I have found that the native WM5 messaging program uses a huge amount of data to check mail. It seems to have the following problem -- it downloads more than message ids of previously downloaded emails evey time email is checked. This results in more than ten times the data use for Pop3 email, when compared to snappermail (a palm program). Unfortunately this program isn't available for WM5.
So what is the best Pop3 program? I am looking for an efficient one, preferably with a small footprint. I don't need exchange personally.
Lots of luck. You will not find a PPC mail app as wonderful as Snappermail, IMHO.
Try FlexMail or ProfiMail. Back up your PPC first
Qmail
I'm trying qmail; if it solves the problem I'll post about it. It runs from the miniSD card, which is nice. It has a million settings and a Japanese guide, which is a challenge...
I'm using qmail as well. It's very small and quick but it doesn't properly support landscape, which is annoying.
Best POP Mail
I have used QMail for quite a while, good product, frequent updates, a living site. Advantage: it's free.
BUT: it's a far cry from WEBIs' new Flexmail 2007. A real Blockbuster.
See here
http://www.pocketinformant.com/products_info.php?p_id=mail&dir=wm (Info and DL)
Cheers
hrb
I was using the Flexmail trial before installing Qmail, and I can tell you, Qmail is about 100 times faster. Doesn't have nearly as many options though and isn't as easy to use.
Will flexmail run off the miniSD card and still check mail periodically?
Qmail v3 now checks periodically, even when installed on the minisd. On the other hand, it is in many regards more klugy than the WM5 messaging, especially with regard to the email editor, lack of today screen support, and support for landscape mode. Still, it uses much less data to accomplish the same thing, which is what drove me away from WM5 messaging. Having only used it for two days, some of the kluginess can probably be eliminated with the options.
Is Flexmail just a wrapper for WM5 Messaging?
I ask this because I tried Flexmail. It has many nice features, and a great interface. However, I am trying to find a "lean" program for use when I am in Europe, one that doesn't have the inefficiencies of the WM5 messaging program. It doesn't seem possible to run WM5 messaging and Flexmail simultaneously; clicking on messaging or /Windows/tmail.exe bring up Flexmail. This makes me think that Flexmail doesn't have its own mail checking engine.
In any case, it seems equally inefficient as WM5. My benchmarking on Qmail, in contrast, is that it uses less than 1/3 of the data that WM5 Messaging uses. I sent myself a variety bunch of emails, downloaded them with Messaging, checked again, deleted them from the server, and checked again, then repeated the exact process with Qmail, and the total KB used was 30% of the WM5 Messaging, according to SPB GPRS Monitor.
Go for either Qmail of FlexMail 2007. Also see the mailer roundup at http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=569&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Thanks, Menneisyys
I'm trying Qmail and nPOP. I like the simplicity of nPOP, and it the clear winner for minimizing data use (which is what started this; when I am data-roaming Europe, I need a more efficient email program than messaging).
The big problem with nPOP for me is that it can't search contacts for email addresses. Otherwise it works pretty well. I'd definitely use Qmail if there was an English manual. It is nice to have such programming control but frustrating that the descriptions of the commands are translated from Japanese.
Flexmail is as bad as WM5 messaging for data use, and uses a lot of resources generally. It is bloated, IMHO, but it does let one do about anything one wants.
Re: Thanks, Menneisyys
prestonmcafee said:
I'm trying Qmail and nPOP. I like the simplicity of nPOP, and it the clear winner for minimizing data use (which is what started this; when I am data-roaming Europe, I need a more efficient email program than messaging).
The big problem with nPOP for me is that it can't search contacts for email addresses. Otherwise it works pretty well. I'd definitely use Qmail if there was an English manual. It is nice to have such programming control but frustrating that the descriptions of the commands are translated from Japanese.
Flexmail is as bad as WM5 messaging for data use, and uses a lot of resources generally. It is bloated, IMHO, but it does let one do about anything one wants.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Answered this at http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=1203&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Thanks Thanks Thanks!
That is exactly what I needed to know! The problem I couldn't understand was how I would, with no new messages, get 100K of downloads, but it was grabbing copies of existing messages through autofetch.
That is very helpful, and just turning off autofetch when traveling will do the job!
