Related
Do you have ultrasoft Money for Windows mobile Cracker?
Ahem:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=221545
11. No Piracy
We don't tolerate piracy facilitated through this board. What you do in your own time is your business, but this is a publicly used resource and we don't want to be threatened with legal action. Please, use common sense and respect the forum, its users, and those coders that write great code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Warez is forbidden on this forum. Do not ask for it, do not post the links to it, do not post warez here. You only get one warning then ban.
We don't want to be threatened with legal action.
THEY will sue us, and come after YOU. YOU cannot escape THEM. THEY will find you, and take proper action.
KarhU said:
Warez is forbidden on this forum. Do not ask for it, do not post the links to it, do not post warez here. You only get one warning then ban.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK thank you very much!!!
May I ask, does the cracking the ROM is allowed and permitted by the manufacturer? Or is this also another form of hacking... just askin...
Yagbadoodles said:
May I ask, does the cracking the ROM is allowed and permitted by the manufacturer? Or is this also another form of hacking... just askin...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you not read my post?
We don't want to be threatened with legal action.
THEY will sue us, and come after YOU. YOU cannot escape THEM. THEY will find you, and take proper action.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read it, that is why I am asking because I saw some ROM modification topics hosted here.
mr_deimos said:
Ahem:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=221545
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I read it, that is why I am asking because I saw some ROM modification topics hosted here.
ROM modification is regarded as OK, because you can not buy the ROM in a shop or online (same goes for HTC software here), but cracking apps that are commercially available is a big no no here. Note that ROMs are not stored on this forum because of the possible legal actions too.
KarhU said:
ROM modification is regarded as OK, because you can not buy the ROM in a shop or online (same goes for HTC software here), but cracking apps that are commercially available is a big no no here. Note that ROMs are not stored on this forum because of the possible legal actions too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, ROM is not saved on this forum, becuase this is a forum and not a file hosting server e.g. rapidshare and mega upload. And Nielson admitted that modifying the ROM is not legal and it means unethical. But still the this forum is referencing the hosted ROM from the hosting server (RapidShare). And from the title itself of this thread "Development and Hacking", it pertains to hacking... just confused.
KarhU said:
ROM modification is regarded as OK, because you can not buy the ROM in a shop or online (same goes for HTC software here), but cracking apps that are commercially available is a big no no here. Note that ROMs are not stored on this forum because of the possible legal actions too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Question, does ROM modification is permitted by the manufacturer? Do they allow this and endorse this? If not, then it is not legal...
Question, does ROM modification is permitted by the manufacturer? Do they allow this and endorse this? If not, then it is not legal...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yes and no. There has been an interesting conversation about warez in this thread.
Illegal or not ROM hacking does not damage sales of the device or OS manufacturer (as you buy the licence to OS by buying the device and OS itself is not commercially available) as opposed to warez. ROMs were hosted at this forum until M$ demanded them to be pulled last year. Legality or illegality of ROM hacking is a hard quaetion to answer - try to post your questions and objections to the thread I linked.
One reply for all from the abovementioned thread.
KarhU said:
Well yes and no. There has been an interesting conversation about warez in this thread.
Illegal or not ROM hacking does not damage sales of the device or OS manufacturer (as you buy the licence to OS by buying the device and OS itself is not commercially available) as opposed to warez. ROMs were hosted at this forum until M$ demanded them to be pulled last year. Legality or illegality of ROM hacking is a hard quaetion to answer - try to post your questions and objections to the thread I linked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thnanks anyway....
Yagbadoodles said:
Thnanks anyway....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are welcome. Welcome to this forum. Observe the rules and you will find a lot of interesting stuff going on over here. Many great freeware pocket PC apps were created here on xda devs - S2U2, Battery Status Today plugin, FTouchFlo... I know it is not what you were looking for, but this place has lots to offer anyway.
Mga pinoy talaga pasaway!
Sorry for posting in our native language.. I just felt the need to say it. I'll just summarize:
ROMS are "not for sale". It's bundled with our devices. We just modify it to work better. No piracy.
Giving software that are "for sale" for free is piracy.
WAREZ = piracy.
DaVince said:
Mga pinoy talaga pasaway!
Sorry for posting in our native language.. I just felt the need to say it. I'll just summarize:
ROMS are "not for sale". It's bundled with our devices. We just modify it to work better. No piracy.
Giving software that are "for sale" for free is piracy.
WAREZ = piracy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But, does ROM can be treat as Open Source? If yes, we don't have issues; but re-engineering the software like ROM is prohibited as per manufacturer's EULA. Yes it is free and if the goal if for goodness, does it compensate the violation of EULA Terms and Conditions? Still it is un-ethical.
It is not just as simple as "Not For Sale" means no Piracy.
Let's just call it a grey legal area, and be grateful that MS and the various hardware manufacturers don't attempt to crack down on it.
ummmmmmmmmmm,
I found some cracked or hacked or prepaid "what ever u wanna call it " apps in the internet. So my question is: Is it okay to download it? or i might have some problems with android or google?
Thx
Meshal-USA said:
ummmmmmmmmmm,
I found some cracked or hacked or prepaid "what ever u wanna call it " apps in the internet. So my question is: Is it okay to download it? or i might have some problems with android or google?
Thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's piracy.
And moreover, android people are introducing a new licensing mechanism where the app can lookup whether it's actually bought and paid for, or not - http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/07/licensing-service-technology-highlights.html
Meshal-USA said:
ummmmmmmmmmm,
I found some cracked or hacked or prepaid "what ever u wanna call it " apps in the internet. So my question is: Is it okay to download it? or i might have some problems with android or google?
Thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. post here, not bad
You think Android devs are rich people, havin houses in Hollywood Hills, right ?!
Support devs and you get good apps!
to answer your question, no it will not break your phone...as a former notorious "cracked" app downloader (since paid for the ones I support and uninstalled the ones I do not use due to my commitment to the community as a user) I can't wait for this licensing to be widespread...I see too many people handing out links to piracy sites and also linking the damn things in app comments...but yea.
it won't break ur phone...
Mokurex said:
It's piracy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reallyyyyy
rohandhruva said:
And moreover, android people are introducing a new licensing mechanism where the app can lookup whether it's actually bought and paid for, or not -
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh thx for the info
rori~ said:
1. post here, not bad
You think Android devs are rich people, havin houses in Hollywood Hills, right ?!
Support devs and you get good apps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lool ,, i am supporting the developers . that's y i'm askin. i c a lot of comments in the app when i want to download it who refer to paid apps.
AbsoluteDesignz said:
to answer your question, no it will not break your phone...as a former notorious "cracked" app downloader (since paid for the ones I support and uninstalled the ones I do not use due to my commitment to the community as a user) I can't wait for this licensing to be widespread...I see too many people handing out links to piracy sites and also linking the damn things in app comments...but yea.
it won't break ur phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what i'm exactly asking about
thx for ur reply man. For the misunderstanding, I love android, in fact i wish it would be the best mobile software in the future "if it's not now " but android should at least do something to those people who handing out links because it's really tempting
Common Sense
Android is probably one of the platform where application are priced the cheapest I have seen, so no, downloading an pirated application will not break your phone but it will not make the android platform any better either.
If developer can't make money why would they keep trying, as an example, A symbian chess prg cost 14$, on android it's 3.99 if I remember correctly so yes I pay for my apps.
The platform is still new, it has great potential, site like the one that are advertised can hurt development badly, there's a difference into giving your sister one copy of an application you have and making it available to everybody.
both are piracy but at a much different scale!
I will be really happy when I heard that the maker of an application I use everyday has made 1 millions knowing I contributed 1$ to it...
About Google piracy solution, I would be better off without it I am against all form of DRM, we will see...
P.S.
If you press and hold on a comment you can mark it as spam in the market...
[Sarcasm] Its perfectly fine. Google promotes it and so do the developers. If you read the forum rules, you'd have never asked such an obvious question. [/Sarcasm]
P00r said:
Android is probably one of the platform where application are priced the cheapest I have seen, so no, downloading an pirated application will not break your phone but it will not make the android platform any better either.
If developer can't make money why would they keep trying, as an example, A symbian chess prg cost 14$, on android it's 3.99 if I remember correctly so yes I pay for my apps.
The platform is still new, it has great potential, site like the one that are advertised can hurt development badly, there's a difference into giving your sister one copy of an application you have and making it available to everybody.
both are piracy but at a much different scale!
I will be really happy when I heard that the maker of an application I use everyday has made 1 millions knowing I contributed 1$ to it...
About Google piracy solution, I would be better off without it I am against all form of DRM, we will see...
P.S.
If you press and hold on a comment you can mark it as spam in the market...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess u're right and thx for the info
faraz1992 said:
[Sarcasm] Its perfectly fine. Google promotes it and so do the developers. If you read the forum rules, you'd have never asked such an obvious question. [/Sarcasm]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maaan, believe me it's not what i meant . and believe me if i knew the answer, i wouldn't ask. i guess it is my mistake for not reading the rules sorry
Meshal-USA said:
ummmmmmmmmmm,
I found some cracked or hacked or prepaid "what ever u wanna call it " apps in the internet. So my question is: Is it okay to download it? or i might have some problems with android or google?
Thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't do it! Let's support our Android developers because by doing so the Android platform will get better and that benefits us as users. All paid apps can be refunded in 24 hours, which is awesome in my opinion because if I buy an app and it doesn't work for me I can always get a refund so I never feel like I wasted my money. So do that, buy an app, try it and if it works for you keep it. Don't pirate it. Plus you get get regular updates to your app and the latest version always by purchasing it rather than pirating.
my 2 cents
By downloading cracked apps, you'll never know what was done to the app.
It's so easy for a cracker to gain access to your phone root permissions (if you are rooted like many of us are) via a cracked app. How will you ever know?!
Unless you yourself are a developer, then you'd know what to look for.
Most users have no idea WHAT to look for, and will download a fun looking app just because their buddy recommended it. For all you know, it's sending your contact list, SMSs, and other private information to some shanty-shack in China.
That's why Google made it an option in the Android™ Operating System to allow or disallow Market Apps. I think it's great that we are allowed to do that *cough*AT&T*cough*restrictions*.
"You wouldn't download a car!"
Don't get cracked apps. They make your balls shrink or your boobs sag!
Also never ask about cracked apps on a forum with lots of developers, you won't make many friends...
While I completely agree that piracy is bad for developers and the community in the long run, it is sometimes very frustrating for users like me. I live in India and have no access to the paid apps in the market.
I would love to pay for apps like psx4droid and a good chess program, but I have no option to do that. And these apps are not available directly from the developers sites as well.
I really hope that Google opens up the market to a wider audience. It is a win-win for everybody.
vsankarn said:
While I completely agree that piracy is bad for developers and the community in the long run, it is sometimes very frustrating for users like me. I live in India and have no access to the paid apps in the market.
