Database Users

Is WM5 compatible software really compatible?

Now a proud owner of a Dopod 900 (don't laugh at the name! - at least I can get local service in Singapore). Out of the box the unit worked fine - then I started to load on all my "compatible" WM5 applications that I hadbeen using on my XDAIIs....And guess what.. lock-ups and resets galore...
So hard reset and stopped the Ext. rom installation. Exposed the Ext. rom and installed the bits I wanted. Then bit by bit I have added various applications. And it is very clear that many applications that claim to support WM5 still have a number of bugs. I have patiently run my device, added an application, run it for a couple of days, added another and so on to see what works and what doesn't. Many applications immediately start causing hangs, resets etc.
Many of the popular mainstream launchers, today plug-ins etc clearly still have some bugs to be worked out. I am sure they will get sorted, but at the moment I think they are adding to a poor perception of the universal's capability.
So I guess all i am saying is don't be too hasty to blame your hardware - do some proper logical testing and analysis of your software apps (ext_rom and self-installed) to see if they REALLY are as compatible with WM5 as they say they are.

Couldn't agree more, although it does seem that the OEM's have shot themselves in the foot by including software in the various ExtROM's which obviously doesn't function very well on WM5, (I'm thinking of O2 active, and Skype in particular, here) what is the average user supposed to think if the default setup is running poorly...
There does seem to be software emerging which is now "properly usable" with WM5 as opposed to "barely compatible", which can only be a good thing. Give it a few more months, and we should be able to install pretty much any WM5 software without worrying too much about whether it will screw the system up.
(Of course, a new ROM update wouldn't go amiss either, I'm sure it must be just round the corner, and you never know, the ExtROM software may have been tested a bit more thoroughly this time....?)

General Wizard performance and stability

I have been in charge of getting a mobile solution deployed for some of my colleagues and a number (60+) have selected to use the Wizard from varied mobile vendors around the World. There seems to be massive variation in the stability and performance of the devices as shipped. Reading several forums etc it seems that a bad experience is a reset 1-3 times per day and a good experience is a reset every 5-7 days. My coleagues using T-Mobile MDA in the US are having a bad experience. People on Vodafone in the UK seem to be having a better one. What are other experiences in terms of reset frequency and does anyone believe a particular ROM is more stable than others?

Resetting Wizard
The latest T-Mobile UK build is excellent.
I had to reboot 3-4 times a day with the previous buil, but this one is less frequent than weekly.
I don't use much software on it - putting up with the stock calendar etc, but it all serves it's purpose.
Main uses:-
GPS Monitor (my own proggie)
Tom Tom 5.21
Pocket Excel (standard stuff)
Weather Panel
PIE Plus (this is a fantastic add on to PIE)

The original US didn't seem to be the most stable thing I'd come across. After applying the 2.17 ROM found here, however, it was *very* stable. I can go days without having to reset it. I've found a few things that really help stability, too:
Don't overclock. If the software you use is worth a damn, you don't need it.
Don't use today plug-ins. They suck up memory and cpu time, they don't give it back, they don't play well with others and they destablize everything over time. I've found it best to keep the today screen as clean as possible.
Note how apps behave and replace those that don't play well with others.

Since putting the new T-Mobile ROM on my phone Ive only had to reset when my games (which arent build for the device) mess up. Seems perfect so far!

Yep, a lot more stable and faster since getting the latest T-Mobile ROM. Now got it overclocked which is causing no problems but extra benefits.
Plus I found PhoneAlarm by Pocket Max recently which I think is a brilliant.

ROM 1.48 improvements (formerly...GPS issue...)

I recently upgraded to the 1.48 ROM, initial reactions were positive - does seem a bit snapier, SMS is sent quicker, there is noticeably less hissing on phone calls - overall seemed better. Then I tried to use GPS, I always allowed Windows to manage it on this and other devices and it worked very well then and in ROM 1.43 but not after upgrade. Under All Settings - System - External GPS I've always been able to assign a COM other than "none" under the Hardware tab. After the upgrade when I change the value and hit ok, when I return it has been reset to none. Even though Windows is managing GPS automatically (box is checked) no programs can access GPS. Has anyone else experienced this as well - is there any fix?
Thanks
-edit -
A soft reset allowed windows to automatically manage the GPS??? and it does work, though still cannot make changes to external GPS under hardware tab - does not matter though since it does work!
Thread modified - I think it would better serve the community to share experience with users who want to upgrade ROM to 1.48. HTC's upgrade description is cryptic and vague - some wonder if it's worth the upgrade.

