Database Users

T-Mobile MDA (Wizard) GPS

New to the forums, and betting this is a stupid Question, but I was wondering if there was anyway to tap into the GPS locater(built in for emergency calls such as 911) and use that for a GPS application, If the Wizard even has one built in, I would imagine that it does, but anways wondering if its possible, and if anyone has any incite into how to use this/turn it on?

There's no GPS in the wizard.

markgamber said:
There's no GPS in the wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Emergency services can locate your phone fairly accurately using triangulation from the gsm phone masts, using network data. There was a company selling a tracking service such as this for mobile users a while back, but I forget the details.

yeah ran into that service a while back, but the main way to get to it was to buy two handsets and pay for their cheap data service and put the other handset in someones car or whatever and use the 1st handset to track them...

I think that navizon.com has a program like that. theres a trial version for free. Doesnt google maps also use that technology?

hmm try google map 2.0 they show u wat ur location is without GPS
try http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=349188

I've tried both of these apps and both aren't worth a crap to me. They get my location in the right state, heck even the right city...almost. But I can't get it to be consistent let alone even half right.
I tried em both out and would like to know what I have been doing wrong since everyone else says that they are "great."
Thanks,
Ivan

It's already been said, but get Google Map 2.0...I installed it a few days ago, and it's not bad. I'm usually within 2000ft. of the calculated location.
Bad Karma said:
I've tried both of these apps and both aren't worth a crap to me. They get my location in the right state, heck even the right city...almost. But I can't get it to be consistent let alone even half right.
I tried em both out and would like to know what I have been doing wrong since everyone else says that they are "great."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing you did wrong was expect triangulation to work like you're watching CSI. In the real world, there is signal bounce, interference from trees, buildings, and other radio transmissions, and a whole host of other nameless error-creating problems. Radio triangulation is severely limited, but considering this sort of feature wasn't even available as a free application (much less being built into a mapping software as robust as GMaps) until VERY recently, it's pretty good, if you don't have GPS. You can buy a dongle to attach to your MDA, or you can suck it up, and deal with generally inaccurate location.

Trying it again...I thought that I had 2.0 but maybe not...I'll let you know either way how it comes out this time.
-Ivan

Ok much better...however it is still like 4 miles!!! off.
Does it update when in travel or how/when will it become more accurate??
Thanks agian,
Ivan

Google Maps 2 has "My location"
I dunno if you knew but Google Maps has been updated now and it offers My location - which is pretty close what GPS does. It gets your position through cellular towers and then it locates you within half a mile if I'm not mistaken...
Try it and c if it works 4 u

Myrddin Wyllt said:
It's already been said, but get Google Map 2.0...I installed it a few days ago, and it's not bad. I'm usually within 2000ft. of the calculated location.
The only thing you did wrong was expect triangulation to work like you're watching CSI. In the real world, there is signal bounce, interference from trees, buildings, and other radio transmissions, and a whole host of other nameless error-creating problems. Radio triangulation is severely limited, but considering this sort of feature wasn't even available as a free application (much less being built into a mapping software as robust as GMaps) until VERY recently, it's pretty good, if you don't have GPS. You can buy a dongle to attach to your MDA, or you can suck it up, and deal with generally inaccurate location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually google maps DOES NOT use triangulation..it will just show ur position based on a single cell tower and the signal strength being calculated by your phone..

So I tried my Google Maps 2.0 on the fly today...
It told me that it wouldn't work because I did not have a "data connection" and that I needed to contact my "service provider" to be able to utilize that function... (Or some crap like that)
What am I doing wrong now??
Thanks guys,
Ivan

Software GPS?

