Database Users

T-Mobile MDA (Wizard) GPS

New to the forums, and betting this is a stupid Question, but I was wondering if there was anyway to tap into the GPS locater(built in for emergency calls such as 911) and use that for a GPS application, If the Wizard even has one built in, I would imagine that it does, but anways wondering if its possible, and if anyone has any incite into how to use this/turn it on?

There's no GPS in the wizard.

markgamber said:
There's no GPS in the wizard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Emergency services can locate your phone fairly accurately using triangulation from the gsm phone masts, using network data. There was a company selling a tracking service such as this for mobile users a while back, but I forget the details.

yeah ran into that service a while back, but the main way to get to it was to buy two handsets and pay for their cheap data service and put the other handset in someones car or whatever and use the 1st handset to track them...

I think that navizon.com has a program like that. theres a trial version for free. Doesnt google maps also use that technology?

hmm try google map 2.0 they show u wat ur location is without GPS
try http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=349188

I've tried both of these apps and both aren't worth a crap to me. They get my location in the right state, heck even the right city...almost. But I can't get it to be consistent let alone even half right.
I tried em both out and would like to know what I have been doing wrong since everyone else says that they are "great."
Thanks,
Ivan

It's already been said, but get Google Map 2.0...I installed it a few days ago, and it's not bad. I'm usually within 2000ft. of the calculated location.
Bad Karma said:
I've tried both of these apps and both aren't worth a crap to me. They get my location in the right state, heck even the right city...almost. But I can't get it to be consistent let alone even half right.
I tried em both out and would like to know what I have been doing wrong since everyone else says that they are "great."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing you did wrong was expect triangulation to work like you're watching CSI. In the real world, there is signal bounce, interference from trees, buildings, and other radio transmissions, and a whole host of other nameless error-creating problems. Radio triangulation is severely limited, but considering this sort of feature wasn't even available as a free application (much less being built into a mapping software as robust as GMaps) until VERY recently, it's pretty good, if you don't have GPS. You can buy a dongle to attach to your MDA, or you can suck it up, and deal with generally inaccurate location.

Trying it again...I thought that I had 2.0 but maybe not...I'll let you know either way how it comes out this time.
-Ivan

Ok much better...however it is still like 4 miles!!! off.
Does it update when in travel or how/when will it become more accurate??
Thanks agian,
Ivan

Google Maps 2 has "My location"
I dunno if you knew but Google Maps has been updated now and it offers My location - which is pretty close what GPS does. It gets your position through cellular towers and then it locates you within half a mile if I'm not mistaken...
Try it and c if it works 4 u

Myrddin Wyllt said:
It's already been said, but get Google Map 2.0...I installed it a few days ago, and it's not bad. I'm usually within 2000ft. of the calculated location.
The only thing you did wrong was expect triangulation to work like you're watching CSI. In the real world, there is signal bounce, interference from trees, buildings, and other radio transmissions, and a whole host of other nameless error-creating problems. Radio triangulation is severely limited, but considering this sort of feature wasn't even available as a free application (much less being built into a mapping software as robust as GMaps) until VERY recently, it's pretty good, if you don't have GPS. You can buy a dongle to attach to your MDA, or you can suck it up, and deal with generally inaccurate location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually google maps DOES NOT use triangulation..it will just show ur position based on a single cell tower and the signal strength being calculated by your phone..

So I tried my Google Maps 2.0 on the fly today...
It told me that it wouldn't work because I did not have a "data connection" and that I needed to contact my "service provider" to be able to utilize that function... (Or some crap like that)
What am I doing wrong now??
Thanks guys,
Ivan

GPS Enabled??

Is it true that the mogul has GPS capabilities, but locked until the Rev A rom update?
Thanks.

