Database Users

32GB, X7510 replacement early 2009?

Some recent unconnected bits of information on the web have got me thinking that sooner or later there will be another iteration of the Athena series, an x7520 if you will.
First, on Engadget/Engadgetmobile, there was the blog on
How would you change HTC's Advantage X7510?
http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/08/how-would-you-change-htcs-advantage-x7510/
Then there are the regular posts about new HTC projects with new code names, for instance, HTC QUAR100:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/09/08/the-htc-quar100-a-north-american-exclusive/
Then finally, even though it hasn't been announced, Samsung is now making 1.0 inch form factor SSD's, and they are not sata, but pata devices (like the 1.0 microdrives). The largest is 32gb, which trumps the x7510's 16gb:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productList.do?fmly_id=161
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=161&partnum=MCCOE32GZMPP
I'd wager that a successor will be announced around the CES show next year.
All I can say, is that it better have great video performance and the joystick back.
What do you think?

What do I think ???
I don't think there would be any replacement for the HTC Advantage. Why? It is not selling well because of their stupid decision to remove the buttons and joy stick control. Not to mention, the only thing they changed is the keyboard and flash memory. No provider wants to carry it. The only phone operator I read offering the X7510 is TMobile Germany. Even at the country of it's origin, it barely made news when released. The only thing that will save the X7510 at this point is if HTC gave it to phone operators at a very cheap price. Which I suggest they should do now rather than let it sit in their storage due to better models coming out with better specs.
I am sorry to admit this... but I think this is the end for our babies with 5 inch screens. Which I hope won't be the case. I believe a better move on their part is to update the HTC Universal.

I think you have some valid points.
Many of the comments on 'How you would change the x7510' on the Engadget thread mentioned lack of joystick and OK buttons. Major mistake on HTC's parts.
So really there are three options:
HTC abandons the format
HTC introduces one more model with 32GB SSD, joystick or not.
HTC introduces a similar form factor, but totally new design.
I believe that they will at least do the 32GB option, as they don't have to change any hardware.

I would prefer the following changes atleast.
1. More slimmer device.
2. Change the old PXA270 processor to PXA310.
3. Newer phones come with 256MB RAM and 512MB ROM.
Hopefully they will change those too in the new model.
4. Windows Mobile 7
6. Support 800*480 Resolution.
--Srini

Heres what I would improve:
1. Remove the buttons on the face, and make the screen larger (stretch in to the corners of the device. Put the removed buttons on the sides or top of the device.
2. Higher res screen 800x480 ?
3. Larger microdrive, 64GB atleast.
4. Full size SD-card lot, maybe even two.
5. Make the device slimmer.
6. Slide out keyboard (portrait).
7. Newer generation and faster CPU (800MHz ?) / GPU (NVidia ?) combo.
8. 300MB RAM (atleast)
9. 512MB ROM (atleast)
10. Better camera with atleast VGA @ 30 FPS recording.
11. Make a docking station for the device in portrait. With the headphone out and USB host in front and the rest on the back. Dont forget support to charge a second battery.
So what do you guys think ?

1. Put vibrate back in.
2. Change screen aspect ratio from 4:3 to 16:9 (would make it easier to hold like a phone and would give us full-page-width browsing, video)
3. Give us a private speaker so we don't have to carry BT all the time.
4. Put the buttons and joystick back.
5. Include chipset for WiMax.

Yeah what he said plus what I said makes it the almost perfect PDA.

there is something in the works that i know of but i dont know if u would consider this a athena successor. cant give details though.

Now why did you do that ? Common tell us something ! Just anything !

StashCompInc said:
Now why did you do that ? Common tell us something ! Just anything !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
problem is i dont know if u would consider it a athena successor. it doesnt have a microdrive and the screen isn't as big. sorry cant give more details.

Touch HD ?, or is it the Omni your talking about ? None of them are up to the task.

StashCompInc said:
Touch HD ?, or is it the Omni your talking about ? None of them are up to the task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope. not any one of those. these devices the public doesnt know about.

Well then thats something to look forward to.

Nope the magic words "screen isn't as big" and I loose all interest.
The biggest appeal to me for the Athena is the 5 inch screen.
I would however like it slimmer and a full size sd slot.
With the joystick back, a slimmer unit and a full size sd slot it would be near the perfect device for me.

I don't think HTC will simply abandon Athena form factor. For one thing it looks that MIDs (Mobile Internet Devices) will be a popular thing next year and for me Athena is a true MID and for now the best MID.
So what I'm hoping for is that HTC will come up with a new MID device sometime in 2009, that could be a successor to Athena, hopefully with WM7 (I have a silly idea that WM7 will be released together with Win7 sometime in June/July) and with 5" WVGA screen, new faster CPU and more storage...

Pawel062 said:
nope. not any one of those. these devices the public doesnt know about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pawel,
I know Blackstone is not quite a replacement for the 5 inch screen, but it has FM radio, and faster HSDPA speed. I'm quite keen to go for this. However, if there is something better in the pipeline, I might wait.
I like Blackstone's form factor, but was disappointed with its mere 3.8 inch screen. Of course there are also other disappointments such as the lack of joystick, tv-out, small built-in storage, but the biggest disappointment is the small size.
I hope the replacement model that you have been told retains the 5 inch screen, latest HSDPA, wimax, have embedded earpiece, and similar form factor as blackstone (ie slim and light). Am I likely to be disappointed?

eaglesteve said:
Pawel,
I know Blackstone is not quite a replacement for the 5 inch screen, but it has FM radio, and faster HSDPA speed. I'm quite keen to go for this. However, if there is something better in the pipeline, I might wait.
I like Blackstone's form factor, but was disappointed with its mere 3.8 inch screen. Of course there are also other disappointments such as the lack of joystick, tv-out, small built-in storage, but the biggest disappointment is the small size.
I hope the replacement model that you have been told retains the 5 inch screen, latest HSDPA, wimax, have embedded earpiece, and similar form factor as blackstone (ie slim and light). Am I likely to be disappointed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u enjoy the blackstone. i would go for it. the one im talking about doesnt have all the specs u wanted btw.
edit: btw i want to get the blackstone so there really is nothing too much better in the near term coming.

