I'm new to WM5 having previously had a Blue Angel running 2003SE; so far I like my new toy by am wondering about the pros and cons regrading where to install applications Storage Card versus Main Memory. Obviously, installing on Storage card keeps memory free - this is a good thing, but will applications run slower from storage card?
What expereinace can you share regarding thsi?
Thanks
Chris
In WM2003, internal storage ROM is only used to store a backup of the OS and vendor extensions, and is only read during hard resets. Volatile RAM is used to store the OS, files, and applications during regular use (unless they are installed on the SD card), and so their storage must compete with the RAM needed for running programs.
WM5 changes everything -- with WM5, the OS, applications and files always get stored in a nonvolatile storage, be it internal or external, and this is separate from the RAM. Thus battery loss does not cause you to lose installed applications or files. RAM is totally available for running programs, and is not used to store files which are rarely used. There is no more competition for RAM between stored files and running programs.
The WM5 OS and applications running in the background will always use a certain amount of the 64 MB of RAM. You can free it up by removing unnecessary applications. You can also free up the non-volatile storage space by removing vendor extensions and cleaning up temporary files. See this thread, and search for "0506" in re: O2 XDA Exec ROM.
As I have not received my XDA Exec yet, I cannot comment on the speed differences between using internal storage and SD storage. Obviously both are slower than running programs stored in RAM, and depend on the speed on the storage card. But the difference between installing on a SD card and installing in the "default location" is less in WM5 than in WM2003. Installing in the default location won't reduce your available RAM, for example.
I'm sure others have opinions on how best to optimize memory.
thanks for the answer. I posed the question because I pretty much ran out of memory on my device. I have installed in Corporate mode, so don't have O2 active etc. I have just done a hard reset & will now install everything on my storage card just to see what happens
I have had a few WM5 devices. Basically install everything on a removable card. Only install on the internal storage utilities that you are likely to keep around and restrict this to a minimum and small things, like vbar, TRE, etc.
The disadvantage of course is that if you swap SD cards then you can't run applications until you put back in the card installed. I never have this problem as I have only 1gb card permanently in the system. I will shortly be upgrading to a 4gb card (as they are not around £100) which means this is less of a problem. Although note that in the current version of the xda exec's software the camera refuses to write to a 4gb card unless at least 2gb is full.
rgds
I too have a 1Gb card with a 4Gb on order. I'm not very bothered about the camera, but I have read about the 2Gb problem. Hopefully someone will fix this little bug, but until then I can save photos to main memory and then move them about
As a guide I install everything to a SD Card unless it's a today screen plugin or sync's in some way...
that's excatly my thought too - only things which have a today plugin go on the main memory; everything else to SD card - seems to work fine
Related
I just purchased a 1GB miniSD card, and I just want to make sure that i am using it the best I can. I have a CINGULA 8125.
What I am trying to get a goo understanding on is Memory/Storage on this device. As a result I have a few questions I am hoping someone can answer me:
1. What is the difference between Storage Memory and Application Memeory
2. Additional storage (like the 1GB miniSD card I just got) does it go towards the Storage or Application Memory.... or both?
3. As any device, I am assuming there is a limit on how many applications can be ran at the same time (is that what the Application Memory is?) - but I am wondering if adding additional miniSD storage will indeed allow me to install more and more applications, and not just use the space for document storage
4. Is there a way to select where to install an application, as in in the built in storage/memory vs the miniSD storage?
5. Is it true that adding miniSD storage improves the overall performance a tiny little bit?
6. Are there any other tips/trick I should know of regarding Memory/Storage Management in relation to miniSD storage or otherwise?
Thank you very very much..
>1. What is the difference between Storage Memory and Application Memory
Application memory is the equivelant of "RAM" on a computer. Storage memory on WM5 is the equivelant of a hard drive on a computer.
> 2. Additional storage (like the 1GB miniSD card I just got) does it go towards the Storage or Application Memory.... or both?
This is equivelant to a floppy disk or a re-writable CD/DVD. It is more close technically to the Storage memory.
>3. As any device, I am assuming there is a limit on how many applications can be ran at the same time (is that what the Application Memory is?)
Yes, this is reffering to the RAM. On the PocketPCs you can run up to 32 applications at the same time. But you can have thousands installed, just not run at the same time.
>but I am wondering if adding additional miniSD storage will indeed allow me to install more and more applications, and not just use the space for document storage
Yes, that's what it's for. To install more apps and files. But this doesn't mean that you will be able to run more than 32 apps at the same time, because that falls under the RAM/Application memory thing, and not storage/SD.