Hi Guys,
I just did a quick search for GPS and found nothing on the threads.
Is there anything that could be considered a software GPS package for a T-Mobile (USA) MDA? I know that other providers have this type of thing but I am wondering specifically about T-Mobile. Now that I've updated the ROMs, etc, its the only thing missing from my MDA's second life.
Thanks in advance.

what do you mean software gps ?
as in software which just guess where you are?
software which by getting location info from the gsm antenna one is connected to where ones rough location is (pretty rough dont wanna use it for driving directions)
or just software to comm with an bluetooth gps device

I think he is refering to the 'assisted gps' thing which uses multiple towers to locate your location. You have that in iPhone, but I never heard of it for WM5/6. And, probably not in UK.

I was asking about something that does not require any additional hardware. I dont think a guess would work...
Thanks for the reply.

Thanks Hanmin. Exactly what I was asking.
I'm actually based in the USA so any suggestions would be great.

You have a higher chances of finding something, since you are in US (i.e. with tower databases etc). You may want to do research on the iPhone software and see if there are any PPC port of it... or is the software from Google?

many GPS software !
google maps, Yahoo to go!
Pocket Street.
all are working fine on MDA.
my TomTom works great!

I'm not sure if you got his question correctly, he doesn't want an additional hardware GPS 'mouse' for his phone. He wants assisted GPS

Even when your phone service provider has LBS service, depending on architecture of their system, there should be no universal software that is suitable for all types (Some use web-based query, other uses SMS query, or even Java SIM Toolkit, etc.)

Navizon is $20, but has a free 15 day trial period.
I have read that it is not consistently accurate, so I strongly recommend you try it in most of the places you plan to use it before buying.
This kind of software is particularly susceptible to errors cause by multi-path reception resulting from cellular signals bouncing off of large, flat surfaces, such as building exteriors. This can result in dramatic inaccuracies in positioning.
If you plan to use this from a vehicle, I'd recommend a hardware GPS dongle, or "mouse" over this software or anything like it.
Just my 2¢.

Thanks very much guys.

Just a quick follow up. I downloaded and installed Navizon and Myrddin is absolutely correct.
I thought "how bad could it be?" and honestly, its bad. While I was playing with it last night, it puts me about 5 miles away from my actual position so its not a realistic thing to use.
I'll save my $20. It seems like someones 2¢ is worth a few dollars after all.
Thanks.

Geolocation does NOT work with cellid only on 3G

I'm trying to figure out if anyone else is having this problem.
Got my G1 on the 21st. been playing with a few things and the laundry list of UI annoyances is getting longer by the minute.
but overall quite impressed. Here's a weird one.
Google Maps (on G1 of course) cannot locate my phone - at all - with wifi OFF and gps OFF.
I am in a 3G zone. Google Maps on my HTC Touch worked fine (EDGE only of course)
So I looked around and found a reference somewhere stating that cellid geolocation does NOT work in 3G areas.
Is this true of all 3G phones?? If so it's very strange - because I like to keep 3G on but when I am indoors or for that matter when I want to save battery I turn off GPS and wifi.
So why the hell would they not be able to geolocate by cellid?
I tested it on my G1 and it's true - as soon as you turn off 3G (Settings->Wireless Controls->Mobile Networks) then cellid Geolocation works fine.
Just thought people might want to know and I'm curious if anyone else has the same problem.
Nick

I heard from a network engineer that all of the 3G hardware was rapid deployed and configured to minimum specs which happened to NOT include enabling aGPS. It was either an oversight or a timesaver. This will be fixed, it is a known issue. All the techs are still in the middle of the initial deployment and rapid expansion before the end of the quarter.
I HOPE to god Tmo can stop the ATT commercials that brag about the fastest network in the US after this quarter.

