Related
I'm looking for an anti-theft app. I don't know if it exists yet.
Is there an equivalent to the symbian phone apps "Anti-thief" or "EzProtect"? It has some nice features to let your pda "phone home" when someone is tinkering with it, or you can remotely disable your pda by sending a password though sms.
I've been searching over the net and found "Kill-pda" but that can only erase the device completely by sms. Thats a bit overkill :lol:
I hope someone knows, because i learned the hard way that you really need an app like this. My phone got stolen once and I got a Huge A$$$ bill for calling to egypt en italy
edit: I found this description for EzProtect:
The application sends an SMS to your specified number as soon as the SIM card has been changed. By this way, you receive SMS on your friend's (or whoever's number u defined) cell with the thief's cellnumber and SIM number (IMSI) so it becomes very easy to track the thief.
I definately want an app that can do this. And I can imagine a lot of people wanting it too.
There was a discussion about this on HoFo in Oct ober when people first started receiving their Wizards. I think BTT (BeyondtheTech) mentioned something about it. I'll see if I can track it down this evening.
It certainly would be cool.
Check this out! http://www.ppcsg.com/index.php?s=0c0cedfa906ae1b85f844fb7b497def6&showtopic=65021
Hope this works. I have not tried this myself.
Thanks a lot for your help, but that was the program i mentioned in the threadstart "PDAKill".
The only thing it can do is erase the device completely when you send a sms to your pda containing a predifined password.
But when the thief takes out the simcard and puts in his own, then this program would be useless.
Guys, if I've seemed distracted for the last few days, this is why:
I've been working on a program called VJAccioPhone.
It is used to detect if your phone has been stolen and to permit remote use of the stolen phone. Your phone doesn't have to be stolen, eg if for some reason your wife is likely to discover your "niece's" affectionate messages to you, you can send a password protected remote keyword to format your phone and hardreset it. I'm sure you can think of better examples!
It's an expansion of some code I wrote for my unreleased plugin, VJEphemeris, which you can read about here. The release version allows you to do pretty much anything you can do with the phone when it's in your hand, all remotely. Destructive and constructive control.
This is a pre-announcement. I don't like preannouncing, but unfortunately this week I've been on a very limited programming quota due to the ministrations of my better half. So although the code is finally finished, it's being beta tested while I'm away on holiday. If all is well when I get back next week, hopefully I'll try to get it released!
Don't tell anyone else, but you can read about VJAccioPhone and see screenshots here. Please note, and don't ask, there is no download available at the moment.
V
Aside from that a program like this would be very handy, and I'm quite curious and will keep an eye on it myself, I advise everyone to activate the pin code on their simcard, and always call their mobile operator as soon as the phone is stolen so they can block your number to avoid getting high bills as the topicstarter said... You should also be able to get your number back easily by requesting a new sim card and having your mobile number set to that simcard again.
This may seem obvious to some people, but I just wanted to post it anyway since a lot of people are still not aware of these simple ways to protect yourself.
Absolutely true; in England, the police aren't interested in persuing phone theft, but for you own benefit, you must always have your IMEI blocked and the phone reported stolen immediately to prevent you being charged for calls.
VJAccioPhone will be able to report back to you even if the IMEI has been changed or it's being used abroad etc. It's more for protecting your data on the stolen phone then getting the phone back. Frankly, any thief would do better to throw the phone away then persue cracking strong protections. Stolen phones are easy enough to come by! However, at least a nice passer by might be able to get in touch with you!
V
Sounds great! Would it be possible to enable the phone ID (Where you can enter your name and contact details) thought this might be good if it was ever found (or part of the hard reset).
Wauw, this is great stuff Vijay!
If you need a beta-tester on the wizard platform, i would highly recommend myself
This would be excactly what everyone needs 8)
Would it be possible to save the configuration settings? Because my idea would be to include the cab file in my extended_rom, and thus make it install itself even after a hard reset. This would mean that the configurations settings also have to be loaded after the hard reset.
Keep up the great work Vijay
frigit: if you mean enable password screen, yes, should be no problem. however i'm thinking of writing a better custom password screen using some strong encryption, with optional destruction on failure.
leploep: of course, it's designed for extended rom etc. right now protection works as a ta k, for the demo, but i'll be writing protection into an invisible app. Remote control is already complete and works transparently when triggered, so the thief won't even realise what you're doing ie there's no sign of the control smss being received to the thief.
eg you can background call the police from the stolen phone
more when i'm back from holiday next week!
v
This is starting to sound like a killer app - pun intended 8)
I'm in for sure when you get this finished, Vijay!
Already finished for the demo version!
kept me quite busy, developing three intersecting programs, like playing chess! but they all seem to work ok. a friend is testing it hopefully this week then i'll see what i can do for wider release when i get back...
v
Well vijay555 , you can put me on the list of very interested persons on buying this soft.
