Related
Anyone know what this about?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/
link to the xda thread about it?
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
yakky said:
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
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Maybe you should file a class-action suit against the video driver class-action people for taking HTC's time and attention away from fixing real problems...
Actually the mogul does have video playback issues with constant stutering and pausing. From what I've heard from 6700 users video playback is much much smoother (the way it should be). I don't know if it calls for a law suit but hey at least they got htc's attention and now their releasing new drivers that will supposedly fix the video playback issues.
bakntyme said:
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
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Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
SINNN said:
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
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Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
bakntyme said:
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
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I feel the need to address this... despite not having been in the original exchange. I can accept that you have a differing viewpoint from us. I refuse to be called a "litigation-crazed" person. I also think you need to get your facts straight before you pass judgment.
The simple fact is - we want the functionality that our devices were advertised with. Many of us did our research and realized that the MSM7500 is a POWERFUL chip. The video acceleration is top-tier, and everything else seemed good too. Then HTC decided to not include a driver for video acceleration. Also, before someone mentions that HTC has claimed(but never in an official press release) that the MSM7500 might NOT include the video acceleration... When have you known a huge manufacturer(nVidia, AMD, Intel, ATi, Qualcomm, etc) to name two differing devices the same name? They don't. they generally qualify them(e.g. 8800 series nVidia cards can be 8800 GT, GTX, GTS, etc.) What HTC did is akin to Dell selling you an Inspiron notebook with an nVidia 8800GTS card inside, then telling you that they didn't include drivers. Oh, and don't forget that nVidia won't support the card, since it's up to the manufacturer(Dell) to supply the drivers. Microsoft won't do it since it's Dell's problem. Dell won't do it because it isn't cost effective. (Suspend the reality of the situation for the analogy, though, please) Now you're left with a $300 piece of video hardware that can't be used because nobody wanted to provide a driver. Go software acceleration! That's the issue we're having. The phones WERE advertised as having the MSM7500(or 7200) which according to everything I've seen both have video acceleration. HTC just dropped the ball.
Now, about us writing our own drivers... That would be difficult without getting a bunch of information from Microsoft, HTC and Qualcomm, which they won't release. If you don't know why, look up open source video drivers for Linux, and you'll understand the pain. It's not a baseless suit - however I don't think that class action is the way to go. I think we need to work WITH MS, HTC, and Qualcomm to come up with a driver. Period. Don't let up the pressure until we have that.
I am sorry, but when your advocacy group starts out with a name like "HTCClassAction", and names its website "htcclassaction.org", it shows itself as not interested in getting the claimed result, but instead, despite any protestations from the group, interested in filing a class-action lawsuit from the beginning. That is "litigation-crazed". Was "htcvideodrivers.org" not available? I am sure that, if you wanted to, given a few minutes you could come up with several non-litigation-oriented group and website names. If you were the product manager for the 6800 at HTC, and you heard of the issues raised by the group HTCClassAction, would you think, "Here is a group of users that wants to work with us to resolve what they see as a legitimate issue?"
Speaking of facts...have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included? I would bet that HTC never stated that the 6800 would include every feature technologically possible with the chipset. It has the capability of supporting an 8MP camera, but they didn't include that either. Another lawsuit? I am sure there are other things the chipset would be CAPABLE of that were not included. If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?
Realize that modern class-action lawsuits are almost always settled for lots of money to the attorneys and a pittance to the class. Remember the Verizon Moto 710 Bluetooth class action? It was settled as usual...the attorneys got somewhere around $6 million; users got $25 if they wanted to keep the 710 and stay with Verizon, a waived ETF and a refund if they wanted to leave Verizon, and a credit toward another device if they wanted to stay with Verizon but not keep the 710. They did not get additional Bluetooth profiles. And if this goes to trial, the courts will never order a manufacturer to provide technology, and support for it, that the manufacturer does not want to provide. IF you could prove false advertising, and I do not think that you could, you might get a small refund or credit toward another phone. If that is what you want, just sell the device on an internet auction site and buy something else...you will probably get more that way.
sucks too that our phones dont even have the ati chip in them. my htc wizard (old school) had better video and gameplay
I don't play games much on my ppc so this problem hasn't affected me as much. However I did notice that PIE was sluggish and freaked when video playback sucked on WM and TCPMP. Most of that was avoided by using GDI on TCPMP.
The real issue here is why can't they add the driver? If it was a simple fix it probably wouldn't have been left out in the first place. Sounds to me like they ran into technical issues trying to make it work.
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
johnannie said:
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
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you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
watson540 said:
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
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Hahahahaha. Yes, we're children. Little babies, the lot of us. Anyway......