I'm pretty sure that it would happen also with 1.43/1.61.

I'd suggest you have a look using HTCs GPS tool (dont have link for it) or any other COM-sniffing application. If that comes out negative, try hardreset or reflash rom.
Just my two cents.
Havent read any other posts about this and it seems that many have flashed 1.48/1.61/2.01 roms and no complaints about about the GPS.

Thanks for the help guys, got it sorted. I changed the thread to help those who want to upgrade.
Some user experiences with the new ROM...
- As mentioned, cannot change hardware GPS com port, though it does work when managed automantically.
- No changes noticed with Opera, it works just the same as before, I don't see any difference in switching between landscape and portrait as HTC claims.
- The new radio brings an improvement, there is noticably less static and hiss before a call is connected, the call clarity is slightly improved as well.
- The home tab in sense operates more fluidly, the clock animation is not as jumpy and weather animation is smoother. overall program swithcing / use seems as good as before (maybe SLIGHTLY better - you'd really have to concentrate to notice any of this snappier preformance)
- SMS messages are sent and recieved MUCH faster than before, when I send an SMS it takes only a few seconds for the receipient to recieve - this is WITHOUT the SMS hotfix.
Will post again with any other comments including any noticed changes to battery life. Hope this helps those who were confused by HTC's ambiguous description of what this new ROM brought to the table.

Any one single issue that may stop me buying?

so, i've no doubt that many of you have been using your HD2's for a while now, during your experiences have you noticed any one significant problem? For example, the SMS sending issue or maybe with push email on the battery life is awefull?
What is your single biggest issue with it?

The biggest issue for me was the SMS problem. Now fully corrected by HTC. I'm proud of my little Leo I use mine with email in push all the day, and I've about 30% at the end of the day, using my phone every minute

My only real issue is the ultra slow messaging system. Not the sending bug which is apparently fixed. This is just where it takes forever to load your messages making you wait before you can type and send your message!
Very irritating problem but not a show stopper! Still loving the phone
I get 2-3 days of light use(Dont use it much at work just texting) and at least 1 day of heavier use(sitting browsing the web, playing music etc on the weekends). I have a second battery with me most of the time just incase i let it run out

There's tons of information already on here to help you make your own decision.
The question YOU have to answer is whether there are any deal breakers for you from the stacks of info that is already on here. This thread, for example, is a good place to start...http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583638
There are just so many threads on here now where people are effectively asking others to make a buying decision for them/asking exactly the same thing. The unique features of the HD2 will remain the same no matter how many times this question gets asked.
At the end of the day, whether you buy or not is entirely down to you.
WB

i've read that thread, usefull but far from concise. I am of course reading taking particular interest in this sub-forum, reading much of it but....
I'm not looking for what "most" people are looking for. I've left this fairly open ended question in the hope(?) that someone will mention what is a fairly unobvious to the masses issue but is a serious issue for them.
I'm looking for something that might be silly and therefore probably not mentioned by most of you but could stop it for me. I don't know what "it" might be but for example it could be that you can't put delivery receipts on a text message ....
I will be using ALL the functions of this phone and I wan't to try to eliminate any suprises!

Power hungry!
For me it's the power hungry nature of this beast. You can actually watch the battery draining right before your eyes if you are using it to surf or watch movies. I was shocked just how fast it drains.
Got a second battery now which I keep with me at all times. Batteries are the achilles heels of these powerful mini devices and I am very much looking forward to the new 3D lithium ion batteries becoming widely available as this will surely revolutionise mobile phones. Sorry going off topic there!

Can't say there's one MAIN problem, but it takes a lot of work to get it set up and running how you want it to, especially if you are unfamiliar with Winmo as I am

Hello again,
I quite understand where you are coming from but the approach I would have taken would be to make a private list of all the functions the device absolutely must have for you to be happy with it then confirm there aren't any issues with those functions through the info on here, sufficient for you to say no.
The key thing you have to remember, which new adopters from other devices don't realise, is that the HD2 isn't really a phone in the traditional sense. Its more like a small computer with telephony and messaging capability added on.
It therefore has much in common with the behaviours of a Windows computer (not surprising really as the OS is a "miniturised" version of windows). What kills it for a lot of people is that they expect it to behave exactly like a Nokia phone which it won't.
For many of us who have used winmobile devices for years, the things that may well be deal breakers for you just would not come up on our radar, hence my suggestion above of a different approach from you to get to a decision point. Being able to tweak the device, for example is a major plus as this gives great flexibility to customise the device. That attraction for me is a major deal breaker for others.
I would wager that there is a direct correlation between the numbers of people new to the winmobile platform and the number of posts on here expressing dissatisfaction with the device in one shape or form (SMS issue aside, of course).
Hope this is helpful.
WB

Indeed it is WB! very welcome and very helpfull.
Been in WinMo for years and very skilled with it so its not a new device to me.
Also spent many years in support roles so very adept at extracting relevant info from a mass of other stuff.

