Related
Hi to all,
i'm new in xda\xda2 world...and i would like to develop under it? What i need for developing? What cpu type\model it have?
Well.. The About and Device Information screens in the System Settings menu should take care of your questions..
But if you're lazy, the XDA typically runs PocketPC 2002 on a StrongArm CPU, and the XDA II PocketPC 2003 (Windows Mobile Edition) on an Intel XScale (which is backwards compatible with ARM).
If you simply visit www.pocketpc.com and click on developers you'll end up at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/information/devprograms/default.mspx
Where you can even order a free DVD-Rom with the PocketPC SDKs, compilers etc (they will charge shipping and handling, at a freakishly high rate). You can also download that stuff.
However, you will need Visual Studio .NET as well, which is not a free download (in fact, even the academic version will set you back more than EUR 100).
I've not ventured into it myself yet, so it's quite possible you can actually do without Visual Studio (as the compilers themselves can be downloaded). Also, there's a version of gcc for pocketpc.
Any one developing for pocketpc who wants to chip in here? (I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).
You only need Visual Studio .NET if you want to create .NET applications. If you are just programming in C++, I'd highly recommend downloading Embedded Visual Studios 3 and 4 and get the appropriate SDKs (all of which are free). At least, that's what I use.
What about Java Midlets?
I am thinking on writing a couple of apps for PPC, but going into VS.NET might be too deep for me. I also want to extend those later for palm and maybe desktop. No hardware specific stuff so I thought I might get away with Java which I am pretty good at.
Does anyone have anything to say - pros / cons? How midlets are on O2 in general - fast / slow, too much memory or processing power? Please share.
Why don't you get down to c++? Fast, small, general support...
--------------
У нас сегодня день вежливости, так что вы просто идите за мной и никуда не сворачивайте!
Some day
Good old C++. Too many years with Java - softened my mind... Undoubtedly C++ is the best way to go in terms of speed and size. Lets see what people say. :idea:
I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?
i read that visualstudio .net 2005 will be able to make pocketpc applications in all languages not just .net applications like 2003
not sure about how you get started with vb.net since vb is very evil and nasty
but with c++ mfc and c# .net you start out with a form and there you can place components on it and program what functions they have
but if you want to make games and stuff which dont use normal windows stuff then you are better off programming them in c++ directly for the arm platform
I use Embedded VC++ and MFC as it's far tighter/smaller than .net. Purists can go completely Win32(ce) native and avoid MFC altogether but MFC does make development a good deal easier without the bloat of .net (not to mention how slow it is..).
Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications
I've been programming in Visual .NET (VB.NET more specifically), but even after installing the SDK I have no idea where to start? When creating a project, I don't see any new project type for Pocket PC applications ? In fact, what else do I need to do if I want to program in VB.NET ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have VS.NET 2003 you don't even need the SDK.
just File-> New->Project
on the left column "Project Types" choose your language and on the right click the "Smart Device Application"
Basically is like any windows application but less possibilities and if you want to create any serious application you'll have to do a lot of optimization and native coding.
Good luck
Books?
I'm also interested in programming with Embedded VC++...and was wondering if anyone know of books out there I can pick up that will help my learning process a little quicker. Its been a long time since i coded in C++ and need to refresh.
The part I'm really need help is the basic parts ...like how to get things started.
I'm confident that once I get started i'll start to remember my C++ coding.