Pawel062 said:
if u enjoy the blackstone. i would go for it. the one im talking about doesnt have all the specs u wanted btw.
edit: btw i want to get the blackstone so there really is nothing too much better in the near term coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the HTC 8290? If the specs are correct, it's like the Touch HD, except it's got WiMax and TV-out. The lack of TV-out on the Touch HD is a big disappointment to me. I would have bought the HD instantaneously had it had this feature. If the 8290 does have it, and has both WiMax and HSPA, it seems very attractive to me.
Regarding the Advantage, I believe they will keep the form factor because as stated above, MIDs are coming and the Advantage really is pocketable and light enough compared to many other MID offerings. If I were HTC I'd wait for WM 7, and probably use the Tegra APX2500 processor.

Pawel062 said:
if u enjoy the blackstone. i would go for it. the one im talking about doesnt have all the specs u wanted btw.
edit: btw i want to get the blackstone so there really is nothing too much better in the near term coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pawel,
Thanks for your info. I guess I would go for Blackstone as an interim device while waiting for the ultimate Athena replacement. I thought I could live with a 4 inch (and 3.8 inch is close to that) screen, but after making up a prototype and played with it, I don't think the screen is big enough yet. May be 4.5 at the very minimum. I had played with the iPhone and just don't like the small screen. Too much zooming in and out when surfing the net and that drives me nut after a while.
Sigh... May be Athena as it is now is still the best, even when compared to Blackstone.

eaglesteve said:
Pawel,
Thanks for your info. I guess I would go for Blackstone as an interim device while waiting for the ultimate Athena replacement. I thought I could live with a 4 inch (and 3.8 inch is close to that) screen, but after making up a prototype and played with it, I don't think the screen is big enough yet. May be 4.5 at the very minimum. I had played with the iPhone and just don't like the small screen. Too much zooming in and out when surfing the net and that drives me nut after a while.
Sigh... May be Athena as it is now is still the best, even when compared to Blackstone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea, i dont mind the 3.8in screen. i have the iphone 3g and have gotten used to the zooming bc of the multitouch. afaik, there isnt anything with a screen bigger than that of the blackstones coming out anytime soon unless theres something in the works that i dont know about.

torn between X1, OMNIA and Touch Pro

X1 is definitely going to be released in October in my country; but I'm still undecided about which one of them I will buy, here are what I like and dislike/less like with each one of them
X1
+ the best hardware design of the 3, I like the curved slide, I like those LEDs, I like the 3.5mm jack, I like the memory slot and finally I like that it is the most packed with hardware buttons than 'virtual buttons' found in the others.
+ the screen size/res
+ best video recording
+/- 384 final RAM which is still yet to be seen about the performance
+/- I like the panels, but IMO in their current condition they feel somewhat raw and lack of polish; the poker style stacked panels are useless and a waste of resources they should have been created something more functional for example like windows XP's filmstrip folder viewing style in which we could be able to switch between panels without having to press the panels button -which feel like unnecessary 'back' button-
- and with my previous point they should have add an accelerometer, so that other than finger swiping between panels (ala touch flo) perhaps we should be able to shake the X1 to switch between panels. (oh come on SE, even W910 had this, why not your flagship?)
- I'm not convinced as to whether SE has done a good job in reshaping the default WinMo UI or not, in fact based on previews, I didn't see anything has been done to it, they (SE) just babbling over and over and over about the panels
- I'm also worried about the pre-installed software, there are no info about anything else than Opera and handago client (which are quite useless in my country due to slow, somewhat unstable and rather expensive 3G cost) that will come with the phone, and it caught my eye that they integrated contacts in multimedia panels! Isn't it weird?
- rather small onboard storage
Touch Pro
+ Touch Flo 3D, IMO the only solution capable of rivaling Iphone's multitouch UI now in WinMo
+ somewhat more convincing keyboard
+ community support
+ 'hidden features' ----> which I'm doubting it will also exist in X1
- lack of 3.5mm jack
- glossy design
- 4:3 display
- slightly heavier than X1
- no stutter button for the camera
- ugly video recording res
- I''m not fond of the HTC's wheel button.
Omnia
+ sleek design
+ hapstick mode, anything full touch screen capable phone should have this feature, how come those phone makers designers didn't think about it
+ 5MP camera with face detection, smiley detection, geo tagging support out of the box
+ a quite good UI, including the reshaped default WinMo UI, it may not as appealing as Touch Flo 3D, but it is at least functioning well
+ 16GB storage + expansion, holy ****, this set the standard for the industry!
+/- largest display size between the 3, I've seen people bashing it res, but my experience with SE P900 was that the res are OKAY, in fact I can browse quite comfortably with my SE M600i which is smaller in size and display res compared to P900 *edit* I checked and realized that I was wrong about the display res in P900 compared to M600i, the M600i is more pixels packed, but still of course way behind X1, but my point is that those res aren't that bad like what many have criticized it.
- no physical keyboard
- no STYLUS slot lol, unless they have a screen with minimum 5 inch in diagonal never forget stylus!
- the display is said to be somewhat poor under sunlight
- only 128MB RAM
- somewhat just an average optical mouse/joystick pad with no d-pad capable like in X1
any suggestion? comments? I would like to hear things from those who have experience with TP and Omnia.
is there/will there be any device that could combine those 3 strength before next year?

