Database Users

depressed after playing with a sidekick 3...

after playing with the sidekick 3 (i am testing one of our store demos), i can't help but to feel depressed. i look at my 8125 with a soft resentment that wasn't there before... angry at how she's sluggish, not nearly as zippity zoom fly as the sidekick 3, angry at how i have tried to use several chat programs (veri, im+, agile, oz) on her but yet, nothing's nearly as efficient and smooth as the sk3, or even sk2 for that matter.
i love my 8125 for all that she is, a huge bloated wm5 machine that can play great videos and can open up my excel documents... but hate her for sucking at everything else including being a phone. at least the sk3 is zippier, faster, and all around a much better phone than the wizard will or could ever be.
these are just my two cents. i will continue to use both, but eventually i will end up wearing my spandex-pleather tights that will only allow me to carry one phone, and then, i won't know which to choose...

theorist said:
but eventually i will end up wearing my spandex-pleather tights that will only allow me to carry one phone, and then, i won't know which to choose...
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Click to collapse
um...tmi.
:?

http://www.liquidgeneration.com/content/showMeDaContent.aspx?cid=1292
I have to agree at least with the sentiment that although HTC are great at pushing Win Mobile along, hardware innovation is limited. However, they've got most of the market already, so pressure on innovation is limited. Other OEMs might innovate, but still, the SideKick is a brand, not just hardware for a platform, so they can afford to box you in to a limited, but very good platform. However, we buy chunky phones, clunky phones, even crap phones, because we want the freedom to do more, as you say.
However, in a generation or few, we should be happy with better hardware. However, it's only 3rd party products like Thumb Magic etc that are really going to make the WinMob platforms more user friendly. MS can't afford to dilute its UI.
V

The sidekick can't synch up with outlook though and download corporate e-mail like the Wizard. That is a big thing.

how about all other features man...
u can install all those .cab files and customize ur wizard.. i m not sure if we can do this in sk2/3
having a wifi is too a gr8 thng. i m not facing any issues with my wizard as a phone. for most of the issues we can find the work arounds and tweaks in this forum. this forum rocks..
hope u will like the wizard as u start playing with it...

pmuller said:
The sidekick can't synch up with outlook though and download corporate e-mail like the Wizard. That is a big thing.
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Click to collapse
heya. it can sync up with outlooks contacts and todo through their own program that comes with it.

Alternative views http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/07/13/sidekick_3_the_good_bad_and_ug.html

But...it runs on JAVA :?

Speed also an issue for ex palm OS users
The Wizard device pretty much sucks when it comes to speed. I have found that leaving your programs running almost always solves the problem of slow loading apps. I barely overclock my device (Only set to 204). The latest rom 2.3 by summiter is also a godsend. Faster resets and UI makes this rom a definite upgrade requirement for anyone with an original cingular rom device. the only wish I have is that the device have more program memory so I can leave more items running. Also active sync brings this device to a stand still. The palm OS devices are lightning fast compared to this device. The only benefits the WM5 device has is a better web browser and built in Wifi. Everyone on the forums mentions multitasking but the majority of palm os programs save their current state when switching between apps so its not a real issue.

theorist said:
pmuller said:
The sidekick can't synch up with outlook though and download corporate e-mail like the Wizard. That is a big thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heya. it can sync up with outlooks contacts and todo through their own program that comes with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but it will never allow me to edit/delete/send e-mails from my outlook server the way that a windows mobile device does. even the blackberry doesn't do it quite as well wirelessly.

I ordered a sidekick 3 the day it was avaliable to me and I got it. I played around on it for a while, and i noticed that it was not that much different than my sidekick 2. just added faster internet, better camera, and MP3 player.
right after I ordered it... i was looking on some Sidekick 3 forums and i noticed people comparing it to the wizard. (which i am going to buy in a couple days).
well I was researching both of the phones... the wizard has pretty much every feature that the Sidekick 3 has, and the sidekick 3 has far far far fewer features than the MDA (HTC Wizard).
Anyway, the little while I was playing with the sidekick 3... it just wasn't worth all that money... seriously, i would want at lease Zoom in the camera... and it isn't a video camera, or anything. MDA is where it is at.

The 8125 is truely the best phone I have ever owned... however I have owned a Sidekick 2 and it was an amazing data device - as a phone, it sucked.
Keyboard on SK2 ... awesome!!!
Keyboard on Treo 650... pretty darn good.
Keyboard on 8125, inconvienent... I find myself typing with the stylus and on-screen keyboard more then I flip it out.
I love my 8125 a lot, but IMHO, it's not the best for typing... plus camera is a major dissapointment.

no offence but to me sidekicks are gay ass little phones. nothing wrong with being gay but having a phone with limited software capabilities is so dumb i don't know what to add. a phone should be universal add and remove, hack and the list continues .................sidekick = 70% & wizard =90%. the .9% being microsoft sucks and HTC's hardware kinda sucks.