I'm downloading the Embedded VC++ from Microsoft as I type this post ...hope it wont be too hard to understand how to create a simple "hello world" program for PPC devices
Also if anyone knows a good web sites with code samples ...please PM or post the URL, I'v seen some but not all that great
Thank You
Sometimes less is more.......
zendrui said:
Same thing for me. C++ with EVC tools. No mfc for me (a little purist and feel it gives a clearer code )
Best way to have samller and optimize applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As mentioned above, if you drop ATL, MFC .NET and all the implied baggage they have to bring with them to work, you are left with the old WIN32 programming model. This is now considered very 'old hat', but if all your program uses are API's in WIN32's kernel.dll, user.dll, gdi.dll etc...... i.e. the very primative windows stuff, then it is possible to write an application that will run on any version of Windows Mobile. This application will be pretty simple, but the compiled .EXE file targetted at an ARM4xx model will run on almost any Pocket PC, without any other files. (i.e. The single APP.EXE file will run on any upwardly compatable system, no fancy implementation project to create or run, just copy the release '.exe' file to the target machine, and it will run!). These days 99%+ mobile PDA's run ARM class processors. The manufacturers call them by their own processor IDs but under the hood they are all the same.
To create an app that will run on the Mobile 5/6 platform without looking like previous Mobile 2002/3/SE apps, limit the Main menu items to two. This will make sure they appear either side of the input icon, as menu items. More than two and the Mobile 5/6 menu items appear as 2002/3/SE apps in the old control bar style.
wfberg said:
(I'd like to toy around with programming a bit on PPC - regretably it doesn't have a built-in scripting language like epoc32 has/had).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as scripting goes... I'm a big fan of Mortscript. It's so simple... I guess I'm a little purist myself
Basic 4PPC
Basic for Pocket PC, has anyone tried this. I went to the site and it only cost around 40.00 US. I've worked with "basic" before and the progs were usually bloated and sluggish. Wonder if this would be the same.
i have started developing in ppl language the program name is PIDE from ariana soft..its very easy..it also lets u make games
ive created my first clock in it
Hi all,
I am developing applications in C# using Visual Studio 2003.
While my need to create some specific applications, it seems some applications seems virtually impossible to develop using C#.
For instance, I cannot create a SIP (soft-input panel) using C#, and I haven't found a way to develop a today plugin using C#. These applications seems only to be developed using C++.
I know C# is a managed code, as opposed to C++ which isn't by default.
Are the differences between C# and C++ applications -- managed vs. unmanaged code -- the reason I cannot develop a today plugin or SIP, or is there a way I can use C# to achieve this?
I'm using C# since it somewhat resembles the Java language I'm familiar with, and learning C++ would take a while.
Any thoughts and help would be much appreciated!
With kind regards
the syntax is not all that different between java c# and c++ even even ansi c
suppose some difference is what platform you would be programming to
maybe .net which i asume most c# programmers use cant make todayplugins
not sure
you can program .net from c++ aswell if you like or you could program win stk directly or miniMFC
a language is just syntax and speed difference in some cases
how much learning is needed is all about the platform you are developing to
Rudegar said:
the syntax is not all that different between java c# and c++ even even ansi c
suppose some difference is what platform you would be programming to
maybe .net which i asume most c# programmers use cant make todayplugins
not sure
you can program .net from c++ aswell if you like or you could program win stk directly or miniMFC
a language is just syntax and speed difference in some cases
how much learning is needed is all about the platform you are developing to
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, applications created with C# must use the .NET Compact Framework if I understand correctly, and since C# (or .NET) applications require the use of a Common Language Runtime, I can image some applications simply cannot be developed.
BTW, the platform I'm targeting to is my much beloved MDA-II
What I'd like to know is, is it possible to create a Today Plugin or a SIP using C#? Or should I switch to C++?
yes i know you mean xda2 but i ment platform as in .net or mfc or pure win stk
not sure if it's possible to make today stuff and other shell stuff from .net
but what i'm trying to say is that you can make .net from c++ aswell and there the difference between c# and c++ are not all that great
if you have to do pure win stk it's a whole other ball game as in how much they are the same
you could ask zendrui the maker of phonezenprofile he's programming in the pure stk and he prob knows if you can assess those today and shell stuff from anywhere else
Ok, thanks for the tip, I will ask him
Sorry but I never looked on the c# as all the applications developped with .net for PocketPC are slower and as I well know c++
So I don't know if it is possible to create a today plugin or access SIP with c# sorry ...
