Related
I have been using the new XDAII for about three weeks or so and already I have experienced over 6 times critical crashes that caused the device to not even be able to restart after reseting. Even more troubling is that even when pressing the on/off button and hard reseting, the problem still cannot be solved. The only way I got around it is by actually removing the battery and letting it sit for a few minutes, put in the battery and then performing the hard reset. Of course, then I lose all data that was previously on the device. Right now, what I do is use the xBackup program to back everything to SD card and just wait for the device to crash. Then ultimately recovering. I can get around, but this is really quite annoying.
I have written to O2 about it and they said something about a radio version 10513A0, and that if this is the version (and it is), then I need to either register (which I did and wait for some upgrade), or send it in to O2 collection point for repairs. I really don't want to send it in because then I would have nothing to use (since its both phone and PDA). I just don't see why O2 could not just simply fork over the upgrade software. Also, I have experienced twice that the device would suddenly no longer be recognized by Activesync (newest version). It would automatically connect as GUEST and nothing could be done about it. No shuting down Activesync and restarting, or rebooting computer or/and xdaII, or even removing and reinstalling Activesync could solve the problem. Again, the only solution I have is to perform the infamous full reset, wipe out the whole xdaII and then everything works again.
Anyway, all of this is really killing me here, just wondering if anyone has experienced this kind of situation and maybe have some advise.
By the way, the Bluespoon Digital seems to work fine with the XDAII although sometimes it does crash and a pairing must be done again, but definitely not like the Jabra 200 problem.
I had the same sort of problems with my first XDA-2 and as time pasee the problems got worse, So i returned it to o2 and got another one, same software and hardware versions, but this time with no real problems
John
XDA II Critical Crash
I have had the exact same problems as you experienced and was about to throw that gadget out the window... but then
Following advice received from an XDA II owner I tried the following:
I hit soft reset each time upon seeing the red text in the lower right corner 5 consecutive times. Then I waited and my XDA II came back to life effectively performing a soft reset rather than having to do a hard reset. Fascinating, let's see whether you have as much success !!!!
Thanks for the tip... I'll try it next time it happens again! However, I'm still wondering about the ROM v 1.06 and that Radio software upgrade. Thanks!
I'm also finding the XDAII needs a hard reset more often than the XDAI (although fewer soft resets). Had to do it twice last night, very annoying. Interesting tip about the soft reset at the boot screen, will give that a try next time.
O2 really should do something about it!
Ya, I totally agree. All this reseting and crashing and recovering is really not acceptable. The product features are definitely good and they did make some improvements, but this kind of quality is a definite downgrade. Even O2 admits that if your radio number is 10513A0 then you should send it in to a collection point for a software upgrade. They also insisted on registering which I did, but I just don't understand why they could not just simply post a downloadable software upgrade or ROM upgrade so that we don't have to be without a device. After all, we are talking about something that is both your PHONE and your PDA.
The ROM upgrade is definately necessary. I sent mine in and after that, no hangs whatsoever. No more hard/soft resets at all either. :lol:
if only it was so easy
I would have sent it in, but since I am traveling and don't live in HK, there is just no way to send it in. Besides, it takes about a week, which means nothing to use during the time. O2 really should be more considerate about this. If this was just a functionality upgrade or a boost in bells and whistles, waiting is reasonable. However, we are talking about crippling disfunctionality in a US$800+ device, they should atleast have the sense to post a fix to solve the problem. I heard something will be released in January, I wonder if this is confirmed. I am really sick of waiting. After all, MDA and T-Mobile supposedly already have something out. If they don't do something soon, I would really reconsider anything from O2 next time.
I have experient the same problem on my XDAII, and after 7 times hardreset during 14 days business trip in USA. I send it back to O2 and wait for the solution(already 1 week pass). And even a hardreset sometime could hardly be reached. You need to try 6-10 times. I think it should be a hardware problem because I acutrally upgrade my rom to a newer one(and not the english version), and after two days, I lost my phone function again. I have faced the same problem on my older PPC phone once(LENOVO ET180) and after I send it back to the vendor, they said the mainboard has failure, need to be replaced. After doing so, it works 6 months without a hardreset. I saw the same issue on PPCSG and PCCW.net, they all send their PDA+Phone back to the service. I think you better do it now as maybe there is no a ROM upgrade could solve the problem.
