Database Users

iPhone like thumb keyboard - new version on 2007-07-20

A little while ago, I saw a video of the first iPhone tests. When I saw the gesture & keyboard input using the fingers, I was thinking : I can do that as well...
So I developed my own finger input keyboard.
Since I don't have a mobile PC atm, I've only been able to run the demo on the pocket PC emulator.
Currently it feels a little slow to me, so I was wondering how it was holding up on a real pocket PC, and if anybody would be able to test it, and maybe even post a little video of the test-app in use.
I think atm the dictionary might have the biggest performance impact. In the current version I support about 75000 English words, while most predictive systems use a dictionary consisting of +/- 15000 words. If the performance part is lacking, I might try to reduce the dictionary to 15000 words also.
A few notes :
- currently only the keyboard support is available for WM5/6, so no gestures
- .Net compact framework 2.0 must be installed.
- only English is supported.
- the prediction is intelligent. a few examples of intended first matches:
* SURROGATE (input text : XUERMFSRE )
* TWEAKER (input text : YSRALDR )
* ABSOLUTE BEGINNER (input text : ZHDIMYTR JRHOKKER)
Since I don't have a pocket PC handy atm, I was also wondering if the finger input method is usable on a real Pocket PC. Please let me know what you think...
Here you can see a screen shot of the app in the windows emulator :
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
USAGE:
- Just type the words, and use space or ENTER to confirm the first match.
- Press clr to clear the current word.
- Press the text box containing the key input to use this word (currently the words do not get added automatically)
- further keyboard enhancements (QWERTY, numbers,... & skinning) will be developed in the future if this turns out to be usable.
Update 2007-06-19 : new version available (at the same link)
- performance improvements
- QWERTY,AZERTY & numeric keypad
- Tactile feedback (sound)
- ...
Update 2007-06-20 : new version available (at the same link)
- performance improvements after an online chat with tene
You can download it at this page .
Please test it and give me your feedback !!! Thanks !!

Did a test. Comments:
- Yes, it is slow. I had it in my SD, it took 10 seconds to start
- I can't type very fast on a non QWERTY keyboard, consider a QWERTY?
- Yes, it is slow, sometimes, when there are words matches, it takes a while before my next letter appear, and I thought I didn't poke it hard enough, and I get repeating letters
- There is no `back-space` on the keyboard + the previous problem, making testing very unconfortable.
- There seems to be a [] appearing whenever I choose a letter from the list
- I can use the hardware directional pad to choose the word that I want.
Anyway, nice work.. needs some improvements though

Thanks a lot !! You are the first person who actually responds (after about 60 downloads in the past week)...
hanmin said:
Did a test. Comments:
- Yes, it is slow. I had it in my SD, it took 10 seconds to start
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will create a smaller dictionary in the next version, so it can load quicker
- I can't type very fast on a non QWERTY keyboard, consider a QWERTY?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the current development version QWERTY is integrated
- Yes, it is slow, sometimes, when there are words matches, it takes a while before my next letter appear, and I thought I didn't poke it hard enough, and I get repeating letters
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dot you think some kind of feedback (a sound, or maybe virbration if possible) would improve this ?
- There is no `back-space` on the keyboard + the previous problem, making testing very unconfortable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only implemented the CLR-key to clear a whole word. Maybe I should revise this, and turn it into backspace..
- There seems to be a [] appearing whenever I choose a letter from the list
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will check this...
- I can use the hardware directional pad to choose the word that I want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't even think about this, but it might be a good idea to use the directional pad. Thanks !
Anyway, nice work.. needs some improvements though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, thanks for the info... now I know what to improve, I can get on with this...
If I fix most of the problems mentioned here, would you consider this a usable thumb keyboard ?

anyway whatever the outcome we should all appreciate someone who is trying something new, great work Tom - wish you good luck for the future

Hi,
I've tested it, the concept seems to work quite well, however it's a bit too slow for my device (200Mhz HTC Touch)... but I guess some improvment can be made.
Note that developing a custom SIP for pocket device require to write a in-process COM dll... so you'll need native.
Also a quick feedback
- think about UI feedback for keypress, it will make the app look faster.
- for a hand device, selecting the right suggestion with the finger is a bit hard (but hey it's a poc).
- I wonder, do you consider the tap position on the key? (for instance I press E, but I'm closer to R, so suggestion will go to E or R, not Z which is less likely).

sany said:
anyway whatever the outcome we should all appreciate someone who is trying something new, great work Tom - wish you good luck for the future
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot !!

