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The reported/quoted imate specs say 128MB flash ROM and 64MB SDRAM.
My device reports:
Storage Memory Total 43.72MB
Program Memory Total 47.93MB
With no applications other than the branded OS installed (33.05MB 'In use by both Storage and Programs) giving that leaves
Storage Memory Free 30.47MB
Program Memory Free 28.14MB
Where is the missing 158MB of memory? How can I access the missing memory?
Also, what happens if I install applications to the SD card. Do they still work?
Yes, they would still work if you instlal programms on storage card.
This is strange, as I think there should be more storage memory than you have right now. About 17 Megs of your memory is also being used by useless cab files which were there for the first time install.. There are ways and means to reformat the drive and actually gain all this space (Extended_Rom) but it involves some advanced tricks in doing this. Nevertheless The rom should more storage not just 40 Megs (?) can someone else confirm this is the available ROM on the JasJar?
I can't add up
My earlier post should not say missing 158MB of memory, cause if you add up my figures there is just 100MB missing. Had a long day messing around with my new device, and as I say my maths ain't that hot anyway.
Thanks for the advice on installing apps to the storage card.
Same here 43.72MB Storage memory and 47.93MB Program memory.
Not happy.
memory
Expansys website states the following specs:
Memory
• Flash ROM: 128 MB
• RAM: 64 MB SDRAM
can be found here:
http://www.expansys.com.au/product.asp?code=119353
If it doesnt match, I would be sending it back, or sueing for false advertising.
What the hell is going on here, $1650 for this device and it has less memory than a Jam and lieing on the website. mmmmmmmm, I would be mad, real mad, someone should die for this, this is worse than the new Telstra boss.
memory
yeah i already ordered mine and am waiting on it to see. i know the way it interprets and runs is different to previous versions, ie my understanding is a hard reset retains its data, so it means it installs directly to ROM and stays there.
From that I can only summise that you can install a maximum of 128 meg of operating system and software direct to ROM, but can only run a maximum of 64 meg into RAM at any point in time, including the operating system, data, and applications.
Then you only use the RAM when you launch the applications, but this would also require the ppc to use some of it, which would appear to be about 20 meg from the previous stats, leaving a max of 40 meg to actually be running at any point in time.
Anyway, wait and see, hopefully should only be about a week as we are on the otherside of the world from where most people are getting them from.
Eitherway, it appears to the best state of the art phone currently available, so we'll just have to see.
Anybody that has already got one, how long does the battery last when running the WIFI? I know my XDAII with a Netgear CF can be drained in a little over 1 hour including the backpacks battery and the main battery.
ROM and RAM size fine
On my JASJAR bought in Dubai yesterday the Device Information says:
RAM Size:64Mb
Flash Size: 128MB
The way Windows Mobile 5.0 manages memory is differnet to Windows Mobile as all the memory is persistent. So you don't lose your data when the device powers off.
But it uses the RAM and ROM more like a PC. The Memory Settings area shows the Storage and Program memories.
The 128Mb of ROM is used for storing the Operating System and for storing user data! The OS takes up about 84.5Mb, leaving on my device 43.5Mb for Storage.
The 64Mb RAM is RAM for running programs. The OS takes about 16Mb at runtime leaving the 47.93Mb Program memory for me to run my programs.
Re: ROM and RAM size fine
vpreHoose said:
On my JASJAR bought in Dubai yesterday the Device Information says:
RAM Size:64Mb
Flash Size: 128MB
The way Windows Mobile 5.0 manages memory is differnet to Windows Mobile as all the memory is persistent. So you don't lose your data when the device powers off.
But it uses the RAM and ROM more like a PC. The Memory Settings area shows the Storage and Program memories.
The 128Mb of ROM is used for storing the Operating System and for storing user data! The OS takes up about 84.5Mb, leaving on my device 43.5Mb for Storage.
