Database Users

Question about GPS

I don't own this phone, but was considering switching from Cingular's GSM network to Sprint's CDMA so that I can use high speed EV-DO, since I have no idea when Cingular's UMTS or HSDPA upgrade will happen.
Anywho... getting back on track to my question. It says that this phone has a GPS chip, which is used for E-911 location. Can this chip be used by navigation software, such as TomTom? Or is it only utilized when you dial 911?
I currently have the HTC Beetles (HP iPAQ 6515b) and it has a built-in GPS antenna that I just love, and would like to get another phone that still has this feature.

The GPS info is not available for mapping programs.

Correct.
ran-o-matic said:
The GPS info is not available for mapping programs.
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At this time that information is unavailable. Please see posts at
http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/ppc-6700-xv6700/73387-possible-access-gps-data-6700-a-1.html
It's nine pages as of current date. No answers yet.

GPS to be unlocked by Sprint in Q4

I was told by my friend who works at Sprint today that they will be unlocking the GPS in Quarter 4 of this year.
She said that originally they did not unlock it as they were having issues with the hardware and software, but are prepping to unlock it soon to us.
Sorry if this has been put out there already, but thought I would share what I heard. hopeful anyway, huh?

Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.

Dishe said:
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
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This person is a software engineer at Sprint, and she said that the reason they didn't have it unlocked in the beginning was due to a hardware/software conflict, but that it will be unlocked in an upcoming ROM update. She said that Sprint had announced it somewhere internally.

I have a few contacts in sprint, I'll try verifying this tommorow

From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
On the bright side, it shares the same Qualcomm 7200 chip that the Kaiser will use.
Some maintain that the Kaiser has built in GPS, others claim it has no satellite antenna and requires an external antenna.
Sprint originally advertised the phone as having GPS. Now that has been removed from their advertisement.
It will be ineresting to see what will happen with the evdo rev. a upgrade later this year.

rambo6 said:
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
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Exactly. The bottom line from what I understand is that the Mogul does not have the built-in hardware to do full GPS that will work with independent mapping software (Google, etc).

[RANT]This is getting a bit old - people claiming that A-GPS does not work off satellites.
Please do some research before posting this type of mis-information.
A-GPS is Assisted GPS. It uses information from the cellular network to ASSIST the GPS for faster TTFF.
And the Mogul uses a different chipset than the Kaiser. One uses the 7200, while the other 7500.[/RANT]

Ok... so now that you ranted... is it your opinion that the Mogul will or will not be able to do full GPS?
And actually.... A-GPS doesn't directly work off of the satellites. Since it takes a long time for a cell phone device to download the positioning data from the GPS satellites, what the A-GPS system does is let the A-GPS servers at the cell towers download and accumulate the data, the cell phones then talk to the A-GPS servers to get the data (which happens within seconds).

When A-GPS is enabled, would it have the possibility to work with Mobile GMaps ? Or is the Java still restricted?

Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.

I AM POSTING THIS FOR THE LAST TIME
The Mogul has the Qualcomm msm7500 as its cpu. BUILT INTO the cpu is the gpsone chipset. This is able to achieve AGPS as well as GPS. It runs in 4 different modes. To have the serial link to work with applications the chipset must be run in standalone mode.
It is on the damn phone as it is part of the cpu! It is currently not in standalone mode so there is no way to access the chip. The only true thing up in the air is whether or not the phone can obtain a satellite lock in standalone mode.

Dishe said:
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
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Correct, like almost every modern cell phone, A-GPS is enabled. There is no debate there.
I agree with you regarding speculation on the "stand-alone GPS" aspect. I've never seen definitive info from HTC that says yes or no on this subject. If there is real info regarding this, some links would be nice.

HTC's site says:
It is widely rumored that this phone has a GPS chip that has been disabled. Will there be a hack or workaround to enable GPS capabilities?
Answer: Not likely, it is AGPS which requires a connected call to get data location.
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Sonix6 said:
HTC's site says:
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thats from their wiki site, so its not necessarily true
/me keeps fingers crossed

This would be good news. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for this.