Of course, there is still stuff I like about qmail...
FlexMail 2007 is seriously different than FM 2006...
I've been using FlexMail 2006 since May. But it was very slow, and had a propensity for losing track of things every so often. I've upgraded to FlexMail 2007 and it is significantly different. It is much faster, and I haven't had any problems with it since I started using it. I can't answer any questions about how much it downloads, since I haven't paid any attention to that - but I can say that it works with my data on my miniSD card, and the program installed on the main memory. (I like it this way because the main memory is faster, so the program is quite zippy from there.) I'm using a Cingular 8125. I was over-clocking this baby at 276 just so the old FlexMail 2006 would be usable, but I don't overclock now unless I fire up Opera...
I just download Qmail and I added one of my POP3 Accounts and it is fast. However, when I try to establish my Hotmail (Free) Accounts I have no success. Is this because of Hotmail (Free Account) or what do I need to do. I have an MDA with WM5
SSL
I think that is an SSL issue and you need to install the SSL software; read about that in a QMail thread. (I'm not an expert.) QMail comes with SSL software separately.
email 4 all on WM
GMail, Hotmail, Exchange, Newsgroups, and RSS all on the same Windows Mobile (WM5 and up) reader, with HTML, links, & attachments all working.
It is not a new reader- it’s qmail (qmail3) version 3.0.7. I am not an expert, and don’t have a clue as to all of the filter settings and crap that you can do with it, but I did figure out how to get all of the above working in ONE PROGRAM! Below are the workarounds and settings that I discovered.
I previously used Qusnetsoft reader for NNTP and RSS and Flexmail 4 for email. I was unhappy with the Flexmail viewer (no touch scrolling; scroll bar with stylus only) and email navigation from open mail to folders a bit of a pain. Qusnetsoft took too long to sync (nice interface though). I had used QMail3 before and liked it, but still use Hotmail and was bummed by MSN no longer supporting POP.
First… Download QMail (http://handheld.softpedia.com/get/Internet-Utilities/Email/QMAIL-8837.shtml) for WM.
Then, for each account, In QMail, <Menu<Tool<Account<Add Account
GMAIL
Name=Gmail (or whatever)
Class=mail
Incoming=POP3 (or IMAP, but I’ll cover POP3 settings)
Outgoing=SMTP Then tap “OK”
In General Tab…
Incoming=pop.gmail.com
Outgoing=smtp.gmail.com
Name=your name
Address=your email
Reply-To=your email
In User Tab…
Username=your Gmail Login Name
Password=your GMail Password
Check Authenticate
Username=your Gmail Login Name
Password=your GMail Password
In Details Tab…
Incoming mail Port=995
Secure=SSL
Outgoing mail Port=465
Secure=SSL
All other Settings are fine or adjust at your discretion.
HOTMAIL
First off, if you are not living in the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, France, Japan, Spain, Germany, Italy, or the Netherlands (Where MSN has made POP for hotmail available again) you’ll need to change your location in Windows Live or Hotmail to reflect that you now live in one of those places. The site I used for these settings is http://www.mydigitallife.info/2009/...and-smtp-support-instantly-for-all-countries/ Once this is done, the Qmail settings are as follows…
Name=Hotmail (or whatever)
Class=mail
Incoming=POP3
Outgoing=SMTP Then tap “OK”
In General Tab…
Incoming=pop3.live.com
Outgoing=smtp.live.com
Name=your name
Address=your email
Reply-To=your email
In User Tab…
Username=your Hotmail Login Name
Password=your Hotmail Password
Check Authenticate
Username=your Hotmail Login Name
Password=your Hotmail Password
In Details Tab…
Incoming mail Port=995
Secure=SSL
Outgoing mail Port=25
Secure=SSL
All other Settings are fine or adjust at your discretion.
Exchange
Not all exchange servers will work this way- your admin must have access enabled. I work for a school district and they have a web interface. Here are the QMail settings that get me in.
