Database Users

Just My Thoughts

Use an XDA II at the moment, still stuggling to get it to upgrade to SE at the moment. Sort of an intrim measure, untill I decide what to uprade to next. However because I use it with a WiFi card & pocket Skype, my upgrade options are limited.
Have always loved the I-Mate Jam, since its launch, especially its looks & size. However here in Great Britain O2 in all there wisdow decided not to launch the XDA mini so ended up sticking with my XDA II.
Now O2 tell me they will not be providing the XDA mini at all & instead they will be launching the I-Mate Wizard instead late in October or early November.
My thoughts on this go like this, don't really need the keyboard but I can take it or leave it, as long as it is well made & does not make the whole unit excessively fragile.
Built in WiFi, brilliant as I now don't have to have a half inch of my SD card hanging out of the top of my phone, great.
The CPU speed, this is the killer for me, Pocket Skype requires 400mhz or more according to the Skype website, & life without pocket Skype would be unbearable & needlesly expensive .
Does anyone else like me think tbere is a conspiracy going on with the providers strategicly selecting hardware to in one way or another stop us using Pocket Skype. Either the unit is to big to be comfortable & fashionable (the XDA IIi), No WiFi & two littfe memory (the I-Mate Jam), or worst of all not enough CPU speed to run pocket Skype (the HTC Wizard.
All this has firmly made me believe that the Holy Grail of PDA/Phones that I believe we are looking for is:
The Current I-Mate Jam with the following updatey:
128 Megs Ram
Built in WiFi
Windows Mobile 2005.
Wlth two added small hot keys
Slightly faster CPU.
No added keyboard to keep slze as small as is possible.
I am sure I am not the only one wbo feels this & I am sure I would just be one of the many tbousands in the stampede to get hold of this mythical but oh so wanted Devices.
So what is what is left for me to do, keep using my XDA II, hopefully managing to upgrade it to WM2003SE, in the meantime.
And if there really are no CPU upgrades when the Wizard is finally released, hock & sell all I can find to buy a. sim free 128 Meg I-Mate Jam, begrudgingly.
Love to hear other peoples comments on this matter jost to assure myself that I am not the only one who feels this way, or who can give me the dowload address of the combined WM2003SE ROM.
Kind Regards all, Ash'e

PocketPCItalia reviewed the Wizard on their site and were able to use Skype on it, they said they had no problems running it. I don't know the link to the article, but you can find the link on HowardForums somewhere in the Wizard/Qtek9100 threads.

Even someone on the WIKI has reported Skype works (though you need to turn off echo cancellation since this takes a lot of processing power).

ShALLaX said:
Even someone on the WIKI has reported Skype works (though you need to turn off echo cancellation since this takes a lot of processing power).
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Linky ?
Terran

Is this our Holy Grail.
Thanks guys it gives me some hope, but when push comes to I still feel we are all being asked to compromise, the XDA mini was an awsome bit of kit, in many ways far superior to the wizard, in size & processing power, I now have to take a cut in CPU power on my new upgrade phone instead of getting more power, which you would expect with the march of technology & all that.
So I ask the question again, I really do feel we nearly had our holy grail in the XDA Mini, & where left short in the last furlong, when a well thought out upgrade as descríbed in my previous posting was all it would have taken to produce what I feel would have been a benchmark style icon & a runaway sales success even more than it is anyway,
I really do feel that the HTC are trading of with the air time providers to delay Skype becoming the runaway cost saving mobile call preventing success it is going to be.
Kind Regards
Ash'e

My god someone with my same thoughts. I want a SPV M500 (XDA mini, jam etc) for the size but a slower processor ? and Orange want £180 to upgrade!!!!
Don't start me with that treating exsisting customers like new ones come on i've been with Orange for 10 yrs. But take a new contract and you get the phone for £80 or free! depending what traffic you choose. Stinks !!!!!!

WIKI: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Wizard
Also... someone posted on a forum about how much more efficient the OMAP processor is compared to the Intel series: http://www.smartdevicesdirect.com/forum/showpost.php?p=127&postcount=3
Very encouraging!

I've found my Holy Grail!
Well what a difference in I.T. life a couple of days makes, Two days ago I was panicking about having to upgrade to a HTC Wizard with all it's underlying, associated buíld/development problems, and now I am sat here with my own & what I feel is many other people's PDA Holy Grail in my hand.
In my hand I have a I-Mate Jam, but with a couple or three big differences:
One it has 128 Megs of Ram.
Two it has built in WiFi
Three it has a 2 GIG SD Card plugged in that works.
Now I might add that this is not my Jam, However the little known about UK based company that has produced it are quite willing to customise one for me if I can lay my hands on one in the next week or so.
They will also be offering it as a commercial service over the net as of November this year.
So my dear friends, fellow bookworms, frustrated burglers, affronted policemen or city gents with titly furled umbrella's, I am glad I have joined & listened to you all so many times but I am afraid I won't be joining you just yet in your wizardly new worlds now that I have found my own personal PDA Val-Hala. Long live the 128 Meg WiFi enabled Jam, who knows we may even be able to get WM2005 on it yet, that really would be something, & a right kick up the hind quarters for HTC.
Kind Regards Ash'e

