Database Users

[Q] Will a Touch HD help organize my life?

I'm on the fence about buying one of these for USA use. I don't want to pay $100 for a monthly cell phone plan, so I probably won't need the 3g for "GPS" or a lot of internet usage.
I will however most likely take advantage of the array of programs available and heavily use a calendar application to schedule appointments, reminders, alarm clock, etc. Can someone comment on how a Touch HD helps to simplify and organize their daily routine and keep appointments?
Also, I had a chance to get one of my hands on one in Malaysia and I have to say that the interface is very slick. Is it possible to use the stylus to scribble notes on a notepad? Is this a popular and quick-to-use feature for on-the-fly note taking? I don't see it mentioned very much in the forums here.
I won't be returning to the States until April, so I'll be keeping my eye on some other up and coming phones that have GPS built into the phone for an annual fee.

ModernMuseum said:
I'm on the fence about buying one of these for USA use. I don't want to pay $100 for a monthly cell phone plan, so I probably won't need the 3g for "GPS" or a lot of internet usage.
I will however most likely take advantage of the array of programs available and heavily use a calendar application to schedule appointments, reminders, alarm clock, etc. Can someone comment on how a Touch HD helps to simplify and organize their daily routine and keep appointments?
Also, I had a chance to get one of my hands on one in Malaysia and I have to say that the interface is very slick. Is it possible to use the stylus to scribble notes on a notepad? Is this a popular and quick-to-use feature for on-the-fly note taking? I don't see it mentioned very much in the forums here.
I won't be returning to the States until April, so I'll be keeping my eye on some other up and coming phones that have GPS built into the phone for an annual fee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I can definitely say that using a stylus to jot notes will NOT get you far unfortunately :S . The screen is only ~1.8" wide, the screen isn't near sensitive or accurate enough, and devices like this aren't very fast even w/ the latest clean rom, registry tweaks, and drivers. They are still pretty..SLOW. But that is highly a problem of windows mobile and qualcomm driver-less chipsets.
You might try something like:
iPhone
G1
Treo 800w
Treo 850 pro
Palm Centro
for stuff like that I guess...simply because each of those devices is easier snappier or has a better screen.
But if you just want to take notes using a software on screen keyboard on the HD...then you should be good to go. Just keep the notes program minimized (cuz it can take a while to open when you start getting 200+ notes). Then pop it open, hit new, and start typing away when you need to type something down. I would HIGHLY recommend pocketcm keyboard BY FAR for this. Plus its free.
Best of luck to you! (toshiba is also supposed to be producing what looks to be a pretty sick device, and the blackstone / hd should have android up and running hopefully within 2 months or so (which would enhance smoothness and snapiness of device) or perhaps the G2 will become real and be produced by then).
As for calendar / scheduling / alarm capabilites...it isn't anything fantastic by any stretch of the imagination or anything (windows mobile), but it will get the job done well.

Well I find the HD invaluable for keeping track of my appointments and buzzing when one is due. But, any windows mobile device will do that.
I also use apMemo to make quick notes on the fly and alarm them if needed. In the car I have on the HD a button mapped to the Resco Note recorder so I may make a verbal note.
I also have loads of applications, like GPS, a copy of wiki, etc etc.
I find SBSH PocketBreeze the best diary program and have this running with TF3D by using SecondToday.
I like TF3D weather and stocks.

Jim and Dave -
Thanks very much for your response. You definitely answered my questions.
I'm not sure at this point that I need a stylus, but it sure would be a nice asset to have, as with the HD. I guess I will most likely wait around a few more months to see what else comes out. The HD is kind of impractical in the US right now since it can't be integrated into the purchase of a celllular plan.

Deleted. Double post for unknown reason.

For me, it definitely helps organize my life. In fact, I would be crippled without it.
In the morning, I rely on it to wake me up with a fantastic alarm clock application called G-Alarm. It has big button to snooze and stop, and plays my favourite music to wake me up.
I have lousy memory, so I rely on it 100% to remind me to pay me bills, renew my insurance, road tax, etc. There are finger friendly calendar applications that lets you enter text 100% without stylus. Try TouchPal or Tengo as your software keyboard, and Thumbcal as the way to enter new appointment.
Of course, birthdays, contact details are all kept in my HD, together with theri emails, etc.
Most of my emails are compiled using my HD, but since the contact could be sync to desktop, you would find it equally convenient to compile emails there too.
I pay all my bill via internet using my Touch HD. So far, Opera is able to 100% handle all my banks, although you might find some bank's website requiring desktop browser to completely carry out the transaction.
All my user id, passwords, warranty expire dates of stuffs I buy, bank accounts details, insurance details, credit cards details, health cards, library cards, software serial numbers, etc etc are all kept using my HD. There are so many nice applications to organise these informations. I use eWallet, but may others are equally good.
I drive around using Tom Tom 7, even on familiar route. Why? Because I tend to day dream and forget the speed camera, school zone hours (where during certain time of the day we must drive at 40Km/h), red light camera (to remind me NOT to enter the intersection if there is a traffic jam (lest having to pay hefty traffic fines), and to stay within the road speed limit. While in unfamiliar places, I'm 100% relying on it to bring me to the destination. While travelling in Asian countries, Tom Tom and iGO are completely useless, so I use Garmin and Mapking in those countries. All these GPS are installed on my HD at all times. Forget iPhone.
I use the stock information a lot, checking it many times during the day.
Then while coming acrosss words I don't know, I use my favourite Lexisgoo to find out what they mean.
There are times when I need to convert unit of measure from one system to another (for example, from cm to inches). I use Panoramic Calc Pro to help me in such task. The standard winmo or iphone calculator is not going to help here.
I live in Australia, where the price of petrol changes frequently duing the day, and there is always a need to know where I can get the cheapest petrol. I have emails sending such informaiton to me twice a day, but I have also bookmark this website to look up instantly when my petrol runs low.
I keep many other reference information on my HD. I install applications such as Wine Guide, Travel Guide on my HD.
While having time to kill, I amuse myself with ebooks using a fantastic ebook reader called AlReader. It is also 100% finger friendly.
I use youtube a lot. There is also an application that lets you view video from sources other than youtube, called Web Video Downloader. With WVD, you could watch from youtube, liveleak, porkolt, dailymotion, tube8, google, eskimotube, pornhub, bootyfix, and xyxx. I don't know most of them as I use only youtbue, but it works for all in my test. You can watch video in MP4 (higher quality that FLV) format there, so I prefer it over the standard youtube player.
Radio, MP3, videos, picture viewing are some other pastimes.
I own video recorders and good cameras, but these days I don't bring them with me anymore, as I find my HD doing very good job in most situation. The only problem is taking picture is very poor lighting condition.
All my telephone converations are recorded automatically using Audio notes touch. There is no need to fumble for pen and paper while speaking on the phone.
I also use AgePhone for VOIP calls using my HD. Just 8 aussie cents per call anywhere in the world untimed.
While playing golf, I use Mobile Golf Scorer to track our scores, calculates the stapleford points of everyone, and rank us if we want to hold competition against each other. It calculates all our handicaps automatically. It tells me the distance of my postion to the water hazards, to the green, etc.
The screen brightness of HD is just excellent beyond my expectation. It has an automatic sensor. I am able to see things very clearly under the strongest sunlight.
My HD is fast. I'm using standard ROM.
HD has excellent battery life. I used to have to use the car charger everytime I get into my car. Now I don't anymore as its battery is so good. Anyway, I also bought a spare battery, so when I run out of battery before going to bed, I simply swap in the new one. You can't do that with iPhone.
I have lots of spreadsheet models that I had created using my mobile device. I use SoftMaker to give me 100% of the desktop editing capability for word, spreadsheet and presentation. I am able to view all email attachment on my HD, with or without internet connection. No such capability with iPhone.
Okay, this is getting too long, but I hope it helps you get the picture.