>4. Is there a way to select where to install an application, as in in the built in storage/memory vs the miniSD storage?
Yes, the .CAB files ask you where to install them.
>5. Is it true that adding miniSD storage improves the overall performance a tiny little bit?
No. When you add a floppy disk or a CD burner on your PC it doesn't make your PC faster. In fact, running apps from the SD it will be equally fast to run them, but a bit slower to load them into RAM.
>6. Are there any other tips/trick I should know of regarding Memory/Storage Management in relation to miniSD storage or otherwise?
Make sure you always have at least 10 MBs of free Application memory and at least 2 MB free of Storage memory (Windows will need some free space to write temp files you see).
I would also recommend to install the freeware utility vBar which allows you to close applications instead of minimize them when you click the "ok" or the "x" button. This way, you can free up RAM each time you don't need an application to be open.
Eugenia, awesome job clearing that up. You should be a teacher.
By the way
I recommend magic button to vbar.
I've tried many times to explain WM5 memory to people but this is the clearest ever.
Where do you guys usually install your apps to? Are there any benefits in installing to the Storage Card vs. installing in the internal memory of the phone?
Is the phone faster if all apps are installed on the storage card?
some apps definitely would not respond well if you install it in the storage card, especially if the app needs to 'wake up' from the power standby, due to the battery saving mode for external storage.
with X1, the phone storage is plenty that it doesn't make any difference for you to install in phone storage versus external. Upon fresh hardreset, my phone would have at least 204MB after deleting away the demo videos, etc. And this is standard ROM, not custom ROM.
Tri3Dent said:
Where do you guys usually install your apps to? Are there any benefits in installing to the Storage Card vs. installing in the internal memory of the phone?
Is the phone faster if all apps are installed on the storage card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The truth is that it is "horses for courses"
If you regard the device as a phone with a bit of residual computer capability, then 300Mb of Storage will last a lifetime
If you regard it as a computer with a phone segment attached, then use the SD card for everything you can. The tnyynt SD tweak for speeding card access is brilliant to the point where I am unable to tell the practical difference between Storage and card use.
I use mine as a work computer with a phone attached. My 16Gb card is already 55% full (ie. just under 9Gb of data and programs) - this cannot fit in Storage.
man what kind of programs and data that you have that takes over 8 gigs on your phone.
music and videos i can understand, programs and data???? i got a 4 gig card and the only program that i have that takes up 1 gig is the maps for tomtom 7.910
hopefully the 32 gig card will be compatable with the x1 in the near future.
c_legaspi said:
man what kind of programs and data that you have that takes over 8 gigs on your phone.
music and videos i can understand, programs and data???? i got a 4 gig card and the only program that i have that takes up 1 gig is the maps for tomtom 7.910
hopefully the 32 gig card will be compatable with the x1 in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, well 1) as I said, my device is used as a computer with a phone segment attached, so having >8Gb "on my phone" is not really accurate. I have >8Gb on my card (ie. HDD) and growing
2) Music and video ?? None of them, I use hifi and TV for those when I'm home
3) I use the device for geological/geotechnical mapping on a world-wide basis, together with CAD/3D modeling of collected and supplied data. So high-level topo data, drillhole data, outcrop data, survey data, engineering constraints, zillions of reference reports etc etc + the slew of large programs needed to run these data collections
So for me, smaller, faster ROM = better and better
4) you bet I'm hanging out for the 32Gb cards
problem with having too little phone storage is some program use storage as temp
currently i have about 40gb storage free but still
the comic book reader crash often because the .net program in question
unzip the whole comic to some temp dir in phone storage
when it operates and apparently the comic use more then 40gb
would be easy for the programmer to fix so it didn't unzip all or did it to
the sd card but..
I put pretty much all programs that can be installed onto the card on the card... I also have shedloads of files on there mainly for language learning (I am learning Chinese and also have some Russian stuff)... from 16gb I am down to 7.7 and thats only cos I deleted a few tv shows from China...
PS I am reposting this due to the deletion bug thing... I did have a longer post but cant remeber all my witty reply...
flip a coin
Hi
I have installed a few programs on my TD2 - all to device rather than storage card - and am getting a little concerned that performance may be suffering. With my prevous device I used SK Tools to move apps to the card - but I'm not 100% clear whether this is good practice.
With nothing running, Settings reports 223.10 MB free for storage (75.29 in use) and 75.87 MD free for programs (108 in use). I have installed things like Sprite Backup and Terminator, ActivePrint, SPB FreeCell, MyLife Organized PocketPC Edition, Resco Sudoku Touch and Gaz TD2 Tools.