Re: I've found my Holy Grail!
sion said:
Well what a difference in I.T. life a couple of days makes, Two days ago I was panicking about having to upgrade to a HTC Wizard with all it's underlying, associated buíld/development problems, and now I am sat here with my own & what I feel is many other people's PDA Holy Grail in my hand.
In my hand I have a I-Mate Jam, but with a couple or three big differences:
One it has 128 Megs of Ram.
Two it has built in WiFi
Three it has a 2 GIG SD Card plugged in that works.
Now I might add that this is not my Jam, However the little known about UK based company that has produced it are quite willing to customise one for me if I can lay my hands on one in the next week or so.
They will also be offering it as a commercial service over the net as of November this year.
So my dear friends, fellow bookworms, frustrated burglers, affronted policemen or city gents with titly furled umbrella's, I am glad I have joined & listened to you all so many times but I am afraid I won't be joining you just yet in your wizardly new worlds now that I have found my own personal PDA Val-Hala. Long live the 128 Meg WiFi enabled Jam, who knows we may even be able to get WM2005 on it yet, that really would be something, & a right kick up the hind quarters for HTC.
Kind Regards Ash'e
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As per the other thred, contact details, pics, website ?
Terran

I've found my Holy Grail!
Well what a difference in I.T. life a couple of days makes, Two days ago I was panicking about having to upgrade to a HTC Wizard with all it's underlying, associated buíld/development problems, and now I am sat here with my own & what I feel is many other people's PDA Holy Grail in my hand.
In my hand I have a I-Mate Jam, but with a couple or three big differences:
One it has 128 Megs of Ram.
Two it has built in WiFi
Three it has a 2 GIG SD Card plugged in that works.
Now I might add that this is not my Jam, However the little known about UK based company that has produced it are quite willing to customise one for me if I can lay my hands on one in the next week or so.
They will also be offering it as a commercial service over the net as of November this year.
So my dear friends, fellow bookworms, frustrated burglers, affronted policemen or city gents with titly furled umbrella's, I am glad I have joined & listened to you all so many times but I am afraid I won't be joining you just yet in your wizardly new worlds now that I have found my own personal PDA Val-Hala. Long live the 128 Meg WiFi enabled Jam, who knows we may even be able to get WM2005 on it yet, that really would be something, & a right kick up the hind quarters for HTC.
Kind Regards Ash'e

people disapointed by the Exec ?

Hi all,
i read more and more people wanting to sell their brand new exec, BARELY USED... Are people disappointed by it and think it doesn't worth the money ???
I am really wondering what is wrong with it... and i don't have one yet, but i am thinking about getting one... now reading more and more bad reviews on it, dispointment and people selling it after less than a week of use... i am really hesitating to buy it, even though i ve waited it for many months !
What is your opinion about it and do you think it really worth 1000 € ??
Thanks,
Mike.

I would NEVER recommend it for a housewife, but if you are just a little bit tech savvy, AND have a weekend to spare setting it up according to guidance on these forums, it's great. If you do not, you could be extremely miserable with the speed and unacceptable bugs such as BT turning off.

I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.

As a phone its no good for me just too fiddily, i use it as a data centre and pocket pc with a seperate phone, for this it is perfect

I think its a great little device. Don't get me wrong, if you expect it to have no bugs you will not be happy but as with all new technology, it will take time to iron them out.
In the meantime, I am happy to live with the minor glitches. It wont take long until the Exec is supported better (and also WM5) and this should be when this device comes into its own.
As for the functionality as a phone - I really am getting used to it

xiasma said:
I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.
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This is spot-on. That's exactly what a few people are doing. Sure there are some people who have been disappointed with theirs, but honestly, what were they expecting? Most people who are complaining are either newcomers to the PDA/Phone world, or they're installing every damn WM2003 software they've ever bought and killing their machines with incompatible software. IMHO
I couldn't ever personally justify €1000 for any phone/PDA device, but for €500 it is an excellent machine. I love mine. Perhaps I'm biased. Just remember that it's an early release of WM5 and there are a few bugs. They'll be fixed in time though and they're not fundamental IMHO.

@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?

I agree with what's been said so far. If someone came to this even from a Nokia smartphone I think they could be disappointed, as they are phones first and pda/gadgets/whatever second whereas the Universal is more like a high-end pda with a phone that happens to be built in. Even coming from a non-phone PDA (as I did) takes a little getting used to imho, since I used to have a far more cavalier attitude to installing stuff on my ipaq whereas now with the Universal I need to consider "will people still be able to ring me if I install this shareware demo?". Stability and reliability is very important for a phone, but for a small portable computer I tend to think that features and what-can-I-install-next are key. These are almost mutually exclusive characteristics and so finding the right compromise is a fairly personal decision I think - although it will probably divide into those two camps.
Going off-topic a bit, it would be nice if there were a 'phone only' kind of safe mode on the Universal, so if you do get something buggy going on you can set it to phone-only mode until you get round to sorting the problems, safe in the knowledge that at least the phone will work.
What do you think?

jah said:
@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?
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It's the Data 5 tariff - purchase from an O2 shop, not online. You maybe able to buy it over the 'phone.

I think people are after quick bucks as well, to me the Exec is buggy, not because of the device but rather the reliablities of WM5. Performance wise it's decent even with O2 active, my major issue is I can't get most of my most often used softwares to work properly in WM5.
Size wise, I was really surprised as it's not nearly as big as I originally imagined, it's only slightly bigger than my old IIs. I think couple ROM upgrades, I'd love this thing

I am glad you guys started this thread. I too want to purchase an HTC Universal, but was having second thoughts because of the bad comments I read about it.
I do have one question though, "Is it plague with soft resets?" How often do you have to perform a soft/hard reset?