Cheers mate.
vijay will this work on all the wm5.0 devices??
i.e. I have the pda2k with wm5.0 and have been looking for a prog like this since i got my device, also is it possible to keep this program after hard reset ?? as you know if a hard reset is done the data is gone, but the user now has an expensive device to start playing with
it's not been tested on wm5 at this time, actually because the guy testing has a wm2003 motorola - gulp! but everything i write is normally wm5 & wm2003 now. there is no reason why it's not wm5 compatible but i'll ensure it is before release. i can certainly say, to my pain, the hardReset keyword is very wm5, i activated it by accident in testing.
retaining it after hard reset is only possible, as far as i am aware, by using a custom ext rom or rom.i've not tried it on my magician or universal, but hopefully your device in particular ext rom customisation is possible. at this time it uses registry & normal exe/dll files to run, so no reason it can't be ext rom'med. hopefully this will be confirmed in testing shortly.
if anyone can think of any particularly useful remote keywords to incorporate drop me a line. as it is, the full version will permit remote .exe launching so it can do pretty much anything
v
a lot of us have paid an arm and leg for our devices so having that extra peace of mind,knowing that if your device is nicked your going to make it as hard as poss for the theif to try and profit from your loss.
vijay all the best mate so far your app looks very promising iv got the exec running WM05 so if you need a beta tester let me know LOL
and guys if you report your phone as lost make sure your service provider is also going to blacklist the device!
I work for Vodafones in a call centre in the birmingham, UK,but the amount of customer services that is outsoursed to other non vodafone call centres based here in the UK its unbelievable! the amount of complaints I deal with and customers accounts that I come across where the outsourced twats
will admin bar your sim card but not blacklist the handset!
anyway I'll keep my eyes open for any more theftbashing apps and will post on here.
N2h said:
I work for Vodafones i
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But have an O2 phone.....
Whow V.
Looks very very promising.. !
Great Job man :!:
i'd be happy to check it on my devices :wink:
Cheerz
lol mcwarre
even with our staff accounts we can't get the pdas as they are only available for busniess customers to be honest with you don't know why vodafone is stupid enough not to sell to normal consumers its the biggest network in the uk,
the staff phones we do get we gets 12 months line rental free lol
annnnd from all the universals I think the exec with its black shell looks the most stunning-the white shell devices just look a tad bulkier! lol
Hi Guys
Is there a good firewall that we can use with the universal? Do we really need one?
when i browse the web on my Exec i use it over wifi so is that safe, (my home is protected BUT what about the free HOTSPOTS in the city centre <I trust star bucks with my coffee-do I trust them with my internet security?
Would any of you guys use your PDA's webpage to buy something from a website (ebay) or even online banking?
Im not to fused about someone hacking my PDA through my wifi/internet connection, come on the way I look at it, if some one is that good Im sure they have better things to hack then mine! lol
Im more concerned about if I am going to log onto ebay's webpage how secure is my information while its being sent from My PDA browser to there server?
IL appreciate everyone’s thoughts on this!
YES VIJAY that includes you as well,
GUYS KEEP YOUR REPLIES IN RELATION TO THIS THREAD, if you want to talk about your aunty janes cats dogs friends sisters leg, start another thread!)
You don't need one.
Ward said:
You don't need one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
could you explain why, please?
@ WARD
why dont we need one? because you say so? lol
come on mate you can not give a one sentence reply and walk away from this, do you know how long it has taken me to write the post?
unless you a allsinging alldancing knowit all---------, well even if you are, give a better reply then "you dont need one"
or dont post at all.
you dont need one
You don't need a firewall now, because:
a) No tools for the PPC are really available at the moment, and
b) What exactly are they going to do when they hack in?
c) More importantly, you won't FIND any firewalls for Windows Mobile.
But as to the question of how safe is the information being sent to eBay; well, Pocket IE (Internet Explorer Mobile) is based off IE 5 and 6, with the same security levels. So if you access something with that little lock icon on, you're pretty secure.
If not, you're taking the same risk as normal browsing.
OK guys come on give better answers then "you dont need one"
we are not all mind readers,
:?:
breakit down, whywe dont need one?
how safe is your data when its sent from your device?
try to read my intial thread and reply to the points in there,
I am sure that you are not naive to think we dont need one because our networks tell its its safe or because microsoft does,
How many times has microsoft security been compermised?
Networks- remmber t-mobile? when there servers where being hacked (one good thing that came out of that was pairs hiltons EMAILS! along with the secrect service but with parisss its was more of like many online service providers, T-Mobile.com requires users to answer a "secret question" if they forget their passwords. For Hilton's account, the secret question was "What is your favorite pet's name?" By correctly providing the answer, any internet user could change Hilton's password and freely access her account. and her pet dog name is!!! Chihuahua
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/12/hacker_penetrates_t-mobile/ )
@ snorbaard
thanks dude
N2h, you're being rather rude, so I would have expected a lot more "you don't need one" replies by now just to spite you. I'll answer your question first, and then detail why I believe you're being rather rude.
--
What you're asking about isn't really a firewall. A firewall is used to prevent certain communications either coming into a machine, or going out of it. E.g. a firewall could be placed on outbound port 80 to prevent users from browsing 99% of the web, or a firewall can and should be placed on inbound port 139 to stop some older netbios 'attacks'.
What you're really asking about is whether the communication you do via your PocketPC - over wifi - is 'secure' in that others can't access your information. The answer to that isn't a simple yes/no - it will depend on a few things.