Goog luck. and if without those issues, it is really a perfect PDA+Phone. I love it. When I faced those ****, the only thing I could think is to buy another XDAII
I've the same problem
I've tried your tip to restart my Mda2 with XDA2 rom, and it works!!!!!!!!!!
Now I'm looking for a new Rom upgrade to change my radio version...
Still I think it's the solution and not to replace the radio hardware...
Cant Trust My XDA II
Well it's now Dec 2004 and I ALSO have the same problem.
I've only had my XDA II a couple of months and already I'm quickly loosing my patience with it!!
It crashes at least TWICE a week causing me major headaches.
If I was abroad and it did this I would be in severe trouble.
I brought this as a business tool and I'm afraid it is to unreliable to place
my trust in...
I have the latest ROM update installed
I can ill afford to send it in because it holds my customer base,
day to day stuff, Navigator and many other stuff I use on a daily basis.
"O2, what can you do for me?"
Topdog38uk, what software have you installed - especially any today plugins?
rgds,
Alex.
sigh... i haven't had such a problem since i bought it..... till i update the new rom from O2 uk site... now i feel like throwing to on the ground lolz. anyway i just installed WM2003 SE upgrade mysterman from the forum and 1 crash so far.... :roll:
Hello,
I have a T-Mobile MDA Compact (UK) that I got several months ago. The details of the device are:
ROM Version: 1.01.00 WWE
ROM Date: 10/21/04
Radio Version: 1.00.10
Protocol Version: 1337.36
ExtROM Version: 1.01.128 WWE
Firstly I havent; installed ANY software on this, apart from whats already on it and I have given it a hard reset (re-installed everything) once and the problem
still occurs.
=== THE PROBLEM =========
This doesn;t happen everytime I receive a call, but it happens often enough to become very annoying.
If I receive a call from someone at a certain point and then after the conversation I press the red hang up button the phone screen loses its little "X" in the
top right of the screen. This then prevents me from leaving the phone call screen.
Press the red hang up button again or holding it down doesn;t return me to the today screen neither, Ive tried pressing every combo of buttons the the thing and
it stays on that screen.
To fix it I have to do a soft reset and reboot the damn phone, which is annoying.
It was happening a lot before I done the hard reset, after I reset it didn't happen for a while so I thought it was fixed, but its started doing again now... and
doing it too often for my liking now.
The only thing I have done is install a new theme... could it have anything to do with that? If not what could it be?
T-Mobile UK havent released an update for the MDA Compact yet, but there is one on the german T-Mobile site... but I dont want to risk installing that... or could
I?
Any help you can give will be appreciated.
Thanks
Steve McKeogh
I've seen a number of probs with different Compacts but never heard of that one before. It's not something I've experienced on my own one either, which leads me to think it may be a fault on your handset. I have something similar when I use my camera occasionally but I put that down to mucking around with software updates, but if you haven't changed anything I'd go with a fault. It can go for repair under warranty, which means they'll probably do a complete software upgrade or exchange the unit, so make sure all your important stuff is backed up before you do.
I tend to agree with the Bulletman. I had the exact same problem with 2 brand new xda IIi's and returned them (o2 not happy!). i did however find that when I installed SPB pocket plus 3.0 , which does shut down the phone dialler/application properly, that that problem was resolved.
Still I concur that it's most likely a hardware issue as I still had poor reception, poor call quality and consequently lost calls! Get it repaired or replaced if you can. My current MDA Compact never does this and it has all the original Rom and software on it, but works flawlessly, hence I've never upgraded.
If it ain't broke why fix it?
i noticed your rom is 1.01, ever throught of upgrading to 1.12 WWE?
For no apparent reason on Saturday, my touchscreen decided to stop working. I was running the latest WWE iMate ROM, with the .10 Radio installed over the top.
I tried soft reseting a few times, with no luck - so moved onto a hard reset as well. That failed
Having seen someone post a link to a proper T Mobile download for the original ROM for the phone, I thought it best to try that. Unfortunately it doesn't fix the problem, but at least has put my phone back to a state where I can cheerfully give it to T Mobile and claim on the 12 month warranty.
I'm dropping it into my retail store today... but am disappointed it has only lasted 3 months before dying.
