Database Users

2005 will be launched in Feb 2005

See this link for details:
http://www.mypda.com.cn/info/show_info.asp?infoid=1491[/url]

Anonymous said:
See this link for details:
http://www.mypda.com.cn/info/show_info.asp?infoid=1491
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Appreciate the ++ search. One thing I have noticed is the inconsistency in the "Start button icon". Everyimage looked different!
I mean, this could be fake or even made up pics :roll:
Are we ready for another BGates newbie :roll:

You got that right Cyber mate.
Will the companies like FONO, Axiom, Comtel or Plug-ins void our warranty if we do decide to move to 2005 Mobile?

No it won't
Every Pocket PC release since CE2.11 (except for 2003SE) has comeout in the Spring. Along with new devices. This time will be no different.

after the win mobile 2005 comes out - will it be posible to upgrade our devices or they (the phone makers) should fit the win 2005 (by software changes) for the device first?
(as you guessed it - im new and my first device is the mini )

Looks to me like that start button is still the size of a pea - which means if you are using your hand on the home screen, its almost impossible to hit that in the corner. And this suposed to be a serious, native PHONE OS? Wow.....

skagen said:
Looks to me like that start button is still the size of a pea - which means if you are using your hand on the home screen, its almost impossible to hit that in the corner. And this suposed to be a serious, native PHONE OS? Wow.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've obviously never used WM2003. It's the same size as current version. You can touch the text or logo to access it and it's perfectly usable.
I would be nice to be proved wrong, but I very much doubt this will be made available on current devices. Their product life is just too short. It also looks like the UI is designed to use extra programmable menu buttons at the bottom of the screen, as on MS Smartphones. Few PPC PE devices have enough hardware buttons to support this.

Wrong. I have an I-mate Jam Phone (WM 2003SE). As I said, it is egnonomically retarded to make the HEART of entry into the device a tiny button crammed in one corner and taking up like 1/50th of the screen space.
If you were trying to make it harder to touch - you couldn't enough said.
And that is the START button? Wow! I'd love to know what Microsoft spends all their millions of dollars on usability budget on. That placement & size of the start button would get you an "F" if you were a student in design school. Its THAT elementary.
Its not just the "Start" button on the whole, the entire Win 2003 PPC OS is just very poorly sized considering that is suppesed to be a phone OS. Look at the notifications. You have to hit a thin ass line if you plan on turning it off. Want to close a windows, its a tiny ass x squeezed in the corner or a screen? I mean, hello.....
The should have tested these things with thumbs as well as styluses. Elementary design principles. Very elementary.
But that is exactly what heppens when you take a blinkered mentality ("we are Microsoft make Windows software for PC's". We must have a "Start" button - and put everything in there.") into the design of a thumb-operated phone.

skagen said:
Wrong. I have an I-mate Jam Phone (WM 2003SE). As I said, it is egnonomically retarded to make the HEART of entry into the device a tiny button crammed in one corner and taking up like 1/50th of the screen space.
If you were trying to make it harder to touch - you couldn't enough said.
And that is the START button? Wow! I'd love to know what Microsoft spends all their millions of dollars on usability budget on. That placement & size of the start button would get you an "F" if you were a student in design school. Its THAT elementary.
Its not just the "Start" button on the whole, the entire Win 2003 PPC OS is just very poorly sized considering that is suppesed to be a phone OS. Look at the notifications. You have to hit a thin ass line if you plan on turning it off. Want to close a windows, its a tiny ass x squeezed in the corner or a screen? I mean, hello.....
The should have tested these things with thumbs as well as styluses. Elementary design principles. Very elementary.
But that is exactly what heppens when you take a blinkered mentality ("we are Microsoft make Windows software for PC's". We must have a "Start" button - and put everything in there.") into the design of a thumb-operated phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
isn't that a matter of taste? i mean.. they COULD make the start button bigger but then maybe someone like I would say "hey its to big it takes up like ALL of the screen and i cant see my today screen" i for one have no problem using either the start button or the"x" button for closing using my thumb.
Maybe the best would be if one could maybe have like a stylus window (kinda like now) and a big button finger layout. just a thought.

It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.

Loboman said:
It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.
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I dont know any indusrty analyst who does not agree that these devices are converging - which has clear implications for software and OS makers: phone interface gets used often and requires seamless finger usage. Especially on devices with no physical phone keyboard! No rocket science required there.
And once you start selling OS software tilted "Windows Mobile 2003 Se for Mobile Phone", you're on the hook to delver something that works appropriately as a mobile phone OS! There is no escaping that one.
Ditto when your OS is designed for devices such as the Moto MPX and the Jam and the Eten 500. These are devices clearly made for those who are phone-oriented and will carry the device in their pocket everywhere - as opposed to the XDA II buyer who is more or a PDA and phone is just tacked on. Its in the Microsoft business plan to attack the market for such phone-like devices to challenge the treo and Blackberry - so they've gotta deliver credible phone ergonomics too!
I'd understand the omissions in 2002, maybe even 2003. But to come out with 2005 (when convergence is patently obvious and they are pushing heavily to be a phone OS) and they are still missing the boat with "Windows for PC" as the bedrock of their ergonomics?
As I said, I'd love to know what their user experience research budget is going on. A bunch of first year designs school students would have picked up on the obvious - as you yourself agree: if its a phone OS, you must have an credible option to go stylus-less, espcially for those primary phone options. As it is we are still at the level where dialers and today screen add-ons are legitamate commercial software. The OS should have presented a legitimate soultion there. That would be live Windows Longhorm coming out and they have a 3rd rate browser and a 3rd rate search engine as default in the OS. That's just not on - it's your primary interface and the OS must offer something up to par there, otherwise you are forcing users into slow and memory-eating add-ons such as Mobi Dial.

Loboman said:
It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr.. please come back when you know what you are talking about. Smartphone Edition doesn't have on screen buttons - how can it when it doesn't have a touch screen. You *CAN* do everything with one hand. That's the whole point of the programmable menus at the bottom, one of which kicks off the Start menu.

