Database Users

New Programmer (Maybe)

Hi to all,
i'm new in xda\xda2 world...and i would like to develop under it? What i need for developing? What cpu type\model it have?

Well.. The About and Device Information screens in the System Settings menu should take care of your questions..
But if you're lazy, the XDA typically runs PocketPC 2002 on a StrongArm CPU, and the XDA II PocketPC 2003 (Windows Mobile Edition) on an Intel XScale (which is backwards compatible with ARM).
If you simply visit www.pocketpc.com and click on developers you'll end up at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/information/devprograms/default.mspx
Where you can even order a free DVD-Rom with the PocketPC SDKs, compilers etc (they will charge shipping and handling, at a freakishly high rate). You can also download that stuff.
However, you will need Visual Studio .NET as well, which is not a free download (in fact, even the academic version will set you back more than EUR 100).
I've not ventured into it myself yet, so it's quite possible you can actually do without Visual Studio (as the compilers themselves can be downloaded). Also, there's a version of gcc for pocketpc.
Any one developing for pocketpc who wants to chip in here? (I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).

You only need Visual Studio .NET if you want to create .NET applications. If you are just programming in C++, I'd highly recommend downloading Embedded Visual Studios 3 and 4 and get the appropriate SDKs (all of which are free). At least, that's what I use.

What about Java Midlets?
I am thinking on writing a couple of apps for PPC, but going into VS.NET might be too deep for me. I also want to extend those later for palm and maybe desktop. No hardware specific stuff so I thought I might get away with Java which I am pretty good at.
Does anyone have anything to say - pros / cons? How midlets are on O2 in general - fast / slow, too much memory or processing power? Please share.

Why don't you get down to c++? Fast, small, general support...
--------------
У нас сегодня день вежливости, так что вы просто идите за мной и никуда не сворачивайте!

Some day
Good old C++. Too many years with Java - softened my mind... Undoubtedly C++ is the best way to go in terms of speed and size. Lets see what people say. :idea:

I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?

i read that visualstudio .net 2005 will be able to make pocketpc applications in all languages not just .net applications like 2003
not sure about how you get started with vb.net since vb is very evil and nasty
but with c++ mfc and c# .net you start out with a form and there you can place components on it and program what functions they have
but if you want to make games and stuff which dont use normal windows stuff then you are better off programming them in c++ directly for the arm platform

I use Embedded VC++ and MFC as it's far tighter/smaller than .net. Purists can go completely Win32(ce) native and avoid MFC altogether but MFC does make development a good deal easier without the bloat of .net (not to mention how slow it is..).

Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications

I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have VS.NET 2003 you don't even need the SDK.
just File-> New->Project
on the left column "Project Types" choose your language and on the right click the "Smart Device Application"
Basically is like any windows application but less possibilities and if you want to create any serious application you'll have to do a lot of optimization and native coding.
Good luck

Books?
I'm also interested in programming with Embedded VC++...and was wondering if anyone know of books out there I can pick up that will help my learning process a little quicker. Its been a long time since i coded in C++ and need to refresh.
The part I'm really need help is the basic parts ...like how to get things started.
I'm confident that once I get started i'll start to remember my C++ coding.
I'm downloading the Embedded VC++ from Microsoft as I type this post ...hope it wont be too hard to understand how to create a simple "hello world" program for PPC devices
Also if anyone knows a good web sites with code samples ...please PM or post the URL, I'v seen some but not all that great
Thank You

Sometimes less is more.......
zendrui said:
Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned above, if you drop ATL, MFC .NET and all the implied baggage they have to bring with them to work, you are left with the old WIN32 programming model. This is now considered very 'old hat', but if all your program uses are API's in WIN32's kernel.dll, user.dll, gdi.dll etc...... i.e. the very primative windows stuff, then it is possible to write an application that will run on any version of Windows Mobile. This application will be pretty simple, but the compiled .EXE file targetted at an ARM4xx model will run on almost any Pocket PC, without any other files. (i.e. The single APP.EXE file will run on any upwardly compatable system, no fancy implementation project to create or run, just copy the release '.exe' file to the target machine, and it will run!). These days 99%+ mobile PDA's run ARM class processors. The manufacturers call them by their own processor IDs but under the hood they are all the same.
To create an app that will run on the Mobile 5/6 platform without looking like previous Mobile 2002/3/SE apps, limit the Main menu items to two. This will make sure they appear either side of the input icon, as menu items. More than two and the Mobile 5/6 menu items appear as 2002/3/SE apps in the old control bar style.

wfberg said:
(I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as scripting goes... I'm a big fan of Mortscript. It's so simple... I guess I'm a little purist myself

Basic 4PPC
Basic for Pocket PC, has anyone tried this. I went to the site and it only cost around 40.00 US. I've worked with "basic" before and the progs were usually bloated and sluggish. Wonder if this would be the same.

i have started developing in ppl language the program name is PIDE from ariana soft..its very easy..it also lets u make games
ive created my first clock in it

ATL or MFC

Hey,
I'm trying to make a User Interface for a program using Visual C++ 2005.
I have two options for Smart device applications.
1. A project for Windows Mobile and other Windows CE-based devices that uses the Active Template Library.
2. An application for Windows Mobile and other Windows CE-based devices that uses the Microsoft Foundation Class Library.
Which is the right one to use for Pocket PCs?