I have nothing against Sidekicks. Danger and T-Mobile are addressing a specific portion of the market dead-on with this phone. Sidekicks are sort of fashion statements, for those who want a phone just because Paris or Britney have one. Add to it the my.t-mobile.com stuff for backups, and it makes that market segment very happy. Kudos to Danger and T-mobile for addressing that part of the customer base.
For the limited, non-upgradable, subset of features it has compared to a WM5 device, The SK3 does them well. Danger also put a good amount of effort into making the phone as idiot-proof as possible. For this market segment, ease of use is everything.
I am glad that T-Mobile has very separate phones for the two market segments, because it would plain suck if they dumbed-down a MDA or SDA to a device that celebrity wannabees stick rhinestones and faceted crystals on.
In any case, the Sidekick line isn't a threat to devices like what HTC, Palm, HP, or RIM make. In fact, use of one likely will end up steering users to WM5 phones when they outgrow the Sidekick's fixed and limited capabilities.

GTASouthPark said:
I ordered a sidekick 3 the day it was avaliable to me and I got it. I played around on it for a while, and i noticed that it was not that much different than my sidekick 2. just added faster internet, better camera, and MP3 player.
right after I ordered it... i was looking on some Sidekick 3 forums and i noticed people comparing it to the wizard. (which i am going to buy in a couple days).
well I was researching both of the phones... the wizard has pretty much every feature that the Sidekick 3 has, and the sidekick 3 has far far far fewer features than the MDA (HTC Wizard).
Anyway, the little while I was playing with the sidekick 3... it just wasn't worth all that money... seriously, i would want at lease Zoom in the camera... and it isn't a video camera, or anything. MDA is where it is at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen.

It could be worse, you might have an iPhone

Here is a list of features for the iPhone,
* The mobile version of OS X or whatever it is the iPhone runs takes up 700MB
* There's no way to cut, copy, or paste text!
* No A2DP support.
* Sorry, music can't be used as a ringtone
* On a PC the iPhone syncs with Outlook for calendars AND addresses
* It supports Exchange 'in some capacity'
* Document file reading -- but not editing -- for PDF, Word, and Excel (only).
* Adobe Flash support is officially out. It's just not in the browser.
* No kind of embedded video support.
* It will take snaps, but won't record video.
* Oh, and no MMS.
* No voice dialing, either.
* Contact groups can't be emailed as contact lists.
* Apple says between 300-400 charges the iPhone will lose battery capacity -- you'll send it in and get the cell replaced for a fee.
* Apple will be rolling out periodic updates
* Voice quality is said to be good -- not great.
Aren't you glad you bought an Athena not an iPhone?
I look forward to laughing at iPhone owners. Now I have nothing against apple, but this thing costs a bomb and has half the features.
Athena owner meets iPhone owner,
"hey, thats a pretty phone. Can you do blah with it?"
"No the iPhone wont do blah. Ooh, thats a huge 5"screen you've got, wow! I wish my iPhone could do that! AND that, and that! Hold on, battery is dead. No I cant replace it, no spare. I have to post it back to apple now."

I think you might have missed out:
"Wow a touchflow screen - shame the resolution is so low....."

It could be worse
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Click to collapse
Absolutely. And it would be hard to make the Athena better...
Of course, there's always something that could have been better, but compared to other phones or the iPhone, the Athena is miles ahead.

Moskus said:
Absolutely. And it would be hard to make the Athena better...
Of course, there's always something that could have been better, but compared to other phones or the iPhone, the Athena is miles ahead.
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Click to collapse
And only twice as expensive, too...
Give the Athena OS and hardware the sort of R&D Apple put into making their stuff work - but instead of cutting back on what it does, make it ALL work properly

Its an interesting first attempt, but they've got a fair way to go before it becomes a 'smart' device, rather than just a sexy phone. No 3G, unable to update OTA from Itunes, a fairly 'closed' platform (until people defeat that ) puts me off this 1st generation phone. I read today of rumors that 3G will be fixed for the European Release (via Yodafone), but the extended contract lifetimes with Mobile providers is very offputting.
I'm gonna wait till gen2 or even gen3 to see if the phone becomes 'smart' enough to warrant the screen size and how it pans out with the apple-chefs or the true apple upgrades. And I've never bought into the apple form over function that they've adopted since imac days.

Im afraid a stylish device with eye candy transition effects, just doesn't justify the large costs, restrictions and appaling array of non supported features for me.
I blame Microsoft and the manufactuers who make windows Mobile devices for their distinct lack of advertising, the cost of which is an array of people happy to call this the "god phone" despite much better and affordable and vastly less restricted technology being out there. With the exception of its multitouch interface its comparatively using the technology specs of a Windows 2003SE device.
To Apples credit though millions of people getting ready to sign up for two years to get one of these and tolerate an "activation fee" so I don't know what category to give them the thumbs up in, but they have obviously done something right.
Although I am still shocked that such a media driven device lacks the capacity to set mp3 ringtones, that should be on the top of apples first update to fix.

I think us geeks tend to forget that most people don't care of what is going on behind the eye candy. They want to use a stylish and easy-to-use phone.
For instance, go and show your parents, or any people in their forties-fifties who are not technology freaks, the iPhone and a Windows Mobile device, let them "play" with it for their use (i.e., place and receive calls, and maybe some SMS), and in the end ask them to choose one of the devices. I can already guess their choice....
In my opinion most of use are too much technology-centered, and find it hard to believe that Apple tries to center the device on its users...
Why did the first iPod have such a great success, when many competitors offered a screen for viewing videos, an FM tuner and voice recording for a lesser price?
Just my two cents (and anyway this is an eternal debate, so please don't start the usual flame war )
Silviu

RichardKAthena said:
And only twice as expensive, too...
Give the Athena OS and hardware the sort of R&D Apple put into making their stuff work - but instead of cutting back on what it does, make it ALL work properly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it's twice as expensive, but you should compare the iPhone to the HTC Hermes or the new HTC Kaiser.
Does iPhone support UMTS/HSDPA? Nope
Does iPhone support Exchange/Push Email? Nope
Does iPhone support any Remote Desktop apps? Nope
Does iPhone support user-created apps? Nope
Does iPhone support any 3. party software at all? Nope (at least not yet)
Can I then even use this phone? Nope...