No, we shouldn't sue them for not including a tv-out jack or an 8 megapixel camera. What we are trying to achieve is driver support FOR THE INCLUDED HARDWARE. This is what most people who argue against our position fail to realize. We aren't asking them to do something crazy, like give us a better camera or a tv-out jack, or even more memory. We're asking them to SUPPORT THE HARDWARE THEY SOLD US. Gasp.
Now... I'll use an analogy for those among us who are a bit retarded. If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger, the electronic stability control system, up to 6 airbags, and the radio (all of which are included in your car, albeit only 4 airbags) - and it came with a 30-day money-back guarantee... and you drove it for 30 days and thought to yourself, "Wow, this is clearly better than last years' model" - would you return it? Probably not... That's what happened here.
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them. Now, back to our example. Now imagine you go to a car-meet-up with your new fancy car, and everyone there is talking about how <insert another fast car here> is wayyyy faster than their car, in the same conditions. You and the other owners do some research and find out that the car manufacturer didn't include software to make your supercharger work. It's just inert, sitting there looking pretty. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed that the chip in your car wasn't actually using the supercharger? Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Anyway - that's where I'm coming from at least - I don't presume to speak for anyone else though. I will say this though, watson540, you need to calm down. You're running around these forums beating on people's opinions and posts. Frankly, yours aren't much more productive. At least try to post something relevant or meaningful... or at the very least something other than "you moron, rtft" or "you moron, stop crying".
it's not really a bug its more
like a pc with the generic vga driver installed
even if the pc have a geforce
problems is that one cant get hold of the
spc driver to replace the generic
ponicg said:
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them.
...
Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
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OK, so you admit that you were very satisfied with the performance until someone said "Hey, I think they OWE US something MORE than what we got, let's SUE THEM for it?" If the device met your needs when you tested it, then you have no complaint. If it did not, you should have returned it in the 30 day return period.
As I asked you way back in this thread, but you have not yet addressed, (nor any of the other points in my previous post), "have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included?...If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?"
None of these analogies is perfect...one big flaw in yours is that you hypothesized "If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger," then switched to the car actually having a supercharger advertised: "Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger". Another is that the supercharger's existence is open and apparent to someone who looks under the hood, without requiring any research or disassembly of the vehicle. Another is that in chip manufacturing, it is usually more efficient to produce a batch of chips with all the capabilities, then use the ones you want in each device, as opposed to redesigning the chip package and retooling the production run for each combination of features desired in each application. No one could reasonably say that it was more efficient to produce a factory run of cars with all possible mechanical features (such as the supercharger in your example) included, and then only connect and use the ones desired for that model. However, auto manufacturers also sometimes utilize parts and sub-assemblies in a particular model without enabling or utilizing all of that component's capabilities, when doing so is more efficient.
Since you like automotive analogies, I will use one without resorting to calling anyone "a bit retarded": suppose that Ford announced that all 2010 Mustangs would use the new computer chip from Super Tuner Corporation, "because of its wonderful and powerful new capabilities," with no details as to what particular features would be made available. Your research into the chip on Super Tuner's website revealed that it supported superchargers, turbochargers, four-wheel drive, four-wheel steering, and nitrous fuel systems. You went in to a Ford dealer and test-drove the top-of-the-line 2010 Mustang, were impressed by its performance, and bought it. Six months later, someone pointed out that you had received none of those performance items listed above. You did not know why, but it was because Ford had internally determined pre-production that the suspension and frame would not be sufficient to provide those performance items in any model Mustang, and they did not want to re-engineer the support structure. They made no announcement about these features not being available, as they had never made any announcement about including those features. Would you join the MustangClassAction.org group? Now suppose that you had done no research prior to the purchase, and six months later discovered the information on Super Tuner's website after someone pointed out the lack to you...even less valid a complaint then, isn't it?
And further suppose that at the same time, someone else says, "I took the interior of my Mustang apart, and it has mounts for 8 speakers, and they only provided it with 4 speakers. Ford has to install 4 more speakers in every Mustang, because it has the capability of holding them!"
And another owner pulls out his factory radio, notices the output jack on the back for a subwoofer..."Where is my subwoofer? It obviously was supposed to come with my car, or they would not have included a radio that could support one and put a jack on the back of the radio to plug one in!!"
Meanwhile, another owner says "I was testing the electronic trip computer included in my Mustang, the same one included in all 2010 Mustangs, and it has the ability to calculate and display up to 55 MPG, but my Mustang only gets 23 MPG. Obviously, Ford was advertising a Mustang that would get 55 MPG and must give us that!"
Enough analogies? Would you get angrier, and call Ford arrogant, when they say, "Thank you for your business, customers, but we never said the Mustang had those capabilities, and we have no intention of retrofitting them, but we will take your opinions into account in designing our next vehicle?"
