[Q] Some questions about legal stuffs.. - Windows Mobile

Hi hi
I was just wondering.. Is it legal to cook fonts like Segoe UI or Droid sans in your public ROMs? Also, is it legal to perhaps cook in an apple startup sound or something similiar? Lastly, how legal is it to cook ROMs? Is it a gray area in any way?
Thanks

Cooking its not Legal at all, WindowsMobile and HTC are trademarks.

af974 said:
Cooking its not Legal at all, WindowsMobile and HTC are trademarks.
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If that's the case, wouldn't this site have been closed down quite a while ago?

Did you read some times agò about Conflipper against HTC?
Or Da_G that was PMed by a WM investigator and was asked to delet his WM builds shared?
I guess XDA Developers site it is not responsable to whatever their users shares in the site......ill try to find the TOS and see what is write about.
seeM_ZA said:
If that's the case, wouldn't this site have been closed down quite a while ago?
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af974 said:
Did you read some times agò about Conflipper against HTC?
Or Da_G that was PMed by a WM investigator and was asked to delet his WM builds shared?
I guess XDA Developers site it is not responsable to whatever their users shares in the site......ill try to find the TOS and see what is write about.
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Yeah I heard about that, not the Da_G part though.. That's why I'm pretty confused.
Then why does warez get removed instantly?
Also, this site is pretty large (and old), so why have MS only contacted those two people?

Yeah..you are right
This is the TOS point 9.....im confused too now,lol
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.

seeM_ZA said:
Yeah I heard about that, not the Da_G part though.. That's why I'm pretty confused.
Then why does warez get removed instantly?
Also, this site is pretty large (and old), so why have MS only contacted those two people?
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Thats only the very recent history.
I remember when roms/builds were hosted on the xda ftp.
MS eventualy asked to have them removed from xda servers.

Unless the site gets too close to something new, or there are 3rd party issues forcing them to act, I would imagine MS benefits more from the site as it is.
They get a very active community of beta testers and a loyal community of phone purchasers - a lot of whom are like this because they always want the latest stuff. Hence they will (often) also want the latest phones. Hence it counteracts the problem of them delaying purchases by putting new os's on old phones.
Driving it underground would not stop the activity and only really annoy the users.
It will be interesting to see if they change their policy as WP7 comes in and WM6.5 fades out....

If you are new here, perhaps you may not be aware that the MS forced XDA_Developers to remove all the cooked ROMs from its FTP store. Before that all the cooked ROMs were hosted on the XDA-Developer's FTP store.

Yeah but apart from technically enforcing their rights how did that slow down XDA after a week or two? If they really wanted to hurt XDA they could do much more.

I remember an interview with HTC"s chairman where he was saying that XDA was a necessary "evil". Or something like "we need them and they need us" type of thing