Moskus said:
Yes it's twice as expensive, but you should compare the iPhone to the HTC Hermes or the new HTC Kaiser.
Does iPhone support UMTS/HSDPA? Nope
Does iPhone support Exchange/Push Email? Nope
Does iPhone support any Remote Desktop apps? Nope
Does iPhone support user-created apps? Nope
Does iPhone support any 3. party software at all? Nope (at least not yet)
Can I then even use this phone? Nope...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, in fact, you want a mobile computer, not a mobile telephone
There's a very big clue in the name - iPhone. phone. Not iReallytinycomputerthatevenpeoplethatdon'tlikeAppleseemobsessedwithbecausedeepdowntheyknowApple'scomputershavethebestuserexperienceandtheyallwantitinapocketsizeddevice.
Sure, Apple could make a device like the Athena. And like the Athena, it would cost more than a MacBook, and like most UMPCs, it would sell in tiny amounts compared to the easy to engineer, wide-market appeal MacBook.

RichardKAthena said:
So, in fact, you want a mobile computer, not a mobile telephone
There's a very big clue in the name - iPhone. phone. Not iReallytinycomputerthatevenpeoplethatdon'tlikeAppleseemobsessedwithbecausedeepdowntheyknowApple'scomputershavethebestuserexperienceandtheyallwantitinapocketsizeddevice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I get along with my other devices as the Qtek 9100, HTC TyTN, S620 and MTeoR.
The Pocket PCs support most of the points I specified, and the smartphones does at least support Push Email and 3. party software.
So, to me and I guess other users that likes how Smartphones powered by either Windows Mobile or Symbian, the iPhone won't do it. If you're a "standard users" that actually like those "simple" phones from Nokia or Sony Ericsson, the iPhone might suit you.

Digital.Diablo said:
Its an interesting first attempt, but they've got a fair way to go before it becomes a 'smart' device, rather than just a sexy phone. No 3G, unable to update OTA from Itunes, a fairly 'closed' platform (until people defeat that ) puts me off this 1st generation phone. I read today of rumors that 3G will be fixed for the European Release (via Yodafone), but the extended contract lifetimes with Mobile providers is very offputting.
I'm gonna wait till gen2 or even gen3 to see if the phone becomes 'smart' enough to warrant the screen size and how it pans out with the apple-chefs or the true apple upgrades. And I've never bought into the apple form over function that they've adopted since imac days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple stuff never gets good until third generation.
Apple II - 4K-16K typical, upper case only.
Apple II Plus - 48K, shift-key mod...
Apple //e - lower case, better keyboard, 128K with extended 80 column card.
Macintosh - 128K RAM, 400K floppy - essentially useless.
Macintosh 512K/e - 400 or 800K floppy, still not upgradeable at all.
Macintosh Plus - 1-4Mb via SIMM expansion, 800K Floppy, SCSI.
iMac - first gen, I'd argue, was the 233MHz Bondi range. Unreliable and slow.
Then we got the SE types and colours. They were better.
And then I consider the eMac to be the true 3rd gen iMac - G4, flat CRT - and they were pretty good. I used one as my main office machine for a couple of years, but I've now got a 24" Intel iMac which is near silent and has a beautiful screen for the money. (My G5 runs dual 20" cinema displays).
iPod has been a little different, but I think the 3rd gen iPod got it right - I don't like the click wheel as much as the scroll wheel and 4 button layout. Harder to use in the car and not illuminated.
I really hope Vodafone don't get the iPhone deal. Their current data plans are useless.

Moskus said:
Well I get along with my other devices as the Qtek 9100, HTC TyTN, S620 and MTeoR.
The Pocket PCs support most of the points I specified, and the smartphones does at least support Push Email and 3. party software.
So, to me and I guess other users that likes how Smartphones powered by either Windows Mobile or Symbian, the iPhone won't do it. If you're a "standard users" that actually like those "simple" phones from Nokia or Sony Ericsson, the iPhone might suit you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bingo! That's precisely the market Jobs wants. This is "simple phone" with balls, not smartphone. This is "SE Walkman phone" with a UI that doesn't make you want to smash the handset and enough storage to actually hold some music out of the box.
Look at my signature. What do I use? I choose to use WM devices and have done for a decade; I was using smartphones whilst most of the people on here were still in nappies figuratively speaking (I used to use a lashup of datacard and Windows CE handheld, then the Nokia 9000 came out). I love these devices; my Ameo is nicknamed "The Guide" because it really is like the Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy - connected to the sub-ether net, access to all the information you can imagine, entertaining, communicative - it's a great device.
iPhone doesn't suit me. But I'm fully aware of the market that it is aiming for and I think that constantly harping on about how it isn't a good competitor to WM devices, or lacks x features, is really silly; if the iPhone doesn't do what you want, don't buy one, especially if an existing product does do what you want. It really does seem to be that everyone WANTS an iPhone, but can't justify it and feels the need to complain
Which for Apple, is fantastic. OMGWANT! is exactly what they want people to do with their products, and that people feel compelled to post about what it doesn't have and why it is no good for them is a clear indication that they really wish it DID do all these things, so they could have one.
I think I own about 100 computers currently and 5 or 6 phones. If I want iPhone I'll have one anyway, but since it's only got 8GB, it won't replace my 80GB iPod as a music player - it'd be a whole extra device with a frustrating inability to cart all my music, thus ensuring I have to choose some to keep on it, and with no reason to use it instead of my Ameo.
And that's just fine by me, because the Ameo, flawed as it is, is still pretty damn good.