Analogies by their nature will never replicate the Titan/Mogul/6800 situation. However, we can discuss the 6800 situation itself, and I am waiting for your answer about the HTC advertisement and your not discovering the lack in the first 30 days of your device ownership.
its just bull**** when the the video playback on the 6700 is alot better than the titan. makes no sense at all and yes i feel ripped off.
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
unless you guys can come up with some previous claim by HTC that the mogul was supposed to support this specific capability of the chip, i dont see how you guys can try to force anything out of them. I'm with bakntyme on this one.
Sure its pretty crappy that they put the hardware in there and didnt support it, and im no lawyer, but it doesnt seem like they would be under any legal obligation to support the video drivers.
watson540 said:
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
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Although I appreciate the support, a more professional wording of it might help to keep from increasing the level of emotions and inflammation on this issue.
Someone else mentioned this earlier, but I hadn't seen it until just now. EDIT: the original poster: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9374284&postcount=23
Well, a note to TnT management, if you happen to read this. I didn't click "Agree", so phooey on you.
Btw, it's things like this which made me decide to never accept donations. Once I start doing that, I'm crossing over somewhere that I really don't want to go - TnT / Viewsonic, please keep that in mind.
EDIT: To Viewsonic CS -- I had two devices (one was going to be a gift to a relative, and I was going to leave TnT on it). I now have one device, and the main reason is because of that insane EULA. Specifically, section 4.1 and, to a lesser extent, 4.2. You should have a chat with that company and have them explain what the heck they were thinking.
If a larger tablet company like Archos did this, Engadget and other tech sites would roast them alive.
roebeet said:
Someone else mentioned this earlier, but I hadn't seen it until just now.
Well, a note to TnT management, if you happen to read this. I didn't click "Agree", so phooey on you.
Btw, it's things like this which made me decide to never accept donations. Once I start doing that, I'm crossing over somewhere that I really don't want to go - TnT / Viewsonic, please keep that in mind.
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One reason I bought the sears warrenty for 60 bucks. So I am not to worried if Viewsonic is going to honor their warrenty
Doesn't look that strange for a commercial products EULA. Frankly I think we all have violated EULA many times on many devices/software. I do agree that accepting donations does create a different situation, but I don't think anyone should be scared off by it. Just read a Windows EULA, or the FBI warning on a DVD, or listen to the NBA rights (or lack thereof) before any game.
They make it excessively broad so that if they elect to they can crack down on any modders (if it cuts into their bottom line) by issuing cease and desist orders. Since TapUI is still making money by including it (even if we don't use it) and we aren't modifying so much as removing it I think there is very minimal chance of legal difficulty.
Then again, stranger things have happened.
Whoever (Ok, mgmt Roebeet) decided to include TnT was either a relative, or a used car salesman. If anyone had actually used the device instead of just listening to someone talk it up in a meeting I can't see it ever being released.
And I mean no disrespect to used car salesman by comparing them to whoever sold VS on TnT.
akodoreign said:
One reason I bought the sears warrenty for 60 bucks. So I am not to worried if Viewsonic is going to honor their warrenty
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Yeah. I bought the extended warranty from Staples.
Closing - keeping for informational purposes only.
Hello,
I guess most of the People flashing WP7 on their HD2 do not have a WP7 License.
And by activating Windows Live services Microsoft gets to know your name, phone number, e-mail adress...
May Microsoft know that you do not own a WP7 device but only flashed it to your HD2?
Does nobody here believe that Microsoft could try to stop people flashing the Rom by using all legal steps possible?
What could happen? How are the possibilities for it to happen/not to happen?
What do you think?
i worried about that ...but i gave all fake information to microsft ...
I doubt microsoft would spend the time and money going after individual users just for using wp7 on their hd2. If anything, they will try to find a fix in their system to know if you have a genuine device or not and stop it from working, and I hear they have already sent a letter to a member of the dft team, which is why I don't think they officially released the rom here on xda. But it wouldn't be worth it for them to legally go after us end users... especially since we basically are using the key we got from them so we can buy apps from their app store, which is putting money in their pockets.
I doubt Microsoft will act on this. Sure, they might take some steps to make future updates more difficult to port or activate, but I doubt they will take legal action against the people running the OS.
For Microsoft, people running WP7 and activating Live services on their HD2 might even be a source of income, since they can buy stuff on the Market Place. I'm pretty sure they will conveniently count all LEO7 users the next time they brag about WP7's market share
Still, handset manufacturers will probably be less happy. If you can run WP7 on your HD2, there's not much incentive to buy a new phone with practically the same hardware just for the OS.
What could happen?
Maybe Microsoft will bring hundreds of users to trial and sentence them to death
No seriously, just imagine the huge effort to get a single user not to use the DFT WPH. This also would most probably result in bad newspaper articles against M$.