that only kind of makes sense...
I mean sure - it's all new etc...
but the point is that the network is not doing the a bit of the aGPS - google is.
Google does a lookup of the cellid in its database - and presumably does not have any information on the new cellids.....YET.
I just find that weird - I am in the metropolitan LA area and you would think with all the hoopla of this launch and the financial might of google they could have gotten it together by now - I mean these towers didn't go up yesterday...
Nick
syrusfrost said:
I heard from a network engineer that all of the 3G hardware was rapid deployed and configured to minimum specs which happened to NOT include enabling aGPS. It was either an oversight or a timesaver. This will be fixed, it is a known issue. All the techs are still in the middle of the initial deployment and rapid expansion before the end of the quarter.
I HOPE to god Tmo can stop the ATT commercials that brag about the fastest network in the US after this quarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

nickybee said:
Google does a lookup of the cellid in its database - and presumably does not have any information on the new cellids.....YET.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
erm, is that how aGPS works on the G1? That's stupid. I was under the impression that it worked like normal aGPS... I.E. -
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: You are @ 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters
Tower: GPS sattelites G51, T85, R14 are 3 strongest
Phone: Fed GPS data to GPS radio, warm start for 10 sec lock as opposed to over a minute for a cold start lock.
And I am also under the impression that alot of the 3G hardware wasn't configured with the appropriate data (position with est of accuracy based on closest towers and affinity and the 3 strongest GPS signals for that area). The issue was noticed and any new hardware should be fine. Problems will be resolved as the expansion portion of the project begins and all of the areas are revisited.
Where did you get your info nickybee?

aad4321 said:
agps works fine with me on 3G....
also under settings...security and location.... if you look under "use wireless networks" it says with that turned on, it uses wifi and cell towers for location. I would imagine with this off, it will not geolocate through towers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes that was turned on on my G1 of course.
and no it still doesn't work.
nick

hey syrus - I didn't mean aGPS - I was just referring to the (a) part of the GPS.
i.e. there is no Phone saying "Where am I"
it goes
GMaps application: "What's my cell id?"
Phone: "It's ABC1"
GMaps application: "Hey Google dbase - where's cellid ABC1"
Google: "ABC1 is at 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters"
As to where I get my information from it's out of my ass
I accept that I could be totally wrong - but I assume that google does not go to the carriers for cellid information - it just drives around with the mobile vans and captures GPS data for Wifi and cellid simultaneously. Since the towers are quite new - their data has not been captured yet
Nick
syrusfrost said:
erm, is that how aGPS works on the G1? That's stupid. I was under the impression that it worked like normal aGPS... I.E. -
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: You are @ 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters
Tower: GPS sattelites G51, T85, R14 are 3 strongest
Phone: Fed GPS data to GPS radio, warm start for 10 sec lock as opposed to over a minute for a cold start lock.
And I am also under the impression that alot of the 3G hardware wasn't configured with the appropriate data (position with est of accuracy based on closest towers and affinity and the 3 strongest GPS signals for that area). The issue was noticed and any new hardware should be fine. Problems will be resolved as the expansion portion of the project begins and all of the areas are revisited.
Where did you get your info nickybee?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i never used the built in gpa, so far.
I use my bluetooth keychain gps. had it from my old excalibur.
works great

nickybee said:
GMaps application: "What's my cell id?"
Phone: "It's ABC1"
GMaps application: "Hey Google dbase - where's cellid ABC1"
Google: "ABC1 is at 33.12345/32.12345 accuracy 2000 meters"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erm, you know now that I look at it Google is implementing SOMETHING new, I don't know how far they are taking it. Traditional aGPS has been around for a long time now, Google was never involved. I believe that at this point, with this version of Android things are still working the way they always have.
But! Did you notice the setting also indicates that the phone can find your location by wifi stations? I BET google receiving GPS data from users while they are connected to WIFI networks.
And then there's things like this below... ahh
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071116-its-official-google-planning-700mhz-bid.html
Who knows, but I think as far as cell tower based aGPS is concerned android sticks with the basics. It's one data packet sent to the tower, and one back, rather than setting up a connection making a database query and receiving a reply.
They probably envisioned something like...
Phone: Where am I?
Tower: Shiii I dunno where you aaat?
Phone: Grrr, Google! I am connected to wifi access point "ATT" with SSID:12345678945 Where am I?
Google: Looks like syrusfrost was there last week, he was at 32.12345/33.12345 and he used GPS satellites.....
I really don't know how google is doing the Wifi geolocation, they may be parsing some of the wardriving databases out there for the major metro areas, hell when you drive with maps and wifi on you may be wardriving for google, wouldn't that be interesting...