I would love to pay for apps like psx4droid and a good chess program, but I have no option to do that. And these apps are not available directly from the developers sites as well.
I really hope that Google opens up the market to a wider audience. It is a win-win for everybody.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't there other alternate market available like slide me etc ?
If they are not available either then I guess you are a bit more justified but you will still burn in hell
or something similar...
Can we lock this thread? The answer is morally no. Technically it will probably run but you risk a trojan and will not get updates automatically.
For people in countries without paid apps, search for Market Enabler, this has been covered multiple times in the past.
netninja said:
Don't do it! Let's support our Android developers because by doing so the Android platform will get better and that benefits us as users. All paid apps can be refunded in 24 hours, which is awesome in my opinion because if I buy an app and it doesn't work for me I can always get a refund so I never feel like I wasted my money. So do that, buy an app, try it and if it works for you keep it. Don't pirate it. Plus you get get regular updates to your app and the latest version always by purchasing it rather than pirating.
my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't
OrganizedFellow said:
By downloading cracked apps, you'll never know what was done to the app.
It's so easy for a cracker to gain access to your phone root permissions (if you are rooted like many of us are) via a cracked app. How will you ever know?!
Unless you yourself are a developer, then you'd know what to look for.
Most users have no idea WHAT to look for, and will download a fun looking app just because their buddy recommended it. For all you know, it's sending your contact list, SMSs, and other private information to some shanty-shack in China.
That's why Google made it an option in the Android™ Operating System to allow or disallow Market Apps. I think it's great that we are allowed to do that *cough*AT&T*cough*restrictions*.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
k, now i have another question. I have an unlocked nexus one, i heard i might lose my warrenty if i rooted it, is that correct or not? cause i didn't root my phone yet because of that
vsankarn said:
While I completely agree that piracy is bad for developers and the community in the long run, it is sometimes very frustrating for users like me. I live in India and have no access to the paid apps in the market.
I would love to pay for apps like psx4droid and a good chess program, but I have no option to do that. And these apps are not available directly from the developers sites as well.
I really hope that Google opens up the market to a wider audience. It is a win-win for everybody.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear that bro, and i hope android will figure smth out in the future.
JanetPanic said:
Can we lock this thread? The answer is morally no. Technically it will probably run but you risk a trojan and will not get updates automatically.
For people in countries without paid apps, search for Market Enabler, this has been covered multiple times in the past.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JCopernicus said:
"You wouldn't download a car!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
of'caurse
blablum said:
Don't get cracked apps. They make your balls shrink or your boobs sag!
Also never ask about cracked apps on a forum with lots of developers, you won't make many friends...
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Click to collapse
loool, oh sorry man i hope that wouldn't happen, because i wanna be also part of this community. sorry for my innocent question
P00r said:
Isn't there other alternate market available like slide me etc ?
If they are not available either then I guess you are a bit more justified but you will still burn in hell
or something similar...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never downloaded paid apps, that's why i asked
JanetPanic said:
Can we lock this thread? The answer is morally no. Technically it will probably run but you risk a trojan and will not get updates automatically.
For people in countries without paid apps, search for Market Enabler, this has been covered multiple times in the past.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why r u so upset , thx for the info though
thats wut i dont like about "cracked" apps. you wont get the updates. its much more easier to pay the $3 for the app n just get notifications for updates rather than search around the web for the updated apk. in my opinion, paying the $3 is much easier knowing u will get the updates n will feel morally right
JCopernicus said:
"You wouldn't download a car!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would if i could!
*LOL*
You can close every single 1.5 and 2.1 SENSE release here on xda, when you ban Feeyo for that point 6 and point 9.
Or has ANY dev the permission of htc using THEIR sense or office-suite?
Come on, close xda-android except the real aosps:
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
I can't believe someone would post a thread like this after what has happened... Facepalm...
dont know said:
*LOL*
You can close every single 1.5 and 2.1 SENSE release here on xda, when you ban Feeyo for that point 6 and point 9.
Or has ANY dev the permission of htc using THEIR sense or office-suite?
Come on, close xda-android except the real aosps:
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice try except Sense isn't warez. Anyone using a phone made by HTC has a license to use Sense. The -only- dubious ROMs are ROMs for phones that contain sense when the phones never had sense released on them by HTC, such as the Nexus One. In which case you raise a good point and instead of attempting to incite -another- flame war in regards to Feeyo, you should report those rom posts to the moderators.
I'm personally surprised and pleased XDA have started to take a harder stance on adherence to licenses. You have to look at it from their perspective too, XDA is a popular site and they don't need various license owners breathing down their necks from a legal standpoint, with XDA being a large distribution node for software.
Feeyo could have easily avoided all this. I actually thought the staff had closed the issue with a slapped wrist. All he had to do, was uphold agreements he made in regards to licensing when he chose to use software under the GPL. He didn't and thus only has himself to blame. I understand you being somewhat blinded by your fanboy spectacles, but try and see it in a bigger picture. If ever developer took Feeyo's attitude to redistributing GPL source code back into the community, we'd all still be sat on some crappy HTC ROM with an ancient and buggy kernel. Cyanogenmod project certainly wouldn't exist and projects like Feeyo's would never have gotten off the ground in the first place.
He was happy to take the benefits of the GPL. He should have been happy to give back as a result of taking those benefits. He wasn't, he didn't now he's banned.
He has been a walking GPL violation since day one. Not -once- has he offered or posted sources to GPL code that he uses. Not -once- has he even bothered to mention the GPL license to any of his users, which he is also required to do, so that they're aware that they're protected by the GPL. Look at the page/wiki for his Linux distribution. Not a single mention of the GPL and not a single link to the source code despite practically every package being protected under the GPL.