Related

I think someone is stealing your programs!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
I came across this looking for an 8525, it seems that he may be using the FREE programs available on here. I would say whoever created them go after this guy because it's obviously not fair he is using what you created to profit without you getting anything for it. I'm not 100% sure if he is use the programs from here, but I mean how many Sim/CID unlock program are really out there for the 8525?
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
Lurch3559 said:
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
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maybe a copy of SPL-****er will be worming its way to him... nothing to do with me of course ^_^
You're welcome guys .
Yeah thats a bunch of bull****. i was looking on ebay the other day for a broken wizard and i saw someone selling a program that would load farias wm6 rom onto their phone. I reported that **** right away. There are so many people on here that are so talented and make so much awesome programs and not charge us a dime for it, but then you got dicks like that guy who decides to profit off of other peoples hard work. Death to that ****er.
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
chenga said:
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
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I asked him about the programs and whether he developed them or not, here is the response I got:
"no not personally, but do talk to some of the developers and i donate some of my profit to them. any other questions feel free to ask
thanx
nate"
"i do cook my own roms if thats what you are asking, and just recieved an email asking me to remove this service and aparently reported to ebay, so i will not be able to offer this service at this time
sry
nate"
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Good Catch myztikal47.
I guess we can all help the developers here by keeping an eye out for this kind of crap.
I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have a sticky on this topic, something with an eye catching title, so more are aware of this issue, so as to be looking out for stinking thieves at places like ebay or craigslist.
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
wow he even had a picture of JJ rom on the page thats the lowest of low stealing and turning anround and making a profit off of it... His address is at the bottom of the page if anyone wants to send him a thank you card!
sinmae said:
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
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I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
This guy is back! But in a different flavor. I just found this today on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/CINGULAR-8525-HT...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
He is WAAAAYYY overcharging on this phone. His justification? 1) the free upgrades found on this site, and 2) a CD of cracked illegal software.
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
this isnt that much different from offering a service to fix phones that users have broken. IE i upgraded to windows mobile 6 and now it doesnt turn on.
yes hes selling other peoples work but really the people that pay him arnt paying him for the software they are paying him for the knowledge he has gained from reading
i would offer a repair service for noobs but theres allready people doing it.
its actually no different to taking a black rom and not donating then complaining about it
tallshorty said:
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
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What is to say those buyers are not M$ trying to get the individuals information and then suing him later? Just a thought...
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
myztikal47 said:
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
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I agree with you on that but look at how much higher he is selling the phone because of the free softwares. It's the same as offering the service, basically.
he must need some money to be doing this...this guy must be a crack addict...or meth...yeah probably meth addict, anyways
I'm saddened to see stuff like this go on...coupled with these annoying noobs flooding the forums, m$ being ever so watchful, and the eventuality of newer devices...the great people of XDA might just get turned off from all of this...i know some are already extremely annoyed
...only time will tell
I have a close personal friend that works for Microsoft in their Windows Mobile team and I am going to forward this thread as well as the links to the ebay auctions over to him.
mikechannon said:
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
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I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
shogunmark said:
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
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I don't disagree with your comment, but as JJ's work is freely available for folk to download it's impossible to stop anyone selling services to install it. But yes the negative attention of M$ (linked as it is to here) is certainly not what we want. If we are seen by M$ to be set against any moves to sell this kind of material or a service to install it I'm sure this will improve their view of us.
Mike

Ultrasoft money Registration Code

Do you have ultrasoft Money for Windows mobile Cracker?
Ahem:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=221545
11. No Piracy
We don't tolerate piracy facilitated through this board. What you do in your own time is your business, but this is a publicly used resource and we don't want to be threatened with legal action. Please, use common sense and respect the forum, its users, and those coders that write great code.
