Database Users

T-Mobile MDA (Wizard) GPS

New to the forums, and betting this is a stupid Question, but I was wondering if there was anyway to tap into the GPS locater(built in for emergency calls such as 911) and use that for a GPS application, If the Wizard even has one built in, I would imagine that it does, but anways wondering if its possible, and if anyone has any incite into how to use this/turn it on?

There's no GPS in the wizard.

markgamber said:
There's no GPS in the wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Emergency services can locate your phone fairly accurately using triangulation from the gsm phone masts, using network data. There was a company selling a tracking service such as this for mobile users a while back, but I forget the details.

yeah ran into that service a while back, but the main way to get to it was to buy two handsets and pay for their cheap data service and put the other handset in someones car or whatever and use the 1st handset to track them...

I think that navizon.com has a program like that. theres a trial version for free. Doesnt google maps also use that technology?

hmm try google map 2.0 they show u wat ur location is without GPS
try http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=349188

I've tried both of these apps and both aren't worth a crap to me. They get my location in the right state, heck even the right city...almost. But I can't get it to be consistent let alone even half right.
I tried em both out and would like to know what I have been doing wrong since everyone else says that they are "great."
Thanks,
Ivan

It's already been said, but get Google Map 2.0...I installed it a few days ago, and it's not bad. I'm usually within 2000ft. of the calculated location.
Bad Karma said:
I've tried both of these apps and both aren't worth a crap to me. They get my location in the right state, heck even the right city...almost. But I can't get it to be consistent let alone even half right.
I tried em both out and would like to know what I have been doing wrong since everyone else says that they are "great."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing you did wrong was expect triangulation to work like you're watching CSI. In the real world, there is signal bounce, interference from trees, buildings, and other radio transmissions, and a whole host of other nameless error-creating problems. Radio triangulation is severely limited, but considering this sort of feature wasn't even available as a free application (much less being built into a mapping software as robust as GMaps) until VERY recently, it's pretty good, if you don't have GPS. You can buy a dongle to attach to your MDA, or you can suck it up, and deal with generally inaccurate location.

Trying it again...I thought that I had 2.0 but maybe not...I'll let you know either way how it comes out this time.
-Ivan

Ok much better...however it is still like 4 miles!!! off.
Does it update when in travel or how/when will it become more accurate??
Thanks agian,
Ivan

Google Maps 2 has "My location"
I dunno if you knew but Google Maps has been updated now and it offers My location - which is pretty close what GPS does. It gets your position through cellular towers and then it locates you within half a mile if I'm not mistaken...
Try it and c if it works 4 u

Myrddin Wyllt said:
It's already been said, but get Google Map 2.0...I installed it a few days ago, and it's not bad. I'm usually within 2000ft. of the calculated location.
The only thing you did wrong was expect triangulation to work like you're watching CSI. In the real world, there is signal bounce, interference from trees, buildings, and other radio transmissions, and a whole host of other nameless error-creating problems. Radio triangulation is severely limited, but considering this sort of feature wasn't even available as a free application (much less being built into a mapping software as robust as GMaps) until VERY recently, it's pretty good, if you don't have GPS. You can buy a dongle to attach to your MDA, or you can suck it up, and deal with generally inaccurate location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually google maps DOES NOT use triangulation..it will just show ur position based on a single cell tower and the signal strength being calculated by your phone..

So I tried my Google Maps 2.0 on the fly today...
It told me that it wouldn't work because I did not have a "data connection" and that I needed to contact my "service provider" to be able to utilize that function... (Or some crap like that)
What am I doing wrong now??
Thanks guys,
Ivan

Internal GPS

Does Anyone knows how to get the Internal GPS to work with Windows Live Map?
Thanks,

gpsone isn't in standalone mode so it cannot be accessed by applications

There are rumors that it'll be activated in the EVDO Rev A update this fall.

so wait... mogul has a gps?