tene said:
Hi,
I've tested it, the concept seems to work quite well, however it's a bit too slow for my device (200Mhz HTC Touch)... but I guess some improvment can be made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, somebody from Belgium as well...
I will release a version with a smaller dictionary soon. The HTC touch was the device I had in mind while developing this app, so it is a pleasure for me to find out the concept in itself seems to work.
Note that developing a custom SIP for pocket device require to write a in-process COM dll... so you'll need native.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know... I was exploring the option of using system-wide mouse events (some kind of gesture to pop-up the keyboard) as an alternative, but the constant switch between native & .NET in the msgproc seems to slow down the pocket PC too much, so I will probably have to convert this into a native c++ app.
Also a quick feedback
- think about UI feedback for key press, it will make the app look faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will look into this
- for a hand device, selecting the right suggestion with the finger is a bit hard (but hey it's a poc).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This also
- I wonder, do you consider the tap position on the key? (for instance I press E, but I'm closer to R, so suggestion will go to E or R, not Z which is less likely).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I do, and I predict my words in order of the best matches first. But if E or R would not return enough word matches, I would turn to Z off course
When you consider the typing speed with this, how would you estimate it :
- better/worse then stylus keypad
- better/worse then 'graffiti'
- better/worse then some other method I never heard about.
If possible, could you give me en estimate of the amount of typed words/minute ?

TomJanssens said:
When you consider the typing speed with this, how would you estimate it :
- better/worse then stylus keypad
- better/worse then 'graffiti'
- better/worse then some other method I never heard about.
If possible, could you give me en estimate of the amount of typed words/minute ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately: it's too slow to provide accurate result on my touch. The suggestion panel isn't usable by finger, so I can't provide such result... and I do speak french, so most of my messages are in french. Also I don't have much XP using PDA phone, based on my test, it was the most promising input however.
By the way, if you need help with the C++ version... contact me...

hello,
it crash on a qtek 9100 (Wizard is the US name I think)
it says : outofbound exception... I don't have the full error message.
I have the compact framework 2
Best regards,
Olivier

Please try the new version
could you try the new version (less memory intensive) :
http://www.corebvba.be/blog/CategoryView,category,iPhone.aspx

newer version with qwerty etc...
So far so good.... I have been fixing most of the issues you all suggested, and released a new version on my site :
http://www.corebvba.be/blog/CategoryView,category,iPhone.aspx
This version has better performance, QWERTY, as well as AZERTY & numeric keypads & provides tactile feedback (sound)
Still on my todo list:
- backspace
- Custom words & contacts in dictionary
- skinning
- performance
Please test it and let me know what you think about it.

Let me say your app has a huge potential. You just have to work a little more on the dictionary and the speed of the app, and of, course, on the GUI and this could be a hit.

Promising
Just tried on wizard, speed OK, easy to use very impressed.
Excuse my ignorance, will this be usable with writing text messages, i.e. some sort of program integration or an ability to copy and paste text?
Best 1 thumb text entry method I have tried even with BIG thumbs.
Backspace in the pipeline I see, will keep coming back to check on updates.

TomJanssens said:
So far so good.... I have been fixing most of the issues you all suggested, and released a new version on my site :
http://www.corebvba.be/blog/CategoryView,category,iPhone.aspx
This version has better performance, QWERTY, as well as AZERTY & numeric keypads & provides tactile feedback (sound)
Still on my todo list:
- backspace
- Custom words & contacts in dictionary
- skinning
- performance
Please test it and let me know what you think about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Tested the latest version, it's still too slow on my touch. Sound feedback is awful, visual feedback maybe the way to go. I've lot of idea for technical improvement, do you want to make it a collaboration project?
regards,
Quentin

Hi just tried your keyboard there, wasn't too sure what to expect, when I noticed tene taking an interest my hopes were raised. I would like to see a keyboard where you can drag your thumb over the letters like tene's contact manager, and the letter pops up in a bubble and is entered when you release your thumb. But it seems to work ok on my artemis, bit slow to load but ok to use. Looking forward to your future work thanks.

And again, anew version 2007-07-20
After a little chat with Tene from xda-developers.net, I suddenly realised that the performance problems could be easily solved my making the keyboard a little bit less tolerant to errors.
So I adjusted a single variable, compiled the version, and ... Now it even runs smooth on my emulator...
You can download the version at the same link :
http://www.corebvba.be/blog/CategoryView,category,iPhone.aspx
Please let me know what you think about the performance

hello,
with the last version, it is still crashing.
(my device is a qtek 9100 = wizard)
the message says :
System.ThrowHelper.ThrowArgumentOutOfRangeException()
to
System.collections.Generic.List '1.get_Item()
to
coreInput.DAWGNode.LoadFromStream()
to
coreInput.DAWG..ctor()
to
IphoneMockup.MainForm..ctor()
to
IphoneMockup.MainForm.Main()
I don't know what is Iphonemockup, I don't have any program with this name installed
I have a today skin of Iphone, and a wisbar skin of Iphone
note that it crash exactly in the same way, with wisbar, and without wisbar advance desktop
hope it helps...
Olivier