First, my hypocrisy: I have an XDA Exec, I've let the opportunity go by to return it and I'm probably going to persevere.
Next, the rant...
I think it is a complete disgrace for this product to have been released as it currently is. It shouldn't be necessary to spend a weekend getting a consumer device up and running. The bugs in the software are not "kinks", they are key pieces of functionality that simply do not work. Microsoft, O2, Vodaphone would have picked up these within 1 day of normal operation without installing ANY other software and yet they release the product and charge you for it.
Here are some of my most obvious examples:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
This is the kind of experience the world had to put up with when Windows 95 was launched and I thought Microsoft had finally reached a point where they were able to release decent software (like Windows XP), but clearly they're still happy to release rediculously low quality products.
What I do plan to do is to harrass O2 as much as possible regarding this. Make them wish they'd never sold the product because of what it's costing them to support. As MS now have OEM resellers carefully positioned between the end user and themselves perhaps doing this will eventually put pressure on MS to stop insulting us.
What's sad, is that they're doing it again - Palm have just decided to start running Windows Mobile, so it's only a matter of time until the Microsoft monopoly has been extended to PDAs as well. And the crazy thing is that this isn't because of it even being a nice product to use (bugs aside). How can MS (who have been developing software for such a long time) be so completely clueless when it comes to software design. Reading this site confirms that I'm by no means the only one complaining:
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
Every time, the support community comes up with nice freeware apps that fill all the holes and on the next release of the OS, all the same holes are there. It's like MS lock all the app designers and developers in a room and don't let them near an end user.
Believe it or not, this post not from an old Microsoft hater, but I'm surely becoming a new one.
There, I'm done...
Dave

It is better than the BlueAngel!!!
I received mine in from O2 the other day and from just running Win2005 and included software, this device really seems to be an improvement over my MDAIII, which I have never yet been able to work solidly in a years's time of playing with it. The build quality is very good. However, my 2 primary 3rd party applications - Goodlink push email and Tom Tom Navigator 5 - do not intall and work. I have been told that the Tom Tom will work if the CABs are transferred in manually, but I have not yet tried that. My Dictionary and Bible programs installed and work fine from their SD chips. But the only thing now is to wait for everybody to tweak apps to Microsoft 2005. This device should start to take off after that starts to occur. However, once HP with their iPaq 6515 upgraades to 2005, then that should be major competition to HTC - even though HTC makes those as well :lol:

There are absolutely, catagorically, 100% certainly, no arguements, LESS BUGS in my brand new WM5 JasJar than any WM2003SE device I've owned previously.
I agree with some points made though, software which works on WM5 is few and far between, and even if you find some which says it works, it may still cause problems...Look at SPB Pocket Plus which slows the JJ to a crawl if you put a storage card meter on your today screen.
My advice is to be patient and accept that because you've bought the first WM5 device, there will be some time to wait until there's software available that's not only "Compatible with...", but actually "Designed for..." WM5.

Very pleased I didn't own a WM2003 device older device then. It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
In terms of other applications, I completely accept that installing old apps on WM2005 may cause problems. I'm refering to the product "out the box".

daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
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What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?

I've already taken it back twice and it's been swapped out both times. There are a number of people on this forum who have had the same problem. Here's one posting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=30591&highlight=
I guess it's possible that if I were to flash to the imate ROM it might work, but then I lose my warrantee.

TBH, I disagree with just about EVERY point on your list
I'm certainly not aware of glaring bugs or omissions. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm using an MDA Pro - perhaps the XDA Exec's extra software is the cause for most gripes.
daveb1976 said:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
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I hate T9 so I've never tried it on the Universal. Then again, with a full keyboard, why would I?
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
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I use voice command all the time and it works PERFECTLY for me. That's well beyond my expectations. Now I can't say I've noticed your issue with contacts, but then again, when I use voice command it's when I'm not really using the screen or keyboard.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
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Totally and utterly disagree
First of all, MS are trying to get people away from traditional Windows thinking of starting and stopping applications. They want to give the perception of everything just always being there and ready. This wasn't an easy decision for them, but I believe it was the right one. OK, for all us techies and PC-savvy types, yeah, we know what's going on in memory. But lots of consumers (your mum, for example) don't. And this is actually a behavior of the APPLICATIONS, not of Windows Mobile. Take a look at the developer's guidelines and you'll see.
Also, if you want to *terminate* an application that was not designed to be terminated using the (X) button, go to Settings, Memory, Running Programs. You can close any or all applications there. And that's been part of Windows Mobile since at least 2002, if not sooner.
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
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That's your experience, but so far removed from mine it's untrue! Then again, I've installed almost nothing extra on my Universal.
[snip]
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
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yeah, I'm in 100% agreement on these two.
:evil: :evil:
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
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See my comment about Settings/memory/Running programs. You can use this as a task switcher too. But the idea really is to discourage this kind of Windows NT/XP mindset.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
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Another brave decision for MS is to try to make files easier for consumers to understand. The idea is
"I don't really understand file systems. Why can't I keep all my documents together? In fact, why do I even need to know where my documents are kept? I just want my spreadsheets to be presented to me when I go to Excel; I want my pictures to be presented to me when I go to picture viewer; etc"
MS had a stab at this with Windows 95 and "My Documents". They have abandoned this in Windows Vista in favour or something more like Windows Mobile's "show you what you need when you need it". All these utilities really will become obsolete for all but the most techie users. My companies products are following the same ideology in desktop and mobile software.

