Database Users

New Programmer (Maybe)

Hi to all,
i'm new in xda\xda2 world...and i would like to develop under it? What i need for developing? What cpu type\model it have?

Well.. The About and Device Information screens in the System Settings menu should take care of your questions..
But if you're lazy, the XDA typically runs PocketPC 2002 on a StrongArm CPU, and the XDA II PocketPC 2003 (Windows Mobile Edition) on an Intel XScale (which is backwards compatible with ARM).
If you simply visit www.pocketpc.com and click on developers you'll end up at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/information/devprograms/default.mspx
Where you can even order a free DVD-Rom with the PocketPC SDKs, compilers etc (they will charge shipping and handling, at a freakishly high rate). You can also download that stuff.
However, you will need Visual Studio .NET as well, which is not a free download (in fact, even the academic version will set you back more than EUR 100).
I've not ventured into it myself yet, so it's quite possible you can actually do without Visual Studio (as the compilers themselves can be downloaded). Also, there's a version of gcc for pocketpc.
Any one developing for pocketpc who wants to chip in here? (I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).

You only need Visual Studio .NET if you want to create .NET applications. If you are just programming in C++, I'd highly recommend downloading Embedded Visual Studios 3 and 4 and get the appropriate SDKs (all of which are free). At least, that's what I use.

What about Java Midlets?
I am thinking on writing a couple of apps for PPC, but going into VS.NET might be too deep for me. I also want to extend those later for palm and maybe desktop. No hardware specific stuff so I thought I might get away with Java which I am pretty good at.
Does anyone have anything to say - pros / cons? How midlets are on O2 in general - fast / slow, too much memory or processing power? Please share.

Why don't you get down to c++? Fast, small, general support...
--------------
У нас сегодня день вежливости, так что вы просто идите за мной и никуда не сворачивайте!

Some day
Good old C++. Too many years with Java - softened my mind... Undoubtedly C++ is the best way to go in terms of speed and size. Lets see what people say. :idea:

I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?

i read that visualstudio .net 2005 will be able to make pocketpc applications in all languages not just .net applications like 2003
not sure about how you get started with vb.net since vb is very evil and nasty
but with c++ mfc and c# .net you start out with a form and there you can place components on it and program what functions they have
but if you want to make games and stuff which dont use normal windows stuff then you are better off programming them in c++ directly for the arm platform

I use Embedded VC++ and MFC as it's far tighter/smaller than .net. Purists can go completely Win32(ce) native and avoid MFC altogether but MFC does make development a good deal easier without the bloat of .net (not to mention how slow it is..).

Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications

I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have VS.NET 2003 you don't even need the SDK.
just File-> New->Project
on the left column "Project Types" choose your language and on the right click the "Smart Device Application"
Basically is like any windows application but less possibilities and if you want to create any serious application you'll have to do a lot of optimization and native coding.
Good luck

Books?
I'm also interested in programming with Embedded VC++...and was wondering if anyone know of books out there I can pick up that will help my learning process a little quicker. Its been a long time since i coded in C++ and need to refresh.
The part I'm really need help is the basic parts ...like how to get things started.
I'm confident that once I get started i'll start to remember my C++ coding.
I'm downloading the Embedded VC++ from Microsoft as I type this post ...hope it wont be too hard to understand how to create a simple "hello world" program for PPC devices
Also if anyone knows a good web sites with code samples ...please PM or post the URL, I'v seen some but not all that great
Thank You