But if you know a little c++ you can get many examples how to create easily a today plugin and for sure access SIP is really really easy with c++ but I suppose that it should be easy to with c# ...
Link to SIP in C#
This might help you out. I just googled for "pocketpc sip c#".
http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/Code/2002/May/SIPOnPocketPC.asp
D.
Hmm that article just gives you information about showing the SIP from your C# app.
I have a feeling, it's going to be easiest to write a SIP in C++, mainly because you're implementing COM interfaces, but also because it's so fiddly and the only examples I've ever seen are in C++.
Best one I've seen is here (also covers today screen items):
http://www.woodslane.com.au/net/titles/samp0735614431.html
.NET CF
A more general question. I have just started looking at using C# (I too am a Java developer) and Visual Studio .NET 2003 to develop apps for the Pocket PC. Help & samples in VS.NET are rather sketchy, and info on MSDN websites is very scattered. What are some good resources to get started? Any books recommended? Any good web resources?
What about MFC?? Can we include MFC on a today plugin DLL?
Because at least CString would sure come handy!! :?
Hello everybody!
I recently went through a learning experience writing a today plug-in and found out there's nothing to it. Basically it’s a dll that needs to export 2 (1 if no options) functions and create a simple window.
You can certainly use MFC, and MSDN has an article on how to create a today plug-in using .NET: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnppcgen/html/TodayScrn.asp
As for sip, that is more complicated, sorry I can't help you there.
I tried the c# today pluggin that microsoft made to try and show their language is usefull. It needed two seperate projects, one in vis studio 2003 and one in evc. i got it to work but it was way too complicated. As levenum said, its not that hard in c++. The responsiveness of their example was very slow compared to native ones. The up side was that it created a today item that lets you display data like pie. I did not experiment other than to modify the background colour to see if it worked.
I think the compact framework is a bit too compact. The features don't help enough with device specific programming, but its good for a lot of other stuff like gui's.
Is there any other way to creat today plugin application instead of using C++ and .net host. Is .net 2.0 support it?
Is there any other way to creat today plugin application instead of using C++ and .net host. Is .net 2.0 support it?
I think this topic is pretty much dead, but the answer is that C# does not support exported DLL functions. Since Today plugins and new SIPs require libraries with exported functions, it's not possible to write either entirely in C#. You have to at least have the C library to export the functions, and that's why the MS article goes about it that way.
This class will show/hide the sip in C#:
Code:
public class Sip
{
[System.Runtime.InteropServices.DllImport("coredll.dll")]
private static extern int SipShowIM(SIPStatus i);
private enum SIPStatus
{
SIPF_OFF = 0,
SIPF_ON
};
/// <summary>
/// Show the SIP.
/// </summary>
public static void Show()
{
SipShowIM(SIPStatus.SIPF_ON);
}
/// <summary>
/// Hide the SIP.
/// </summary>
public static void Hide()
{
SipShowIM(SIPStatus.SIPF_OFF);
}
}
...anyone knows where to get it?
thanx
buzz
Take a look here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/
dcs,
Please correct me if I'm wrong. With .net you have a very thin client on the phone that relys on internet connectivity to a server to get most of its functionality, correct???
Because of this it didn't seem that useful for the phone becuase the app would be useless without a GPRS connection.
Thanks,
Ok, this might have been a direct question to dcs but I'll take a shot at it anyway..
When .NET framework is installed on the device, it does not require any connection to the internet what so ever..
Just like Java..
Many java applets are used on/in web pages, but you could allso run applets directly on the device..
With java, this requires a "Virtual Machine"..
What's great with .NET is that a person can very easily integrate the application with services hosted on the internet..
It's very flexible in this manner..
10 out of 7???? Multiple personalities!