Yes, it is true. Although nobody knows if it will be a full GPS, that will be able to be used in programs like google maps or tom tom. Or if it is going to be something that you have to have the sprint navigation pack for, and pay per use, or monthly. Also it will not be a standalone GPS, it is going to be AGPS, which only works where you have signal, as it doesnt communicate directly with the satellite, but instead uses the signal towers to. Hope this clarifies things for you.

killerkhatiby009 said:
Yes, it is true. Although nobody knows if it will be a full GPS, that will be able to be used in programs like google maps or tom tom. Or if it is going to be something that you have to have the sprint navigation pack for, and pay per use, or monthly. Also it will not be a standalone GPS, it is going to be AGPS, which only works where you have signal, as it doesnt communicate directly with the satellite, but instead uses the signal towers to. Hope this clarifies things for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not really true. We dont know if it will be AGPS. Furthermore,according to the spec on qualcoms website,the chipsets AGPS functions use both the tower AND the satellite for better coverage. In other words,if your not around the tower,it uses the satellites,and vice versa. Thats the whole POINT of agps,acording to qualcom.
At this point,according to qualcom,the chipset in the 6800 does in fact have full standalone GPS capability. It also has AGPS capability. Qualcom calls their setup GPSOne if I remember correctly. We have no idea what functionality sprint will unlock. If I had to guess, I think they will unlock full GPS functionality,but lock it down to programs that are signed by sprint. This is very easy under Java but I dont know how it works for windows mobile. If they do this,I think it might be rather easy to hack,either unlocking it for any program,or writing a program that accesses it and redirects it to the com port or something,but that is just speculation at this point.
In short,we know the Mogul has full GPS,thats a fact. We know sprint will unlock some part of that functionality. That can be taken as fact,because sprint and HTC have said so on their website. We dont know anything else,and anything else anyone tells you is most likely guesses and speculation.

I thought it only had AGPS, now that I know it has the possibility to use a full GPS, Im even more excited. I really hope they just unlock it fully for any programs use. If they get the GPS and Rev. A, the only thing missing from making this device perfect would be more RAM. I can't wait for the update.

Ways to locate current position(GPS, GPRS, SMS-locating etc)

I'm trying to develope an application for my Trinity, and I'm currently thinking of implementing a GPS function to track down my current position.
But: I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases, using GPRS-position(???) and also, I've seen a service that uses SMS(??? It says you can send a SMS to a server, and it will find out where you are...=)
Now, which one of these are pure misunderstandings, and which one does work?
I've heard of a application that that uses GSM-bases to triangling the position, and it actually works...
So my second part is, anyone knows how to implement this is C# ?

It can be done...
neofix said:
I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases, using GPRS-position(???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't help you on how to do it, but I know an app that does. Google Maps works this way. It finds my location within about 1Km using GPRS. I don't have GSP on my phone. It only works is some locations. For example, at my house (in a rural area) it doesn't work. I am guessing this is either because I have only one base providing service, or that base is missing certain features.
Good luck on finding a solution to implement this. It can be done somehow.

PhilD41 said:
I can't help you on how to do it, but I know an app that does. Google Maps works this way. It finds my location within about 1Km using GPRS. I don't have GSP on my phone. It only works is some locations. For example, at my house (in a rural area) it doesn't work. I am guessing this is either because I have only one base providing service, or that base is missing certain features.
Good luck on finding a solution to implement this. It can be done somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, that means that there is actually something called GPRS-positioning, now the 10 billion dollar question is how to implement this

Yes, the Google Maps "location" feature works well for me in USA. It locates the nearest cel towers to my device...good luck with your project.

i don't know about GPRS-positioning, but i do know for sure that Google Maps doesn't use it like PhilD41 said, Google Maps tries to figure out your location using cell phone towers around you. Cell Tower Triangulation, i think is the term. you can search that term and see how to implement it