You first must know, what you want to do with. Then the first decisionis with or without hardware keyboard.
I wouldn't do again without. In each software you have to make inputs like writing webadresses, logins or equal you loose a lot of the screen, if you don't have an hardware keyboard. For this reason, I would not do without.
If you don't need a keyboard compare the omnia with the new HTC touch hd. This has a bigger (3,8") and more powerfull (WVGA) screen.
With the omnia samsung went only the half way -the low resolution is not the future... But it is faster in some feelings, as WVGA. If you once had a VGA/WVGA, you will not do without any more. This is the opinion of ALL the people I know, who changed from QVGA to VGA or WVGA.
The touch pro may be not so bad, but for me the display is much too small. I am used to WVGA since a good year now and do not want to miss. The 160 Pixel more length are more than much usefull - I recognize it every day. Even 3" WVGA is a bit smaller than 2,8" VGA you feel the difference clearly.
For that reason the X1 is the only device on the market, I could buy. Never Toshiba again, because they have absolutely no custom service.

Or you could wait for the HTC HD Pro - the HD with a keyboard

probably will be too long to wait, and I haven't hear about HTC make that?

jah said:
Or you could wait for the HTC HD Pro - the HD with a keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing like that announced so far...
But knowing HTC they'll make it just to screw with me

If they were to suddenly announce a HD Pro, my Touch Pro might not be in once piece.

I don't guess HTC will make a touch HD Pro -to big, to heavy for their customers. But if they do so, I would think of buying it, even after having bought the X1. You know:
The better is the enemy of the good

Omnia comes with an awesome camera... but the most disappointing thing is its stylus and no slot to put it in. But it definitely has no comparison with Touch Pro and Xperia - not just 'cos of no keyboard, but because it lacks the power that those two sets carry - way too low RAM in comparison to them.
Furthermore, Omnia is limited to 16 GB Maximum. Both Touch Pro and Xperia can be expanded upto a whooping 32 GB - and not to mention since it is Micro SD, you can swap cards, put it easily in a card-reader and use as needed and so on.
Samsung Omnia is an extremely impressive set, but it definitely fails to impress when you bring in Touch Pro and Xperia into the ring. So... don't even consider that.

Touch HD is going to be the iPhone killer - full touch screen with improved touch sensitivity than Touch Pro and probably carrying far more features than the Touch Pro. The screen of the Touch HD goes head on with Xperia, but it leaves Xperia behind when it comes to the Camera as it has a 5 MP camera on its back.
So the question is... Do you want a keyboard on your device? If the answer is not necessary, then you should do be thinking Touch HD VS Xperia otherwise stick with Touch Pro VS Xperia.

There is no such thing as an "iPhone Killer". I don't know how often I have read "XYZ phone, the next iPhone Killer?" - and the answer is always "no".
It's not because the iPhone is so much better then other phones, it's because it has a superb marketing and some stylish gadgets included while Windows Mobile devices don't.
It's the same for iPod. There are for sure other good MP3 players out there, but everyone knows iPod.
So please let's stay away from this in this Xperia thread, because the iPhone got already killed as far as I'm concerned.

Touch HD vs Xperia
The comparison has been moved here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=430938
Read and then cast your vote.
If you want a comparison between Touch Pro and Xperia... then go here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=430937
Best Regards.
Salman Khalid.

foo said:
There is no such thing as an "iPhone Killer". I don't know how often I have read "XYZ phone, the next iPhone Killer?" - and the answer is always "no".
It's not because the iPhone is so much better then other phones, it's because it has a superb marketing and some stylish gadgets included while Windows Mobile devices don't.
It's the same for iPod. There are for sure other good MP3 players out there, but everyone knows iPod.
So please let's stay away from this in this Xperia thread, because the iPhone got already killed as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually i didn't mean it like that. Sorry for making it sound so. By 'iPhone Killer' i tend to imply a phone that can be considered comparable to the iPhone... one that gives the user a choice.
I have an iPhone and have been using it since over an year now, and i can pretty much say that it definitely will stand its ground in the market - well maybe its sales will reduce and all, but it'll stay.

@msalmank
I totally agree with you: The iPhone has its place and will stay.
One thing I'd like to add to this comparison between Touch HD/Pro and Xperia:
The Touch Pro has a weak 3G reception. I still wonder why this problem is never mentioned in such comparisons. Unfortunately we do not have enough information concerning the Xperia and reception quality, but it should be something well considered.
What is a 3,8'' Touchscreen worth if you have no signal to display the required information on it?
As far as I'm concerned, one of the basic features regarding a smartphone is still "connectivity". Weak connectivity = crappy phone.

foo said:
@msalmank
I totally agree with you: The iPhone has its place and will stay.
One thing I'd like to add to this comparison between Touch HD/Pro and Xperia:
The Touch Pro has a weak 3G reception. I still wonder why this problem is never mentioned in such comparisons. Unfortunately we do not have enough information concerning the Xperia and reception quality, but it should be something well considered.
What is a 3,8'' Touchscreen worth if you have no signal to display the required information on it?
As far as I'm concerned, one of the basic features regarding a smartphone is still "connectivity". Weak connectivity = crappy phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touch HD will be better than Touch Pro. We already have larger screen, more pixels on the camera, greater sensitivity on the touch screen... and so we can only wait an see if 3G receipt will be any better or not. But thank you for this, i've added this in the comparison above as #7...
And yep... the iPhone will definitely stay. Even i'm considering not to sell of my iPhone and keep it as an iPod Touch or backup phone with tons of games loaded on it...