Anonymous said:
Loboman said:
It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr.. please come back when you know what you are talking about. Smartphone Edition doesn't have on screen buttons - how can it when it doesn't have a touch screen. You *CAN* do everything with one hand. That's the whole point of the programmable menus at the bottom, one of which kicks off the Start menu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To make this clearer - all the menus on Smartphone Editions are linked to hard buttons on the phone. So the everything can be done one handed, and the size of icons doesn't matter jack sh*t. As for PE 2005 - that's why the new menus have appeared at the bottom - to give the benefits of Smartphone Editione on Phone Edition - so you don't have to touch the screen or dig out your stylus for common operations.
Why the obsession with the start logo, when tapping anywhere on the text will do? And why do you need to do this to get to the "phone" functions you keep banging on about? That's what the Green, Red, Contact and Calendar hardware buttons (and the Smartphone style "soft" keys) are for. What's difficult about that? If that's too complicated for you - maybe you should to go back to a Nokeeeyah!

I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible. Which is not the same thing as saying that its a phone and all you need is phone access.
If you think people buy a £400 PPC phone for calendar and contacts programs alone, then you dont know much about the market. The other programs the device runs need to be better accessible.
I couldn't care less if microsoft groupies are offended - it is a fact that Nokia has a better grips on the software ergonimics. If it makes you emotional, too bad. I'm more concerned with the fact that MS needs to think beyond the cliche and ergonimics of a Windows PC when they are designing a PHONE.

skagen, you are "gay" Go jackoff to your garbage Symbian OS which is buggier than bloody hell.

And Mikee you're an As*Hol* :evil:

Its a phone, dude. If it hs got things wrong with it, that's just the facts. If I though Symbian phones was better, then I'd buy a Symbian phone - duh! The Jam is better hardware than what's available on Symbian, but actually OS is not as intutive as Symbian.
This Win Mobile for PPC phone OS has some major failings and omissions - which is the very reason the XDA Develpers exists: til fill the gaps. And BTW, , we are not here to be teenage PPC fan-boys.That's for the kids on Howard Forums. This website here is about realistic assessment of these devices.

skagen said:
I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just don't get it do you? They ARE accessible without using the stylus using the fully configurable HARDWARE BUTTONS, D-PAD navigation, on some models JOG DIALS and START and CLOSE BUTTONS, and with 2005, the SMART BUTTONS linked to the context sensitive menus at the bottom of the screen. Sheesh!

skagen said:
The Jam is better hardware than what's available on Symbian, but actually OS is not as intutive as Symbian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you actually watched someone using a Symbian PDA/Phone combo? Yes, that's right. If you're not dialing a number, it's time to tap tappity tap with the stylus. The P800-910 series have LESS buttons, and so LESS direct access to applications, (not to mention, many 1000 less aplications) than devices using PPC PE!

Anonymous said:
skagen said:
I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just don't get it do you? They ARE accessible without using the stylus using the fully configurable HARDWARE BUTTONS, D-PAD navigation, on some models JOG DIALS and START and CLOSE BUTTONS, and with 2005, the SMART BUTTONS linked to the context sensitive menus at the bottom of the screen. Sheesh!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hardware buttons are already allocated for things that people would use. So its silly to be telling people "you can remap your contacts button to dictionary". Ok then - so how am I gonna get the contacts quickly.
On the Tungsten E, for example hit the center button on the D pad and you can immediately start pagig through your applications. Try that on the Jam- you cant. That's lame.

Windows Mobile is not touch-screen-friendly

I have been using WM-based device for quite a while now. There is one thing that really annoys me: it is not created for fast and easy use with your fingers. Most of the time, i don't use my stylus but quickly go to the options with my finger(nails). The problem is: all the tabs/buttons/scroll bars/slide bars are so small, i always hit the wrong button.
There are some apps on the market, but all of these doing just half the trick: the user-friendliness always ends when you open messenging or the calander: you get stuck with the standard apps delivered by microsoft with all the tiny buttons etc. (the iPhone theme had this problem, spb shell has this problem too)
Well, this is what i want to ask: is there a developer here who can make a total GUI remake for easy and fast usage? I know it will take some time to make, but all WM5/WM6 user could benefit from it!

Never going to happen.
Any dev that remakes the GUI WILL charge for it, seeing as a LOT of hours would have to go into it in order to get a working prototype.
Just use the stylus. It's a much easier solution.

_Pumba_ said:
I have been using WM-based device for quite a while now. There is one thing that really annoys me: it is not created for fast and easy use with your fingers. Most of the time, i don't use my stylus but quickly go to the options with my finger(nails). The problem is: all the tabs/buttons/scroll bars/slide bars are so small, i always hit the wrong button.
There are some apps on the market, but all of these doing just half the trick: the user-friendliness always ends when you open messenging or the calander: you get stuck with the standard apps delivered by microsoft with all the tiny buttons etc. (the iPhone theme had this problem, spb shell has this problem too)
Well, this is what i want to ask: is there a developer here who can make a total GUI remake for easy and fast usage? I know it will take some time to make, but all WM5/WM6 user could benefit from it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use WisBar Advance Desktop. You can completely change things to whatever you want and however you want.

Try using the buttons. Most stuff can be done using the buttons. Easier to learn using the buttons than to wait for dev to make things bigger. Try SmartKey
or get a phone with bigger screen.

bombzhome said:
Use WisBar Advance Desktop. You can completely change things to whatever you want and however you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can i change the looks of the menu/settings with wisbar?
i have a HUGE screen compared to a normal phone and its a TOUCHSCREEN, i want to use it as much as possible !!!