Azimuth21 said:
i don't know about GPRS-positioning, but i do know for sure that Google Maps doesn't use it like PhilD41 said, Google Maps tries to figure out your location using cell phone towers around you. Cell Tower Triangulation, i think is the term. you can search that term and see how to implement it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh right then - Been trying to search bit for Cell Tower Triangulation, and found some interesting threads- unfortunatly for me, nonen that describes how to actually triangulate though But so far, I'm very thankfull for all the replies here

here is how it works:
http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/publications/Thesis/node12.html
and Iphone has already similar software... so if you want to back engineer it: http://technology.slashgeo.org/technology/08/01/03/0440258.shtml

mahsoud said:
here is how it works:
http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/publications/Thesis/node12.html
and Iphone has already similar software... so if you want to back engineer it: http://technology.slashgeo.org/technology/08/01/03/0440258.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe! Now, just to find a way to implement this... Still haven't managed to get any closer to a soultion... :|

Navizon Virtual GPS
Check this out, this program already does what you want:
http://www.navizon.com/navizon_v-gps.asp
It has tracking by gps and virtual gps (gsm bases, wifi)
Hope this helps!
Greetz Bas

neofix said:
I've heard there also are other metods to find out your position, by triangling the GSM-bases
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're thinking of Assisted GPS. You operator and cell towers' equipement needs to support this for it to work.

rev3nant said:
I think you're thinking of Assisted GPS. You operator and cell towers' equipement needs to support this for it to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! Thanks for the reply, I belive this is something else then assisted GPS... Since the A-GPS, as you said needs a A-GPS server on the operator-side, while triangulation only needs three cell towers.... (Less accuracy, but still)

bas.bootsveld said:
Check this out, this program already does what you want:
http://www.navizon.com/navizon_v-gps.asp
It has tracking by gps and virtual gps (gsm bases, wifi)
Hope this helps!
Greetz Bas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply!
This is the kind of feature I want to implement, but I need to find out how to do this in coding...

Hi,
some interesting for you i hope.
As far as I can work out GoogleMaps uses the navizon database to triangulate your position. Navizon uses freely donates gps+wifi data.
Here's my slightly informed opinion, from best to worst
connected/Inbuilt GPS: most accurate u will get
Navizon: probably as good as AGPS but i think better as it triangulates on phone mast details and (if u have wifi built in) wifi router details (see website for this cool feature)
A-GPS: next most accurate you will get.
No such thing as SMS/GPRS location. This is in fact a service provided by companies who use a mobile phone operators databases to triangulate your position (API licenses cost between £500 and £2000 in UK PER operator!!!) . So not much better than AGPS but a method (with a cost).
Can you do this in c#? yes. download Visual Studio 2008 90-day trial edition and you'll find a GPS application ready and waiting. Its a bit buggy but a g8 starting point.
If you simply want to get gps position for an app without having to code anything, you might want to wait a little and download my next GPSSpot application. It will save the current GPS position to a registry key for other apps to use.

seanpu1 said:
Hi,
some interesting for you i hope.
As far as I can work out GoogleMaps uses the navizon database to triangulate your position. Navizon uses freely donates gps+wifi data.
Here's my slightly informed opinion, from best to worst
connected/Inbuilt GPS: most accurate u will get
Navizon: probably as good as AGPS but i think better as it triangulates on phone mast details and (if u have wifi built in) wifi router details (see website for this cool feature)
A-GPS: next most accurate you will get.
No such thing as SMS/GPRS location. This is in fact a service provided by companies who use a mobile phone operators databases to triangulate your position (API licenses cost between £500 and £2000 in UK PER operator!!!) . So not much better than AGPS but a method (with a cost).
Can you do this in c#? yes. download Visual Studio 2008 90-day trial edition and you'll find a GPS application ready and waiting. Its a bit buggy but a g8 starting point.
If you simply want to get gps position for an app without having to code anything, you might want to wait a little and download my next GPSSpot application. It will save the current GPS position to a registry key for other apps to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! Nice reply sir!
But this really starts to stirr around my noodles - since I have a Iphone here, without a GPS, and it can give me a +- 100/200 m accuracy on where I'm using cell tower triangulation...
When it comes to the GPS-part, I've coded it finished, so I'm just so curious on how the author has done it... Is it using some sort of cell-tower location database? Hmm... I've tried to mail the developer, but without luck
But, when it comes to my app, I think NaviZone is the way to go...