msalmank said:
Omnia comes with an awesome camera... but the most disappointing thing is its stylus and no slot to put it in. But it definitely has no comparison with Touch Pro and Xperia - not just 'cos of no keyboard, but because it lacks the power that those two sets carry - way too low RAM in comparison to them.
Furthermore, Omnia is limited to 16 GB Maximum. Both Touch Pro and Xperia can be expanded upto a whooping 32 GB - and not to mention since it is Micro SD, you can swap cards, put it easily in a card-reader and use as needed and so on.
Samsung Omnia is an extremely impressive set, but it definitely fails to impress when you bring in Touch Pro and Xperia into the ring. So... don't even consider that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please research again, OMNIA is equipped with onboard 16GB storage, and can still use micro SD....
and by the way, I don't compare the touch hd here, so which one of X1, TP and Omnia that would be the best buy?

nap007 said:
please research again, OMNIA is equipped with onboard 16GB storage, and can still use micro SD....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhh! yes. thank you for correcting me. Samsung Omnia can definitely be carry a Micro SD card, but at the max of 16 GB. So at max it can have 32 GB (considering you have the 16 GB set)
nap007 said:
and by the way, I don't compare the touch hd here, so which one of X1, TP and Omnia that would be the best buy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read and then cast your vote: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=430937 (Touch Pro Vs. Xperia)
Despite Omnia allowing up to 32 GB memory in total, it still falls behind Xperia and Touch Pro. I might however do a comparison - according to my understanding - between Omnia and Xperia later today or tomorrow.
Best Regards.
Salman Khalid

so, I'm back to my original intention, which one to pick between these 3? My points stand still since what I guessed before about X1 appeared to be true -save the rotation button lol-

Bit late to start a petition, but I would have signed it!!!
nap007 said:
so, I'm back to my original intention, which one to pick between these 3? My points stand still since what I guessed before about X1 appeared to be true -save the rotation button lol-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Don't know why the omnia is being dismissed - it has the most powerful processor and I'm not sure the Ram is an issue because of the internal memory has speeded up to the same level. What I would question about HTC and the Sony is the build quality as both of them are in fact out of Htc's factory

I'm currently using an Xperia after 3 months of Touch Pro usage; the things important for me are covered in this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3028394&postcount=25
..as for the Omnia: I haven't even tested it because it has no HW keyboard and it has a low res display -> altogether different type of phones in my opinion..

Touch HD vs. Xperia - A non-professional view

The way i see it... it totally depends on what attracts you more - a no-keyboard slim black iPhone like mobile or a professional looking and metallic keyboard bearing mobile. That alone should determine your choice... but considering you want to go into depth:
1. Xperia has more RAM. Infact almost 100 MB more. Which is simply awesome, especially if you are looking to port heavy games onto the mobile or run tons of software. How much RAM will panels take up is a big question, but keep in mind that if needed you could release the RAM taken up by Panels by disabling them or setting them however you want. (Loading 9 heavy panels will probably take more RAM than keeping 9 basic or default panels)
2. When it comes to Screen, though both have the same resolution, Touch HD gives you a bigger display with its 3.8 inch screen over the 3 inch Xperia screen.
3. In regard to camera, the Touch HD is again ahead of Xperia with a 5 MP camera over the 3.2 MP camera in Xperia. However, if one thing Sony Ericsson knows best, it is its Camera... so i can pretty much say that Xperia's 3.2 MP camera would be enough to take on the Touch HD 5 MP camera. Video recording is in both, and most likely Touch HD will match the recording capabilties in terms of resolution with Xperia - but again Camera quality of Sony is expected to be better. Both devices have Touch Focus as well... but one other thing to note is that Touch HD has no camera flash!
4. Main interface - Touch Flo 3d is superb looking. But Xperia Panels are not behind. Though Touch Flo 3D is shiny and extremely attractive, it lacks big time in customization. With Panels, customization is the key... and with time as developers start releasing new panels, we will probably see some really awesome stuff in terms of functionaity as well looks. Not to mention, the way you switch panel mode (fan, side-by-side, etc.) is nothing short. So if you are one who loves to have the possibility of as much customization as possible, like me, then Xperia wins here. And in my opinion, in terms of functionality and extendibility Xperia again wins here.
5. Battery - Xperia carries a bigger battery than Touch HD. Though how much time each will provide, we can't say for sure at this point...
6. Manufacturer - HTC vs. SE. This is SE's first WinMo device, so concerns arise... but given the fact that HTC was behind in this device's manufacturing as well, i say that we can rely on the device.
7. 3G Reception - Foo, a senior member here at XDA Developers has brought to my attention that Touch Pro suffers from poor 3G reception but another member says that this is not the case and that he doesn't face any such problems on his Pro. Considering that HTC has improved Touch HD in various aspects over the pro - bigger screen, higher resolution, better sensitivity to the touch screen, more powerful camera and so on - we will just have to wait and see if the 3G reception in Touch HD is better than Pro or not. As for Xperia, we'll have to wait and confirm for that when it releases.
8. Accelerometer - The major feature missing from Xperia is the Accelerometer. But other than putting a lid on some possibly cool games, i don't have much concern over this. But of course, here the Xperia is beaten by the Touch HD!
Other than that, basic differences are there... LED indicators on the Xperia, and In Call Recording in Touch HD, but none too major to consider here. (i leaved keyboard out of this as i already put that forward in the first question i asked at the start of this post).
Conclusion: From where I sit, Xperia is a winner with its sexy look (c'mon. it. is. steel!), fully customizable interface (panels), more RAM, Flash on the camera, full stylish qwerty keyboard, and more.
Hope this helps...
And if anyone feels like it, then add to the list anything you want.
Best Regards.
Salman Khalid.