WPH is a thing were in my opinion ms should stop trying to be better or harder than appple and finding a middle-way between android and, you know, jailPhone.
Ah, back on topic.. i think nothing serious will happen, maybe ms tries to talk to the devs like they did with chevronWP7, but you wont be sentenced to death nor go to jail or something...
by using a pirate windows, M$ can know more info about you (even your naked foto), but have you ever heared someone be charged with pirate windows with no commercial use?
M/S could use legal action about copywrite theft but it would do is put someone already using a WinMo phone and trying to use a WP7 phone from leaving M/S forever. That would mean quite a few HD2 folks, when deciding about their next phone would blank out M/S.
M/S want WP7 to be a big success and the only way it will be big is if it gets a load of apps developed for it. And the only way it will get the iphone and android developers to make a WP7 app is if there is a big market for it. Now if M/S quote the number of WP7 phones that have been sold they will get a lot lot less than the number of activation licences for WP7 - now what number do you think M/S would want to broadcast? Yes they could exaggerate the number, but the real figure would get out.
Since Apple get a proportion of any apps sold, then no doubt M/S would go along the same lines, and this money would more than make up for the development costs.
The WP7 market share is well below ipohne o/s, Android, Symbian and Blackberry.
There are several possibilities... I think one thing is for sure: soon, they'll stop giving keys without IMEI or proof of purchase. I doubt they just ignore the issue, thinking of apps sales.
The lightest thing they'll do is ban all the keys given since yesterday. Some legit folks will be affected, but they just have to contact Microsoft. Microsoft might try to reach customers who asked for a key, so they confirm the possession of a legit WP7 device.
Can MS have access to the HD2 IMEI? Can they "ban" something besides being able to enter the Market?
If we consider lawsuits, a question arises: will they sue everyone who asked for a key or only those who've used it? Lawyers are expensive, but they are filthy rich!
So now we have a panic room in XDA.
Why are people afraid ? Did you still your HD2? Did you still your key? Will the LiVe services give you ilegitm money or pay app for free?
No I'm not a tief, I just ask a key that allowed that I can try a new WM SO on my WM Device I have just payed the license.
And MS have said to us, we can't have WP7S because of 3 keys issues, but now MS can be glad because we solve that issue for their.....it was MS that could pay some money for our development.
Comeone have you or no a WM Device, with licenses payed when you buy the HD2? I think yes, because I pay a lot of money for my HD2 WM Device.
An Alternative View...
I can understand why some are worrying about this but MS tend to go after larger organisations and even then have been known to be surprisingly reasonable - certainly when compared to the Adobe and Oracle sharks - providing people are trying to true up.
So I doubt they would go after individuals - if they were that litigious there is no way they would dish out activation codes without a few checks and balances.
But here's the other view; up until about 24 hours ago I hated WP7 with a passion. it seemed like a half-assed retrograde step from 6.5.5 and I was sore at MS for selling out to the Apple business model.
I don't eat humble pie too often, but I'm just about to - WP7 is pretty good and it may even be a keeper. It's lively, reasonably good fun and works quite nicely. I even think that Marketplace is as good as and perhaps even better than the App Store - I was surprised how many apps it had, including good quantities of free ones and although App Store must have more, many of them are utter rubbish. The fact that Marketplace lets you try before you buy is a massive plus and should allow users to filter out the rubbish.
Had it not been possible to get the phone activated and were it not for the good XDA-ers (and others) who have helped to unlock the device I wouldn't even have tried it, but when most of one's personal objections are removed, it becomes worth a look at least. My only major gripe at present is the lack of a decent Sat Nav.
So whether they meant to or not, MS have probably ensured that my next device will be a WP7 device and I would have said there was more chance of me eating my own face than doing that up until very recently. And that's without the money I have spent at Marketplace today and what I will spend in future.
Sense on the part of MS - unlikely. Coincidence and a loophole that will be closed soon - probably. Humble pie for tea? Definitely.
well Microsoft UK have stopped giving out codes and ask you to call HTC instead. i cant see Microsoft proceeding with legal as it would seem to be more hassle. i think they will start asking for more information about your phone when you ask for a code
IMO, why would they go so far as to go after individual users??? I believe they might contact DFT at the most. I mean, dont they want as much consumers using and experiencing their OS as possible, suscribing to Zune? Purchasing their apps???? I mean they should see this as more users getting to know and love WP7 and attracting more developers (since a lot of people hacking to these measures might be devs.) And maybe it will lead to users wanting a WP7 device as their next phone after being so pleased with the experience on their HD2... I mean, i doubt this would put a dent on WP7 sales overall since we are such a small # of users doing this. Just make it harder to get the code, and publically say "that they dont encourage/reccomend this and to get a real WP7 device yadda yadda yadda..."