orobin said:
hello,
with the last version, it is still crashing.
(my device is a qtek 9100 = wizard)
the message says :
System.ThrowHelper.ThrowArgumentOutOfRangeException()
to
System.collections.Generic.List '1.get_Item()
to
coreInput.DAWGNode.LoadFromStream()
to
coreInput.DAWG..ctor()
to
IphoneMockup.MainForm..ctor()
to
IphoneMockup.MainForm.Main()
I don't know what is Iphonemockup, I don't have any program with this name installed
I have a today skin of Iphone, and a wisbar skin of Iphone
note that it crash exactly in the same way, with wisbar, and without wisbar advance desktop
hope it helps...
Olivier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This message points to an error when loading the dictionary from the exe itself. As it works on the other pcketpc's, i was wondering if you have got the latest version of .net compact framework correctly installed. Maybe an uninstall and then reinstall of the compact framework might help ?

Can find this at greek language ????plesae help me

hello,
ok, I will try to uninstall the framework, and install it again.
I will keep you updated.
just to give you the information : I actually have the framework 2, and I have some program using it properly.
but anyway, I will try what you ask.
Best regards,
Olivier

[07/24/2008] Finger Friendly Contact Application - PocketCM Contacts 0.25c - Alphabet

[01/25/2009] PocketCM Contacts 0.29 - Finger Friendly Contact Application
Hi all,
I've release PocketCM Contacts 0.29, feel free to test, comment, etc...
I made a new thread, because the old one isn't really manageable anymore, and this version is a big rewrite of lot of stuff, so I expect a few regression issue.
Theme for 0.18 and before will not work correctly with this version, you need 0.29 theme
Support for SMS forwarding
Support for sending SMS to multiple contact at once
Better VGA support: more usable, react better to the finger, improved Black and Dream theme
Big speed improvment on animation (looks nice on VGA now)
Speed optimization for all text rendering (smoother than ever)
Various fix and improvements
Faster SMS loading
Improved theme developer mode: read here
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
As always, you can get it here: www.pocketcm.com.
Also, PocketCM Contact is available for free for personal use, in order to support me, you can make a donation. I thank everybody who already made a donation, and you can thank them too: PocketCM Contact is free.

Hi
Just loaded it up, changed it to the black skin, which i like best. Seems to run great, haven't run into any problems yet. Very nice work, mate.
One think i did notise is, that when I go into a contact, the "Back" is missing the right side of the "B". Just the vertical part. No biggie, but still guess it's not suppose to be like that.
Keep up the great work.
Flemming

this is truly the best tool ever for pdas. thanks a million times for your hard work.

Great update you're doing a great job.
Loading times is better than 0.15, which is a great improvement.
IMHO - the only thing missing is a keyboard easy to find a contact, and the best one I could find is the one found in FingerFriendlyFriends program. I truly love that keyboard. Implementing it in PocketCM would make it simply perfect.
Keep up the awesome work!!

CABless Installation
Guys, how do I do this ?
(Sorry found it on the website)

KamaL said:
Great update you're doing a great job.
Loading times is better than 0.15, which is a great improvement.
IMHO - the only thing missing is a keyboard easy to find a contact, and the best one I could find is the one found in FingerFriendlyFriends program. I truly love that keyboard. Implementing it in PocketCM would make it simply perfect.
Keep up the awesome work!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you need a keyboard when all you have to do is slide your finger down the side of the screen to get the alphabet bar, it doesn't get much easier than that!

Install from a zip: copy the files
Filtering with keyboard: click on phone (bottom right) and you can filter easily
great job.
Few messages are missing, for instance when you want to delete a contact.

Tene, I love the start-up time now, it has dramatically decreased. My only quirks: It seems like the scrolling feature has a delay, I will flick and it will stall a second and then it will scroll very fast. It doesnt seem as smooth as iContact. Also, when pushing the favorites tab I think the word favorites should change to All after it is pressed because pressing it again leads back to all the contacts. When you used to have buttons the filter used to change to the all contacts button after you press it, why does it not when its just words? overall great though, good work Tene

spencepu3 said:
Why do you need a keyboard when all you have to do is slide your finger down the side of the screen to get the alphabet bar, it doesn't get much easier than that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did u try it?? it 1000 times easier to use that keyboard than scrolling with your finger, at least that's my opinion.
And since there's already a keyboard why not use a better one

KamaL said:
Did u try it?? it 1000 times easier to use that keyboard than scrolling with your finger, at least that's my opinion.
And since there's already a keyboard why not use a better one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I have tried it and I do like it as well. However it does take up a good amount of screen real estate and for this reason I would rather not see it implemented.