The first thing to make sure as that the access point you're using has WEP (Wireless Encryption Protocol) enabled. The bigger the key, the better. This will mean that 'over the air', your information will be encrypted. Anybody who would 'snoop' that information from the air will need a LOT of data, and a reasonably fast machine, to get the WEP key.
The next thing to make sure is that if the information you're sending is rather sensitive, that you send this information to a site which is using SSL. SSL encrypts your data on your PocketPC itself, all the way through the WiFi router/access point, over the internet, bouncing off of satellites - whatever, until it reaches the destination website where the data is decrypted again. The odds of anybody cracking that signal are *very* slim. It can be done, but it takes ages and ages on multiple computers for even the simplest of SSL encryptions. The 'dumb' way to check whether the site uses SSL is to see if the URL starts with "https". The 'proper' way is to check if the padlock icon is 'locked' in PIE (left of the address bar).
The third thing, if you're using e-mail, is to use an e-mail encryption application, such as PGP. I'm not aware if any exist for PocketPC, but I'm sure they do. These basically encrypt your message in a way that it can still be sent by plain e-mail. The recipient then decrypts the message again on their end. Based on the encryption method used and the length of the message, it would take quantum computers to decrypt it to anything meaningful.
--
For those wondering whether you do indeed need a Firewall - no, you don't. You may wish to look into some basic BlueTooth protection if you leave that on a lot, but other than that there are no real intrusion points for a PocketPC that you'd have to be worried about.
Microsoft may turn the PocketPC into some ueberplatform in the future which would make it more vulnerable, or maybe they learned their lesson and they'll keep things fairly secure - who knows.
--
Now then.. as to why you're being rude...
First.. your post - what's with the bold blue text? Do you think it would get people's attention easier? Just makes it more difficult to read.
Second... you address a specific person, vijay555 - who is a very busy person. But even if he wasn't, it's a bit presumptious of you that 1. he would be reading this, 2. he would be interested in replying at all.
Third... you presume that people would go off-topic, in your original post (in large red type, at that). Why not have a bit more faith in fellow man and see what replies roll in, first? Then if people go off-topic, point it out and ask that they try and address the issue you raised in your post.
Fourth... when somebody does answer your post, even if it is a rather short reply, you tell them to either post a better reply, or not reply at all. Don't be surprised if many people will interpret this in a way that will make them not want to reply to any of your posts at all.
--
Edit: and such is the cost of typing long replies - other people reply before you
zeboxxxxxxxxxxxxxx lol
thatsmade me laugh :lol:
thanks mate
FROM ZEBOX (sorryabout the caps hope i dont hurt anyones feeling)
Now then.. as to why you're being rude...
First.. your post - what's with the bold blue text? Do you think it would get people's attention easier? Just makes it more difficult to read.
dude I LIKE USING COLOURS lol
Second... you address a specific person, vijay555 - who is a very busy person. But even if he wasn't, it's a bit presumptious of you that 1. he
would be reading this, 2. he would be interested in replying at all.
tust me he gets around!
Third... you presume that people would go off-topic, in your original post (in large red type, at that). Why not have a bit more faith in fellow man and see what replies roll in, first? Then if people go off-topic, point it out and ask that they try and address the issue you raised in your post.
Fourth... when somebody does answer your post, even if it is a rather short reply, you tell them to either post a better reply, or not reply at all. Don't be surprised if many people will interpret this in a way that will make them not want to reply to any of your posts at all.
all in one, the amount of threads iv read where the converstion has gone off topic----------- so had to make that clear,
andbeing honest Im having a lugh so i dont want anyone to take it personaly if Imake a checky comment,
and zeboxx this ones just for you
You still don't need a firewall for your Pocket PC.
A firewall in the sense I understand it is a filtering application which brackets network access: rejecting unsolicited packet, applying appication based rules and optionally, performing some filtering on incoming content.
You don't need one, because: there is very little need to restrict application access to the network - malicious apps exist, but its so difficult for them to gain a foothold on your PPC without you knowing about it. So on a clean PPC, a firewall does nothing useful. Dropping unsolitcited packets is nice, but your PPC is mobile - not always connected and therefore of extremely low risk of network intrusion - AFAIK, I've never even heard of a case.
Save your money and CPU and carry on. P.S. PPC AntiViruses are similarly useless, don't listen to PR hype.
@@ ward
Ward thanks for that between you and snorbaard my questionshave been answerd
regarding firewalls and website security!
thanks dude
ward, zeobox Suggested that i was rude to you andmay have hurt your feeling , well my apologies hope we can b friends :lol: lol
cheers bud
RE
Quote
"c) More importantly, you won't FIND any firewalls for Windows Mobile."
AIRSCANNER has one, however, its not currently for WM5 yet
Here:-
http://airscanner.com/downloads/firewall/firewall.html
Keep a close watch on AIRSCANNER for the WM5 version though
RE
ZeBoxx
How to protect your PPC when you're surfing at free hotspots?
I believe that the response should be "You don't need a firewall for your WM5 device - yet."