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Warez is forbidden on this forum. Do not ask for it, do not post the links to it, do not post warez here. You only get one warning then ban.
We don't want to be threatened with legal action.
THEY will sue us, and come after YOU. YOU cannot escape THEM. THEY will find you, and take proper action.
KarhU said:
Warez is forbidden on this forum. Do not ask for it, do not post the links to it, do not post warez here. You only get one warning then ban.
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OK thank you very much!!!
May I ask, does the cracking the ROM is allowed and permitted by the manufacturer? Or is this also another form of hacking... just askin...
Yagbadoodles said:
May I ask, does the cracking the ROM is allowed and permitted by the manufacturer? Or is this also another form of hacking... just askin...
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Did you not read my post?
We don't want to be threatened with legal action.
THEY will sue us, and come after YOU. YOU cannot escape THEM. THEY will find you, and take proper action.
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I read it, that is why I am asking because I saw some ROM modification topics hosted here.
mr_deimos said:
Ahem:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=221545
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I read it, that is why I am asking because I saw some ROM modification topics hosted here.
ROM modification is regarded as OK, because you can not buy the ROM in a shop or online (same goes for HTC software here), but cracking apps that are commercially available is a big no no here. Note that ROMs are not stored on this forum because of the possible legal actions too.
KarhU said:
ROM modification is regarded as OK, because you can not buy the ROM in a shop or online (same goes for HTC software here), but cracking apps that are commercially available is a big no no here. Note that ROMs are not stored on this forum because of the possible legal actions too.
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Yeah, ROM is not saved on this forum, becuase this is a forum and not a file hosting server e.g. rapidshare and mega upload. And Nielson admitted that modifying the ROM is not legal and it means unethical. But still the this forum is referencing the hosted ROM from the hosting server (RapidShare). And from the title itself of this thread "Development and Hacking", it pertains to hacking... just confused.
KarhU said:
ROM modification is regarded as OK, because you can not buy the ROM in a shop or online (same goes for HTC software here), but cracking apps that are commercially available is a big no no here. Note that ROMs are not stored on this forum because of the possible legal actions too.
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Question, does ROM modification is permitted by the manufacturer? Do they allow this and endorse this? If not, then it is not legal...
Question, does ROM modification is permitted by the manufacturer? Do they allow this and endorse this? If not, then it is not legal...
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Well yes and no. There has been an interesting conversation about warez in this thread.
Illegal or not ROM hacking does not damage sales of the device or OS manufacturer (as you buy the licence to OS by buying the device and OS itself is not commercially available) as opposed to warez. ROMs were hosted at this forum until M$ demanded them to be pulled last year. Legality or illegality of ROM hacking is a hard quaetion to answer - try to post your questions and objections to the thread I linked.
One reply for all from the abovementioned thread.
KarhU said:
Well yes and no. There has been an interesting conversation about warez in this thread.
Illegal or not ROM hacking does not damage sales of the device or OS manufacturer (as you buy the licence to OS by buying the device and OS itself is not commercially available) as opposed to warez. ROMs were hosted at this forum until M$ demanded them to be pulled last year. Legality or illegality of ROM hacking is a hard quaetion to answer - try to post your questions and objections to the thread I linked.
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Thnanks anyway....
Yagbadoodles said:
Thnanks anyway....
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You are welcome. Welcome to this forum. Observe the rules and you will find a lot of interesting stuff going on over here. Many great freeware pocket PC apps were created here on xda devs - S2U2, Battery Status Today plugin, FTouchFlo... I know it is not what you were looking for, but this place has lots to offer anyway.
Mga pinoy talaga pasaway!
Sorry for posting in our native language.. I just felt the need to say it. I'll just summarize:
ROMS are "not for sale". It's bundled with our devices. We just modify it to work better. No piracy.
Giving software that are "for sale" for free is piracy.
WAREZ = piracy.
DaVince said:
Mga pinoy talaga pasaway!
Sorry for posting in our native language.. I just felt the need to say it. I'll just summarize:
ROMS are "not for sale". It's bundled with our devices. We just modify it to work better. No piracy.
Giving software that are "for sale" for free is piracy.
WAREZ = piracy.
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But, does ROM can be treat as Open Source? If yes, we don't have issues; but re-engineering the software like ROM is prohibited as per manufacturer's EULA. Yes it is free and if the goal if for goodness, does it compensate the violation of EULA Terms and Conditions? Still it is un-ethical.
It is not just as simple as "Not For Sale" means no Piracy.
Let's just call it a grey legal area, and be grateful that MS and the various hardware manufacturers don't attempt to crack down on it.