It hasn't been dropped, water damaged or anything like that - just simply gave up the ghost.
my touchscreen sporadically stops working (mda pro), but then will start again, if I rub the wider end of the Stylus across the screen quickly a few times.
I'm contemplating taking it back, let us know how you get on with T-Mobile.
Do t-mobile UK give a replacement unit?
Well mine's gone into the store today. Reckon I'll get something back from them by the end of the week. They reckon 5-7 days turnaround, but the phone won't even be sent offsite until tomorrow. (They have collections 2 or 3 times a week I think...)
Its a far cry from Orange where, with Orange Care, having stopped working Saturday, it would have been replaced on Sunday.
Luckily I still have my Orange C500, so I unlocked it, put an iMate ROM on it, and inserted my T Mobile SIM.
No question that it'll be repaired or replaced - but if you rely on the device, a week (or more!) is a long time to be without it...
Had I had the T Mobile equivalent of Orange Care, it wouldn't be sorted any quicker - so at least I can be happy I didn't waste my money with that.
I did try slightly flexing the screen and repeated tapping to try and get it to work again, but no joy. Perhaps the screen IS the weak link afterall, despite me religiously closing it up clamshell before putting in my pocket etc.
hi all, i bought a tytn at ebay, but
the after a short time of using the bottom buttons, they stop working.
touch screen and buttons on the side are stÃll working, but the bottom buttons are dead.
sometimes after turning off amd turning on they are working for a short time again. a restart also helps to make them work.
but its not funny to restart every 10 minutes.....
it is an e-plus tytn from germany with wm5.
do u guys think that it is a hardware or a software error?
I seem to have this problem on and off myself and think it's related to either the rom on the phone or the radio rom but am not sure which. It seems sometimes I have this problem and it seems to come and go depending on what combination of rom/radio rom I have installed. If I was smart I'd find a combination that works well for me and stick to it but I always like to play with things so typically every day or two I'm reseting
yeah, i have the same problem.... i hate to restart the phone every now and then, but I need to figure this out sometime soon, or I'm gonna upgrade to WM6 to see if that solves my problem. lol...
did anybody else have an idea to solve the problem?
crutav said:
did anybody else have an idea to solve the problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://cnn.cn/shop/8525tytn-flex-cable-p-1732.html
I opened up my tytn, to find out the problem, and I found a small crack in the flexcable mentioned above.
Before it was never opened nor did anything strange happen with it, so this seems to be yet an other production problem/fault..
More and more people seem to have the same problem, time to presure htc for a repair....
Ok for me this is too late, but all for the good cause.. will just order myself a new cable and try to swap it..
Any ideas where to get the flex cable these days? Not finding it at the link above and internet searches aren't panning out either.
FYI:
Just got back my HTC TyTN from service under warranty, sent for exactly the same problem.
The technician I spoke to directly said that maybe about 90% of the lower keys malfunctions are caused by the lower keyboard board behaving erratically and it is a well-known hardware problem.
A board replacement solved it, my TyTN is working perfectly again, they also replaced the stylus holding rubber (which was broken already from the early days) and, surprise, they upgraded my WM5 device (I had to revert everything to the initial versions before handing it to them) to the latest official HTC WM6 Rom. Even bigger surprise, although what I gave them was a WWE device, when I got it back they had upgraded it to the localized (official Greek) version. Life is good.
Anyways, seems the only real solution to this is a visit to the repair store, hopefully under warranty and reverted back to the original settings...
I have a UK supplied Touch HD from Orange and it`s going crazy!
Problem 1:
Backlight switches off without warning, touchscreen still responds but obviously you can`t see anything! Multiple hard resets will eventually coax the backlight to wake up, but the delay between power button pressed and the "first buzz" of life is around 20-30 seconds. Started happening when it was about 2 months old. Initially it was infrequent and I put it down to an installed software problem, but now every few hours. Other symptoms include the charging light failing when the backlight fails and there is usually an increase in heat around the case. Strangely however when I use it as a sat-nav and it is permanently charging the backlight never fails. I have tried a new battery, desktop charger, turned off fast-sleep, autolock, light sensor, full reset and removal of all my software and it still does it. Sometimes its OK for 5 days, other times it goes "dark" after 10 minutes.