gpsone (in most all msm chipsets including kaiser and mogul):
How gpsOne Works:
The gpsOne technology functions in four different modes of operation. Chosen automatically or specified by software, the
four modes are Standalone GPS, Mobile Station (MS)-based, MS-assisted and MS-assisted/Hybrid. In the A-GPS modes,
gpsOne technology utilizes assistance data from a location server in the wireless network in combination with A-GPS circuitry
and software in the wireless device.
Note: The common term used by standards bodies for the handset/terminal device in CDMA2000 is "Mobile Station" (MS) and in WCDMA (UMTS)/GPRS/GSM/HSDPA/EDGE is
“User Equipment” (UE). For simplicity in this document, references to the handset/terminal will be "MS," but this use implies both MS and UE.
Standalone GPS: The GPS receiver calculates a position without using any assistance data and without a connection to
the wireless network.
MS-Based: The GPS receiver calculates the position using assistance data from a location server to increase cold-start
sensitivity and reduce the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted: The GPS receiver uses assistance data from a location server to make measurements related to its distance
from the GPS satellites, then sends this information to the location server where the position is calculated. This mode also
increases cold start sensitivity and reduces the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted/Hybrid: Wireless network information is added to GPS measurements as part of the position calculation by
the location server, integrating the relative strengths of GPS information and available wireless network location information
for increased positioning reliability in difficult GPS environments.
In assisted operation, a gpsOne-enabled handset receives
a small “assistance data” message from a network location
server using standardized protocols
• The handset then reads information from GPS satellites to
measure its distance from all the satellites it can see (called
“ranging” information).
• The handset then uses this ranging information to create a
position “fix,” or sends the ranging information back to the
server where it can be combined with network information
to produce an even better fix.
• gpsOne also operates in Standalone mode, without requiring
any assistance data from the network
straight from the gpsOne document.

interesting indeed... question is, will Sprint release firmware that allows it to run in standalone mode?
I suppose the truth is, even if it doesn't, someone can figure out how to enable it with some sort of hack eventually since its just software controlled according to this document.

has anyone played with this reg key?
\HKCU\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction\CDMA\GPSOneSetting = 0
Edit: the value does not contain a space between "GPSOne" and "Setting", but vbulletin modifies my text when i post....

I don't know if this info helps or not... I spoke to a HTC TS and they told me the 6800 has GPS but is sprint decision to enable it or not. He also told me that it can be unlock but sprint is the only one with the code and he can not provide me with that info.

New poster old reader, may be found some info.
I found Many info that may me can help somebodies about the msm 7500 (gpsOne technologie)...It is hard to know what to believe 'cause half/half
people say that this is impossible, and the other half say that gonna happen soon. I think that we should make our own idea by our own knowledge . I found many topic on many forum (htc, gpsunderground,here...ask me if interressed) One Qualcomm offical site i've got pdf about msm chips, and gpsOne tech... (Snap track location service for gpsOne may be a good start point to invest)
Interessing link's:
FCC test repport for tita100 (titan) (That include plane mode settings):
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id=
Here it seem to be codes:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/CNI FD-800 gpsOne Menual ver1 0_0117.pdf
Similar:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/FD-800_Application_Guide ver1 0(1).pdf
And found other about SDK from Qualcomm API's seem to be aivalaible to third party dev. Also seem to be hard to be registred as dev. But hope...
And if internal budies have code it is just a time question before a solution.
So i wish that i'm not making more mistake or false info...if tell me.
And for gps freak who will tell that different anthenna needed, diffrent frequencies for GPS...see the end of the document FD-800 manual (2nd link).
So thank for this helpfull forum, forgive my poor english expression, and lack of programming knoledge , my is disignig pcb, and electrical pannels, but not to programme them's( not enough )...

Can anyone take a picture of the supposed GPS sensor

I was going to take apart my sprint touch but don't have the right size torx wrench. Can anybody take some shots of the inside to show where the GPS device might possibly be.
I didn't see anything in the FCC filing so I am starting to get doubtful that GPS is included and fear it may be telenav that Sprint will use instead.

MSM7500 Chipset has the GPS chip inside of it. Go check qualcom's site, and you will see it has the GPS/REv. A radio in it. Then check your phone's chipset in teh phone's menu. There you will see it runs the MSM7500.. So yes it has GPS. THe only question is wil sprint limit its capabilties???

The GPSOne chip is integrated into the MSM7500, but if the Touch is missing the GPS antenna it could still be a no-go.

bedoig said:
The GPSOne chip is integrated into the MSM7500, but if the Touch is missing the GPS antenna it could still be a no-go.
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They took pictures of the inside of the Titan and said it didn't have a GPS antenna, but were wrong. Either the CDMA or the Bluetooth antenna is also the GPS antenna. I can't remember which right now.