If you cannot understand why it is imperative for the GPL to be adhered to in order for it to work and for EVERYONE to benefit from it, if your vision stops at "me have awesome ROM on phone" and goes no further, well then you shouldn't really be posting on the subject in the first place.
Feeyo was so abusive of the community aspect to Android development, he even used a shadow account to ask questions of other developers, before releasing his "wonderful and all his own work" as Feeyo and not once did he credit anyone who helped him out.
Regardless of his development talent, he was still a bad seed and ultimately bad for the community.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=716916
Hi, don't know thank you for posting in the wrong section.
If we get complaints from HTC about those, you better believe that we will. I guess you must have missed the meaning of General Public License there, you must have spotted the word public in there, which means we have to take complaints serious. We did, this will ultimately create a healthier development environment, but I guess you'd rather have a new build then one thats fair. Feeyo is welcome to post his ROMs once more 30 days from now, if he would share the sources as required by GPL.
XDA operates a non-invasive policy with regard to such matters. To quote from HTC
"While HTC tries to take a hands off [approach] about the modder / ROM chef community, this site's sole purpose [is] to make HTC's content available for download from a source other than HTC. That content is not just the open source parts and kernels of Android but all of the software that HTC itself has developed. This is a clear violation of our copyrights and HTC needs to defend itself in these cases."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was in response to ShippedROMs being asked to stop hosting RUUs of unreleased ROMs.
It is XDA policy to act swiftly in response to any take-down or C&D request directed to the site from a company such as HTC. As HTC make good money out of selling their phones, they are not bothered about a few people making ROMs for each other to use, as it drives up sales of phones.
Moved out of development as irrelevant. No more random threads like this please guys, this is a warning as I'm not going to spend the day moving posts about.
Damn! Don't even know what to believe now... I wish I had been following this from the start...
Maybe someone can send a PM to me with a short resume even I can understand? xD
C0mpu13rFr34k said:
Damn! Don't even know what to believe now... I wish I had been following this from the start...
Maybe someone can send a PM to me with a short resume even I can understand? xD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think any PM is needed here. Read the info posted by stericson, as that is a full explanation of what's happened.
pulser_g2 said:
I don't think any PM is needed here. Read the info posted by stericson, as that is a full explanation of what's happened.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's just that that post is very hard for me to understand I get really confused reading it...
Guys, why even bother?
A decision made is a decision made.. and only the involved people should take steps to work it out.
Peace,
Bryanarby
C0mpu13rFr34k said:
It's just that that post is very hard for me to understand I get really confused reading it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then don't worry about it. Feeyo did a bad thing and continued to do a bad thing. Bad thing thoroughly investigated and now rectified, Feeyo given vacation for his trouble.
Hacre said:
Then don't worry about it. Feeyo did a bad thing and continued to do a bad thing. Bad thing thoroughly investigated and now rectified, Feeyo given vacation for his trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not saying I'm agreeing with you but I guess I'm going to start using both your ROMs Your both great developers
pulser_g2 said:
It is XDA policy to act swiftly in response to any take-down or C&D request directed to the site from a company such as HTC. As HTC make good money out of selling their phones, they are not bothered about a few people making ROMs for each other to use, as it drives up sales of phones.
Moved out of development as irrelevant. No more random threads like this please guys, this is a warning as I'm not going to spend the day moving posts about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for choosing dev and not general
hmm - Froyd119 does have an office-view integrated...
passionqickoffice.apk was never delivered with htc hero.
OK, EVERYONE at xda does cook ROMS out of others...
But it's ridiculous to ban feeyo out from these two points.
GPL - OK (discussion when someone has to publish the code - immediatly, or after 2 weeks) , but not quote THIS points when banning a dev, cause ALL devs has to be banned - which is death to xda
dont know said:
Sorry for choosing dev and not general
hmm - Froyd119 does have an office-view integrated...
passionqickoffice.apk was never delivered with htc hero.
OK, EVERYONE at xda does cook ROMS out of others...
But it's ridiculous to ban feeyo out from these two points.
GPL - OK (discussion when someone has to publish the code - immediatly, or after 2 weeks) , but not quote THIS points when banning a dev, cause ALL devs has to be banned - which is death to xda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what Hero you're using but I had Quick Office on my phone when it came from Orange.
EDIT: In fact, from the official HTC 1.5 RUU:
Code:
[email protected] ~/downloads/apps/phone/roms/official/RUU/app $ ls | grep -i quickoffice
Quickoffice_HTC_1.0.1.apk
This would be Quickoffice, themed to match HTC Sense. In Android 1.5. This file was never deleted in the subsequent OTAs:
Code:
[email protected] ~/downloads/apps/phone/roms/official $ find . -iname *office*
./evo/system/app/Quickoffice.apk
./RUU/system/app/Quickoffice_HTC_1.0.1.apk
./RUU/app/Quickoffice_HTC_1.0.1.apk
./postpatch/system/app/Quickoffice.apk
QuickOffice is a licensed Google application. HTC have a google app license. Therefore people using HTC phones have a Google app license to use Google apps on their phones. QED.
Google's Cease and Desist against Cyanogenmod fell down on these very grounds.
You're becoming more ridiculous by the post.
It IS interesting how we only get to see the "bad" side of Feeyo.
It's just.. I know Feeyo's side aswell, so it looks really weird to have (all) people saying he didn't release it.