10/7
This is the logicall flaw that many people actually don't see..
paulmc said:
dcs,
Please correct me if I'm wrong. With .net you have a very thin client on the phone that relys on internet connectivity to a server to get most of its functionality, correct???
Because of this it didn't seem that useful for the phone becuase the app would be useless without a GPRS connection.
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET in its entirety embraces many different deployment models.
The .NET Framework essential embraces the PC world, and the .NET Compact Framework is a subset of the .NET Framework designed specifically for mobile devices.
Clients on the PPC that run within the .NET Compact Framework are 'rich' clients, in that they run code on the device and have device resources available to them. They are not restricted to being Internet applications and can perform any tasks on the PPC such as Today screen applications, self contained data applications, etc.
The only client on the PPC when using an ASP.NET application is the web browser, with all the processing taking place on the server, and all data being held on the server.
Some facts about .NET (imho&offtopic)
.NET & .NETCF
When MS started with its ".NET compaign" they were saying that .NET is a platform-independent framework... It means the following: once program is developed it will run on any platform (unix, winxp, wince, os/2 and etc...) But what we see??? We see the new .NET framework - .Net Compact Framework! Another framework and another need for developers to re-write their programs for this target platform. What are the gains for the end-users? No gains, only losses. Many software developers were cought on platform-independence declared by M$ and have developed software for .NET thinking that their software is cross-platform. But in fact, when NETCF was declared everyone had realized "cross-platformness" and had understood that many end-users will not see .NET programs running at .NETCF
.NETCF
.NET Compact is heavily dependent on core functions written on C++. Without these functions you can't do any Today Screen applications and other such basic development. Thus, we are required to refer to C++ functions for our programming and the concept of "manageable" code is pissed out. As for end-users, they continue to suffer from unmanageable code errors such as buffer over/underruns and other memory tricks even though the software that they bought is written on .NETCF which in its turn shall be the sign of security of application
ASP.NET & PocketIE
ASP.NET uses extended document object model (DOM) for its client-side functionality. But this model is not well-implemented on Pocket version of IE. Thus, end-users on PPC will have some problems with full-scale asp.net web-applications that require pre-posting processing on client-side when dealing with scarce resources (slow inet connection and etc)
Finally, dNET & .NETCF are really SLOW as any interpretation language indeed and are not well distributed among other platforms (Palm, Unix and even Win98/ME!)
Developers, are you still believe in .NET perspectives? ;-)))
I was not extolling .NET - merely answering a question.
Most of your comments are based on developer frustrations - which I share. For the end-user, what I have stated is true.
.NET
dcs said:
I was not extolling .NET - merely answering a question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't take this on your part, this is for info only
buzz_lightyear said:
...anyone knows where to get it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PB 4.20 and 5.0 trial versions can be freely downloaded from Microsoft (about 1-2Gb each). But you cannot use it to create a ROM for our device, because it does not contain necessary BSP. The only useful thing - is WinCE partial source code coming with it.
@mamaich
THANX mamaich! That was exactly what I meant, however I still cannot find the download link...
My intention was to rebuild some of the SE ROM apps for WM2003 not SE.
THANX
buzz
Try here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...c1-623b-481b-83b8-031129cf1594&DisplayLang=en
and here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/downloads/ce/
buzz_lightyear said:
My intention was to rebuild some of the SE ROM apps for WM2003 not SE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PB 4.2 does not have PocketPC 2003 SE BSPs. It contains only several native WinCE 4.2 applications. They can be recompiled, but would look ugly (for example look at this - http://mamaich.kasone.com/ppc/mspdfview.rar). And Platform Builder 5.0 does not have BSPs that produce ARM binaries. All configurations I've checked produced only THUMB code.
I'm sure I can learn a lot of this at microsoft.com --
Which compiler and add-ons do you install to get started with writing apps in VB and VC?
Are the only tools VB.Net and VC# ?
Phoney said:
I'm sure I can learn a lot of this at microsoft.com --
Which compiler and add-ons do you install to get started with writing apps in VB and VC?