I'm intrigued to see how the OMGIWO (Oh my Gawd, I want one) effect lasts with iphone. Initially when the pod launched, it had this effect, but these days, every joe and his mate's got one, so there's nothing interesting to see when you get it out in public.
However, I suspect my Ameo will be pulling the crowds for a couple of years to come! Only today did I have a fella asking me all about it, and when I went through the spec's he nearly wet himself. HTC/T-mobile can probably chalk up another sale!

Digital.Diablo said:
I'm intrigued to see how the OMGIWO (Oh my Gawd, I want one) effect lasts with iphone. Initially when the pod launched, it had this effect, but these days, every joe and his mate's got one, so there's nothing interesting to see when you get it out in public.
However, I suspect my Ameo will be pulling the crowds for a couple of years to come! Only today did I have a fella asking me all about it, and when I went through the spec's he nearly wet himself. HTC/T-mobile can probably chalk up another sale!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I got my Ameo, I ended up with my girlfriend buying one, two mates getting them, and about four more wanting them but not having the cash/being stuck on contract.
iPods are still good, but they're a commodity device now. I replace mine every year as long as there is a significant/useful upgrade; I pass the old one on to someone, though my 20GB one needed a new battery (and was then killed by a third-party USB/Firewire charging lead that also blew the Firewire bus on my G5 >_<)
Phones always attract more attention as a lekking device (look it up ). iPhone will do well for that, I think, and the tactile user interface will go a long way.

RichardKAthena said:
lekking
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Click to collapse
A lek is a gathering of males, of certain animal species, for the purposes of competitive mating display.
Sounds like Scottish version of what we say (In Jest) "Right, lets all get our c..ks out and start waving them around." Your's is more 'polite' though.
The one thing that the WM5 needs is better out of the box skins. I've installed a black one (ying/yang I think) from this forum and it pee's all over the out of the box ones from MicroT-Mobilesoft. I'm not buying into the hype I'm afraid. And I think there does need to be a better explanation of the iphone NOT being a PDA/smartphone, just a smart-looking phone. Just out of interest, am I correct in remembering that my Ex's pink ipod-mini had a basic personal organiser function - A calendar with reminders?

I agree with much of what has been said - the Ifyyphone is aimed at a different market. Therefore...
Moskus said:
Does iPhone support Exchange/Push Email? Nope
Does iPhone support any Remote Desktop apps? Nope
Does iPhone support user-created apps? Nope
Does iPhone support any 3. party software at all? Nope (at least not yet)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...these are all fine - an Iphoney doesn't care about these things
BUT
Moskus said:
Does iPhone support UMTS/HSDPA? Nope
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is unforgivable these days.

Digital.Diablo said:
A lek is a gathering of males, of certain animal species, for the purposes of competitive mating display.
Sounds like Scottish version of what we say (In Jest) "Right, lets all get our c..ks out and start waving them around." Your's is more 'polite' though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true, though - you see how people are with their mobiles. Showing them around, having the latest models, the best features. Sometimes the most bizarre models get to be desirable - that unremarkable thing Panasonic/someone else sold that was the "Beckham Phone" for example. The Ameo is one HELL of a lekking device, but it suffers the same problem as my car does - gotta explain it. If I wanted to pull 'birds' as my normal peer group goes for (filthy goffick type here, I'm afraid), then the RX8 doesn't get a look in compared to a Focus ST, because the ST is loud, familiar and known to be quick. The RX8 has a bloody Wankel FFS. Sure, when someone gets in it and you boot it, there's this look of comprehension that kicks in, but on the road, it's a vaguely flash, odd sounding car.
Can't use it to pull if you have to get nerdy. Unless you like nerdy girls. In which case, well, my gf bought herself an Ameo after seeing mine. Says it all, I think
(also, oddly enough, she's in Birmingham. I'm going to have to listen out for that phrase now )
The one thing that the WM5 needs is better out of the box skins. I've installed a black one (ying/yang I think) from this forum and it pee's all over the out of the box ones from MicroT-Mobilesoft. I'm not buying into the hype I'm afraid. And I think there does need to be a better explanation of the iphone NOT being a PDA/smartphone, just a smart-looking phone. Just out of interest, am I correct in remembering that my Ex's pink ipod-mini had a basic personal organiser function - A calendar with reminders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the messaging app (at least the one on the Ameo, as they're apparently different on other devices like the Treo 750w) needs a lot of work, and the preferences panels are horrid, they look like they were drawn in Visual Basic by an NC Computing Student. A bad one. But yes, better skins go a long way towards fixing the crude look and feel.
iPods-with-displays have address book and calendar synchronisation, no editing (I think, the key to the PDA paradigm), and of course read-only notes.