The 64Mb RAM is RAM for running programs. The OS takes about 16Mb at runtime leaving the 47.93Mb Program memory for me to run my programs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how much price did u pay for imate jasjar in Dubai.
thx
I am dissapointed. My PDA2K has all my major apps installed and still has 18MB free.
The jasJAR with just tomtom5 installed has only 20MB free.
The OS takes up about 84.5Mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? when i loaded 2005 on my BA, the OS was 32mb???
I would like to verify the amount of user accessible memory on JasJar. I have the test unit with 1.11 system, but what bothers me much is the problem of memory - In the Settings\DeviceInformation\Hardware I have:
RAM size 64 MB,
FLASH SIZE 128 MB,
Storage Size 43.72
But If I open Settings\Memory it is only
Storage 43.72 MB
Program 47.93 MB
Where is the rest to fill 128 MB??
lukasz
I think (although i may be wrong) that the OS and preinstalled apps are using 84.28mb of the storage memory (the ROM - hence only 128 - 84.28 = 43.72mb storage available) and a portion of the RAM when running (hence only 47mb of the 64mb of RAM being available). Remember that WM5 uses ROM for persistant storage of data and RAM is used in the same way your desktop PC does (state, running code, cache etc).
...also - 'user mamory' ? :shock:
tintoy said:
'user mamory' ? :shock:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet he feels a right tit!
RAM
HI
If i see the possible amount of RAM (for the running program) it's 47,93 Mb. After hardreset (before install any application and stopping the automatic loadaded program) i can use just about 30 Mb. It's normaly? Can I enlarge it somehow?
Breki
Re: RAM
Breki said:
HI
If i see the possible amount of RAM (for the running program) it's 47,93 Mb. After hardreset (before install any application and stopping the automatic loadaded program) i can use just about 30 Mb. It's normaly? Can I enlarge it somehow?
Breki
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. 47Mb is what you get AFTER the WM5 core OS parts have been loaded. Anything that is taken up from there (47-30Mb is 17Mb) are today plugins, applications, task switchers, operator customizations etc. Unlike WM 2003SE and earlier editions, there is no slider anymore, and the available RAM memory is fixed. So either wait for PPCTechs to provide a RAM upgrad efor the HTC Universal or limit yourself in the choice of starting up your most crucial applications. (and use a task switcher to close the programs instead of minimizing them ;-)
A RAM upgrade would not increase the program storage available (and would only shorten the battery life). It woudl only increase the amount of memeory available for running applications and this si hardly under stress even at 64Mb.
A ROM DOC upgrade would be a different matter. I ntoice the repalcement for the Dell Axim X50v has 256Mb ROM - very much a WM5 design consideration!
Re: RAM
I understand, but when i have just 30 Mb I was after hardreset. No plugin, no other programs, with the reset i stopped the antivirus and other factory default program load from extended ROM. No installed programs, full empty. Just the brand new PDA. How can free the 47-30 Mb RAM?
Breki
Maybe because you have a test unit with a pre-release of the WM5 OS? I suggest you ask I-Mate to provide you with a release version of the WM5 OS first.
Eh? So are you saying that after a hard reset, prior to any operator customisation apps running (ie, a with a very clean base installation of WM5 running), you only have 30Mb RAM? (and i guess you also have a little more ROM as none of the apps have installed to storage memory from the extended ROM).
To clarify: when do you have 30Mb free RAM and when do you have 47.93Mb free RAM?[/u]
Wiz said:
Maybe because you have a test unit with a pre-release of the WM5 OS? I suggest you ask I-Mate to provide you with a release version of the WM5 OS first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As i see maybe
My ROM is 1.12.38WWE
Radio 1.03.00
Protokol42.36.P8
How can i get an actual ROM?
Breki
Breki said:
As i see maybe
My ROM is 1.12.38WWE
Radio 1.03.00
Protokol42.36.P8
How can i get an actual ROM?
