 over an Iphone due to bigger high-res screen, or some other feature they appreciate, others will prefer the Iphone because they like stupid games or something.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't fully agree with that because I know quite a lot of WinMo users that have moved to iPhone because of the "poor & complicated" interface.
Multitouch capacitive sceen, and TF3D last generation, power of the snapdragon, ability to read divx video without re-encoding might bring them back on track to WinMo.
It is true that there is at leat one PDA that match every user needs, but there are some that could match alomost all.
Leo surely is one of them,...

ffs, why does anyone even care????????
if you like the iphone..buy it!!
if you like a WM phone..buy one!!
why spend hours debating which one will 'kill' the other one. seriously, who gives a crap!!
some people will ALWAYS say that the iphone is the best...some people will ALWAYS say that WM rocks....those people are basing their decisions on what they want from the phone....it's an emotive issue, and a complete waste of time and effort.

Finally
After all that have been said in this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=580981
I think we have an answer don't you think?

I say hell no, but it is pretty close. If you want to go WM for some reason, then any WM device is iPhone killer. But this WM device is first which has similar wow-effect as iPhone, when you take it in your hands.