3G?
http://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/3466

As someone who works in the school system here in the US, I've used many Apple products over the years. One thing all of the Apple devices have in common that I have used is that they are too restrictive. They are all closed systems. I want to make choices, not have them made for me. I'm not some simple idiot that can't make my own decisions. This is the main reason I won't be buying an iPhone. Frankly I'm not that happy with Windows either (it's heading too much in this direction as well). I prefer Linux and I would like to see it show up on more phones.
There are some really nice things about the iPhone, but as long as Apple keeps being restrictive, I won't be using their products.

Pyrofer
Actually I don't care what you think, I have all the different devices that I wish, so its just another " mobile experience". And you don't have base to judge that (only specs to compare)
For me it's better have an Iphone that a lot of Windows Mobile Devices (most of them are EQUAL) I'm saying that because I have both...
It's very sad limited people without curiosity and criteria to evaluate other platforms, It just like Linux (opensource) people that ignore Microsoft innovation products, just like You do with Apple.
Thanks god I have money to spend in shinny new gadgets...

Latest News and picture of Shift ! No GPS and Phone for sure out the of Box !

Hi guys, there are more news on the HTC shift, it has been official presented on the 28th in Taiwan by HTC. This is the official retail package and it's 100% what you will get in retail store.
Here is a link for some picture: http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=224&t=508252&last=4825702
For those people who can't see the picture, see my attachment of how to show the picture.
My HTC contact was there and he has tested the device, i specific ask him to test on phone and gps function, he report back saying that there is 100% no phone and GPS inside the Shift.
I know a lot of people will say they seen photo of GPS or phone, but that me remind you this, this is the latest official retail version, all device before are prototype. Yes, i have also seen the picture on FCC website showing there is GPS inside, that's the reason I asked my friend to test it! And let me say this again, there will be no GPS or Phone out of the box.
Our hope will be for the developers here in XDA to crack the function to enable full windows mobile, phone, and GPS.
p.s. Another news i got from my friend, HTC is saying the SD slot will only support up to 2GB.

can you getem?
Hi Wu, how are you doing, just wondering like you got me my Dopod, can you get hold of a shift for me? Thanks Dude

faisal.husain said:
Hi Wu, how are you doing, just wondering like you got me my Dopod, can you get hold of a shift for me? Thanks Dude
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Faisal, i am fine thank you. I hope you are doing well too.
Yes i can get the Shift for you, it's currently on pre-order and the device will be available on the 4th of Feb. Price is a bit lower then anywhere else and you will get bonus with it such as GPS and extra battery....etc.
If you are interesting in getting one, please PM me and we can discuss more there !

Hmm.. i´m ordered a sample from our german distributor but now i´m thinking about to cancel the order. We thinking long time ago about a integration of the shift in our company network for our VIP customers. But without gps, without Mobile and without LAN (or can i install Windows over netboot over WLAN??) i should search better for a other solution. there is not really a innovation inside. maybe the better solution with same features is a Toshiba Portégé R400 Series laptop..
but we will see the next on cebit i hope. maybe a other manufactor. we support htc from scratch with their first devices. after over 7000 devices and the problems within it´s time to test a other manufacor i think. maybe asus, samsung

Pre-Order all gone
Please do not ask me any more for HTC Shift, all the 200 unit for pre-order is gone already, first shipment will be on the 4th of Feb, if there is any more stock available, i will let you all know asap.

joy.d said:
Hmm.. i´m ordered a sample from our german distributor but now i´m thinking about to cancel the order. We thinking long time ago about a integration of the shift in our company network for our VIP customers. But without gps, without Mobile and without LAN (or can i install Windows over netboot over WLAN??) i should search better for a other solution. there is not really a innovation inside. maybe the better solution with same features is a Toshiba Portégé R400 Series laptop..
but we will see the next on cebit i hope. maybe a other manufactor. we support htc from scratch with their first devices. after over 7000 devices and the problems within it´s time to test a other manufacor i think. maybe asus, samsung
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
weird comment .. I don't see any device being a half of what the Shift is ... and even without GPS, without Phone, without LAN and without full WM6 .. the shift is still the best device on the market for my needs.
WLAN will replace LAN over the time.. so I don't think it is a big mistake, but it could have been great
GPS "should" be in the SHIFT but not in WM6 (GPS in Vista).. but the choice is not perfect (who whant a GPS that is working only 2 hours..)
The Shift is not the perfect device, for everyone, but we have to see the real potential of the shift before crying for any lack of feature.
HTC has announced a "shift" like device with 5" .. maybe it will have GPS, Phone, etc.. we will see