_Pumba_ said:
can i change the looks of the menu/settings with wisbar?
i have a HUGE screen compared to a normal phone and its a TOUCHSCREEN, i want to use it as much as possible !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What phone do you have?
You can change the today screen and the top bar, along with the start menu-etc with wisbar.
For bigger keyboards, there are plenty of programs out there that you can use (intellipad-etc)

Have you looked at the iPhone simulation apps that are scattered all over?
I believe they even got a contacts app now that is finger-friendly.
The thing is this - WM is not "finger friendly", it does fine with touch screen.
The price for finger friendly interface is less information displayed at any given time. Many phones use 2.8 / 2.7 inch displays and that is tiny.
Personally I am willing to forgo the fingers (they dirty the screen anyway) and use hardware button and stylus when needed.
But to each his own and you may consider the real iPhone as your next device - it is designed to be used entirely with your fingers (doesn't even come with a stylus as far as I know)

levenum said:
Have you looked at the iPhone simulation apps that are scattered all over?
I believe they even got a contacts app now that is finger-friendly.
The thing is this - WM is not "finger friendly", it does fine with touch screen.
The price for finger friendly interface is less information displayed at any given time. Many phones use 2.8 / 2.7 inch displays and that is tiny.
Personally I am willing to forgo the fingers (they dirty the screen anyway) and use hardware button and stylus when needed.
But to each his own and you may consider the real iPhone as your next device - it is designed to be used entirely with your fingers (doesn't even come with a stylus as far as I know)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I checked out the contacts app and this is nice. You're point about more information on a screen is true, but i do think microsoft could have made it a bit more convenient.

_Pumba_ said:
I have been using WM-based device for quite a while now. There is one thing that really annoys me: it is not created for fast and easy use with your fingers. Most of the time, i don't use my stylus but quickly go to the options with my finger(nails). The problem is: all the tabs/buttons/scroll bars/slide bars are so small, i always hit the wrong button.
Well, this is what i want to ask: is there a developer here who can make a total GUI remake for easy and fast usage? I know it will take some time to make, but all WM5/WM6 user could benefit from it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i mean WM based devices were created for the use in conjunction with a stylus... it has been only recently that this "iphone no stylus" craze has been happening and no people want to use their fingers etc. i honestly like using the stylus because the screen doesn't get fingerprints on it. with wisbar u can create "bigger" buttons. just my .02

How do you rate for G1 device?....Reviews Etc.

We're wonder what is people thinking about their G1 device... Please vote and write down your feeling on this new phone.

G1
What does work on this phone works very well. I feel though that this phone is more for developers and hobbyist. It's not quiet ready for guys like me that have very few skills. I hope the software situation gets worked out soon or this phone will end up with no real support just like the Iphone.

i agree, some great potential with this phone, enough to make it a class leader. we just need to see some of the most reported problems ironed out first. great os and hardware on the whole.

what are "mosy reported floors"

I LOVE this phone. Of course it has its problems(lack of camera options, lack of really interesting apps(though there were a hell of a lot of interesting ones added today...), cut and paste is a bit of a pain sometimes but they are all in the software and definitely will be fixed once the device is a little more mature. Considering this is a version 1.0 device and just came out a little over a month ago it's freaking amazing. Heck I've even had iphone users gawk at some of the things it can do like street view compass mode.

Love it!!
I've had (over the past 2 years) the mda, moto q, mogul, instinct, diamond and now the G1.
Windows mobile (mda/q/mogul/diamond), although very convenient, can and will give you a headache and a large pain in the @$$. Screens are usually too cluttered. Such a small screen size with so much stuff. Lag lag lagggggggg. Pocket Internet Explorer is only there for show and orb. Other than that I would recommend opera, netbrowser or skyfire. Functionality is the best feature winmo has. I had full access to my home computer (as long as it was connected to the internet). They are essentially what they are called, PPC's (Pocket PC's).
Instinct... should be set on fire along with all the people who created that POS. Make sure it is a slow roasting fire too. Very very poor smartphone. Good at making/receiving calls though.
The G1 can and will do everying the winmo phones do (minus the head ache... hopefully). All we need to be is patient or pitch in by learning programming.

i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.

Till now only 47 peoples vote... gogogo!
Till now only 47 peoples... gogogo! Tell people how do you think on G1~
We hope TMO can see this thread and improve it on next model if possible.

Good and Bad
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things I like:
- GPS, Wireless are great
- Some cool apps
- Smooth Feel to the screen and it isn't jerky
- Contact List (very flexible for my needs)
- real tactile keyboard
- Maps
- ShopSavvy
Things I don't like:
- Small screen
- No auto-rotate (I know it works with chrooted systems)
- keyboard missing CTRL, PgUp/Down, Arrows (for shell commands)
- Internal Storage space is limited
- Lack of ability to store to SD Card
- The cumbersome headset included (why on earth keep the mic
- Not a true Open Source (I want root access)
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
- piston operated hinges (i.e. slow the shock of closing/opening the keyboard)..opens fast but slows down right before it slams open/shut
- option for normal earpiece input (vice USB headset)
So I'm really mixed. I think a huge win (for me) is the ability to store on SD card (I run out of space all the time now) and having root access. That would put my satisfaction in the upper 90's. I'm sure I'm missing other pros/cons but that's a start for me.

I bought it recently, and am satisfied with it. The screen is very bright and responsive, the browser is very good and I can install my own apps on it without hassle <3
My first one had a squeaky sound to it so I got it exchanged. I have the white one, so it can be hard to see the buttons and some of the apps feel incomplete. Thankfully, I can download the source and mod them to my liking
RouterGuru said:
I rated the phone as Neutral:
Things that would make this phone rock:
- optional on-screen keyboard for simple input (ease up on the wear and tear of constantly having to flip to keyboard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye, that annoys me as well, but the input API is is listed on the roadmap for Q1 09, so not too long now (hopefully).

Auto Rotate...?
Just curious if anyone concern about to disable " Auto Rotate " function once keyboard slide out.
Personally, I don't like it at all since sometime, I wish to browse the webpage on horziontal mode but only way is slide out the keyboard!
It is a $%^&*, why they just don't leave a function for user ON/OFF auto rotate ???

I give the phone itself a "very disappointed", the software "very good".
While much if the phone's problems are likely software, the squeaking and overall build quality are sub-par IMO. The battery life is horrid and, while software can fix some of it, the battery is rated very low, which begs me to ask why they spec'd such a tiny battery for a phone with these features.
The point is, I guess, that the phone itself has problems that cant be fixed with a update. The software, while lacking many simple things, at least can and will be eventually fixed.