Name=Work (or whatever)
Class=mail
Incoming=POP3
Outgoing=SMTP Then tap “OK”
In General Tab…
Incoming=www.your domain name.web access suffix eg. www.avondale.k12.az.us
Outgoing=.your domain name.web access suffix eg. www.avondale.k12.az.us
Name=your name
Address=your email
Reply-To=your email
In User Tab…
Username=your Domain/Login Name eg. Avondale/JPerkins
Password=your Exchange Password
Check Authenticate
Username=your Domain/Login Name eg. Avondale/JPerkins
Password=your Exchange Password
In Details Tab…
Incoming mail Port=143 (auto selected)
Secure=none
Outgoing mail Port=25 (auto selected)
Secure=none
All other Settings are fine or adjust at your discretion.
Newsgroups
Name=newsgroups (or whatever)
Class=news
Incoming=NNTP
Outgoing=NNTP Then tap “OK”
In General Tab… (Check with your service provider for NNTP access settings- here’s some for AT&T)
Incoming=news.sf.sbcglobal.net
Outgoing= news.sf.sbcglobal.net
Name=your name (any name)
Address=your email
Reply-To=your email
In User Tab…
Username=your service provider’s login eg. [email protected]
Password=your service provider’s Password
Check Authenticate
Username=your service provider’s login eg. [email protected]
Password=your service provider’s Password
In Details Tab…
Incoming mail Port=119 (auto selected)
Secure=none
Outgoing mail Port=119 (auto selected)
Secure=none
All other Settings are fine or adjust at your discretion.
RSS
Name=RSS (or whatever)
Class=rss
Incoming=RSS
Outgoing=Blog Then tap “OK”
Then tap “OK” and Then tap “OK” again
Select RSS from drop-down menu, tap-and-hold in the blank white space and select Subscribe to Feed…
Enter Feed Site eg. www.npr.org Tap Next
The Name should auto select (if you are connected to the internet). Tap “OK”
All other Settings are fine or adjust at your discretion.
I use an HTC Kaiser (AT&T Tilt) w/cooked diamond rom 6.1 and I don’t have a data plan- I have WIFI at home @ work, so I needed something that could load everything onto my device for offline viewing when out-n-about. If you open a message then tap ok, then <Menu<Edit<Select All then tap-and-hold any off the messages, select <Mark<Mark Download, then do a Sync or Roundup again (you can find these by tapping and holding icons on the bottom toolbar) you can download full emails/news articles/etc. Hope this helps someone
nate
prestonmcafee said:
I have found that the native WM5 messaging program uses a huge amount of data to check mail. It seems to have the following problem -- it downloads more than message ids of previously downloaded emails evey time email is checked. This results in more than ten times the data use for Pop3 email, when compared to snappermail (a palm program). Unfortunately this program isn't available for WM5.
So what is the best Pop3 program? I am looking for an efficient one, preferably with a small footprint. I don't need exchange personally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
checkout http://community.seven.com/main.php. it consumes less memory and its easy on battery consumption also. Push email works like charm and I can sync n number of accounts with this.
Related
Wat I would love to have is an IMAP E-mail client for my MDA II.
I've seen lots (and lots and then some) of POP3 E-mail clients somewhat modified to speak IMAP; but i have so far not seen an IMAP E-mail client. One that scans a folder when you select it and then stay connected instead of getting all headers over and over again each time you want to check for new mail. Only fetching the message when i want to read it etc etc
In short an e-mail client for imap like imap was intended to be used would do wonders for my gprs bill
Is there such a programm
read these ?
http://www.okspain.com/docs/imap/pocketpc2002.htm
http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/imap/npop.htm
found from this search
http://www.google.dk/search?client=...da&q=pocketpc+IMAP+&meta=&btnG=Google-søgning
read these ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now I have, they contain howeven no information. I know how to configure poutlook for IMAP and I personaly have not tried nPOP because i'm loking for an IMAP-client not a modified pop client who tries to download everything again each time in the FAQ of the page you linked to <a ref="http://www.okspain.com/docs/faqparts/ExternalMail.htm#ExternalIMAPVsPOP">
Why should I use IMAP? What is the difference between POP and IMAP?</a>
poutlook generated 0.5-0.7Mb of trafic just to check my e-mail (because eacht time if tries to get an compleet folder list and I have quite some folders)
A true e-mail client could scan INBOX at startup and keep connected at less than 1K per day.
Finally got my hands on the M5000, but I'm having real problems with email.