It's very possible that there are vulnerabilities present in WM5 O/S that simply have not been found yet. There may even be vulnerabilities in WM5 that allow people to reset your device remotely, edit and remove information, etc.
Why would there be vulnerabilities in WM5?
Firstly, its made by Microsoft, and Microsoft has a very bad track record when it comes to this type of thing. Secondly, even if all preventions towards vulnerabilities were taken by Microsoft, it's always possible for one smart hacker to link together something that nobody has ever thought about before. Basically, vulnerabilities are always possible.
If there are vulnerabilities in WM5, why havent I heard about it yet?
Currently the number of devices running WM5 are very small. Theyr also very new, and thus hackers havent really begun to try. It only takes one good enough hacker to do it, though.
Therefore I don't think ruling out firewalls as being irrelevant to WM5 devices is the right way to go about it. Currently, theyr not needed, but who knows? In a months time we might all be scrambling for a firewall as some worm runs riot deleting our files..
It would probably be nice to have a firewall available, anyway. 8)
Just thought I would post to point out that when you go online using GPRS most service providers give you a NAT connection which is in practice the same as a firewall. No incoming connections are allowed, you don't have a public IP address.
This is largly because if you had a public IP all the viruses on the net looking for unsecure Windows machines would flood out your GPRS connection and use up all your credit without you doing anything.
chinnybob said:
Just thought I would post to point out that when you go online using GPRS most service providers give you a NAT connection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true - also, nearly all wireless hotspots will do the same thing, generally decreasing the amount of potential hackers to only other users sharing the same hotspot.
If your device ever gets hacked while using a hotspot, look around for the guy with the laptop trying to look the other way. :twisted:
As I understand it, there's built in facilities for port redirection and monitoring in Windows Mobile already. Whether or not you'd wish to use it for anything is down to a coder.
As everyone is saying, there are two distinct issues I see here:
1. Are your communications secure between PDA and Server?
2. Is your PDA secure to external intrusions?
Question 1 is addressed above. Use appropriate good sense, keep an eye out for SSL and https and always be weary of transmitting anything sensitive over an open channel. Would I use my PDA to buy something over the net? Probably not - I barely trust my PC browser (and I wrote and secured it myself), and although there's little reason to trust PIE less, that's not a high state of confidence. I always half expect to get cheated/identity theft-ed over the net. But use good common sense, reliable traders and be weary of all open connections that you don't control.
Question 2.
Intrusions. Again, as everyone is saying - as of now, there's not an enormous amount of damage that could be done to your PDA even if someone could stomp all over it without your knowledge. Worst case, you need to hard reset, and someone steals all your personal info.
However, there aren't many well known exploits that you need to worry about. But, that probably means that there are exploits known to those who would be interested in you.
However, since you're wifi roaming, it's likely your IP is dynamic. Somebody would have to have an idea of where you are and be particularly interested in finding you on the net to track you down. (although that's easy enough to do if they know your habits. Server logs give a wealth of info for free! I can see many visitors to my website directly from warez sites. If I wanted to backtrace to an ISP, a server or a user, the info is there in front of me)
So, someone can find you on the net. They then need to identify you as using a PDA they can exploit. They have to know exploits. They can then get access to your system. What's the worst that can happen? As everyone says, be weary of carrying very sensitive info on you phone, at least unencrypted. They're small things prone to theft and loss. If you would worry if it was stolen from your hand, don't put it on there, or encrypt it. Doubley so if you're using public wifi.
There are exploits to take advantage of your system. I'm working on stuff that could easily be classified as a trojan, and there is live code, years old, demonstrating the techniques.
Best advice: be careful. Your PDA is naked compared to your PC (which is firewalled, anti virused, and anti-spyed already. right?) Just because no one is interested in looking at your PDA's undies, doesn't mean you should flash them around. Use good sense on all public networks. However, given the hardware limitations of our PDAs, I'm inclined to say, better to leave it unprotected but not at risk (ie not carry highly sensitive info), then have CPU intensive protection that's counterproductive and unlikely to be needed most of the time.
Others would have different priorities. You have to judge what you have at stake.
V
VIJAY thanks for the reply your thoughts are allways much appericated.
when you say you have secured your own browser is it a programme that's available on your site or a 1of thing that you did? someone else advised me that netfront 3.3 (or what ever the latest version is) is more secure then ie any thoughts on that.
thanks
N2h
p.s zeooooooobox guess ur sorry ass was wrong after all.
N2h said:
VIJAY thanks for the reply your thoughts are allways much appericated.
when you say you have secured your own browser is it a programme that's available on your site or a 1of thing that you did? someone else advised me that netfront 3.3 (or what ever the latest version is) is more secure then ie any thoughts on that.
thanks
N2h
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He said quite specifically his PC browser. (i.e. not a browser on his phone)
As someone said earlier, just make sure the little padlock is there. SSL encryption is good enough for most things.
Hi,
How can I configure my trinity so that a click on messaging ALWAYS goes into the sms inbox and not my outlook inbox?
Any ideas?
Thanks
W
I would also like to know.
Windows Mobile is so remarkably badly designed. It just beggers belief. Just little things like this.