Sometimes less is more.......
zendrui said:
Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned above, if you drop ATL, MFC .NET and all the implied baggage they have to bring with them to work, you are left with the old WIN32 programming model. This is now considered very 'old hat', but if all your program uses are API's in WIN32's kernel.dll, user.dll, gdi.dll etc...... i.e. the very primative windows stuff, then it is possible to write an application that will run on any version of Windows Mobile. This application will be pretty simple, but the compiled .EXE file targetted at an ARM4xx model will run on almost any Pocket PC, without any other files. (i.e. The single APP.EXE file will run on any upwardly compatable system, no fancy implementation project to create or run, just copy the release '.exe' file to the target machine, and it will run!). These days 99%+ mobile PDA's run ARM class processors. The manufacturers call them by their own processor IDs but under the hood they are all the same.
To create an app that will run on the Mobile 5/6 platform without looking like previous Mobile 2002/3/SE apps, limit the Main menu items to two. This will make sure they appear either side of the input icon, as menu items. More than two and the Mobile 5/6 menu items appear as 2002/3/SE apps in the old control bar style.

wfberg said:
(I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as scripting goes... I'm a big fan of Mortscript. It's so simple... I guess I'm a little purist myself

Basic 4PPC
Basic for Pocket PC, has anyone tried this. I went to the site and it only cost around 40.00 US. I've worked with "basic" before and the progs were usually bloated and sluggish. Wonder if this would be the same.

i have started developing in ppl language the program name is PIDE from ariana soft..its very easy..it also lets u make games
ive created my first clock in it

ATL or MFC

Hey,
I'm trying to make a User Interface for a program using Visual C++ 2005.
I have two options for Smart device applications.
1. A project for Windows Mobile and other Windows CE-based devices that uses the Active Template Library.
2. An application for Windows Mobile and other Windows CE-based devices that uses the Microsoft Foundation Class Library.
Which is the right one to use for Pocket PCs?

No idea 27 - I've never used either ATL or MFC. I do all my stuff in pure Win32. It's not necessarily the best way, but it's worked fine for me so far, but I do very limited GUI stuff.
BTW - regarding your signature:
"A tiger does not have to proclaim its tigri-tude."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
clearly Wole Soyinka hasn't met Tigger.
V

vijay555 said:
No idea 27 - I've never used either ATL or MFC. I do all my stuff in pure Win32. It's not necessarily the best way, but it's worked fine for me so far, but I do very limited GUI stuff.
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see.
I'm trying to make a GUI app for WindowsMobile. Any ideas?

Hi 27,
I'm not sure what you want your GUI to contain but a simple Embedded MFC app with a dialog might be a good way to get going?
best of luck...
dav

I've been developing for big Windows since '92 and have done one or two small CE projects. Straight API programming is a bit tedious but it's pretty straightforward and will help you learn the fundamentals. It also produces the tightest code, an important consideration if you're looking to run on smartphones.
Avoid MFC like the plague -- MFC apps tend toward the large side, and it tends to force you into a document/view model that might not be appropriate for your app. I did quite a bit of MFC work in the early and mid 90s; most of my time went to working around MFC's limitations.
If you go the ATL route check out WTL, a set of C++ template classes that extends the UI functionality of ATL considerably. I've been using it since it first came out and wouldn't switch back to MFC if you put a gun to my head.

I agree. MFC makes everything less straight forward. Why use something designed to hide how it works? I use plain win32. After the pain of starting from scratch you eventually build up your own code base to reuse.

both can be used
MFC is old and bulky but many things are don automaticly
compared to win32 sdk
you can also use .net but they are somewhat slow
but dont use much space
win32 sdk is the fastest and can do anything but it's the most work

3waygeek said:
I've been developing for big Windows since '92 and have done one or two small CE projects. Straight API programming is a bit tedious but it's pretty straightforward and will help you learn the fundamentals. It also produces the tightest code, an important consideration if you're looking to run on smartphones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can i do this on VisualStudio 2005?
I'm a bit new to this.