The first account I set up is fine, but whenever I make another, it screws up the app. It loses all options in the 'switch accounts' menu until I kill the app and start again.
And when I finally get into it, the inbox for the account mirrors one of the other accounts on the phone (email or sms) and just doesnt work.
Any ideas? Or any other email programs, preferrably one that supports html email?
Thanks.
I use WebIS mail.
Version 2.11 works with WM5 reasonably well. Theres a beta that supports WM5 and should be a full version by the end of the month they say.
One of the few mail clients that works for my IMAP4 and SSL account.
Hi,
Since I use the hotmail account on my wizard I would like to have a
program that automatically checks my email every, say 30 minutes.
I was wondering if someone could create (or help me creating) a program
which does the following:
loop every 30 minutes
{
launch \Windows\tmail.exe
delay(10sec)
press Right soft-key // open "Menu"
delay (5sec)
press 'z' // on the Dutch wizard this means "Send/receive"
delay (10sec)
close program // I can see on my today screen if I received any new emails
}
Well, actually, periodic mail check has always been in Messaging. Read the Mailer Bible ( http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=569&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 ) on how it must be configured and what needs to be known about it.
Menneisyys said:
Well, actually, periodic mail check has always been in Messaging. Read the Mailer Bible ( http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=569&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 ) on how it must be configured and what needs to be known about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately this is not possible for I am using an hotmail account. During the email setup, when you insert an hotmail adress and then press the 'next' button, Pocket MSn is launched automatically. But this is not what I want. I want to use the regular Inbox program to check my mails every x minutes.
Menneisyys said:
Well, actually, periodic mail check has always been in Messaging. Read the Mailer Bible ( http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=569&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 ) on how it must be configured and what needs to be known about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks...but i mean using standard Pocket outlook.....I need it because I use DirectPush
well i have it setup on my home computer with this
http://www.download3k.com/Internet/Email/Download-GetMail.html
i set it up and it pulls the hotmail and then sends it on to your push email, i have my set at 15mins. it is so easy to use!
But you have to have your home computer running all the time.
John
I have never used hotmail but most internet mail providers (gMail, Yahoo, ComCast.. etc) allow you to forward a copy of the mail from your inbox.
You have a few options:
Set-up an account with mail2web and use ActiveSync.
Set-up an account with a service that provides IMAP support (which pocket outlook works well with).
Set-up an account with gMail and enable POP3 Access.
Now have your hotmail account forward a copy of all messages received to the new account.
Finally set-up Pocket Outlook to gather the e-mail from the secondary account.
Have you tried nPop?
you cant forward with hotmail, that is why i put that programme!!! it pulls and pushes to other emil address
I'm looking at possibly getting the MDA Vario II in a few months on a web'n'walk tariff, but before I jump in I've decided to do some real indepth research;
- Does the handset support "push" e-mail?
- I have a GMail account which I use as my primary account; can I use this as a "push" mail account at all?
- Is it/will it be compatible with Windows Vista and Office 2007?
- Does it have Adobe Acrobat reader? Or is it compatible with the handset?
- Is it compatible with a TomTom 910 unit?
I've since attained that it does support push e-mail, but I don't know what to do with my GMail account, any suggestions are welcomed.
The TomTom unit is dubious, but I'm game for a laugh.
GMail doesnt support push. You can fwd gmail to a free exchange account. Please search for details.
PDF viewer is pre-installed. "adobe Acrobat" is not, but based on the former the latter isn't necessary.
It is compatible w/vista, not sure about Office 2007.
@Trapper
I forward GMail to a free mail2web.com Live Push Email account, works great. But keep in mind that Push email generates network traffic, so get a good data plan, or use polling settings very carefully (disable when roaming).
Friend of mine is using his Tytn with TT 910 over Bluetooth, works.
Outlook 2007 with Tytn works fine, using it since a few months, never had a problem. Just keep in mind that Outlook Mobile on your Tytn cannot read the new .docx Word format, so save in old .doc format. Office can also save directly to PDF, which you can port to your Tytn.
Think about the Tytn´s keyboard and size involved, if you dont need it, get the Trinity instead.