if iPhone has wifi (which i believe it does) Navizone is the way forward. It will consume more power as your wifi has to be on. But it will only work in areas that have been "surveyed" by donating users.
(btw its also good to find local free hot-spots/unblocked wifi routers)
btw, cell-tower location databases have a VERY wide range in accuracy. Firstly its dependent on the accuracy of the cell knowing its own GPS position (big discussion came to my mind on how interesting that is, but I'll leave this out for now). Then dependent on the number of cells used in the calculation (the more cells the better.) So, inner city regions get fair to good accuracy, but out in the country accuracy drops to >1000m radius.
I'd be interested to know what the iPhone is like for accuracy out in the sticks, and whether they use NaviZone or a similar service.

agps rogers

how do i enable agps on my rogers elf plz help

Sadly Rogers touch Elf does not have GPS capabilities. The Vogue is the one with GPS. See Bell CDMA Touch otherwise known as the Vogue.

i know they dont have gps but i heard with 6.1 its to have agps
assisted gps ... which uses gprs not sat

Yes It Does
hotrod101 said:
Sadly Rogers touch Elf does not have GPS capabilities. The Vogue is the one with GPS. See Bell CDMA Touch otherwise known as the Vogue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi i do have software ,is call imobium,i dont know how to send it to u ,but it is such a gps on htc touch elf GSM from rogers. i bought one of those phones and i'm using imobium.
replay if u have another channel where i can send u the specs of the program and the posibility of sending u the program it self.
Good Luck.
Yami

If agps uses gprs not sat then would you incur heavy data use charges? I don't have any type of data plan (they are rediculous in price) besides, where I live, there is pretty much an open wifi hotspot anywhere I go so I have just been using the WIFI whenever I need to. I am interested in learning more. I did some googling and my understanding was that AGPS still required GPS. IF AGPS can work using GPRS Only, what can you do with that? Can you still use navigation software on the device and have turn by turn directions etc..., Can you use it to tell your speed altitude etc.. while driving? If you drive through a zone with no coverage, then AGPS would not work? There are several of these "Dead Zones" in my area in the North of Ontario Canada. (Dead zones for all cell phones no matter who your carrier is)
From what I have read there are a lot of phones that have AGPS however, most have it completely locked up so that there is no way to use it though. (Providers use it for their own purposes I guess - TO SPY ON US) I don't know about the Elf though. Haven't done that much research on it yet. Since there is no official WM 6.1 Rom release (For the Elf) to release the AGPS capabilities, maybe one of the custom roms from this site can do it. If it can be opened up for use with a ROM that is.

Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, enhances the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system. It is used extensively with GPS-capable cellular phones..... Taken from WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

Funnily enough, A-GPS did actually come out as a data based gps solution back when EDGE came to the scene.
But suddenly phones started coming out with their own GPS units installed. UH OH, the carriers said. This imense source of data revenue, is now going to go away.
What to do? What to do?
I GOT IT! We redefine what A-GPS is. Instead of being simply data capable phone tracking system, we take phones with existing, and fully functioning GPS units, convince people that we are actually "helping" the performance of the GPS units with our networks and VOILA, we make even more money than before.
FYI, A-GPS was actually basically the same technology that Google Maps now uses for their "My Location" which is to normalize or coordinate, your location from several cell towers, and have a pretty good approximation of where you are.
All that was required was software (ie MAPS) that could take advantage of this technology that existed from when cell phones came into being.
That is why if you were one of the early adopters of set technology (originally came out with CDMA 2000) companies, you would have noticed that your so called "A-GPS" was as good as your reception was.
So really the more modern A-GPS, should be called GPS-A-CellCOMPANIESmakeMONEY.
But my suggested name did not fly so they decided to stick with A-GPS.