No idea 27 - I've never used either ATL or MFC. I do all my stuff in pure Win32. It's not necessarily the best way, but it's worked fine for me so far, but I do very limited GUI stuff.
BTW - regarding your signature:
"A tiger does not have to proclaim its tigri-tude."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
clearly Wole Soyinka hasn't met Tigger.
V

vijay555 said:
No idea 27 - I've never used either ATL or MFC. I do all my stuff in pure Win32. It's not necessarily the best way, but it's worked fine for me so far, but I do very limited GUI stuff.
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see.
I'm trying to make a GUI app for WindowsMobile. Any ideas?

Hi 27,
I'm not sure what you want your GUI to contain but a simple Embedded MFC app with a dialog might be a good way to get going?
best of luck...
dav

I've been developing for big Windows since '92 and have done one or two small CE projects. Straight API programming is a bit tedious but it's pretty straightforward and will help you learn the fundamentals. It also produces the tightest code, an important consideration if you're looking to run on smartphones.
Avoid MFC like the plague -- MFC apps tend toward the large side, and it tends to force you into a document/view model that might not be appropriate for your app. I did quite a bit of MFC work in the early and mid 90s; most of my time went to working around MFC's limitations.
If you go the ATL route check out WTL, a set of C++ template classes that extends the UI functionality of ATL considerably. I've been using it since it first came out and wouldn't switch back to MFC if you put a gun to my head.

I agree. MFC makes everything less straight forward. Why use something designed to hide how it works? I use plain win32. After the pain of starting from scratch you eventually build up your own code base to reuse.

both can be used
MFC is old and bulky but many things are don automaticly
compared to win32 sdk
you can also use .net but they are somewhat slow
but dont use much space
win32 sdk is the fastest and can do anything but it's the most work

3waygeek said:
I've been developing for big Windows since '92 and have done one or two small CE projects. Straight API programming is a bit tedious but it's pretty straightforward and will help you learn the fundamentals. It also produces the tightest code, an important consideration if you're looking to run on smartphones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can i do this on VisualStudio 2005?
I'm a bit new to this.

Strange question - you develop in Win32 by NOT developing in MFC or ATL
The other frameworks are built on top of the native Win32 API. So learning the bareknuckle stuff first helps you to learn how to get the most out of the other stuff.
V

27 ask a importent question imho
can ppl make nativ CE api projects in 2005
or do you need embedded c++ to do that?
btw i believe that embedded c++ is free so if 2005 cant do it
ppl can just get the embedded version

VS2005 does native Win32 (2003, Smartphone and WM5).
EVC is of course free, and runs much better IMHO (eg no bugs in the Remote Tools etc, faster). I can't think of a good reason to upgrade unless you're developing expressly for WM5 or using non C++ languages, for which VS2005 is required.
V

Free IDE SharpDevlop for Mobiles

Hello,
is there a free IDE for .net Programming on WM 2003 PhoneEdition using C#?
I have Visual Studio 2003 Express Edition...and the SDK is downloading...
eVC 4.00 is running but i thing .net is better...and more convinient
It woud be nice a link list with items i need for this.
Perhaps use the SharpDevelop IDE for Creation this Apps?
Thx

SharpDevelop is not really working with .NET CF. There is a workaround but it is a mess, you can't use GUI for making forms and such, do a search on their site and wiki. While .NET might be convenient, I suggest you to learn C++ and use EVC++4 and possibly MFC; native apps is the way to go under PPC, especially since .NET apps tends to be slow (and you can't do some stuff in .NET either).

Evc++ I cant get the SRC Files for this example CTapiConnec
Hello,
hmm yes i can use evc++, i have tested it and it works fine.
Creating a Standard Dialog based app no "beginning" Problems...
BUT
I want to use the tapi do make a call. Ok MS has a CallIt sample on Homepage and some post in this Forum...
I cant get the SRC Files for this example CTapiConnection
defined in TAPIUTILS.H
And reimplement this again is mutch work...i tried it but many compiler errors after 20 Fixes i give it up.
Where can i download it? Or only for MSDN Subscribers?
And the issue about looking what is included in .h Files

Software Development

Can I develop software to WM5 but no .Net frameworks ?