Plus, we already have a license to use one of their OS's (WM6.5) so i bet they can be a bit more easy on us than to say... a port to an Android device
just a thought...
Didn't we already have a topic like this?
I think we got enough of an answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10601038&postcount=16
how legal/illegal this might be I am of the belief that microsoft is smart enough to not waste money by going after all us individuals. I do believe that they might try to block us from using wp7 by applying new securityfeatures just like apple does with jailbreak though As said previously MS just stopped giving out keys in the UK and even though they would try to check then your phone would show up as a HD7. If they dig deeper they may be able to see that you really do not own a HD7, but again i do not believe they are willing to spend that much time.
Danation said:
Didn't we already have a topic like this?
I think we got enough of an answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10601038&postcount=16
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Click to collapse
good enough for me if thats the case LMAO
May be we should try to write the public letter to Microsoft with request to give us a possibility to buy a license for wp7? Why they allow to upgrade XP to W7 and don't allow to upgrade WM6.5->WP7?
I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?
Righteous Joe said:
I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you read this? Doesn't sound right to be honest, not sure how rooting a tablet would differ in a legal sense from rooting a phone, they are near enough the same device after all. Ultimately it is your device that you own so you are free to do with it as you wish, its not as if you're rooting will have a major impact on anyone else. Unless you are caught installing pirate apps which would be considered as illegal.
Writing "I read [...]" and then not following up with a source means you completely lack credibility
Maybe you are referring to the decision cited in these sources
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/25/3556740/copyright-dmca-jailbreak-unlock-mod-ruling
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...pyright-protection-systems-for-access-control
Take your time and read these sources
Also take your time to read up on material by senior xda members on the difference between rooting your device and unlocking your bootloader. It basically renders your "illegal to root" statement completely invalid.
Moving back to the Nexus 7, although the ruling is vague as #@!$ when it comes to tablets, your not forcibly breaking open the bootloader; its practically an on/off switch on the N7--Google is not coming after you.
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Jailbreaking is illegal for iPad.
But unlocking and rooting a Nexus 7 is a whole different story. You don't need a exploit, thus you are not breaking any protection, that is why it is legal.
At least in the EU.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
There is a further distinction that can be drawn. In the case of an Android tablet it is using an OS that is in effect free of any restrictions - so you can "copy the book, change it and publish it, provided you acknowledge the source", contrast this with Microsoft and Apple ......sue,damages etc.
CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are incorrect good sir. The jaillbreaking exemption, which is no longer valid, didn't come about from a legal challenge. It was granted by the Librarian of Congress under the normal review process that takes place every three years. Furthermore, rooting phones for purposes of installing and operating legally obtained software is also exempted.
To address the OP, there's a lot of FUD going around about rooting tablets. The factual reality is that absolutely nothing at all has changed. Rest assured that, contrary to the sensationalism from some, the sky is in no danger of falling.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
If rooting a tablet (tablet computer) is illegal, then why don't we get only user account on windows (Administrator account locked) and when we install Ubuntu, why are we not only provided with our user folder and don't have access to anything else? It's exactly the same. I don't know why Android, as basically another one of oh-so-many Linux distros would be the only one, where you are not aloud to access root folders? Linux is open source, and it is your right to be provided with root access.
And since the purpose of root on Android is not installing cracked apps (you can sideload them with enabling 'outer sources'), I see absolutely no reason, why wouldn't it be legal.
Is editing your BIOS settings on PC legal? Again, I don't see why different rules would apply to desktop then to smaller version of PC (which smartphones pretty much are).
You bought the device, it's yours. Even if you decide to take it to another carrier, you paid them, you accepted the contract, you pay penalty in case you cancel the contract sooner. Just because I bought a car in Germany, doesn't mean it's suddenly illegal to drive it in Slovenia.
iOS is different issue. It's not open source, but again I don't see why jailbreaking would be illegal. Of course, installing cracked apps is different, but that's illegal anywhere.
This kind of garbage bugs be to no end... If I buy product A, then I should be able to do what ever I want to product A how ever I want, in regards to electronics. I bought the device, and no judge is going to tell me I can not unlock/root/etc it.
Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.
gnustomp said:
Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.
AFAinHD said:
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.
when google comes after me for supporting their os with a law suit for changing my devices gui via root would be the end of days. So, yeah won't happen. sony and microsoft just ban people and their mac ip on their console i'd assume if they ever did do anything, they could ban you from market?
I Am Marino said:
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.
AFAinHD said:
There is no reason why you should not support them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I see at least one reason, (which of course is valid only to some apps, not all of them), and that is usualy true to big games only:
- how long have you today to request reffunds for apps you do not like / want / can not use? 15 minutes? or is it even shorter time now? (I do not know how it is now, sorry, I only use free/ad-supported apps now)
- how long does it takes for you to download 2GB of app data? For me it is definitly a LOT longer time that 15 minutes...