All ROMs updated to latest versions. NB This started happening with the original Orange installed ROMS
My original solution to the problem was to run bootloader which forced the backlight on, but the long delay between on/off and start means this doesn`t work anymore.
Problem 2:
Screen display appears inverted and mirrored after pressing power button during operation. This is an infrequent problem but may be connected.
I live in Thailand now. HTC Thailand will no doubt take it and charge me $250 for a new motherboard whether it needs one or not. I can`t easily return it to the UK and I just hope somebody somewhere has some ideas?!?
I was just talking to another user with completely bizarre issues. What you are experiencing is totally abnormal. Just to make sure it's not a software issue- what SPL version shows up in your bootloader? Also, what rom are you currently running?
Please read next post
Please read next post
** OOPS my typing brain isn`t working today **
Thanks for replying. I had upgraded to:
2009_RUU_BlackStone_HTC_WWE_1.56.405.1_Radio_52.62.25.34_1.13.25.24_Ship
with soft uspl but last night I reinstalled the original Orange ROM, effectively factory fresh. (The HTC April update won`t install natively on the Orange variant of the phone) and the thing stayed on all night and didn`t go dark. However, this morning when I got the reply, I turned off the phone to get to bootloader and it took 3 battery removals to activate the backlight.
Anyways SPL is 1.14.0000
R 1.09.25.14
G 52.49a.24.26u
D 1.14.22273
Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
jamesmclean said:
** OOPS my typing brain isn`t working today **
Thanks for replying. I had upgraded to:
2009_RUU_BlackStone_HTC_WWE_1.56.405.1_Radio_52.62.25.34_1.13.25.24_Ship
with soft uspl but last night I reinstalled the original Orange ROM, effectively factory fresh. (The HTC April update won`t install natively on the Orange variant of the phone) and the thing stayed on all night and didn`t go dark. However, this morning when I got the reply, I turned off the phone to get to bootloader and it took 3 battery removals to activate the backlight.
Anyways SPL is 1.14.0000
R 1.09.25.14
G 52.49a.24.26u
D 1.14.22273
Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So is the phone working properly again with the factory Orange rom? All I can tell you is that if you want to run the 2009_RUU_BlackStone_HTC_WWE_1.56.405.1_Radio_52.62.25.34_1.13.25.24_Ship rom you must have a base SPL of 1.54.0000. Even if you use USPL to flash the rom to bypass CID-locking you still need to upgrade your SPL because the new 1.56+ roms are not compatible with an SPL version less than 1.54.0000. Read the guide in my signature for more information.
I see cRaCKwHoRe is on your case, so your in safe hands. I'll leave it to him.
One suggestion though. Instead of creating new posts and saying 'Read Next Post', why not just edit your first post and state 'EDIT' or 'Update' with new information below. This way thread remains short and easy to follow
Just an idea mate!!
Hello again. As I said in the previous post, reset to check the ROM version caused it to happen again. 3 Attempts to wake it up this morning. This afternoon another spontaneous backlight failure. I started to wonder if it could be connected to something on the flash card. So I took that out and it has behaved since then. But this doesn`t mean problem solved as it had worked ok for the 5 previous days with the WWE 1.56 ROMS.
Also, HARDSPL is being identified as a Trojan "heur" with Bitdefender.
jamesmclean said:
Hello again. As I said in the previous post, reset to check the ROM version caused it to happen again. 3 Attempts to wake it up this morning. This afternoon another spontaneous backlight failure. I started to wonder if it could be connected to something on the flash card. So I took that out and it has behaved since then. But this doesn`t mean problem solved as it had worked ok for the 5 previous days with the WWE 1.56 ROMS.
Also, HARDSPL is being identified as a Trojan "heur" with Bitdefender.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most virus scanners show a false positive that USPL and HSPL are trojans or viruses. This is based on heuristics and how these utilities work. They are tried and tested and are most definitely safe.
And again I stress that you cannot run a 1.56+ rom on an SPL version below 1.54.0000. Since you are running SPL 1.14.0000 this is why you are having such issues. You need to flash a newer SPL version!