Lucas0511 said:
@Trapper
I forward GMail to a free mail2web.com Live Push Email account, works great. But keep in mind that Push email generates network traffic, so get a good data plan, or use polling settings very carefully (disable when roaming).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much does it cost? I've had a quick look and I can't work it out. Also, does this mean that I won't be able to access my account at www.google.com/mail and it will be filtered?
The free mail2web live account is...Free! You will still be able to access your email from gmail.com.
Ninja1
You can set gmail up as a pop account. It doesn't "Push" but you can have the phone automatically check the account periodically.
It is compatible with Vista. Vista even has a nice little new program that replaces ActiveSync that works pretty well. It's still in beta, and thus has a few quirks, but works pretty well.
Yes it supports push email. I have mine coming through an exchange server.
It has a PDF reader built-in, but I prefer the mobile version of Foxit pdf reader.
No idea about the TomTom though.
Perhaps some more information that can help you
As others stated, it does support push email. mail2web is a good free exchange service. Another one is 4smartphone (not free).
To get push email to work with gmail (or any other email).
1. Sign up with mail2web or any other exchange host. i-mate provides this for free for their users after you sign up at their site.
2. Set up the sync settings on the device. Things to watch out here:
* You cannot set up an external exchange service on the device when it is plugged into the PC with ActiveSync running (the menu is disabled on the device). You must disconnect it from the USB and then add a new server resource.
3. Forward your email to your mail2web (or other exchange) account. In gmail there are two ways to do this. Either you forward all mail to mail2web, or you setup a filter so that only certain mail is forwarded. I prefer the filter method because I do not want to have mailing list emails forwarded to my device. To setup my filter, I just put my gmail address in the To: box, and then had the action set to forward it to my mail2web. This way, only messages directed to me will be forwarded, not those going to the mailing list address.
Mail appears in both places: in your gmail inbox and on the phone. If you delete from the phone, it only removes it from your exchange account and not from your gmail inbox.
4. For all other accounts, you can set them up separately in the device and have it poll the servers every 5 or 10 minutes. I use this for our corporate IMAP server.
5. Your push email shows up in your Outlook E-mail folder in messaging.
I have used it with Outlook 2007 without incident. There is a new ActiveSync beta out which helps.
I'm not sure about TomTom -- but any bluetooth receiver will work. I have used Navigon5 and I can confirm it works.
Hope this helps
Another question, which is of a big concern to me is; do T-Mobile UK release ROM updates for the handset? And if so where from?
When I worked for o2, we released them through www.my-xda.com and that was a dream to install and action.
One final question, is it possible that future Hermes ROMs may use Crossbow?
Thanks for the info fyrestrtr. It sounds like if you use a service like mail2web, you can view your mail on your phone using push and still use your Gmail account but that any messages you view over your phone won't get marked as read in your Gmail account until you view them there as well. Is this correct?
trapper said:
Another question, which is of a big concern to me is; do T-Mobile UK release ROM updates for the handset? And if so where from?
When I worked for o2, we released them through www.my-xda.com and that was a dream to install and action.
One final question, is it possible that future Hermes ROMs may use Crossbow?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very unlikely to ever see an official upgrade from HTC, HTC has their mind set on 2007 models, not the old Hermes. Even ROM updates will address just the most pressing issues, dont expect miracles these days
Yes Mail2Web works as you assume. Just carefull with Push polling traffic, can amount to up to 15 megs per month just for polling. If you ride on a low volume data plan, you might get burned....
Thanks everyone in advance for any help you may give me.
I have just bought an HTC Desire and my company e-mail runs through MS Officelive (i.e. Hotmail/Windows Live for Business).
I have heard previous Android devices syncing with Hotmail (probably through 3rd party apps installed).
Does anyone know of a good email app that enables HTML etc. and syncs with Hotmail/Windows Live which isn't POP3 (which is terrible as it doesn't sync).
Tried Maildroid and it will only work over POP3 again (even though it says it works with Windows Live).
Would be great if there's a push one too!
Don't mind if it's a paid app either to get it working without POP3.
Any help?
Thank you again.
RE: MailDroid
Hi Urp,
MailDroid will work for it over IMAP if you have set the correct settings. Most people have POP3 so it defaults to that, but if you add in your username/pass and click manual setup, you will be able to add in your imap settings.