Really grateful for any advice.
Thanks
I don't see why installing programs to the device memory should cause performance to suffer? It's only available RAM memory which affects performance, and this remains the same whether you instal to the device or to the card. It's when you open, and leave open, several programs at once that performance suffers.
The nice thing about modern phones is the amount of internal storage, which is plenty for masses of programs. The only performance issue you may have is when downloading large files with Internet Explorer, as I think it uses internal storage as temporary space for the file being downloaded, even if you tell it to save to the memory card. I don't think Opera does this though.
Installing programs to the card means you can't "hot-swap" it unless you're absolutely sure all the programs are closed.
In addition to the above internal phone mem is faster than mem card so performance takes a hit if you use the card.
And you run the risk of more freezes and resets being needed.
It is my firm belief that the use of internal mem avoids a lot of hassles all round by making the phone more stable.
And I almost forgot that internal mem uses less battery power than mem cards.
Easy answer...
Use removable storage for data, on-board storage for apps.
If you have too many apps for on-board storage, consider a slimmer ROM for your phone. Remember on-board storage also works as RAM for your apps, so the more you have available, the more apps you can run.
DeathJester said:
Use removable storage for data, on-board storage for apps.
If you have too many apps for on-board storage, consider a slimmer ROM for your phone. Remember on-board storage also works as RAM for your apps, so the more you have available, the more apps you can run.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd check on that last statement if I were you!
The Topaz has 3 memory areas.
One for flashed ROM.
One for operating RAM.
AND one for storage.
It makes no difference how much you put in storage RAM.
It does make a difference how many apps are running at any one time in operating RAM.
A slimmer ROM image won't make much difference either.
How much of that ROM image is unnecessarily floating around in operating RAM at any one time will make a difference.
Go to settings/system/device information/hardware inforamation
I currently show
RAM size
288 MB
Flash memory size
512 MB
Storage size
342.47 MB
That's a lot of free storage available onboard that is just waiting to be used.
If you go into settings/system/memory you will find storage and program memory values displayed.
Install an app and the in use value of storage memory goes up.
Run an app and the in use value of program memory goes up.
Showing that they are two quite separate physical areas running "independantly" of each other.
Thanks!
Thanks for the helpful responses - much appreciated.
Andrew
werdna72 said:
Thanks for the helpful responses - much appreciated.
Andrew
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome to any help we can give.
Hello,
Can someone elaborate on what is meant by Storage memory and Program memory?
I would expect storage to be My Docs and Programs to be Windows and so on. I ask since my Storage allocation is two thirds full and all my docs on the device is empty. I use the SD card for that.
Cheers.
rphillip said:
Hello,
Can someone elaborate on what is meant by Storage memory and Program memory?
I would expect storage to be My Docs and Programs to be Windows and so on. I ask since my Storage allocation is two thirds full and all my docs on the device is empty. I use the SD card for that.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-Storage memory is memory used for saving files on you're phone, extention is you're memory card (micro SD).
-Program memory, is like the RAM-memory on you're PC, this is used when running programmes, watching movies-pictures...
Thanks. Well there are two storage areas. "Main" and "Storage Card". My query is for "Main". Within this there is "Storage" and "Program".
I would like to know what is used for what so I can look in a specific area and delete stuff I don't need. Like I said "Storage" seems rather full but I do not store anything on the phone itself. I use the storage card which does not present a problem.
In the storage info on the settings tab, under device it shows "storage" which is like your hard drive, and "program" which is like your RAM. Obviously, you don't actually have a hard drive. It's just an example
There's certain stuff that gets cached on the internal storage, and this can obviously bump up the space that's used (there's threads on here for cleaning/moving these things). Then there's the other culprit - Marketplace. If you've installed stuff from there, it's on internet memory, not your storage card. Also, do you install software to the device, or to the storage card? I only put essential stuff on the device, and stuff that I can live without on the storage card.
Just thoughts and suggestions.
johncmolyneux said:
In the storage info on the settings tab, under device it shows "storage" which is like your hard drive, and "program" which is like your RAM. Obviously, you don't actually have a hard drive. It's just an example
There's certain stuff that gets cached on the internal storage, and this can obviously bump up the space that's used (there's threads on here for cleaning/moving these things). Then there's the other culprit - Marketplace. If you've installed stuff from there, it's on internet memory, not your storage card. Also, do you install software to the device, or to the storage card? I only put essential stuff on the device, and stuff that I can live without on the storage card.