Strange question - you develop in Win32 by NOT developing in MFC or ATL
The other frameworks are built on top of the native Win32 API. So learning the bareknuckle stuff first helps you to learn how to get the most out of the other stuff.
V

27 ask a importent question imho
can ppl make nativ CE api projects in 2005
or do you need embedded c++ to do that?
btw i believe that embedded c++ is free so if 2005 cant do it
ppl can just get the embedded version

VS2005 does native Win32 (2003, Smartphone and WM5).
EVC is of course free, and runs much better IMHO (eg no bugs in the Remote Tools etc, faster). I can't think of a good reason to upgrade unless you're developing expressly for WM5 or using non C++ languages, for which VS2005 is required.
V

Which Development tools for WM 6

Hi all you experienced WM programmers.
I'm new to windows mobile, but program other environments for a living(micro controllers, embedded linux, win32 etc)
I was wondering what the development tool of choice is for WM ?
I know that on Win32 .net development sucks blocks...yes I develop extreme low latency process control stuff and the abstraction from hardware in .net makes it unusable for such programming as you totally lose control over memory allocation etc.
Being as the WM is such a limited devices I presume the same issues are found there as well. So what are you guys using to develop? strictly embedded c/c++ or is there something else out there that is useful?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions

You defiantly want embedded!
You can use the free eVC or the expansive VS 2005, but if you want quick native code programs or to write system components like today plugins and keyboards this is the only way to go.
If you think .NET is bad on a PC just wait till you see it in WM. Because of the limited resources of these devices its a sluggish nightmare!

levenum said:
You defiantly want embedded!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/

Other Developer environments.
Have you considered the PPL programing environment.
Provided is an IDE environment both for the PC and PPC. This means that applications can be developed and run on both platforms. Not sure about latency, however you can create .exe files from you're code and interface to external DDL's.
There web site is http://www.arianesoft.ca/page.php?1 and a trail version can be downloaded. The trail gives basic functionality with a 15 day full function registration option.
The Developer is quite open to questions and the forums are also quite active.
Not sure how deep you wish to access the OS/HW however it may be worth considering.
Cheers.

burkay said:
http://www.d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, that one slipped by me even with the spell checker.
Excuses:
1) I was tired.
2) English is not my native language.
I'll just leave it there because its pretty funny. And hey, using native code instead of .NET is in defiance of Bill's wishes!

Language being used for applications

I've been developing enterprise applications for over a decade now, but PPC Development is totally new for me. I'm curious to know what language most PPC developers use to build their applications? Is it common to develop using Mobile .NET or are most of the applications developed in C++?
I really want to get involved, as there are applications I would like to write, but I'm struggling to find a starting point.
I want to develop a finger friendly application like the SPB Mobile Shell, and I assume I will have to use C++ and animations to ge the desired functionality? Any help is greatly appreciated.

The simplest way to start is using the .NET platform.
Its main languages are Visual C# and Visual Basic.
The main advantage is that those two languages are simple (the C# is close to the Java language) and secure in terms of memory management, but they also are slow, because the compiler creates managed code, just like the java compiler does.
I've tried to do some small apps using C#, and it's really entertaining and "simple". The problem is that you need the Microsoft Visual Studio IDE, which is not free, unless you use a free version, the Visual Studio Express IDE, but I'm not quite sure that it works to dev on a PPC.
As far as I know, there is a way to do unmanaged code, using C++ I guess, which is much faster. I don't know how to program in C++ for a PPC, and I'm also interested, as the few apps that I made in C# were really slow.
Good luck !

ErGo_404 said:
The simplest way to start is using the .NET platform.
Its main languages are Visual C# and Visual Basic.
The main advantage is that those two languages are simple (the C# is close to the Java language) and secure in terms of memory management, but they also are slow, because the compiler creates managed code, just like the java compiler does.
I've tried to do some small apps using C#, and it's really entertaining and "simple". The problem is that you need the Microsoft Visual Studio IDE, which is not free, unless you use a free version, the Visual Studio Express IDE, but I'm not quite sure that it works to dev on a PPC.
As far as I know, there is a way to do unmanaged code, using C++ I guess, which is much faster. I don't know how to program in C++ for a PPC, and I'm also interested, as the few apps that I made in C# were really slow.
Good luck !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm guessing that applications like SPB Mobile Shell is developed in C++. I just don't see how it could be .NET code. I was sort of hoping, considering this is a developers forum, that there would be a better response to this thread; however the overwhelming feeling I get is that the 'new' people aren't cool enough to share information with.