For me the G1 is a very good start. The default packages and layouts need to be redone. For example. The contacts options don't offer enough input. Like... Birthdays, Anniversaries As well as maybe having IM support for the various default messengers on the g1 ie gtalk, aim etc.
Another Huge let down is the default SMS/MMS package where it does not allow you to forward and the standard options we have become accustomed to using devices such as WM6....
The picture viewer is the worst i have ever seen in my life. Currently I have over 5500 pictures on my SD card and the default viewer does not allow me to view by Directory or simply go into the folder and view that folder, instead it tries to Cache all 5500 pictures and well 35 mins + trying to cache all of them i close it. Also with so many pictures and thousands of names of files there is no option to View a picture and MMS it directly to a contact.
Syncing the phone. There is currently no support for outlook and well even when you export from outlook in CSV format and import into Google it always comes up half garbled with no pictures already saved for contacts. Also not correctly saving number types. IE from outlook if u save it as a mobile number so u can sms on a WM6 device once imported into google it lists it as a regular phone# and cant quickly create a sms to that user by (auto completing the name as you type.)
The only 2 things i have notice that Remember last view is the homescreen and the Applications menu. For instance if you go into your Apps management and uninstall an app. it sends you to the top of the list. The same goes with your Contacts, Directory views, Music library, Etc.
The default options for all applications are normally the same as in notification options. So if i am getting a Text, MMS, Email or what have you it is the same notification for every notification event.
There is no "task manager" to kill processes. IE an X button to close programs or access to kill process' and while Android is supposed to close programs on its own tell that to mine when i run the Browser or Myspace, Facebook, PacMac and close out of the screens and as time passes i wonder why my phone is running slow and open up the Task Switcher and see all of these running still.
There has been no porting of Office XXXX or Open Office to support excel, docx, and the like formats to android at this time yet.
While many people think that the G1 is a big let down and got it and got rid of it. Many of us see the potentional of its power and customization. So if enough of the users voice there dislikes about standard features you EXPECT and want on your device the better the chances that they will take notice.

ultraman69 said:
i rated it very poor, i am very disappointed with the phone and google should be ashamed of themselves. the g1 can't do 1/10th of the things my wing did and my wing was a dog. android is worse than win ce when i first tried it on '03. thanks g1 for ruining my year. xda-devs, please get winmo on this asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.

G1 for 2 weeks ... returned ;?
This is not a thread to bash the G1 in anyway, this is not to compare it to other touchscreen phones. This is merely a usability distinction where i couldn't justify $400 for the device which was more or less to play with android.
the G1 is a good phone, speakers (earpiece/speaker on back) have some amplification issues when the volume is too high, coming from and SE phone however they were more than acceptable in rage and clarity if the volume was controlled.
the internet was outstanding, what i would have liked to have seen was copy and paste in browser, which may have held me to the phone a bit longer than the return period. not being able to at the very least edit docs.google.com documents was irritating at best, especially with no proper document viewer on the phone, severely constricting the email that could be sent from the phone. i am by no means a business user ... but wow, i cant even edit a *.doc thats not already on my phone to another person with some changes.
this has rambled on long enough, i just wanted to share a few thoughts that i had of the device.

diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While correct that the Wing has the upper hand in generations of O/S, I am reminded of a great quote:
"A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learn's from the mistakes of the one around him"
sure, you need to change the words around a bit, but the lesson is to learn from others. They didnt. Android has a lot of possibilities. Unfortunately they did not "learn" from WM6, they left a lot out. They left it in the hands of developers, who seem to be too busy writing "flashlight" and "punch meter" to write useful everyday apps that we are lacking. So far the only app that I have seen that addresses a missing feature is the missed call app 9which is AWESOME as I miss a lot of calls because they dont ring though ).

I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer (Correction, there is a great PDF viewer in the market for purchase, I meant part of the browser, I think google probably wants to come up with its own version for its Google Book website and doesnt want to use Adobe PDF)
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.

brooklynite said:
I am still keeping the phone simply because of the browsing feature, I love sitting on the couch and browsing websites smoothly. Unbelievably the browser also lacks simple features like a simple ADDRESS bar (well, its hidden in the menus so you would SEARCH and add to Google's search results instead of direct typing a URL) and switching between tabs (now called Windows) is too many unnecessary "touches" in my opinion.
I dont mean to bash the phone (and dont even think about replying with "get another phone if you dont like it") but I like to bring these frustrations up so that Google programmers know one more time why this phone is going to lose its shine if they are too late bringing themselves up to date. (PS3 Sales anyone?, Late on price cuts?). See if you are too late these days, it doesn't matter if you are better, look at MSN's Video website, its awesome and MUCH better than Youtube but no one knows about it because they were late (and they don't have their own "brand name" and its simply MSN Video)
Not being able to edit *.doc files from inside the phone's memory or google docs is one thing, and I think is acceptable on a not-so-fresh-release-anymore phone.
What is NOT acceptable whatsoever on this phone is:
Not being able to see IMAGES in Gmail??! For goodness sake Google and T-Mobile claim everything you love about google in your hand, BS. Windows Mobile did this back in 1999 (used to be called Windows CE and had its own outlook) Yes that was 1999 TEN YEARS AGO on my Cassiopea
Other items worth mentioning to those who don't have the phone:
No proper support of Google's own search on its own website! (constantly getting the blank search result page)
No Copy/Paste
No Contact Sync with Outlook (what the hell? is this Nokia 1997 all over again?)
No spreadsheet/word doc editor/viewer (ok, ok, we are waiting for all kind of programmers making incompatible with each other software
No PDF viewer
No Flash (there goes 50% of the websites I browse)
Severly closed source and limited programming that has caused simple BS "apps" with a few exceptions. Developers are crying about how limited they are in writing programs as this phone is sooo CLOSED in all ways, there is no way to even write a Gadget for it like the clock that comes on the screen. No root access either.
Unscrollable, limited desktop space
No windows for categorizing icons. Well, Google does not believe in categorizing and file systems. I am sure all their own servers are full of FOLDERs just like Microsoft servers but they claim everything should be "LABELED" not "folder"'d.
No app installation on the SD card?? Whats this one?? I dropped my WING because it was still using the ten year old Windows CE memory system (almost) and had very limited space and was always running out.
This phone made me appreciate all the little details that engineers at Microsoft have thought of in the past 20 years and included in Windows. I think of how our life would've beeen different and productivity in the world would've been so behind if Linux, IBMOS/2 and other crap had taken over the computer world. Thanks again Microsoft for all the thousands and thousands of free "apps" you included in Windows. Stuff as simple as RIGHT clicking on the screen or COPY/Paste or just a window to categorize icons, simple stupid things I have been taking for granted for years. I am sure Google programmers would love to use Windows in all their own computers while at work. Now I know why Windows dominates the software industry even though they have failed in cluttered annoying text advertising, search, maps and a few other areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash was announced to be coming sometime in the near future by adobe, when is the question. There is a pdf viewer on handango however i purchased it and tried to open g1's full manual and it wont open it. GO FIGURE lol.