Breki
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 1.12.42WWE, but that is in my MDA Pro. Anyway, 1.12.38 looks like a release verison to me, not a test version.
My JasJar, as bought from Tottenham Court Road (so definitely not a test model) is as follows:
Rom Version: 1.12.38 WWE
ROM Date: 08/24/05
Radio Version: 1.03.00
Protocol Version: 42.36.P8
ExtROM Version: 1.12.120 WWE
No idea what my free memory is like after a hard reset, but I have over 30Mb free when it's in it's normal state (with Pocket Breeze running etc)...
Memory amout -again
Sub 69 - just to make things clear could you please post the following:
In the Settings\DeviceInformation\Hardware:
RAM size ? MB,
FLASH SIZE ? MB,
Storage Size ? MB.
And in Settings\Memory
Storage ? MB
Program ? MB
Lukasz
Thanks to my running SBSH weather, SBSH pocket breezee and pocket plus I get down to about 20Mb free before I've even done anything!
In my case, running SPB Diary, SPB Pocket Plus and PocketZenPhone leaves me with 25Mb RAM free.
But, please do not forget that:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Init also contains services that are launched and that come out of the RAM
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Services also contains services & apps that are launched and that come out of the RAM
I am curious to see how much memory will be free when booted up in safe mode
Wiz said:
I am curious to see how much memory will be free when booted up in safe mode
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can I do that?
Breki
Lucasz...
RAM: 64Mb
Flash 128Mb
Storage: 43.72Mb
Storage Tot: 43.72
Storage Used: 9.50
Storage Free: 34.22
Program Tot: 47.93
Program Used: 17.64
Program Free: 30.29
Although after a soft reset, I think there's more free Program memory.
Am in a hurry to get home for the football now though...back later!
Does anyone have any rec's. for applications that can break down memory usage on a per process basis (like the windows task manager)? I'd like to see which ones are the memory hogs and decide if I really do need them... I hear pocket plus is a killer!
Memory management...
Hmmm, Just to stop for a little while on the "Program" memory subject -
After few hours of regular use I have verified that have 15.11 MB available, after RunningPrograms \STOP ALL there was 15.21, but after softreset there is 19.79 ! so there is definately some kind of the unlisted or "system" proceses which steal RAM. I hope it will be solved in the future releases of the system. Some kind of the task manager to see what is going on would be a nice thing. Luk
tintoy said:
Does anyone have any rec's. for applications that can break down memory usage on a per process basis (like the windows task manager)? I'd like to see which ones are the memory hogs and decide if I really do need them... I hear pocket plus is a killer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i read somewhere on here that memmaid works fine in wm5, that shows processess running and alot of other info
Forgive me for not really being able to search deeply into this matter, I've seen threads detailing updating with the JasJar ROM or an amalgamation of the the MDA/O2 ROM.
1) I have 43.72mb total storage and 47.93mb Program storage. This results in 91.65mb total storage??? Right, at 128megs where has 40mbs gone? I have pretty much the exact same set up on the MDA3 yet the two figures more or less add up to 128mb. Can someone confirm these figures with me?
2) Is there a new ROM coming out and soon? I'm not one to complain if results are going to happen, but the memory issue is a biggy to me as there is one more program I want to install on the thing and I doubt there will be enough free memory.
3) Software, I'm sure there was a better suite of software on the MDA3 when that came out. Okay time consuming it may be but sometimes I do like to run Messenger when I'm on the train - where has it gone? And if Microsoft think I'm going to pay £10.99 more for that feature they can go swivel. I followed a thread that said it's included in Windows - it's not on the MDA Pro.
I really love the design of the thing but the software just seems to be a joke. Where do I start? I have posted the MDA3 for sale on Ebay and I want to honour that sale, but I also want a device that replaces my MDA3 100%.
This includes getting TomTom 5 to work with my BT GPS receiver!!!