I'm not familiar with the GPL so correct me if I am wrong.
I would say that the coder has the freedom to atleast clean his code pre-releasing?
Don't get me wrong.. the code should be released and was in a way.
Declining that the code was released..
The essential parts are there?
btw, Warez?
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it,-> nope
either pay or find your cracks-> nope
and serials somewhere else.-> nope
We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, -> nope
cracks, -> nope
serial codes -> nope
or other means of avoiding payment, -> nope
can be obtained.
So, unless this rule is bigger then that.. I do not agree with the Warez branding.
Bryanarby said:
It IS interesting how we only get to see the "bad" side of Feeyo.
It's just.. I know Feeyo's side aswell, so it looks really weird to have (all) people saying he didn't release it.
I'm not familiar with the GPL so correct me if I am wrong.
I would say that the coder has the freedom to atleast clean his code pre-releasing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incorrect. If you provide me with software licensed by the GPL I am entitled to the EXACT SOURCE CODE USED to compile that piece of software. It's why the GPL has made so many in roads in the security community because the code can be vetted upon request. Once the code is "cleaned up" then it isn't the same code as used to provide the binary release and therefore, a breach in GPL.
Bryanarby said:
Don't get me wrong.. the code should be released and was in a way.
Declining that the code was released..
The essential parts are there?
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Click to collapse
No it wasn't and no they aren't. Every "source code" release Feeyo ever provided either didn't work or wasn't the source code that was asked for. You don't do partial releases of source code, or "here's most of it, work the rest out for yourself". That only works if you provide a complete diff patch of the original source to the source used which in essence will provide the original source code used. Feeyo didn't do this either.
Bryanarby said:
btw, Warez?
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it,-> nope
either pay or find your cracks-> nope
and serials somewhere else.-> nope
We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, -> nope
cracks, -> nope
serial codes -> nope
or other means of avoiding payment, -> nope
can be obtained.
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Yes warez. In the broader sense, Warez is the distribution/use of software for which you do not have a valid license. In most cases, yes, this is because it's paid software being distributed for free, however it boils down to the same legal issue, no valid license.
So warez applies to Feeyo's kernels. He does not have a valid license to distribute them because he does not have a valid GPL license, because he refuses to provide:
A copy of the GPL with his releases or an easily accessible copy of the GPL at distribution point. There's a reason I keep a link to my kernel source in my signature, you're only a click away from your copy of the GPL as well as a click away from your copy of the source code, including easy to read, detailed, changelogs.
AND
A written offer to provide the source code upon request
OR an archive of the source code used to build the binary release at the point of distribution
OR an archive of the source provided upon request.
Failure to match this criteria breaches GPL and once you have breached GPL you no longer have a license to distribute the GPL software in question.
No license + distribution = illegal distribution = Warez.
Bryanarby said:
So, unless this rule is bigger then that.. I do not agree with the Warez branding.
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Well then I hope I've cleared that up for you.
Furthermore, looking at the Cronos Linux distribution, which Feeyo advertises in his forum signature, that's an even bigger GPL breach than his ROMs are. It's a walking, talking, urination all over the GPL. Not a single mention of the GPL on the site or in the wiki, not a single link to the source code anywhere that I can find.
Ok, I agree, Feeyo should abide by the GPL..
Although the aggressive level of demanding was rediculously high, leading to the defensive stance against releasing.
It is/was still not finished and the issues that it brought could not be fixed, as such the rollback.
Bryanarby said:
Ok, I agree, Feeyo should abide by the GPL..
Although the aggressive level of demanding was rediculously high, leading to the defensive stance against releasing.
It is/was still not finished and the issues that it brought could not be fixed, as such the rollback.
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My initial request was very polite. The aggressiveness came when he refused.
It was finished enough to include in a ROM release. You don't seem to understand how the GPL and open source development works. Once he released that "2.6.32" kernel to the wild, he was obligated to provide the source code he used to build it. Not when he felt like it, not after he'd changed it again, but as it was when that kernel was built.
Myself and others are working on a 2.6.34 port for the Hero. The source code we are working on doesn't work properly as yet, however the source code is STILL PUBLICLY AVAILABLE so that other developers can contribute to it and improve upon it and who knows, even help us get it finished faster.
I wasn't going to do this, however given that Feeyo has outright lied again here to his OWN COMMUNITY, I'm going to.
Feeyo didn't port 2.6.32 to the Hero. Feeyo changed the version string in the Makefile. Do I have proof of this? Not a jot but I'd bet my house on it. There's some incredibly talented devs working on the 2.6.3x port for the Hero and there's more than one of them. Feeyo got it working in under a week or so he claims. He refused to release the source and pulled the distribution because he was rumbled and he knows it.
Either you're in on it with him, or he's got you completely fooled as well. Or you and he are the same person. After all the deceit from the Cronos group, stemming from way back when he claimed to have goldfish sources for the hero and ended up posting a git snapshot that had nothing at all to do with the Hero up until recently, who the hell knows what's going on.
But I draw the line at GPL breach and lying to a community which Feeyo has done on numerous occasions. Thankfully, XDA seem to agree with me, which at the end of the day, is the opinion that counts.
His actions were contemptuous and the attempted defense/excusing of his actions by the likes of you and your ilk are equally contemptuous.
Hacre said:
QuickOffice is a licensed Google application. HTC have a google app license. Therefore people using HTC phones have a Google app license to use Google apps on their phones. QED.