Thanks .... Very Good Job But Still have the bug when I press and hold phone .... its minimize by it self and i can not press close button... why !!! idon not know

do i need to uninstall 0.15 first?

much better than previous version on the athena. runs fast now and very good. only quirk is it seems the animation for the filter is slow though on vga and lags. seems like sms animation lags a bit too. but much better than previous versions

Ive only noticed one bug, when using the the side scroll to go to contacts by letter, if i try to scroll all the way down to the end of my contacts, it does the bounce animation and half the screen (left) shows the end of my contact list and the other half (right) shows the beginning of my contact list starting at "A"
I dont have any "X", "Y", or "Z" contacts in my phone either so i dont know if that helps
thanks for making such an amazing piece of software.

Can we use the themes we made for the previous version, or do we have to start from scratch?
Love the app by the way!!

Wow.. loading time is nice now. I like it a lot (black theme). Looks much cleaner and more crisp.
Nice improvement!
Same buggies as already said in the topic, when using side scroll (a/z) and I select the z the screen seems to break up a bit. Also don't have Z in my phonebook.
And yeah, the B of 'Back' is a bit too far to the left, but that seems more like a skinning thingy.
Other than that it's working great so far!

syrguy1969 said:
Can we use the themes we made for the previous version, or do we have to start from scratch?
Love the app by the way!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I understand correctly you have to start from scratch because a lot has changed for the skinning.
New skinning has much more options and can be much more customized as far as I know. Also has gradients done with color codes rather than images.
Haven't tried it out yet (the skinning) but this is what I've read here and there.

I thought I had seen that somewhere as well...that sucks, I just got to the point I made a couple skins I like (for me, that is quite the accomplishment LOL)!!!!

I have a suggestion to make it even faster for some cases.
It seems you do a lot more processing than necessary to activate the PocketCM window on launch if it's already open.
If PocketCM is already running, switching to PocketCM from a task manager is much quicker than launching the .exe again. So maybe you can optimize your launch code to look for an existing instance earlier in your code and active it if it's already running.

TalynOne said:
I have a suggestion to make it even faster for some cases.
It seems you do a lot more processing than necessary to activate the PocketCM window on launch if it's already open.
If PocketCM is already running, switching to PocketCM from a task manager is much quicker than launching the .exe again. So maybe you can optimize your launch code to look for an existing instance earlier in your code and active it if it's already running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's already working like that.

Switching ATT Fuze HW Keyboard with an unlocked Touch Pro Keyboard

Does anybody know how to change the HW keyboard on a Fuze with an unlocked Touch Pro keyboard? Here is a website selling the HW Keyboard:
http://www.gsm4world.us/shop/touch-raphael-inner-keyboard-p-2161.html

i would imagine you would start at the screws under the door, look around in GOOGLE though, because im also interested in this
PROS--TAB, CTRL, etc buttons
CONS--no windows button, i like how the numbers are arranged on the fuze keypad.
things to think about here.
let us know about your findings, this will also void your warranty

Don't quote me on this but I'm *fairly* certain that there is *no* disassembly required to change the keyboard... If it's like my Tilt was (and I believe it is, from looking at the replacement picture) there is absolutely no need to remove anything... The replacement keyboard has a self-adhesive backing to it and is in several layers. You have to *carefully* peal away the old keyboard (don't worry if you lose a few buttons off the old one - you're pitching it anyhow) and make sure you get *all* layers (including the last black rubber layer that's sticky). You'll know you're all the way done when you're looking at bare circuit board with a bunch of little circle looking things. Peal off the backing on the new one, install, done. I'm pretty sure. But not certain.

mybikegoes200 said:
Don't quote me on this but I'm *fairly* certain that there is *no* disassembly required to change the keyboard... If it's like my Tilt was (and I believe it is, from looking at the replacement picture) there is absolutely no need to remove anything... The replacement keyboard has a self-adhesive backing to it and is in several layers. You have to *carefully* peal away the old keyboard (don't worry if you lose a few buttons off the old one - you're pitching it anyhow) and make sure you get *all* layers (including the last black rubber layer that's sticky). You'll know you're all the way done when you're looking at bare circuit board with a bunch of little circle looking things. Peal off the backing on the new one, install, done. I'm pretty sure. But not certain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While that would work for an identical keyboard, we need to remove those sensor points you were trying to describe. Otherwise the keys will be different, but the actions will remain the same.

I'm sure the keys can be changed via a simple cab as they are not hard set.

D3TH METAL said:
I'm sure the keys can be changed via a simple cab as they are not hard set.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not just talking about software remapping...I am talking about Hardware remapping seeing as though the Fuze and Unlocked Touch Pro have 2 different keyboard layout.