Mikey1022 said:
i never used the built in gpa, so far.
I use my bluetooth keychain gps. had it from my old excalibur.
works great
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hows the battery life?

GPS.....A-GPS SCAM?? The gps drama sequel....

****************************************************************
"EDIT" UPDATE (7 oct. 2010)
Well you dont need to go actually much further then this first post!
Things got out of context over here, furthermore I decided to give
my external gps receiver a break and run some more tests with
the internal one of my SGS.
And the results I got were much better than any
other phone I tested before. Except the ones with a build-in SirfstarIII chipset.
If you have Gps issues,Just move on to this thread:
2nd edit (20 Oct, 2010): That thread was removed without any warning or explanation so I posted the videos in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=8903056#post8903056
END EDIT
RCinFLA said:
Like to share my experience as cellphone chipset designer and my dealing with various parties involved with GPS in phones.
Many of the issues are caused by business interests involved and there are quite a few parties plying to control location based services revenue stream.
SUPL, secure user plane protocol AGPS was created by network operators interest in mine, with the objective of putting them in the controlling position when it comes to extracting revenue from location based applications on their network.
Control plane AGPS is a general system where network operator independent entities can create a assist server along with possible services offering. They can encrypt their access to allow only subcribed (paying) users to access their service. The network operators has little control over this scheme.
With SUPL, in most cases, network operators outsource the location server function. Network operator hold location of their cell tower, as a total database, in close confidence. The network tower locations are also very dynamic over time. I believe the AGPS contractors don't get reliable and timely updates from the network operators.
Then there are third party business like 'Skyhook' which is trying to work around the network operator roadblocks by establishing a 'ponzi scheme' server database. If your phone has a good GPS location lock and detects a WiFi network, Skyhook's background app will have your phone send a message to their server reporting the SSID of the WiFi and its location. They then sell their server AGPS service to other companies, like Motorola, for inclusion in their phone software. Motorola may run into conflict with network operators. A network operator might refuse to buy a Motorola phone model with Skyhook installed on it. I noticed from the Captivate forum that the ATT version of Galaxy S has Skyhook capability.
Google is the 900 pound gorilla and is trying to wrestle control of location based services from network operators.
Finally there are the GPS chip manufacturers. Almost all of them have an AGPS server scheme of their own and try to promote it. The frontend processing (up to recovery of raw 50 bps satellite data) has unique hardware and firmware that are considered proprietary by the GPS chip manufacturer. In most cases a phone manufacturers like Samsung or Motorola are not allowed to have the software source code for this firmware or information on the actual interface protocol to the GPS chip. They are given a bundled binary file that the phone manufacturer software just dumps to the GPS chip at startup.
It is now up to the phone manufacturer to implement the GPS chip and antenna systems (along with WiFI, Bluetooth, Near Field Comm, and multi-band cellular) and provide software interfaces and drivers necessary to run the GPS function.
For size and cost reasons most recent GPS chips rely on the main application processor within the phone to actually do the GPS fix calculations. The software for this is provided by the GPS chip supplier but it must be coordinated with the particular applications processor chip used by the phone. It must share processing time slicing with the apps processor and work with operating system software resources such as RAM and ROM management running on the phone.
This is the first obsticle as most of the GPS chip suppliers have little expertise in the OS's that may be used (like Android or Symbian). The phone manufacturer usually has to provide help to create and debug the GPS driver software but the drivers are responsible/owned by the GPS chip supplier. There can be unique hardware/software interfaces that must be dealt with, like providing GPS TCXO calibration and cellular corrected frequency timebase to the GPS chip.
Then there is the OS's GPS interface. There can be translation software layers involved here. One such interface is based on GPS NMEA protocol but with additional hooks for things unique to phone operation like battery saver power strobing, and the complicated Secure User Plane or Control plane interface.