Also, do they expect you to get your stylus out just to close the phone? cos its very difficult to hit that tiny X in the top right corner with your fingers. They should make it a phone first, a pda second.
I think simply, they are idiots.
I have not any problems as you have. I choosed the sms one time and after that it always comes to sms inbox when I press messaging
...and if you log into MSN Messenger, it takes the liberty of loading your Hotmail JUNK onto the phone. Then it displays that you have say 2 new hotmail emails on the meesaging bar on the today screen. If you click on this its about another three clicks just to get to SMS. Then if you close it again and go back to Today screen, you click again on messaging and it is back in Hotmail inbox... requiring even more clicks to get it to SMS.
Each time i have to do this my life gets profoundly shorter.
just use left and right on the dpad to cycle through the messaging accounts
I really cant understand you guys: It is a VERY small device with amazing abilities. And WM5 can do a lot of things.
FuzzMunky said:
I would also like to know.
Windows Mobile is so remarkably badly designed. It just beggers belief. Just little things like this.
Also, do they expect you to get your stylus out just to close the phone? cos its very difficult to hit that tiny X in the top right corner with your fingers. They should make it a phone first, a pda second.
I think simply, they are idiots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can close the phone app by pressing the red button, no problem.
FuzzMunky said:
I would also like to know.
Windows Mobile is so remarkably badly designed. It just beggers belief. Just little things like this.
Also, do they expect you to get your stylus out just to close the phone? cos its very difficult to hit that tiny X in the top right corner with your fingers. They should make it a phone first, a pda second.
I think simply, they are idiots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you noticed a button with "OK" written on top? Have you tried to press the red button after the conversation is over? Have you noticed that pressing the menu button and selecting another program will send the phone application to background? I am asking because you don't seem to have spent much time trying to learn how to use a Windows Mobile device. There are at least three ways to close the phone without touching the screen but you haven't even found one.
Regarding the default account for messaging: I usually open Messaging from the entry in the Today menu and that always returns to the last used account, usually the SMS inbox for me.
Im just pissed because I cant get any SIP things to load without having to go through a long process of unloading today plugins and setting sipchange, then soft resetting, then reloading all the plugins.
I will admit, I didnt realise a press of the Red button exits the phone app. I eventually remapped a hold of the left button to close whatever the current app is. Useful for TOMTOM, so you dont have to go through the menus. I stlll find it annoying how you cant just have the messaging default to SMS.
There is definitely no denying though that for however much the programmers have got right, they are still so far from having the perfect implementation of a PDA OS, And they should be after this many iterations. They still have tiny keyboards, tiny scroll bars, buttons shoved into corners. Look at the iPhone interface and tell me that isnt a far more intelligently designed interface.
I like my device, dont get me wrong, Im just a perfectionist and I want to get rid of all the niggles I have with it. .. and I hated Windows 3.0 which this feels like a lot of the time.
FuzzMunky said:
There is definitely no denying though that for however much the programmers have got right, they are still so far from having the perfect implementation of a PDA OS, And they should be after this many iterations. They still have tiny keyboards, tiny scroll bars, buttons shoved into corners. Look at the iPhone interface and tell me that isnt a far more intelligently designed interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that most problems come from the fact that the PocketPC form factor was designed (or I should say copied from Palm) long before the idea of using it for phones. Most improvements in WM5 were actually related to making it more usable as a phone. So if there have been many iterations most of them were in a PDA context not a phone one.
Regarding the iPhone interface: I won't judge before I have actually used it, and most probably that is never going to happen
FuzzMunky said:
Im just pissed because I cant get any SIP things to load without having to go through a long process of unloading today plugins and setting sipchange, then soft resetting, then reloading all the plugins.
I will admit, I didnt realise a press of the Red button exits the phone app. I eventually remapped a hold of the left button to close whatever the current app is. Useful for TOMTOM, so you dont have to go through the menus. I stlll find it annoying how you cant just have the messaging default to SMS.
There is definitely no denying though that for however much the programmers have got right, they are still so far from having the perfect implementation of a PDA OS, And they should be after this many iterations. They still have tiny keyboards, tiny scroll bars, buttons shoved into corners. Look at the iPhone interface and tell me that isnt a far more intelligently designed interface.
I like my device, dont get me wrong, Im just a perfectionist and I want to get rid of all the niggles I have with it. .. and I hated Windows 3.0 which this feels like a lot of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just get an iPhone... but dont ask for thousands of games, dont ask for MS Exchange Push Mail, dont ask for Outlook compatibility (works bad on iPod), dont ask for Word, PowerPoint, Excel, dont ask for GPS, dont ask for WiFi and/or Bluetooth...
IMHO your ranting about small issues is not appropriate. Just read the manual and try the workarounds people show you here...
So are you saying that WM5 is perfect in your eyes? Or that if you have any problems with it you should never talk about them?
I am confused. Sounds like you just want people to shut up and be mindless consumers.
FuzzMunky said:
So are you saying that WM5 is perfect in your eyes? Or that if you have any problems with it you should never talk about them?
I am confused. Sounds like you just want people to shut up and be mindless consumers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only to you. I just think this: If I got one device with ten things working and one not (in fact it worked!) and another device with 3 things working I wouldnt call the 1st one "badly designed".