After the hardspl back to original Orange ROMS:
Anyways SPL is 1.14.0000
R 1.09.25.14
G 52.49a.24.26u
D 1.14.22273
I had 2 dark events. I wondered if there could be a problem with the memory card, so I took it out. My reasoning being, after it goes dark and is reset, something was causing it to wait 30 seconds before "smart mobility" and/or buzz (if the screens still alive). When my PC does that its usually because there`s a memory card or external hard drive confusing it. Took out the card and it was OK all night. Formatted the card this morning and had no problems all day.This is a guess, I am an idiot! But the memory card is the only ongoing part of my phone; internal storage and ROMs has been cleared or upgraded every month.I dont doubt my feeble attempts to upgrade to 1.56 and bypass HTC`s no upgrades for Orange handsets policy may have been a significant contributory factor. Interestingly, Orange are actively discouraging purchase of the HD, they have had too many problems with their handsets.
Going to keep the phone empty for a few days, no software, no sat-nav and see if I have any more events. Then I think will read your HARDSPL instructions far more carefully and retry the ROM upgrade. Excellent work by the way!
The odd thing about this telephone (apart from the inversion and mirrored display problem, which still occurs) is that following the nuclear option of total clearance and ROM upgrade/downgrade it will behave for an number of days and then the backlight dies again. It could still be hardware!
Going to keep my eye on things for a few days.
But if anyone else has had these problems with their HD or Orange handset, please tell! Maybe you aren`t crazy! To help this is a list of symptoms:
Spontaneous backlight failure but screen and phone responding
Simultaneous charging light failure
Delayed reboot 20-30 seconds before first buzz
Continued backlight failure requiring multiple hard resets to resolve
Weak vibration during failed backlight reboot
Inverted and mirrored screen at boot or after wake-up
Thanks!
Looks like a SPL problem only. It is responsible for the boot events and mismatched display drivers between SPL and the ROM most likely did it. Anyway interested in knowing updates once U flash a new SPL 1.54. and ROM..
Problems not resolved. Backlight dead again today. Multiple failures 10 minute interval. Totally fed up with HTC products. My previous HTC phone MDA Vario 2/Tytn/Hermes had to be replaced 4 times under warranty and until 2 weeks ago I used it when Touch HD died, now it has completely died as well.
Even in its "as-supplied" by Orange configuration the Touch HD won`t work now. May be I will try one more attempt at ROM upgrade. In the meantime I`ve just bought a cheapo Samsung sgh i200 for basic pocket PC functionality and just because it doesn`t say HTC on it!
Windows mobile is great. Massive software library and great to customize. But in my experience HTC make lousy unreliable products!
jamesmclean said:
Problems not resolved. Backlight dead again today. Multiple failures 10 minute interval. Totally fed up with HTC products. My previous HTC phone MDA Vario 2/Tytn/Hermes had to be replaced 4 times under warranty and until 2 weeks ago I used it when Touch HD died, now it has completely died as well.
Even in its "as-supplied" by Orange configuration the Touch HD won`t work now. May be I will try one more attempt at ROM upgrade. In the meantime I`ve just bought a cheapo Samsung sgh i200 for basic pocket PC functionality and just because it doesn`t say HTC on it!
Windows mobile is great. Massive software library and great to customize. But in my experience HTC make lousy unreliable products!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's really unfortunate. Seems you have bad luck, consistently
Most people really like HTC devices. They do actually make some pretty decent stuff. Seems you've just gotten rotten luck.
Taken it back up to 1.56 with Hardspl as suggested. Installed Dutty 3.4. And it worked... For one night! Dead again today. I think now it is a hardware fault. So I suppose she`s off back to HTC and I will have to pay some money.
I have been very unlucky with HTC products. I said before I had to have 4 HTC Hermes, thought it would be interesting to tell what was wrong with them:
1. Orange SPV3100 WM5. First generation Hermes 100, hopeless wifi, buggy, returned to store and refund.
2. MDA Vario 2. WM5 Upgraded radio version, better wifi. Decided it didn`t like being a telephone anymore and the radio died after 3 months. Returned to store.
3. MDA Vario 2. WM5 Factory replacement. Dead memory card reader, didn`t make it out of the store when I went to collect.
4. MDA Vario 2 WM6 (Hermes 300). Working wifi, a much better operating system. A real telephone. Lasted 18 months! 2 weeks ago, complete power failure for no specific reason. Won`t charge or do anything now.