The AGPS system design landscape is litered with intellectual properties (patents) by many parties. Qualcomm is a dominate player here since their aquistion of SnapTrak company years ago. Royalties are paid to Qualcomm for every WCDMA phone sold, not only in AGPS area, but on basic CDMA patents used in a UMTS (Wideband CDMA) phones.
Now as to Samsung Galaxy S implementation of Broadcom GPS.
I think there is a lot of evidence that Samsung had early issues with the GPS antenna contact hardware. This has probably been corrected on recently manufactured phones.
I think the firmware supplied by Broadcom has the bandwidth of the correlators tighted down to provide greater sensitivity. This is great as long as there is a very good AGPS system to provide initial satellite ephemeris data. Without a good AGPS network providing satellite information the initial search and lock can take a very long time with narrow bandwidth frequency bins.
I have not seen evidence with my experience that my two Vibrants are receiving any reliable AGPS information from the T-Mobile network. They do seem to get rough Almanac satellite info from Google or other third party apps. These may be based on WiFi detection more then T-Mobile cell tower locations.
In LBStest I noticed that GPS Operational Mode has been set to 'Standalone'. I interpret this to mean AGPS is deactived. I don't see any difference when I switch to MS based assist, and clear the GPS saved memory to prevent it from prejudicing time to first fix lock test. Switching SUPL server to supl.google.com and port 7276 (with MS based operational setting) just seems to make my phone lockup for short periods of time.
Once phone does get full lock on satellites its performance is quite good. (my two Vibrant's were purchased in early Feb 2011). It rivals my Garmin SiRFstar III based GPS unit in locked on sensitivity while inside a building.
I think the AGPS system issues will get worked out over time.
The Qualcomm based CDMA2000 systems (like Verizon) will likely have better initial coordination on AGPS system operation. CDMA2000 also provides network timebase directly compatible with GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*******************************************************************
All this nagging about GPS.....that it is not working in many devices and it's working in other many.....and of course I am talking about those ones who still would go for ONLINE gps navigation.....
In my humble opinion, what you guys should be asking yourselfs and the big corporations is, why nowadays, 99% of the smartphones(so not just sgs), even the most expensive ones are build with weak, less capable internal gps receivers, forcing users to go online(celular network /a-gps) or using external bluetooth gps receivers to get stable satellite fixes that means stable navigation.
Years ago, many of the first smartphones came with sirfstar chipsets or alike , so once again, why not now? That's the question that should not be ignored or forgotten.
A friend of mine, that would not dare to pay more than a 100 box for a phone, bought an ancient ETEN device on a sale for 40 box with that old windows mobile 5 and guess what...the internal gps get fast fixes just like any standalone gps device because it got the same sirfstarIII chipset
Why the heck, the expensive so called high-end smartphones of today are not build with better gps chipsets? Why A-gps? So we are forced to get data accounts?
And what happens when I want to navigate abroad? Roaming?
For data transfer and internet I use wifi; I have it at home and I find hotspots everywhere...I will save those extra 120 euros(or more) per year (data account costs)
And nobody will force me to get one(internet/data account); not even for gps navigation that I so much use..
I use gps navigation only offline, using a external bluetooth device on a daily basis and, many times abroad; it works like a charm on my SGS; and I am talking about serious GPS car navigation software like iGo, Sygic, Navigon etc. .
Don't even use Google maps or alike.
I cannot tell you how my sgs is doing on online navigation, I dont have a data account so I wont even try it.
But once Samsung get this online gps navigation thing fixed, you guys should concentrate your energy on the real issue:
The A-gps scam
And for all the corporations out there: Just deliver a device with a capable gps chipset and you will sell millions..
And for all the users out there: Just get a good compact external bluetooth gps receiver and stop nagging....
Thanks to 3rd party developers, the Android OS on my SGS can be "fooled" and I can connect any navigation software to my bluetooth gps receiver threw programs like Bluetooth Gps Mouse Unlimited and Gps Provider.
I do have to " allow mock locations" at settings first...
« »

¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed

LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.

Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Secondly: I guess AGPS is a data feature, it uses the triangulation of cell towers and pulls information to assist a sat lock, but it is not really a different way of using GPS. Ultimately you still need to get a sat lock to use a GPS App.
So it may speed up this lock, but it won't replace it. It just means it'll take you a little longer to get a sat lock than without it.
So you have the choice use it or don;t use it, no-one is forcing you to use data.
Logicalstep

Oletros said:
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...

betoNL said:
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline

Exactly...already the first line of Wikipedia says it: "Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, is a system which can improve the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system."
There is, however, a related issue w/r/t A-GPS and a data account. Back on WinMo, I could download the ephemeris data to speed up the GPS fix for one week in advance (I think it was called QuickGPS or something on my HTC TouchHD, also had sth. like it on an old Eten). This allowed you to get a quick fix for said week, even without a data connection. Android, on the other hand, seems to download this data on the fly - meaning that if you don't have a data account you will experience a slow fix until your almanac has been filled "naturally" by the satellites you're seeing. I experienced that while on vacation this year without a roaming data contract - it took me a good 3-5 minutes to get the first fix and it was good from there on (well, as good as the SGS GPS gets ). I'd love to have some tool that does exactly what QuickGPS did, but I am not aware of anything like it.

TriC_101 said:
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.

xan said:
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can get a lock on 6-7 Sat no problem inside.... and so can lots of others.. don't know what your doing wrong but its not hard to get a lock inside.

Pics or it didnt happen

seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.

Idan73 said:
Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.

the GPS on the SGS works fine offline
i don't even have data on when going on long road trips
you just need an offline GPS software with maps, like CoPilot or some other one you like

xan said:
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure they do. Sgs warm lock is 5 to 10 seconds as well. To test get the lock first then turn of data and network lock then start gps.restart of the phone same as restart of the standalone counts as a cold boot and takes about minute.

xan said:
Pics or it didnt happen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here ya go.... I don't have to prove anything just look on youtube.. This is the phone on for just 10sec.. if I had waited it would get down to about 10 feet... this pic was taken in a room where I get the lowest signal. and I live in a Condo with 2 foot concrete walls.. I don't have a digital camera.. this was taken with my old Samsung dumb phone.. but it does prove you can get a lock inside no problem.. also if i'm in a house I can get 6-7 sats to lock in the condo 5 at the most in that room.

only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin

Polarfuchs said:
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL Trust me the walls and not thin.. i'm on the 10th floor of a 25 floor Condo complex. I get alot more signal is a house.. Now my X10 can get about 7 Sats locked in the same room. and down to 5 feet. but the point was you can get a lock inside..

I'll try it.
I live in a 3 stories house at ground floor. The shutters are down and I'm 1 meter away from the windows.
After 3 Minutes I get 5 sats in view but none used.
I'll hang on.

Even after 10 Minutes I only have 5 satellites in View and zero in Use.
So no fix for me.
The numbers on top of the bars are from 15 to 25.