Well, let's see. As soon as people get their WM5 device I imagine they will want to put some application launcher buttons on the today screen.
Oh that's right; you can't without installing some third-party software.
Ok. So then they might want to make shortcuts to these apps using the keys on the front of the device.....
Oh that's right; you can't do that without installing some third-party software.
Would you prefer it if I precursed all criticisms with the positives? So, for example: Windows Mobile 5 is this, it's that, in fact, here is a run down of the binary code as a description of it and here are some technical specifications and a glossary of terms.... but... I think that they should let you place application shortcuts on the Today Screen.
Nonsense my friend, nonsense.
saminegm said:
Just get an iPhone... but dont ask for thousands of games, dont ask for MS Exchange Push Mail, dont ask for Outlook compatibility (works bad on iPod), dont ask for Word, PowerPoint, Excel, dont ask for GPS, dont ask for WiFi and/or Bluetooth...
IMHO your ranting about small issues is not appropriate. Just read the manual and try the workarounds people show you here...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because something is the most versatile thing available doesnt make it well designed. Take a closer look at your desktop Windows installation...Take a look at your car....
warnysouth said:
Just because something is the most versatile thing available doesnt make it well designed. Take a closer look at your desktop Windows installation...Take a look at your car....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But yes, I do appreciate the workarounds a lot, thanks,
FuzzMunky said:
Ok. So then they might want to make shortcuts to these apps using the keys on the front of the device.....
Oh that's right; you can't do that without installing some third-party software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully respect that Windows Mobile might not be your cup of tea (I had major trouble to adapt to the Nokia S60 interface but a lot of people like it) but to be honest I am just happy with having the last used applications appear automatically in the Start menu, something that no other phone operating system does. I have the programs that I use most frequently always available in that list and it has room for 5 entries which is more than enough for me. And you can choose the 6 items which stay permanently in the Start menu, so you have 11 programs easily accessible plus 3 customisable buttons on the sides of the phone. It works for me.
We're wonder what is people thinking about their G1 device... Please vote and write down your feeling on this new phone.
G1
What does work on this phone works very well. I feel though that this phone is more for developers and hobbyist. It's not quiet ready for guys like me that have very few skills. I hope the software situation gets worked out soon or this phone will end up with no real support just like the Iphone.
i agree, some great potential with this phone, enough to make it a class leader. we just need to see some of the most reported problems ironed out first. great os and hardware on the whole.
what are "mosy reported floors"
I LOVE this phone. Of course it has its problems(lack of camera options, lack of really interesting apps(though there were a hell of a lot of interesting ones added today...), cut and paste is a bit of a pain sometimes but they are all in the software and definitely will be fixed once the device is a little more mature. Considering this is a version 1.0 device and just came out a little over a month ago it's freaking amazing. Heck I've even had iphone users gawk at some of the things it can do like street view compass mode.
Love it!!
I've had (over the past 2 years) the mda, moto q, mogul, instinct, diamond and now the G1.
Windows mobile (mda/q/mogul/diamond), although very convenient, can and will give you a headache and a large pain in the @$$. Screens are usually too cluttered. Such a small screen size with so much stuff. Lag lag lagggggggg. Pocket Internet Explorer is only there for show and orb. Other than that I would recommend opera, netbrowser or skyfire. Functionality is the best feature winmo has. I had full access to my home computer (as long as it was connected to the internet). They are essentially what they are called, PPC's (Pocket PC's).
Instinct... should be set on fire along with all the people who created that POS. Make sure it is a slow roasting fire too. Very very poor smartphone. Good at making/receiving calls though.
The G1 can and will do everying the winmo phones do (minus the head ache... hopefully). All we need to be is patient or pitch in by learning programming.
i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.
Till now only 47 peoples vote... gogogo!
Till now only 47 peoples... gogogo! Tell people how do you think on G1~
We hope TMO can see this thread and improve it on next model if possible.
Good and Bad
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things I like:
- GPS, Wireless are great
- Some cool apps
- Smooth Feel to the screen and it isn't jerky
- Contact List (very flexible for my needs)
- real tactile keyboard
- Maps
- ShopSavvy
Things I don't like:
- Small screen
- No auto-rotate (I know it works with chrooted systems)
- keyboard missing CTRL, PgUp/Down, Arrows (for shell commands)
- Internal Storage space is limited
- Lack of ability to store to SD Card
- The cumbersome headset included (why on earth keep the mic
- Not a true Open Source (I want root access)
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
- piston operated hinges (i.e. slow the shock of closing/opening the keyboard)..opens fast but slows down right before it slams open/shut
- option for normal earpiece input (vice USB headset)
So I'm really mixed. I think a huge win (for me) is the ability to store on SD card (I run out of space all the time now) and having root access. That would put my satisfaction in the upper 90's. I'm sure I'm missing other pros/cons but that's a start for me.
I bought it recently, and am satisfied with it. The screen is very bright and responsive, the browser is very good and I can install my own apps on it without hassle <3
My first one had a squeaky sound to it so I got it exchanged. I have the white one, so it can be hard to see the buttons and some of the apps feel incomplete. Thankfully, I can download the source and mod them to my liking
RouterGuru said:
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye, that annoys me as well, but the input API is is listed on the roadmap for Q1 09, so not too long now (hopefully).