You must have heard htc is the odm behind x1. From the reviews camera seems close to diamond and pro but with touch focus.

sproxy said:
You must have heard htc is the odm behind x1. From the reviews camera seems close to diamond and pro but with touch focus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, i did point that tout in the post above... but HTC had more to do with the hardware from a Win Mo point of view... the Camera is something that SE obviously didn't need help from HTC on.
As for actual comparison of picture quality... we'll know for sure in a few days as to how good Xperia's camera actually is. (one picture over at the Xperiancers blog shows it to be really good)!

msalmank said:
1. Xperia has more RAM. Infact almost 100 MB more. Which is simply awesome, especially if you are looking to port heavy games onto the mobile or run tons of software. How much RAM will panels take up is a big question, but keep in mind that if needed you could release the RAM taken up by Panels by disabling them or setting them however you want. (Loading 9 heavy panels will probably take more RAM than keeping 9 basic or default panels)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246

borce_razor said:
Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This information is outdated. SE increased the RAM in the meanwhile (most likely due to performance issues) up to 384 MByte RAM which is about 100 MByte more then Touch HD has.
But I don't really see both devices in line for comparison, because one has a slide out keyboard and the other one not. This makes a huge difference in usability when it comes to writing and people who are looking for a device with external keyboard really want and need it.
So for most buyers of the Xperia X1 this normally is not only a gimmick like some nice LEDs or better camera, etc - this is really a buy or no-buy decision.
So for me both devices are not comparable, though I voted for the Xperia as it is better concerning my individual requirements.

foo said:
But I don't really see both devices in line for comparison, because one has a slide out keyboard and the other one not. This makes a huge difference in usability when it comes to writing and people who are looking for a device with external keyboard really want and need it.
So for most buyers of the Xperia X1 this normally is not only a gimmick like some nice LEDs or better camera, etc - this is really a buy or no-buy decision.
So for me both devices are not comparable, though I voted for the Xperia as it is better concerning my individual requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason i did the comparison was because both devices have been compared/questioned side-by-side on various forums now. And i did mention, before making a comparison, that: "The way i see it... it totally depends on what attracts you more - a no-keyboard slim black iPhone like mobile or a professional looking and metallic keyboard bearing mobile."

borce_razor said:
Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Foo already pointed out, that page is out-dated. You can do a search in Google on Xperia and 384 MB RAM and you will get tons of news items and blog posts announcing that change in the hardware from a couple of weeks back.

holy ****, I thought this was a double thread!

nap007 said:
holy ****, I thought this was a double thread!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One is comparing Touch HD and the other Touch Pro against Xperia...

Here's another compare http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1469&id2=1117. Still HD is my favourite

As I posted in your other thread, a lot of this information is just wrong. Where did you ever hear the Xperia had almost 400MB of RAM? Every spec I've ever seen shows 256, the Touch Pro has 288, don't use it in your argument until it's proven... Even SonyEricsson.com doesn't have a RAM spec.
Haha I love how you're sooo biased you can't even say a 5MP camera is better than 3.2, "if there's anything SE knows it's cameras"... Yes, I know that their camera is not up to par with one that has 1.8MP more of resolution.
Once again, the Touch Pro has no issue with 3G reception, far better than other 3G phones I've used...
The manufacturer argument, why don't you make that argument between the HD and Touch Pro? It'd make just as much sense, all of the phones are manufactured by HTC.

Black93300ZX said:
As I posted in your other thread, a lot of this information is just wrong. Where did you ever hear the Xperia had almost 400MB of RAM? Every spec I've ever seen shows 256, the Touch Pro has 288, don't use it in your argument until it's proven... Even SonyEricsson.com doesn't have a RAM spec.
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I'm afraid you should first confirm things yourself. Xperiancers is a blog by SE and here is a quote from their latest blog entry: "The device has a graphics accelerator, a 528 Mhz processor and 384 megs of ram"
(if you'd like to see: http://xperiancers.com/ - Name of post is 'Your Xperia Questions Answered')
Black93300ZX said:
Haha I love how you're sooo biased you can't even say a 5MP camera is better than 3.2, "if there's anything SE knows it's cameras"... Yes, I know that their camera is not up to par with one that has 1.8MP more of resolution.
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Dude... it's my opinion, if you don't agree then don't, but call me biased at my own expense. I clearly stated that 'the Touch HD is again ahead of Xperia with a 5 MP camera over the 3.2 MP camera in Xperia', and i am sure many will agree that SE's cameras are one of the best in mobile devices... but i did not declare Xperia a winner over Touch HD but only implied that in my opinion Xperia'll be better. Furthermore - take into account that Touch HD lacks a flash for the camera, it will not perform up to par in certain conditions.
Black93300ZX said:
Once again, the Touch Pro has no issue with 3G reception, far better than other 3G phones I've used...
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Again... user based experience. Another member here mentioned that he faced 3G reception problems, and i put that in. You say it doesn't, i'll put that in as well.
Black93300ZX said:
The manufacturer argument, why don't you make that argument between the HD and Touch Pro? It'd make just as much sense, all of the phones are manufactured by HTC.
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Dude! did you even read what i wrote? I wrote it clear: "HTC vs. SE. This is SE's first WinMo device, so concerns arise... but given the fact that HTC was behind in this device's manufacturing as well, i say that we can rely on the device."
HTC manufactured Xperia, but it is a SE device and they are the ones who are bringing it out.

i love the HTC touch HD, but with no usa 3g, it turns me off!

netnerd said:
i love the HTC touch HD, but with no usa 3g, it turns me off!
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I'm afraid to add this to the comparison... someone might say something...
I was not aware of this... Maybe they'll add it in the end? or is it confirmed?