ModernMuseum said:
The HD is kind of impractical in the US right now since it can't be integrated into the purchase of a celllular plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, the hd can be used fine in the us. you just wont get 3g. everything else will work fine. you can use jit with any sim card (at&nt, tmobie)

I find taking notes with the stylus very easy.
There's no lag at all!
In fact I do it all the time, Notes is mapped to my right softkey in the home menu.

like some others here, i would struggle without my winmo fone now.
i use the calendar for all my work appts (can be a dozen a day at various venues with various people for various reasons) i sync the calender with outlook both at work and at home, over the mobile network at times. my personal life is stored on there as well such as parties, hols, birthdays etc etc
i collect my work email on the move and can schedule meetings with it
my whole address book is in it, as well as being able to access the corporate address book
i use tomtom to navigate to meetings at places i dont know via my contacts
i make notes on it during meetings and have no trouble making my own minutes in real time. i even make voice notes if in the car and need to recall something
for me, the term Personal Digital Assistant is the perfect description
@jim..... i fond the stock winmo applications to be all i need, just that you have to set them up to your preferences. i use spb diary and shell for my front end though, preferring that over TF3D

eaglesteve said:
All my user id, passwords, warranty expire dates of stuffs I buy, bank accounts details, insurance details, credit cards details, health cards, library cards, software serial numbers, etc etc are all kept using my HD. There are so many nice applications to organise these informations. I use eWallet, but may others are equally good.
...
Okay, this is getting too long, but I hope it helps you get the picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, great post for selling Windows Mobile!
One thing that caught my eye is when you mentioned storing software serial numbers. I couldn't tell you how many online purchases I've made of various pieces of software where I've forgotten where I wrote down the serial number, or worse yet what programs I've even purchased.
You use eWallet to track that, or is there something better that you know of?
I could maybe get rid of the tons of user manuals I hang on to only because they have the serial numbers for installation.. lol.

sschrupp said:
First off, great post for selling Windows Mobile!
One thing that caught my eye is when you mentioned storing software serial numbers. I couldn't tell you how many online purchases I've made of various pieces of software where I've forgotten where I wrote down the serial number, or worse yet what programs I've even purchased.
You use eWallet to track that, or is there something better that you know of?
I could maybe get rid of the tons of user manuals I hang on to only because they have the serial numbers for installation.. lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I use is Ilium Listpro. This is a great list application and comes with a PC app that is exactly the same and produces the same files - so, copy and paste to the HD is childs-play.
I have one list (of many) for applications and I try to update that each time I load something up including the version, password/free, web site. See my post on this in the thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442663
I have in that listpro lists a set of sub-lists for applications I had on my old Tytn II etc. So, I can always track back to an app I might want to try on the HD.
Here is my listpro entry for listpro !! (minus password):
Ilium Listpro 5.0.0.2016 http://www.iliumsoft.com/site/lp/listpro.htm

ModernMuseum said:
Jim and Dave -
Thanks very much for your response. You definitely answered my questions.
I'm not sure at this point that I need a stylus, but it sure would be a nice asset to have, as with the HD. I guess I will most likely wait around a few more months to see what else comes out. The HD is kind of impractical in the US right now since it can't be integrated into the purchase of a celllular plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. One thing that I wanna mention real quick though is that...w/ winmo, the big problem (and advantage) that I'm sure you have noticed on these forums is...you're not going to get anywhere w/o 3rd party apps. Basically everything kinda sucks :S lol.
But once you get rolling w/ those...you're great. But the problem therein is that so many apps can begin to bog the device down and cause software conflicts.
The great news....both winmo 6.5 and android are soon to be on the HD (I give it 3.5 months guaranteed they are both running well on it).
EDIT: Basically though, the overall simple answer to your base question is: YES. Maybe other devices could do it better, or it will take tweaking, but YES. And even if you do NO tweaking whatsoever the answer would still be: YES...just not nearly as strong a yes.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I really appreciate it.
@eaglesteve-
When you take notes during meetings, do you use the stylus or your finger, and what program do you use?

ModernMuseum said:
Thanks for all the replies guys. I really appreciate it.
@eaglesteve-
When you take notes during meetings, do you use the stylus or your finger, and what program do you use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was another guy's post that talks about note taking. I sometimes take sermon notes in Sunday Church services. I use TextMaker with Tengo Thumb keyboard without stylus. Tengo Thumb is the only keyboard that lets me type fast enough to catch up with the speaker. It has only six hugh keys, requiring very little travelling distance (my thumb concentrates around the tyghbn region only, so your thumb and finger need not move all over the screen). Same concept as TouchPal, but just 6 bigger buttons instead of 14 smaller buttons.

eaglesteve said:
It was another guy's post that talks about note taking. I sometimes take sermon notes in Sunday Church services. I use TextMaker with Tengo Thumb keyboard without stylus. Tengo Thumb is the only keyboard that lets me type fast enough to catch up with the speaker. It has only six hugh keys, requiring very little travelling distance (my thumb concentrates around the tyghbn region only, so your thumb and finger need not move all over the screen). Same concept as TouchPal, but just 6 bigger buttons instead of 14 smaller buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or you could use a sound recorder ? I have Resco which I find works well but I don't use it for long sermons !

Cheesy Dave said:
Or you could use a sound recorder ? I have Resco which I find works well but I don't use it for long sermons !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose we could do that too.

Not in a meeting! Hehe.
**crackle**
Keith, don't forget to send that report to the nazi bossman by the end of the day. Oh, yeah, and buy condoms on the way home.
**crackle**