sub69 said:
daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?
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Click to collapse
The T9 PhonePad bug is described in other threads on this forum and I've found that my device has the same problem. However, I don't personally find this in any way restrictive since the Universal has ...umm... a full, usable, hardware keyboard.
All these PDA/phone machines have been best after several experiments with their configuration. I did a hard reset this morning so that I cleaned off all my experimental applications' legacies and now I'm running trusted, tested apps that work well and bring huge positive benefits.
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.

SiliconS said:
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
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Again, I completely disagree. In fact, of almost ALL the 100s of computers I've used and owned, I'd say that it is less true of the MDA Pro than it is any other computer (maybe except the Z88)
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.
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I'll agree with all of that though

Just got my Exec

Hmm I'm not sure if this is just my experience or not but I have never had a contract mobile before ..
Always suspected they were a bit of a con/rip off/customer service black hole.
So anyway, I finally decided I need a personal organizer/pda for work and since my employer gets a 50% discount on o2 I figured why not splurge.
Ordered my XDA Exec yesterday on 400 mins cross network tarrif (£15 p/m) and the handset was £149.
It arrived 48 hours later!
Only it came by DHL in an obviously re-sealed box. The unit was inside, no cellaphane in sight. The battery was charged already and despite the courier listing a simcard in the box inventory there wasnt one in there anywhere.
I am pretty deflated by this rather awful service so far .. is this normal?
Anyway I figured, this does not prevent me from firing it up and playing around on the WIFI networks at work.
I have played with this thing for a good 6 hrs today at work and here's my first impressions...
1. Asthetically its lovely but the buttons are easy to press while getting it out of the leather wallet. Camera is always on when I open it up .. grr.
2. My screen has a yellow tint to it. Is this normal? Seems kind of like a crap TFT panel used to look on earlier laptop units.
3. Anything network related seems to frequently cause the unit to hang. Checking my mail .. downloading 500 mails from IMAP took 15 mins and eventually crashed it.
MSM seems to crash a lot.
IE on this thing is quite simply poor. This may be biased by the fact I am a firefox developer .. but it is clunky, slow to respond, PHP sends it into a catatonic state and secure websites just plain confuse the thing.
Lots of crashing. No flash support??
Not impressed.
4. Software. Like, where is it? WM5 has next to nothing useful thats free. I don't believe in shareware at all .. where's the OS stuff? Where's the PDA port of this and that? Very dissapointed that all the stuff I found was win 2003 se only and that was that.
This alone renders the thing a waste of time .. sadly ..
5. Keypad is just useable but I hate the feel. Keys are flat and the rebound is so firm you frequently have to go back and press it down harder to get the right chracter to appear. Its hard work tbh.
Oh and the most annoying 'bug' of all ..
When the thing turns the backlight off to power save, it doesnt seem to come back on at the same level it was at before going into standby.
It comes on so dark you have to tilt it to the light to get through the menus to turn it up.
Annoying .. but fixable I'm sure ..
Anyway, some thoughts.
Generally I think this has potential but it clearly hasnt got enough memory to run smoothly .. 49mb of useable memory? Pah! It reminds me of the kind of things you see on ebay where someone is selling a p4 laptop with 64 mb of ram installed. Waste of time.
The cpu is either crap or scaled so far back to save power it crawls. Jury is out on that for now ..
Summarizing, I DO like this .. but the lack of good free software and the diddy memory and seemingly bloated and clunky wm5 + bugs ruins it totally.
I will probably be trading this in for an XDA IIi next week.
That is if O2 sort me out. As it is, I am frankly disgusted with their approach to new customers! "Lets send em a refurb and see if they notice ..". I even told the guy I was a customer relations rep for a large corp. Like I know how it works .. bah.
That said, am getting 50% discount over Mr. Public. So can't complain TOO loudly ..

- Deleted -

This is the most useful review I have read. Thankyou.
TBH, its windows. It's gonna be buggy. I think they just send these out untested, safe in the knowledge that:
a) Buzz or Mamaich will inevitably patch, repair or find awkward ways around 90% of the bugs.
b) The average XDA user is a nerd and will probably follow those instructions/patches and *happily* put up with the buggy features.
c) Joe public isn't clever enough to operate a PDA properly. The average person is too stupid to realise that their PDA crashes itself. They think they're making it crash and are too proud to ask for help/consult the internet. They want a PDA 'cos all their work buddies have them and it makes them look important, using it for little more than checking emails occasionally.
d) Microsoft/HTC know that the kind of person who buys these PDA/phones is the kind of person who will always want the newest gadget, and so will forget about the bugs/issues as soon as the new XDA is released (with its own host of problems). Why bother fixing it when in a few months it will be old news and people will have something new to complain about.
PS, 02 gave me a refurb XDA2s when the insurance replacement they sent me was faulty. It works fine which only around 25% do so I'd rther put up with a refurb than complain and have a 75% chance of the brand new one they send me being faulty.

