since memory really is a issue when it comes to performance, I kind of wonder what is the best place to stick most programs?
I applied Bigstorage so I have 28.70 MB Storage memory and 28.71 Program memory.
1. am I right when I say Program memory is also known as the Main memory in Activesync?
2. which memory should I keep free as much as I can to maximize performance? I dont mean programs like TomTom, I install anything that needs files of the Storage Card also onto the card, like Pocket Player and TomTom, I mean mostly stuff that is always active, like Wisbar Advanced etc etc
1. Yes. Program memory is a part of main memory. Main memory is RAM and has two portions: Storage and Program RAM memory.
2. Main memory consists of storage and program memory. Under settings-memory you can adjust the distribution between the two. BigStorage refers to the Storage in your ROM, previously occupied by your EXT ROM. That Storage in ROm is like an internal SD card and will remain even after a hard reset. I installed all my progs into ROM storage so I don't need the storage portion of the RAM. In that way, the storage portion of RAM is nearly empty ( only today-plug-ins like Wisbar, SPB Pocket PLus etc. are installed in main memory because they don't function well in ROM) and by adjusting the switch I can use most RAM for executing programs instead of storing them as well. I have only 8.66 MB of free storage RAM, the rest is dedicated to Program RAM (24.16 MB free). This leaves me more then enough to run heavy apps like TomTom or playing movies. The added benefit is that the programs in Storage ROM are safe in case of a hard reset and don't need to be re-installed in case of hard reset or power loss.
Installing programs into SD card to save RAM is also an option, like you do now. The only minus there is that when you switch SD cards, the links to the programs are dead and the progrma cannot be used anymore. I have several SD cards, with movies, mp3 and TOMTOM maps. When I listen to mp3, I insert my mp3 card. If I had installed some programs on another SD card, I could not for instance work with these programs any more. By storing my programs in Storage ROM, I can listen to mp3's from my card and at the same time use the programs in storage ROM as well. The extra RAM saved by installing the programs on my internal ROM storage makes multi-tasking a lot easier, quicker and more stable.
hope this explanation helps.
The question was about performance, so I'm trying to answer that:
RAM is faster than SD which itself is faster than the internal ROM (Storage). The SD speed depends sligtly on the card speed.
When installing a program into the RAM, it is stored in the data part of your RAM. When executing any software (from RAM or ROM) it is first loaded into the RAM (program memory) and resides there until it is closed. Therefore, every program is started faster when installed in the RAM because it is the fastest memory. When it is installed in the Storage, it is started the slowest.
Some (most) applications use dynamical loading of modules (so called dlls). These are loaded at runtime and the time that is needed to load them also depends on the speed of memory they reside in. When an application excessively loads and unloads dlls at execution time, it runs faster when installed into the RAM. There might be some caching mechanism in Windows Mobile which holds often used dlls in the RAM.
This means that you should install applications into the RAM that are often used and/or close to the system (e.g. today plugins, system tools etc). Others should be installed into the internal or external ROM.
How can you adjust the amount of STORAGE (RAM) and PROGRAM MEMORY ?
Because it will be automatically set to 50% - 50%.
Is there any trick or something?
I tried to move the slider, but it will be set back to the middle.
You don't need to set it. Windows does this automatically. Don't ask me why you have this slider then ...
If you move the slider too far to the left ( with my Magician, if it is under 7 MB) it will automatically go back to 50-50. It is a matter of trying what amount of storage is acceptable for your device. With my old ROM, I could minimize storage to 5 MB, with my new ROM 7 MB is the limit, under that it adjusts itself to 50-50 storage. Don't know why. Just try what minimal setting of storage you device accept and leave it there.
Its better to install all programs in ROM Storage
MY JAM PICS, installed all programs in ROM STORAGE with the excetption of Pocket Innovation System Monitor. Screen shots taken with Pocket Screen Capture from www.CETOOLBOX.com
Pic 1:
The RAM Storage Allocated Size approximately - 9.5 Mb. Allocated Memory space for programs to RUN - 48 Mb. By design of the OS it requires a minimum of 7.06 Mb Free Program Memory apart from the used Storage Memory, if it is less than 7.06 Mb, it automatically adjusts to 50 - 50 share.