PM me if you need some help.
-Joe
P.S. I did not even know live supported IMAP
I tried Seven Beta and if kinda works with hotmail but is very buggy at the moment and support is lacking as it's only beta.
It may work better for you so give it a try
Sully
Thanks guys, I appreciate the support. Do you know the IMAP settings for Windows live then? Everywhere I've read said it isn't supported.
Thank you again guys!
Matt (urp)
RE: Windows Live
Right, that is what I thought. MailDroid works over POP3 for hotmail/live/msn etc. and will do a poll of the server. My understanding is that windows live mail means that the desktop client can access other IMAP accounts and not that Hotmail itself has IMAP.
You can get push mail by signing up for other companies (shangmail and maybe seven (not sure how seven does it)) and they will poll and get UIDs and then push to you. Essentially, they are polling and pushing from their application. Personally, I am biased, but I will tell you that I have many happy hotmail/live/msn users.
Are you seeing issues using MailDroid?
edit: Go to windowslivehelp.com and search for IMAP and you will see that it is not supported.
I have my hotmail account synced directly to my desire, i simply told it to set up an account used my hotmail addy and it got the settings from the internet for me.
However in case yours isnt picking them up for some reason I have provided them below for you- Htc Desire on Tmobile Software number 1.15.110.11
incoming settings
protocol =pop
pop server = pop3.live.com
security type =ssl
server port =995
outgoing settings
login required =ticked
username =hotmail addy ie [email protected]
smtp server=smtp.live.com
security type=tls
server port=587
Account name =Hotmail
Your Name =what ever you want it to display
hope that helps you.
The op doesn't want to use pop access he wants imap or push email, where it deletes messages from server and shows read items as already read etc
Sully
Then simply select your live/hotmail account and select the three vertical bars from the widget to take you into the full email app.
then from there you need to press the menu button and select more.
then select settings and under send and receive settings select
Delete mail on server to be on ie ticked.
this will then delete them from your hotmail account as you delete them from your device when you press refresh to resync the account.
This wont mark them as read on the server however, what you can do as a workaround is to select the unread function on the device to read your unread from the device or to switch off the delete from hotmail account setting and delete them all from your device after you have deleted the ones you dont want which will leave the ones you want to keep on the server but remove them from your device. Then when you sign into hotmail you can mark them all read.
isnt perfect but better than nothing.
btw just to add the delete settings can be set up seperately for each account etc etc
haggisuk99 said:
Then simply select your live/hotmail account and select the three vertical bars from the widget to take you into the full email app.
then from there you need to press the menu button and select more.
then select settings and under send and receive settings select
Delete mail on server to be on ie ticked.
this will then delete them from your hotmail account as you delete them from your device when you press refresh to resync the account.
This wont mark them as read on the server however, what you can do as a workaround is to select the unread function on the device to read your unread from the device or to switch off the delete from hotmail account setting and delete them all from your device after you have deleted the ones you dont want which will leave the ones you want to keep on the server but remove them from your device. Then when you sign into hotmail you can mark them all read.
isnt perfect but better than nothing.
btw just to add the delete settings can be set up seperately for each account etc etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am aware of the delete function, I was just giving examples of what imap has over a pop account. If you delete a message from hotmail after your phone has synced then it will remain on the device, I know what you are saying but it just doesn't offer the functionality of imap or push email
Sully
Appreciate that but unless you want to hand over your login details to a third party to handle that we are stuck with the above as there is no imap support with hotmail for paid or free accounts to the best of my knowledge, the only item i know that uses imap in conjunction with live mail is the windows desktop live client however there is no visible settings shown on what ports or settings are used.
Until someone can figure them out we are stuck with the above.
re:
Correct, or until Microsoft decides to catch up and implement IMAP
Thank you so so much guys, you've been so helpful. One reason I need IMAP or push is because I quite often move mail between folders. I need something like mboxmail on iPhone but on a far superior OS!
The nearest looks like seven but it isn't perfect by any means.
Thank you again guys, you've been so helpful.
P.s. noticed an engadget post saying HTC desire had overnight upgraded its Google maps to include turn by turn and its fantastic!!!!