Logicalstep said:
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of Tomtom devices got a SiRFstarIII™ GPS chipset
If the GS got such one the amount of GPS threads in this Forum would be reduced considerably
What is your awareness based on?
Oletros said:
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Idan73 said:
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
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LOL... Lets put things in perspective :
1) Wich car navigation software do you use
2) when you UNcheck wireless networks =a-gps(in location and security) and you CHECk "use GPS satellites = build-in gps receiver and then you go outside, you start your car navigation software in you gs( taking into consideration that you have the righ map installed) how long does it take to get a fix so you can start driving?
3) Do you know the difference between a cold and warm start? Why the heck some of you mention car lighters????
Please just answer me these 3 questions and meanwhile I will post some educative information

GPS on the XOOM

For you guys who already have the xoom please chime in.
I have a IPAD (dont judge me lol) and the "GPS" does not work while airborne; this is a big deal for me as i am a pilot.
Does the xoom gps only work when in cellphone range like the ipad or does it have a no kidding GPS chip?
On a side not i have no clue how apple gets away with selling the ipad as having GPS when it clearly is not TRUE GPS.

Since the wifi version will contain GPS as well, my guess is that it should work. I'll let you know once I get it in hand today.

When you look up on the Motorola website it states "aGPS" which is assisted GPS. IMO this means it uses regular GPS and other signals in addition. How that translates to airborne IDK. But surely the XOOM shouldn't be used for airplane navigation There's probably an iPad app for that ROFL

pyrator said:
For you guys who already have the xoom please chime in.
I have a IPAD (dont judge me lol) and the "GPS" does not work while airborne; this is a big deal for me as i am a pilot.
Does the xoom gps only work when in cellphone range like the ipad or does it have a no kidding GPS chip?
On a side not i have no clue how apple gets away with selling the ipad as having GPS when it clearly is not TRUE GPS.
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Xoom has the same gps. The chip works fine for following without a cell/wifi connection. To get actually directions you have to have a connection.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

its got its own gps chip. and it locks on instantly. and i mean instant. accurate to 4 meters according to google maps.
the only problem you would run into are the maps.
you would need the maps saved on the xoom. google maps can and does cache maps while on wifi, but if you deviate off the set path during the trip you won't be able to load any additional maps during the trip unless you can get a wifi or data connection.
so you would need a gps app that stores the maps on the device if you want it to function like a standard gps. i know there are some for the iphone, but i haven't looked into android 3rd party gps apps.

I think it depends on what you want to use it for. If you want google maps, then the maps program requires data use to show your location on the map. If you simply want Longitude and Latitude, then I'm sure you can get that with the GPS chip in the Xoom.
I've got the Xoom, and the GPS is a true GPS, not relying on cell towers or wifi to determine location. However, I don't know how well GPS works in a plane since I've never tried using a GPS device in a plane (I thought that wasn't allowed?)
Again, unless you have maps STORED on your device, data access is needed to download the maps in real time. Applications like TomTom store the maps on your device, but require an additional and substantial fee.

bwcorvus said:
Xoom has the same gps. The chip works fine for following without a cell/wifi connection. To get actually directions you have to have a connection.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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so what can you do with the gps chip with no connection?
is there anway to save a preloaded map and use your gps chip to locate yourself on the previously saved map?
EDIT: So then theoretically I can dev an app that will have maps saved on the phone for use with no signal?

You should be able to get an app that gives you the GPS coordinates. Everything else is based of stored data, like others mentioned.

RadDudeTommy said:
so what can you do with the gps chip with no connection?
is there anway to save a preloaded map and use your gps chip to locate yourself on the previously saved map?
EDIT: So then theoretically I can dev an app that will have maps saved on the phone for use with no signal?
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Uhmm, theoretically sure, but good luck getting the maps you're going to need, and starting from scratch would be hella painful. You would be better off purchasing a stand alone application with the maps. They usually run around $100, but I'm not sure what ones are available for Android.
They aren't normal maps, they're maps that contain location data, gps coordinates, etc.
Again, you can use a GPS app to pull your coordinates. Just do that and use a paper map to determine where you are? hehe

you might check out http://www.mapdroyd.com/

pyrator said:
For you guys who already have the xoom please chime in.
I have a IPAD (dont judge me lol) and the "GPS" does not work while airborne; this is a big deal for me as i am a pilot.
Does the xoom gps only work when in cellphone range like the ipad or does it have a no kidding GPS chip?
On a side not i have no clue how apple gets away with selling the ipad as having GPS when it clearly is not TRUE GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really want to know why you can't use the GPS (of your mobile device) while you're flying?
You're not a commercial pilot I hope!
I'm sorry I'm just having a hard time picturing my Continental Airlines pilot asking for directions from texas to california because he forgot his Ipad at home.