weird - yes of course.. ;-)
i´m think it´s a new strategy of HTC to make devices without completly knows features.
maybe, LAN is only for Enterprise Customers like us with over 200tsd Users worldwide interesting, (automatic Software distribution) but Phone Functionality is interesting some more users. Is not really practicable with a 7" Device, but with BT Headset and Speak Control - why not. GPS is only a nice Addon for freaks like me, they travel around the world.
But overall: you´re need really a device like this? (i call that "the innovation factor" inside ;-)
But it´s really needed? Sometimes i think about Asus EEE PC, there a many Websites with modding this mini laptop, it´s crazy. when i have a look to this modding sites I see one:
they have much fun with modding her cheap Asus EEE Laptop.
But after 6 Years with HTC devices in all colors I ask me sometimes:
where is the fun - as i start with it..
;-)

joy.d said:
weird - yes of course.. ;-)
...
But overall: you´re need really a device like this? (i call that "the innovation factor" inside ;-)
But it´s really needed? Sometimes i think about Asus EEE PC, there a many Websites with modding this mini laptop, it´s crazy.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well well well .. yeah I really need a device like this. I hate laptop (it's almost like bringing my desktop tower ...) because it's too big for me (even 11" ones). The shift has the perfect size for being a good laptop to use everywhere (including when travelling, when being on the bed, ...).
A laptot is not silent at all... mine is making too much noise.. almost the same as my desktop ! And it's warm.. warm... too warm ! I can't keep it on my knees more than 10 minutes ... WAW ! Totally useless to have a laptop.
The shift is quite, cold (not warm I mean ) and I can put it in my pocket (yeah I can... really ... I can ! .. have I tried... not yet.. but I have look the size and it fits well in my pocket... yeah.. really !).
I have bought an HTC Touch to work without any computer with me ... and .. ouch.. impossible to work with the Touch ! No real application on Windows Mobile .... Mobile Office? NOOOO it's too horrible ! On the shift I can use Windows Vista to work .. mmh so nice !
And what about the size .. 40Go is enough to work everywhere I want .. i can plug a VGA cable to my TFT to have a real screen .. and I can do this in so many room (I'm a student, so believe me... I do see a lot of monitor that just want to put their VGA cable in something !).
The only thing that can be bad was the keyboard, but I have tried it.. and WAW it worked well ! Not as well as my own Logitech Media Keyboard with about 80 words per minute... but I can type about 60 words per minute... enough when I'm not @ home.
I do believe the shift is the only solution for me right now, and I'm waiting a little to see all the real features available on the "retail" shift.. but I have great hopes in it !

Supposedly the Shift has the Qualcomm MSM 7200 chipset in it which has voice and gps built in. I can not see them "removing" that from the chipset. It's just a matter of time before this device get's "unlocked" to it's fullest potential.
I still do not see the marketing strategy of HTC leaving these features "out"... You would think that every device you release you would want to sell the hell out of it no? Are they that cocky that they believe they will be around forever to keep selling up their products to us?
i.e. Model Shift II including GPS!!! More money!!!

juiceppc said:
Supposedly the Shift has the Qualcomm MSM 7200 chipset in it which has voice and gps built in. I can not see them "removing" that from the chipset. It's just a matter of time before this device get's "unlocked" to it's fullest potential.
I still do not see the marketing strategy of HTC leaving these features "out"... You would think that every device you release you would want to sell the hell out of it no? Are they that cocky that they believe they will be around forever to keep selling up their products to us?
i.e. Model Shift II including GPS!!! More money!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hard to know... but it's sure that the strategy seems completely wrong .... maybe they want us to buy a Phone and a GPS ... but it's not the right choice.... many people will not buy a HTC device because of it...

It is an odd strategy but not the first time they've done this stuff. Still I think most people who are inclined to buy Windows Mobile devices usually research them. A WinMo device is alot more advanced than your cpl hundred dollar nokias, I think when people are spending over $500 on a phone they are pretty inclined to do some research.
With that said im pretty sure HTC know if they release a shift w/o GPS or phone enabled, good people here can hack it and enable (remember the P3600) and then its on the users onus if things mess up. Actually sounds like a good strategy when you think about it, they only have to meet target "X" in terms of standards for "X" features. If end users decide to try activating features "Y" then they do so at their own risk...

Osir1s said:
It is an odd strategy but not the first time they've done this stuff. Still I think most people who are inclined to buy Windows Mobile devices usually research them. A WinMo device is alot more advanced than your cpl hundred dollar nokias, I think when people are spending over $500 on a phone they are pretty inclined to do some research.
With that said im pretty sure HTC know if they release a shift w/o GPS or phone enabled, good people here can hack it and enable (remember the P3600) and then its on the users onus if things mess up. Actually sounds like a good strategy when you think about it, they only have to meet target "X" in terms of standards for "X" features. If end users decide to try activating features "Y" then they do so at their own risk...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't think it's smart.. because about 50% of intersted people will not buy the shift only because of missing GPS and Phone.

HTC Touch HD or Iphone

Hi Guys,
I am looking for an advise please.
i am not a power user and I am looking for a device with a large display in order to:
50% make calls
40% web browsing
10% emails
I tried the iphone this morning and I must say that I was amazed by the comfort in browsing the websites specially with the multitouch thing.
Know I understand that the Touch HD offers a larger display and more features but do you think that for an average user, this is a good choice compared to the iphone specially keeping in mind the multitouch advantages?
Thank you in advance for your feedback.