it's built into the qualcomm cpu like the kaiser. it's assumed the gps shares the cell antenna since there's no gps antenna on board and the documentation states this is possible. the kaiser has the 7200 the mogul has the 7500. kaiser w/ test rom allows for the gpsone to run in standalone mode and the kaiser seems to have an antenna so it works.
as of right now it's assumed gps will work when unlocked but it's still a gray area; there may or may not be an antenna

The FCC application describes the Mogul as
"a CDMA850/CDMA1900 (1XEVDO / 1XRTT / IS-95A/B) Pocket PC Phone with wireless LAN, bluetooth, and GPS functions."
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id='NM8TITA100'

the listing of gps functionality is ambiguous; all cellphones are required to have agps for e911 emergency in the usa as mandated by the fcc. gpsone is in quite a few htc devices but only a handful have antennas attached

how accurate is agps? versus standalone gps?

someone on PPCgeeks reported that Live Search was working on Sprint Moguls using tower triangulation. I'm not sure if this is different than AGPS, but it sure it neat to have location based services, even if accurate only to a few hundred yards...

Dishe said:
someone on PPCgeeks reported that Live Search was working on Sprint Moguls using tower triangulation. I'm not sure if this is different than AGPS, but it sure it neat to have location based services, even if accurate only to a few hundred yards...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A-GPS = tower assisted GPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

i had my telenav rep confirm when the rev a patch is released that the GPS will be unlocked as well.

samspoon said:
the listing of gps functionality is ambiguous; all cellphones are required to have agps for e911 emergency in the usa as mandated by the fcc. gpsone is in quite a few htc devices but only a handful have antennas attached
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All cell phones certainly DO NOT have aGPS. Please do not confuse aGPS for tower triangulation.
aGPS is assisted GPS meaning it uses the cell phone towers to assist an existing GPS chipset.
So if the Mogul has aGPS, then it has to have GPS by definition.

he is right though. FCC does now require that ALL new phones in the united states have GPS (to an extent) for at least e911.

TC1 said:
A-GPS = tower assisted GPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I'm aware of the definition.
The way AGPS is described is similar to how articles are describing the technology Sprint and MS are using... and since every Sprint phone is mandated by the FCC to have 911 AGPS capabilities, I'm wondering if this is the same thing.

samspoon said:
as of right now it's assumed gps will work when unlocked but it's still a gray area; there may or may not be an antenna
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Kaiser has a big "GPS" on the back where you can hook up an external antenna. No such luck with the Mogul.
But I still can hope that _some_ kind of GPS would come with Rev.A. Sucky GPS is better than no GPS...

I think you guys know as well as I do, that even if the phone has a functional gps and a antenna sprint will still never unlock it. Its not that they dont want to, they are lazy. There have been lots of firmware "updates" I have been waiting for on other sprint phones that they were going to release and never did.
As for external GPS recievers what do you guys think of this one?
http://www.semsons.com/wo44chawaauo.html
That supports A-GPS you think that would work?

Madzilla said:
I think you guys know as well as I do, that even if the phone has a functional gps and a antenna sprint will still never unlock it. Its not that they dont want to, they are lazy. There have been lots of firmware "updates" I have been waiting for on other sprint phones that they were going to release and never did.
As for external GPS recievers what do you guys think of this one?
http://www.semsons.com/wo44chawaauo.html
That supports A-GPS you think that would work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you are going to go with an external BT reciever any should work, since its not using the phones GPS at all

If you want an external, get a Holux M-1200. Tiny, cheap, and works amazing. I love mine!

ok, so any external gps will work? some of them say A-GPS compatible and others dont. Does that matter at all?

Software GPS?

Hi Guys,
I just did a quick search for GPS and found nothing on the threads.
Is there anything that could be considered a software GPS package for a T-Mobile (USA) MDA? I know that other providers have this type of thing but I am wondering specifically about T-Mobile. Now that I've updated the ROMs, etc, its the only thing missing from my MDA's second life.
Thanks in advance.

what do you mean software gps ?
as in software which just guess where you are?
software which by getting location info from the gsm antenna one is connected to where ones rough location is (pretty rough dont wanna use it for driving directions)
or just software to comm with an bluetooth gps device

I think he is refering to the 'assisted gps' thing which uses multiple towers to locate your location. You have that in iPhone, but I never heard of it for WM5/6. And, probably not in UK.