Are the only tools VB.Net and VC# ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should forget .NET under Pocket PC...it is painfully slow. The only option is C++, which for you can use either the free Embedded Visual C++ 4, or Visual Studio 2005.
Thanks!
And does this mean that I should forget about using Visual Basic for anything as well?
Phoney said:
Thanks!
And does this mean that I should forget about using Visual Basic for anything as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed... eVB is not supported on WM5 anyways (at least not officially...and eVB is not too powerful either).
Agree with KTamas! For now, VS2005 is the BEST tool perhaps.
is ws2005 also mfc and win32 stk or only .net like 2003 was ?
Hi Rudegar!
VS2005 works with MFC and Win32 for both PC and mobile devices. It also claims to support WM2003 SDKs but I was unable to compile an exe with it that would run on a 2003 device (although I tried adding WM2003 SDK to an existing WM5 project so maybe I just go the settings wrong)
Yes, vs2005 do support pure WIN32 programming in WM2003, I wrote two or more app for PPC-6600, it works fine.
Isn't C# compiled during first execution (it takes time, so startup is long) and then it's as fast as C++?
Marx2 said:
Isn't C# compiled during first execution (it takes time, so startup is long) and then it's as fast as C++?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It starts up slowly cause it has to load the Compact Framework into the memory. .NET (therefore C# included) apps are compiled while they are running, they are running on a JIT-compiler (Just-in-Time).
Instead of MFC, I recommend using the Windows Template Library (WTL) -- it's a set of C++ template classes for Windows UI elements, and is CE-friendly. I've used it on big Windows for many years; IMHO it's much better than MFC.
Isn't effect of JIT compiler cached?
I think JVM can do that. There is also an option to compile permamentaly to exe (this lacks portability)
Can I develop software to WM5 but no .Net frameworks ?
Of course!
In fact it is much better to use native code on WM devices because it is faster and takes up less resources.
If you already know C / C++ go to MS site and download the free eMbedded C++ 4 and the Pocket PC 2003 SDK (don't mind the OS version).
Also if you have VS 2005 download the WM 5 SDK and create a smart device project in C++.
1 cool think about .net though is i had a sudoko or whatever it's called
program for pda and the same exe workd on pc too
but all in all .net is a slow as java though on pocketpc the .net maybe better implemented then the java vm's
levenum said:
Of course!
In fact it is much better to use native code on WM devices because it is faster and takes up less resources.
If you already know C / C++ go to MS site and download the free eMbedded C++ 4 and the Pocket PC 2003 SDK (don't mind the OS version).
Also if you have VS 2005 download the WM 5 SDK and create a smart device project in C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi levenum,
i have VS 2005 and WM 5 sdk installed.
well my problem is C++ which i never read seriously but i have a good
working base of C on which i had developed two simple game.
How can i implement the code in VS2005/WM5SDK with minimal
interaction of C++ ?
How can i get working base on VS2005/WM5SDK?
Can u suggest me a tutorial or any free book?
with c vs. c++ it's really much the same ++ is just an expansion with nativ class and other object orientented features
any c program should be able to compile using a c++ compiler
but i doubt you can write CE programs or even windows programs without using any kind of class related code
heck you cant even do that in basic (evil language) or c#
the internet is soo full of free programming stuff it's not even funny
buying paper books is a thing of the past imho unless you want to read while on the toilet and dont have a laptop or pda
http://www.brpreiss.com/books/opus6/
good googling for more
Actually, except for M$ nasty invention called "COM" there is nothing in Windows API that requires C++.
In fact I rarely use classes unless I am building an MFC app to save time.
Also, (can't remember the link for the life of me) but there is some way of accessing class objects in pure C using some struct tricks.
So basically you can leave fine without the ++, but you may need to work a little harder.