- which one of these (above mentioned) apps offer some kind of trial or limited demo or something? How can you try such apps to find out whether you like it or not ?
Can you see the reason for why not to support such apps? Or at least in the first place? Of coure that it is better (for many reasons) to buy the app in the end if you like it. But you can not tell that if you can not evaluate it.
And you are wrong that these apps cost lest than $1 and thus are cheap (or at least I understand that this was something you were triing to say), most of such apps cost $5-$15, and that can be realy a lot of money if you are not from US, just because you earn $15 per hour does not mean everyone does, there are countries where people works whole day or even week for $15.
Oh, and just to be clear: I do not thing that pirating software is good thing, but sometimes it is the only way how to evaluate something. And you should be allowed do do that, right? Or would you buy a car without (at least) triing to sit in it?
All right, all right, we can just preted that the apps (or game or music or anything) which looks like we want (or need) it does not exists, but to be honest: Can you realy do that? Especially when there is no similar replacement? Or would you just happily pay any price the DEV asks, hoping that it will be usefull to you?
And one more thing:
Lot of people here is stating that court or local law or anyone forbids/encourages something - well this kind of information is totally useless if you forget to tell us in which country/region is that true.
And just to prove my point: there is a country that legaly allows downloading of audio files. Also there is a coutry that allows legaly to use pirated Operating system (namely that was true for Windows XP, not sure if they extended that somehow). Is that information usefull to you? I do not think so, unless you live there and in that case, you should already now...
..
I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
AFAinHD said:
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that. As a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
This i totally agree with .This can stand for anything rather its music apps or even a drawing of a home done in Cad or even a book.. Think if you spend 2 years writing a Book. Then two days after its released you see it on a pirated site when its being retailed for 13.00 .While you have 2 years worth of bills piled up unpaid.Hoping the book sales. App developers often go thru this same thing. I like most everyone else did download some music in the past.NO longer would I do so . Never software and never reading material. Now if its not legal its not coming in our home or on my devices..If its to expensive the author or developer did not want to sell it.
Bottom line is support the people who Create the things that make your life enjoyable and easier to live. They wanna make ends meet to.. But its not really about the money its about what is right and wrong..
sgtpepper64 said:
I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that, as a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ouya Staff needs to realize a simple truth, that most of us already know, and that has been proven time and tme again....
Trying to stop people from rooting, sideloading, modding is ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS and actually causes LOST REVENUE
Please hear me out, before you argue, complain, etc.. I can explain why this is the case. In general you have (2) main types of users, there are always some that are a little of both, but I would guess the majority fits one of these:
Normal User - Uses the device as they get it, and just enjoy the device and its functions, they may want or like other features, but in MOST cases, don't have the knowledge, or time to research, and manipulate the device.
- Example - These users buy an Ouya and play games from the Ouya store, and do not sideload, root, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device if enough games, apps and content exist to make the purchase price worth it.
Power User - These users buy the device usually with the intention of using it beyond its designed or allowed parameters, they want to get everything out of the device they can. They will push it, they will mod it, and use it in ways never thought of before.
- Example - These users will root their Ouya, put the play store on, run XBMC or plex, run emulators, sideload apks, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device "IF" they think they "CAN" push it and get more out if it, making it into the device they really want. And most will buy some games along the way (see below)
Ouya should realize that if they make changes, or implement things that stop, break or hinder the Power Users - THEY WILL LOSE SALES! You can not try to force a power user to behave like a normal user, this is futile and non productive and here is why:
1. They will not stop trying, and in most cases represent more knowledge and time than the company devs have, they will find a way around it
2. If you hinder your device, than these users will simply buy a differnet device that can be manipulated and you lose sales on devices and without an Ouya , how can they buy apps and help advertisement/marketing by discussing them?
3. These Power Users will still probably try out the Ouya games too, and in most cases buy quite a few. Why not, if the prices are reasonable, then its simply faster and easier to spend $1 - $3, than to spend the time/hassle of sideloading it, etc. These Power users have spouses, kids, and friends that will see the device and lots of app/games sales can come from them, even if the Techy would rather sideload.
4. The Power Users will promote and advertise for you! - These are the guys who really use the devices...HARD, if you have a good product, they will brag about it, tell others, etc. These guys are considered reliably sources, people listen to what they say (good oir bad). I have personally discovered and purchased lots of new tech & devices, by first hearing about it on forums like this.
5. The Power Users can actually HELP you develop, improve and enhance your prioduct, they will find ways to fix bugs, work around limitations, etc. They can help you see capabilities that you may not know exist. Utilize their knowledge, time, creativity and ideas.