GPS.....A-GPS SCAM?? The gps drama sequel....

****************************************************************
"EDIT" UPDATE (7 oct. 2010)
Well you dont need to go actually much further then this first post!
Things got out of context over here, furthermore I decided to give
my external gps receiver a break and run some more tests with
the internal one of my SGS.
And the results I got were much better than any
other phone I tested before. Except the ones with a build-in SirfstarIII chipset.
If you have Gps issues,Just move on to this thread:
2nd edit (20 Oct, 2010): That thread was removed without any warning or explanation so I posted the videos in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=8903056#post8903056
END EDIT
RCinFLA said:
Like to share my experience as cellphone chipset designer and my dealing with various parties involved with GPS in phones.
Many of the issues are caused by business interests involved and there are quite a few parties plying to control location based services revenue stream.
SUPL, secure user plane protocol AGPS was created by network operators interest in mine, with the objective of putting them in the controlling position when it comes to extracting revenue from location based applications on their network.
Control plane AGPS is a general system where network operator independent entities can create a assist server along with possible services offering. They can encrypt their access to allow only subcribed (paying) users to access their service. The network operators has little control over this scheme.
With SUPL, in most cases, network operators outsource the location server function. Network operator hold location of their cell tower, as a total database, in close confidence. The network tower locations are also very dynamic over time. I believe the AGPS contractors don't get reliable and timely updates from the network operators.
Then there are third party business like 'Skyhook' which is trying to work around the network operator roadblocks by establishing a 'ponzi scheme' server database. If your phone has a good GPS location lock and detects a WiFi network, Skyhook's background app will have your phone send a message to their server reporting the SSID of the WiFi and its location. They then sell their server AGPS service to other companies, like Motorola, for inclusion in their phone software. Motorola may run into conflict with network operators. A network operator might refuse to buy a Motorola phone model with Skyhook installed on it. I noticed from the Captivate forum that the ATT version of Galaxy S has Skyhook capability.
Google is the 900 pound gorilla and is trying to wrestle control of location based services from network operators.
Finally there are the GPS chip manufacturers. Almost all of them have an AGPS server scheme of their own and try to promote it. The frontend processing (up to recovery of raw 50 bps satellite data) has unique hardware and firmware that are considered proprietary by the GPS chip manufacturer. In most cases a phone manufacturers like Samsung or Motorola are not allowed to have the software source code for this firmware or information on the actual interface protocol to the GPS chip. They are given a bundled binary file that the phone manufacturer software just dumps to the GPS chip at startup.
It is now up to the phone manufacturer to implement the GPS chip and antenna systems (along with WiFI, Bluetooth, Near Field Comm, and multi-band cellular) and provide software interfaces and drivers necessary to run the GPS function.
For size and cost reasons most recent GPS chips rely on the main application processor within the phone to actually do the GPS fix calculations. The software for this is provided by the GPS chip supplier but it must be coordinated with the particular applications processor chip used by the phone. It must share processing time slicing with the apps processor and work with operating system software resources such as RAM and ROM management running on the phone.
This is the first obsticle as most of the GPS chip suppliers have little expertise in the OS's that may be used (like Android or Symbian). The phone manufacturer usually has to provide help to create and debug the GPS driver software but the drivers are responsible/owned by the GPS chip supplier. There can be unique hardware/software interfaces that must be dealt with, like providing GPS TCXO calibration and cellular corrected frequency timebase to the GPS chip.
Then there is the OS's GPS interface. There can be translation software layers involved here. One such interface is based on GPS NMEA protocol but with additional hooks for things unique to phone operation like battery saver power strobing, and the complicated Secure User Plane or Control plane interface.