I really dont know which one i will choose, i have really bad experiences of SE, it´s quality, but since HTC manufactured Xperia, maybe it´s better.
But i don´t know if it´s worth the wait for the Touch HD either, since it is going to be released later than the Xperia..
I have surfed the web all day long for about 2 days now and really dont know which device to choose.
Really hard!

Nyberg said:
I really dont know which one i will choose, i have really bad experiences of SE, it´s quality, but since HTC manufactured Xperia, maybe it´s better.
But i don´t know if it´s worth the wait for the Touch HD either, since it is going to be released later than the Xperia..
I have surfed the web all day long for about 2 days now and really dont know which device to choose.
Really hard!
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Click to collapse
TOUCH HD

The comment about the camera is correct. For printing up to A4, anything over 3mp is usually massively outweighed by the lens opening and quality. Small opening ... small amounts of light - causes issues regardless of the CCD or CMOS. It is also correct to suggest that the SE devices have a history of being closer to compact cameras in quality than the toy town stuff you usually get from HTC (I've had loads of HTC devices and love them but the cameras are of little practical use). The other thing worth saying that the X1 will shoot 640x480 video and 30fps like the Nokia E90 and N95. The quality of video of the latter two is almost up to the Hi-8 camcorders (if in good light) which makes them a genuinely useful camcorder alternative. The HD (and all native HTC devices) are still QVGA and the video looks rubbish even on a 2" window on a PC. This should be a huge plus for the X1.
My concerns about the X1 relate to the likely hood that SE won't support and develop the platform. There are many rumours about the Sony and Ericcson relationship as well as the SE / HTC one. Also, Sony will not commit to any future WM devices - infact, it seems they are completely non committal about future OS - UIQ, Android, WM etc. When you look at the P1 issues ... never resolved even after a huge backlash by customers ... it's not promising.
The X1 performance / tuning also worries me. It was announced that there were gfx / video perf issues with 30fps playback very shortly before the release date. They didn't answer any real questions in their pathetic webcast either ... I think there will be fairly horrible issues initially and worry they won't fix them. The added RAM so late in the day may sound positive ... but it shows they don't really know what they are doing. They will have added it because performance was too slow. Do remember that that amount of RAM with WVGA will really cane the battery - a negative which people aren't really considering.
I worry also about the keyboard ... I guess we will have to wait for the first purchasers to confirm either way. These things are enough to stop me pre-ordering when 3 months ago it was a definite purchase for me.
The HD has no keyboard ... I might be able to live without. The problem is more with the lack of button controls. Again, we know very little about it. I would hope HTC would include some kind of soft dpad with dynamic scaling which would allow apps to run VGA on top of the extra screen estate which would have the soft buttons / dpad. If they don't do this, I am very concerned about real day to day use. If they do deliver such a soft key set, then I think it would be almost perfect as long as something else is not missing - like TV-Out ... strangely not detailed ... even though some sites suggest in the spec it is there. The only massive irritation for me is the camera - no flash and no VGA 30fps capture on something this expensive. I was hoping to replace my TyTNII and N95 8GB with a single device .... and it looks like I will still need two - seems like a stupid oversight for such an expensive device. The 3.8" screen may still sway me though. I don't need tiny like lots of people ... as long as I have a decent belt case.
Paul.

two very different devices targeted at different markets, daft trying do a compare on them as one is more of high usage business device the other a low usage media device.
Business or personal
So out of these two, if i wanted a phone to do work on with occasional media usage, id go for the X1, if i wanted something that looked swanky and was a good phone but ultimately a low work usage device then the HD would be it, course using that same logic id actualy not go with either of them as the TP is even more buiness orientated

dazza9075 said:
course using that same logic id actualy not go with either of them as the TP is even more buiness orientated
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huh? how is seeing less is more business orientated? when you in business, u want to see more data on screen, not less data on screen! TP=2.8" 640x480. X1=3.0" 800x480.

netnerd said:
huh? how is seeing less is more business orientated? when you in business, u want to see more data on screen, not less data on screen! TP=2.8" 640x480. X1=3.0" 800x480.
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Oh my god... Did you seriously just say a big issue when making a business oriented phone is having a big screen? That's the most ridiculous claim I've ever heard. In that case, the Touch HD will be purely for business, because the entire phone is just one huge screen. Big screens = multimedia use... iPhone, Touch HD? I don't think I've ever seen a businessman complain "oh man this screen is too small", if that were the case all businesses would have 42" LCD monitors for their computers.

is touch hd better than x1?

unhappy x1 owner

Better screen, lighter, better UI.
What are you looking for in the answers?

maybe you want to explain why are you unhappy with x1
browsing this forum will give you all informaton about issues of the Blackstone
you can even find some compartive benchmarks between HD and X1
so, what exactly do you want to know?

is touch hd faster less lag?
does the bigger screen keyboard makes up for the real keyboard of x1?
does the battery last longer?