ModernMuseum said:
I'm on the fence about buying one of these for USA use. I don't want to pay $100 for a monthly cell phone plan, so I probably won't need the 3g for "GPS" or a lot of internet usage.
I will however most likely take advantage of the array of programs available and heavily use a calendar application to schedule appointments, reminders, alarm clock, etc. Can someone comment on how a Touch HD helps to simplify and organize their daily routine and keep appointments?
Also, I had a chance to get one of my hands on one in Malaysia and I have to say that the interface is very slick. Is it possible to use the stylus to scribble notes on a notepad? Is this a popular and quick-to-use feature for on-the-fly note taking? I don't see it mentioned very much in the forums here.
I won't be returning to the States until April, so I'll be keeping my eye on some other up and coming phones that have GPS built into the phone for an annual fee.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me start of to say that I don’t own Blackstone yet. Therefore I can’t tell you much about the device performance itself, but I am using WinMo since some 8-10 years now.
During this time I have used quite few different devices and I can tell you that I never had device that was “perfect”. Somehow you will have always some issues that you not very happy with it. Speed, Size, keyboard, Battery live, Screen Size, stability etc. etc.
Furthermore after while you will start to visit this site more and more. Times will pass then you will find out that you spend more time here on this site then you talking to your wife. You will be addicted!!! You will wait of custom ROM releases like you have been waiting for your first child. You will use your device more for flashing and testing new ROMS then you will actually use your device. You will start to install so many Software’s that you think they are useful but then you will find out you use them actually only first couple of days.
Coming to using your device to Organizing your live.. Well looking back to 8-10 years I would say a PDA did become a must for busy people, especially if you work a lot with Microsoft outlook on your desktop.
The OS WinMo gives you basic application and of course there plenty 3 party software that improves the capability and functionality of the Device. Indeed you may find more than one software company that offers almost same software. Well again same as the hardware there is no perfect software besides everyone has own favorites.. I would say try them and find the best for you.
Here is the list of software that I have installed:
Pocket Informant ( PIM)
PhatNotes ( database Notes)
PhatPad (handwriting notes)
CalliGrapher (Hand writing Input)
HiCalc ( calculator and Unit converter)
PhoneAlarm Pro (this software can do more than one thing..check it out)
SKTools (Utilities)
Resco explorer(file explorer)
Google Maps
TodayAgenda (displays appointments and task on today screen)
LingvoSoft Dictionary’s
Softmaker office (Replacement for Pocket word, excel etc.)
Flexmail ( email client: I use this only for POP and IMAP email accounts)
I am a business user. I have daily 80-150 emails. Many Appointments and Project/Task that I need to remember and follow up.
I work mainly with MS outlook on my desktop. Therefore all my appointments, task, Reminders and Contacts are organized in outlook. After Sync. with my Hand device the Pocket Informant gives me the best tools to keep me Organized for those.
I use PhatNotes for all my information that I need to keep as notes(database) to remember. There is 2 versions for PhatNotes. 1) integrates with outlook notes 2)has own separate desktop application. I personally use the separate desktop version. I can organize my notes under different categories. I can protect sensitive notes with passwords
I found Phatpad is one of the best hand writing Notes.. I use it mostly in the meetings to take handwritten notes ( like on paper) I can with the help of the calligrapher convert my handwriting to text and save it as word document or txt file. Moreover it is a great tool for using it like yellow sticker notes. You can add reminder to your notes as well.
Well I can go on like that for hours for what else I am using my WinMo. In Short I would say I would be lost without it. The only Advice I can give you is to install only the software’s that you really use daily base.

Winmo to Android

i previously had a Tytn2. One of the best fones i've ever ownedexcept for the speed and the clunkiness of it. Upgraded to Rogers HTC Dream, but there are a lot of things i miss from the Tytn. Just wondering what functionalities other people miss, and possible this could brainstorm ideas generate solutions or substitutes on Android...
personally,
a) Tomtom, using nav with built in maps, no data necessary
b) official msn client
c) tethering (currently only using pdanet, non-root)
d) simple windows functions, ie copying text, easily moving files within explorer on the fone
e) others...?

kevwo said:
i previously had a Tytn2. One of the best fones i've ever ownedexcept for the speed and the clunkiness of it. Upgraded to Rogers HTC Dream, but there are a lot of things i miss from the Tytn. Just wondering what functionalities other people miss, and possible this could brainstorm ideas generate solutions or substitutes on Android...
personally,
a) Tomtom, using nav with built in maps, no data necessary
b) official msn client
c) tethering (currently only using pdanet, non-root)
d) simple windows functions, ie copying text, easily moving files within explorer on the fone
e) others...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a) copilot live. Its $35 and is on the market. You will need to root and run marketenabler though since canada isn't on the non-free market list yet. The maps are better than tomtom, the routing is smarter, and the route planning is MUCH FASTER.
b) There's lots of im crap on the market. Can't imagine why you would want this nonsense, but its there for you to download if you want it.
c) tether for root users. Again, root it.
d) you need to learn to LONG-press. And for manipulating files, either learn to use the terminal properly like the more intelligent people (it is MUCH easier and more efficient than using ANY gui), or find a free program called "ASTRO" in the market.
e) if you don't have a question, we can't provide an answer.

lbcoder said:
a) copilot live. Its $35 and is on the market. You will need to root and run marketenabler though since canada isn't on the non-free market list yet. The maps are better than tomtom, the routing is smarter, and the route planning is MUCH FASTER.
b) There's lots of im crap on the market. Can't imagine why you would want this nonsense, but its there for you to download if you want it.
c) tether for root users. Again, root it.
d) you need to learn to LONG-press. And for manipulating files, either learn to use the terminal properly like the more intelligent people (it is MUCH easier and more efficient than using ANY gui), or find a free program called "ASTRO" in the market.
e) if you don't have a question, we can't provide an answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey lbcoder, thanks for the response, some good points there
A) does copilot run if i take the sim card out tho (no data used) ? if it does, then you rock!
b) fair enough
c) rooting tonite, once i get home. thanks haykuro
was there anything that anyone in particular liked about winmo?

kevwo said:
hey lbcoder, thanks for the response, some good points there
A) does copilot run if i take the sim card out tho (no data used) ? if it does, then you rock!
b) fair enough
c) rooting tonite, once i get home. thanks haykuro
was there anything that anyone in particular liked about winmo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a) Definitely works without data. Haven't tried pulling the card though, really don't want to open the case up.
d) I've always really liked that winmo never really caught on. They have too much of a monopoly and are perfectly evil and abusive... ever actually read one of their eula's? Its a "You want me to agree to WHAT??? No, I will NOT sign over my firstborn and my youngest daughter, and you can NOT have my testicles ".

I owned a TyTn II before buying an HTC Dream.
My transition to Android was through the Android port to the tytn2. As I was using android on the tytn2, I found myself spending more and more time in android then in WinMobile. After a while I started dreading having to go back to WinMo to access features that the android port didn't have functioning (like camera, wifi...)
What I started to dislike about WinMo was the fact that it has a stylus driven interface. Even though there are some nice custom WinMo Roms, that add some nice finger navigation to the main features, practically all 3rd party software is not finger friendly.
And Android worked so much smoother and snappier then WinMo.
Since getting the Dream a month ago, I haven't once thought about what I'm missing from the tytn2.
Just my experience.

I am pretty much in the same boat as the OP. TomTom was the biggie for me, as was the much better included mail client in WM. I was personally running Windows Mobile 6.5 and in fact am still running it on the Tytn.
I actually went back to using my Tytn and tossed the dream in the glove box. It wasn't till night before last when I rooted the Dream that I put my sim back in it. If Copilot works as expected I may try the Dream for bit and see if my feelings change. However I can see a new WM device in my near future.
Oh take a look at K9 for an email client. Still a bit clumsy to use, but worlds better than the built in mail client in android. Its still a very young phone and OS, I think over time it'll get better.

lbcoder - we have winmo hater! lol well at least i had my tytn2 running better than so many iphones....yeah i'm gonna hate on iphone
outsider787 - how did android run on the tytn2? was it laggy? i have to assum it was, as just its own rom was quite laggy. i agree tho, that it is frustrating to try to do things on the screen with your finger that was designed for a stylus
Capt Fiero - keep me/us informed with how the testing of CoPilot goes! with tomtom, i could just take my sim when travelling in the US and still navigate (atlantic city to ny!)