Auto Rotate...?
Just curious if anyone concern about to disable " Auto Rotate " function once keyboard slide out.
Personally, I don't like it at all since sometime, I wish to browse the webpage on horziontal mode but only way is slide out the keyboard!
It is a $%^&*, why they just don't leave a function for user ON/OFF auto rotate ???
I give the phone itself a "very disappointed", the software "very good".
While much if the phone's problems are likely software, the squeaking and overall build quality are sub-par IMO. The battery life is horrid and, while software can fix some of it, the battery is rated very low, which begs me to ask why they spec'd such a tiny battery for a phone with these features.
The point is, I guess, that the phone itself has problems that cant be fixed with a update. The software, while lacking many simple things, at least can and will be eventually fixed.
For me the G1 is a very good start. The default packages and layouts need to be redone. For example. The contacts options don't offer enough input. Like... Birthdays, Anniversaries As well as maybe having IM support for the various default messengers on the g1 ie gtalk, aim etc.
Another Huge let down is the default SMS/MMS package where it does not allow you to forward and the standard options we have become accustomed to using devices such as WM6....
The picture viewer is the worst i have ever seen in my life. Currently I have over 5500 pictures on my SD card and the default viewer does not allow me to view by Directory or simply go into the folder and view that folder, instead it tries to Cache all 5500 pictures and well 35 mins + trying to cache all of them i close it. Also with so many pictures and thousands of names of files there is no option to View a picture and MMS it directly to a contact.
Syncing the phone. There is currently no support for outlook and well even when you export from outlook in CSV format and import into Google it always comes up half garbled with no pictures already saved for contacts. Also not correctly saving number types. IE from outlook if u save it as a mobile number so u can sms on a WM6 device once imported into google it lists it as a regular phone# and cant quickly create a sms to that user by (auto completing the name as you type.)
The only 2 things i have notice that Remember last view is the homescreen and the Applications menu. For instance if you go into your Apps management and uninstall an app. it sends you to the top of the list. The same goes with your Contacts, Directory views, Music library, Etc.
The default options for all applications are normally the same as in notification options. So if i am getting a Text, MMS, Email or what have you it is the same notification for every notification event.
There is no "task manager" to kill processes. IE an X button to close programs or access to kill process' and while Android is supposed to close programs on its own tell that to mine when i run the Browser or Myspace, Facebook, PacMac and close out of the screens and as time passes i wonder why my phone is running slow and open up the Task Switcher and see all of these running still.
There has been no porting of Office XXXX or Open Office to support excel, docx, and the like formats to android at this time yet.
While many people think that the G1 is a big let down and got it and got rid of it. Many of us see the potentional of its power and customization. So if enough of the users voice there dislikes about standard features you EXPECT and want on your device the better the chances that they will take notice.
ultraman69 said:
i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
G1 for 2 weeks ... returned ;?
This is not a thread to bash the G1 in anyway, this is not to compare it to other touchscreen phones. This is merely a usability distinction where i couldn't justify $400 for the device which was more or less to play with android.
the G1 is a good phone, speakers (earpiece/speaker on back) have some amplification issues when the volume is too high, coming from and SE phone however they were more than acceptable in rage and clarity if the volume was controlled.
the internet was outstanding, what i would have liked to have seen was copy and paste in browser, which may have held me to the phone a bit longer than the return period. not being able to at the very least edit docs.google.com documents was irritating at best, especially with no proper document viewer on the phone, severely constricting the email that could be sent from the phone. i am by no means a business user ... but wow, i cant even edit a *.doc thats not already on my phone to another person with some changes.
this has rambled on long enough, i just wanted to share a few thoughts that i had of the device.
diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While correct that the Wing has the upper hand in generations of O/S, I am reminded of a great quote:
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learn's from the mistakes of the one around him"
sure, you need to change the words around a bit, but the lesson is to learn from others. They didnt. Android has a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately they did not "learn" from WM6, they left a lot out. They left it in the hands of developers, who seem to be too busy writing "flashlight" and "punch meter" to write useful everyday apps that we are lacking. So far the only app that I have seen that addresses a missing feature is the missed call app 9which is AWESOME as I miss a lot of calls because they dont ring though ).
I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer (Correction, there is a great PDF viewer in the market for purchase, I meant part of the browser, I think google probably wants to come up with its own version for its Google Book website and doesnt want to use Adobe PDF)
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.
brooklynite said:
I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash was announced to be coming sometime in the near future by adobe, when is the question. There is a pdf viewer on handango however i purchased it and tried to open g1's full manual and it wont open it. GO FIGURE lol.
And contacts sync with Outlook is already out - see MailShadowG at www.cemaphore.com
- in fact, it's an entire push Exchange mail/contacts/calendar sync.
diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, i didn't know that this poll was to rate the potential of the g1. potentially, any phone can be great, 5 stars...
i think by now, 2008, the requirements for a pda phone are pretty much well defined. ms may have taken 3 to 4 gens to get it right, it doesn't mean that google needs 4 gens. they don't have to invent or reinvent anything, it all already there.
unfortunately, google seems too wrapped up in UI than functionality. actually, i don't know where their focus is.