The AGPS system design landscape is litered with intellectual properties (patents) by many parties. Qualcomm is a dominate player here since their aquistion of SnapTrak company years ago. Royalties are paid to Qualcomm for every WCDMA phone sold, not only in AGPS area, but on basic CDMA patents used in a UMTS (Wideband CDMA) phones.
Now as to Samsung Galaxy S implementation of Broadcom GPS.
I think there is a lot of evidence that Samsung had early issues with the GPS antenna contact hardware. This has probably been corrected on recently manufactured phones.
I think the firmware supplied by Broadcom has the bandwidth of the correlators tighted down to provide greater sensitivity. This is great as long as there is a very good AGPS system to provide initial satellite ephemeris data. Without a good AGPS network providing satellite information the initial search and lock can take a very long time with narrow bandwidth frequency bins.
I have not seen evidence with my experience that my two Vibrants are receiving any reliable AGPS information from the T-Mobile network. They do seem to get rough Almanac satellite info from Google or other third party apps. These may be based on WiFi detection more then T-Mobile cell tower locations.
In LBStest I noticed that GPS Operational Mode has been set to 'Standalone'. I interpret this to mean AGPS is deactived. I don't see any difference when I switch to MS based assist, and clear the GPS saved memory to prevent it from prejudicing time to first fix lock test. Switching SUPL server to supl.google.com and port 7276 (with MS based operational setting) just seems to make my phone lockup for short periods of time.
Once phone does get full lock on satellites its performance is quite good. (my two Vibrant's were purchased in early Feb 2011). It rivals my Garmin SiRFstar III based GPS unit in locked on sensitivity while inside a building.
I think the AGPS system issues will get worked out over time.
The Qualcomm based CDMA2000 systems (like Verizon) will likely have better initial coordination on AGPS system operation. CDMA2000 also provides network timebase directly compatible with GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*******************************************************************
All this nagging about GPS.....that it is not working in many devices and it's working in other many.....and of course I am talking about those ones who still would go for ONLINE gps navigation.....
In my humble opinion, what you guys should be asking yourselfs and the big corporations is, why nowadays, 99% of the smartphones(so not just sgs), even the most expensive ones are build with weak, less capable internal gps receivers, forcing users to go online(celular network /a-gps) or using external bluetooth gps receivers to get stable satellite fixes that means stable navigation.
Years ago, many of the first smartphones came with sirfstar chipsets or alike , so once again, why not now? That's the question that should not be ignored or forgotten.
A friend of mine, that would not dare to pay more than a 100 box for a phone, bought an ancient ETEN device on a sale for 40 box with that old windows mobile 5 and guess what...the internal gps get fast fixes just like any standalone gps device because it got the same sirfstarIII chipset
Why the heck, the expensive so called high-end smartphones of today are not build with better gps chipsets? Why A-gps? So we are forced to get data accounts?
And what happens when I want to navigate abroad? Roaming?
For data transfer and internet I use wifi; I have it at home and I find hotspots everywhere...I will save those extra 120 euros(or more) per year (data account costs)
And nobody will force me to get one(internet/data account); not even for gps navigation that I so much use..
I use gps navigation only offline, using a external bluetooth device on a daily basis and, many times abroad; it works like a charm on my SGS; and I am talking about serious GPS car navigation software like iGo, Sygic, Navigon etc. .
Don't even use Google maps or alike.
I cannot tell you how my sgs is doing on online navigation, I dont have a data account so I wont even try it.
But once Samsung get this online gps navigation thing fixed, you guys should concentrate your energy on the real issue:
The A-gps scam
And for all the corporations out there: Just deliver a device with a capable gps chipset and you will sell millions..
And for all the users out there: Just get a good compact external bluetooth gps receiver and stop nagging....
Thanks to 3rd party developers, the Android OS on my SGS can be "fooled" and I can connect any navigation software to my bluetooth gps receiver threw programs like Bluetooth Gps Mouse Unlimited and Gps Provider.
I do have to " allow mock locations" at settings first...
« »

¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed

LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.

Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Secondly: I guess AGPS is a data feature, it uses the triangulation of cell towers and pulls information to assist a sat lock, but it is not really a different way of using GPS. Ultimately you still need to get a sat lock to use a GPS App.
So it may speed up this lock, but it won't replace it. It just means it'll take you a little longer to get a sat lock than without it.
So you have the choice use it or don;t use it, no-one is forcing you to use data.
Logicalstep

Oletros said:
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...

betoNL said:
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline

Exactly...already the first line of Wikipedia says it: "Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, is a system which can improve the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system."
There is, however, a related issue w/r/t A-GPS and a data account. Back on WinMo, I could download the ephemeris data to speed up the GPS fix for one week in advance (I think it was called QuickGPS or something on my HTC TouchHD, also had sth. like it on an old Eten). This allowed you to get a quick fix for said week, even without a data connection. Android, on the other hand, seems to download this data on the fly - meaning that if you don't have a data account you will experience a slow fix until your almanac has been filled "naturally" by the satellites you're seeing. I experienced that while on vacation this year without a roaming data contract - it took me a good 3-5 minutes to get the first fix and it was good from there on (well, as good as the SGS GPS gets ). I'd love to have some tool that does exactly what QuickGPS did, but I am not aware of anything like it.

TriC_101 said:
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.

xan said:
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
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Click to collapse
I can get a lock on 6-7 Sat no problem inside.... and so can lots of others.. don't know what your doing wrong but its not hard to get a lock inside.

Pics or it didnt happen

seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.

Idan73 said:
Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast)
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Click to collapse
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.

the GPS on the SGS works fine offline
i don't even have data on when going on long road trips
you just need an offline GPS software with maps, like CoPilot or some other one you like

xan said:
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
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Click to collapse
Sure they do. Sgs warm lock is 5 to 10 seconds as well. To test get the lock first then turn of data and network lock then start gps.restart of the phone same as restart of the standalone counts as a cold boot and takes about minute.

xan said:
Pics or it didnt happen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here ya go.... I don't have to prove anything just look on youtube.. This is the phone on for just 10sec.. if I had waited it would get down to about 10 feet... this pic was taken in a room where I get the lowest signal. and I live in a Condo with 2 foot concrete walls.. I don't have a digital camera.. this was taken with my old Samsung dumb phone.. but it does prove you can get a lock inside no problem.. also if i'm in a house I can get 6-7 sats to lock in the condo 5 at the most in that room.

only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin

Polarfuchs said:
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
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Click to collapse
LOL Trust me the walls and not thin.. i'm on the 10th floor of a 25 floor Condo complex. I get alot more signal is a house.. Now my X10 can get about 7 Sats locked in the same room. and down to 5 feet. but the point was you can get a lock inside..

I'll try it.
I live in a 3 stories house at ground floor. The shutters are down and I'm 1 meter away from the windows.
After 3 Minutes I get 5 sats in view but none used.
I'll hang on.

Even after 10 Minutes I only have 5 satellites in View and zero in Use.
So no fix for me.
The numbers on top of the bars are from 15 to 25.

Logicalstep said:
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
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Most of Tomtom devices got a SiRFstarIII™ GPS chipset
If the GS got such one the amount of GPS threads in this Forum would be reduced considerably
What is your awareness based on?
Oletros said:
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
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Idan73 said:
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... Lets put things in perspective :
1) Wich car navigation software do you use
2) when you UNcheck wireless networks =a-gps(in location and security) and you CHECk "use GPS satellites = build-in gps receiver and then you go outside, you start your car navigation software in you gs( taking into consideration that you have the righ map installed) how long does it take to get a fix so you can start driving?
3) Do you know the difference between a cold and warm start? Why the heck some of you mention car lighters????
Please just answer me these 3 questions and meanwhile I will post some educative information