I'm going to be as gentle as possible...
The circuit board beneath the keys is *IDENTICAL*. Additionally, the key location, size, and placement is *IDENTICAL*. That said, it should be a mere matter of replacing the keyPAD (that is the little plastic keys that are attached to several layers of rubber and self-adhesive) and using a different key mapping via Advanced Config or some similar tool.

gramsey1911 said:
I am not just talking about software remapping...I am talking about Hardware remapping seeing as though the Fuze and Unlocked Touch Pro have 2 different keyboard layout.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. That can be done via a registry change of 1 number It has the different layout because of that registry edit. It's no different hardware wise.

i mean its a really cool idea.. but compare the TP keyboard to the FUZE keyboard. i honestly think it is better. better shortcuts, they can be remapped using xcsdm's button mod.. and a start button to =] plus, just the basic FN>(shortcut) like what im saying is there are more symbols on he HW keyboard, you dont have to hit FN> Space to aquire some basic symbols that you have right there instead.
and btw i remapped my CAPS button on my fuze to become CTRL, seeing there is no use for CAPS (or TAB a that matter) since you can just hit shift twice and it does the same... kind of retarded on at&t's part in my opinion.. i dont think they added a ctrl button because theyre trying to dumb-down america. haha just my theory
EDIT
..then again, im just rambling.. because i still think it would be cool to have the stock keypad.. do IT gramsey!!! I WANNA SEE

I'm interested in this also. Can't stand not having a tab and control key.
If anybody makes this change, do post pics and install instructions.
I tried looking around for "peeling" off the keyboard but couldn't find any.

im pretty sure the buttons pop off, just like on a laptop

The link for the hardware Touch pro keyboard is in post 1. I stumbled upon it looking for extra parts for the fuze/touch pro.
@everyone
I ordered it and I should have it in a couple of days...I will post pics when I get it done
modem_man said:
I'm interested in this also. Can't stand not having a tab and control key.
If anybody makes this change, do post pics and install instructions.
I tried looking around for "peeling" off the keyboard but couldn't find any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Alright..
well i got it.
its a little bit more technical than you might think. you need to void the warranty for this.
look
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
it looks to me like you need to take it apart and put it in holes in little nipples (hehe ) inside the phones housing

So is it possible to just peel of the fuze keyboard and replace it with the TP keybord without taking off the adhesive.
zachthemaster said:
Alright..
well i got it.
its a little bit more technical than you might think. you need to void the warranty for this.
look
it looks to me like you need to take it apart and put it in holes in little nipples (hehe ) inside the phones housing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

no, i think the little holes insert into the housing and then they close into eachother

Zacht....thanks for the pics.
Guess I'll wait until the warranty ends on the phone before I attempt it.
If you decide to go ahead and change it out, do post your experience and the difficulty level for changing the keyboard.
Thanks.

i might be getting a touch pro soon so if i do ill do it =]
maybe someone else could give it a shot?

Any idea if this might work with the Verizon HTC Touch Pro? VZW, in their infinite wizdom, has put an arrow inbetween the N amd M keys.
I'm looking at a photo of the VZW phone, and it doesn't look like it has as many buttons. For example the top row is 1234567890. There's no - or =, as appear in the photo of the potential replacement.
Fingers crossed.

I could be wrong but the Verizon TP only has 48 keys, while ATT, Sprint, Alltel versions have 57 keys. That is another thing that those smartguys at Verizon screwed up with their version of the Touch Pro.

gramsey1911 said:
I could be wrong but the Verizon TP only has 48 keys, while ATT, Sprint, Alltel versions have 57 keys. That is another thing that those smartguys at Verizon screwed up with their version of the Touch Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's definitely fewer keys. The question is if under the keyboard if the electronics are the same. If they are, might a replacement keyboard work after doing registry edits to remap the keys?
I can't imagine this is the case, but I guy can hope...
If there are only 10 keys across the top, but the other carriers have 12, I'd think that the contact points on the electronics must be different, but who knows.

Yes, another TF3D question....