Just thoughts and suggestions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok that explains a little then. I have been installing cabs to the device.
Do not understand; my total storage memory is 181,23MB, in use is 175,21MB, but when I check in explorer, there is only 89MB in use. What am I missing here??
Also, what does it mean program storage - total space 336,97MB?
Flash size 512MB, RAM size 448MB, what is the difference?
Its rather more complex than it ought to be, and HTC are being a little 'economical' with the truth!
It has 512MB of total storage, of which about 175MB is taken up by the ROM image. This leaves the 337MB you see reported. Of this, about 150MB is taken up by the HTC Sense system, then another chunk by the video memory leaving around 135MB free to the user. The new 'Light' custom ROMs without HTC Sense have over 300MB free to the user.
The 448MB RAM is just that- same as a PCs RAM. Even after loading the OS on startup there is ample ROM left for pretty much any eventuality!
Here's a problem I don't understand:
How are most ppl able to install so many things on their HD2 and not use up memory space?
So my HD2 has a total of 193.43MB of Storage and 457.01MB of Program.
When I install games and programs and apps, I install them on the device. This takes up "Storage" memory.
I guess, what is the difference? And how can I choose between where (On device or micro) to install each type of game, apps, program?
1) What uses Program memory? What uses Storage memory?
2) If I install a game on the microSD, and do a flash to a new ROM, will I have to re-install the game on the microSD again?
You should keep a basic strategy:
Whatever prog belongs to the operating system (like HTCSense-hacks, GUIs etc.) or should work without storage card:
Install it to the main memory
Whatever prog is not operating system critical (games, browsers, navi-software, apps, photos, videos etc.):
Install it on the SD-Card (the setup in 99% allows You to choose between main memory and Storage Card). It will eat up little by little Your RAM (by adding values in the registry, icons regs in the startup-menu), but this might centuries ´till RAM is full.
Move Cashes to SD-card as described in
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583638
and try to keep main data memory above 50 MB.
Maybe installing progs to the SD-Card might make progs a litlle bit slower (not much though) but this way You can install hundreds of apps on Your HD2 (and never forget: before installing a new prog make a full backup of the main memory e.g. with SPB-Backup and if the new prog crashes Your device restore. Also for this it is ALWAYS better to install a new app to SD-Card instead main mem).
lemonspeakers said:
Here's a problem I don't understand:
How are most ppl able to install so many things on their HD2 and not use up memory space?
So my HD2 has a total of 193.43MB of Storage and 457.01MB of Program.
When I install games and programs and apps, I install them on the device. This takes up "Storage" memory.
I guess, what is the difference? And how can I choose between where (On device or micro) to install each type of game, apps, program?
1) What uses Program memory? What uses Storage memory?
2) If I install a game on the microSD, and do a flash to a new ROM, will I have to re-install the game on the microSD again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Program memory is RAM that is used by the operating system when executing programs.
Storage memory is where apps are installed and are then available through your icon links.
Calls are made from ROM to storage and then executed in RAM.
There are a number of issues to bear in mind when deciding where to install apps.
Installing to mem card results in slower operation of the app.
Installing to mem card results in higher power usage and therefore drains the battery quicker.
Installing to mem card can result in operating system freezes and overall slowdowns.
Installing to mem card will establish app links with the operating system that won't necessarily be usable if you flash other OS ROMs. Fresh reinstallation of apps should always be done after a flash of any new ROM anyway to keep things clean and running smoothly and reduce operational glitches to a minimum.
Any backup and restore software should only be used when restoring to the same
ROM and never across a ROM change. Sync all items you can before and resync afterwards.
Only install to mem card those apps that force you to or when you have run out of main storage and similarly have no choice.
If you know you are going to install masses of apps from the outset then as had been mentioned install operating system critical apps to main mem and the rest as you can using mem card last.
This is all good practice and good housekeeping.
Great Post !
Great thread !!!
I always wonder if Storage and program memory can be modified.
It was a long long long time ago, it was possible with my palm pilot...
Is there an application for monitoring RAM usage ?
I have about 190 Mo of free Ram and 39 Mo of free program memory.
woaloo said:
Great thread !!!
I always wonder if Storage and program memory can be modified.
It was a long long long time ago, it was possible with my palm pilot...
Is there an application for monitoring RAM usage ?
I have about 190 Mo of free Ram and 39 Mo of free program memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no real reason to monitor any mem usage unless you operate in a memory hungry fashion. And that will only occur with the install of numerous apps. If you run out of storage mem then that's the time to do something about it and if that doesn't happen, then don't worry about it because your phone won't know the difference.