We had this issue with the titan as well. People would suggest that it had GPS or ask if it would be activated and of course people would respond in a condescending tone telling them it didnt have it. It turns out it does and I strongly suspect that the Vogue has the same,as it is a very similar phone. In fact,I read that someone got the vogue radio rom to work on the titan. If thats the case it might work the other way and you could get GPS and Rev A now,by using the leaked titan rom. (Of course you could brick the phone as well) I dont know all the specifics,and certainly dont know that much about the vogue (I have a titan) but it might be worth checking the titan forums.

pflatlyne said:
We had this issue with the titan as well. People would suggest that it had GPS or ask if it would be activated and of course people would respond in a condescending tone telling them it didnt have it. It turns out it does and I strongly suspect that the Vogue has the same,as it is a very similar phone. In fact,I read that someone got the vogue radio rom to work on the titan. If thats the case it might work the other way and you could get GPS and Rev A now,by using the leaked titan rom. (Of course you could brick the phone as well) I dont know all the specifics,and certainly dont know that much about the vogue (I have a titan) but it might be worth checking the titan forums.
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** This is a challenge for Musicman247 !! **

I never meant to imply that the Touch doesn't have GPS capability, just that it is not 100% certain yet. People did miss the GPS antenna on the Titan, but it was there. I really do hope the Touch is GPS capable, my wife has one.
JDillard and a couple others have said they are running radio 3.27 on their Touch. It doesn't appear to have done anything though. No Rev A and no GPS still. It appears there are some critical components built into the ROM that enable those funtions. Seems strange that radio 3.27 will run on the Touch without ROM 3.16. On the Titan you need both installed to even get the phone to boot.
Here's hoping for GPS and Rev A on the Touch soon!

GPSone antenna
The reason why you couldnt find the antenna inside the touch is because it is a GPSone chip, not regular GPS. It uses the cell towers to make an approximation of where you are, it is not like regular GPS as it does not communicate directly with GPS satelites (hence no need for a GPS antenna).

GpsOne uses A-GPS, which means satellites plus cell towers. This improves positioning information when satellite signal quality is poor, especially when indoors. You'll still know where you are in the middle of the Pacific; you just won't be able to make any calls.

Martin Blank said:
GpsOne uses A-GPS, which means satellites plus cell towers. This improves positioning information when satellite signal quality is poor, especially when indoors. You'll still know where you are in the middle of the Pacific; you just won't be able to make any calls.
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That is why when I get a fix and go in the house it shows me going across the floor inside the house. This is with Google Maps turned on and use GPS checked and then show my location. It does work and can get a fix most times with many satellites but sometimes it just won't work so it is really iffy. I get a fix about 70% so not too bad. I am with Alltel and have the MP6900 HTC Touch and think this is the Vogue but have never found out for sure.

agps rogers

how do i enable agps on my rogers elf plz help

Sadly Rogers touch Elf does not have GPS capabilities. The Vogue is the one with GPS. See Bell CDMA Touch otherwise known as the Vogue.

i know they dont have gps but i heard with 6.1 its to have agps
assisted gps ... which uses gprs not sat

Yes It Does
hotrod101 said:
Sadly Rogers touch Elf does not have GPS capabilities. The Vogue is the one with GPS. See Bell CDMA Touch otherwise known as the Vogue.
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hi i do have software ,is call imobium,i dont know how to send it to u ,but it is such a gps on htc touch elf GSM from rogers. i bought one of those phones and i'm using imobium.
replay if u have another channel where i can send u the specs of the program and the posibility of sending u the program it self.
Good Luck.
Yami

If agps uses gprs not sat then would you incur heavy data use charges? I don't have any type of data plan (they are rediculous in price) besides, where I live, there is pretty much an open wifi hotspot anywhere I go so I have just been using the WIFI whenever I need to. I am interested in learning more. I did some googling and my understanding was that AGPS still required GPS. IF AGPS can work using GPRS Only, what can you do with that? Can you still use navigation software on the device and have turn by turn directions etc..., Can you use it to tell your speed altitude etc.. while driving? If you drive through a zone with no coverage, then AGPS would not work? There are several of these "Dead Zones" in my area in the North of Ontario Canada. (Dead zones for all cell phones no matter who your carrier is)
From what I have read there are a lot of phones that have AGPS however, most have it completely locked up so that there is no way to use it though. (Providers use it for their own purposes I guess - TO SPY ON US) I don't know about the Elf though. Haven't done that much research on it yet. Since there is no official WM 6.1 Rom release (For the Elf) to release the AGPS capabilities, maybe one of the custom roms from this site can do it. If it can be opened up for use with a ROM that is.

Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, enhances the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system. It is used extensively with GPS-capable cellular phones..... Taken from WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

Funnily enough, A-GPS did actually come out as a data based gps solution back when EDGE came to the scene.
But suddenly phones started coming out with their own GPS units installed. UH OH, the carriers said. This imense source of data revenue, is now going to go away.
What to do? What to do?
I GOT IT! We redefine what A-GPS is. Instead of being simply data capable phone tracking system, we take phones with existing, and fully functioning GPS units, convince people that we are actually "helping" the performance of the GPS units with our networks and VOILA, we make even more money than before.
FYI, A-GPS was actually basically the same technology that Google Maps now uses for their "My Location" which is to normalize or coordinate, your location from several cell towers, and have a pretty good approximation of where you are.
All that was required was software (ie MAPS) that could take advantage of this technology that existed from when cell phones came into being.
That is why if you were one of the early adopters of set technology (originally came out with CDMA 2000) companies, you would have noticed that your so called "A-GPS" was as good as your reception was.
So really the more modern A-GPS, should be called GPS-A-CellCOMPANIESmakeMONEY.
But my suggested name did not fly so they decided to stick with A-GPS.

[Q] integrated GPS on both Rogers and AT&T Focus

Does both Rogers and AT&T Samsung Focus have a built in GPS (don't need a data plan)? Ever site I've looked at for the specs gives conflicting information.

fastmhc said:
Does both Rogers and AT&T Samsung Focus have a built in GPS (don't need a data plan)? Ever site I've looked at for the specs gives conflicting information.
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As I understand, my focus at&t has built in GPS that can be used with and without a data plan. It just depends what GPS software you are using for instance any GPS software that uses realtime updates or online maps requires data to be used while GPS is enabled...some 3rd party software use stored on device offline maps that would not require a data plan. As for specific programs that use online and offline maps I don't know. I use a data plan so I don't have to worry about that stuff.
This is my understanding so if anyone has better insight be my guest

All WP7 phones have a GPS, just like they all have a camera, three front buttons, a gravity sensor, proximity sensor, ambient light sensor and a compass. There are free GPS apps that are on the Marketplace that will allow you to see the GPS does work.
In time, there will be standalone gps navigation apps for sale on the Marketplace, it just takes a little patience.

I just don't want assisted GPS (A-GPS). I want an integrated GPS chip. All phones dont' have a built in GPS (I think older iphones). I currently have a Samsung i8910 and it has an integrated GPS. I bought Garmin software to use the GPS maps and when I am overseas I just need to buy the maps for that region to access the maps. If you have A-GPS you have to buy a data plan from that country's carrier and using their network, you access the internet (google maps) to get your maps. I hope that is clear??

You totally misunderstood what A-GPS is.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Maybe I don't? this is a quote for the wiki page for GPS navigation for phones
" Some phones with GPS capability work by assisted GPS (A-GPS) only, and do not function when out of range of their carrier's cell towers. "

WP7's have A-GPS. They use both radio towers and satellites to obtain a fix on your location.
So yes, once a proper mapping application is released, you can travel to other countries without needing a data plan.

From wiki, sums it up pretty well i would say:
""Standalone" or "Autonomous" GPS operation use radio signals from satellites alone. A-GPS additionally uses network resources to locate and utilize the satellites faster as well as better in poor signal conditions."
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS

fastmhc said:
Maybe I don't? this is a quote for the wiki page for GPS navigation for phones
" Some phones with GPS capability work by assisted GPS (A-GPS) only, and do not function when out of range of their carrier's cell towers. "
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Most of today's cell phone GPS chips can work either in standalone mode or Assited mode. A(ssited)-GPS helps to speed up your initial satellite lock by downloading satellite information from network. If you have no data connection, the chip will fall back to standalone mode. With A-GPS properly working, you can achive first lock within 10 seconds. Without it, you may have to wait for couple minutes for your first lock. After the initial lock these GPS chips work autonomously unless you use MS-Assited A-GPS mode. With the power of today's Smartphone, there is zero reason for using MS-Assisted mode unless you're using it in E911 situations.
It is ultimately the navigation software you choose determines whether or not you need cell data connection. Currently standalone navigation software on WP7 is quite limited or non-existent. If that is important to you, you may want to look for other Smartphones like iPhone or Android phones. Your old WM software won't work in WP7.