I replied to your pm, however wanted to add a few things here.
I still have yet to get copilot installed on the 10 day trial. Every time I go to download and install it, using market enabler it wants me to give them a credit card, and I am not supplying a credit card number or personal info through market on an app that I have never even seen in operation let alone tried.
Now as for going state side, I found it ridiculously cheap just go across pick up a USA AT&T pay as you go card, drop it into my Tytn and go from there. Its .10 cents a min vs $2.00 a min for roaming. You have to have your phone unlocked, which if you are on these forums, more than likely you already do. So now I just have a spare sim in my sim carrier that I swap into my phone when I am going to be in the states for an extended period. I thought about forwarding my CDN number to the US number, but never tried it. I just swap the card out once a day and check for any new messages.

kevwo said:
lbcoder - we have winmo hater! lol well at least i had my tytn2 running better than so many iphones....yeah i'm gonna hate on iphone
outsider787 - how did android run on the tytn2? was it laggy? i have to assum it was, as just its own rom was quite laggy. i agree tho, that it is frustrating to try to do things on the screen with your finger that was designed for a stylus
Capt Fiero - keep me/us informed with how the testing of CoPilot goes! with tomtom, i could just take my sim when travelling in the US and still navigate (atlantic city to ny!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you make a TyTn2 run better than an iPhone? That's ridiculous.....My friend still sticks to his TyTn 2 as it is a work phone and he regularly shows me his 'iphone-esque' tweaks, which are laughably jerky and unresponsive. There are a ton of things I could do on my old iPhone 3G that I couldn't do nearly as well on my TyTn2/Touch Diamond/Touch ProAthena/Exec, but that's another issue.....
As for the dream? Well I don't drive so I can't comment on SATnav software, but I'm very happy with the device as an internet-centric phone, and with the HTC IME and Handcent it's a joy to text on. I'd still swap it for a 3GS anyday though, as I'm not a humongous geek, just a lover of multimedia and the internet and the 3Gs provides a great browsing, texting, video, mp3, camera and video experience....
.....shame that the first batch are apparently getting so hot they're bursting into flames.
Anyway, enough of the iPhone crap, let's be straight here: If you LIKE windows mobile and you LIKE the way it works, get a Windows Mobile device. For what it does you can't fault it. If you want Microsoft Services such as hotmail and Live Messenger it will always be the better choice. Android will NEVER be Windows Mobile; it is a completely different platform with different aspirations and an open environment, driven by third-party developers. Personally I prefer the Android Email Client to the Windows Mobile one, but I've only owned a Windows Mobile device up to version 6.1 so the email client may have improved. Also I have a Gmail account.
The major selling point for me of the two is the capacitive screen of the G1. I just cannot imagine going back to resistive screens and styluses so no matter how much WinMo improves it will never get my support until it becomes compatible with capacitive screens.
just my thoughts....

just just got root access. can finally bluetooth. let's see android create 'Age of Empires" and make it as addictive as winmo version. robo defense is only fun to a certain extent

Before this turns into an Android vs WinMo war, they both have there big pluses and both have drawbacks. It boils down to personal preference and desired use. For some its just a a really hard decision. Whenever I make a WinMo/Android thread, I always state that both have there advantages and both have there drawbacks. So don't let the other side of the fence bait you into an argument that has no place on this forum.

I just got an error when trying to reply to your PM, nothing private so here it is.
The following errors occurred with your submission:
kevwo has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.
If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove kevwo from the recipient list and send the message again.
I never did get Wifi teather to work, and contacts I found it easier just to copy all the contacts to the sim then move the sim to the dream and copy them from the sim to the dream contact list. (over 200 contacts so any other way would take way too long)
kevwo said:
Capt Fiero said:
I don't know about root being "unlocked" or not. I have not tried that yet. I have not gone across the line with the Dream yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool
thanks again for the help. just trying to bluetooth contacts from Tytn to dream now.
and attempting to get WiFi tether to work. sigh...i guess all this work is part of the fun of a new phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i have almost 400, i dont think it could all fit on my sim tho

Well you other option and its a long way around but, if you have
MS Outlook
a Gmail Account and understand what a CSV value is, you are in luck.
Open Microsoft Outlook (must have your windows Mobile contacts synced)
Use the MS Outlook export wizard to export your contacts into a CSV file. Save it to your desktop.
Now open your Gmail account, go to the import wizard, import that CSV file into Gmail.
Now grab your Android phone, enter your Gmail account info, then tell it to sync your contacts from your GMAIL account to your phone.
Presto Bingo, your phone now has all the accounts that were on your Windows Mobile / Outlook account in your Android. This will work regardless if you have 20 accounts or 1000 accounts.

kevwo said:
just just got root access. can finally bluetooth. let's see android create 'Age of Empires" and make it as addictive as winmo version. robo defense is only fun to a certain extent
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

dude, what's ur problem

kevwo said:
dude, what's ur problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me that HE's the troll...

kevwo said:
just just got root access. can finally bluetooth. let's see android create 'Age of Empires" and make it as addictive as winmo version. robo defense is only fun to a certain extent
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Robo Defense is only fun until you find the XML files that store your scores/unlocks Couldn't they use some sort of encoding to make cheating a bit more difficult for root users? All I wanted was to save my progress between phone wipes, but ended up giving myself 90 gazillion points and unlocking all achievements.

lbcoder said:
Seems to me that HE's the troll...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. serious. oh well.
you can hack it like that? wow! but is that more fun than actually OBTAINING the achievement yourself? those black planes are damn near impossible to shoot down its frustrating.
anyone actually play AoE on winmo?

kevwo said:
lol. serious. oh well.
you can hack it like that? wow! but is that more fun than actually OBTAINING the achievement yourself? those black planes are damn near impossible to shoot down its frustrating.
anyone actually play AoE on winmo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I entertained myself with AoE on an old PDA on a plane flight one time. Was nice to have. Android games have a long way to come, but compare teh age of the platform to WM and I feel hopeful.
All in all, I prefer android to the current WM (well I only got to 6.1 before I sold my tilt last year), but if there are apps you depend on, it can be a tough switch to make.

What Makes Android Better Than Windows Mobile?

I see a lot of threads about Android.
I've never tried converting or even seen it in action but have a question.
How is Android better than Windows Mobile Professional?
Also how is it worse?
Or is it just different?

All I can say is 'try it to believe it.'
I can talk about it on and on, but you are not going to realize what you can get until you try it.

sshark said:
All I can say is 'try it to believe it.'
I can talk about it on and on, but you are not going to realize what you can get until you try it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
second that. easy enough to dump on your sdcard without even touching your current winmo setup, so try it out and see.

jimt007 said:
I see a lot of threads about Android.
I've never tried converting or even seen it in action but have a question.
How is Android better than Windows Mobile Professional?
Also how is it worse?
Or is it just different?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its just better. Really.

Main thing for me, besides that its totally better, is that its finger based. No more silly stylus....

+1.
I just recently went all the way back to the stock sprint 6.1 rom just to see if I could ever live like that again. After spending an hour or so gathering cabs and tweaking everything just to get it to a comfortable state, I realized that all of the things I was trying to do are pretty much already done in even the most basic android builds.
It does come down to preference I suppose, but for me, just signing into my account upon booting android beats digging around for a WMMarketplace cab on a crippled IE browser, cumbersome setups for things like Windows Live, setting up and scheduling active sync, installing replacements for almost every default part of WM.
I really did love windows mobile for a long time. It's certainly one of -if not- the most customizable platforms. If you don't necessarily like how something works in WM, chances are you can do something about it. But that can take time. I was never really that interested in scripting out one of those huge uc files way back when.
The way everything works so well together in android without getting in your way is fantastic, but stop reading this and just trying it!