6. The hardcore guys that won't buy through the store, will not be convinced to buy, just because USB is broke or somehow sideloading is impossible. They will find away around it or use another device. Either way - you don't gain revenue by stopping these methods! - they were never going to buy anyway.
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
I personally bought the Ouya during kickstarter, because I saw the potential as a Media Server, I have it now, and I am working on that, BUT - I was surprised at how much time I have spent trying the games, and talking about them to friends. I didn't buy it with that intention, but Ouya gets my money and games sales anyway - because of the "other" uses, they made money! I personally, would never have bought it just to play games. But it is an enjoyable experience in addition to my media server.
I saw posts with people saying if you buy an Ouya and only use it for media or emulation, and dont buy apps, then Ouya wont be successful. Well guess what, if I buy a Roku instead, then Ouya wont be successful either! - this way there is a much better chance I will buy some games if I have the Ouya right it front of me! - if I buy a Roku, I would sing its praises, and Ouya loses that advertisement too. Think about it.
My point is you have 2 real markets here, and BOTH can make you a lot of money, and BOTH can help your device become a huge success. Don't waste time and energy trying to prevent one group from using it. Just work on improving your device and its capabilities, look at the complaints and suggestions, and improve what you can, and explain why you can't improve other things. You can't make everyone happy, but this group is much larger than you realize and ignoring/hindering them can dramatically affect your success or failure in this market.
I know that people will yell at my post and say that the company needs to make money to be successful, and sideloading, rooting, etc is in opposition to that goal. I simply don't agree, I have seen this same scenario play out in PC Games, consoles, Android etc. I believe my points are valid, and I have numerous real world, first hand examples to back it up. I really wish companies would embrace these users instead of fighting them (and losing). We can all benefit here. (Sorry for the long post, I need to work on my brevity :laugh
Zehrfox said:
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You appear to think "Sideload" is a synonym for "steal."
nemosomen said:
You appear to think "Sideload" is a synonym for "steal."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it really" stealing" if it's a game you bought already in one of the other Android stores?
Having said that, I do expect to see some piracy on the OUYA, just because the always on DRM will annoy people enough that they will seek a way to end that annoyance one way or another. Once that genie is out of the bottle, it will be very hard to put it back in. Of course the OUYA is different than the usual consoles...
I'm curious to see if there will be overall less piracy as a whole though, as "casual pirates" simply content themselves with the demo and free to play games available to them. Or if lack of piracy goes to lack of sales as well? This is a very interesting experiment we're embarked upon.
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
Zehrfox said:
Ouya Staff needs to realize a simple truth, that most of us already know, and that has been proven time and tme again....
Trying to stop people from rooting, sideloading, modding is ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS and actually causes LOST REVENUE
Please hear me out, before you argue, complain, etc.. I can explain why this is the case. In general you have (2) main types of users, there are always some that are a little of both, but I would guess the majority fits one of these:
Normal User - Uses the device as they get it, and just enjoy the device and its functions, they may want or like other features, but in MOST cases, don't have the knowledge, or time to research, and manipulate the device.
- Example - These users buy an Ouya and play games from the Ouya store, and do not sideload, root, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device if enough games, apps and content exist to make the purchase price worth it.
Power User - These users buy the device usually with the intention of using it beyond its designed or allowed parameters, they want to get everything out of the device they can. They will push it, they will mod it, and use it in ways never thought of before.
- Example - These users will root their Ouya, put the play store on, run XBMC or plex, run emulators, sideload apks, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device "IF" they think they "CAN" push it and get more out if it, making it into the device they really want. And most will buy some games along the way (see below)
Ouya should realize that if they make changes, or implement things that stop, break or hinder the Power Users - THEY WILL LOSE SALES! You can not try to force a power user to behave like a normal user, this is futile and non productive and here is why:
1. They will not stop trying, and in most cases represent more knowledge and time than the company devs have, they will find a way around it
2. If you hinder your device, than these users will simply buy a differnet device that can be manipulated and you lose sales on devices and without an Ouya , how can they buy apps and help advertisement/marketing by discussing them?
3. These Power Users will still probably try out the Ouya games too, and in most cases buy quite a few. Why not, if the prices are reasonable, then its simply faster and easier to spend $1 - $3, than to spend the time/hassle of sideloading it, etc. These Power users have spouses, kids, and friends that will see the device and lots of app/games sales can come from them, even if the Techy would rather sideload.
4. The Power Users will promote and advertise for you! - These are the guys who really use the devices...HARD, if you have a good product, they will brag about it, tell others, etc. These guys are considered reliably sources, people listen to what they say (good oir bad). I have personally discovered and purchased lots of new tech & devices, by first hearing about it on forums like this.