Request your Custom Applications Here, and Save a Life

There are Children out there that are dieing,
and we need to help them.
You might be thinking... "Its Not worth my time",
but i am going to give you
REQUESTED APPS, GAMES, AND THEMES in return.
----------------------------------------------------
Please Visit www.WorldVision.org To learn more about These Children
----------------------------------------------------
How it works:
You Send a Donation to My paypal account
Once enough money is raised, i will send the money to WorldVision
Then, you send me a PM Or a Email Saying that you sent money.
I will respond asking you What Program You Want me to Build.
Within a Week, you'll have your dream Download Built.
-----------------------------------------------------
Click the Paypal Picture to Send a Donation​
​
Donators:
Your Name here
Your Name here
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what's this have to do with the xda forum, htc, development & hacking?
I make custom programs, = Development...
DhaMajoR said:
I make custom programs, = Development...
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Good cause I'll donate.
you might want to put some restrictions.. cuz im guessing you wont be able to develop anything anyone thinks up (like a new dialer, new contact manager etc etc all at once (i dont know if yur capable but even if you are.. you wont be doing much else but developing for months haha))
its a very noble cause though! great idea and i love where your heart is
I hope i dont get any Crazy Requests, but i hope to Get some money in, Thanks.
htctoucher said:
you might want to put some restrictions.. cuz im guessing you wont be able to develop anything anyone thinks up (like a new dialer, new contact manager etc etc all at once (i dont know if yur capable but even if you are.. you wont be doing much else but developing for months haha))
its a very noble cause though! great idea and i love where your heart is
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Yea I agree I just donated and I was thinking of m request and it might take a while
Jokesonyou, did you donate on paypal?
DhaMajoR said:
Jokesonyou, did you donate on paypal?
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Yes sir a 20 USD donation
Jokes On You said:
Yes sir a 20 USD donation
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make sure it was sent out to [email protected], because for some reason, i have the same Balance... $130 Usd. Starange.
EDIT: Thank you Octavia Lopez, for your Donation.
galaxys said:
what's this have to do with the xda forum, htc, development & hacking?
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Agree
Same question here
What is going to make if all here is for free?
This forum is not for making money, is for sahreing knowledge, help others and enjoy the FREE ROM´s and apps from the real Devs.
If I´m donating will be to this site!
Welcome to xda-developers.com
This site is about certain PDA-phones, made by a firm called HTC in Taiwan. Their makers named them 'Wallaby', 'Himalaya', 'Blue Angel', 'Wizard' and 'TyTN', but almost nobody knows them by those names. The mobile provider O2 sells them under the brand-name 'XDA', and that's what we had in our hands first. They're also known as Qtek, MDA, SX-56, Hermes and many, many other names.
Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
We hope that you will enjoy this site and find it as useful as we do. We encourage you to donate or otherwise support this site. Of course absolutely all proceeds from donations will benefit this community.
orb3000 said:
Agree
Same question here
What is going to make if all here is for free?
This forum is not for making money, is for sahreing knowledge, help others and enjoy the FREE ROM´s and apps from the real Devs.
If I´m donating will be to this site!
Welcome to xda-developers.com
This site is about certain PDA-phones, made by a firm called HTC in Taiwan. Their makers named them 'Wallaby', 'Himalaya', 'Blue Angel', 'Wizard' and 'TyTN', but almost nobody knows them by those names. The mobile provider O2 sells them under the brand-name 'XDA', and that's what we had in our hands first. They're also known as Qtek, MDA, SX-56, Hermes and many, many other names.
Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
We hope that you will enjoy this site and find it as useful as we do. We encourage you to donate or otherwise support this site. Of course absolutely all proceeds from donations will benefit this community.
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Okay sorry
DhaMajoR said:
Wana Be MOD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show more respect or you´ll get banned newbie
Learn and respect the rules
orb3000 said:
Wana be somebody
Click to expand...
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Okay orb300
orb3000 said:
Show more respect or you´ll get banned newbie
Learn the rules and then you can be somebody
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats mean.
MOD BREAK
please show respect for each other in this forum.....be nice!
thank you and have a nice weekend.
Liam
Who says that you'll really give the money to WorldVision? And who says that you'll actually develop the application? ...
DHA Major,
This seems like a very good idea, ie people donate to a worthy cause and they get a development back via you. You have several problems to overcome though to make this happen:
1) Credibility - people need to be convinved of your technical abilities and your ability to deliver.
2) Honest - you already have someone questioning whether the money will go to the cause. Not sure how you address this.
3) Apathy - Sadly a lot of people enjoy having things for free while not making any form of financial contribution. If you look through some of the threads on here from a while back you will see that some even demand things get developed and delivered even though developers are given their time, effort and technical abilities for free (search through some of the Schaps threads on XDA to see what I mean).
It might be a good start for you to develop and release an application for us to see what you can do (sorry, I have not been on here for a while so if you have already developed and released an app on here without me seeing it then that's great). Once that is in place then you need to find some way of ensuring that people donate and that there is evidence that the donations are heading off to the charity as expected.
I applaud your idea; just not sure how you get around some of the problems highlighted above.
Good luck.
WB

How XDA might be able to distribute ROM's legally without starting from scratch.

Just a thought... is it possible that we (XDA) could get a member of the OHA such as HTC (knowing they have a wiki already and are majorly banking on Android) or another vendor to "open a space" on their official wiki for us to host our ROM's? Something that has a clause in the membership stating that we agree that they have the right to incorporate anything that they want out of the developed ROM's into their own build and we get access to legally redistribute the Google apps as we are "members" of the vendor's development/testing team. Knowing the spirit of this community and the truly open attitude it supports I am sure this would be something that you all would be happy to agree with. This would protect the developers that have spent so much time making Android amazing and give the vendor an amazing "think tank" in action. This would basically give them hundreds or thousands of developers at no cost all innovating for themselves but contributing to the success.
**If you are a vendor reading...Just think of the great publicity your company would get for this small investment in the Android community**
This should allow us to continue to use XDA for most of our needs but give us a "safe place" to continue innovation.
i have a feeling, htc would do the opposite and send out C&D letters to all the hero devs since they are distributing htc's close source apps such as all of its htc widgets and apps and sense ui itself.
NguyenHuu said:
i have a feeling, htc would do the opposite and send out C&D letters to all the hero devs since they are distributing htc's close source apps such as all of its htc widgets and apps and sense ui itself.
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Probably so but if we sell the idea of them having so many developers working on the project for free they might just jump.
As stated by some one else (i forgot who) just because we are in the oha doesent mean we have access to the closed source we would have to license it out **if** they allow us
jjcd51590 said:
As stated by some one else (i forgot who) just because we are in the oha doesent mean we have access to the closed source we would have to license it out **if** they allow us
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I recall that statement but if we where "honorary members/developers" of/for the vendor then we could fall under the shadow of their ability to develop with/distribute Google's apps for "the vendor's" development testers (us).
lock or merge please~~~~
jaaronmoody said:
lock or merge please~~~~
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With what???
This is a new idea that if gotten into the right inspired hands is another possibility that shouldn't get lost in the context of the other ideas.
XDA does not host any of the roms anyway. Whether normal activities can be conducted here is not really an issue. WinMo users have been doing the same thing here for a long time, and it is far from OS. The developers who choose to post links to their roms that contain questionable content do so at their own risk.
Also if you didn't notice, they already have us as a testing/development team. They can read this forum just like the rest of us. This is probably the reason most of what is done here is overlooked by folks like HTC. Even if we are a rather large user base, compared to the total # of Android users we are still only a few. They probably see it like "oh they got ahold of the Hero image huh? Too late to complain now. Just leave 'em be and let 'em hack at it a bit. Maybe they'll see or fix something we didn't" It's the better way to handle it PR wise.
Regardless of whether they mind what the end user is doing, I doubt HTC would be very willing to jump on board & slap google like that. We should probably leave that subject alone, and be glad they aren't complaining too.
Not that this isn't a good idea. I even suggested forming a group to join the OHA so we could attempt to license the apps, and be more in the loop. Just don't think HTC will go for it.
jaaronmoody said:
lock or merge please~~~~
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Do you make any other kind of posts?
At the OP this would be good idea if we could pull it off
gurnted said:
XDA does not host any of the roms anyway. Whether normal activities can be conducted here is not really an issue. WinMo users have been doing the same thing here for a long time, and it is far from OS. The developers who choose to post links to their roms that contain questionable content do so at their own risk.
Also if you didn't notice, they already have us as a testing/development team. They can read this forum just like the rest of us. This is probably the reason most of what is done here is overlooked by folks like HTC. Even if we are a rather large user base, compared to the total # of Android users we are still only a few. They probably see it like "oh they got ahold of the Hero image huh? Too late to complain now. Just leave 'em be and let 'em hack at it a bit. Maybe they'll see or fix something we didn't" It's the better way to handle it PR wise.
Regardless of whether they mind what the end user is doing, I doubt HTC would be very willing to jump on board & slap google like that. We should probably leave that subject alone, and be glad they aren't complaining too.
Not that this isn't a good idea. I even suggested forming a group to join the OHA so we could attempt to license the apps, and be more in the loop. Just don't think HTC will go for it.
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Click to collapse
I have considered all of the facts you have listed which are valid points but if HTC wouldn't do it which I only used as an example some other vendor might do it. I just think that HTC is the preferred vendor as most of us use their equipment. This wouldn't be a slap to Google, it would be a way to endorse us as part of their development team.
By the way the OHA membership is a great idea. I think both options should be explored.
david1171 said:
Do you make any other kind of posts?
At the OP this would be good idea if we could pull it off
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Click to collapse
Any idea which Senior Members had connections inside HTC?
I work for a carrier and the HTC rep I deal with isn't the best to go to with something like this.
Wrong forum, just because Dream Development is the most popular doesn't mean you post unrelated topics in it.
Gary13579 said:
Wrong forum, just because Dream Development is the most popular doesn't mean you post unrelated topics in it.
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Click to collapse
So where should something like this be posted???
The idea I am trying to get out there doesn't fit into anything else as it is geared to creating an Android development resource.
Something that if it somehow works saves us all from doing what we all do already illegally.
Gary13579 said:
Wrong forum, just because Dream Development is the most popular doesn't mean you post unrelated topics in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never mind I guess. Looks like I got moved to the forum you saw fit.
Honestly, it shouldn't even be posted .
Not to be rude, but something like this would probably never work. Who all are licensing the software from Google? HTC, Samsung, maybe one or two more? These are all gigantic corporations who would laugh at it, imho.
We would have a better chance of contacting Google and asking how much they want for a license, then starting a donation drive.
Yeah I guess I could see someone stepping up to support this. All they would have to do is give permission to mod their roms. They could then look like the good guys who give their users a choice. I could see it now "Don't like our stock build of Android? Try one of these, or make your own." Now that would be the move to make for one of these companies who claim their phones are all about being "user customizable"
We would have a better chance of contacting Google and asking how much they want for a license, then starting a donation drive.
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Click to collapse
This stands a way better chance than the other option though.
Gary13579 said:
Honestly, it shouldn't even be posted .
Not to be rude, but something like this would probably never work. Who all are licensing the software from Google? HTC, Samsung, maybe one or two more? These are all gigantic corporations who would laugh at it, imho.
We would have a better chance of contacting Google and asking how much they want for a license, then starting a donation drive.
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Click to collapse
I don't disagree that we should gun for a license but like I said previously I work for a carrier and I believe they would go for something like this but I figure that a vendor would be a more likely target.
gurnted said:
Yeah I guess I could see someone stepping up to support this. All they would have to do is give permission to mod their roms. They could then look like the good guys who give their users a choice. I could see it now "Don't like our stock build of Android? Try one of these, or make your own." Now that would be the move to make for one of these companies who claim their phones are all about being "user customizable"
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Click to collapse
You nailed it on the head!!! Thank you for "getting it". Now the question is how to get this idea beyond XDA
gurnted said:
Yeah I guess I could see someone stepping up to support this. All they would have to do is give permission to mod their roms. They could then look like the good guys who give their users a choice. I could see it now "Don't like our stock build of Android? Try one of these, or make your own." Now that would be the move to make for one of these companies who claim their phones are all about being "user customizable"
This stands a way better chance than the other option though.
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Click to collapse
It'd require more effort from the vendor. They would have to be the ones distributing the ROMs to users, not us.
shagge68 said:
I don't disagree that we should gun for a license but like I said previously I work for a carrier and I believe they would go for something like this but I figure that a vendor would be a more likely target.
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Click to collapse
I doubt the carriers would have the license to distribute the software. Since it's essentially the vendor who installs the proprietary apps on them, I don't see the point to carriers having it.
And all of this is ignoring the fact that we don't even know the terms of the contract/license. It could very well be against the terms of either to do something like this.
A lot of carriers, and manufacturers have someone doing PR on most of the major social networks. Maybe you should try shooting some of them a line and see where it leads. Might at least get the message to someone who can get something like this worked out.

[Q] XDA anti-piracy policy

Is it just me, or is it weird that XDA disallows the posting of xap files for paid apps, but has a forum for HD2's running WP7?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
it's just you.
Hagenlund said:
it's just you.
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Click to collapse
ok fair enough...
Let me be more direct then.
How does the same policy that condemns the posting of .xap files for paid apps justify the piracy of Microsoft's WP7 OS?
munkeyphyst said:
ok fair enough...
Let me be more direct then.
How does the same policy that condemns the posting of .xap files for paid apps justify the piracy of Microsoft's WP7 OS?
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Click to collapse
Because its completley and utterly different.
If your moaning because you cant post/download warez here, go away, there are other forums for that, XDA is not the place.
I'm not advocating piracy at all. I just don't understand the double standard, or how it's "completley(sic) and utterly different"
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I think this thread is useless. I mean, why will you complain about something that is almost a miracle, that DFT made for us? Didn't you like that we can now run almost all smartphones OS on our HD2?
Man, I think you should review about your questions...
On the contrary, we need gripe and complaint threads so we can piss and moan without cluttering up the real threads. Not like I would post a complaint... people here are ruthless.
And I agree. It's laughable that I can come to these forums and hack the crap out of my phone with pirated OS software but I can't find apps to go with it.
Saw a ROM thread shut down for stuff like this. Ridiculous considering the ROM itself is PIRATED AND STOLEN... btw ty DFT
I equate it to the term military intelligence... just don't make no sense.
Its in microsoft's best interest to let as many people experience WP7 as they can, because then eventually they would want their next device be an ACTUAL WP7 device.
In terms of policy, why fix something that aint broke? If MS had a problem, they would have had this forum removed a long time ago. But even after months, it still exists.
And since you are already posting from a WP7 device, I would say the question is, why would u post this here? no hostility intended, just wondering....
One answer to the question - and I'm not saying it's the correct one - is that paid for XAPs are, by definition, available for sale through commercial channels. Posting them on here for free is clearly theft.
A mobile phone OS is supplied with hardware in order to make the hardware operate. It is not available to buy as a standalone product - Windows 7 for PC is a purchasable product; WP7 for mobile is not a purchasable product.
Just because there is no specific price to a product doesn't necessarily mean it's free, but it's that bit more difficult to cry 'thief'.
Arguably MS has more to gain from the extended testing offered by this community and it seems to me that MS tend to talk more about 'not supported' than 'not allowed' when it comes to people using WP7 on HD2 devices.
Therefore ROMs are tolerated, warez are not.
It may be harder to prove legally, WP7 may be a product that isn't for sale publicly, and Microsoft might look the other way, but that doesn't mean it still isn't stealing. Wrong is wrong regardless how one spins it.
I am thankful to all those in this community for their efforts and achievements, and I am glad that Microsoft is allowing this to continue, but let's face it... if you want to hack up and redistribute someone else's intellectual property they spent years and millions developing, you should go to work for Microsoft or pay them for the rights to use it.
Fact is, to sanction one form of stealing and ban another is a double standard.
Keep up the good work all. More free apps.. down with greedy bastards!!
I would guess that if the site was seen to breaking the law, MS would come after it and the ROM's would be taken down. The mere fact that the site has been hosting MS roms for ages now (not just WM7) also suggests MS can either do little about it or don't want to. It has to be the latter but the OP still raises an interesting question.
bisoner said:
I would guess that if the site was seen to breaking the law, MS would come after it and the ROM's would be taken down. The mere fact that the site has been hosting MS roms for ages now (not just WM7) also suggests MS can either do little about it or don't want to. It has to be the latter but the OP still raises an interesting question.
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Click to collapse
When cooking a WM ROM to put replace/use on a device already running WM you are basically modifying something that you already own, the WM OS.
Android is open source, and even though you still taking the someone else's extensive work with the open source and hacking it and using it, it typically is used in the same fashion, to replace an existing Andriod OS.
The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair, is public domain, and anyone can publish the text without royalties. It is, essentially, "opensource". However, it is illegal to photocopy and distribute my published edition of the book, with my artwork, my forewords and my apendixes filled with historical facts and data.
WP7 on an HD2 is different from all of these examples. It is ripping an OS from a device and distributing it illegally to others. If this was done with Windows 7 on a PC, no one would defend this. It would clearly be piracy.
Honestly, when I first heard of the WP7 port onto HD2, I thought it was cool and considered going that route myself, mostly because I loved the hardware. I'm not casting judgement on anyone.
I have read through many threads where mods came in and banned something that might be piracy.
There was a thread discussing the actual numbers of WP7 apps where a huge piracy debate ensued just because a screen shot showing the number of available apps might have also shown software that could be used to pirate software.
This comes up again in threads where device specific software is .xap'ed and made available to other devices.
It's a fuzzy line as to what XDA deems ok and what it will squash, eventhough I think the line of what is legal and what is not is far less fuzzy.
I brought the topic here, because this forum exists in it's entirety within that fuzzy gray area. I thought that maybe I was missing something, maybe MS ok'ed this, or maybe there was some mobile device OS exclusion that I was unaware of.
XDA is the way it is, I guess.
"sharing" paid apps is "piracy" and banned
"sharing" device specific apps is "research" and usually ok, even if they are paid apps elsewhere in the universe and are obviously used to entice buyers to specific handsets
"sharing" an OS is... ? "idk, stop asking," even if it isn't open source and can only be purchased with a device.
My 2 cents
From my perspective I would gladly pay Microsoft for WP7 for the HD2 if they would offer it. Just like I gladly pay for apps that are offered as such as well. The reason I think it is not a double standard to rip WP7 and not paid apps is evident in how Microsoft is handling the issue. They know that from a customer service standpoint is it ridiculous not to offer WP7 for the HD2. But like they said, the button layout doesn't quite work and I'm not sure they want to take the time and money creating support for the OS on the HD2.
Enter XDA: Microsoft thinks: Here's a group of folks that will do all that for us. So we lose a few bucks by not forcing people to buy the HD7 right now. Heck, people have always been pissed at us for doing that kind of thing anyway. Why don't we let these guys do their thing, keep the HD2 owners happy, and win some new customers with our sweet new OS. This way they never call us and we save time and money by not supporting the OS but we also look nice as we don't call them on it and ask them to stop.
And in my opinion, it's working. We baulked at Windows mobile compared to iOS or Android but MS has a good thing going with WP7. I'm interested.
And I trust that Microsoft need only ask and XDA would stop producing WP7 for HD2.
actually i really agree on what the OP brought up i mean its an amazing achievement and something that is mind blowing to have WP7, Android whatever your taste is on to our device but yeah i do think there is some sort of grey area in the piracy policy but without piracy where would we be? its a hate love thing i guess the bad thing about downloading Paid XAPs is that they werent meant to be downloaded illegaly and i bet all of us have done the crime, who here hasnt downloaded Windows 7 OS for your PC and run it illegaly? or XP or even MAC? we all do it yet its in a weird way acceptable but programs on the other hand seem to be viewed in a different way..i guess because an actual individual and not a REAL wall street company created these apps it hurts them more since i guess they expect to earn income and to some extent is what they do for a living..who knows..i guess thats my point of view on this...this isnt a useless thread is quite a smart question/topic on whats legal and whats illegal to do on here
while the OP theoretically makes a good point here's how it works practically:
*MS obviously doesn't give a **** because they've sent no C&D and they even give us keys when we say we're using an HD2
*This does not take any money away from MS because they won't sell us a WP7 license anyways
*No one actually is making ANY money from doing this EXCEPT wp7 developers.
*It is a gray area, and since there has been no C&D of any sort then it is totally different than cracking a paid app and distributing it, because the developers do care and do lose money and it is black and white
*W'eve seen these threads a thousand times and we're pretty sick of all the same arguments, that's why you're getting some vitriol, like that guy at the party who gets drunk and tells you the same "remember when I scored that touchdown?" story he's told you 5 gazillion times.
I agree. Posting Paid Apps that developers made is wrong. this is their way of living to gain an income. Besides if you wanted paid Xaps for free google search the name of the xap and put a sharing behind im sure you will come up with results.
CZARSUPERSTAR.
HD2
2 CLIQS
MYTOUCH 3.5
TMOBILE COMET
COBY KYROS TABLET
Agree 100% with orangekid.
Just want to add that MS itself has only to gain with this:
- They get money for each app bought and some services you use from them
- And guess what, they don't have to bother getting resources for supporting the HD2, as officially it is unsupported.
So, actually, everybody gains with WP7 in the HD2. Did you really think that MS was getting rich with the 10€ or so each WP7 license costs the manufacter?
It's all fun and games until someone is hurt. Nobody is being hurt or damaged. Although one might say that phone manufacters could be losing sales as people may buy an HD2 and run WP7 on it... But perhaps it is not significant enough...
On first blush, the "microsoft aint doing nothing about it so obviously it's ok" argument seems lame, but it may be somewhat valid. Maybe MS should get some props for allowing something like this to pass. I don't believe it's a matter of "not worth their time" or "nothing they can do about it". They shut down VistaTorrent, http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2006/06/30/microsoft-delivers-cease-and-desist-order-in-a-frame/, when they were distributing a free, open to the public, beta version. They put a stop to the Chevron team. As someone said, they could probably just ask XDA and this forum would go away. Maybe they will some day, who knows.
Is it true that you can call MS and tell them you're trying to install WP7 on an HD2 and they will just give you a reg number?
munkeyphyst said:
On first blush, the "microsoft aint doing nothing about it so obviously it's ok" argument seems lame, but it may be somewhat valid. Maybe MS should get some props for allowing something like this to pass. I don't believe it's a matter of "not worth their time" or "nothing they can do about it". They shut down VistaTorrent, http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2006/06/30/microsoft-delivers-cease-and-desist-order-in-a-frame/, when they were distributing a free, open to the public, beta version. They put a stop to the Chevron team. As someone said, they could probably just ask XDA and this forum would go away. Maybe they will some day, who knows.
Is it true that you can call MS and tell them you're trying to install WP7 on an HD2 and they will just give you a reg number?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From many reports in the threads talking about reg keys users have said they told reps they were using an HD2 and were still given the key
munkeyphyst said:
ok fair enough...
Let me be more direct then.
How does the same policy that condemns the posting of .xap files for paid apps justify the piracy of Microsoft's WP7 OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. When you buy a mobile phone, you cant choose a special OS for it (like Windows, Linux, Mac OS for a PC, the reason is that the software manufacturers don't do that because it is too complex, not everyone knows how to flash correctly a device) so you get an OS with it
2. The device manufacturers like HTC pays in advance the licence fees for the OS when selling the phone. So when you buy it, you pay automaticly the licence fee which is not so much then a licence for a regular pc. Android for exemple is free to use, for Windows phone/mobile the manufacturer pays normally 20$ for each device sold.
3. The device is already pre-installed
4. I called once microsoft and told them that I have a HD2 with WP7 and the agent told me that it is not supportet by them, but not illegal.

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