Monty Burns said:
so, i've no doubt that many of you have been using your HD2's for a while now, during your experiences have you noticed any one significant problem? For example, the SMS sending issue or maybe with push email on the battery life is awefull?
What is your single biggest issue with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont have these issues at all. As long as you dont mind tweaking things here and there, I think you will enjoy the experience.

Monty Burns said:
...
Been in WinMo for years and very skilled with it so its not a new device to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And here was I , thinking you were a mere babe in the woods.
WB

It's a great device, but before buying one, I'd suggest to test it if you have the possibility...
In eastern Europe there were very many faulty devices; was unlucky to get one myself...

thanks but won't have that issue, we are very well protected in the UK when buying from a shop.

If you have experience with past WM devices, then the HD2 will blow your socks off!
I've had WM since my MPX200 back in 2004, and the HD2 is by far the best WM device ever, even with it's few minor niggles (and be realistic, what phone doesn't have niggles?).

Well, my main issue was the crappy messaging but with the latest sms-hotfix that is also corrected! No more issues now... loving it every single minute!

No Voice control over bluetooth
Have had an HD2 for a few weeks now, and while it’s a great machine in most respects, the main deficiency for me is the lack of voice control over bluetooth. It's mentioned in quite a few other threads.
I ride a motorcycle and have used a helmet mounted scala-rider headset with a Dopod 838Pro for a couple of years (mostly for initiating and receiving phone calls, but occasionally having messages or calendar entries read out).
The lack of this function on the HD2 is a major drawback for me, and I imagine anyone for whom voice control is important (eg. if you drive/ride a lot).
Have had WinMo since before there were WinMo phones (HP 620lx, then XDA II, then JasJar, JasJam and now HD2) and I bought an iPhone 3GS (surreptitiously for my girlfriend) to see what all the fuss is about and to see for myself if the device is as good as the fanboys in my office gush on about.
I hate the way it's all locked-in to iTunes and you can't really tweak things to the level we're used to with WinMo, but everything "just works" (wi-fi, voice control, SMS conversation mode etc.)
If the voice control isn't enabled in an imminent ROM update I may have to consider selling my HD2 and begrudgingly keep the iPhone for myself.
Just my opinion – hope that helps with your decision.

For anyone with a previous satisfactory experince of winmo it's a no brainer...go for it! I personally had all sorts of problems years back with an Orange MDA and was slightly nervous about going down that road again but so far my HD2 has lived upto and exceeded all of my expectations. My requirements boil down to:
Must work well with a bluetooth headset in a noisy place (I drive a truck)..it does!
Obviously must function well as a phone..it wouldn't be any good if I couldn't speak to anyone but no problems whatsoever on that count!
Must have decent internet access...it does (grabbing e-mails and surfing all day)
Must let me tweak it to add various apps..it does (6 sat nav progs and still adding them!)
Texts I use very infrequently as its easier just to speak but the texts I send and recieve seem to be fine (and thats without any hotfix applied!)
My only slight concern is battery life but as I'm near a charger all day long its no biggy and I've yet to address this with any of the tweaks floating about.
thats my twopenneth..
just seen the post above me...I use Cyberon Voice Speed Dial which works fine for me but as I have to tap a button on my headset to fire it up I guess it's not much use for you (unless you drill a hole in the side of your shoei so you can prod a button)
Retraction time...owing to a PM from Lordbowl I've just checked and it would appear that CVSD actually uses the mike on the HD2 and not the one on my bluetooth headset to obtain the info about which contact I want to call so it's not much use if you are wearing a helmet!

bzdemes said:
My only real issue is the ultra slow messaging system. Not the sending bug which is apparently fixed. This is just where it takes forever to load your messages making you wait before you can type and send your message!
Very irritating problem but not a show stopper! Still loving the phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was fixed yesterday!