I get my X1a tomorrow and I have the following questions that I was unable to find after massive reading of many posts.
1. Is TF3D running and stable on X1?
2. I understand landscape mode is available now? Stable?
3. Can you run TF3D as a standalone interface versus running it as a panel, and I assume this makes it run much smoother (since I'm reading that panels consume a lot of power).
4. Can someone point me to or post a pic of the TF3D dialer and incoming call screen (TOUCH-IT-BLACKSTONE-DIALER to be exact). It does replace the hiddeous little incoming WM call screen right?
5. What is the difference between the MANILA TouchFlo and Blackstone? That's where the confusion is coming in.
6. Are there ANY limitations running TF3D on Xperia, I don't want to loose any functionality of my Xperia, so is there any part/function that doesn't work with TF3D?
7. Where can I find the end all be all step by step instructions for installing the most stable and functional TF3D? Is it the TF3D Blackstone (Touch-IT)?
Than you in advance.

yea, same here, im getting my x1 tmw, and i had gotten used to the touchflo 3d interface... however, one thing i absolutely HATE about touchflo is that it forces you to use htcaudio manager, it is absolute piece of junk when it comes to playlist and organizing the music, i just wish somehow and someone is skilled enough to tweak it and use something else to play music

Yeah I have an iPhone right now. I've always used WM devices before and I love my iPhone for many reasons, but I hate it for just as many reasons as well. I'm fed up with Apple even with a jailbroken iPhone I'm tired of the lack of BASIC stuff. I want an open phone again. So I'm going back to WM. I'm really going to just test out this SEX1 to see if I like it It's going to be hard leaving my iPhone after I got so used to it. I've always hated the SEX1 Panel interface, it's garbage in my opinion. Even worse there are like 12 panels. That really sucks. A poor attempt at putting a frontend on WM. HTC has always been on the right track when it comes to a WM frontend so seeing it ported to the SEX1 is great. I just hate unstable equipment so I'm not willing to risk stability for looks just yet. Hence the 50 million questions.

derrickonline said:
I get my X1a tomorrow and I have the following questions that I was unable to find after massive reading of many posts.
1. Is TF3D running and stable on X1?
2. I understand landscape mode is available now? Stable?
3. Can you run TF3D as a standalone interface versus running it as a panel, and I assume this makes it run much smoother (since I'm reading that panels consume a lot of power).
4. Can someone point me to or post a pic of the TF3D dialer and incoming call screen (TOUCH-IT-BLACKSTONE-DIALER to be exact). It does replace the hiddeous little incoming WM call screen right?
5. What is the difference between the MANILA TouchFlo and Blackstone? That's where the confusion is coming in.
6. Are there ANY limitations running TF3D on Xperia, I don't want to loose any functionality of my Xperia, so is there any part/function that doesn't work with TF3D?
7. Where can I find the end all be all step by step instructions for installing the most stable and functional TF3D? Is it the TF3D Blackstone (Touch-IT)?
Than you in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. yes
2. only a workaround for now, but I guess it will fixed VERY soon
3. yes
4. sorry, use search an you'll find It. Look for yota dialer also, very nice. Anyway, yes again, they replace the ugly wm one
5. manila and tflo3d are the same thing. ManilaHD is for wvga (as xperia) resolution but it's the same interface
6. As said, landscape for now, but I guess it will fixed VERY soon
7. Yes. Go to rom subforum, start reading about flashing and then have a look to itje rom (my favourite ) or something else that includes tflo3d... All custom rom are pretty mature now
and... yes panels sucks for me also

derrickonline said:
Yeah I have an iPhone right now. I've always used WM devices before and I love my iPhone for many reasons, but I hate it for just as many reasons as well. I'm fed up with Apple even with a jailbroken iPhone I'm tired of the lack of BASIC stuff. I want an open phone again. So I'm going back to WM. I'm really going to just test out this SEX1 to see if I like it It's going to be hard leaving my iPhone after I got so used to it. I've always hated the SEX1 Panel interface, it's garbage in my opinion. Even worse there are like 12 panels. That really sucks. A poor attempt at putting a frontend on WM. HTC has always been on the right track when it comes to a WM frontend so seeing it ported to the SEX1 is great. I just hate unstable equipment so I'm not willing to risk stability for looks just yet. Hence the 50 million questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im using an iphone right now too... after 4 months with it, besides the touch sensitivity and the audio player, i hated every other aspects of it; weak 3g reception, insufficient memory causing the programs to exit, no multi-program running, etc
im coming from symbian to wm to iphone, while i like symbian very much, but i think wm is probably the best fit for me

Thanks guap!

Thanks guap! But what do you mean by landscape is a workaround? I assume it either works or doesn't work. Since it appears to work, what part about it is a workaround?