I was asking about something that does not require any additional hardware. I dont think a guess would work...
Thanks for the reply.

Thanks Hanmin. Exactly what I was asking.
I'm actually based in the USA so any suggestions would be great.

You have a higher chances of finding something, since you are in US (i.e. with tower databases etc). You may want to do research on the iPhone software and see if there are any PPC port of it... or is the software from Google?

many GPS software !
google maps, Yahoo to go!
Pocket Street.
all are working fine on MDA.
my TomTom works great!

I'm not sure if you got his question correctly, he doesn't want an additional hardware GPS 'mouse' for his phone. He wants assisted GPS

Even when your phone service provider has LBS service, depending on architecture of their system, there should be no universal software that is suitable for all types (Some use web-based query, other uses SMS query, or even Java SIM Toolkit, etc.)

Navizon is $20, but has a free 15 day trial period.
I have read that it is not consistently accurate, so I strongly recommend you try it in most of the places you plan to use it before buying.
This kind of software is particularly susceptible to errors cause by multi-path reception resulting from cellular signals bouncing off of large, flat surfaces, such as building exteriors. This can result in dramatic inaccuracies in positioning.
If you plan to use this from a vehicle, I'd recommend a hardware GPS dongle, or "mouse" over this software or anything like it.
Just my 2¢.

Thanks very much guys.

Just a quick follow up. I downloaded and installed Navizon and Myrddin is absolutely correct.
I thought "how bad could it be?" and honestly, its bad. While I was playing with it last night, it puts me about 5 miles away from my actual position so its not a realistic thing to use.
I'll save my $20. It seems like someones 2¢ is worth a few dollars after all.
Thanks.

Ways to locate current position(GPS, GPRS, SMS-locating etc)

I'm trying to develope an application for my Trinity, and I'm currently thinking of implementing a GPS function to track down my current position.
But: I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases, using GPRS-position(???) and also, I've seen a service that uses SMS(??? It says you can send a SMS to a server, and it will find out where you are...=)
Now, which one of these are pure misunderstandings, and which one does work?
I've heard of a application that that uses GSM-bases to triangling the position, and it actually works...
So my second part is, anyone knows how to implement this is C# ?

It can be done...
neofix said:
I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases, using GPRS-position(???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't help you on how to do it, but I know an app that does. Google Maps works this way. It finds my location within about 1Km using GPRS. I don't have GSP on my phone. It only works is some locations. For example, at my house (in a rural area) it doesn't work. I am guessing this is either because I have only one base providing service, or that base is missing certain features.
Good luck on finding a solution to implement this. It can be done somehow.

PhilD41 said:
I can't help you on how to do it, but I know an app that does. Google Maps works this way. It finds my location within about 1Km using GPRS. I don't have GSP on my phone. It only works is some locations. For example, at my house (in a rural area) it doesn't work. I am guessing this is either because I have only one base providing service, or that base is missing certain features.
Good luck on finding a solution to implement this. It can be done somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, that means that there is actually something called GPRS-positioning, now the 10 billion dollar question is how to implement this

Yes, the Google Maps "location" feature works well for me in USA. It locates the nearest cel towers to my device...good luck with your project.

i don't know about GPRS-positioning, but i do know for sure that Google Maps doesn't use it like PhilD41 said, Google Maps tries to figure out your location using cell phone towers around you. Cell Tower Triangulation, i think is the term. you can search that term and see how to implement it