Monty Burns said:
so, i've no doubt that many of you have been using your HD2's for a while now, during your experiences have you noticed any one significant problem? For example, the SMS sending issue or maybe with push email on the battery life is awefull?
What is your single biggest issue with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, if you are lucky you may end up with a zero faults device, but you my also consider,that you may have the sms problem which is not solved as many here seem to say.
Also you may get the pink spot that even with htc fix it will still there but not as ovieuse.
Also you must take in consideration that you cannot trust your future phone for making calls, because some times he does not wake up.
And must take in consideration that you may end up with the noise bug while in a call. plus many littel other bugs that you can live with (extrimily difficult to type,with out faults) the screen is over sensitive......Hope it helps for your desition

Audio Booster
Since the SMS outbox bug was fixed yesterday there is only 1 bug that irritates the crap out of me... Audio Booster needs to be re-enabled for every song that is played using Audio Manager unless you want untouched EQ.
I have tried setting AB & hitting "Done"/Home/Back but whatever I do it still dies after 1 or 2 tracks.
HTC reassure me this is to be fixed in a future release otherwise I would be looking for other alternatives.
I think the HD2 is a fantastic piece of kit but let down by HTC's bugginess.

Let's face it: HD2 has many problems.

No need to hide. This phone has many problems, still many people seems to ignore them completely. No need to start the "It's your phone, it's strange, I use it a lot and it never happens" saga. The problems are there. And for everyone. The fact you don't notice some bad behaviours doesn't mean the phone is perfect or that your baby is exempt from problems. Let's start:
1) Suboptimal WI-FI performance. On a 802.11g wireless network, connected to an 8Mbps internet connection, the phone can't even saturate the badwidth of the network. Speedtest.net reports an approximate 2Mbps download capacity (EDIT for those who cannot distinguish: 2 megabits, not megabytes). Test it yourself: try to download something from a fast website and try to figure out which is your maximum download transfer speed. You will be disappointed. As a comparative, this means the phone can use 1/4 of the available bandwidth. A SonyEricsson Satio can fully use the available bandwidth, instead (someone told me "tell me a phone that can do it. Now you have one).
2) Stanby freeze: it's there. The phone freezes randomly while in stanby draining all your battery juice. Sometimes happens rarely, sometimes happens frequently.
3) Poor memory space handling: after just 20 days of use from a fresh ROM update, my free memory space on ROM is just 36MB. Without installing big things or hacking anything. Sure, there are fixes produced by the community, log cleaners, temp files deletion utilities, etc. etc. Still, it's a quite a disappointement: it means this phone can't work properly in a "factory state" for much time.
4) "Always on" features: nice, apart the fact in random periods of time the services just stop to download data. The Twitter client doesn't work well. Sometimes you can hear a tweet sound, sometimes it downloads data without the sound, sometimes it downloads nothing until reboot.
5) Poor stability in general: the OS crashes frequently. Less frequently than the first shipped rom. Still it's not very stable.
6) Poor support in general with the updates: finally the SMS stuck problem has been fixed but they spent 3 months for it without a valid solution. The camera fix doesn't hide the fact the sensor is defective.
I don't say this to start a flame, of course, but only because I'm frustrated with these problems. And people, instead of spreading words about them, just pump the hype, including some notorious web sites that have no scope but pushing the hype even further. But the truth is another: this phone doesn't work as expected.

I honestly do not have the problems you're describing..
Your "truth" is very different from mine, but ne1 is allowed to have no

Can't comment on all those, but i hear you, defo had some of them and i'm on my 2nd unit after 2 weeks.
With Nokia it took them at least 6 months to iron out the flaws in their released phones, defo the case with N95 & N96, i didn't expect it to be the case on this phone.
SMS fix? is it? or only in 1.66, because the hotfix's don't work on the 1.44 ROM
I would like to add the Audiobooster problem to that list

well, I don't pretend mine is perfect but there are more things to love than to hate about it. regarding the problems, I think you cannot generalize because I've never experienced some of your issues but I'm bothered by other myself. finally I guess it's just a subjective call anyway...

I had some of your problems when my HD2 was on the original 1.48 WWE Hong Kong ROM. However, since I flashed HSPL, Merlion LEO V1.90 ROM and Radio version 2.07.50.27_2, it's been faster and absolutely stable. No more freezing/"Sleep of Death"/etc...

jonbaker76 said:
I would like to add the Audiobooster problem to that list
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That one really annoys me too. Still can't find a way to get video and audio in sync without manually adjusting the offset whilst encoding. And HTC still can't get the hang of getting Audiomanager to handle AAC files properly (ie sort albums in track order, or show.their album art). Still, it's a lot quicker than my Touch Pro was ; )

Yeap! I'm very happy that I could be refunded. Too many bugs for such a device.