devikta said:
I'm guessing that applications like SPB Mobile Shell is developed in C++. I just don't see how it could be .NET code. I was sort of hoping, considering this is a developers forum, that there would be a better response to this thread; however the overwhelming feeling I get is that the 'new' people aren't cool enough to share information with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel your pain but best suggestion I can give to you is there is icontact app for which author have released source code (Thank you very much for that) . Look at the code and try to understand and see where you can get with it.
I started using visual studio IDE but I was running in to issue with the IDE itself, good luck to you.

noob question: How to start programming?

Hi all,
Finally I've my HD2 and I must say, I'm very happy with it!
I'm no noob in informatics, I program in VB and VBA and I'm DBA in Oracle and SQL Server. But to be honest, I don't now how to start.
I tried searching the forum here, but couldn't find a thread: how to start programming on a WMO-device.
Thanks already for the info!
Koen
PS for example I would like to program this:
keyboard layout French (AZERTY)
T9 language Dutch

Koen D said:
how to start programming on a WMO-device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You start programming for WM the same way you do it for Win32. Just download mobile SDK from Microsoft and you're good to go. You use the same IDE, Visual Studio, for mobile programming, and coding experience is the same, in addition to the fact that a lot of code using WinAPI will just work. There are differences of course with regard to memory management or power management etc., but those are either documented on msdn or are discussed at length everywhere on the web.
VB and .Net won't be good for your purpose though, you'd need native C++ code for things like rewriting a T9 engine I think.

Hey hey!
You can find many interesting postings and topics here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=522
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=260
There are much more. Please look for the "stiky" posts. There are often very usefull informations. Sure, the moderators open some stikys "just-for-fun"... ... but many topics are realy interesting.
Some external sites can help you, too:
http://developer.windowsphone.com/Default.aspx (of course)
and
http://www.smartphonedn.com/
you can became a part of the msdn (winmo special) here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsmobile/default.aspx
When you became a good dev. You should look for 3rd party stuff like:
http://www.resco.net/developer/default.aspx
For the beginning it should be enough.
regards

You can also program in mobile java, which will make your app portable to more devices.
http://java.sun.com/javame/index.jsp

Do you want to be a ROM chef, or programmer?
Or both ?
To just program for the Windows Mobile OS, you can
grab a (free) version of Microsoft Visual Studio 2010/2008
and download the WIndows Mobile development resource kit
from them.
Then you can blast away in C#, C or .NET
If you just want to cook ROM's then look at the kitchen thread.
Look at that thread anyway

Try Visual Studio, VB.NET and the Windows Mobile SDK there it is s

Hi mates, want to ask which is the best programming language for WM? C, C++, C#, VB.Net or something else. I did use C# a lot and can do little thing with SQL Compact. But, it seems lot of the current applications are not require .Net Framework installed on WM. Are they using C++?
Also, is there anything need to be considered for WM Web Programming (such as JavaScript, CSS support)?

siamchen said:
Hi mates, want to ask which is the best programming language for WM? C, C++, C#, VB.Net or something else. I did use C# a lot and can do little thing with SQL Compact. But, it seems lot of the current applications are not require .Net Framework installed on WM. Are they using C++?
Also, is there anything need to be considered for WM Web Programming (such as JavaScript, CSS support)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep. most WM apps use C++, but even the C# apps will run as most of the ROMs contain the .NET fw by default

I have a question as well, are there any free-for-freeware frameworks for touch-friendly applications? Is there a Sense SDK?

bayowar said:
I have a question as well, are there any free-for-freeware frameworks for touch-friendly applications? Is there a Sense SDK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft has an SDK for 6.5's gesture support. I've not got around to using it yet though, so can't comment on it's quality or breadth of support.