1. Sorry not sure about the memory
2. I havent heard of a new T-mobile ROM being available and they never seemed to work on any updates for the MDAiii
3. The software suite was better - I miss my messenger too and like you I am reluctant to pay microsoft a tenner! The backup software isnt avialbel either which is an arse.
4. Good luck with TT5 I had to upgrade my co-pilot to get it to work on new os.
If at all possible could anyone with the MDAPro and the carrier ROM please do a memory check on theirs to compare with mine?
If you're not sure how to do it - Start/Settings/System/Memory, I just need the total figures for Storage and Program
I have the same memory CONFIG as you have stated!
In WM5 you have separate ROM & RAM configuration unlike WM2k3...
So here's how ur memory is split up -
1. RAM 64MB
Out of 64 megs of RAM, you loose roughly 17MB on internal allocation. For the device to run perfectly it has various fixed RAM permanently allocated (DMA buffers (for ur cameras etc.), kernel level memory allocation, GSM memory, video memory, mem swap space, cache etc.). This total memory fixed can vary from device to device, and each company can tweak it accordingly. Eventually, the OS has roughly 47MB for use. Now again, when WM5 powers up, it again consumes around 17megs of RAM, giving you 30-32 megs of ram to use for your programs or apps!
2. ROM 128MB (permanent storage)
This is divided into the following -
a. OS install: This is where WM5 related files etc. gets stored. This is a total of 64Megs
b. Extended ROM: This is used by maufacturers to store their customizations etc. Another 20megs allocated for this
c. User storage: This is the space available for you to install programs, and for windows to bloat Thats 43megs that you find!
Hope this clears out
Cheers,
San
Thanks for you response having had an XDA for some time and then the MDA I was just quite suprised to see a Memory low warning message so quickly as I never saw one on the MDA3. I wanted to confirm that I wasn't having memory issues.
I just bought a Qtek 9000 and noticed that it was considerably slower than my previous Qtek 9090. I am no expert on PDAs but when i looked at the memory allocation it was not clear why i had a Total of 50mb for running programs, and after a hard reset, out of the 50MB total only 27mb were available. Where is all the PDA's memory gone, could someone please explain clearly (for a novice) where did the 128MB RAM and 40MB Storage go ???? Also any ideas on how to make the Qtek 9000 faster and how to free up some of this memory????
Thanks in advance...
avensis said:
I just bought a Qtek 9000 and noticed that it was considerably slower than my previous Qtek 9090. I am no expert on PDAs but when i looked at the memory allocation it was not clear why i had a Total of 50mb for running programs, and after a hard reset, out of the 50MB total only 27mb were available. Where is all the PDA's memory gone, could someone please explain clearly (for a novice) where did the 128MB RAM and 40MB Storage go ???? Also any ideas on how to make the Qtek 9000 faster and how to free up some of this memory????
Thanks in advance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can download DINARSOFT MEMMAID to see what programs are running and how much RAM each is eating (much like WINXP Taskmanager) where you could also terminate the process.
Here you will see why your 50MB RAM is down to 27mb.
And it's 128MB ROM not RAM. this is where the OS ROM is stored. Use Memmaid also and you will see that of this 128MB rom 70MB is for the OS (i thing the windows folder has 70MB worth of files on hard reset), 10MB for the Extended ROM and the rest are displayed in the memory icon as what is left.
I believe this is how the memory is set up. can anyone confirm what i explained above?
Yes, thanks for the info, but is my assumption true that if i have total 128MB ROM of which the 70MB is for the storage of the OS, and the 50 total has 24MB used for running the OS so i have about 26MB left for running my programs??? So really in total the OS is using most of the ROM for storing and running itself???? Rediculous when they advertize 128MB Rom giving the impression that you have a lot of memory for your use when really you don't. The bottom line is that no matter what i have about 26MB memory in total for running my programs. Correct?