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/12/11/sony-ericsson-joins-the-open-handset-alliance
Having just released their very first Windows Mobile based device, the Xperia X1, it seems as though Sony Ericsson is not willing to rest on it's laurels, for too long. The company has just announced it's entry into the Open Handset Alliance. By doing so, Sony Ericsson has confirmed it's intention on developing a handset based on Google's Android mobile operating system.
Rikko Sakaguchi, Chief Vice President and head of Creation and Development at Sony Ericsson, in speaking of the move said, "We believe Sony Ericsson can bring a wealth of experience in making consumer focused multimedia handsets with new user experience to the Alliance." He continued, "Sony Ericsson is a strong supporter of open operating systems and we believe the Open Handset Alliance offers an exciting opportunity for a new and unique user experience only Sony Ericsson can deliver."
With support for Android picking up quickly, one has to wonder what will be done to make sure Windows Mobile and Symbian, Android's main rivals in the mobile operating system market, continue to hold or grow their market share.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From my point of view, i guess at least 1 model of each must hit the market at the same time.
in other words, a new windows mobile will be released and a new device with Android during the same period.
this will give them an impression about which one is preferred by the end users. specially after this huge success of X1 (even though it's the first SE WM), i guess SE will not give up on Microsoft easily.
I think that the manufacturer that gives you the option of which OS you want to run will be the biggest successfull smartphone of recent times - you can choose which OS you want to run on a PC, why not a phone, pay the ms licence fee for windows mobile, and give the end user their own choice... that way MS are happy, the manufacturer is selling the phones, and we would be loving it!
rosebud said:
that way MS are happy...
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Click to collapse
I don't think so!
I think in the mobile arena people are not concerned about the OS more the UI.
Unlike the PC market where the OS dictates what the UI look like. The mobile market is vastly different. Both with Android and WinMo you can alter what the UI looks like (Not so with iPhone)
As long as manufacturers of the hardware don't lock down the phone to a specific UI then I think they'll be on to a winner. (That's why i didn't want an iPhone)
They certainly haven't hit the sweet spot yet.
Windows Mobile is too PC like, its awkward to use without a stylus. Panels are no replacement for that either as we already need third-party apps for something.
Android from what I have seen (which is not much) seems to be more a traditional phone interface, which I suspect is not PC enough.
The problem is, you can't sacrifice the PC features for the sake of making it more thumb friendly otherwise you might as well have bought a normal phone. However WM is also far from the ease of use of a normal phone which gets annoying sometimes when all you want to do is make a call.
Is it even possible to solve both those problems? Panels certainly was an attempt which I am not so sure about yet. Its far too "stuck on top". I get not wanting it to take over the phone, I wouldn't want that either, but it would be helpful sometimes to have the X1 in "phone priority mode" where it imitates a phone keeping the PC stuff in the background. If I want to choose a contact, make a call, send a text, its overly complicated and time consuming in WM and having to wait for Panels to load makes it no faster either.
Alex Atkin UK said:
If I want to choose a contact, make a call, send a text, its overly complicated and time consuming in WM and having to wait for Panels to load makes it no faster either.
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Click to collapse
To be honest, I don't find what you described here much different than other phone that I have used such as say Symbian....
I am not sure why you find it overly complicated and time consuming, but making a call and sending a message isn't harder to me at least... you just open contacts (or use the "Call button") type in the name (or number in the phone screen) and there you go........... I can't imagine it being any better really.
erichui said:
To be honest, I don't find what you described here much different than other phone that I have used such as say Symbian....
I am not sure why you find it overly complicated and time consuming, but making a call and sending a message isn't harder to me at least... you just open contacts (or use the "Call button") type in the name (or number in the phone screen) and there you go........... I can't imagine it being any better really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.... coming from a iphone I just dont see any different to make a call between the 2 os.... I still have to click on the phone button, then click on the number to make a call... same thing on the sms.... or maybe Alex have a different approach or he doesnt know which button to click to make a call
in terms of "thumb friendly"... the only thing that I find that the x1 is not is that the screen size is small compare to the iphone. Otherwise while the x1's screen use pressure instead of capacitance, I dont find it a lot different than the iphone...
Well for a start, what is the quickest/easiest way to get to the messaging app?
I do it via the today screen which is REALLY easy to hit the wrong line.
Then there's editing your contacts. This is REALLY fiddly on WM because its a pure Windows interface so the best chance of not hitting the wrong line is to get the stylus out.
One problem is that I want small fonts so I can fit more text on the screen, but often the size of the area you click is related to the font size. So if you have small fonts its harder to use with your finger.
Panels on the other hand are great in theory, but they are so slow at loading due to being all separate apps. They need to load a LOT quicker.
It also does not help the lack of 2D/3D acceleration so the CPU gets hammered doing really basic things which can cause scrolling to stutter, apps to hang, etc. So its not all WM at fault here, the whole OpenGL not available to the OS on the Qualcomm chipsets is a big issue for usability.