Sending this on the exec ..
I kinda figured o2 would be light on customer consideration. Hehe.
The phone I got appears to be alright now tbh. I have hard reset to corporate and it is light years smoother. In fact it hasn't crashed once in the last 4 hours!
Performance is fine now too. Still not as fast as you'dd like but it certainly feels more responsive.
I AM A DUMB ASS. The sim was in the box, it had been tossed in loose and was wedged between the user manual compartment lid and the inner structure of that fruity pandora's box.
I'm VERY impressed with the battery life so far.. Talking hours. Neato.
Of course the complete lack of developer interest/support in this version of winblows means i'll still not be keeping it unfortunately. Only Microsoft would release a next gen pda os and NOT include binary compatibility either natively or virtually.
So far haven't found a good free irc client that works. All either pay-for-fun or 2003se only. Bummer.
I have now decided the keyboard is useless. That + the wm5 software absentism means I might either trade for a 2003 xda or buy an IPAQ. Since they seem to have a vast quantity of stuff available: Including a LINUX distro.
With regards the keyboard.. Why the f00 they didn't consider half the number of keys correctly aligned and reasonably proportioned ... who knows. Maybe its like you say, this technology is just blingware and nobody seriously expected people to sit down and type a post like this one. Which, incidentally I am doing with the stylus!
Anyway my hand/neck/wrists hurt already.
Must decist for now.

gubbs said:
Hmm I'm not sure if this is just my experience or not but
3. Anything network related seems to frequently cause the unit to hang. Checking my mail .. downloading 500 mails from IMAP took 15 mins and eventually crashed it.
That said, am getting 50% discount over Mr. Public. So can't complain TOO loudly ..
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500 mails.. Wow!
Huib

My JJ crahes when downloading POP email, usually when I am using 3G.
I have to say the ergonmics of the JJ/Exec are mixed. But for me the keyboard is fantastic; typed for 2 x 30 minutes on the train.

for it is great
I have had mine three weeks and it is excellent.
The screen is clear and all functions work great.
I did not load the standard settings as this gives all the o2 stuff that slows it down.
Loaded spb pockect plus which gives as many features as i need.
i believe you have a returned unit.
I have purchased three phones from o2, the XDA, XDA11s and now the Exec and i have always had everything boxed and sealed the battery is normally partialy charged which is standard these days.
Your comments are the same as a friend of mine who ordered the T mobile option and his arrived like yours i told him to return it that day.
He contacted T mobile and his replacement arrived today boxed correctly and perfectly happy with it.
You have a 14 day return policy which some people seem to find a good way of ordering the phone playing around with it and then sending it back under the policy. This then will go back out to a new purchaser as O2 believe it is just a return as the customer did not find it to be what they wanted.
My advice would be return it now, tell o2 you are not happy as the box was resealed they will send yoiu a replacement probable overnight.
clive

How on earth did you get that Tarrif??
'Ordered my XDA Exec yesterday on 400 mins cross network tarrif (£15 p/m) and the handset was £149.'
I have not seen this anywhere and iot sounds great?

Hmm ok, well I'll get on to o2 in a few mins. Have a cup of tea first - has been a long morning.
Reg. the tarrif it's o2 200 + free double minutes for six months.
It would normally be £30 a month but my employer staff contracts afford a (generous) 50% discount.
The handset is marked the same on the public o2 website ... £149? I don't think I got any reductions on that.
BTW I am typing this on the keyboard today and would like to admit as long as the surface you have it on is very level and very firm (ie not your knee or briefcase lid) then its not so bad.
I also need to google and find out what spb pocket plus is ..
Also you know, I am a pda n00b. I'm sure a lot of what I have said is entirely because I haven't sufficient experience with this technology. I don't pretend to be giving anything more than as-is impressions.

Ok. Spoke to a nice lady at O2 - I think we had chemistry or something - cos she called me 'hun' and arranged for a replacement (new) handset straight away and bunged me £10 off my first bill.
Sweet.
I took it to my manager at work today who I know owns an XDAii and who is a SUPER Geek (tm). He informed me I am not using the keyboard right .. you have to hold it in your hands and type using your thumbs.
Doing this, with autocomplete by tapping the screen with a thumbnail produces some pretty impressive and speedy typing.
I also compared the screen to the one on his XDAii and frankly, it is noticeably smoother. Also in comparrisson the unit weighs in it's case practically the SAME amount as an XDAii (in real world tests not on paper I'm sure). It also found more networks on wifi, quicker than his XDAii and he has announced he wants one. Which would suggest, from a long term XDAii user, that these are a step up from that model. Well either that or he's viciously insecure, competative and fickle. I did say manager didn't I?
All in all, its OK. I seem to get it very grimey tho. Must get some wipes.
I'll be posting a proper, intelligent, considered, non-reflex review on here next week when I get it up and running. I'll also be taking the pictures with the camera and what not ..

Thanks, helpful opinions and info. Ordered mine from O2 on Friday, just watiting for it to arrive
M.