leobox1 said:
is touch hd faster less lag?
does the bigger screen keyboard makes up for the real keyboard of x1?
does the battery last longer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no
no
don't think so

? so u mean x1 is better??

no i don't mean that as long as i own a HD and not X1
in some aspects HD is better is some other aspects is X1 that take the lead
for example, i never consider X1 just because it's thikness. i don't need the phisical keyboard because i don't text so much
so better is what is better TO YOU

how about the camera>

Definately Touch HD will be better because of 5MP camera compare to X1 only come with 3MP

belon_cfy said:
Definately Touch HD will be better because of 5MP camera compare to X1 only come with 3MP
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i seriously doubt that
htc cameras are well known being of poor quality. beside that it seems that the software is not well designed, as a lot of people noticed
on the other hand, sony is well known for quality cameras
so.....

leobox1 said:
? so u mean x1 is better??
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Click to collapse
nope I dont think so... nearly the same... i compared them before buying my HD and to my mind the X1 is too bullky-to big. (FOR ME! Its my opinion, If you have big pockets, than its no problem!)
But I think you can play games better with yout X1! We dont have hardware buttons!!! :O
But I can read eBooks more comfortable , because the screen is a little bit bigger (but has the same resolution)

The screen makes all the difference, HD got a bigger and easy to use screen, X1 screen is recessed so you might have problems clicking on the screen limits like the X in the corner.
Also the keyboard and hardware keys of the X1 can be easy to use but they might fail after some time of intensive use.

noris08 said:
i seriously doubt that
htc cameras are well known being of poor quality. beside that it seems that the software is not well designed, as a lot of people noticed
on the other hand, sony is well known for quality cameras
so.....
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Click to collapse
AFAIK, X1 is also manufactured by HTC, but for Sony. I don't recall where I read this, but this is what I have been lead to believe.
For me HD is awesome. Especially after upgrading/changing ROM. Absolutely love the high res, non-recessed screen. My only problem - complete lack of hardware buttons.
And it looks much much better than X1, but that's too subjective...
Internal hardware wise, I don't think it makes much of a difference. I've tried lots of HTC devices (including 200 MHz Omap processer - Charmer), and the only thing that makes a difference is amount of memory so that you can run more applications at the same time without worrying about running out of memory.

damac said:
AFAIK, X1 is also manufactured by HTC, but for Sony. I don't recall where I read this, but this is what I have been lead to believe.
that is true, x1 is made by htc
the difference is the software designed by se programmers, some drivers that htc usualy miss, small issues like that
i assume though that there are also some hardware components specificaly requested by se, like metal casing, for instance
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X1 better than the HD ?
Personally I don't think so.
If you're someone that texts allot, you'd be happy with the X1 since it has the physical keyboard.
But the HD is lighter, thinner and the TF3D is more user friendly than the standard WM6.1 stuff on the X1.
Though you can change all of that by flashing your device.
The battery of the HD is ok.
I play alot with it and the batterylife can reach like 2 days max.
If I stop playing with it and use it for phoning only, it may reach 3 days.
The screenquality on the HD is the thing that does it for me.
Since its a bigger screen, the experience of watching movies or streaming media is far cooler than you'll ever get on the X1.
Together with the big screen you'll find the 3.5 mm earjack which you can use to plug your favorite audiophone.
Don't know if the X1 has a extention to plug 3.5mm audiophones...
I'd choose for the HD.
X1 is more practical sometimes, but the HD is in my opinion very stylish.
Even more stylish than the Iphone... I think.
Greetings and goodluck

noris08 said:
i seriously doubt that
htc cameras are well known being of poor quality. beside that it seems that the software is not well designed, as a lot of people noticed
on the other hand, sony is well known for quality cameras
so.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm I've had a few SE phones in recent history. I was very happy with my SE W810i, camera was pretty decent on that.
Upgraded to the K850i and hated the damn thing, especially the camera which while supposed to be 5mp was attrocious. I had so many faults with the model in the end Orange got sick of sending me new ones and upgraded me to the C902. Decent phone but again the camera was nothing special. I personally have found the quality on my HD better than the C902 which is also 5mp. I considered the X1 but have had so many issues with SE of late that i wanted to try something different and i am absolutely loving the HD so far.

touch hd
I have had my HD for severl months now and it is always failed to impress me (aprt from the gorgeous screen) by far the best HTC I have had were the orbit and XDA exec, both good phones. My only problem with it is that it was hiped to buggery when it was released as a super amazing fast all singing all dancing media phone, it isnt at all, it is a business phone, a slick shiny Iphone-esq one but a business phone nonetheless. it could have been so good, its hardware is outpaces game consoles and the iphone for instance. If it wasnt crippled by winmo and the lack of full 3d and video acceleration it would be the shoulders above the rest. I feel let down by HTC and I am not going to buy one again until they can properly optimise there hardware like Apple have done with the Iphone, you have to give it to Apple, they have squeezed every ounce of juice out of that bady they can, you only need to look at the wealth of app. I would sell my HD tomorrow if the Iphone wasnt so locked down and had a bigger screen, iphone next gen here I come...

stoolzo said:
I have had my HD for severl months now and it is always failed to impress me (aprt from the gorgeous screen) by far the best HTC I have had were the orbit and XDA exec, both good phones. My only problem with it is that it was hiped to buggery when it was released as a super amazing fast all singing all dancing media phone, it isnt at all, it is a business phone, a slick shiny Iphone-esq one but a business phone nonetheless. it could have been so good, its hardware is outpaces game consoles and the iphone for instance. If it wasnt crippled by winmo and the lack of full 3d and video acceleration it would be the shoulders above the rest. I feel let down by HTC and I am not going to buy one again until they can properly optimise there hardware like Apple have done with the Iphone, you have to give it to Apple, they have squeezed every ounce of juice out of that bady they can, you only need to look at the wealth of app. I would sell my HD tomorrow if the Iphone wasnt so locked down and had a bigger screen, iphone next gen here I come...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how does all your review answers to the thread question ?

stoolzo said:
..iphone next gen here I come...
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I will have a iPhone AND a HD
iPhone for playing HD for everything else (movie watching, eading, working, learning, sms-ing, phoning xD
The next iPhone should have at least WVGA resolution until then-HD RULEZ

HTC Touch Pro 2, or HTC Touch HD?