Azimuth21 said:
i don't know about GPRS-positioning, but i do know for sure that Google Maps doesn't use it like PhilD41 said, Google Maps tries to figure out your location using cell phone towers around you. Cell Tower Triangulation, i think is the term. you can search that term and see how to implement it
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Click to collapse
Oh right then - Been trying to search bit for Cell Tower Triangulation, and found some interesting threads- unfortunatly for me, nonen that describes how to actually triangulate though But so far, I'm very thankfull for all the replies here

here is how it works:
http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/publications/Thesis/node12.html
and Iphone has already similar software... so if you want to back engineer it: http://technology.slashgeo.org/technology/08/01/03/0440258.shtml

mahsoud said:
here is how it works:
http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/publications/Thesis/node12.html
and Iphone has already similar software... so if you want to back engineer it: http://technology.slashgeo.org/technology/08/01/03/0440258.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe! Now, just to find a way to implement this... Still haven't managed to get any closer to a soultion... :|

Navizon Virtual GPS
Check this out, this program already does what you want:
http://www.navizon.com/navizon_v-gps.asp
It has tracking by gps and virtual gps (gsm bases, wifi)
Hope this helps!
Greetz Bas

neofix said:
I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're thinking of Assisted GPS. You operator and cell towers' equipement needs to support this for it to work.

rev3nant said:
I think you're thinking of Assisted GPS. You operator and cell towers' equipement needs to support this for it to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! Thanks for the reply, I belive this is something else then assisted GPS... Since the A-GPS, as you said needs a A-GPS server on the operator-side, while triangulation only needs three cell towers.... (Less accuracy, but still)

bas.bootsveld said:
Check this out, this program already does what you want:
http://www.navizon.com/navizon_v-gps.asp
It has tracking by gps and virtual gps (gsm bases, wifi)
Hope this helps!
Greetz Bas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply!
This is the kind of feature I want to implement, but I need to find out how to do this in coding...

Hi,
some interesting for you i hope.
As far as I can work out GoogleMaps uses the navizon database to triangulate your position. Navizon uses freely donates gps+wifi data.
Here's my slightly informed opinion, from best to worst
connected/Inbuilt GPS: most accurate u will get
Navizon: probably as good as AGPS but i think better as it triangulates on phone mast details and (if u have wifi built in) wifi router details (see website for this cool feature)
A-GPS: next most accurate you will get.
No such thing as SMS/GPRS location. This is in fact a service provided by companies who use a mobile phone operators databases to triangulate your position (API licenses cost between £500 and £2000 in UK PER operator!!!) . So not much better than AGPS but a method (with a cost).
Can you do this in c#? yes. download Visual Studio 2008 90-day trial edition and you'll find a GPS application ready and waiting. Its a bit buggy but a g8 starting point.
If you simply want to get gps position for an app without having to code anything, you might want to wait a little and download my next GPSSpot application. It will save the current GPS position to a registry key for other apps to use.

seanpu1 said:
Hi,
some interesting for you i hope.
As far as I can work out GoogleMaps uses the navizon database to triangulate your position. Navizon uses freely donates gps+wifi data.
Here's my slightly informed opinion, from best to worst
connected/Inbuilt GPS: most accurate u will get
Navizon: probably as good as AGPS but i think better as it triangulates on phone mast details and (if u have wifi built in) wifi router details (see website for this cool feature)
A-GPS: next most accurate you will get.
No such thing as SMS/GPRS location. This is in fact a service provided by companies who use a mobile phone operators databases to triangulate your position (API licenses cost between £500 and £2000 in UK PER operator!!!) . So not much better than AGPS but a method (with a cost).
Can you do this in c#? yes. download Visual Studio 2008 90-day trial edition and you'll find a GPS application ready and waiting. Its a bit buggy but a g8 starting point.
If you simply want to get gps position for an app without having to code anything, you might want to wait a little and download my next GPSSpot application. It will save the current GPS position to a registry key for other apps to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! Nice reply sir!
But this really starts to stirr around my noodles - since I have a Iphone here, without a GPS, and it can give me a +- 100/200 m accuracy on where I'm using cell tower triangulation...
When it comes to the GPS-part, I've coded it finished, so I'm just so curious on how the author has done it... Is it using some sort of cell-tower location database? Hmm... I've tried to mail the developer, but without luck
But, when it comes to my app, I think NaviZone is the way to go...