And contacts sync with Outlook is already out - see MailShadowG at www.cemaphore.com
- in fact, it's an entire push Exchange mail/contacts/calendar sync.

diabolical28 said:
your wing was a 4th generation Windows mobile device.... did you have windows CE or win2003 before you had your wing? it took windows ages to provide the flexability they offered in the wing yes we all are used to those basic things that the wing and such wm2005 and 2006 devices have on it but where your wrong is the G1 and Android has the ability with the current phone you OWN this second to surpass that little phone you call Wing. Through updates and the likes. If your so disgusted in your G1 ill get you 100 bucks for it... PM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, i didn't know that this poll was to rate the potential of the g1. potentially, any phone can be great, 5 stars...
i think by now, 2008, the requirements for a pda phone are pretty much well defined. ms may have taken 3 to 4 gens to get it right, it doesn't mean that google needs 4 gens. they don't have to invent or reinvent anything, it all already there.
unfortunately, google seems too wrapped up in UI than functionality. actually, i don't know where their focus is.

ahhh!! cant deal with this phone! help!

man im having a hard time with my HD, im coming from an iphone and this is my first day with it, ive been messing with it all day but its just so much different than an iphone. the screen just wants too much push its getting to me, the iphone you just flick your finger or lightly tap and it recognizes so easily. right now my biggest issue is i cant get the phone data package to work, ive got the iphone plan still but i put my sim in my friend hd and it worked fine so im wondering what i can do to get my att data working. another issue im having is using wifi at home to search web pages moving around the page is a pain and they pages always require me to scroll to the sides. is there a way for me to display the whole page horizontally so i dont have to move sideways along with up and down. this are just a few of my problems, but i can see myself going back to the iphone this thing is just too much trouble, and you cant beat that app store or jailbreaking with customs themes. i was willing to take the loss of 3g for the sharper screen but this issue with having to press against the screen has got me nuts.
does anyone know how i can sync my contacts from my windows contact list on my pc?? this is where my iphone has stored all its contacts.

I have the Touch HD, and my roommate has the iPhone... so I have used them both, and have compared them as well.
To be honest, the Touch HD is MUCH better. Also keep in mind that the two have different display screens, the iPhone's REQUIRES heat (from your finger)... so you can never use a stylus or other similar item to control it. While it does have its advantages (such as multi touch) -- it still lacks in that on the HD, you can use the stylus, or pretty much anything.
Try looking at your settings. Try re-aligning the screen. Also there is a setting to turn on noise feedback (clicking) when you are touching the screen - which might help you when you are scrolling.
Lastly - while the iPhone and jailbreaking have a lot of items... I would say that the HD [Windows Mobile] has 10 times more items and way to customize.
Any way just my two cents. Hope it helps a bit.
Keith

are there any sites you can recommend for free software cause i want to like and keep this thing for the camera but it loads apps prett slow and the media is not as easy to reach as it is on the iphone. im really just looking for sports scores updates and aim and some games for this phone

The Iphone and the HD are two very good devices for their market, generally speaking however, depending what you use it for will determin which device is for you.
There are ways of adjusting the sensativity of the HD, i wouldnt recomend this, what you are expeiencing is simply the change between the Iphone and the HD, had you never used the Iphone you would have thought the HD touch screen was amazing. Which is better? Both have their advantages, but i for one keep my fingers nice and warm in the bitter cold wind and can still use the thing, whilst my Iphone brothers are freezing their fingers off!
Your data package is a mystery, i dont really understand what you mean by its not working, stick your SIM in, then go to system settings, network, then network wizard, that will take care of any little network settings issues that may be stopping you from getting it to work.
Assuming you are using Opera you just tilt the device on its side whilst facing you, that will flip the screen to wide mode, you can just read a full website without the need for zooming in this mode. If your using IE then give up, its old and doesnt work yet, new versions will fix this. Moving the page about is very easy in Opera.
To be honest, i think your being very nieve to think this phone is "simply" better than the Iphone, you cant just jump from one device to another and directly compare them, they are two very different devices, you have gotten used to the Iphone, that is why you like it so much, I have used both and i can tell you that for what i use this thing for the Touch HD is by far the most amazing device i have ever used, hell yeah, Id go as far as saying i love my HD!
I do have some issues with it, but ill live with it for now, hopefully someone will fix them soon. They would all be about the camera. Not overly chuffed with it in its current state.

get winterboard from vito software....google it....lot like the iphone interface

Get HDTweak installed so you can the screen more sensitive.