I know the app AlpineQuest uses maps that you yourself create from a list of already available maps and then you load them onto your device and select them from the application. Its primarily for hiking since some terrain does not offer a 3g signal. But I recommend you check that out.

Does you tried IGO ???
(propably no plane support )

Thanx
ok got my answer thank you!
Also the GPS on a device will not interfere with any aircraft electronics and is 100% ok during flight. AKA when not flying and riding along everyday for 4+ hours with nothing to do.

cwizardtx said:
You really want to know why you can't use the GPS (of your mobile device) while you're flying?
You're not a commercial pilot I hope!
I'm sorry I'm just having a hard time picturing my Continental Airlines pilot asking for directions from texas to california because he forgot his Ipad at home.
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Actually I am a FAA certified Commercial pilot, i have a degree from Embry-Riddle in Professional Aeronautics with dual minors in safety and business, over 275 combat hours alone just here in Afghanistan, so no that does not automatically mean you fly for the airlines.
Also you cannot use an unapproved system for your primary means of navigation. The only GPS you may use is an IFR approved unit with a current database. Also if you choose to go that route you must have a backup (VOR, NDB, etc).
See:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/02/faa-ipad/
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/06/new-airplane-should-motivate-apple-fanboys-to-be-pilots/
(just needs to be android not ipad)
The reason i ask is because when im not flying aka in the back aka a passenger, im bored and would like to be able to see where i am at on a map.
But thank you for contributing nothing to this post other than to launch a personnel attack against my creditability.
Rant over:
To everyone else who actually contributed to the post THANK YOU! I will try probably all of those apps lol. I just wish there was a FalconView port for android (open source DoD app designed for windows).

may it's out of civilian range, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Restrictions_on_civilian_use

Hi pyrator,
I too am a pilot (mind you, not FAA but on the other side of the pond) and I'm also very interested in using Android tabs for aviation.
Of course not IFR, but as a backup information in VFR should the Garmin fail (never did so far)
It would be very interesting to find out what the real capabilities of the onboard sensors are.
Take the gyro for example: if it doesn't drift, it might be an interesting source for a poor man's EADI (attitude indicator) should your vacuum pump quit. It all depends if it is influenced by accelerated flight (I've looked at a few apps that wanted to simulate an AI but they relied on the accelerometers and, in a coordinated turn, you got zilch)
I'm a programmer so I guess writing an application would be an option, but its much more fun if you're not alone....
What do you think?

GPS in the Xoom is standalone. It works with wifi and 3g off. I installed copilot and it works as well as all the tomtoms and garmins that I have used. U get a beautiful 10 inch gps.
Agps is based on cellular signals.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App

1. Non-commercial VFR (in the US) you can use anything you want. You don't even need a chart. If you have a chart, it must be current. This may apply to map data.
2. The prohibition against using Cell Phones, etc while flying (in the US) is not a FAA rule but a FCC rule. If your 3G unit is transmitting from a high altitude the Cell(s) on the ground have a hard time figuring out which cell you're in.
3. As a Pax aloft, put the Xoom in airplane mode (turns off the 3G) after you've loaded up map data for your intended area and (fuselage skin notwithstanding) you should be able to follow along just fine. Keeping the unit near a window may be necessary.

GPS in my xoom does not work without wifi.
I have read the threads and I am unable to make it work without wifi like driving. I have the maps incache, but the GPS signal does not show. The ipad does because I have use it multiple times. What to do. Many hours wasted.