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Pic 2:
The ROM Storage after MKS Big Storage Hack - 26.72 Mb. It shows inuse 14.57 Mb because I installed almost all my programs in Storage.
Pic 3:
The Programs I installed on My JAM in ROM STORAGE. (Pocket Innovation System Monitor is an exception, it was installed in RAM Storage). It is good this way. I Installed MS Voice Command in ROM Storage, and its works just fine as before when it was installed in RAM Storage. I usually use my SD Card for my Docs, backup of all programs, my mp3 collection.
Pic 4:
The respective folders of the programs installed and some other files. You can also use your ROM Storage to store your contacts backup through XBackup.
regards
clueless
By the Way ROM Storage is faster than SD Card
By the Way, forgot to mention, ROM Storage is faster than SD Card.
Try to make XBackup to SD Card and to ROM Storage, You will see the difference in speed.
Re: By the Way ROM Storage is faster than SD Card
cluelessme said:
By the Way, forgot to mention, ROM Storage is faster than SD Card.
Try to make XBackup to SD Card and to ROM Storage, You will see the difference in speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is the storage 7-27mb or the storage at the memory 50-50?
First you should Know, You have two Storage Areas on your JAM :
1. RAM STORAGE : For your Programs to INSTALL, approximately 7.6 Mb by default factory settings.
2. ROM STORAGE : For you to store your files, approximately 8 Mb by default factory settings.
The softwares by default are installed in the main memory (64 Mb RAM for JAM) unless if you choose otherwise , from your JAM, START > SETTINGS > SYSTEM > MEMORY > MAIN tab, check allocated size of Storage , from now on we will call this RAM Storage.The programs stored in this RAM Storage will survive a soft reset or as long as the battery is not drained completely. This RAM Storage , automatically increases to accomodate more programs. So if you install More Programs, More of your RAM is occupied to Store these programs. Typically the operating system reserves and maintains around 7.6Mb FREE space in RAM Storage all the time. If reserved free space gets less than 7.6Mb it automatically adjusts to 50- 50 share. So basically, your RAM is divided into Two parts - one for Programs to Install their PROGRAM FILES (RAM Storage) and the other for Programs to RUN.
There is another Storage,which is part of your ROM (64Mb for JAM), from your JAM START > SETTINGS > SYSTEMS > MEMORY > STORAGE CARD tab, click on the drop down menu, you will see Storage. Default size allocated is approximately 8 Mb and is a reserved part of the ROM . It acts like Permanent Storage for Files. The reason it acts like permanent storage is by design, so that files stored here will be not be deleted even after a Hard Reset. From now on we will call this ROM Storage. After the big storage hack your storage area will increase from 8Mb to 26.72 Mb. During Program Installation you can choose whether to install in the default memory location ( RAM Storage ) or Storage ( ROM Storage).
If you would like to know more please read the article here
Xbackup - backups your data to either ROM Storage or Storage Card but NOT to RAM Storage. Before you make a backup close all programs and note down the RAM Storage Size, from your JAM START > SETTINGS > SYSTEM > MEMORY > MAIN tab, check allocated size of Storage and ROM Storage Size, from your JAM START > SETTINGS > SYSTEMS > MEMORY > STORAGE CARD tab, click on the drop down menu, you will see Storage.
After you make a backup you will find a file by the name " CompactFlashBackUpPim" -- that is the backup file, only at one of these two locations and also check your RAM Storage Size and ROM Storage Size and compare it with the earlier observations.
from your JAM,
if you backuped to Storage ( ROM Storage ) then,
START > PROGRAMS > FILE EXPLORER > MY DEVICE > STORAGE
if you backuped to Storage Card then
START > PROGRAMS > FILE EXPLORER > MY DEVICE > STORAGE CARD
regards
clueless
thanks for all the replies people, great help
Related
I'm new to WM5 having previously had a Blue Angel running 2003SE; so far I like my new toy by am wondering about the pros and cons regrading where to install applications Storage Card versus Main Memory. Obviously, installing on Storage card keeps memory free - this is a good thing, but will applications run slower from storage card?
What expereinace can you share regarding thsi?
Thanks
Chris
In WM2003, internal storage ROM is only used to store a backup of the OS and vendor extensions, and is only read during hard resets. Volatile RAM is used to store the OS, files, and applications during regular use (unless they are installed on the SD card), and so their storage must compete with the RAM needed for running programs.