Hey guys new member of the forum i will soon be getting a new phone and it will be either the Touch Pro 2 or the Touch HD. I'm not sure which one to get as i can live without a hardware keyboard which makes the device slimmer and easier to hold, but the question is what is the difference between the 2 phones? are they running the exact same software with the same features etc etc? if they operate exactly the same the HD looks nicer in my opinion, this will be my first time owning a windows mobile, will both phones get the same updates/custom roms. Other peoples opinions on these phones would be a great help, thanks in advance.
Sorry if this is not the correct section to be posting this.

If it was me, I'd maybe hold out for the HTC Leo, the HD's successor
Another thread which is kinda similar regarding people asking what to get after the HD maybe worth a read

thanks for your reply i will have a read of that, the issue is my contract runs out soon and the Leo doesn't yet have a release date and will be getting a new phone the day my contract runs out as i can't get through the day without my phone lol.

Isn't much difference apart from the qwerty keyboard, screen size, D-pad and camera. Generally everything else is similar. Check both the specs and read the wiki for both devices, have a look at the rom forums on both to see whats available.
It would most likely come down what you want, or what your looking for in a device. Basically personal opinion.

TP2 every day in the week.

thanks for the feedback guys. Well i prefer a slightly bigger screen and a slimmer looking phone and find the TP2 to be a little bulky, but if the software is the same this helps a lot as i like the look of the software from the TP2 which will be the same on the HD.
ArtieQ said:
TP2 every day in the week.
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could you maybe give some reasons on your view on why this would be the best choice? Thanks

The HD .. Huge screen .. and um... rather slim and cute looking .. I have a black silicone suround for it and mirror suraface.... and a huge screen with a huge resoultion .. did I mention that?

dgattenb said:
The HD .. Huge screen .. and um... rather slim and cute looking .. I have a black silicone suround for it and mirror suraface.... and a huge screen with a huge resoultion .. did I mention that?
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Click to collapse
Huge screen, but huge screen means less pixels = less quality. TP2 got a huge advantage when it comes down to screen resolution vs. HD. And the TP2 got a keyboard and 4 hardware buttons you can actually feel.

ArtieQ said:
Huge screen, but huge screen means less pixels = less quality. TP2 got a huge advantage when it comes down to screen resolution vs. HD.
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Click to collapse
You're kidding, right? TP2 and HD both have WVGA - you're not seriously telling me that the pixel density on the HD is not high enough? I doubt you could even tell the difference between the two concerning DPI!
And I'd rather have a larger screen than a smaller one - even if the higher DPI would make a difference... What's the use of having a higher DPI on a smaller screen?

Hd is better in music as it has 3.5 mm audio jack which means better sound quality and also hd is higher in price (the only issue is that hd will not get wm6.5 officially from htc ) but i think it will but htc does not announce that to sell alot of the recent devices

hoss_n2 said:
Hd is better in music as it has 3.5 mm audio jack which means better sound quality and also hd is higher in price (the only issue is that hd will not get wm6.5 officially from htc ) but i think it will but htc does not announce that to sell alot of the recent devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a Touch HD, although it is in for repairs at the moment, and would consider the TP2 but the lack of a headphone jack is killing me. I live in the US and have not had a chance to play with the TP2. I have AT&T which I am assuming will not have the headphone jack like the Sprint and Verizon (CDMA) model has, Lucky Bastards!!! Anyway, that is what will probably stop me from getting the TP2.
I am sure there will be other options with a headphone jack in the future since HTC has made it clear that most future devices will have them. TP3?? I think they are a little sore from the lashing they took for not putting it in the TP2 which is clearly a great multimedia device. Kida like buying some of the original flat panel tv's that didn't have a TV tuner or speakers. Kinda defeats the purpose.

Well I personally recomend the Touch HD (not only for the reason that I have it and I love it ) when I was choosing my device I was looking for the bigest screen on the market as I like browsing the internet a lot and let me say this BIGGER IS BETTER when we are talking about PPC's nothing can change that also you get a cool design that gets the "WOW" effect from anyone and your pants will not fall to the ground when you are carying it in your pocket.It really depends on the person but for me if I have two phones with almost equal specifications I'll go for the bigger screen even if it is 0,1 inches bigger than the other one.Leo is probably my next device but I heard great things about TOSHIBA's TG01 4.1 inch monster with 1ghz proccessor that's only 10mm thick if you can get your hands on that (it's available in some areas) I would recommend that.

If you are only using one phone I would get the TP2. As I already have the E71 for emails etc I ordered the Touch HD yesterday as a semi tablet.

if it were me, id let my contract run out, continue using the service with your old phone until Leo is released, then upgrade if your carrier runs with the leo, if it doesnt id then upgrade to the most expencive phone they offer then leaving it in its box id flog it on ebay an use the money to buy the leo...
just my thoughts