if iPhone has wifi (which i believe it does) Navizone is the way forward. It will consume more power as your wifi has to be on. But it will only work in areas that have been "surveyed" by donating users.
(btw its also good to find local free hot-spots/unblocked wifi routers)
btw, cell-tower location databases have a VERY wide range in accuracy. Firstly its dependent on the accuracy of the cell knowing its own GPS position (big discussion came to my mind on how interesting that is, but I'll leave this out for now). Then dependent on the number of cells used in the calculation (the more cells the better.) So, inner city regions get fair to good accuracy, but out in the country accuracy drops to >1000m radius.
I'd be interested to know what the iPhone is like for accuracy out in the sticks, and whether they use NaviZone or a similar service.

agps rogers

how do i enable agps on my rogers elf plz help

Sadly Rogers touch Elf does not have GPS capabilities. The Vogue is the one with GPS. See Bell CDMA Touch otherwise known as the Vogue.

i know they dont have gps but i heard with 6.1 its to have agps
assisted gps ... which uses gprs not sat

Yes It Does
hotrod101 said:
Sadly Rogers touch Elf does not have GPS capabilities. The Vogue is the one with GPS. See Bell CDMA Touch otherwise known as the Vogue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi i do have software ,is call imobium,i dont know how to send it to u ,but it is such a gps on htc touch elf GSM from rogers. i bought one of those phones and i'm using imobium.
replay if u have another channel where i can send u the specs of the program and the posibility of sending u the program it self.
Good Luck.
Yami

If agps uses gprs not sat then would you incur heavy data use charges? I don't have any type of data plan (they are rediculous in price) besides, where I live, there is pretty much an open wifi hotspot anywhere I go so I have just been using the WIFI whenever I need to. I am interested in learning more. I did some googling and my understanding was that AGPS still required GPS. IF AGPS can work using GPRS Only, what can you do with that? Can you still use navigation software on the device and have turn by turn directions etc..., Can you use it to tell your speed altitude etc.. while driving? If you drive through a zone with no coverage, then AGPS would not work? There are several of these "Dead Zones" in my area in the North of Ontario Canada. (Dead zones for all cell phones no matter who your carrier is)
From what I have read there are a lot of phones that have AGPS however, most have it completely locked up so that there is no way to use it though. (Providers use it for their own purposes I guess - TO SPY ON US) I don't know about the Elf though. Haven't done that much research on it yet. Since there is no official WM 6.1 Rom release (For the Elf) to release the AGPS capabilities, maybe one of the custom roms from this site can do it. If it can be opened up for use with a ROM that is.

Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, enhances the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system. It is used extensively with GPS-capable cellular phones..... Taken from WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

Funnily enough, A-GPS did actually come out as a data based gps solution back when EDGE came to the scene.
But suddenly phones started coming out with their own GPS units installed. UH OH, the carriers said. This imense source of data revenue, is now going to go away.
What to do? What to do?
I GOT IT! We redefine what A-GPS is. Instead of being simply data capable phone tracking system, we take phones with existing, and fully functioning GPS units, convince people that we are actually "helping" the performance of the GPS units with our networks and VOILA, we make even more money than before.
FYI, A-GPS was actually basically the same technology that Google Maps now uses for their "My Location" which is to normalize or coordinate, your location from several cell towers, and have a pretty good approximation of where you are.
All that was required was software (ie MAPS) that could take advantage of this technology that existed from when cell phones came into being.
That is why if you were one of the early adopters of set technology (originally came out with CDMA 2000) companies, you would have noticed that your so called "A-GPS" was as good as your reception was.
So really the more modern A-GPS, should be called GPS-A-CellCOMPANIESmakeMONEY.
But my suggested name did not fly so they decided to stick with A-GPS.