If you want to get your feet wet:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/58383/android.exe
A self-extracting zip file I made to get a friend running Android. It's a all-in-one Haret of zenulator's 1.6 Donut. Just extract the Android folder it contains to your Secure Digital card, then run Haret.exe in Windows Mobile File Explorer. Then hit Run.
For porting contacts from WinMobile to Android, check this:
http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=138636&topic=14299

You know what? I'm going to quote myself, from another thread:
Pandemic187 said:
Personally, I like Android better than Windows Mobile because:
1. It's significantly faster for me
2. There's more freedom in terms of tweaking it
3. I think it has a MUCH better notification system than WinMo
4. I like the integration with GMail (better than WinMo's Exchange support) and other Google services
5. It has an app market!
These are pretty self explanatory, but I just love the notification system of Android. I was pleasantly surprised to see a weather alert appear in my notification bar after I downloaded the Weather.com app the other day. Everything appears there - including your appointments on your Google Calendar, texts, e-mails - everything. I think it's just great how it's all unified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

jnadke said:
If you want to get your feet wet:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/58383/android.exe
A self-extracting zip file I made to get a friend running Android. It's a all-in-one Haret of zenulator's 1.6 Donut. Just extract the Android folder it contains to your Secure Digital card, then run Haret.exe in Windows Mobile File Explorer. Then hit Run.
For porting contacts from WinMobile to Android, check this:
http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=138636&topic=14299
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
I guess I'm not patient enough to continue to experiment so I just deleted the file and am back to using Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.

jimt007 said:
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Power Button = Menu Button
Camera Button = Back Button
Hang-Up Button (long press) = Silence, Airplane, Shutdown
Those should work on every Vogue.

cybik said:
Power Button = Menu Button
Camera Button = Back Button
Hang-Up Button (long press) = Silence, Airplane, Shutdown
Those should work on every Vogue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to give a friend the package above, but he is on a Touch Pro. Would this be good for him to try? or is there something else better?

TheKartus said:
Main thing for me, besides that its totally better, is that its finger based. No more silly stylus....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol..huh? I have used Windows Mobile forever and cannot remember the last time I used the stylus...in fact, the only time I use it, is to reset the phone through the little hole.

jimt007 said:
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
I guess I'm not patient enough to continue to experiment so I just deleted the file and am back to using Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well..........after reading some of the replies I reinstalled Android.
Not to belabor the point but I still don't like it as much as Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
I would be losing to many things I'm very pleased with for a change to a different operating system.
It's back off again, I'm staying with Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
If I ever want Android I'll buy an Android phone.

I agree with you about Android, it's not something I would use, but that's just me.
I wouldn't go back to 6.1 though, I'll stay with 6.5.x, it's a lot more finger friendly. The UI graphics on Android is decade behind everybody else. I would need a microscope to see what's on there. That's why HTC developed its own UI. Knowing Google, they probably can make up that decade in a week, but for now its Winmo.
PS you might want to try one of the port/build with SenseUI.

stopthebus said:
I agree with you about Android, it's not something I would use, but that's just me.
I wouldn't go back to 6.1 though, I'll stay with 6.5.x, it's a lot more finger friendly. The UI graphics on Android is decade behind everybody else. I would need a microscope to see what's on there. That's why HTC developed its own UI. Knowing Google, they probably can make up that decade in a week, but for now its Winmo.
PS you might want to try one of the port/build with SenseUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each their own I suppose - but it really sounds like your config is off or you're using some odd build if you "need a microscope to see what's on there".

plemen said:
To each their own I suppose - but it really sounds like your config is off or you're using some odd build if you "need a microscope to see what's on there".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to be able to increase the font size on Android. I've play around with both 120 and 160 and different resolutions, but unable to increase the font size to something usable. Any help would be appreciated. I've been scouring the net reading up on Android and trying different builds (last one was eclair 2.0.1) because I was offered the Droid for Xmas. After all the readings and research, I turn down the offer in favor of the trusty old Vogue (being made by Motorola is another reason; every Motorola phones I got, I had to open them up and super glued everything down).
I do appreciate some pointers on increasing the font/widgets size on these test builds.

crobs808 said:
lol..huh? I have used Windows Mobile forever and cannot remember the last time I used the stylus...in fact, the only time I use it, is to reset the phone through the little hole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I often got annoyed with certain apps I put in, certain games, or menus and just brought out the stylus.

Well, one thing you always have to keep in mind running Android on the Vogue, is that it is not native to the Vogue. So, there is always going to be little imperfections. I was so impressed by Android on the Vogue, that I bought a G1. So now I run WM6.5 on the Vogue, and Cyanogen's ROMs on my G1. I really will never go back to WM. The only reason I use it now is because I have a contract with Verizon that somebody else pay for. If you really want to be blown away by Android, go to a store and play with a native Android phone. I find content is way more accessible for Android. For an OS that has been out for a very small fraction of the time that WM has been out, it's incredible. Lol, I'm rambling now, point is, try a native Android phone if the Vogue port doesn't suit you. Don't give up on it too easily.

Hello
I am using NFSFAN latest rom on my vogue.Have not tried any android as yet.Honestly,I have not followed it atall.So I am a complete noob to android platform.
So can anybody point me where I can get all the guidanceThanks.

Wow! I don’t mean to sound patronizing but I am genuinely impressed by the quality of responses to this question. Someone actually dared to ask a question about comparing WM vs. Android and there wasn’t any of the typical flame war style responses. Thanks guys! Just one more reason why I like the XDA forums.
I have been looking for a clear and concise answer (or partial answer) on this exact topic myself. I was hoping to get a quantifiable “here’s why I like Android” or “here’s why I like WM” response and I finally found something in this discussion.
I find that a certain anti-Microsoft sentiment often clouds these discussions to the point where they are not useful.
I have been using WM for *years* and develop applications for it. I am also supporting over 50+ Windows Mobile-based devices in the enterprise (warehouse & sales force automation apps). So when people come out and say stuff like “WM is slow, bloated and buggy” I find it an unhelpful response. I just have to chalk their comments up to anti-Microsoft sentiment that is so popular these days.
From this discussion I have a partial conclusion. It seems that the main difference between WM and Android are from a “user experience” perspective. Both of them seem to be reliable robust platforms from an OS perspective. The problem is that the WM interface is dated and heavily stylus oriented. Microsoft’s response to this is to make things “bigger” but not to radically rethink the user interface.
Windows Mobile in its present form bears an uncanny resemblance to Pocket PC 2002. This was designed to compete (and win) against the then popular PalmOS.
Android represents a complete rethink from a user interface perspective. On top of that companies like HTC add their own stuff like SenseUI (on Android) and TouchFLO (on WM) that change the user experience some more. So sometimes that makes the discussion more about the phone manufacturer (HTC vs. Samsung for example) then about the platform itself.
Microsoft is in a tough spot with WM right now. There is a huge install base of mobile business apps running on industrialized PDA’s (stuff like the MC75, MC55, Intermec CN50, etc, etc). The Purolator guys use WM for proof-of-delivery. These types of apps are often custom developed, expensive and have long life cycles. They are not sexy but they get work done.
Radically rethinking the WM user interface would likely break a lot of these types of applications. Everyone knows when switching to Android that their existing WM apps will not run. But everyone expects their existing WM apps from 1998 to run unmodified on the latest version of WM (and surprisingly they often do).
So how does Microsoft keep WM dominant in the business sector while at the same time making it “exciting and sexy” in the rapidly changing consumer marketplace?
Tough spot indeed. I wonder what they will do. I do love the competition from Android (and iPhone) and expect to see cool stuff from WM in the future. I just hope it doesn’t break too many of my 10+ year old apps ;-)
Regards,
The Fish

Win 8 Metro Poll and discussion - No FUD aloud!!