But before Nokia and iPhone customers get too smug. I also had an iphone when they were first released in 2007 (1.02) and that was a bug infested piece of junk as well. Got stolen in Bangkok. I really do miss having to reinstall the OS every 2 weeks! And my brother`s Nokia N95 has spent more time with Nokia than with him. 8 visits to Nokia care.
And now I have a broken Touch HD, probably with a power supply issue!
All these phones have one thing in common. They were (with the exception of the Hermes 300) first generation examples. And just before you rush out and pay big bucks for the latest telephone from HTC or whoever... Think, was this phone ready for release? Or was it just rushed out to keep the shareholders happy?
Think about it...
Hell! finally I found someone with the same problems. But I have bought it just some days ago!! The only thing I have done since then: installing tomtom on my sd-card and setting this gps-signal thing to the value 3000.
when I bought it i tried to run it in the store: after turning on, black screen but still vibration when i pressed some button, so it must have been on. Then it suddenly worked, installed the system, everything perfect. yesterday i installed tomtom, today it probably "died" around 20 times. everything the same like already described, screen messed up, after turning on vibration after 30 seconds, god!
is there anything i can do? i just bought that thing
Spontaneous backlight failure but screen and phone responding
Simultaneous charging light failure
Delayed reboot 20-30 seconds before first buzz
Continued backlight failure requiring multiple hard resets to resolve
Weak vibration during failed backlight reboot
Inverted and mirrored screen at boot or after wake-up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like you have the exact same problem as my HD: inverted screen, screen blank but still functioning etc...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=520781
I am waiting for mine to happen more frequently before sending it away for service. Otherwise they will just return it if they can't reproduce the problem.
Pretty sure it is a hardware problem. I am in Australia and have the original stock ROM.
We may be onto a new fault here. Just noticed 2 more threads with the same screen issues. My phone has been OK for a few days, but today screen won`t wake up at all. Hooked it up to Pocket Controller Pro and it`s reporting a "microp version mismatch 0" in its dark state. Been checking on other websites and this seems to have been a problem with Touch Diamond previously. There doesn`t seem to be an update for microp firmware. One user tracked it down to a loose connection between screen and motherboard. I don`t know! I just wish it would work!
Any suggestions for MICROP issue?
Currently running Dutty 3.4 with 1.56 Olinex. But this has been a problem long before this ROM version.
Fallen Spartan told me this:
"Have you tried going to Start > Settings > All Settings > System > Power > Advanced and making sure device isn't set to turn off after a period of time?"
Until now my phone works without problems, I will report again after some days
Yup, tried that one. Doesn`t work. You will notice after you end a call, the screen will be dim. This is the warning of imminent backlight failure. It is not power management dependent. My problems with the phone started in Feb. Initially intermittent. Now constantly.
Sometimes the thing will work for a few days for no reason. Only way to guarantee no failure is permanent USB power. Pull out the USB and watch it die, instantly! That`s with the original or the new battery.
New motherboard may be the only solution. But it is worth noting that when I had problems with my Hermes and it had to go back to HTC 3 times, each time a new phone was sent. On the service report "New motherboard" was reported. The guy in the T-mobile shop told me they`re too expensive to repair so it`s easier giving you a new one. They still hold onto the old one for 3 weeks though!
Might try to repair the Touch HD, I still have my Samsung SGH. (It`s very slow!) but I think I will wait for ASUS or Toshiba phones with snapdragon processors. Had enough of HTC and don`t want another iphone.
This is a hardware issue. No if's, and's or but's. It is caused by a disconnection between the screen and the motherboard. A faulty motherboard or a loose / broken connector is the usual culprit. I would say 7 out of 10 times it is due to a loose connector. It is a poor design to begin with and after being dropped or roughed up enough it tends to break or get loose. HTC typically just replaces the motherboard in a warranty repair situation.
If you are lucky and just have a loose connector and are comfortable with opening up the device yourself, you can disassemble the device and re-connect or re-solder the 2 port connector that connects the motherboard with the screen. Of course this will "void" your warranty so I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you are comfortable working on micro-electronics. If your case is the type where it is intermittent and it works sometimes and then sometimes not, then you have a loose connection and it just needs to be reconnected or re-soldered.
I have seen and fixed a couple of these now.