WM5 changes everything -- with WM5, the OS, applications and files always get stored in a nonvolatile storage, be it internal or external, and this is separate from the RAM. Thus battery loss does not cause you to lose installed applications or files. RAM is totally available for running programs, and is not used to store files which are rarely used. There is no more competition for RAM between stored files and running programs.
The WM5 OS and applications running in the background will always use a certain amount of the 64 MB of RAM. You can free it up by removing unnecessary applications. You can also free up the non-volatile storage space by removing vendor extensions and cleaning up temporary files. See this thread, and search for "0506" in re: O2 XDA Exec ROM.
As I have not received my XDA Exec yet, I cannot comment on the speed differences between using internal storage and SD storage. Obviously both are slower than running programs stored in RAM, and depend on the speed on the storage card. But the difference between installing on a SD card and installing in the "default location" is less in WM5 than in WM2003. Installing in the default location won't reduce your available RAM, for example.
I'm sure others have opinions on how best to optimize memory.
thanks for the answer. I posed the question because I pretty much ran out of memory on my device. I have installed in Corporate mode, so don't have O2 active etc. I have just done a hard reset & will now install everything on my storage card just to see what happens
I have had a few WM5 devices. Basically install everything on a removable card. Only install on the internal storage utilities that you are likely to keep around and restrict this to a minimum and small things, like vbar, TRE, etc.
The disadvantage of course is that if you swap SD cards then you can't run applications until you put back in the card installed. I never have this problem as I have only 1gb card permanently in the system. I will shortly be upgrading to a 4gb card (as they are not around £100) which means this is less of a problem. Although note that in the current version of the xda exec's software the camera refuses to write to a 4gb card unless at least 2gb is full.
rgds
I too have a 1Gb card with a 4Gb on order. I'm not very bothered about the camera, but I have read about the 2Gb problem. Hopefully someone will fix this little bug, but until then I can save photos to main memory and then move them about
As a guide I install everything to a SD Card unless it's a today screen plugin or sync's in some way...
that's excatly my thought too - only things which have a today plugin go on the main memory; everything else to SD card - seems to work fine
I just purchased a 1GB miniSD card, and I just want to make sure that i am using it the best I can. I have a CINGULA 8125.
What I am trying to get a goo understanding on is Memory/Storage on this device. As a result I have a few questions I am hoping someone can answer me:
1. What is the difference between Storage Memory and Application Memeory
2. Additional storage (like the 1GB miniSD card I just got) does it go towards the Storage or Application Memory.... or both?
3. As any device, I am assuming there is a limit on how many applications can be ran at the same time (is that what the Application Memory is?) - but I am wondering if adding additional miniSD storage will indeed allow me to install more and more applications, and not just use the space for document storage
4. Is there a way to select where to install an application, as in in the built in storage/memory vs the miniSD storage?
5. Is it true that adding miniSD storage improves the overall performance a tiny little bit?
6. Are there any other tips/trick I should know of regarding Memory/Storage Management in relation to miniSD storage or otherwise?
Thank you very very much..
>1. What is the difference between Storage Memory and Application Memory
Application memory is the equivelant of "RAM" on a computer. Storage memory on WM5 is the equivelant of a hard drive on a computer.
> 2. Additional storage (like the 1GB miniSD card I just got) does it go towards the Storage or Application Memory.... or both?
This is equivelant to a floppy disk or a re-writable CD/DVD. It is more close technically to the Storage memory.
>3. As any device, I am assuming there is a limit on how many applications can be ran at the same time (is that what the Application Memory is?)
Yes, this is reffering to the RAM. On the PocketPCs you can run up to 32 applications at the same time. But you can have thousands installed, just not run at the same time.
>but I am wondering if adding additional miniSD storage will indeed allow me to install more and more applications, and not just use the space for document storage
Yes, that's what it's for. To install more apps and files. But this doesn't mean that you will be able to run more than 32 apps at the same time, because that falls under the RAM/Application memory thing, and not storage/SD.
>4. Is there a way to select where to install an application, as in in the built in storage/memory vs the miniSD storage?
Yes, the .CAB files ask you where to install them.