Righty folks, heres a quick poll, I think the results will be very interesting, anyone is welcome to vote
The discussion however is for objective views and opinions from people who have actually used and tested the OS for a reasonable amount of time, that's to say more than a hand full of days!
Views like "ive read" Ive heard" "Its crap" mean precisely bugger all and are not welcome. Anyone who binned it after 5 min or couldn't be bothered to understand it because it didn't have a start button need not bother to grace us with your presence.
This is not a place to spread FUD, start flame fests or simply come on to moan about it.
Im not saying we all must agree, im saying we need to be able to support that opinion with evidence, we are after all, Microsoft testers, it would be good to support one another and share what we have learnt and help others out.
Let the fun and games commence!

After using consumer preview since its release i have grown to love the interface. I have to use windows 7 on my college's computers and the start button feels so counter intuitive. All of the old functionality still remains if anyone wants to use it. Also, the os as a whole is much faster than 7. My two biggest complaints about windows 8 are the random crashes when exiting sleep and the general lack of drivers, both of which are expected during a beta stage.
Sent from my handheld Linux computer using electromagnetic radiation.

I installed windows 8 the day the consumer preview came out and overall I have to say it’s been a positive experience. There was a slight learning curve, nothing that a few hours and reading the proper documentation could not fix. Although I feel this was slightly due to the fact the charm bar does not seem to respond very well with two monitors, but in all fairness Ctrl + c works fine and I am more comfortable with shortcuts.
A few things I did the metro icons were not very crisp on a large display which is something that I am very nitpicky about. I also wish there was more of a windows phone influence with regards to the metro apps, currently a lot of the apps are just a long horizontal scrolling applications. I would of much preferred titled sections on a continuous loop that when clicked the title you are moved to that section like in wp7.
Currently scrolling around looks ugly and a little clumsy for instance the weather app to me looks horrible. All in all not really that much has changed its is still really just windows with an addition screen that doubles as a start screen and a way to communicate more information then there previously has been in windows.

indeed, ive got a few driver issues as well, but as you say, that is to be expected in its current form.
multi monitor setups are a big issue, trying to get the "zones" can be a bit of a pain, I dare say you'd get used to it but I think this could be easily overcome and is a design fault that needs fixed
Ideally id like to see metro being transferable to different monitors, whilst maintaining the primary monitor else where.
Something else I agree on is the Windows Phone influence, there needs to be more of it, I realise this is beta still but the people tile is terrible when compared to WP, id presume you would allow groups as well...
Something else id like to see imported to this idea is the ability to sync text messages in to the people tile as well, making the Metro UI an extension of WP, their half way there already and would also provide a convent backup solution for WP. The size of txt messages could easily be transferred when your live account syncs every now and then, meaning you would be able to get home, put your WP down, fire up Windows and instantly be able to work with metro containing all the info available on your phone.
In my opinion, if there going to join the platforms then they may as well do it propperly.

I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.

HaVoKeR said:
Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hows that? im unsure where your coming from on this one as it runs anything ive tried that worked on Win 7 so how is it Limited and annoying?
HaVoKeR said:
It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I presume you mean the Metro UI is rarely used? From what ive seen the key to getting the most out of Metro is to set it up, at the moment there are limited "apps" which make use of the full live tile function but it will get there, the email, messaging , photos, calendar, Music all work fine (all be it we cant use music properly outside of the US just now)
HaVoKeR said:
Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how its more limited? can you explain that? Metro is just a layer on top of the desktop, personally I cant see any less functionality.

HaVoKeR said:
I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Howso? I use all the older programs that I've always used, It's not limited and it's not an annoyance. How are they trying to emulate Launch Control when the Metro UI dates back to before Launch Control (It's been there since WP7's release which was before Lion's)? I actually use both desktops fairly equally.
Edit: I actually have a correction to that Metro UI has been there since Microsoft released the Zune Player software for PC and Zune devices. So it's effectively been around before Launch Control and Lion.
Answering the poll:
Over 2 weeks and Overall Like. I love being able to see everything at a glance when I start Windows, I love the Metro Applications (Especially the Live Communication Applications). It truly is a step forward from the old, dated menu based interface and a step forward that I welcome. I used to switch OSes every few months because I'd get bored with how Windows looked and how limited I was with customizing it, but 8's changes give me the integration and customization that I like I love the Google Calendar sync, I finally have one calendar across all my devices ^_^, Can't wait to see what changes in RC. I just hope they don't bring back the Start Orb/Menu.
Edit: I would love to at least be able to post status changes to social networks in people though and I'm especially hoping for a Windows 8 Google Voice client so I don't have to open my web browser or look at my phone (especially if my phone's dead) to continue sending/receiving messages. I was going to make one in Developer's Preview but I couldn't find a suitable third-party API that supported receiving messages and I couldn't figure out XAML or the Metro Designer...
Also Dazza: I agree, I don't see any less functionality. Rather I see an increase of productivity and functionality.

I couldn't agree more,
The People Hub on here is pretty bad, course its a preview app so I would hope there will be some significant changes. In fact to make it easy for them, I want WP7 People hub on Windows 8, simple as that.
The challenge would be horizontal scrolling as apposed to vertical given that most of us have wide screen, at the moment its a huge waste of space and not very useful.
The messenger app could do with being linked in to FB in much the same way as WP7, in fact once again, just bring it all over, The people, messaging, email etc are probable some of the most efficient designs ive ever seen on a phone, given that Metro is supposed to be a quick efficient way of doing stuff they would do well to keep that the same and let outlook etc take care of the nitty gritty side to things.
edit:
Looks like that results stacking up, by an large the biggest portion of folk like it, and out of those that don't most of those in % terms haven't used it for very long at all. Just goes to show!

I like it alot. I'd be using it as my main OS already if drivers were available for a couple of my devices.
I've always loved the WP7 UI so Metro is great for me. A little bit more work needs doing on the integration of the desktop with Metro though. Just to make things a little more fluid.
I've got Windows 8 installed on both my main PC and my HP TM2 laptop so have given the touch gestures a go too which work really well.

adamwebb28 said:
I like it alot. I'd be using it as my main OS already if drivers were available for a couple of my devices.
I've always loved the WP7 UI so Metro is great for me. A little bit more work needs doing on the integration of the desktop with Metro though. Just to make things a little more fluid.
I've got Windows 8 installed on both my main PC and my HP TM2 laptop so have given the touch gestures a go too which work really well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was reading on the MS blog that whilst it will run on win7 touch hardware, win 8 hardware has been tweeked even further, have you noticed any issues, especially around fingers moving on to the screen from the sides to quickly? and tap lag (typing to quick an missing letters!)?

dazza9075 said:
i was reading on the MS blog that whilst it will run on win7 touch hardware, win 8 hardware has been tweeked even further, have you noticed any issues, especially around fingers moving on to the screen from the sides to quickly? and tap lag (typing to quick an missing letters!)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll be honest, I haven't done much with using the on screen keyboard. But certainly not had any problems with swiping onto the screen.
The couple of times I have used the on screen keyboard it hasn't felt much better than the old touch keyboard in windows 7.

For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.