dazza9075 said:
The Iphone and the HD are two very good devices for their market, generally speaking however, depending what you use it for will determin which device is for you.
There are ways of adjusting the sensativity of the HD, i wouldnt recomend this, what you are expeiencing is simply the change between the Iphone and the HD, had you never used the Iphone you would have thought the HD touch screen was amazing. Which is better? Both have their advantages, but i for one keep my fingers nice and warm in the bitter cold wind and can still use the thing, whilst my Iphone brothers are freezing their fingers off!
Your data package is a mystery, i dont really understand what you mean by its not working, stick your SIM in, then go to system settings, network, then network wizard, that will take care of any little network settings issues that may be stopping you from getting it to work.
Assuming you are using Opera you just tilt the device on its side whilst facing you, that will flip the screen to wide mode, you can just read a full website without the need for zooming in this mode. If your using IE then give up, its old and doesnt work yet, new versions will fix this. Moving the page about is very easy in Opera.
To be honest, i think your being very nieve to think this phone is "simply" better than the Iphone, you cant just jump from one device to another and directly compare them, they are two very different devices, you have gotten used to the Iphone, that is why you like it so much, I have used both and i can tell you that for what i use this thing for the Touch HD is by far the most amazing device i have ever used, hell yeah, Id go as far as saying i love my HD!
I do have some issues with it, but ill live with it for now, hopefully someone will fix them soon. They would all be about the camera. Not overly chuffed with it in its current state.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everyone whos got an hd says this to me but i dont understand, what are you guys doing with your phone that im not, the only capability the phone has that im aware of is things like word and excel, otherwise its supposed to be a pda phone and surfing the web on this thing is near impossible(i reset the phone and got the Edge working but it feels so slow coming from 3g). zooming in and out is much more difficult than the iphone. i almost wish there were some kind of package to give this phone all the same features the iphone has for zooming and scrolling pages(occasionally ill select something while trying to scroll because ill have to press down too hard). is it ok to post links to programs on this forum, i guess thats another issue with most of these expensive windows mobile phones, everyone and their moms has an iphone so theres a lot of attention paid in terms of modding and customizing. im trying to find the G sensor that lets you rotate any program some kind of mobile messenger and sports score updater. also does anyone know how i can take my windows contacts and export them to the HD.

Loss of 3G? What are you talking about!? The Touch HD is 3.5G! Just as fast as the iPhone 3G, (depending on network coverage, of course). Plus it has even newer technologies.

thatg said:
everyone whos got an hd says this to me but i dont understand, what are you guys doing with your phone that im not, the only capability the phone has that im aware of is things like word and excel, otherwise its supposed to be a pda phone and surfing the web on this thing is near impossible(i reset the phone and got the Edge working but it feels so slow coming from 3g). zooming in and out is much more difficult than the iphone. i almost wish there were some kind of package to give this phone all the same features the iphone has for zooming and scrolling pages(occasionally ill select something while trying to scroll because ill have to press down too hard). is it ok to post links to programs on this forum, i guess thats another issue with most of these expensive windows mobile phones, everyone and their moms has an iphone so theres a lot of attention paid in terms of modding and customizing. im trying to find the G sensor that lets you rotate any program some kind of mobile messenger and sports score updater. also does anyone know how i can take my windows contacts and export them to the HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a reason why as you said "everyone and their mom's has an iphone". This reason might also apply to you. You are obviously in uncharted territory. If you just want to web search/email/play music then stick to your iphone. A pda phone is designed for much more than that.
Dont blame the HD for your poor network connection.The HD can handle everything from 2G to EDGE, 3G and HSDPA. The phone will connect to whatever EDGE if it cant find a stable 3G (or even better HSDPA) connection. For browsing try opera mobile. And read the manual for the phone. You can adjust the screen sensitivity to your liking.You can also download a cab file here (HD Tweak) to help you with that. Any more complaints?

And yes, EDGE is slower than 3G but that depends on where you are (cell towers) and your network. If your cell provider has 3G or HSDPA signals coming off their cell towers then your HD would automatically choose the best and connect with it.

Good Lord Another Jesus Phone vs HD thread. Do we really need it It's like comparing a PS3 to a PC. One just has to learn the mysteries of WinMobile and that's what this board is all about

ha, see this is what im talking about, you guys keep telling me they are very diferent and winmobile can accomplish a lot more but leave out what. i just dont get what i'm missing. im in the U.S. so the the 3g doesnt work here as far as i know. im on AT&T. i've read somewhere that its got the correct hardware but needs some sort of firmware to possibly accomplish 3g use in the future. i just went to the htc website and put on the 4 hotfixes they had under the support section along with hd tweak 0.5.4 i found. one of the hotfixes solved an issue i was having with the slider to answer calls.
so i still have this problem with exporting contact to the phone from my pc if anyone has any tips
i'm very sorry to anyone who thinks i came on here to offend you guys, just trying to figure this thing and its capabilities out. also can someone tell me what these roms are and should i be cautious loading them, could they cause damage to my phone? i found one that looks like a package of different modifications to the phone

What is the problem with contacts from your PC to the HD ?
I assume you have PC with windows and the outlook application ? And, do you have activesync working between the PC and the HD ?

im using windows mobile device center with vista, and ive never actually set up outlook whenever i get to the email setup i start to stumble because i dont get this pop and map thing trying to setup my yahoo email

thatg said:
im using windows mobile device center with vista, and ive never actually set up outlook whenever i get to the email setup i start to stumble because i dont get this pop and map thing trying to setup my yahoo email
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should have an outlook cd-rom in the HD pack. I have set this up without access to email - I just ignored that in the setup.
I would suggest this is worthwhile as the sync from pc Outlook to HD is very simple.
I use the calendar feature and contacts in outlook on the PC and not the email.
Where are the contacts you want to sync with the HD ?

right now my contacts are in my windows address book, if i go to the start menu then contacts theyre all in there i got outlook running and did the same chose not to sync email but when i try to drag a contact into the outlook contacts outlook tells me its unable to find the WAB DLL. whatever that is

guy you really need to go and RTFM
this is xda dev, not "winmob for dummies"
sure we all have to start somewhere and i did, but i got my first winmob device and then read read read and read somemore. then played and tweaked and hardreset god knows how many times
sorry if you think im being arsey, but the questions you are asking and then solutions (where they exist) have been explored before
google is your friend, or to use the original phrase... "seek and you shall find"

For the heavyness of the touch, look on the forum. You can adjust how hard you have to push on it. Mine is set very light and you can just swipe over it with the lightest touch.
The plus side about a device like the HD is that you can adjust it as much as you want.
The reason why the iPhone is popular and liked by many imho is that its made to be easy for even the biggest idiot.
Just like game consoles are made to bring games to the masses, while a real gamer wouldn't touch a console with a 10 foot pole.