I've had mine about 2 weeks now and at first I wasn't that impressed. It was mainly that speed that annoyed me, but that's sorted now.
I did a basic install and removed all the O2 crap, well, I tried but it failed on the remove, so I deleted the relevant program from the startup and it's all good now. I went back to the Windows default theme as well.
I've got Resco File Explorer, MagicButton running and GSPocketMagic++, though all the features for GSPocketMagic++ are turned off (just having it installed makes it quicker, which is odd).
Screen flips are now down to under 2 seconds, which I think is reasonable. It now responds instantly to screen taps, whereas before it would have a delay of a second or so.
I installed spb pocketplus for a while but found it really slowed my system down. I think it was the battery monitor on the today screen that did it. It's now uninstalled and the thing flies.
All I need to do now is get some kind of navigation sorted and I'm fully happy. I think it's way better than my old XDA2.

So, which install should I do then, basic or corporate?
Thanks
M.

lol gubbs @ your thoughts and experiences.
The sad truth is that many of us get so much pleasure out of just owning a machine like the Exec that we're prepared to overlook its flaws, of which there are (to be honest) many. I love mine, but you're right: there's sod-all software available yet that is 100% compatible (and I mean properly compatible, not just "well, we think it works but it might slow your machine down a bit: try it and let us know how you get on"), and WM5 is horribly crippled by a lack of feature-rich functionality.
There is a halo effect on the Exec caused by its position at the cutting edge of Windows-based phone/PDA models. We think we have the best machines available.
IMHO there are three groups of Exec users:
- technologically ignorant users who use it exactly as O2 intended. Will be either happy or ambivalent about it
- geeks who love to tweak. (I'm in this group.) We, with this website, will work on the damn thing until we're happy with it, and this is part of the satisfaction and pleasure of ownership. Are already happy with their Exec because it's the best money can buy, and we overlook its little faults.
- newcomers who've previously owned a Palm/Treo/whatever. Will generally be disappointed with the Exec because it's different from what they're used to and will seem slow/crippled/buggy. Might become happy in time, but more likely to return unit and swear they'll never touch Windows Mobile again.
gubbs, I'd guess you were in the third group when you first posted here, but now you're moving towards the second group. I reckon you'll be a-tweakin' and a-moddin' with the rest of 'em within weeks! Then (and only then) will you love your Exec.

I agree.
After spending 10 months with the XDA 2s I couldn't go back to a "normal" phone. I've had PDAs since before they were called PDAs - this was my first one - http://tinyurl.com/cyhjo
Yes, I have to reboot it most days, and yes it does some odd stuff, but in general it's been an amazing device.
It's in for repair (lose keyboard) and I'm using an old Nokia 6600 while I wait for my Exec to arrive. I've only been without of for 3 days and it's been like losing my right arm!
M.

Turn by Turn Satnav (tomtom etc.) for G1 USA?

I recently shelved my old and trusty Kaiser and have to say, even tough I was very sceptical about switching I am very please to own the best phone I've ever had!!
However, one thing that is stopping me from putting the Kaiser totally away is the lack of a Turn By Turn satnav program such as tomtom, igo, garmin etc.
Andnav1 and andnav2 are the likely options, but unfortunately andnav1 doesn't fit becuase of the maps issue and it looks like andnav2 is a long way off.
Does anyone know any similar satnav programs that are available for the G1?
Thanks for any help in advance!!!
(oh yes, I have searched the obvious terms but nothing useful came up)

I am in exactly the same situation too!
my g1 comes tomorrow... and bye to kaiser with tomtom - waaahh!

wow
monthly paying model - hell no.
I just don't think Brits would buy into that - (big guess) think that Brits like to own the thing- regardless of size of one off payment!
cheers for info!

wow
monthly paying model - hell no.
I just don't think Brits would buy into that - (big guess) think that Brits like to own the thing- regardless of size of one off payment!
cheers for info!

little_rock said:
wow
monthly paying model - hell no.
I just don't think Brits would buy into that - (big guess) think that Brits like to own the thing- regardless of size of one off payment!
cheers for info!
Click to expand...
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There's a fee for the traffic on TomTom. Telenav has traffic updates as well. So it's really a decent alternative in my opinion. But I do perfer TomTom over Telenav anyday.

sure, for thre traffic, i grok the purpose of a sub based model - but not for a non traffic system!
And agree - damned tomtom - once you have used it - everything else seems sh!te

Well one solution you could do which I did until my Kaiser broke is use the Kaiser just as a PDA. I turned off the phone feature in comms and just used it as a PDA when needed. When I went on trips that I needed GPS I just used my Kaiser with Garmin. It did the trick, plus I was able to keep the Kaiser in a car mount while keeping my G1 free to use. Just a thought.

I love it! that wsy I don't have to say gbye to my trusty kaiser... *sniff*
cheers for statign "The Elusive Obvious" as Moshe Feldenkrais said...

I used TeleNav and it's slow and not very accurate (may be related to G1's GPS). My problem is that I don't need traffic updates, POI or any other crap. I just want turn-by-turn directions from point A to point B with real time rerouting. I am OK with storing all of the maps on my SD (hell, my tomtom has 1GB card and does it perfectly, I think I can allocate 1GB for that), I would actually prefer all maps on SD so I don't have to rely on data connection.
Come on now, I can get TomTom One for about $100 new. It will include device itself, car mount, car charger, SD with maps, data cable and, I think, home charger. I already have 5 out 6 (device, cables, mount) so what's stopping them from coming out with a software like that? I would gladly pay $50 for it up front.
Just my 2 cents. I'm sure it was discussed somewhere before but I just need to take out my frustration.
Thank you all for reading

I'm with you on this.. in fact, brand wise, I reckon biz partnering google would be a damn smart move by tom tom... in my map of the world, they kinda fit nicely

I just personally loathe TeleAtlas (Google's map provider). 50% of the time, it has me driving alllllll over to get to the wrong address.

we're screwed then!