For you: iPhone

SiliconS said:
For you: iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe same thought.
Think the HD is for people who wants to spend time to configure the device to their needs.
So I also think that for you an Iphone would be best.

iPhone.
You might end up overwhelmed and confused by the sheer endless capabilities of Touch HD. It offers so many tools and things that took me as a pro some hours to even find them (e.g. WorldCard Mobile)! It is not difficult to use, but for the basic tasks you described, iPhone will get you there more quickly and efficient.

Ferator said:
Hi Guys,
50% make calls
40% web browsing
10% emails
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this tasks you can do good enough with the iPhone. Touch HD seems to be a real high-end device (hardware)... windows mobile is not very comfortable to use by fingers, for this reason htc offers the TouchFlo interface, but behind that you still have WM.
so, I agree with the posts above, iPhone for you!

IPhone
Me too, I'd say IPhone, although I'm rather a IPhone-hater. But the fact that its easily usable with the features from the begining on is really good for non-hardcore-user. But you should know that as you buy it, you'll not be able to configure much or expand the software much, you'll have the phone its whole "life" like it was at the begining. So, if you love the phone as it is in the shop in your hand, than buy it! You'll have meterw a device thats so easy and intuitive to use as the IPhone. I doubt even that wm7 will be a real competitior in usability to the IPhone. Oh my god, I am writing this?? *shocked* anyway, IPhone +1 have fun with it^^ greez, cad

Don't mean to throw a spanner in the works - but how about the G1.
The hardware may not be as savvy as the HD or iPhone, but the user interface is very good and slick.
The google browser is fantastic and quick !
You can also customise the look and feel of your interface more than on the iPhone, plus give it a few months and you'll get loads of juicy apps !

as long as you don't want to copy/paste any thing from your web browsing into an email and can live with deleting yr emails one at a time an iphone is great.

Go for iphone, great for web browsing, texting and calls. I had one few month ago, but for me I love WM and I think thats me

Hi in you place i think i would go to HTC Touch HD. Why?
You say that you use it this way:
50% make calls
40% web browsing
10% emails
That is things that this phone does without any special effort for configuring.
It as a bigger screen. Making web browsing more eye candy and efficient.
But the diference on this phone is that if you want something for future, i meant, if "tomorrow" you want more from the phone, the HD will allow you to more things for free. You can use GPS (with TomTom, etc..), Write/edit word docs, Share files with bluetooth, and lots of other things... anyone correct me if im wrong.
It´s up to you. This phone is really simple if just use the basics, and if you use TouchFlow 3D you wont get any problems with it.
For a Multimedia based phone, games go for iphone.
If you want a Multimedia (but games not like iphone) and also professional phone just go for the HTC Touch HD.
its just my opinion.
Sorry for my english lol

I also say that you should go for the iPhone. Personally i dont like it and i'm facing the same choice atm, but i'll definetly go for the Touch HD, cos i like what WinMo is offering.
Out of the box iPhone will do what you want and that's it.
Out of the box WinMo might not do everything you want but with some configuring, apps and love you can get it to do whatever the hell you want it to do

i vote for the iphone if the user wants
-simplicity
-non-power user
-no need for specialty programs on windows

Thank you guys for your feedback.
Quite clear that out of the box device winner is the iphone and HD for advanced users.
I am going to try to find a shop in France having the HD in test in order to check the web browsing before to buy anything.
Gracias

i get the feeling that Ferator was hoping to hear lots of reasons why he should buy the HD and definately definately not the iphone.

If you want to have a good proxy for your choice, answer the following question:
"do you prefer an Apple personal computer or a PC (windows or Linux)?"
then use the same answer for the Iphone/Touch HD question. In my opinion, the answer will be correct for 99% of the users.
...Who cannot answer should buy the Iphone.

Ferator said:
Thank you guys for your feedback.
Quite clear that out of the box device winner is the iphone and HD for advanced users.
I am going to try to find a shop in France having the HD in test in order to check the web browsing before to buy anything.
Gracias
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As good as the HD appears to be now, WM devices just get better and better especially the first year they are released because of the availability of updated software and new ROMs. If the HD is good now, next year it will be jumping through hoops with all of the tweaks and updated software that will be coming. When I bought my Trinity it was a brand new device and had all kinds of problems, now it is near perfect. It is just the hardware that is getting long in the tooth

Matterhorn said:
As good as the HD appears to be now, WM devices just get better and better especially the first year they are released because of the availability of updated software and new ROMs. If the HD is good now, next year it will be jumping through hoops with all of the tweaks and updated software that will be coming. When I bought my Trinity it was a brand new device and had all kinds of problems, now it is near perfect. It is just the hardware that is getting long in the tooth
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fully support Matterhorn, really really true....

frustin said:
i get the feeling that Ferator was hoping to hear lots of reasons why he should buy the HD and definately definately not the iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitly
Since the i-thing (iphone, ibook, ipod... you name it) has been around, I always sticked to the windows environment because I do believe that it is much more efficient.
Perhaps not the best user friendly experience but always getting the max out of your investment and not comdamned to a restrictive environment (itunes, iapp market, last technologies for the best prices, plenty stuff/soft whatever what you are looking for...).
But what works for a laptop, home computer can't simply works the same way for a phone.
Let me explain:
I am a sales director. If I can leave witout a laptop during 1 or 2 days, I definitly have to work with an efficient phone, easy to handle and work with, reliable and fast.
In my company out of 9 sales guys, 7 were using HTC devices.
6 of them changed those HTC for iphones and honnestly they're happy.
So conclusion is that if I can check that this device + few tricks answer my basic needs I will go for it otherwise apple will have a new customer.