You should just create a basic smart device project. VS will generate a "hello world" app for you and you can see how it works. Moving from C to C++ should be very easy.
It's C# that is no longer a real programming language
P.S.: Did you know most of Win CE DLL are actually written with ANSI C?
levenum said:
Actually, except for M$ nasty invention called "COM" there is nothing in Windows API that requires C++.
In fact I rarely use classes unless I am building an MFC app to save time.
Also, (can't remember the link for the life of me) but there is some way of accessing class objects in pure C using some struct tricks.
So basically you can leave fine without the ++, but you may need to work a little harder.
You should just create a basic smart device project. VS will generate a "hello world" app for you and you can see how it works. Moving from C to C++ should be very easy.
It's C# that is no longer a real programming language
P.S.: Did you know most of Win CE DLL are actually written with ANSI C?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanx,
i had already compleated "hello world"
and C++ is really not much away from me
actually i only have a single problem:
How can i get working base on VS2005/WM5SDK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i think it is more exactly Win CE API knowledge which i require.
How Do I Start Cooking Roms
I Know A Bit Of C++ ,how Do I Start Cooking My Own Roms
tawanda: first off - your question has nothing to do with this thread, if you have an unrelated question you should start a new thread BUT search first to make sure it was not asked and answered a 1000 times!
As for your question - cooking ROMs is not programming - it helps to know a programming language but what you really need to do is familiarize your self with the tools used to pack and unpack as well as dump and flash ROM images.
Note that these tools are different for different devices or at the very least need to be configured differently.
I recommend you start by reading the WiKi.
After some years of absence from the programming world I think now I've time enough to start again. I'm familiar (but a bit rusty) with assembler, C and C++, but I think I have start more or less from the beginning.
I already installed Visual Studio 2005 and the WM05 and WM06 SDK. Now I'm not sure whether I should use C# or C++. The big difference is that C# needs compact framework?
Your question is mainly a matter of personal preference.
Here is my opinion on C++ vs. C#:
C++ advantages:
- Native code is faster than .NET
- Easier access to Win32 APIs
- Ability to write system components like keyboards and today plugins.
C# advantages:
- Saves on coding time
- Allows use of many .NET CF components to quickly accomplish complex tasks.
Please note that I am bias. I hate .NET and want nothing to o with it. Specially on mobile devices that do not have the processing power to spare for the .NET overhead.
I second levenum's recommendations -- I've been programming big Windows for 15 years and have managed to avoid .NET. Of course most of what I do these days is NDIS driver programming, so it's mostly straight C, with C++ for supporting user-mode code.
Avoid MFC -- it adds a bit of overhead which is OK for big Windows, but not for WM. If you're going to use a C++ framework, I highly recommend using ATL/WTL -- it's what MFC wants to be when it grows up.
I'm looking at my visual studio 2005 and wanting to covert my c# application to C++...
I clicked on a new project and i'm looking at the various options in Visual C++ for Smart Devices. There are a few to choose from... how do I know which one I want to choose?
ATL Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device Application
Win32 Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device ActiveX Control
MFC Smart Device DLL
Can you guys tell me the difference between those options and which I should use to develop for WM6?
Thanks,
Derek
imho then a good pro of c# vs. c++ is the nice object lib that .net give
mfc is pretty crap in every respect and if you do pure stk
it's more work to make it object orientated
"ATL Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device Application
Win32 Smart Device Project
MFC Smart Device ActiveX Control
MFC Smart Device DLL"
depend on what you want to do
i mean DLL is not a program but a lib that other programs can access
but then today items are dlls
win32 is pure win32 stk where you pretty much have to do all the prev work to get your application up and running
mfc is microsoft foundation clases it's an somewhat dated object lib from ms which makes making an application faster it pretty much give you a dialog and let you place components such as button on it
ActiveX is an somewhat evil internet programming platform
atl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Template_Library
you can prob find more info about everything you want more info about
from wikipedia too
thanks for the info rudegar!