Actually My ROM is something like this after a hard reset:
128MB ROM:
1. 70MB OS Image (Read Only files that cannot be deleted)
2. 44MB STORAGE
3. 10MB Extended ROM Image
This is most of it
the 64MB RAM is just what is actually running.
in memory under PROGRAM, it says 50MB. not sure where the other 14MB are but of the 50MB, what is in use are what the programs in Memmaid show as running application with corresponding MB consumed like cprog, gwes, etc.
Hope this cleared things up. Again, this is just my opinion on how the memory is distributed. I may be wrong. No one has verified i'm correct so i don't know.
It took me a while to realize I'm confused, but it seems I'm confused about Hermes/WM5 memory allocation.
I've been using PocketPC's since PPC2000, there (and in PPC2002, PPC2003) the o/s resides in flash, and RAM is partitioned between storage and program memory. Thus, loading lots of applications to the device reduces the amount of program memory available for actually running programs. Those o/s had a slider to influence the balance of memory allocated.
Since I got my 8525 I've been assuming that it worked the same way, despite the loss of the memory slider. There have always been indications that I was wrong though - I never saw the memory balance shift, and nothing I've done seems to increase the program memory. Even removing several applications from Storage and installing them in Extended ROM didn't help. I'd LIKE to free up more program memory so apps like Mapopolis can use a LOT of it....
My Start->Settings->System->Memory page shows 56.22MB (Total) for Storage and 49.08MB (Total) for Program. When reading about the Samsung "stacked" (aka MCM) processor I realized that none of the variants listed had more than 64MB SDRAM, and 56.22+49.08 > 64!!!
It seems like either "Storage" now equals flash memory (vs volatile RAM in PPC2003 et al.) and/or there's more the 64MB of SDRAM in the Hermes or something. If all 64MB were available I'd expect more Program memory than 49MB....
I'm confused - Can someone explain or point me to an explanation of how the Hermes/WM5 allocates that SDRAM?
TIA,
Richard
Hermes has Samsung KD5657ACA-D090 chip provides 128Mb NAND Flash + 64Mb Mobile SDRAM. See here:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_HardwareOverview
pof said:
Hermes has Samsung KD5657ACA-D090 chip provides 128Mb NAND Flash + 64Mb Mobile SDRAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks pof! That's the one I thought it was - but I'm even more confused about the allocation of the 64MB now. If all of it goes to Program, how come I only get 49MB? If it gets split, how come Storage + Program is more than 64MB?
Ugh, I'm confused
Richard
rsolomon said:
Thanks pof! That's the one I thought it was - but I'm even more confused about the allocation of the 64MB now. If all of it goes to Program, how come I only get 49MB? If it gets split, how come Storage + Program is more than 64MB?
Ugh, I'm confused
Richard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These sometimes confuses people...
But, the stated "Storage: 56.96" is the 128MB part, in that resides the whole OS, ExtROM etc. So in the end there is only 56.96 available for the system to use, plus the other installed programs that cuts it down to about 30MB free after a clean boot (that's just the way it is thanks to our lovely microsoft programmers <3)
The thing is that when you boot your device, the machine loads the whole OS to the running program memory and allocates some of it to important system files, that's why there is 48.80 total and then there is the rest running programs that take space, and about 30MB is free after clean boot on my device.
That's the way it has been programmed, mobile device programming is alot frustrating than on desktop PCs, so the memory handling is very important.
And don't mix those two when you said "56.22+49.08 > 64!!!", they are two separate memoryes. (56.xx being the 128 part and 49.xx being the 64 part).
Don't ask why microsoft excluded the memory allocation slider, maybe the older devices and OSs were differently programmed (memory handling).
gvoima said:
But, the stated "Storage: 56.96" is the 128MB part, in that resides the whole OS, ExtROM etc. So in the end there is only 56.96 available for the system to use, plus the other installed programs that cuts it down to about 30MB free after a clean boot (that's just the way it is thanks to our lovely microsoft programmers <3)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That much is logical - not all 128MB of the flash is allocated to the file system mounted as "Storage" - clearly some is for Bootloader, Radio, etc.