>5. Is it true that adding miniSD storage improves the overall performance a tiny little bit?
No. When you add a floppy disk or a CD burner on your PC it doesn't make your PC faster. In fact, running apps from the SD it will be equally fast to run them, but a bit slower to load them into RAM.
>6. Are there any other tips/trick I should know of regarding Memory/Storage Management in relation to miniSD storage or otherwise?
Make sure you always have at least 10 MBs of free Application memory and at least 2 MB free of Storage memory (Windows will need some free space to write temp files you see).
I would also recommend to install the freeware utility vBar which allows you to close applications instead of minimize them when you click the "ok" or the "x" button. This way, you can free up RAM each time you don't need an application to be open.
Eugenia, awesome job clearing that up. You should be a teacher.
By the way
I recommend magic button to vbar.
I've tried many times to explain WM5 memory to people but this is the clearest ever.
in the 8525 there is about 48MB available for storage and 48MB available for running prgrams. ive been installing everything in the storage card, still somehow there is only 2MB of storage space left, ANY IDEA ???
doesn't make sense...is that 2mb left on the card? what rom are u using? and what setting do u see only 2mb out of 48mb space left?
Depends on what apps... Some STILL save on the Hermes despite you selecting memory card... You may have to manually move them over and create shortcuts using a file explorer...
Tomtom6 did this and I've had a couple of other apps do so too.
Cheers...
Have you cleared your browser cache? It can really eat up memory.
Here are some other things to look out:
- Unless you go to messaging, menu, options, storage, and check the use storage card to store attachments, all attachments will be saved on the phone memory.
- Relocate the browser cache to the storage card, using advanced configuration. If your rom doesn't include it, look in this forum for it.
- synchronized files on activesync are stored on the storage memory. Use 3rd party programs to synch them to the storage card (like Pocket Controller).
Hello,
Can someone elaborate on what is meant by Storage memory and Program memory?
I would expect storage to be My Docs and Programs to be Windows and so on. I ask since my Storage allocation is two thirds full and all my docs on the device is empty. I use the SD card for that.
Cheers.
rphillip said:
Hello,
Can someone elaborate on what is meant by Storage memory and Program memory?
I would expect storage to be My Docs and Programs to be Windows and so on. I ask since my Storage allocation is two thirds full and all my docs on the device is empty. I use the SD card for that.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-Storage memory is memory used for saving files on you're phone, extention is you're memory card (micro SD).
-Program memory, is like the RAM-memory on you're PC, this is used when running programmes, watching movies-pictures...
Thanks. Well there are two storage areas. "Main" and "Storage Card". My query is for "Main". Within this there is "Storage" and "Program".
I would like to know what is used for what so I can look in a specific area and delete stuff I don't need. Like I said "Storage" seems rather full but I do not store anything on the phone itself. I use the storage card which does not present a problem.
In the storage info on the settings tab, under device it shows "storage" which is like your hard drive, and "program" which is like your RAM. Obviously, you don't actually have a hard drive. It's just an example
There's certain stuff that gets cached on the internal storage, and this can obviously bump up the space that's used (there's threads on here for cleaning/moving these things). Then there's the other culprit - Marketplace. If you've installed stuff from there, it's on internet memory, not your storage card. Also, do you install software to the device, or to the storage card? I only put essential stuff on the device, and stuff that I can live without on the storage card.
Just thoughts and suggestions.
johncmolyneux said:
In the storage info on the settings tab, under device it shows "storage" which is like your hard drive, and "program" which is like your RAM. Obviously, you don't actually have a hard drive. It's just an example
There's certain stuff that gets cached on the internal storage, and this can obviously bump up the space that's used (there's threads on here for cleaning/moving these things). Then there's the other culprit - Marketplace. If you've installed stuff from there, it's on internet memory, not your storage card. Also, do you install software to the device, or to the storage card? I only put essential stuff on the device, and stuff that I can live without on the storage card.
Just thoughts and suggestions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok that explains a little then. I have been installing cabs to the device.
Do not understand; my total storage memory is 181,23MB, in use is 175,21MB, but when I check in explorer, there is only 89MB in use. What am I missing here??
Also, what does it mean program storage - total space 336,97MB?
Flash size 512MB, RAM size 448MB, what is the difference?