Of course!
In fact it is much better to use native code on WM devices because it is faster and takes up less resources.
If you already know C / C++ go to MS site and download the free eMbedded C++ 4 and the Pocket PC 2003 SDK (don't mind the OS version).
Also if you have VS 2005 download the WM 5 SDK and create a smart device project in C++.

1 cool think about .net though is i had a sudoko or whatever it's called
program for pda and the same exe workd on pc too
but all in all .net is a slow as java though on pocketpc the .net maybe better implemented then the java vm's

levenum said:
Of course!
In fact it is much better to use native code on WM devices because it is faster and takes up less resources.
If you already know C / C++ go to MS site and download the free eMbedded C++ 4 and the Pocket PC 2003 SDK (don't mind the OS version).
Also if you have VS 2005 download the WM 5 SDK and create a smart device project in C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi levenum,
i have VS 2005 and WM 5 sdk installed.
well my problem is C++ which i never read seriously but i have a good
working base of C on which i had developed two simple game.
How can i implement the code in VS2005/WM5SDK with minimal
interaction of C++ ?
How can i get working base on VS2005/WM5SDK?
Can u suggest me a tutorial or any free book?

with c vs. c++ it's really much the same ++ is just an expansion with nativ class and other object orientented features
any c program should be able to compile using a c++ compiler
but i doubt you can write CE programs or even windows programs without using any kind of class related code
heck you cant even do that in basic (evil language) or c#
the internet is soo full of free programming stuff it's not even funny
buying paper books is a thing of the past imho unless you want to read while on the toilet and dont have a laptop or pda
http://www.brpreiss.com/books/opus6/
good googling for more

Actually, except for M$ nasty invention called "COM" there is nothing in Windows API that requires C++.
In fact I rarely use classes unless I am building an MFC app to save time.
Also, (can't remember the link for the life of me) but there is some way of accessing class objects in pure C using some struct tricks.
So basically you can leave fine without the ++, but you may need to work a little harder.
You should just create a basic smart device project. VS will generate a "hello world" app for you and you can see how it works. Moving from C to C++ should be very easy.
It's C# that is no longer a real programming language
P.S.: Did you know most of Win CE DLL are actually written with ANSI C?

levenum said:
Actually, except for M$ nasty invention called "COM" there is nothing in Windows API that requires C++.
In fact I rarely use classes unless I am building an MFC app to save time.
Also, (can't remember the link for the life of me) but there is some way of accessing class objects in pure C using some struct tricks.
So basically you can leave fine without the ++, but you may need to work a little harder.
You should just create a basic smart device project. VS will generate a "hello world" app for you and you can see how it works. Moving from C to C++ should be very easy.
It's C# that is no longer a real programming language
P.S.: Did you know most of Win CE DLL are actually written with ANSI C?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanx,
i had already compleated "hello world"
and C++ is really not much away from me
actually i only have a single problem:
How can i get working base on VS2005/WM5SDK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i think it is more exactly Win CE API knowledge which i require.

How Do I Start Cooking Roms
I Know A Bit Of C++ ,how Do I Start Cooking My Own Roms

tawanda: first off - your question has nothing to do with this thread, if you have an unrelated question you should start a new thread BUT search first to make sure it was not asked and answered a 1000 times!
As for your question - cooking ROMs is not programming - it helps to know a programming language but what you really need to do is familiarize your self with the tools used to pack and unpack as well as dump and flash ROM images.
Note that these tools are different for different devices or at the very least need to be configured differently.
I recommend you start by reading the WiKi.

After some years of absence from the programming world I think now I've time enough to start again. I'm familiar (but a bit rusty) with assembler, C and C++, but I think I have start more or less from the beginning.
I already installed Visual Studio 2005 and the WM05 and WM06 SDK. Now I'm not sure whether I should use C# or C++. The big difference is that C# needs compact framework?

Your question is mainly a matter of personal preference.
Here is my opinion on C++ vs. C#:
C++ advantages:
- Native code is faster than .NET
- Easier access to Win32 APIs
- Ability to write system components like keyboards and today plugins.
C# advantages:
- Saves on coding time
- Allows use of many .NET CF components to quickly accomplish complex tasks.
Please note that I am bias. I hate .NET and want nothing to o with it. Specially on mobile devices that do not have the processing power to spare for the .NET overhead.

I second levenum's recommendations -- I've been programming big Windows for 15 years and have managed to avoid .NET. Of course most of what I do these days is NDIS driver programming, so it's mostly straight C, with C++ for supporting user-mode code.
Avoid MFC -- it adds a bit of overhead which is OK for big Windows, but not for WM. If you're going to use a C++ framework, I highly recommend using ATL/WTL -- it's what MFC wants to be when it grows up.