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It's an interpretation of a "law" - OK (we all use the passion.apk)
but accuse feeyo of warez because not IMMIDIATLY public the code is also an interpration of a "law"
http://www.cronosproject.org/kernelSources.tar.bz2
Hacre said:
You're becoming more ridiculous by the post.
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perhaps
But for me the whole war is so ridiculous that my posts are peanuts
Hacre said:
I wasn't going to do this, however given that Feeyo has outright lied again here to his OWN COMMUNITY, I'm going to.
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Well, as you started there aswell.. let's keep it at one place or it would get too chaotic to follow for anyone. As Feeyo can atleast speak on the other forum, I will halt following this topic.
Hacre said:
Either you're in on it with him, or he's got you completely fooled as well. Or you and he are the same person.
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I only hear bits and pieces of both sides, that's why I changed standing point after gathering more info.
I, myself(not Feeyo), have no access to any sources.
Really, really, really not imposing on anyone:
Is this how issues should be solved? Handing one side free speech and silencing the other side?
God, how I hated that about my ex (good thing she doesn't know my internet identity/doesn't look for it.)
I get the impression that a lot of people are really looking at the GPL the wrong way, not really able to shake off a capitalist mindset from it. The fact of the matter is, if someone develops something and releases it under GPL it means it's free to distribute and edit all you like ON THE CONDITION THAT THE GPL REMAINS. You *CANNOT* take some code, edit it and then claim "welllllll, it's really my code so I'll release it when I'm good and ready". No, that's not the GPL - go and write something from scratch if you want to do that.
The ethos behind the GPL is to promote development, holding sources back until you're happy with them is fine, but then you can't release the ROM. That's far too much like wanting some limelight for yourself before you allow others to carry on. Again - Feeyo did not own the code that he was withholding, he did not author it from scratch and as such he was OBLIGED to make the source available the nanosecond he made a compiled ROM available. I think it's absolutely fair and just that he gets banned for this breach as it's such a fundamental "f**k you" to the GPL, hopefully he'll see what he was doing wrong and remedy it. After all, the more developers working on an open source project the better.
Bryanarby said:
I only hear bits and pieces of both sides, that's why I changed standing point after gathering more info.
I, myself(not Feeyo), have no access to any sources.
Really, really, really not imposing on anyone:
Is this how issues should be solved? Handing one side free speech and silencing the other side?
God, how I hated that about my ex (good thing she doesn't know my internet identity/doesn't look for it.)
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As far as I'm concerned, there are no *sides* on this. I'm not a huge follower of XDA, so I'm not involved in all the politics but I have a reasonable understanding of the GPL after living with a total Linux nerd/open source zealot at Uni. The facts are that Feeyo did not make the proper sources available as soon as he released a compiled ROM - that's not how the GPL works. It seems he persistently resisted and as such, was banned. Totally fair enough.
Hi hi
I was just wondering.. Is it legal to cook fonts like Segoe UI or Droid sans in your public ROMs? Also, is it legal to perhaps cook in an apple startup sound or something similiar? Lastly, how legal is it to cook ROMs? Is it a gray area in any way?
Thanks
Cooking its not Legal at all, WindowsMobile and HTC are trademarks.
af974 said:
Cooking its not Legal at all, WindowsMobile and HTC are trademarks.
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If that's the case, wouldn't this site have been closed down quite a while ago?
Did you read some times agò about Conflipper against HTC?
Or Da_G that was PMed by a WM investigator and was asked to delet his WM builds shared?
I guess XDA Developers site it is not responsable to whatever their users shares in the site......ill try to find the TOS and see what is write about.
seeM_ZA said:
If that's the case, wouldn't this site have been closed down quite a while ago?
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af974 said:
Did you read some times agò about Conflipper against HTC?
Or Da_G that was PMed by a WM investigator and was asked to delet his WM builds shared?
I guess XDA Developers site it is not responsable to whatever their users shares in the site......ill try to find the TOS and see what is write about.
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Click to collapse
Yeah I heard about that, not the Da_G part though.. That's why I'm pretty confused.
Then why does warez get removed instantly?
Also, this site is pretty large (and old), so why have MS only contacted those two people?
Yeah..you are right
This is the TOS point 9.....im confused too now,lol
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
seeM_ZA said:
Yeah I heard about that, not the Da_G part though.. That's why I'm pretty confused.
Then why does warez get removed instantly?
Also, this site is pretty large (and old), so why have MS only contacted those two people?
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Thats only the very recent history.
I remember when roms/builds were hosted on the xda ftp.
MS eventualy asked to have them removed from xda servers.
Unless the site gets too close to something new, or there are 3rd party issues forcing them to act, I would imagine MS benefits more from the site as it is.
They get a very active community of beta testers and a loyal community of phone purchasers - a lot of whom are like this because they always want the latest stuff. Hence they will (often) also want the latest phones. Hence it counteracts the problem of them delaying purchases by putting new os's on old phones.
Driving it underground would not stop the activity and only really annoy the users.
It will be interesting to see if they change their policy as WP7 comes in and WM6.5 fades out....
If you are new here, perhaps you may not be aware that the MS forced XDA_Developers to remove all the cooked ROMs from its FTP store. Before that all the cooked ROMs were hosted on the XDA-Developer's FTP store.
Yeah but apart from technically enforcing their rights how did that slow down XDA after a week or two? If they really wanted to hurt XDA they could do much more.
I remember an interview with HTC"s chairman where he was saying that XDA was a necessary "evil". Or something like "we need them and they need us" type of thing
Is it just me, or is it weird that XDA disallows the posting of xap files for paid apps, but has a forum for HD2's running WP7?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
it's just you.
Hagenlund said:
it's just you.
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ok fair enough...
Let me be more direct then.
How does the same policy that condemns the posting of .xap files for paid apps justify the piracy of Microsoft's WP7 OS?
munkeyphyst said:
ok fair enough...
Let me be more direct then.
How does the same policy that condemns the posting of .xap files for paid apps justify the piracy of Microsoft's WP7 OS?
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Because its completley and utterly different.
If your moaning because you cant post/download warez here, go away, there are other forums for that, XDA is not the place.
I'm not advocating piracy at all. I just don't understand the double standard, or how it's "completley(sic) and utterly different"
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I think this thread is useless. I mean, why will you complain about something that is almost a miracle, that DFT made for us? Didn't you like that we can now run almost all smartphones OS on our HD2?
Man, I think you should review about your questions...
On the contrary, we need gripe and complaint threads so we can piss and moan without cluttering up the real threads. Not like I would post a complaint... people here are ruthless.
And I agree. It's laughable that I can come to these forums and hack the crap out of my phone with pirated OS software but I can't find apps to go with it.
Saw a ROM thread shut down for stuff like this. Ridiculous considering the ROM itself is PIRATED AND STOLEN... btw ty DFT
I equate it to the term military intelligence... just don't make no sense.
Its in microsoft's best interest to let as many people experience WP7 as they can, because then eventually they would want their next device be an ACTUAL WP7 device.
In terms of policy, why fix something that aint broke? If MS had a problem, they would have had this forum removed a long time ago. But even after months, it still exists.
And since you are already posting from a WP7 device, I would say the question is, why would u post this here? no hostility intended, just wondering....
One answer to the question - and I'm not saying it's the correct one - is that paid for XAPs are, by definition, available for sale through commercial channels. Posting them on here for free is clearly theft.
A mobile phone OS is supplied with hardware in order to make the hardware operate. It is not available to buy as a standalone product - Windows 7 for PC is a purchasable product; WP7 for mobile is not a purchasable product.
Just because there is no specific price to a product doesn't necessarily mean it's free, but it's that bit more difficult to cry 'thief'.
Arguably MS has more to gain from the extended testing offered by this community and it seems to me that MS tend to talk more about 'not supported' than 'not allowed' when it comes to people using WP7 on HD2 devices.
Therefore ROMs are tolerated, warez are not.
It may be harder to prove legally, WP7 may be a product that isn't for sale publicly, and Microsoft might look the other way, but that doesn't mean it still isn't stealing. Wrong is wrong regardless how one spins it.
I am thankful to all those in this community for their efforts and achievements, and I am glad that Microsoft is allowing this to continue, but let's face it... if you want to hack up and redistribute someone else's intellectual property they spent years and millions developing, you should go to work for Microsoft or pay them for the rights to use it.
Fact is, to sanction one form of stealing and ban another is a double standard.
Keep up the good work all. More free apps.. down with greedy bastards!!
I would guess that if the site was seen to breaking the law, MS would come after it and the ROM's would be taken down. The mere fact that the site has been hosting MS roms for ages now (not just WM7) also suggests MS can either do little about it or don't want to. It has to be the latter but the OP still raises an interesting question.
bisoner said:
I would guess that if the site was seen to breaking the law, MS would come after it and the ROM's would be taken down. The mere fact that the site has been hosting MS roms for ages now (not just WM7) also suggests MS can either do little about it or don't want to. It has to be the latter but the OP still raises an interesting question.
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When cooking a WM ROM to put replace/use on a device already running WM you are basically modifying something that you already own, the WM OS.
Android is open source, and even though you still taking the someone else's extensive work with the open source and hacking it and using it, it typically is used in the same fashion, to replace an existing Andriod OS.
The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair, is public domain, and anyone can publish the text without royalties. It is, essentially, "opensource". However, it is illegal to photocopy and distribute my published edition of the book, with my artwork, my forewords and my apendixes filled with historical facts and data.
WP7 on an HD2 is different from all of these examples. It is ripping an OS from a device and distributing it illegally to others. If this was done with Windows 7 on a PC, no one would defend this. It would clearly be piracy.
Honestly, when I first heard of the WP7 port onto HD2, I thought it was cool and considered going that route myself, mostly because I loved the hardware. I'm not casting judgement on anyone.
I have read through many threads where mods came in and banned something that might be piracy.
There was a thread discussing the actual numbers of WP7 apps where a huge piracy debate ensued just because a screen shot showing the number of available apps might have also shown software that could be used to pirate software.
This comes up again in threads where device specific software is .xap'ed and made available to other devices.
It's a fuzzy line as to what XDA deems ok and what it will squash, eventhough I think the line of what is legal and what is not is far less fuzzy.
I brought the topic here, because this forum exists in it's entirety within that fuzzy gray area. I thought that maybe I was missing something, maybe MS ok'ed this, or maybe there was some mobile device OS exclusion that I was unaware of.
XDA is the way it is, I guess.
"sharing" paid apps is "piracy" and banned
"sharing" device specific apps is "research" and usually ok, even if they are paid apps elsewhere in the universe and are obviously used to entice buyers to specific handsets
"sharing" an OS is... ? "idk, stop asking," even if it isn't open source and can only be purchased with a device.