^
If you want something that works out the box, get an iPhone

I have none of your issues and i can prove it with tests and videos.
I wish i had an "unlike" button to use it here. You are frustrated because either you don't know how to work with this phone or you have some bad software or even a bad phone. Replace it!
You are emitting false statements here!
PS: I have the phone for 2 months.

I'd love to see a phone or device that was perfect.
Every piece of hardware has its own problems.

I've been waiting for so long for someone to start a thread entitled as "Let's face it: HD2 has many problems". Eagerly watching this thread for some positive and negative input.
All in all, HTC Sense is at it infant stage. This "is" the culprit. Perhaps by end of this year, we will worship it someday...
To the developer/creator of HTC Sense, please use your common "sense" when trying to convince people to buy your idea. The first major mistake was SMS failure. Totally non-Sense.

1. have to say the WiFi (at work) is slow (2.2Mbps) but speedtest.net is SO unreliable I'll hold off commenting until I try at home tonight on my O2 LLU connection.
2. never had it
3. doesn't happen to me, currently got 107MB free of storage and 266MB of program memory free
4. other than Twitter client being a bit crap it's fine
5. mine doesn't crash
6. updates are fine but I've not had any of the issues others have had in the first place, less so now running a custom ROM

Return your phone and get an iphone/android device.
This kind of issues, even if I haven't myself had most of those you list, have been around with EVERY WM phone that has been made.
Of course WM is far from perfect, but as someone already said to me the advantages far outweigh them, and I can live with them and the need for tweaking.
1) Wifi speed, show me one phone that can transfer at full G speed. The processing power/memory bandwidth/flash memors speed can't handle that.
It also depends a LOT of the software used.
I do get 1-1.5MB/s (8-12Mbps) transfer on wifi between the HD2 and one of my home computers, with WiFi remote access, and on balanced wifi performance. With Resco explorer, I get 150kB/s...
2) Never had one.
3) Depends... could be just normal, now that the album and browser caches have reached their limits, and would stop there. Stock ROM has a lot of useless stuff on it.
etc...

dgtel2 said:
To the developer/creator of HTC Sense, please use your common "sense" when trying to convince people to buy your idea. The first major mistake was SMS failure. Totally non-Sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sense is fine, but the vanilla Win6.5 fails hard.
And if this thread gets to about page 5, it would probably just turn into another Leo vs iPhone flame war.

For the WiFi "problem": ~ 2 MByte /s is just the normal average speed, even with my laptop I won't get much more on 802.11g .. It also depends on with how many other devices you share your WiFi-channel.

btyeh said:
Sense is fine, but the manilla Win6.5 fails hard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is manila win6.5?!?! Do you even know what manila is? manila = sense!!!

I think there are a lot of 'duff' units, this must be the case with the 'sleep of death' and the crackley call as many of had it but most don't.
I took mine back, got a new one yesterday, no crackles no sleep of death... yet
But true, there are always gonna be problems, it will take months before a near perfect firmware, sorry, rom is out

Thank god for my HTC HD2. No problem here beside the screen shaking. But I hardly notice it.

kilrah said:
1) Wifi speed, show me one phone that can transfer at full G speed. The processing power/memory bandwidth/flash memors speed can't handle that.
It also depends a LOT of the software used.
I do get 1-1.5MB/s (8-12Mbps) transfer on wifi between the HD2 and one of my home computers, with WiFi remote access, and on balanced wifi performance. With Resco explorer, I get 150kB/s...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SonyEricsson Satio, for example. I download at 900Kb/s with it on the same network (using the same browser, Opera Mobile 10 Beta 3). Poor implementations doesn't mean it's not possible. Do we need 4Ghz quad core processors to use a wireless g network? Obviously not.
3) Depends... could be just normal, now that the album and browser caches have reached their limits, and would stop there. Stock ROM has a lot of useless stuff on it.
etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A bad behaviour, even when happens at factory settings is still a bad behaviour. You have a strange definition of "normal". Surely a phone that in 20 days saturate all the available space on the rom cannot be considered "normal". It's a poor implementation of things. A good implementation would have addressed it from the start by allowing the user WHERE to store that files or giving him an option to clear that files without an hard reset. No, it's not normal. Software design it's a much more complicated thing than those "normal" things.

You know you have problems when your best programs are Hd2tweaks, Bsbtweaks and Resco registry editor. And you are continually wiping out your system and trying new roms. Although Xannytech evolution was a good one.