Are you really saying the OS and user-writable storage share a filesystem? That seems counter-intuitive to me, though presumably there are user-inaccessible flags to prevent over-writing system files. In PPC2003 there was a ROM file system and a RAM filesystem overlaid so they appeared together. You seem to be saying that in WM5 the user filesystem lives in a portion of the flash - unlike a portion of RAM as it did in PPC2000-2003.
gvoima said:
The thing is that when you boot your device, the machine loads the whole OS to the running program memory and allocates some of it to important system files, that's why there is 48.80 total
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying WM5 hides ~16MB worth of RAM usage? Did PPC2003 execute O/S files in place then? I mean I can see that the o/s and running programs would take up space, but it's unclear to me why WM5 would report total memory lower than 64MB in that case.
TIA,
Richard
See also this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=278903
Got it
pof said:
See also this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=278903
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, that's got it - the MSDN blog links (that Lurker0 linked http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1027392) at least squared me away. Lemme see if I can summarize my own questions:
0) Prior to WM5 most of the OS *was* eXecute In Place (XIP) - certainly on the devices I owned. Now most devices do not support XIP for most of the O/S so more RAM is used in general to compensate.
1) Prior to WM5, PocketPC "Storage" *was* in RAM (for user data), with WM5 it's ALL in flash. Thus there's no sense installing to ExtendedROM vs Storage, because you still can't free up any RAM
2) WM5 *does* hide ~15MB of RAM usage - because they want to. So "Program" really is RAM and it's just stupid that reported Total doesn't match physical Total.
I was tainted by my previous PPC exposure I guess. Half the RAM means that Mapopolis for instance will then always be slower on my WM5 device than on my PPC2003 device - half the SDRAM clock speed doesn't help here either (iPAQ 5555 vs Hermes)
Thanks all!
Richard
1. There are still reasons to use Extended ROM instead of the Storage. The Storage is required for many tasks by the OS, it is wise to keep at least some megs of it free. But, as you can read around, not everything is recomennded for installing on a flash card. Here the External ROM can be in help, adding the storage that is always accessible by OS, and is not used by other means.
2. You may call it "hide" but WM5 actually uses it. Well, the way it uses such an amount of RAM makes it hidden from the tools that calculate total available RAM. But that paging pool is a wise solution. For instance, Symbian OS 9.1 phones (S60 3rd edition, UIQ3.0) use RAM uniformly, and, as such, the same 64MB is just not enough for all (OS, built-in apps, user installed apps). WM5, employing the virtual memory, uses RAM a smarter way.
Lurker0 said:
2. You may call it "hide" but WM5 actually uses it. Well, the way it uses such an amount of RAM makes it hidden from the tools that calculate total available RAM. But that paging pool is a wise solution. For instance, Symbian OS 9.1 phones (S60 3rd edition, UIQ3.0) use RAM uniformly, and, as such, the same 64MB is just not enough for all (OS, built-in apps, user installed apps). WM5, employing the virtual memory, uses RAM a smarter way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - by "hide" I simply meant not reporting it. I'd be fine with MS showing 64MB total with 14MB used - I just got thrown by showing 50MB "Total". I grok their rationale for that reporting choice, I just don't agree
As I alluded above, I have a specific target app which performed well on a PPC2003 system with 128MB of RAM and which is performing much slower on a WM5 system with 64MB RAM. Reducing the app's dataset (maps in this case) brings performance back in line, so I believe I have a memory issue. I'm running an older version of the app due to a bug which is still outstanding against the WM5-certified versions, so I'm likely not getting any help the app COULD be giving the OS. Bummer for me
On the plus side, I've learned a bunch about WM5 memory usage which I didn't know yesterday....
Thanks!
Richard