Akiainavas said:
For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what your saying, but I question your expectation of it.
potentially it displays dozens of "informative apps" opening each app separately then gives you more detail. Consider Metro to be similar to your mobile phone, can you display several windows at once on your phone? unless your using WM probably not but what your phone does is displays you lots of bits of information usually very well. Metro takes this idea and gives it to your PC, a single key press will give you access to stacks of information at a glance, another key press gives you multi windowed windows, or if the metro app is any good you can fire it up in full screen.
Metro is a tool that on the desktop actually works great with impressive levels of productivity, metro on a tablet allows you a great level of finger friendly UI, desktop remains there all be it in a slightly less finger friendly fashion (bumping up the DPI can help here tho!)

dazza9075 said:
what your phone does is displays you lots of bits of information usually very well. Metro takes this idea and gives it to your PC, a single key press will give you access to stacks of information at a glance,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, yeah that's actually pretty useful. Would be great if desktop apps could create and maintain a Live Tile as well, so i could check my mail count etc with Windows key, but not necessarily read it in full-screen metro mode. They can't do that at the moment, but who knows, maybe later.

Akiainavas said:
Well, yeah that's actually pretty useful. Would be great if desktop apps could create and maintain a Live Tile as well, so i could check my mail count etc with Windows key, but not necessarily read it in full-screen metro mode. They can't do that at the moment, but who knows, maybe later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you mean getting your mail program to display on the icon information about whats going on? wouldnt think there is much space to get any real info but if you pin your mail program (for the purpose of all my posts ill say that all desktop programs are programs and metro programs are apps) to your task bar then if the program has been designed correctly then it will display some limited info, outlook works great for me, and tells me how many emails i have sitting there.

HaVoKeR said:
I have used it for about 3 weeks now but i am still unsure whether it should be released along with the desktop OS when the RC comes out. tbh I see what they're trying to do, but it's a very bad move for desktop / laptops (unless touchscreen). Compatibility to older windows programs is limited and it's more of an annoyance than anything helpful. They tried to emulate the launch control in Mac with extra features, but i fail to see how this is revolutionary to desktop pcs and such. It just gave you two desktops, one of which you'll rarely use. Of course there are many other things I can complain about, but don't want to rant up this thread lol. Sure it looks pretty and all, but it's more limited than win7 and I don't see how that's a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The UI is very different from the Mac and doesn't even work the same. Not sure where you got that - other than all touch interfaces use Icons....
Compatibility is outstanding. I was shocked at how many of my normal use applications ran perfect. For a Beta of a major OS change, the compatibility is excellent.
It's Win 7 AND more new features.
Win 8 will win you over (unless your an Apple fan) once you see how people utilize the OS enhancements.
---------- Post added at 03:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 AM ----------
Akiainavas said:
For tablet: like it very very much.
For desktop: dislike.
I will never use metro on my desktop PC. Why ? Because it cant display more than 1 app ( nope, 1/4 sized app pinned to left or right side does not count for me ). I will never use metro apps on desktop pc, and i think most people wont...so what is it there for ?
I have nothing against metro, and i like the tiles design. But using it on a desktop PC is just not practical for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you are talking about. You use the term "app" which to me is one of the little micro applications we use on tablets. Or, are you talking about applications like Streets and Trips, Excel, etc... If you're talking about Metro specifically, then maybe I see what you mean, but I've had multiple ones displayed and running on my laptop although in Metro the sizing is set to 1/3. I did some work with multiple windows between IRFan and Excel and used the old desktop to customize the sizing of the windows. So, again, not sure why you say you can't do it.???

Those same under the hood enhancements could have been made to Windows 7 while keeping and enhancing the Windows 7 UI and called Windows 8 on release (or even a Service pack FFS, look how big XP SP2 was).
It has nothing to do with Apple. It has nothing to do with under the hood improvements that could have been made to 7, anyways (like going from Vista to 7, hello...). It has to do with the jarring and otherwise terrible user experience this release has on non-touch PCs and also for multile monitor users (who are becoming more prevelant with budget graphics cards allowing this and LCD monitors being so cheap nowadays).
I've ran the beta on its own PC. It's terrible for desktop use and will deserve the reviews I'm almost sure it will get when it releases to non-touch users later this year.
Compatibility is always excellent because the Win32 API is forward compatible. There's nothing great, exciting, or unforseen about that. Solaris is UNIX and it has the same backward and forward API compatibility very similar to Windows.
They destroyed Multi-Tasking and generally destroyed the way people use their computers for the sold purpose of pushing their own dumb-down UI metaphor down people's throats. Metro wastes a ton of screen real estate. Look bow big the banners are in many of those apps, and how much odd whitespace is in some of them (Email app, Pictures app, etc.).
Then they throw a highly curated/bastardized version of the explorer shell in as an app and tell us "see, the desktop is still there" even though only Metro apps will be sold directly (and updated directly) via the Windows Store and they're basically deprecating Win32/MFC development, among other things.
I have a hard time calling this a multi-tasking OS, especially if you sit in Metro most of the time.
Sorry, but I'm not sure what YOU'RE talking about.

oh, your here as well, thanks for the constructive feedback, I trust you are using the feedback options within Win 8 to provide MS with your deep insights in to the workings of their BETA product that you asked to test for them
Oh, and Desktop isn't an app, its the desktop, its no different than before and ive not found anything that doesn't work yet strangely enough as i said on the other thread, multi tasking works fine
But anyhow, im not going to bother replying to it all as you seem to have completely made your mind up without really understanding what its all about

dazza9075 said:
oh, your here as well, thanks for the constructive feedback, I trust you are using the feedback options within Win 8 to provide MS with your deep insights in to the workings of their BETA product that you asked to test for them
Oh, and Desktop isn't an app, its the desktop, its no different than before and ive not found anything that doesn't work yet strangely enough as i said on the other thread, multi tasking works fine
But anyhow, im not going to bother replying to it all as you seem to have completely made your mind up without really understanding what its all about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stopped giving feedback when they stopped listening to and implementing the most trivial QoL changes in their products.
The Desktop doesn't even have a functioning start menu comparable to Windows Vista or 7 yet you somehow feel compelled to believe it's functionally identical.
Fine is in the eye of the beholder. Being thrown from Desktop to full screen metro apps and only being able to multi-task Metro apps by pinning one to 1/4the screen is a terrible compromise bordering on laughable.
Oh, and have you tried using Windows 8 on a non-touch laptop with only a Trackpad? Laughable...

N8ter said:
I stopped giving feedback when they stopped listening to and implementing the most trivial QoL changes in their products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why bother downloading it, its for testing purposes only
you have this so unbelievably wrong