Possibly not screwed
The stand-alone TomTom units run on a modified Linux kernel i believe, therefore it shouldn't be too difficult to port to Android.
However if you look at it from TomTom's perspective why would any business invest development time and resources to develope a product for a very new platform that currently only runs on a single device available from one provider. Not exactly good business sense in my opinion.

yeah, that's true too - tho i think longer term, such a relationship would be beneficial! hey ho...

Wow lot of repsonses. Didn;t know the telnav and being a Brit, there is no way in hell I'm paying monthly for it. I'd prefer to pay $100 just for the software and own - I can see why you'd pay for traffic but it doesn't bother me enough to pay for it - I'll just deviate from the congested roads and tomtom would suggest a new route in real time.
I am lugging around my old kaiser at the moment because google maps with directions just doesn't cut it escpecially at 70mph when you can't afford to try squinting at the maps to figure out where the exit is.
Bringing my kaiser defeats the whole point - the G1 has good gps and cell triangulation (it actually finds a fix quicker than my kaiser) so why can;t someone just bring out a ported version of tomtom? I also don't want to have a stand alone unit for the same reasons, not to mention security.

phatphat said:
why can;t someone just bring out a ported version of tomtom?
It would have to be TomTom themselves for it to be legal i think and as I said I unfortunately can't see that happening anytime soon
However there is an open source offshoot - http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page
This potentially could be worked into something usable on Android.
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dude I agree - am doing same with kaiser myself - couldn't agree more with what you've said here...
Bah!
Cmon guys pull your corporate fingers outta ya rect0ids

telnav only works for tmob users as of now, they claim they will release a single version later for other users. i pay for telnav on att but have to use lesser programs till they get it open.

Hope I won't be threadcrapping by throwing in my 2 cents.
Long time Windows Mobile user who just today was told by a G1 user that she HATES her phone. She saw my Touch Cruise and said she'd LOVE to trade. Not knowing much about the G1, I've been doing my research and overall it looks like a solid phone.
The few things I'm concerned about...
1) As mentioned here, the lack of "turn-by turn direction" software. I've used iGuidance for YEARS on my Windows Mobile phones. It's the best I've found and I've used it in Washington (State), Oregon, Nevada, Illinois... it works GREAT! But I would hate to trade my Touch Cruise and have to go without or pay a monthly fee.
2) A2DP - I dont' use it all the time, but I like it for in my car.
Any additional info is appreciated!

I can't answer so much for the navigation... but I use the A2DP on 1.5 for music with my headphone and it works pretty well, even the buttons on the side of the headphones work properly too.

SGS2 as SatNav

I wonder if anyone can share their experience of using SGS2 as satnav with any of third-party software, which does not depends on mobile connection.

I've used it as a SatNav with Sygic and Navigon. Both works extremely well for me including fast lock time and also fast rerouting when I use other route instead.
So far, I say it is better than TomTom on the iPhone I use to have though it tends to use a little bit more battery than iPhone. With a charger, it will still drain the battery but at a very slow pace.

For the next few days CoPilot live new version is half price via the Android market .
http://blog.copilotlive.com/uk/2011/06/28/from-a-to-better-introducing-copilot-live-premium/
jje

Thanks a lot for the responses. Copilot offer looks interesting.
Is it ok to use a satnav app and listen to some music on teh phone simultaneously? What about answering calls while driving? Does it interrupt navigation?

Lets face it folks, android will never be up to the par of iphone until we get tomtom app. It really is that simple. TomTom is so much better than anything else available at the minute.

You can also use TeleNav for free on the SGS2 by following the instructions in this thread. It functions without cell towers which makes it better than Google Maps in certain situations. (Note: I didn't check international support)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1139482

Dannyboyni said:
Lets face it folks, android will never be up to the par of iphone until we get tomtom app. It really is that simple. TomTom is so much better than anything else available at the minute.
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Matter of opinion really mate , can i ask why you rate tomtom so far ahead of others?? i admit the ui is simple and easy to use but co-pilot for example is a great piece of software .
When i had an iphone4 i went for co-pilot and not tomtom , i just think tomtom is over-priced compared to others
Its good for sure but so are the others avalible . Its all personal preference really but i doubt i would buy tomtom for android

buxz777 said:
Matter of opinion really mate , can i ask why you rate tomtom so far ahead of others?? i admit the ui is simple and easy to use but co-pilot for example is a great piece of software .
When i had an iphone4 i went for co-pilot and not tomtom , i just think tomtom is over-priced compared to others
Its good for sure but so are the others avalible . Its all personal preference really but i doubt i would buy tomtom for android
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For me: IQ Routes. The best route calculation I've ever seen, whereas other apps just don't get it quite right or just come up with horrible routes.