I mean this -> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=476163
read about his limitations... It's a very good work but in fact is a daemon that poll landscape state triggering an action screen rendered by an external program. Complicated.
A proper version will be a manila with embedded landscape support. We should have it in 24h for blackstone according to dutthroy announcements in blackstone forum, and then hope even on our xperia as they are very similar devices

Hmm
I also have been using an iPhone for almost 2 years now. Just switched to the Xperia 2 weeks ago. as a hater of Apple I thought this device would make my life easier. On the whole it's nicer, but simple things like the touch sensitivity of the screen make a huge difference and "pressing" is somewhat difficult on the Xperia after using the extremely responsive "touch" interface of the iphone. My iPhone was used mostly for music and it does that much nicer than my xperia. (Why does the music stop when i press the power button to turn screen off on xperia?) also the email is much more fnctional because wifi switching and email checking seems to work much nicer on the iPhone without killing the battery. I have had to disable wifi on my xperia and disable autochecking email just to make the battery last a day.
All that being said, having installed the TouchFlo3D cab, the phone is muuuuuuch less responsive and the "touch" sensitivity of the TF3D is much worse than even the standard interface. (Pressing "comms" in the settings tab sometimes doesnt work for me if it's already highlighted after aving just exited the comms manager.)

tweak the pressure treshold to fit your needs with schap's advanced config. BUT READ carefully before do it.
Winmobile is customizable, we are not apple

guap said:
I mean this -> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=476163
read about his limitations... It's a very good work but in fact is a daemon that poll landscape state triggering an action screen rendered by an external program. Complicated.
A proper version will be a manila with embedded landscape support. We should have it in 24h for blackstone according to dutthroy announcements in blackstone forum, and then hope even on our xperia as they are very similar devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please show me where. I can't find it. Thank's for some happy news today when I noticed a crack in my casing :-(

alias_neo said:
My iPhone was used mostly for music and it does that much nicer than my xperia. (Why does the music stop when i press the power button to turn screen off on xperia?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats not normal ... of course u can turn the screen off and listen to music at the same time ..

After I've updated my firmware, TF3D is very smooth on my xperia. No issues at all. And also I have it as a panel. No crashes yet.

Paitor said:
Please show me where. I can't find it. Thank's for some happy news today when I noticed a crack in my casing :-(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
look at this
duttythroy said:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
link to Dutty's HD XTREME rom thread (Blackstone) -> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=483822
He's porting this beauty to xperia (there are very similar, shouldn't be a big deal for him)

I Know
Amanox said:
thats not normal ... of course u can turn the screen off and listen to music at the same time ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeh, I didn't think it was normal, that's why it annoys me so much. I end up leaving it with the screen on in my pocket until it times out, but then it ends up getting pressed accidently.
Anyone know of a possible cause/solution? I listen to music every day and I really want it back to normal with power button turning screen off but music still plays.
Thank.

MultiTouch Exists (no hardware needed) with video

Take a look: http://www.fuzemobility.com/multitouch-exists-now-without-new-hardware-or-software/
On a Windows device pressing two points leads to a key press of a point in between those points. That means for games you can create a virtual key in between the two points that is mapped as pressing both buttons. It works right now on your device. Just press down with a sharp object (like two styluses) on two points and the point in the middle will be 'pressed'. It's not very easy to do consistently but it does work.
This means games can be created for multitouch as long as virtual keys are mapped for dual key presses.

You can see that here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2806409&postcount=126
When you drag our finger across the screen, theres a little yelow dot that follows your finger. But if you press two areas of the screen at the same time, it shows the dot on the middle, you can even drag your fingers, the dot always stays in the middle.
I just dont see anyway that this can be used properly. At least in flash... :/

If you check the video of the Nokia multitouch in action what you do with it is create virtual keys between the keys and then a game like Guitar Hero is possible...

Not dishing the results, but thats basically a (very small) hidden key in the middle of those two keys.
Its also very hard to use in a smaller scale and easy to miss...

you just need to offset the keys. Think of a 3 button version of guitar hero as a start - make the 3 keys into a triangle at the bottom so the virtual key presses would definitely be in dead space. That should work even on a smaller screen.

you can't count this as a multitouch feature, because it makes a line between the points you pressed, it doesnt just move your touch to the center because you're confusing your device, so using this method is tricky. check it out with omniano (piano app)

Check out these two links here in our forums for some indepth discussion on this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=486268
and
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=489147

Did a small test in flash to see my point:
Control:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Just run the EXE in your PPC. Press ENTER to exit the application.
As you can see its not easy (at least on my qvga) to press both buttons at the same time, and its much easier to press the hidden button on the middle of the buttons.

sschrupp said:
Check out these two links here in our forums for some indepth discussion on this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=486268
and
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=489147
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the first link is noted in the fuzemobility article. The second one I willt est out tonight on the HD. It sounds like it works. The downside is the lack of precision required. Simple games can easily have multitouch without a problem (less keys makes the process easier since there are less points of itnersection and therefore you get larger virtual keys). I like where these projects are headed...