The Windows 8 Mobile Office Deal-Breaker

So, first post here..
Firstly, I have used Windows Mobile 6 Professional since it came out, and before that, 5, and before that, i was on mobile 2003..
I stopped being interested in Windows Phones when HTC abandoned their loyal customers to try and create that little iPhone experience, which for some reason doesnt seem to get old for some people.. ever..
the last phone i bought was a Jasjam, and its what i still use, after giving up on the phenomenon completely, and only use my phone for calling & sms anymore..
I still wouldnt buy a phone today, as there is no phone on the market i like.. and i dont care for Android... I'd like to wait for the Firefox OS.. but business duties call.. and I need to get a new phone..
I walked into a Nokia shop today, and looked at the 920, opened it up, i totally hate the Windows 8 experience.. HATE... but I tried to look past that crap and go right to the Office Programs.. office 2013... wow.. u'd think that was pretty advanced by now... i mean.. u would, right?
I opened it up and to my dismay, found an Office that was intentionally missing most all basic office functionality..
Word functions like a freebie text editor..
there is no way to add even so much as a single bullet point to your word document without opening a specific "outline" template" which is populated with 50 random useless bullets..
So... The way i see it.. Office mobile 8 is intentionally designed without 1/10 of the functionally office mobile users had in windows mobile 2003, for the sole purpose of forcing people to upload all of their documents to Microsoft cloud drive, so they can look over the world's documents, and take from it a profitable future business plan for themselves.. stealing users information & privacy, & Plans which influence the world, from the world's thinkers.. as they obviously cant think for themselves
It doesn't have Bullet Points OR Numbered Points? really? things found in 2003? no tab, no outline format detection, no toolbar, literally NOTHING any business user or thinker would need..
its more useless than your average plain text editor
obviously, taking away such very basic tools forces them to use cloud services.. giving you access to what marketing, development, and R&D teams would die for.. an endless stream of private personal & corporate information
they thereby create an experience the end user hates so much, he/she resorts to things like Microsoft cloud services.. their office 365, and their own windows 8 tablet
trying to increase sales of their office 365 cloud products, giving everyone access to their documents ONLY if our personal data is first transferred through their own online servers for review, inspection, idea fraud, & theft
and if the customer doesn't like that options, he is then forced into option 2, spend money on a Windows 8 tablet device, and learn to carry it around along with their Windows 8 phone, again, just to be able to do the very most basic of office-related things
Office mobile has taken 20 steps backwards, and does not do ANYTHING that at least 10 other office Substitutes can do way better on Android or iPhone
Powerpoint cant even create a simple slide, a function at least 10 other office alternatives can do on Android & iPhone..
these are the cheapest, dirtiest tactics available to a CEO.. Steve Ballmer should be fired
why dont they give us all a Windows7-like experience on the Mobile phone, and re-take the Lion's share of the market... rather than letting Stevie Ballmer tank the entire company with his little hair-salon tactics
They need to stop trying to force their Windows8 agenda down everyone's throats, and try giving users an experience just for the sake of a good experience.. or does that not compute with their 1950's-style corporate planning?
Why dont they try creating a Windows phone that is as useful and functional and welcoming as the Windows 7 platform itself.. that's what we want
an OFFICE which functions at least similarly to the Competitions handling of MS's own Office files & formats..
and something which says "2013", not "1913"
honestly, their office 13 for windows 8 phones belongs more in a horse & buggy setting, than in direct competition with companies like HTC, Android, Samsung & iPhone
I went into a phone shop ready to buy a Windows8 phone today, opened office.. and walked out contemplating switching to Apple OS for my Desktop computing
Anyone Have Any Solutions?
Does anyone know if Programs like:
Kingsoft Office
Dataviz Documents to Go
Thinkfree Office Mobile
Google Docs
Quickoffice Pro
Mobile Office
etc...
Work with Windows 8 Mobile as found on Nokia 920?
I would like to get rid of that crappy office thing on the 920 and replace it with something useful
or does anyone know of a full-functioning, feature-rich Office Substitute?
I would like it to:
- Be able to Create PPT Slide shows, Edit them, Re-order them, Play & Control them, etc..
- Have complex Word Docx & Excel XLSX Creation & Editing functions, with lots of options & toolbars, etc
- Be Intuitive and make good use of space & movements etc
- Function similarly to Windows Office 2003, AT LEAST
thanks

vetvito said:
Nope absolutely no alternatives on WP8
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not entirely true..
I found software called "Pix2PPT" to Create PPT Slideshows on your Windows Phone 8 from photos, images, or graphics you have on your phone...
You can Add Text Titles & Subtitles, Change Orientation, & Edit Transition Timing
You can save or Upload the Slideshow..
I dont know how customizable the text is, but at least its something worth looking into..
You may be able to find something to save a text file as an Image, and then import it as a pic... maybe.. i dunno
The free version is fully functional but limited to 5 slides..
but it only costs 1.99
anyway.. we'll see of the software community bothers making anything for winP8 or not..
I tend to believe microsofts own self-imposed limitations will equate to their own self-imposed rejection & failure

another note about Google.. I have over 8,000 unread messages in my Gmail inbox, with no way of marking them all as read or deleting them all without going through over 80 pages one by one..
they've been there for years... i dont care what they say.. I want them gone..
i mean.. what kind of company does that to people?
I've complained about that to google about 20 times SINCE Gmail was in its early beta testing stage..
ridiculous..
so.. i'm thinking Googles just another Microsoft.. too big and self-inflated to care about making things useful or enjoyable for people.. and just hell bent on doing things their own way
Megalomania & Narcissism seem to be 2 mandatory qualities to running a software company

chinarabbit said:
another note about Google.. I have over 8,000 unread messages in my Gmail inbox, with no way of marking them all as read or deleting them all without going through over 80 pages one by one..
they've been there for years... i dont care what they say.. I want them gone..
i mean.. what kind of company does that to people?
I've complained about that to google about 20 times SINCE Gmail was in its early beta testing stage..
ridiculous..
so.. i'm thinking Googles just another Microsoft.. too big and self-inflated to care about making things useful or enjoyable for people.. and just hell bent on doing things their own way
Megalomania & Narcissism seem to be 2 mandatory qualities to running a software company
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can fix this pretty quick:
1. login to gmail
2. go to settings >filters > Create new
3. in the to field, put your email address
4. Click create filter with this search
5. Check the box for mark as read - along with any other bulk action you'd like (skip inbox, etc)
6. Check the box for "also apply this filter to X matching conversations
7. Click create filter
8. It will take a little time to process
9. Go back to settings > filters and delete the filter
10. Fresh start!
It's a bit of a process and any incoming messages while you have the filter active may also fall victim to the same process, so be sure to check your "All Mail" view after you delete the filter to make sure you don't miss anything.
After this, you can create filters for junk email that you dont need to actually read as they come - I have all those online shopping emails going into a label, banking into another, family, etc. I rarely get an email in my inbox that doesn't require my attention and response.
And yes, setting up filters and labels is a lot of work, but I think the idea behind this is that it's customizable for any user's needs - the user just has to take the initiative.
Hope this helps!

qocarekeri said:
You can fix this pretty quick:
1. login to gmail
2. go to settings >filters > Create new
3. in the to field, put your email address
4. Click create filter with this search
5. Check the box for mark as read - along with any other bulk action you'd like (skip inbox, etc)
6. Check the box for "also apply this filter to X matching conversations
7. Click create filter
8. It will take a little time to process
9. Go back to settings > filters and delete the filter
10. Fresh start!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WHOA HOHO!!
wow.. that was awesome!
I hated Gmail for the longest time..
I cant believe they are finally all gone..
thanks alot.. that was solid...

Hey... qocarekeri.... do u work for QuickOffice?
do you know if there are any plans to make QuickOffice Pro available for Windows Phone 8?
thanks..

chinarabbit said:
Hey... qocarekeri.... do u work for QuickOffice?
do you know if there are any plans to make QuickOffice Pro available for Windows Phone 8?
thanks..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you <3 gmail again - it's a pretty neat tool
I do work for Google on the Quickoffice team (I'm the support manager ). We don't have any specific plans that we can share at this time - we're not able to comment on product plans until the information is officially made public. If we do announce plans one way or the other, we'll definitely post updates on our social pages (Google +, Facebook, & Twitter).

Wow this thread got a lot shorter when all the rambling/ranting and uselessness was weeded out. I left the one bit of information that might be useful to someone someday. Closing this now. Everyone behave in the future.
Thanks,
-DSB