Is there something I cant build using C only in this phones?
I mean can I build a complete rom, applications and such using only C?
thats the only lang I know so...

mr_Ray said:
Microsoft has an SDK for 6.5's gesture support. I've not got around to using it yet though, so can't comment on it's quality or breadth of support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen that, what about buttons, sliders, tabs, flickable lists and all this stuff though. I've never developed for a mobile platform and I'd imagine starting from scratch with all UI elements steepens the learning curve quite a bit.

siamchen said:
Hi mates, want to ask which is the best programming language for WM? C, C++, C#, VB.Net or something else. I did use C# a lot and can do little thing with SQL Compact. But, it seems lot of the current applications are not require .Net Framework installed on WM. Are they using C++?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are pros and cons to using managed code (C#/VB), and the same holds true about native code (C++). The former is much easier for high-level tasks, but you get less control and it may get a bit tricky when you need to access WinAPI not included in .Net CF (although there are usually ways to do it via Platform Invoke). .Net applications start slower, which may be an issue for certain tasks. Native code is (should be) faster, but a bit more complex and you don't have things like automatic garbage collection and so on. Sometimes you need a couple of lines of code in C# instead of two dozen in C++. Sometimes not. On the other hand, writing something like a graphics-heavy game in C# would be a strange endeavor. Some things are outright impossible like writing a system service, AFAIK. All in all, the pros and cons are described at length everywhere, and it's up to you to decide.
bayowar said:
I have a question as well, are there any free-for-freeware frameworks for touch-friendly applications? Is there a Sense SDK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the Development and Hacking section you'll find a C# GUI framework (it's called Manila UI Framework or something like that) made by a fellow XDAer.
bayowar said:
I've seen that, what about buttons, sliders, tabs, flickable lists and all this stuff though. I've never developed for a mobile platform and I'd imagine starting from scratch with all UI elements steepens the learning curve quite a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want non-standard UI elements it can get tricky. For standard UI it's a no-brainer. There are some third-party libraries available. In addition to the C# framework I mentioned earlier, there's Qt (a cross-platform UI framework used by Opera for all their desktop (Linux, Win and Mac) and mobile (WM and Symbian) and embedded platforms including TV set-top boxes) incarnations, Airplay SDK that's a cross-platform framework for Android, WM and iPhone, some others I can't recall right away. They may or may not be free however.

Thanks for the reply, good to know about Qt. I'm vaguely familiar with that, had now idea it found it's way to Windows Mobile.
The Manila framework is called Manila Interface SDK, at least that's the only match I found.

bayowar said:
I've seen that, what about buttons, sliders, tabs, flickable lists and all this stuff though. I've never developed for a mobile platform and I'd imagine starting from scratch with all UI elements steepens the learning curve quite a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it is not the UI but the SDK that has a steep learning curve. Besides the usual loops and if then else.. you need to know exactly which library does what and there is the confusion as there are a couple of them doing similiar things eg Messaging API. At least that is what I encountered when I first started and I agree that C++ has a huge advantage over C# or VB.net as it can interact directly with the hardware api instead going over in a big circle and sometimes, some functions can't even be achieved using vb.net!

Just install vs.net and catch up on OO by diving into vb.net.
You'll be fine coding in either C# or VB.NET, the BCL for Ce is leaner than that for full blown windows but still very usable. After installing vs2008 don't forget to update the default install to wm6.5 sdk.

siamchen said:
Hi mates, want to ask which is the best programming language for WM? C, C++, C#, VB.Net or something else. I did use C# a lot and can do little thing with SQL Compact. But, it seems lot of the current applications are not require .Net Framework installed on WM. Are they using C++?
Also, is there anything need to be considered for WM Web Programming (such as JavaScript, CSS support)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi mate,
I reckon c++ so u dont need to redisttibute the framework and your app will run fast, but if u want to write apps with db access net framework is the easy way, I'm in Sydney and I do c++ so PM if u need some help,
cheers,
Hlov

BTW is there some good app for programming in my HD2? taking my work on the go? something like visual studio mobile version?