Coming from an iPhone to an HTC does take a little getting used to. I did find the extra screen pressure annoying at first as half my screen presses were ignored. Also, the iPhone is very user friendly, both out of the box and for installing new apps. With a WM device, you do need to do a little bit more to get the most out of it, but once you've got your sat nav installed, gyrator or other screen flip software, put your own skin on it, have voice dial set up and bluetoothed to everything else, and playing the video and audio formats of your choice, all in glorious 800x480, the iPhone will seem like a distant memory.
The threads to read are those pointing to the Wiki's on firmware updates, and basic tweaks (which makes a huge difference). Read the basics, and you'll find an army of people willing to help you get the most out of it. And they dont charge $9.99 for the latest firmware release!
I hope you stick with it.

TravUK said:
Coming from an iPhone to an HTC does take a little getting used to. I did find the extra screen pressure annoying at first as half my screen presses were ignored. Also, the iPhone is very user friendly, both out of the box and for installing new apps. With a WM device, you do need to do a little bit more to get the most out of it, but once you've got your sat nav installed, gyrator or other screen flip software, put your own skin on it, have voice dial set up and bluetoothed to everything else, and playing the video and audio formats of your choice, all in glorious 800x480, the iPhone will seem like a distant memory.
The threads to read are those pointing to the Wiki's on firmware updates, and basic tweaks (which makes a huge difference). Read the basics, and you'll find an army of people willing to help you get the most out of it. And they dont charge $9.99 for the latest firmware release!
I hope you stick with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the encouragement and help, most other people seem to want me to just turn back to the iphone, im not welcome ?
i just tried dling gyrator but it says i need .net framework compact so im looking for that now. can you point me in the right direction of the framework and maybe where to change the sensativity so i dont have to press as hard against the screen, or is that in the HD tweak. also what will the firmware update change.
still having this issue getting the contacts from my windows address book to the phone

What Makes Android Better Than Windows Mobile?

I see a lot of threads about Android.
I've never tried converting or even seen it in action but have a question.
How is Android better than Windows Mobile Professional?
Also how is it worse?
Or is it just different?

All I can say is 'try it to believe it.'
I can talk about it on and on, but you are not going to realize what you can get until you try it.

sshark said:
All I can say is 'try it to believe it.'
I can talk about it on and on, but you are not going to realize what you can get until you try it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
second that. easy enough to dump on your sdcard without even touching your current winmo setup, so try it out and see.

jimt007 said:
I see a lot of threads about Android.
I've never tried converting or even seen it in action but have a question.
How is Android better than Windows Mobile Professional?
Also how is it worse?
Or is it just different?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its just better. Really.

Main thing for me, besides that its totally better, is that its finger based. No more silly stylus....

+1.
I just recently went all the way back to the stock sprint 6.1 rom just to see if I could ever live like that again. After spending an hour or so gathering cabs and tweaking everything just to get it to a comfortable state, I realized that all of the things I was trying to do are pretty much already done in even the most basic android builds.
It does come down to preference I suppose, but for me, just signing into my account upon booting android beats digging around for a WMMarketplace cab on a crippled IE browser, cumbersome setups for things like Windows Live, setting up and scheduling active sync, installing replacements for almost every default part of WM.
I really did love windows mobile for a long time. It's certainly one of -if not- the most customizable platforms. If you don't necessarily like how something works in WM, chances are you can do something about it. But that can take time. I was never really that interested in scripting out one of those huge uc files way back when.
The way everything works so well together in android without getting in your way is fantastic, but stop reading this and just trying it!

If you want to get your feet wet:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/58383/android.exe
A self-extracting zip file I made to get a friend running Android. It's a all-in-one Haret of zenulator's 1.6 Donut. Just extract the Android folder it contains to your Secure Digital card, then run Haret.exe in Windows Mobile File Explorer. Then hit Run.
For porting contacts from WinMobile to Android, check this:
http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=138636&topic=14299

You know what? I'm going to quote myself, from another thread:
Pandemic187 said:
Personally, I like Android better than Windows Mobile because:
1. It's significantly faster for me
2. There's more freedom in terms of tweaking it
3. I think it has a MUCH better notification system than WinMo
4. I like the integration with GMail (better than WinMo's Exchange support) and other Google services
5. It has an app market!
These are pretty self explanatory, but I just love the notification system of Android. I was pleasantly surprised to see a weather alert appear in my notification bar after I downloaded the Weather.com app the other day. Everything appears there - including your appointments on your Google Calendar, texts, e-mails - everything. I think it's just great how it's all unified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

jnadke said:
If you want to get your feet wet:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/58383/android.exe
A self-extracting zip file I made to get a friend running Android. It's a all-in-one Haret of zenulator's 1.6 Donut. Just extract the Android folder it contains to your Secure Digital card, then run Haret.exe in Windows Mobile File Explorer. Then hit Run.
For porting contacts from WinMobile to Android, check this:
http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?answer=138636&topic=14299
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
I guess I'm not patient enough to continue to experiment so I just deleted the file and am back to using Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.

jimt007 said:
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Power Button = Menu Button
Camera Button = Back Button
Hang-Up Button (long press) = Silence, Airplane, Shutdown
Those should work on every Vogue.

cybik said:
Power Button = Menu Button
Camera Button = Back Button
Hang-Up Button (long press) = Silence, Airplane, Shutdown
Those should work on every Vogue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to give a friend the package above, but he is on a Touch Pro. Would this be good for him to try? or is there something else better?