I'm looking at my visual studio 2005 and wanting to covert my c# application to C++...
I clicked on a new project and i'm looking at the various options in Visual C++ for Smart Devices. There are a few to choose from... how do I know which one I want to choose?
ATL Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device Application
Win32 Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device ActiveX Control
MFC Smart Device DLL
Can you guys tell me the difference between those options and which I should use to develop for WM6?
Thanks,
Derek

imho then a good pro of c# vs. c++ is the nice object lib that .net give
mfc is pretty crap in every respect and if you do pure stk
it's more work to make it object orientated
"ATL Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device Application
Win32 Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device ActiveX Control
MFC Smart Device DLL"
depend on what you want to do
i mean DLL is not a program but a lib that other programs can access
but then today items are dlls
win32 is pure win32 stk where you pretty much have to do all the prev work to get your application up and running
mfc is microsoft foundation clases it's an somewhat dated object lib from ms which makes making an application faster it pretty much give you a dialog and let you place components such as button on it
ActiveX is an somewhat evil internet programming platform
atl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Template_Library
you can prob find more info about everything you want more info about
from wikipedia too

thanks for the info rudegar!

Fastest/Lightest way to code WinMo?

Hi,
I'm the author of a fairly popular j2me chat application, and I've been pondering making a native WinMo version for a while now. I've thought about a .net port, as it would probably be easiest, but all the .net programs I've used seem dead slow. Or am I totally off base with that?
Is there another environment I should look at as an alternative? Keep in mind, I don't have visual studio.

jonnycat26 said:
Hi,
I'm the author of a fairly popular j2me chat application, and I've been pondering making a native WinMo version for a while now. I've thought about a .net port, as it would probably be easiest, but all the .net programs I've used seem dead slow. Or am I totally off base with that?
Is there another environment I should look at as an alternative? Keep in mind, I don't have visual studio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can still stick with j2me, you'll just have to change a few things to make the program compatible with the java midlet managers for WinMo. You should read up on the Mildet Bible: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339579
Hope this helps

From testing open source apps and they ones I have made I found that C++ is faster and c# is easier but a little slower. I used c++ for along time but have moved on to C# and love it.

u can just develop in any .net language, then use tool like SmartAssembly to optimize and convert the code to binary.

jonnycat26 said:
Hi,
I'm the author of a fairly popular j2me chat application, and I've been pondering making a native WinMo version for a while now. I've thought about a .net port, as it would probably be easiest, but all the .net programs I've used seem dead slow. Or am I totally off base with that?
Is there another environment I should look at as an alternative? Keep in mind, I don't have visual studio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, I strongly recomend to use c++ for winmo dev.
cheers,
Hlov

The fastest and leanest method is C++, available in Visual Studio Professional, or as a standalone free download as Embedded C++ version 4. The development models are MFC, (Microsoft Foundation Classes), ATL (Active Template Library), or good old fashioned WIN32.
Of these WIN32 is the leanest, all the others, including .NET are wrappers around it. If you haven't used or seen WIN32 before, expect a pretty steep learning curve. Look at the Hello World example it generates, to try and figure out what the hell is going on. Basically you respond to WM_XXXXXX messages fired at your application by the operating system. Limit the main menu to two items, and WinMo 5/6 will display it correctly, with the main menu options either side of the keyboard/SIP icon, and accessible by the left and right menu buttons. Otherwise it will switch to a WM 2002/3 menubar, which you then have to click on to use.
If you want to go any lower down than this, you will need to brush up your ARM assembly language.

Unless you are developing graphics intensive applications, using c# is fine for applications. C++ is necessary if you are writing games and the like but the SLIGHT performance decrease is not that big of a deal otherwise.

Soul_Est said:
You can still stick with j2me, you'll just have to change a few things to make the program compatible with the java midlet managers for WinMo. You should read up on the Mildet Bible: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339579
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using J2ME polish, so I can (and have) built a build specifically for WinMo, but I want a native version so I can multitask (can't do that with Esmertec) and I'd also like to develop a homescreen plugin.
My app is here:
http://www.buildhigh.com/jonnychat/
If anyone has any suggestions on what I should do with a port, I'd love to hear them.

stephj said:
The fastest and leanest method is C++, available in Visual Studio Professional, or as a standalone free download as Embedded C++ version 4. The development models are MFC, (Microsoft Foundation Classes), ATL (Active Template Library), or good old fashioned WIN32.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's been a long time since I've done standard Win32 development, and I really don't plan on going back down that road again. For starters, I imagine Visual Studio would be a dog in a VM (I only run windows in a VM these days, won't run it on actual hardware if I can avoid it).
It's looking like I"m going to try C++ or C# for this. I'd like to do C# because that's pretty close to Java, but I also have moral qualms about using a language designed to usurp a good and popular language just because MSFT didn't develop it.
Decisions, Decisions....

You can also try using Ruby with the Rhodes framework: http://www.rhomobile.com/home
Or you can try using Mysaifu which may allow multitasking (haven't tried any of my programs on it yet): http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~dat/java/project/jvm/index_en.html