5. The Power Users can actually HELP you develop, improve and enhance your prioduct, they will find ways to fix bugs, work around limitations, etc. They can help you see capabilities that you may not know exist. Utilize their knowledge, time, creativity and ideas.
6. The hardcore guys that won't buy through the store, will not be convinced to buy, just because USB is broke or somehow sideloading is impossible. They will find away around it or use another device. Either way - you don't gain revenue by stopping these methods! - they were never going to buy anyway.
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
I personally bought the Ouya during kickstarter, because I saw the potential as a Media Server, I have it now, and I am working on that, BUT - I was surprised at how much time I have spent trying the games, and talking about them to friends. I didn't buy it with that intention, but Ouya gets my money and games sales anyway - because of the "other" uses, they made money! I personally, would never have bought it just to play games. But it is an enjoyable experience in addition to my media server.
I saw posts with people saying if you buy an Ouya and only use it for media or emulation, and dont buy apps, then Ouya wont be successful. Well guess what, if I buy a Roku instead, then Ouya wont be successful either! - this way there is a much better chance I will buy some games if I have the Ouya right it front of me! - if I buy a Roku, I would sing its praises, and Ouya loses that advertisement too. Think about it.
My point is you have 2 real markets here, and BOTH can make you a lot of money, and BOTH can help your device become a huge success. Don't waste time and energy trying to prevent one group from using it. Just work on improving your device and its capabilities, look at the complaints and suggestions, and improve what you can, and explain why you can't improve other things. You can't make everyone happy, but this group is much larger than you realize and ignoring/hindering them can dramatically affect your success or failure in this market.
I know that people will yell at my post and say that the company needs to make money to be successful, and sideloading, rooting, etc is in opposition to that goal. I simply don't agree, I have seen this same scenario play out in PC Games, consoles, Android etc. I believe my points are valid, and I have numerous real world, first hand examples to back it up. I really wish companies would embrace these users instead of fighting them (and losing). We can all benefit here. (Sorry for the long post, I need to work on my brevity :laugh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best post i ever read in a long time: ) i share your opinion.
Sent from my Transformer TF101
It was my understanding that Ouya was going to be fairly open for just these reasons? Haven't been keeping up with jt to much lately but I recall during development there was at least a commitment to work with modders.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Mostly a good post, but excusing piracy is a lame argument. If a game costs $10 but you think it's worth $1-3, then don't buy it and don't "sideload" it. Sideloading is not the same as stealing, but your argument makes it seem that you feel it is. I've sideloaded a couple of things on my Ouya (through Google Play for the most part), but these are either free Apps, or ones that I already paid for and just installed them through Google Play...so I don't want to be lumped into any group that excuses piracy just because the user is cheap. If you really want to support the console, then buy the games, either through the Ouya store or through Google Play.
brandogg said:
Mostly a good post, but excusing piracy is a lame argument. If a game costs $10 but you think it's worth $1-3, then don't buy it and don't "sideload" it. Sideloading is not the same as stealing, but your argument makes it seem that you feel it is. I've sideloaded a couple of things on my Ouya (through Google Play for the most part), but these are either free Apps, or ones that I already paid for and just installed them through Google Play...so I don't want to be lumped into any group that excuses piracy just because the user is cheap. If you really want to support the console, then buy the games, either through the Ouya store or through Google Play.
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If Steam can do it with their Steam Sales why can´t the Ouya? Sometimes things ARE overpriced and people who can't afford 10 bucks could afford 1 to 3 bucks. Is Piracy a good thing, no but its an obvious result to a problem.
Whoever said that there won't be any sales on Ouya? Google Play has sales all the time, I imagine Ouya will too, but give it time - the console has only been on the actual market for like 5 or 6 weeks...
But if "Ouya Staff should really read this! - Important" then the official Ouya forums would probably be a better place for the posting.
Thanks for the replies
To Exnor - Thank You! - your comment means a lot - I was hoping I was not alone on this
Regarding Sideloading: - I did not mean to imply that ALL sideloading is stealing or piracy. I have also sideloaded apps that I have already purchased. The example that I gave was a real example of my own, and I did download the app, from a alternate site and sideload it, instead of paying the store price - in that example, because I felt it was priced too high. Sideloading is at least one way to get apks installed on a device without buying through an app store. In contrast, I have sideloaded a few free apps onto the Ouya, simply because they were not available in the Ouya store.
Ouya Forums: - I am not registered on any other Ouya forums, I may have to look into that to try and get some Ouya Staff to see this info. I truly feel that they are missing a valuable market here (Power Users), and want them to succeed. I was a kickstarter supporter. Feel free to repost this on those forums, if you are a member, and let me know, by posting here.
Thanks to all of you, I sincerely love this forum and the great ideas and information you all share. It has helped me a lot, and I hope my words contribute in some way, because I am not the expert rooter, modder, like most of you are.