Its rather more complex than it ought to be, and HTC are being a little 'economical' with the truth!
It has 512MB of total storage, of which about 175MB is taken up by the ROM image. This leaves the 337MB you see reported. Of this, about 150MB is taken up by the HTC Sense system, then another chunk by the video memory leaving around 135MB free to the user. The new 'Light' custom ROMs without HTC Sense have over 300MB free to the user.
The 448MB RAM is just that- same as a PCs RAM. Even after loading the OS on startup there is ample ROM left for pretty much any eventuality!
Here's a problem I don't understand:
How are most ppl able to install so many things on their HD2 and not use up memory space?
So my HD2 has a total of 193.43MB of Storage and 457.01MB of Program.
When I install games and programs and apps, I install them on the device. This takes up "Storage" memory.
I guess, what is the difference? And how can I choose between where (On device or micro) to install each type of game, apps, program?
1) What uses Program memory? What uses Storage memory?
2) If I install a game on the microSD, and do a flash to a new ROM, will I have to re-install the game on the microSD again?
You should keep a basic strategy:
Whatever prog belongs to the operating system (like HTCSense-hacks, GUIs etc.) or should work without storage card:
Install it to the main memory
Whatever prog is not operating system critical (games, browsers, navi-software, apps, photos, videos etc.):
Install it on the SD-Card (the setup in 99% allows You to choose between main memory and Storage Card). It will eat up little by little Your RAM (by adding values in the registry, icons regs in the startup-menu), but this might centuries ´till RAM is full.
Move Cashes to SD-card as described in
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583638
and try to keep main data memory above 50 MB.
Maybe installing progs to the SD-Card might make progs a litlle bit slower (not much though) but this way You can install hundreds of apps on Your HD2 (and never forget: before installing a new prog make a full backup of the main memory e.g. with SPB-Backup and if the new prog crashes Your device restore. Also for this it is ALWAYS better to install a new app to SD-Card instead main mem).
lemonspeakers said:
Here's a problem I don't understand:
How are most ppl able to install so many things on their HD2 and not use up memory space?
So my HD2 has a total of 193.43MB of Storage and 457.01MB of Program.
When I install games and programs and apps, I install them on the device. This takes up "Storage" memory.
I guess, what is the difference? And how can I choose between where (On device or micro) to install each type of game, apps, program?
1) What uses Program memory? What uses Storage memory?
2) If I install a game on the microSD, and do a flash to a new ROM, will I have to re-install the game on the microSD again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Program memory is RAM that is used by the operating system when executing programs.
Storage memory is where apps are installed and are then available through your icon links.
Calls are made from ROM to storage and then executed in RAM.
There are a number of issues to bear in mind when deciding where to install apps.
Installing to mem card results in slower operation of the app.
Installing to mem card results in higher power usage and therefore drains the battery quicker.
Installing to mem card can result in operating system freezes and overall slowdowns.
Installing to mem card will establish app links with the operating system that won't necessarily be usable if you flash other OS ROMs. Fresh reinstallation of apps should always be done after a flash of any new ROM anyway to keep things clean and running smoothly and reduce operational glitches to a minimum.
Any backup and restore software should only be used when restoring to the same
ROM and never across a ROM change. Sync all items you can before and resync afterwards.
Only install to mem card those apps that force you to or when you have run out of main storage and similarly have no choice.
If you know you are going to install masses of apps from the outset then as had been mentioned install operating system critical apps to main mem and the rest as you can using mem card last.
This is all good practice and good housekeeping.
Great Post !
Great thread !!!
I always wonder if Storage and program memory can be modified.
It was a long long long time ago, it was possible with my palm pilot...
Is there an application for monitoring RAM usage ?
I have about 190 Mo of free Ram and 39 Mo of free program memory.
woaloo said:
Great thread !!!
I always wonder if Storage and program memory can be modified.
It was a long long long time ago, it was possible with my palm pilot...
Is there an application for monitoring RAM usage ?
I have about 190 Mo of free Ram and 39 Mo of free program memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no real reason to monitor any mem usage unless you operate in a memory hungry fashion. And that will only occur with the install of numerous apps. If you run out of storage mem then that's the time to do something about it and if that doesn't happen, then don't worry about it because your phone won't know the difference.