TheKartus said:
Main thing for me, besides that its totally better, is that its finger based. No more silly stylus....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol..huh? I have used Windows Mobile forever and cannot remember the last time I used the stylus...in fact, the only time I use it, is to reset the phone through the little hole.

jimt007 said:
Thanks.
I installed it without any problems. Nice looking. Very clean interface.
But.... EVERY program that I tried, opened but had no way to back out. I had to soft reset each time. I tried 3 or 4 different things, and nothing let me go back to the main menu. Phone hard keys didn't do what they are supposed to do. After all it is a phone, the hard keys make it easy to call and hang up.
I guess I'm not patient enough to continue to experiment so I just deleted the file and am back to using Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well..........after reading some of the replies I reinstalled Android.
Not to belabor the point but I still don't like it as much as Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
I would be losing to many things I'm very pleased with for a change to a different operating system.
It's back off again, I'm staying with Windows Mobile Pro 6.1.
If I ever want Android I'll buy an Android phone.

I agree with you about Android, it's not something I would use, but that's just me.
I wouldn't go back to 6.1 though, I'll stay with 6.5.x, it's a lot more finger friendly. The UI graphics on Android is decade behind everybody else. I would need a microscope to see what's on there. That's why HTC developed its own UI. Knowing Google, they probably can make up that decade in a week, but for now its Winmo.
PS you might want to try one of the port/build with SenseUI.

stopthebus said:
I agree with you about Android, it's not something I would use, but that's just me.
I wouldn't go back to 6.1 though, I'll stay with 6.5.x, it's a lot more finger friendly. The UI graphics on Android is decade behind everybody else. I would need a microscope to see what's on there. That's why HTC developed its own UI. Knowing Google, they probably can make up that decade in a week, but for now its Winmo.
PS you might want to try one of the port/build with SenseUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each their own I suppose - but it really sounds like your config is off or you're using some odd build if you "need a microscope to see what's on there".

plemen said:
To each their own I suppose - but it really sounds like your config is off or you're using some odd build if you "need a microscope to see what's on there".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to be able to increase the font size on Android. I've play around with both 120 and 160 and different resolutions, but unable to increase the font size to something usable. Any help would be appreciated. I've been scouring the net reading up on Android and trying different builds (last one was eclair 2.0.1) because I was offered the Droid for Xmas. After all the readings and research, I turn down the offer in favor of the trusty old Vogue (being made by Motorola is another reason; every Motorola phones I got, I had to open them up and super glued everything down).
I do appreciate some pointers on increasing the font/widgets size on these test builds.

crobs808 said:
lol..huh? I have used Windows Mobile forever and cannot remember the last time I used the stylus...in fact, the only time I use it, is to reset the phone through the little hole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I often got annoyed with certain apps I put in, certain games, or menus and just brought out the stylus.

Well, one thing you always have to keep in mind running Android on the Vogue, is that it is not native to the Vogue. So, there is always going to be little imperfections. I was so impressed by Android on the Vogue, that I bought a G1. So now I run WM6.5 on the Vogue, and Cyanogen's ROMs on my G1. I really will never go back to WM. The only reason I use it now is because I have a contract with Verizon that somebody else pay for. If you really want to be blown away by Android, go to a store and play with a native Android phone. I find content is way more accessible for Android. For an OS that has been out for a very small fraction of the time that WM has been out, it's incredible. Lol, I'm rambling now, point is, try a native Android phone if the Vogue port doesn't suit you. Don't give up on it too easily.

Hello
I am using NFSFAN latest rom on my vogue.Have not tried any android as yet.Honestly,I have not followed it atall.So I am a complete noob to android platform.
So can anybody point me where I can get all the guidanceThanks.

Wow! I don’t mean to sound patronizing but I am genuinely impressed by the quality of responses to this question. Someone actually dared to ask a question about comparing WM vs. Android and there wasn’t any of the typical flame war style responses. Thanks guys! Just one more reason why I like the XDA forums.
I have been looking for a clear and concise answer (or partial answer) on this exact topic myself. I was hoping to get a quantifiable “here’s why I like Android” or “here’s why I like WM” response and I finally found something in this discussion.
I find that a certain anti-Microsoft sentiment often clouds these discussions to the point where they are not useful.
I have been using WM for *years* and develop applications for it. I am also supporting over 50+ Windows Mobile-based devices in the enterprise (warehouse & sales force automation apps). So when people come out and say stuff like “WM is slow, bloated and buggy” I find it an unhelpful response. I just have to chalk their comments up to anti-Microsoft sentiment that is so popular these days.
From this discussion I have a partial conclusion. It seems that the main difference between WM and Android are from a “user experience” perspective. Both of them seem to be reliable robust platforms from an OS perspective. The problem is that the WM interface is dated and heavily stylus oriented. Microsoft’s response to this is to make things “bigger” but not to radically rethink the user interface.
Windows Mobile in its present form bears an uncanny resemblance to Pocket PC 2002. This was designed to compete (and win) against the then popular PalmOS.
Android represents a complete rethink from a user interface perspective. On top of that companies like HTC add their own stuff like SenseUI (on Android) and TouchFLO (on WM) that change the user experience some more. So sometimes that makes the discussion more about the phone manufacturer (HTC vs. Samsung for example) then about the platform itself.
Microsoft is in a tough spot with WM right now. There is a huge install base of mobile business apps running on industrialized PDA’s (stuff like the MC75, MC55, Intermec CN50, etc, etc). The Purolator guys use WM for proof-of-delivery. These types of apps are often custom developed, expensive and have long life cycles. They are not sexy but they get work done.
Radically rethinking the WM user interface would likely break a lot of these types of applications. Everyone knows when switching to Android that their existing WM apps will not run. But everyone expects their existing WM apps from 1998 to run unmodified on the latest version of WM (and surprisingly they often do).
So how does Microsoft keep WM dominant in the business sector while at the same time making it “exciting and sexy” in the rapidly changing consumer marketplace?
Tough spot indeed. I wonder what they will do. I do love the competition from Android (and iPhone) and expect to see cool stuff from WM in the future. I just hope it doesn’t break too many of my 10+ year old apps ;-)
Regards,
The Fish