twolf said:
Did a small test in flash to see my point:
Control:
Just run the EXE in your PPC. Press ENTER to exit the application.
As you can see its not easy (at least on my qvga) to press both the button at the same time, and its much easier to press the hidden button on the middle of the buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The layout is a little off I think just because there are too many buttons in the same configuration so the points of intersection are too close. So left and C places you on top of A...
can you try to remove the dpad and just leave ABC in a triangle? The virtual presses would be in between again but the spacing of a triangle is a lot better. I can see that config worknig for guitar hero or a gsen game where you don't need a dpad (just buttons). The virtual buttons should be as big as the buttons themselves as long sa there's no overlap.

twolf said:
Did a small test in flash to see my point:
Control:
Just run the EXE in your PPC. Press ENTER to exit the application.
As you can see its not easy (at least on my qvga) to press both the button at the same time, and its much easier to press the hidden button on the middle of the buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the buttons need to be arranged in such a way as to allow the virtual buttons to have enough space between them. That's why in the Morphgear skin in the link above he has the buttons arranged the way they are. And of course the smaller the screen and/or resolution the harder it would be I imagine.
bugsykoosh said:
the first link is noted in the fuzemobility article. The second one I willt est out tonight on the HD. It sounds like it works. The downside is the lack of precision required. Simple games can easily have multitouch without a problem (less keys makes the process easier since there are less points of itnersection and therefore you get larger virtual keys). I like where these projects are headed...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Morphgear skin works great for many games, at least on a WVGA device like the Touch HD. It's still not perfect, but at least the concept-of-proof shows that it can be done.
Like you said, where these projects are headed is where the excitement comes in. Eventually it's conceivable that we'll have an application that'll allow us to use the g-sensor and the multi-touch virtual buttons seamlessly to do so much more!

I just did it for a test, didnt even created commands for the dpad+button actions.
Its in flash, so, unless the game you want is in flash too, theres no way of using this...
I can post the source-code anyway...

twolf said:
I just did it for a test, didnt even created commands for the dpad+button actions.
Its in flash, so, unless the game you want is in flash too, theres no way of using this...
I can post the source-code anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the proof of concept is great so people can develop off of it. Would you mind sharing the flash itself (I couldn't develop a thing ) But I think if it is proven that this works then games can be created using this method. so some games could just use this (Tetris with a left/right and rotate button for example) or guitar hero (three buttons for now) and other games that use the gsen if needed for a dpad...

Sure, here it is... I converted it to Flash CS3.

twolf said:
Sure, here it is... I converted it to Flash CS3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry - it's too advanc for me Would you mind taking the first flash you did with the dpad and just removing the dpad and making the virtual keys between the ABC larger so that it is more likely to get a hit?

Guys, not to belittle the work going on here, but we've had "calculated multitouch" working for a while. That video is hardly the best example of what's been achieved so far.
If you want to make any comments or contribution, drop a line here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=486268
V​

Sure, the FLA is the source-code.
Made it portrait also.
---edit---
vijay555, I saw those (great) examples, I was just saying that its not very easy to use, and nothing compares to the real multitouch feel.
And again, great work on your excellent apps.

It's not exactly multitouch, it happens with every touch surface I own (mousepads and touch screens). It's more like a side effect of the surface getting confused by having more than one touch at a time. It's been an annoyence to me for years. hehe
But I'm glad that people want to make it useful. Take a "bug" of sorts and turn it into a feature... Only at XDA. I can't wait for a new app or new touch.dll that will extend features somehow based on this.

vijay555 said:
Guys, not to belittle the work going on here, but we've had "calculated multitouch" working for a while. That video is hardly the best example of what's been achieved so far.
If you want to make any comments or contribution, drop a line here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=486268
V​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Screen size is a big difference here - on the HD it is a lot easier than on a Fuze...there's also more flex to the HD's screen. I think that your keyboard is great and revolutionary by all means but on a Touch Pro it could never happen because the level of precision simply doesn't exist (the virtual keys are too close). Simple apps can be made using multitouch and no one has developed them yet so hopefully the guitar hero type games will be made...

I posted a comment on FuzeMobility and I'll copy it here.
Vijay, that's impressive looking, but is along the same lines as I mention in my comment, correct? Or, are you truly using the dual touch capability of the capacitive touch panel?
I see this as an interupt of the traditional cooridinate recognition system, not true multitouch. Yes, you touch two points simultaneously and get feedback, however, you’re simply providing a simulated, broader surface that the touch interpreter is seeing as a giant sylus or finger.
In order for multitouch to work on a resistive screen you need to be able to select a point on either side of the screen and manipulate the coordinates directly related to that area. Selecting the center of a double press like is shown in the video is simply the phone interpretting the input as one big thumb.
Until two completely unrelated sets of X,Y input can be pulled from the touch panel, you’re not really getting multitouch. This can be used just like the game video shown if you place the ‘dots’ smartly on the screen, but this method won’t yield any thing resembling the multitouch on an iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse