Database Users

The biggest Universal problem

Microsoft behind the thing! Operating system and applications in one dish and no big boy can eat in it. No competition. No killer apps coming from who knows where. No unskeduled innovations. No hurry to cover, bugs created, market holes.

And now in English? :shock:

S'funny I seem to have quite a few third party apps on my Universal, some of which I use more than any pre-installed ones from MS.
Also if you don't want to use MS products why not buy a nice Symbian based pda phone? The Motorola a1000 is nice and the SE P range.

IMHO
The biggest problem is not any one thing in particular...
Yesterday I used an old, disregarded & completely discarded Sony Ericsson T610 - which is about 3 years old.
So T610 Vs. Universal?
Of course one is a bluetooth mobile phone the other is clearly much more... but when you look at the fact that surely the primary function for a Universal has to be voice communication it made me think...
The T610 paired with my Motorola H500 BT headset immediately, it dialled, redialled and held calls with perfect clarity & reception. For being an old phone.. I was actually amazed at how speedy it responded making calls, accepting calls, switching from BT to phone, etc etc
all this was achieved with absolute effortless stability....
That made me think how 'awkward' my M5000 is in similar operations... the dropped calls, the dropped BT connections & so on... you know, all the issues we simplly just 'put up with'
Sifting through this forum again & reminding myself of these many different issues we've all at one time or another experienced with our Universals such as stability, responsiveness, performance & the like are the biggest problems
Shame really.. as on paper the Universal is indeed a very fine unit - in operation however it leaves a lot to be desired...

philtech44 said:
IMHO
.. but when you look at the fact that surely the primary function for a Universal has to be voice communication it made me think....
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Fact? Get real. No one in their right mind (not even MS or O2) would claim that the primary function of the Universal is voice communication. Even your own sig makes that obvious

Ineedtoys said:
philtech44 said:
IMHO
.. but when you look at the fact that surely the primary function for a Universal has to be voice communication it made me think....
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Click to collapse
Fact? Get real. No one in their right mind (not even MS or O2) would claim that the primary function of the Universal is voice communication. Even your own sig makes that obvious
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Click to collapse
What? not a phone?
Then why is it provided by mobile phone companies?
... as a flagship model!!!

philtech44 said:
What? not a phone?
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You claimed that voice was the PRIMARY function. If that's the case, why did you pay all that money for the VGA display, large keyboard, 3G, and Pocket PC / Windows Mobile OS, for something that doesn't even have a caller display on the cover? But since you've got the M5000, let's look at Orange's own buy-line:-
"The Orange SPV M5000 is a 3G PDA that can be used to make and receive voice calls"
There you go. 3G PDA first, voice last. No attempt to call it a "phone", like Sony make no attempt to call the T610 a "PDA".
Then why is it provided by mobile phone companies?
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Err... Now you are being silly. Who gets the revenue from 3G and GPRS usage?
... as a flagship model!!!
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It might be flagship model, but it's a DATA centric device for business users, which is why the whole design is geared to using as it as a mini-laptop replacement.
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Indeed. There are plenty of other devices more suited if you need something more "Phone" like. Sounds to me like you just bought it because it was the most expensive, instead of what was right for your needs. That's hardly HTC's fault. :roll:

I kind of agree. I think alot of the phone has been spoiled by ONLY using Windows. (i dont think windows is crap and are not trying to slate it)
There are a few features that other phones have that make them well trick, wee lights that change colour, torches - a bunch of stuff that, lets be hounest you do not need but, makes the phone cool and helps to justify the massive brick in your pocket.
like why was VGA not supported properly? why dont the external buttons light up? why not a torch with the flash?
just my tuppance worth
JAmes

I think one of the major issues here is that the PDA operating system is trying very hard to fit in with its parent, Windows XP. So, just as Outlook, MS Access etc struggle to work with vCard formats, so does the PDA. In this day and age, when even kids tend to have two mobiles (or two cell phone numbers), how can your Contacts database be limited to one mobile number but umpteen fields for landline voice/fax numbers.
Soon, at least in the UK, mobiles are going to overtake landlines (it may already have done so for private/residential users, I don't know).
As a Mac user, I can easily transfer numbers between the Mac, SE P910i and Nokia 9500, and all the mobile numbers for each contact come across (on the N9500 you have to just change the field def, which isn't a prob) but having transferred 600+ vCards to the M5000, I lost all primary mobile numbers and only got the second or third preference mobile across.
At the very least, you should be able to add/redefine fields in the Contacts database -- I've looked and can't find any info or facility for this. That is just one of the deficiencies of WinCE/WM5.
Actually, I'm hoping that now Apple has adopted Intel chips, one of these days they're going to announce a Mobie version of OS X -- now that would be something. I'm sure a lot of users would at least try it, and many of those would even migrate (I can dream, can't I?)

Ineedtoys said:
philtech44 said:
What? not a phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You claimed that voice was the PRIMARY function. If that's the case, why did you pay all that money for the VGA display, large keyboard, 3G, and Pocket PC / Windows Mobile OS, for something that doesn't even have a caller display on the cover? But since you've got the M5000, let's look at Orange's own buy-line:-
"The Orange SPV M5000 is a 3G PDA that can be used to make and receive voice calls"
There you go. 3G PDA first, voice last. No attempt to call it a "phone", like Sony make no attempt to call the T610 a "PDA".
Then why is it provided by mobile phone companies?
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Click to collapse
Err... Now you are being silly. Who gets the revenue from 3G and GPRS usage?
... as a flagship model!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might be flagship model, but it's a DATA centric device for business users, which is why the whole design is geared to using as it as a mini-laptop replacement.
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Click to collapse
Indeed. There are plenty of other devices more suited if you need something more "Phone" like. Sounds to me like you just bought it because it was the most expensive, instead of what was right for your needs. That's hardly HTC's fault. :roll:
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ineedtoys - has the cheek to say I bought the most expensive toy with a username like that?!
javascript:emoticon(':?')
I'm not going to argue whether the primary function is a phone or mini-laptop/pda, etc etc
or whether a T610 is PDA or indeed a bacon sandwich or something...
As with any MULTI-FUNCTION device - they are simply different things to different people dont you think?
ineed, the title of this thread is "the biggest problem..."
I believe the fact that the phone function of the Universal is not what it should be makes it the biggest problem for me & I suspect quite a few others...
It's quite clear you don't agree with that.. I never made that statement to p*** you or anyone off... or feel the need to argue my case... it's my opinion... and essentially what I'm saying I suspect many would agree with.. However, you haven't yet joined in with the thread and offered your OWN view on what you believe is the biggest problem...??
So, in your view, what is the biggest problem with the Universal ??

@philtech44
I'm wth you - the Universal should do the basic functions of a cell/mobile phone at least as good as the T610 or a K750. A SIM free Universal is between $900 - $1000. For this kind of money you should be getting the best communications device. My daughter's free Moto v3X shows the gap in communication capability of the Universal - you see these are both 3G phones and the extra capacity of 3G improves voice calls, but not on the Universal!

jah said:
@philtech44
I'm wth you - the Universal should do the basic functions of a cell/mobile phone at least as good as the T610 or a K750. A SIM free Universal is between $900 - $1000. For this kind of money you should be getting the best communications device. My daughter's free Moto v3X shows the gap in communication capability of the Universal - you see these are both 3G phones and the extra capacity of 3G improves voice calls, but not on the Universal!
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My point exactly.. my crappy old T610's phone functions including bluetooth worked effortlessy well... my M5000 felt like a Nokia Cityman in comparison and this is wrong...
and yes - for a flagship 3G device.... well... I will say that out of the Universal and two baked bean cans connected via a piece of string... yes, the Universal wins... :lol:

sipat said:
I think one of the major issues here is that the PDA operating system is trying very hard to fit in with its parent, Windows XP. So, just as Outlook, MS Access etc struggle to work with vCard formats, so does the PDA. In this day and age, when even kids tend to have two mobiles (or two cell phone numbers), how can your Contacts database be limited to one mobile number but umpteen fields for landline voice/fax numbers.
Soon, at least in the UK, mobiles are going to overtake landlines (it may already have done so for private/residential users, I don't know).
As a Mac user, I can easily transfer numbers between the Mac, SE P910i and Nokia 9500, and all the mobile numbers for each contact come across (on the N9500 you have to just change the field def, which isn't a prob) but having transferred 600+ vCards to the M5000, I lost all primary mobile numbers and only got the second or third preference mobile across.
At the very least, you should be able to add/redefine fields in the Contacts database -- I've looked and can't find any info or facility for this. That is just one of the deficiencies of WinCE/WM5.
Actually, I'm hoping that now Apple has adopted Intel chips, one of these days they're going to announce a Mobie version of OS X -- now that would be something. I'm sure a lot of users would at least try it, and many of those would even migrate (I can dream, can't I?)
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yes sipat.. that is definitely another big problem
As far as Apple is concerned & being a Mac specialist myself, you could only imagine a OSX Mobile OS... simple, effective, robust and as far as connectivity & compatibility is concerned.. well we live to dream eh?

I'm sorry I don't agree. At the current point that technology stands you will not get an open OS multi-function device operating as well and as effeciently as a closed OS phone. Granted that Symbian may be more stable, but then it is the much older more experienced OS too.
The T610 has basically one job, it operates as a phone, using it's own software, which has all been written to work together at the expense of ignoring other possibilities.
The universal has an open OS which has to allow third parties to add software, that dosn't even exist yet. This open software is bound to be slower, it has to be, it has too many possibilities it has to consider.
Comparing the speed of a T610 and a universal is like comparing the Fuel economy of a Bicycle and a Jeep. They are 2 entirely different things.
I do know what the biggest problem for the universal is. It's the end user, the majority of which are completely outside of the intended trarget audience, and missuse a little knowledge badly.
Funny how my Universal never drops call, bluetooth works perfectly for handsfree and GPS. I can't remember the last time I soft reset, and when I did it was only part of the installation of new software. It dosn't crash, freeze or run any slower then I'd expect. Why is this? Am I just incredibly lucky?
However I have been using PDA's for a long time, and have come at this device as a PDA with a phone built in, rather than the other way round. If people think a T610 is better, (and yes I did have one once). Then you have bought the completely wrong device with a Universal, because while your T610 may be faster, my Universal is providing so many more functions.
(EDIT): lol Wow, that wasn't intended to come out as such a rant.

Gajet said:
I'm sorry I don't agree. At the current point that technology stands you will not get an open OS multi-function device operating as well and as effeciently as a closed OS phone. Granted that Symbian may be more stable, but then it is the much older more experienced OS too.
The T610 has basically one job, it operates as a phone, using it's own software, which has all been written to work together at the expense of ignoring other possibilities.
The universal has an open OS which has to allow third parties to add software, that dosn't even exist yet. This open software is bound to be slower, it has to be, it has too many possibilities it has to consider.
Comparing the speed of a T610 and a universal is like comparing the Fuel economy of a Bicycle and a Jeep. They are 2 entirely different things.
I do know what the biggest problem for the universal is. It's the end user, the majority of which are completely outside of the intended trarget audience, and missuse a little knowledge badly.
Funny how my Universal never drops call, bluetooth works perfectly for handsfree and GPS. I can't remember the last time I soft reset, and when I did it was only part of the installation of new software. It dosn't crash, freeze or run any slower then I'd expect. Why is this? Am I just incredibly lucky?
However I have been using PDA's for a long time, and have come at this device as a PDA with a phone built in, rather than the other way round. If people think a T610 is better, (and yes I did have one once). Then you have bought the completely wrong device with a Universal, because while your T610 may be faster, my Universal is providing so many more functions.
(EDIT): lol Wow, that wasn't intended to come out as such a rant.
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Firstly, nothing to be sorry about... BUT gajet do stop it!
Do yourself a big favour & dont try to turn my simple statement into a silly
HTC Universal Vs. Sony Ericsson T610 contest... that is not what I said!!
you've foolishly twisted my very SIMPLE point into something utterly ridiculous my friend!
Your comparison between bicycles, Jeeps and the like is also junk pal!!
Kindly go back to my original post and take it at FACE VALUE...
A phone is a phone. A PDA is a PDA.
A PDA with a phone is what it is and so is a Phone with a PDA...
the point is anything that calls itself a phone, whether or not integrated with a toaster or a kettle, PDA or surgically inserted somewhere interesting, should therefore function both properly and effectively, and with some degree of quality as a bleedin' phone!!!
Do you agree with that statement or not?
It's quite clear... the Universals performance as a phone is somewhat cr*ppy for todays technology - its a let down, no question about it. Could be & should be better!
I've compared only that function, to a phone that was designed 5 years ago, manufactured 4 years ago and released to the public thereafter.. and that FACT is my only point here in this thread...
Now as for your own personal experience of Universals, well might I suggest searching the forum for threads which cover the FACT that the Universal - for some of us - does drop calls, Bluetooth is temperamental, are forced to soft & hard reset, and so on... I mean why is the Universal forum so huge with 100's of 1000's of views in its history, with issues AND fixes abound?
But again I must stress, my personal view is the Universals phone function is cr*ppy compared to what it really should be... This is 2006... not 2001... if you dont agree lets see what phone performance will be like in HTC's next generation & equivalent of the Universal...
Do you think they will upgrade all the other functions and leave the phone as it is then?!
get me now??

philtech44 said:
IMHO
So T610 Vs. Universal?
...
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Actually it is exactly what you said.
And my points which you completely missed are if you are going to compare the Universal to other devices, it should be compared to it's peers, not to a completely different device. Compare the Universal to the other similar PDA/phone combos by HTC, a HP Ipaq phone edition, it would even be fair to compare against a Moto a1000, SE P910 etc
Of course these devices improve over time, my Universal is considerable better than my Blue Angel, which appears in turn to have been better than the original XDA range. So yes the next device will probably be better still, but then where on earth did you get the impression I ever thought otherwise.

Gajet said:
philtech44 said:
IMHO
So T610 Vs. Universal?
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it is exactly what you said.
And my points which you completely missed are if you are going to compare the Universal to other devices, it should be compared to it's peers, not to a completely different device. Compare the Universal to the other similar PDA/phone combos by HTC, a HP Ipaq phone edition, it would even be fair to compare against a Moto a1000, SE P910 etc
Of course these devices improve over time, my Universal is considerable better than my Blue Angel, which appears in turn to have been better than the original XDA range. So yes the next device will probably be better still, but then where on earth did you get the impression I ever thought otherwise.
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So I did!! errr... whoops!
But still it should still operate as a phone mate & do so well.. it is sold by mobile phone companies isn't it?

No I agree with you 100% there. However when I compare the Universal to other devices of similar functionality on the current market, then it comes out very well.
In fact where I hang out usually at 3g.co.uk, they compare the Universal against other 3g phones, (Which I do realise goes completely against my main point :roll: ), but the Universal still comes out very well.
Yes the universal could be better, (mainly speed wise), but at this current point in time it does very well.
I wish I could clone mine to pass around to all those having troubles, but my suspicion is that most troubles are generated when some tweaking, or installation of third party apps are involved, or more commonly when the damn phone companies insist on using their own versions of HTC's software, (O2 Active and the damn Orange homescreen for example).
Anyway all the above is purely my oppinion, I had no intention of getting into any personal arguements and hopefully we have come to an understanding here

Gajet said:
I do know what the biggest problem for the universal is. It's the end user, the majority of which are completely outside of the intended trarget audience, and missuse a little knowledge badly.
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Hi. I don't want to crank this up to another level, especially after the last post about coming to some understanding. Us Mac guys know that you can get quite emotionally attached to your gadjets, Gajet, but that statement above is so condescending!
I don't think you give people enough credit -- some may have bought their phone because it was the most expensive and is had good "showing-off/one-upmanship" value, but most of have acquired to manage our work and life. When you pay a premium price, you expect a premium product. Using your analogy, you wouldn't expect to have handle-bars instead of a steering wheel in your Jeep, eh?
In my opinion, it is fairer to compare the functionality of a PDA with similar functions on a desktop machine. and, my gripe is still about the Contacts database -- I want editable fields and true vCard compatibility. I don't think I'm expecting too much from what is supposedly a mature product (the Contacts bit is based on Windows for PC tech after all). As this is my first Win based mobile OS I'm still trying to sort out certain issues, but I understand that even moving data from/between supposedly similar or compatible PDAs is not straight forward.
Aaahh! Maybe Mac users are just spoiled silly, hey.

Everybody keeps talking about what the thing is and what should be, but this is not the reason i started this topic for. So i must repeat myself. Who can fix bluetooth problems? Microsoft. Who can fix radio problems? Microsoft. Who can fix performance problems? Microsoft. Who can fix basic applications problems? Microsoft. Who can fix data sync problems? Microsoft. So we totally depend on Microsoft and she can take all the time she wants.

x7500 or iphone???

hey people plz dont hate my question!
i have now iphone very nice and i like it
i work in a digidal shop
few hours ago came to me person and saw my iphone and show me his x7500
and told me if i want to change one for one
i dont know what to do can you help me?
my problem is that i dont like blutooth head set
so how can i speak with it
and the second where can i put it ?
in my pocket?????
wait for your replay
thxxxx peolpe

This is an apples and oranges comparison.
The x7500 is a handheld computer and the iPhone is a mobile phone.
You have to have big pockets if you want to put the x7500 in one of them, and using it as a handset is kinda like Maxwell Smart with his shoe phone. But with a bluetooth headset, you have a much more capable communications device than your iPhone. Just to mention a few improvements, the x7500 has a keyboard, 3G internet, a2dp stereo bluetooth, and the ability to add much more memory using a miniSD card.
If you want a phone to put in your pocket, keep the iPhone. If you want a PDA that is nearly a laptop and has excellent communications capabilities, the x7500 is hard to beat.
Besides, you can probably sell the x7500 and buy 2 iPhones. Your friend made you an offer that is hard to refuse.

THXXXXXXX MY FRIEND FOR THE NICE REPLAY
I HAD BEFOR THE IPHONE THE JASJAM SO I KNOW ALMOST EVERY THING ABOUT
HTC POCKT I EVEN WAS COOCKING MY OWN STUFF LONG TIME AGO FOR MY JASJAM SO I CAN MAKE MUCH MORE WITH THE X-7500
BUT I DONT KNOW WHERE TO PUT THE PDA LOLLLL
I DONT LIKE TO GO WITH WALLET
MAYBE IN MY POCKET MMMMMM DONT KNOW DAMN
ILL THINK ABOUT IT FEW MORE HOURES BUT IF ILL GONNA BAY IT
ILL HELP YOU GUYS IN THE FORUM TO MAKE THE BEST OUT OF IT
THXXXXXXX

writing everything in CAPITAL letters is rude and seen as shouting :S

sorry bro didnt notice im in the middle of work

X7500, iPhone or carrot - tough choice but they are three very different things.

if i want to go out with friends how can i carry the x-7500?
i need a phone with me !
and dont tell me its not phone i need one for every thing

bubu23 said:
if i want to go out with friends how can i carry the x-7500?
i need a phone with me !
and dont tell me its not phone i need one for every thing
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No, you don't need one device for each gadget. No separete phone, separate GPS, separate MP3, separate video player... One device would do it all.
This review covers not just the issue of using Athena as a phone but also many other aspects also.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365794
You should change it with your friend before he realises his foolishness.

Or get a Nokia E90

I have both and I wouldn't want to be without either, but if it was only one device I could have it would have to be the iPhone.
No way does the 7500 replace a phone. Okay, you could use a BT headset or similar, but would you want to carry it around on a night out? No way.
iPhone gives me great net access when on the go, but more serious work and play I carry the 7500 too when necessary.

uczmeg said:
I have both and I wouldn't want to be without either, but if it was only one device I could have it would have to be the iPhone.
No way does the 7500 replace a phone. Okay, you could use a BT headset or similar, but would you want to carry it around on a night out? No way.
iPhone gives me great net access when on the go, but more serious work and play I carry the 7500 too when necessary.
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i use 7500 for phone call without BT, not a problem.
I carry it with me at all times.
OK, I hear that you use both, but it is just one of the choices and not as if there is no choice.
For most who want only one device,I think iPhone can't use spare battery, can't surfwith HSDPA speed, does'nt do GPS(therefore can't possibly be the ONLY device you have to carry), can't have the same breath of third party softwares, desktop class word processing/spreadsheet/presentation on big screen, ......

eaglesteve said:
For most who want only one device,I think iPhone can't use spare battery, can't surfwith HSDPA speed, does'nt do GPS(therefore can't possibly be the ONLY device you have to carry), can't have the same breath of third party softwares, desktop class word processing/spreadsheet/presentation on big screen, ......
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Click to collapse
At the end of the day a person can only base it on their needs as everyone's is different.
I'd do the trade just because the 7500 is worth way more than the iPhone, especially with a new model due out in a few weeks. (although I guess you could say the same about the 7500 now the 7510 is appearing, but whether that is better is a whole different thread).
Unrelated, but if I could only have once device then I guess it would be the Kaiser. Just because of size and carrying a phone to the pub thing. But I find that too much of a compromise and would rather carry two devices when necessary.
The perfect do everything device is close, but not quite here yet. (At least for me.)

uczmeg said:
At the end of the day a person can only base it on their needs as everyone's is different.
I'd do the trade just because the 7500 is worth way more than the iPhone, especially with a new model due out in a few weeks. (although I guess you could say the same about the 7500 now the 7510 is appearing, but whether that is better is a whole different thread).
Unrelated, but if I could only have once device then I guess it would be the Kaiser. Just because of size and carrying a phone to the pub thing. But I find that too much of a compromise and would rather carry two devices when necessary.
The perfect do everything device is close, but not quite here yet. (At least for me.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kaiser is QVGA and the screen size is too tiny for spreadsheet, word pro, etc. I still think that Athena is the best single device that does it all today. Definitely worth swapping with the first generation iPhone.

Buy a Hugo Boss dress pants, x7500 will fit snuggly and nicely, people won't even notice.
aonanodad said:
This is an apples and oranges comparison.
The x7500 is a handheld computer and the iPhone is a mobile phone.
You have to have big pockets if you want to put the x7500 in one of them, and using it as a handset is kinda like Maxwell Smart with his shoe phone. But with a bluetooth headset, you have a much more capable communications device than your iPhone. Just to mention a few improvements, the x7500 has a keyboard, 3G internet, a2dp stereo bluetooth, and the ability to add much more memory using a miniSD card.
If you want a phone to put in your pocket, keep the iPhone. If you want a PDA that is nearly a laptop and has excellent communications capabilities, the x7500 is hard to beat.
Besides, you can probably sell the x7500 and buy 2 iPhones. Your friend made you an offer that is hard to refuse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I am a proud owner of HTC Advantage X7500 and Iphone, but not looking at X7510 due to lack of processor and RAM upgrade, the RAM is still 128MB. And I like my front facing VGA camera, and my mini-joystick.
I prefer to flash my Advantage than my Iphone in the public, coz its rare! And even there is 2 Advantage sitting side by side, they are goin to look very different! Very Customised!! My Iphone just look standard and identical with my colleague's one, the 'Head-turning' effect of iphone is starting to lack nowadays.
And I do most of the time put the X7500 in my pocket.
But If anyone want pocketibility and most, if not all the advantages that the 'Advantage' have, take a look at HTC touch PRO, the one look like HTC diomond but with an added keyboard..... and these things here got 256RAM!!Its blazing!
I wish that we can upgrade the Advantage's RAM!! Coz no other function or upgrade can ever replace my desire for a nice 5inch screen on my advantage, and make me change my device!
But Iphone help me get more attention from chicks. And chick dont really dig the X7500. My girlsfen hates the X7500!! LOL
(I use my Advantage to my advantage as Excel and word document composer, powerpoint presenter(TV-out), Appointment Scheduler, HSDPA internet access, Remote desktop access, MP3/movie Player, incar GPS navigator, game console, Podcast/news reader,namecard scanner/recogniser,Ebook reader, Dictionaries(8 of them),USB hard-drive, Advance Scientific callculator replacement,camera, and so much more...like making call,set task,emails and sms.)

i beg to disagree... im a girl but i dig the x7510... in fact, im dying to have one... i'm begging my husband to get me one before the year ends and he just couldnt understand my fascination with it. He'd rather get me an iphone or just a tytn plus a umpc. But I put my foot down, it's the x7510 or i'll be very upset

cuteangelika said:
i beg to disagree... im a girl but i dig the x7510... in fact, im dying to have one... i'm begging my husband to get me one before the year ends and he just couldnt understand my fascination with it. He'd rather get me an iphone or just a tytn plus a umpc. But I put my foot down, it's the x7510 or i'll be very upset
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Click to collapse
Way to go girl...lol

My solution has been to get a cheap cellphone off eBay (Cingular 3125) when I just need a phone. But mostly take the Advantage, except in rare instances (sports event and the like).
I find that with BT headset and my MBW-150 watch (which tells me who a caller is, as well as the sender and the subject line for a new message) I only dig out my Advantage when needed. But when I need it it's there... near-laptop capabilities right at my hand.
For now, I will stay with the Advantage. The iphone lacks (a) MS Office compatibility, (b) customization, (c) push e-mail, and (d) customization. However, given the release of a SDK for iPhone, that will probably change soon. I assume that an Office clone will come out, push e-mail has been announced through "MobileMe", and other options to make the device more personal will no doubt increase as well. I give the iPhone 6-12 months until the drool factor will overtake me... unless HTC comes up with a real successor to the Advantage better than the 7510.

WOOOT Android will Leapfrog Iphone

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/57664
Watch out, iPhone—Android's nipping at your heels.
Researchers at Gartner (via AppleInsider) are predicting that the global market share for Google's Android mobile OS could overtake the iPhone's in a little over two years, with Android poised to leapfrog Apple into the No. 2 spot.
That would leave the iPhone in the No. 3 position—right where it is now, behind BlackBerry and Nokia's Symbian OS, according to Gartner. The industry researchers believe that by 2012, Research in Motion (the company behind the BlackBerry) will have lost 7 percent of its market share, causing it to slip into fifth place (behind even Windows Mobile). Android, meanwhile, will get a 12.9-percent boost to become the No. 2 smartphone platform in the world, with Symbian still safe in the No. 1 spot (with a dominating, although dwindling, 39 percent of the global market).
Those are just analyst predictions, of course, and two years is an eternity in the wireless world; after all, two years ago today, we were still getting used to the first iPhone.
That said, I think the gist of Gartner's prediction—that Android is poised to take the wireless market by storm—is spot on, and we've seen evidence of that in the past few months and weeks.
Google's open-source Android platform—which boasts one of the finest touchscreen interfaces out there, iPhone included—came slow out of the gates in fall 2008 with the solid, if uninspiring T-Mobile G1. We had to wait almost a year for the next Android phone in the U.S., but we finally got one this past August with the G1's follow-up, the HTC-made myTouch 3G (also on T-Mobile).
Soon after, what started as a trickle quickly became a flood. Sprint trotted out its first Android phone, the eye-catching, touchscreen HTC Hero, and then T-Mobile followed suit with the Motorola Cliq, its third Android handset ... followed by the Samsung Behold II just a few days ago. On Tuesday, Verizon Wireless announced it would launch a pair of Android phones before the end of the year, while Sprint announced its second Android phone—the Samsung Moment—a day later. Oh, and now there's rumors that Dell wants in on the Android action, with a new handset possible slated for iPhone carrier AT&T.
Let's see, that's ... one, two, three, four ... five new Android phones in in the past few months, with two more—and possibly even a third—due by the end of the year, from two (or maybe three) different manufacturers and three (possibly four) carriers. Some will be better than others, but consumers will have plenty of models (and carriers) from which to choose.
Of course, a bunch of new phones on the market doesn't mean diddly unless someone buys them, and for now, Apple has a solid 10.8- versus 1.6-percent lead over Android in terms of global smartphone market share. But Apple is the only company making iPhones, while the open-source (and high-quality) Android platform is available to all manufacturers and carriers—and from what we've been seeing, they're taking the ball and running with it.

I phone killa!

never touched an iphone and probly never will.

phatmanxxl said:
never touched an iphone and probly never will.
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Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!

unless android devices leap away from qualcomm chipset, i'm not sure about the end user satisfaction
i've tried quite a few qualcomm based devices, some non-smartphones as well, and i have to say they all suck compared to non-qualcomm based devices, sucky multimedia, sucky network performance!
try htc diamond & i-mate 8150 side by side, you'll will know what i'm talking about

X-i-phoner said:
Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!
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I got nothing against iphones really. im sure if I got to use one for a day I'd probly like it. But being on T-mobile for over over 5 years I tend to only pay attention to T-mo and At&t phones.
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.

phatmanxxl said:
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.
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Agreed, I can also see android doing the same stuff apple is now too.

Back in the early days of the PC when it was Apple vs IBM, IBM won because they licensed their architecture to various manufactures which were then able to make 100% Compatible IBM clones. Apple on the other hand insisted that it keep manufacturing in house, and look what happened.
~20 years later we may see history repeat itself.

You can't assume that apple is going for world domination. Their past successes have been based entirely off the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, which they are likely to hold on to no matter what anyone else does.
The reason for their *temporary* position in the smartphone business is simple; they happened to be in the right place at the right time... and very lucky. A few years ago, palm was in a position to dominate the smartphone market, but they dragged their feet and allowed ugly-as-the-1970's RIM to capture the business user market. Palm *used to* have the business market, and even had a (at the time) very slick and colorful UI with touch screen and more features than you could shake a stick at, and at a time when RIM had clunky black-and-white displays, no graphics to speak of, and that stupid roller wheel. So at a time when a smartphone only really made sense to a business user, palm had devices that were actually quite attractive to just about everybody, but they stagnated rather than taking advantage of what they had, which left them in a very weak state when apple showed up to take the *entire* non-business smartphone market -- right at the time when it started making sense for *everybody* to have a smartphone.
So right before 'droid showed up, the smartphone market was severely skewed... on one hand, you had RIM with all the business market, on the other hand, you had apple with all the pleasure market. Android though, has the potential to be everything for everybody, and by everybody I mean google and the OHA, phone manufacturers, carriers, and even users.
If their computer business is any indication, apple isn't about to drop their prices to anything sensible -- they're still sitting at about FOUR TIMES what it would cost for generic hardware. For whatever reason, this appeals to the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, that, along with the shinyness... MEANING: there are going to be TONS of manufacturers wielding android, COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER regarding prices. Which is a great thing. It means that we can look forward to very inexpensive 'droid devices while the likes of apple price themselves out of the market. Even now, the current i-phony is about $200 CDN more than Dream or Magic -- and don't give any crap that its "better" -- it does, after all, run their crap software.
Somebody said symbian? The fact that the world's cheapest mobile phone manufacturer wants to call their crap proprietary firmware by some name doesn't make it a dominating factor in anyone's opinion. Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of), every provider gives them away for FREE to anybody who signs up for a contract.... since many people already HAVE a phone that they want to use and the carrier forces them into the contract anyways, they get a free phone that may never even get removed from the box. In fact, I have a BOX full of them myself, more of them than any other phone, and yet not a single one of them has so much as been turned on. And yet it counts as a sale in favor of "symbian". So by my math, about half the mobile phones delivered are the "free" ones that come with the contract.

lbcoder said:
Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of),.
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http://www.nokiausa.com/buy-online?CMP=KNC-SEM_001&site=Google&device=BuyOnline
The n97 and n900 are sweet phones. Nokias market is dominating in china and japan. Many other places dont get to see all the cool stuff Noika puts out because Nokia doesnt need to advertise it anywhere else. My little bro got the N95 developer edition the day it came out, He still has it and it is still really advanced compared to most phones.

I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.

phatmanxxl said:
I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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Click to collapse
Two things about your prediction...
1. Companies can have more input as to what goes into their business phones.
Imagine my company XYZ starts a contract for the carrier to provide a specific hardware/cellular platform. I can then take that hardware platform and load my customized Android platform onto it. What company wouldn't want that level of control over their business assets? You certainly can't get that with RIM.
2. The carriers, more than anyone, decide what functions a particular phone is marketed towards. From a financial and support perspective, what carrier wouldn't want to have a single OS for all device types and just load in specific apps to cater to specific functions? (Warning: Pie in the sky opinion follows.) Need a business phone? Here is our business suite on our business hardware. Want a gamer device? Here is our game hardware with our game suite. Support would be simplified because under the hood it all works very similarly.
And my prediction...
You will see business class Android devices much sooner than you think. Just because they have not been announced yet does not mean that they are not already in the works. It is a smart move for Google to market towards the prosumers first and businesses later. Let the prosumers work out the kinks and storm the business market later with your well tested and hardened OS. Basically, we (the devs here mainly) are doing most of the work for them... (Queue Adam Sandler) FOR FREEEEEEEE!

The only thing the iPhone has against the G1 is the fact that its thinner, but now we have the MyTouch which runs Android and is also thin...Suck it Apple!

phatmanxxl said:
...and by far the best damn keyboards ever.
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You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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Click to collapse
That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.

lbcoder said:
You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.
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Click to collapse
lol u tell him
but IMO blackberry devices are very visually appealing. i think the sprint hero, samsung moment, moto cliq, LGs first android, samsung glaxy and lite version all look ugly.
and i like some of the apps apple have. i just want to see a completed multiplayer fps on android.

WM is following iPhone and Android is creating a new market. iPhone is too heavy with the iTune and paid apps as well.
Love my Android G2. Open platform is what we need

I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?

The reasoning is simple... pride. And money.
Android isn't just something that is *there to use*. Many of us have a lot of time invested in the platform and it not only feels good for it to be successful, it is also financially rewarding. i-phony is right now the most recognizable mobile phone, so it is naturally the target to BEAT.
chefgon said:
I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I'm talking about the pearl, curve and curve 2. well, I really like those keyboards, just my opinion. I never had any problems using them. Microsoft/Danger abandoned project pink (supposed to be the new danger os) sidekicks are rumored to be phased out anyway. Also with the major data outage, they have no access to their contacts, t-mail and calender for almost a month now, a lot of those customers I'm sure will move to Android.
and until corporate and business owners start handing out Google phones instead of blackberrys, RIM does have one up over Android

So long Leo

If you are the kind of person who gets emotionally attached to the gadgets you buy, please stop reading this post.
I'm not trying to start an inflamed discussion about which is the best device or manufacturer.
I’m not an Apple fan, in fact, I hate being “Apple locked” and that’s one of the main reasons I’ve bought the Leo after owning an Eten x500, a Kaiser, a Blackstone and finally, an iPhone 3GS.
I could go over and over describing the differences and the pros and cons of each device but I won’t. I’ll just try to tell you guys a few things we don’t have to accept.
We don’t have to accept …
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
a Gigahert processor which can’t smoothly scroll a web page. I know it’s probably due to bad Opera coding but… have you ever scrolled an iPhone Safari?
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
I could go on but there is something I realized that made me feel really hopeless (yes, I would really like to like a Windows phone). While HTC (and other manufacturers) keeps on launching device after device in a short time frame and thus creating new bugs and issues to deal with, Apple keeps on improving its one and only iPhone OS, for its one iPhone device (ok, different versions but very similar) which keeps getting better and better.
While iPhone developers have to deal with interface and compatibility issues for 3 very similar devices, a Windows Mobile developer has to deal with hundreds of them, some very poorly designed and a few very good (like Leo) but in the end, there is no way to develop a very good app for so many devices without a huge effort (and cost). Also, developing an App exclusively for one Windows phone wouldn’t be cost effective as a single model doesn’t represent a large enough consumer market.
Apple, with the iPhone, didn’t create a device as we are used to. Instead, they created a product with a long roadmap, mature SDK, sufficient market share, providing the necessary ecosystem for developers all around the world to make it even better.
It won’t be possible for any manufacturer, using any OS, to compete with such a mature product if they don’t realize it’s not a device we need. It’s a product.
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)

fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
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Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.

Xeon said:
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
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Click to collapse
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...

fmcastro said:
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some bugs are bearable.. I had too many with all my previous XDA/HTC phones. But for such basic bugs to be found, the device primary tasks ( phone calls / SMS ) should never be affected because it makes the device useless...

fmcastro said:
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
fmcastro said:
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
fmcastro said:
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
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Click to collapse
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?

aussiebum said:
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Humm... not exactly. Most people here at XDA were trying to switch from an oficial ROM to another. That said, we're talking about official languages. I was trying to flash a WWE ROM on a french device for example. The HTC excuse for this terrible language mess is, of course, microsoft: "Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions put in place by Microsoft, it is not legally possible for us the change the language of a device once it has been loaded" - Quoted from an HTC support email I received.
aussiebum said:
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
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Do you realise it shouldn't matter whose fault it is? It's a faulty device sold by HTC, period. I don't feel any better knowing it's an OS fault.
aussiebum said:
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
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I know but I think it's a bit more complicated as I said on the original post. Besides the laziness, WM developers face a too heterogeneous ecossystem that makes things really harder. "Ok, I've finished my app, now I just have to port it to 640x480, 480x640, 480x800, 800x480, 320x200, and who knows what else, despite the fact that standard WM UIs are really crap so every developer has to start from scratch if they want to make something look good. In short, only a few very brave souls will be capable of that.
aussiebum said:
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Android is not that good also. It seems like a better OS than WM but when it comes to user experience and, most important, a consistent user experience across all apps, it fails for the same reason WM fails. Lack of a product design and roadmap. It's just trying desperately to be installed on as most devices as it can.
Regards

And yet, the reasons people still use Winmo/Android is because the Iphone OS has serious deficiencies in some areas.
There is no perfect phone....all we can do is make the best of each OS.

Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.

Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.

I owned iphone 3gs...
I read all you've been writing and i, as former iphone 3gs user, must say that everything you say is corect but... why don't you say to all of us why you gave up your iphone... or why you really hating go back to itunes... and of course why in the close future you'll give up again, and sell the iphone???
The answer, real answer is that with iPhone you have everything right in place as you say but there is no fun... no joy... like trying to have the best sex but not in the mood... if know what i mean...
I had moments when i pulled out my iphone, from my pocket, and i wanted to play arround with it and...come on, really boring!!!
Iphone is the best in terms of everyday use, but if wm 7 will get better in terms of use it's going to be a strong iphone killer!!!
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
By the way...
No OS can have better handle of e-mail attachments than wm... for sure!!!
I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR SELLING IPHONE OVER HTC HD2!!!
Cheers!

jimbo29 said:
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for perfectly expressing my thoughts

Toss3 said:
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
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Click to collapse
I must say i have had an iphone 3g and i'm more happy with my HTC HD2. One of the reasons is because i simply think you pay way to much for the piece of hardware itself still no 5mpx camera while 8 is almost normal and 12 is high end. The new gs is worth more the money tough but the camera keeps me off and i kept hearing a annoying resonance while calling and the software isn't perfect as well and not that stable after a few days plus the battery life of the HTC HD2 is better as my iphone 3g and way better as the 3gs.
I like the default windows mobile software HTC Sense is annoying, camera flip, weather animations can't be turned off. Emails why show the email in the way it is shown now? i just rather had opened the whole email app so i can view the emails like your supposed to and not like a letter.
While calling you have to slide to get the extra options, why? there is a hang up button on screen wich you can press so why not the other buttons?
HTC tried to make a nice looking skin but not a functional one.
I use the default titanium skin with some modifications like a task manager added to the options and msn and the camera. But the apps for calling and the communications manager work great.
About windows mobile 7:
Windows mobile can be great. But i still have the idea they haven't learned from their mistakes. Look at the buttons a phone is supposed to have according to microsoft for windows mobile 7. a Pickup, a home, a start, a back and a hang up button. Why so many? Home and start could be one, 1 press to go home another to go to start and press again to go home again, simple and effective. Why a back button? when would you use that? Press the home button and your back in the home screen and applications usually have their own back button when needed. So pick-up home and hang-up would have been enough. Since Microsoft asks for these buttons they still think to complicated and i bet windows 7 will to complicated as well all though it will be more complete compared to 6.x.
But i love how i can change things to the user interface and multitasking is great, the iphone can't do that by default and that really sucks. And backgrounder that does make it possible, makes the phone more unstable as a windows mobile one. It is stupid windows mobile doesn't use it's greatest advantage for marketing and battling the iphone with it, this is where windows mobile could stand out with.
I'm writing this from my macbook on os x snow leopard and even i still prefer my windows mobile HTC HD2.

Windows Mobile 7 will simply use CE7 Kernel, compiled for new ARM CPUs and will use the new ARM instructions.
Now we're running Windows Mobile 6.5 that runs on CE5.2 kernel.
It's like running Windows98 on a Phenom X4 quadcore CPU
Even on other MSM chipsets that has got an ARM11 CPU, that potential isn't seen because of that.
When WM7 will be released, we'll see our device performance unleashed

I've had my HD2 for a week now and I must say I'm more than pleased with it. I did consider the iPhone as an option, but as I want to connect my phone to my Exchange Server then it was a no brainer to opt for a Windows Phone and the hardware specs of the HD2 are way above the iPhone. A big thing that put me off the iPhone was it's reliance upon iTunes to synchronise my calendar & contacts - it's dreadfully buggy toy software and I don't want a music application on my work PC.
If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as "the users' fault".
The emergence of open source Android phones whill hopefully spur the mainstream smartphone OS writers to concentrate their efforts on developing their own platforms. It's true to say that Microsoft haven't trerated their Windows OS as a mainstream product and there's still too much legacy code in 6.5, but it's still a decent OS for its intended purpose Hopefully that will be addressed in Version 7 which looks likely to be available to HD2 users as an (free?) upgrade. There's masses of quality third-party apps avaiable to maximise its smartphone potential for just about all users,.
There isn't a perfect smartphone out there and as we demand ever more features of them I doubt if there is likely to be in the forseable future, but the nice thing about the Windows Phone OS is that it is eminently hackable.

HD2 Simply Put...
Depth & Customization!

iphone got it right???
I remember hearing complaints about iphone for at least the first year, and as omneity says:
"If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as 'the users' fault' ".
fmcastro said:
We don’t have to accept …
5. a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
p.s. I am a former Apple user. Iphone is more of Jobs' controlled user experience.
I couldn't stand it.
I find it ironic that Apple started out supporting open source while Gates worked hard at controlling users choice.
Now it is the reverse.

New things r always trapped in some trouble, and that's why i have paid close attention to leo, but i didn't buy it! im just waiting for a staid one.

To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.

Teneka_Khan said:
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I FULLY agree with you ; I also have a iphone 3G 16 GB but is now in the drawer collecting dust. As saying goes, One man's meat is another man poison . No point debating about how good/bad the HD2 and iPhone and any other PDA. It will never end
As far as I am concerned , the HD2 is my choice now vs iPhone

gavinfabl said:
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I totally agree...and that's just what i've now done

Windows7 looks and sounds overhyped

i know im not the only one that thinks this....i love new features and upgrades just as much as anyone but it seems the goal of windows 7 is to take away the customization experience of windows and bring consumers closer with microsoft then closer 2 their device. No flash, No skins, limited apps, and lets be honest who wants a device that looks exactly the same as another person device, u could take a million hd2 and none will look exactly like mines

jbanga86 said:
i know im not the only one that thinks this....i love new features and upgrades just as much as anyone but it seems the goal of windows 7 is to take away the customization experience of windows and bring consumers closer with microsoft then closer 2 their device. No flash, No skins, limited apps, and lets be honest who wants a device that looks exactly the same as another person device, u could take a million hd2 and none will look exactly like mines
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say save these comments till after it comes out and you actually use it.
And it's Windows Phone 7 Series, not Windows 7.
dwizzy130

anything short of 5 pages and this thread will be a failure!

dwizzy130 said:
I say save these comments till after it comes out and you actually use it.
And it's Windows Phone 7 Series, not Windows 7.
dwizzy130
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd agree if it was for ALL comments on the awesomeness OR failure of WP7s.

lol all im saying is if we wanted a zune we would buy a zune!
seriously ever since the thing came out they been talking about
making it a phone and now this is new news?
psht! they have a few ideas on point though like the whole
finger friendly thing, but to me its like buying a new house
with thin walls or move into a comfy old brick home
yeah the lighting fixtures is up to date but what about the foundation

I love the new interface. I love the accent that is being layed on the text. From what i've seen it's like browsing through a magazine. Well thought, because in the end, mostly it's text with what you're dealing with on this type of devices.
No really, i'm very thrilled about the new design. And with the new silverlight based development framework I think that we can expect more useful applications that are focussed on what they are supposed to do and less on the user interface.

The UI is awesome. Other than that, it's just an iPhone copy with the same bad policies, like censorship and no multitasking, no file system access etc.

seed_al said:
The UI is awesome. Other than that, it's just an iPhone copy with the same bad policies, like censorship and no multitasking, no file system access etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7S, No cutomizability, locked eco system, no multi tasking.
Dont u think it defeats the purpose of WinMO.
I hope it will be a big failure. The reason i got WinMO instead of anything else is because of the power of freedom it has. WP7S killed that.
and yes, its just as hyped up as iphone before it was release. NOthing more. Its not revolutionary, its just pretty with no brain.
The start or home screen may look pretty, but its functionless. U have to scroll a lot to see info. I think the novelty will wear off faster then the iphone.

Good post, Frostlance, very good post... it's sad how they destroyed everything good about Windows Mobile. I'm not at all interested in a stupid locked down system.

seed_al said:
Good post, Frostlance, very good post... it's sad how they destroyed everything good about Windows Mobile. I'm not at all interested in a stupid locked down system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And not only that, they way they made WP7S Backwards incompatible also means MS just killed WinMO6.5 and previous versions.
Developers are abandoning WinMO 6.5 1 by 1, started with adobe , then Skype, and many more to come.
We were waiting for Flash 10.1 anxiously, seeing the beta version test on OUR HD2, but in the end, they discontinued their support for WinMO.
As Steve Ballmer Said " OS are nothing without Developers, Developers Developers , (he goes on saying developers many2 times)
And that is the fate of WinMO 6.5. With no Developer support, Our BELOVED OS, is becoming NOthing.
To tell you the truth,ive been a loyal WinMO user since 2000. I relied heavily on its apps (esp medical applications,helps me a lot with my work as a doctor and manage my patients data). Now ive heard from a friend in skyscape,a major medical apps developer for WinMO, that they will also discontinue support for WinMO. Now this really saddens me really.
For a phone(expensive phone in fact) which i bought just 2 months ago, will no longer provide me new apps, new updates to my medical apps, no flash (A BIG WASTE , With our huge gorgeous screen,we cant even load flash content!).
I envy those using android, updating their OS constantly, and getting apps like google earth,goggle and etc which we were once promised to be given,now all left is a dream.
MS has killed our beloved WinMO. It is a sad news for all of us. WP7S is more like a curse then a blessing.

I'd rather buy an iPhone than any WP7S device.
Both are locked down crap systems without multitasking from my POV.

Espentf said:
I'd rather buy an iPhone than any WP7S device.
Both are locked down crap systems without multitasking from my POV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But WP7S has better hardware and a better UI. So, IF you buy a locked down crap system, you really should get a WP7S phone.
But of course, you shouldn't buy a locked down crap system.

seed_al said:
But WP7S has better hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do we know enough about the iPhone 4 to be sure that its hardware will be inferior to WP7S phones? We'll be about half way between that and its replacement when WP7 starts to get going.

Shasarak said:
Do we know enough about the iPhone 4 to be sure that its hardware will be inferior to WP7S phones? We'll be about half way between that and its replacement when WP7 starts to get going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We know nothing about iPhone 4, but Apple's iPhone hardware has ALWAYS been at least half a year behind HTC's. I don't expect that to change.
iPhone 4 would need a WVGA display, a 1GHz processor, 448MB RAM, a five megapixel camera with dual LED flash, much much better materials... in order to be "only" half a year behind again. In other words: No way. They're not going to catch up anytime soon.

seed_al said:
We know nothing about iPhone 4, but Apple's iPhone hardware has ALWAYS been at least half a year behind HTC's. I don't expect that to change.
iPhone 4 would need a WVGA display, a 1GHz processor, 448MB RAM, a five megapixel camera with dual LED flash, much much better materials... in order to be "only" half a year behind again. In other words: No way. They're not going to catch up anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The strange thing is that if the WP7 is really a closed down system without multitasking it would not need such advanced hardware for it. The need of so much memory and processor power is precisely because of the multitasking when a user can run several applications simultaneously. Otherwise you can have a good user experience with much less memory and processor power like in case of the iPhone.

This thread will be better if it has a poll on it.
I think it is hyped too. I really prefer the HTC interface and customization freedom of the HD2 against the new design of windows mobile 7. I have my device so customized that I can access every feature with a few clicks (AE button plus and multiple button press) I dont see that coming soon in WM7, you need to scroll a lot with your finger to actually go anywhere. And what botters me more is that it looks like "multimedia oriented" and not "bussisness" oriented.
If they close the platform like Apple they will loose al the support of the comunity. I really think WebOs look more interesting as a new modern platform (but they still lack variety of applications)
If there is no oficial WM7 update to the HD2, I really dont care. (we know the chef here will be realising it and even with a newer rom)

What not being said may be the most revealing.
Other than a few picture and limited stories from just a few people (MS insiders) what do we really know about WM7?
With all the stories about what WM7 cannot do, you start to wonder if there is something that we are not being told about the new OS.
For instance:
* MS Voice Command has not had any real updates for a number of years. Is there a (much improved) new version in WM7?
* Wireless/Blue tooth set up? (better setup etc?)
* Haptic interface,
* camera and other elements used in a more interactive way for interface?
* New/updated/Improved version of transcriber?
Or is MS really just going to bring out a dumb version of Windows Mobile, for the dummys, and to more directly compete with iPhone, and continue the development of the OS version (6.5) they already have for the business users, and the more adventurous?
We still remember XP/Vista don't we, lets hope MS learn't something!

No option for both? I think bits are great and bits are over hyped.

1) Maybe it´s going to be the same story as with Win Vista: faulty, crappy, resource-hungry, no benefits. Good for the basic user that only surfs with IE, listens to music, watches videos, e-mails and uploads videos on YouTube
2) NO software is uncrackable ! Wonder what the experts here on XDA will do with WM7 ! When I received my HD2 in November it wasn´t much more than my Touch HD, a little bit faster though. Now with all the geniousses here in this forum it is a rocket of a PDA that spared me the investment into a Sony Vaio P
3) I eagerly wait for the HD3 at the end of the year, wait this time some months ´till I buy it. First I will see what the leading programmers here will do with it, then buy it and flash it with a cooked ROM from this forum. And maybe this cooked ROM will be rebased on WM6.5.x or a hacked WM7, able of multitasking.
4) When I will buy HD3 (or whatever it will be called) I buy the hardware (1,5 GHz Qualcomm, ROM/RAM etc.) and I want it to be FAST. Like with Win Vista the hardware will be eaten up by WM7-software giving no speed advantage. Like with my Sony Vaio TT92 which is equipped with WinXP and which is much faster than most of the desktop-PCs for MY use of the Vaio (no gaming, prof. medical work) I will rely on the experts here to cook a ROM that´s faster than lightning for the APPS, ´cause I don´t care if the basic software is WM6.5.x or WM7, TF3D, HTCSense or what, I want my preferred apps to run fast and smooth w/o hangup.
Conclusion: trust the people here, THEY will make the best outa the new HARDWARE, not HTC, not Microsoft ..........

gm_fisher said:
Or is MS really just going to bring out a dumb version of Windows Mobile, for the dummys, and to more directly compete with iPhone, and continue the development of the OS version (6.5) they already have for the business users, and the more adventurous?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid that's exactly what they are doing. Everyone - including MS - is green with envy for the zillion$$$ Apple are making with teenagers and "wanna-look-cool" adults who spend their time on social networks or mms-ing pictures. Little brains, fat wallets. No surprise manufacturers and carriers LOVE them and would do ANYTHING to please them.
MS had a decision to make: continue to fight on two fields (business and dummies) and continue losing to RIM on the former and to Apple on the latter? Or instead concentrate on one, playing the cards (like hardware) where the competition has always been behind?
WPS7 is just that.
Do I like it? Hell, no.
Would I have done the same thing had I been in Steve Ballmer's shoes? Probably yes.
Will their strategy succeed? Probably no. Unless Steve Jobs screws up big-time...
gm_fisher said:
We still remember XP/Vista don't we, lets hope MS learn't something!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at Win7, I think they learnt that crappy-buggy OS's should never ever make their way into the market. However keeping looking at Win7 on other PC's makes me wish I will still have the option for XP when my laptop replacement is due in June.
I don't think MS will be stupid enough to allow WPS7 to be crappy-buggy like Vista, but most likely WPS7 will be as alienating to business users as Win7 is, leaving them in fact with two choices:
a) BlackBerry (for most)
b) Android (for power users)
Actually there is a third one for the (very few) adventurous: cooked WinMo ROMs.