Ferator said:
Hi Guys,
I am looking for an advise please.
i am not a power user and I am looking for a device with a large display in order to:
50% make calls
40% web browsing
10% emails
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just be sure you never want to MMS, video call, change the battery or load up some special software you read about.
Oh and you don't need a large display "in order to" make phone calls (50% of the usage).

well, i am not sure what is the best Professional communicator. However, i am answering from the blackstone,without any wap tricks and using the fckeditor by seeing the full typing window EASILY. which other phone can do it?

I've always wanted an Apple product....

But I've never bought one! Every time Apple come out with a new product I want to rush out and get one. Then, I don't. This has happened for the iPod, Apple TV, iPhone, new iPod, Mac, etc. There is always some limitation that is a deal breaker (and the high prices). With the iPhone, it is locked to AT&T or O2 or whoever. Take it overseas and your going to be paying incredible roaming fees. You can buy an unlocked 3GS in Europe (Italy) but it costs around $1100 (that is US dollars) and you probably won't find one without a contract. It won't play xvid/divx etc. The Apple TV looks awesome. Ahh, but you're locked in to iTunes and supported formats are not that great. The iPod Touch - wow, that looks fantastic. But I keep having to pay for upgrades? And it's not a phone? It just goes on an on.
So I went out and bought the HTC Hero. I absolutely love this thing. I'm not saying it is perfect, but there are only a few faults so far. Once I turned off that silly clock on the home screen it became quite snappy. The browser is amazing. Bookmarks are easy to access, though I wish you could do it with a finger swipe. Or at least cycle through open pages that way. Integration with Google accounts (maps, gmail, contacts) is fantastic. The maps work great with both GPS and just the cell tower information. Using Google street view and sky is really cool. The device knows its orientation at all times. Enable compass mode in street view and when you face North, the phone will show you that view. Turn in a circle, it will follow. I bet Google will eventually do turn by turn and 3D navigation. Why not? They'll make loads of money on it. The PDF reader is actually very useful. Since the Hero did not come with a manual, I downloaded the manual (all 220 pages) and actually skimmed it very easily with the PDF reader! That was amazing. Come to find out, the manual was actually on the included SD card, but there was no file manager to access it (but there is an app!) Now maybe this phone is so awesome because I'm getting ~4mbps throughput (yes, throughput) with my HSDPA connection....but it works pretty good on Edge too. The Wifi antenna is reasonable for the size of the phone, though my laptop usually gets a stronger signal. The ability to switch from the Sense UI to the normal Adroid environment sweet. I don't know why they have to still call it Touch Flo though. That is just confusing (but I can deal with it!). Start up time (boot) for the Hero is abysmal. I have not timed it but probably on the order of 1 minute. Hope you don't need to call the hospital or something. Have no idea how the iPhone compares. My solution, just leave the phone on.
The day after I bought the phone I set it next to my friends iPhone. I thought, ohh no! His screen is much bigger. This is going to be a train wreck. After a week, I much prefer the Hero size screen. It is so much easier using with one hand. I can type and browse fairly easily with one hand. Plus, when you actually use the Hero as a phone (to your ear) you don't look like you're talking into a small TV. It fits in my pocket much better than the iPhone. Still looking for a really good case that protects and is small. I do wish the "back" button was on the other side of the phone as it is a bit awkward. I guess the designer was a lefty. I can deal with that. The build quality is quite nice, though the back panel is quite flimsy. I hope they sell replacements because it is going to break sometime.
HTC Hero, what I always really wanted my Dell Axim X51v to be.

clobber said:
..... I do wish the "back" button was on the other side of the phone as it is a bit awkward. I guess the designer was a lefty. I can deal with that....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... bought mine couple a days ago, when breaking my Diamond.
just to say: I love the "hero". and as Im "lefty" I love it even more...
Now just waiting for decent outlook calendar syncing program (funambol) for android to be ready and good offline navigation option, as usually I need navigation when out in foreign country and roaming fees are quite high then.
P.S. I will never go back to WM... never ...

Another satisfied Hero customer here as well And I second the WM opinion, I had a XDA Exec for years - and although the hardware was good the OS just ruined it!

clobber said:
You can buy an unlocked 3GS in Europe (Italy) but it costs around $1100 (that is US dollars) and you probably won't find one without a contract. It won't play xvid/divx etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have an android divx player? Link please!

Kudos to the thread starter, I agree completely!
Hear hear(o)!

I had the iPhone 3g , good phone loved it , but I hated apple , their restriction have ruined it for me , I felt like if I was renting it and not actually owning the thing , but over all good phone .

You're right. I don't see a divx/xvid player yet.

clobber said:
You're right. I don't see a divx/xvid player yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You had my hopes up.

guys ... what should i say ... i was WM usr for years ... and tested one interface after the other (wisbar advanced desktop, touch flo 2d manilla, and so on)
but this here (YES I GOT A HERO, TOO) is just awesome... will be a hard fight for microsoft to bring me back ... (maybee windows mobile 7 - we will see)
but this phone is the best i ever had my hands on ... and i'm workin for a big german provider, so i touched much phones
LOVING THE HERO