Tremium said:
For me: IQ Routes. The best route calculation I've ever seen, whereas other apps just don't get it quite right or just come up with horrible routes.
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Its is well in front especially if you have the live traffic updates etc .
jje

I just used it for a 900-mile trip from Georgia to Iowa, using CoPilot Live 8, and it worked very well. For the money, CPL is the best navigation solution, at least in North America where the maps are pretty current. Google Navigation is pretty good too, although it's dependent on having a data connection to download maps, which can be an issue if you're driving in less-populated areas.
I downloaded the new CoPilot Premium USA package (CPL9) last night & used it on a short local trip this morning; the new version works at least as well as the old version.
As far as listening to music or handling phone calls while navigating, I didn't get a chance to test that on this trip. On previous trips, I've done both while navigating -- however, that was with CoPilot 8 on a WinMo phone. I suspect the phone's OS has a lot to do with this capability, and I haven't used Android long enough to know if it's up to the task; I suspect it will be, especially once the OS takes multi-cores into account.

If tomtom don't want to program their app for android, given the popularity of the platform, then its their loss TBH.

Going to Cyprus in a month or so and was wondering about SatNav as I'm hiring a car while we're there...
I was going to buy a 'block' of international data roaming that you can buy when on hols for the times when needing Internet access...but are there any cheaper short-term alternatives I shoulkd be thinking of?
Co-Pilot or Google Maps....??
Edit: CoPilot nor GM not coming up with any guidance for Cyprus!! This suprises me with the amount of people that head over to these type of holiday destinations, they could really be missing out on some serious revenue.... :-(

Don't forget that Google Maps is going offline soon!
engadget.com/2011/06/08/google-maps-navigation-to-go-offline-this-summer-garmin-and-tom I CANNOT POST LINKS YET
Quote "Dutch tech site All About Phones claims that Google Maps Navigation will get a true offline mode later this summer. In December the Android app received an update that cached routes and the surrounding areas, but without a data connection you still couldn't enter a new destination. A source inside the Dutch telco industry said that Goog would removing the requirement for coverage -- an obvious next step for the nav tool, especially with Ovi Maps bringing its turn-by-turn prowess to WP7. The move is also bound to be another thorn in the side of standalone GPS makers like Garmin and TomTom. After all, it's tough to compete with free."

Quarn said:
engadget.com/2011/06/08/google-maps-navigation-to-go-offline-this-summer-garmin-and-tom I CANNOT POST LINKS YET
Quote "Dutch tech site All About Phones claims that Google Maps Navigation will get a true offline mode later this summer. In December the Android app received an update that cached routes and the surrounding areas, but without a data connection you still couldn't enter a new destination. A source inside the Dutch telco industry said that Goog would removing the requirement for coverage -- an obvious next step for the nav tool, especially with Ovi Maps bringing its turn-by-turn prowess to WP7. The move is also bound to be another thorn in the side of standalone GPS makers like Garmin and TomTom. After all, it's tough to compete with free."
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Yeh, it coudl put off some people from buying satnav apps or devices. However, I think it is more about functionality and paid apps could provide some more worth paying for.
Wanted to take up this CoPilot offer yesterday evening but was put off by poor reviews. People were complaining about the new version being not as good as the previous, problems with regestering and downloading maps. Still probably buy it over the weekend.

I have been using Sygic Aura for a while now, and the previous version since my Nokia 5800. The Aura version is a real eye-candy, super fast, 3D buildings, but the routing - at least in Brussels - can be a bit weird but it will get you there.
I installed Copilot Live Premium for Europe - the UI is not as nice as Sygic, but the routing seems more normal (for Brussels) - no better or worse than Google Navigation.

I Would like to see Garmin on my S2..
I Am using copilot on my S2 and it works very well....
TomTom - Dont go there!

TA123 said:
Yeh, it coudl put off some people from buying satnav apps or devices. However, I think it is more about functionality and paid apps could provide some more worth paying for.
Wanted to take up this CoPilot offer yesterday evening but was put off by poor reviews. People were complaining about the new version being not as good as the previous, problems with regestering and downloading maps. Still probably buy it over the weekend.
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Got it yesterday, but only because of price reduction (EU 29 £)
The good:
Registration ... no problem
Download 4 GB maps ... no problem
Basic navigation ... no problem
The bad:
Missing integration with Contact (invoke navigation from within Contact Apps) ... embarrassing!
Facebook/Twitter crap ... annoying
POI import impossible (bug) ... annoying Edit: should be corrected http://getsatisfaction.com/copilotlive/topics/can_no_longer_add_pois_with_v9
Streetname text too small ... annoying

Hi must say that I am hoping that TomTom will come to Android. I use Co-Pilot and/or Google Navigation at the moment, and find that sometimes junctions get confusing, because the app doesn't zoom in sufficiently.
When I used to use TomTom on my old Windows Mobile Xperia X1, the program would zoom right in on junctions, making it easier to see where I need to go.
A few times on Co-Pilot/Google Navigation, I have got in a pickle on a Roundabout, meaning I have to around it twice to get the correct exit.
Does anyone else have this problem, and is anyone aware of a SatNav app that is as good as TomTom in this regard?
Cheers
Bcfaigg

TomTom is coming for Android
TomTom's Corrinne Vigreux (MD) says a TomTom app for Android is coming soon.
http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/We-Meet-TomToms-MD-Corinne-Vigreux-Before-Break-Free-Event-8910.php
HOWEVER she may be confusing it with Route66 which is coming for Android soon and is using TomTom maps (aka Tele-Atlas). As everyone knows - this is VERY far from the same thing. So lets hope she is not making such a crucial mistake.