My 2 cents
From my perspective I would gladly pay Microsoft for WP7 for the HD2 if they would offer it. Just like I gladly pay for apps that are offered as such as well. The reason I think it is not a double standard to rip WP7 and not paid apps is evident in how Microsoft is handling the issue. They know that from a customer service standpoint is it ridiculous not to offer WP7 for the HD2. But like they said, the button layout doesn't quite work and I'm not sure they want to take the time and money creating support for the OS on the HD2.
Enter XDA: Microsoft thinks: Here's a group of folks that will do all that for us. So we lose a few bucks by not forcing people to buy the HD7 right now. Heck, people have always been pissed at us for doing that kind of thing anyway. Why don't we let these guys do their thing, keep the HD2 owners happy, and win some new customers with our sweet new OS. This way they never call us and we save time and money by not supporting the OS but we also look nice as we don't call them on it and ask them to stop.
And in my opinion, it's working. We baulked at Windows mobile compared to iOS or Android but MS has a good thing going with WP7. I'm interested.
And I trust that Microsoft need only ask and XDA would stop producing WP7 for HD2.
actually i really agree on what the OP brought up i mean its an amazing achievement and something that is mind blowing to have WP7, Android whatever your taste is on to our device but yeah i do think there is some sort of grey area in the piracy policy but without piracy where would we be? its a hate love thing i guess the bad thing about downloading Paid XAPs is that they werent meant to be downloaded illegaly and i bet all of us have done the crime, who here hasnt downloaded Windows 7 OS for your PC and run it illegaly? or XP or even MAC? we all do it yet its in a weird way acceptable but programs on the other hand seem to be viewed in a different way..i guess because an actual individual and not a REAL wall street company created these apps it hurts them more since i guess they expect to earn income and to some extent is what they do for a living..who knows..i guess thats my point of view on this...this isnt a useless thread is quite a smart question/topic on whats legal and whats illegal to do on here
while the OP theoretically makes a good point here's how it works practically:
*MS obviously doesn't give a **** because they've sent no C&D and they even give us keys when we say we're using an HD2
*This does not take any money away from MS because they won't sell us a WP7 license anyways
*No one actually is making ANY money from doing this EXCEPT wp7 developers.
*It is a gray area, and since there has been no C&D of any sort then it is totally different than cracking a paid app and distributing it, because the developers do care and do lose money and it is black and white
*W'eve seen these threads a thousand times and we're pretty sick of all the same arguments, that's why you're getting some vitriol, like that guy at the party who gets drunk and tells you the same "remember when I scored that touchdown?" story he's told you 5 gazillion times.
I agree. Posting Paid Apps that developers made is wrong. this is their way of living to gain an income. Besides if you wanted paid Xaps for free google search the name of the xap and put a sharing behind im sure you will come up with results.
CZARSUPERSTAR.
HD2
2 CLIQS
MYTOUCH 3.5
TMOBILE COMET
COBY KYROS TABLET
Agree 100% with orangekid.
Just want to add that MS itself has only to gain with this:
- They get money for each app bought and some services you use from them
- And guess what, they don't have to bother getting resources for supporting the HD2, as officially it is unsupported.
So, actually, everybody gains with WP7 in the HD2. Did you really think that MS was getting rich with the 10€ or so each WP7 license costs the manufacter?
It's all fun and games until someone is hurt. Nobody is being hurt or damaged. Although one might say that phone manufacters could be losing sales as people may buy an HD2 and run WP7 on it... But perhaps it is not significant enough...
On first blush, the "microsoft aint doing nothing about it so obviously it's ok" argument seems lame, but it may be somewhat valid. Maybe MS should get some props for allowing something like this to pass. I don't believe it's a matter of "not worth their time" or "nothing they can do about it". They shut down VistaTorrent, http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2006/06/30/microsoft-delivers-cease-and-desist-order-in-a-frame/, when they were distributing a free, open to the public, beta version. They put a stop to the Chevron team. As someone said, they could probably just ask XDA and this forum would go away. Maybe they will some day, who knows.
Is it true that you can call MS and tell them you're trying to install WP7 on an HD2 and they will just give you a reg number?
munkeyphyst said:
On first blush, the "microsoft aint doing nothing about it so obviously it's ok" argument seems lame, but it may be somewhat valid. Maybe MS should get some props for allowing something like this to pass. I don't believe it's a matter of "not worth their time" or "nothing they can do about it". They shut down VistaTorrent, http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2006/06/30/microsoft-delivers-cease-and-desist-order-in-a-frame/, when they were distributing a free, open to the public, beta version. They put a stop to the Chevron team. As someone said, they could probably just ask XDA and this forum would go away. Maybe they will some day, who knows.
Is it true that you can call MS and tell them you're trying to install WP7 on an HD2 and they will just give you a reg number?
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From many reports in the threads talking about reg keys users have said they told reps they were using an HD2 and were still given the key
munkeyphyst said:
ok fair enough...
Let me be more direct then.
How does the same policy that condemns the posting of .xap files for paid apps justify the piracy of Microsoft's WP7 OS?
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Click to collapse
1. When you buy a mobile phone, you cant choose a special OS for it (like Windows, Linux, Mac OS for a PC, the reason is that the software manufacturers don't do that because it is too complex, not everyone knows how to flash correctly a device) so you get an OS with it
2. The device manufacturers like HTC pays in advance the licence fees for the OS when selling the phone. So when you buy it, you pay automaticly the licence fee which is not so much then a licence for a regular pc. Android for exemple is free to use, for Windows phone/mobile the manufacturer pays normally 20$ for each device sold.
3. The device is already pre-installed
4. I called once microsoft and told them that I have a HD2 with WP7 and the agent told me that it is not supportet by them, but not illegal.