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Hey
First of i would like to say that i have been reading on xda since the old winmo days where i rooted and customized my phones. Now it is my time to write my first post here, which i have close to doing many times, im from Denmark by the way.
Not long ago i sold my beloved Htc hd2, which i had running Android, and i bought the Nokia N8 due since i am heavy on the music and photos. My plan was to get a 7 inch tablet with android for the rest of my needs, which the N8 could not for fill, and even though i had read some places that the tab was slower than one would expect i got myself a used one ( like new) for about half the retail prize.
Now i must say that i am really bugged out about this Tab, it is super slick, the screen and the form factor is nice, the internals are great ( much the same as the new google developer phone, that should be good?) but still this thing runs poorly on froyo 2.2. Really i dont see people saying this is acceptable, since i really dont think it is, i dont mean to flame, since i love android and phones in generel, but even my Htc hd2 had smoother performance than the tab, i find that hard to be true.
It is not slow in generel use, its proberly about what a galaxy s with stock would be, but in things such as the web browser, which should be essensial for a tablet, the galaxy tab really sucks, it is so bad that my nokia n8 with opera mobile nearly handles the web better, and thats really saying something! I tryed about all browsers in the android markedplace and ofcourse one can find a much better one than the stock ( of course you have to turn flash off, even through i think it is a shame)
I ended up using Opera Mobile since it is by far the fastest, it seems to me through that its not running the native res of the tab, could i be right?, is it true that some apps will show fullscreen without being the full res of the tab? i looked allover the web for days trying to get a grip of things without luck, really hope to get some answers
Now what would love to learn some more about would be the future prospects of the Galaxy tab, Is it in the hands of many developers?, will we see custom roms? (since i am not much for stock and touchwizz). Can we expect the Tab to be get much faster, should it not have the same or similar performances as the Nexus S or Galaxy S?
A final thing that i was wondering was about the res of the tabs screen. Is that whats coursing the troubles, the lagg? is that what makes it slow someplaces and makes the webbrowser work like a windows mobile 6.5 stock browser (or worse )
The reason why i am thinking that now is that i just read on Engadget that the Galaxy tab 2 will have Tegra 2 and that it seems very likely that Tegra 2 will be the processor in allot of gingerbread android tablet. Is the hummingbird to slow to handle higher resolution screens? (I really, REALLY hope that is not the case)
Maybe someone with a Archos 101 could prove me wrong (or another android tablet with higher res)???
Well thats it for me, really hope to get some answers since i know this is the best place to ask this sort of questions!
i'm on JM6 and somehow i still dont get what people say about silkky or buttery smooth >.<
mine is kinda laggy (still), and the stock browser gets laggy too when get scrolled up or down, i'm going back to miren browser
i do love putting widget though in my screen, but when i see homescreen post, some of them got a lot of widget too
wonder what's wrong with mine
already using launcher pro, better in term of scrolling than touchwiz with lots of pages (App Drawer)
but scrolling screen still gives me lag
quoting everybody else, after tegra 2 maybe there will be a tegra 3 or whatsoever so if you wait and wait, you'll wait for the rest of your life
i'm jumping on the wagon here, and i'm pretty satisfied actually, but since this is my 1st android phone, i have nothing to compare
gingerbread is definitely come to us , so i dont really care if the requirements need tegra 2
if my tab can handle it, so rock on, if it cant, then just wait for another device capable of gingerbread and sell this one
but since nexus S is using the same 1ghz and using gingerbread also, i dont think tegra 2 is necessary for it
maybe for honeycomb, we'll never know
keep crossing ur finger ^^
Thanks for your quick response. I hope your right with the requirements since it really makes sense that the nexus s would be apple to opgrade.
To me miren Browser is very laggy i really want to use it just don't run smoothly. Thinking about trying flashing one of the roms out there maybe I should wait for a official.
It's not the processor, it's the OS! and Gingerbread aint gonna fix it because it aint designed for tablets. Honeycombe is 'supposed' to be designed for use with tablets so you'll have to wait until 3Q 2011.
I don't know why people are surprised when they realise this as 'sticky', 'laggy', 'freezing' were words all mentioned in every review i've ever read about the tab.
Unless of course you only read Samsungs own review which would be slightly bias.
simon2901 said:
[...]
The reason why i am thinking that now is that i just read on Engadget that the Galaxy tab 2 will have Tegra 2 and that it seems very likely that Tegra 2 will be the processor in allot of gingerbread android tablet. Is the hummingbird to slow to handle higher resolution screens? (I really, REALLY hope that is not the case)
Maybe someone with a Archos 101 could prove me wrong (or another android tablet with higher res)???
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I once had a Toshiba Folio 100 with a Tegra 2 processor (for 5 days ) and it was just as fast/slow as the Tab. Don't know if Gingerbread is going to make the nvidea processor perform a lot better. As far as I know it is a driver thing.
Except for the browser, I think the Tab is fast enough for me.
This performance thing is relative. For example simon2901 you said htc hd2 has better android performance. I have both tab and hd2 now, nearly tried every android build for hd2 but cant find anything that has the performance that makes me feel really usable. But you think the opposite and this shows how relative this thing can be.
I flashed my tab to jm6 as Justin^Tan and i am agree with him. People say it is silky or very smooth but i all can say is it is smoother then my stock rom. Another proof of how this can be relative.
And i agree with appleflap except browser tab is enough for me too. Browser is enough in most cases for me too but when i browse a fully loaded page with flash it really is a pain.
As from the Gingerbread i only expect is make power drain of some apps more reasonable.
It's the OS... I come from an OS for which bloggers like to make fun (WM 6.5.5), however the custom ROMs for my TP2 were in the end quite fast. And I feel like I had more functionalities
This has nothing to do with Samsung's hardware. The Hummingbird is actually as (more) powerful as what you find in the iPad (And we have more memory with our Tab)
If I were you I would not expect too much from Gingerbread. Doesn't look like much more than a minor upgrade with a few tweaks. Quite different from the move from 2.1 to 2.2 let's put our hope sin Honeycombs...
It's kind of normal, it's a young OS and to be honest it's impressive to see the work that has been accomplished since the first versions of android. Given its quick growth we can hope to see more and more good apps and hopefully improved support for custom ROMs. That said teh Tab doesnt seem so popular among modders and chefs (maybe because of the price ? Or just because Clockwork seems more difficult to develop ?) so I ma not sure we can hope that much for the future for us
Gingerbread actually does have some performance improvements imho. Running it on my nexus one and the screen transitions have improved over Froyo (dare I say - as silky smooth as on the ipad? ). So I would expect the Tab to feel a bit slicker too once it gets some Gingerbread love. Personally, I'm not finding the Tab to be sluggish at all. Running Launcher Pro, JM6 firmware, Miren browser, a few widgets, tons of apps, no live wallpaper, and it's all very smooth.
Jm 6 is that a custom rom or just a minor update, how does it compare to stock, since mine certainly not smooth with miren. I laggs so much only opera is useable
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simon2901 said:
Jm 6 is that a custom rom or just a minor update, how does it compare to stock, since mine certainly not smooth with miren. I laggs so much only opera is useable
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JM6 is a Euro firmware that's been posted in the dev section here. I'm not sure it improves performance compared to stock, but then I flashed this pretty much the same day as I got the Tab so can't really compare . I believe it has some performance improvements with the stock browser, but I prefer Miren anyway. I really don't see any lagging with Miren, or at least none that I can't attribute to poor wifi connections etc. It's certainly way slicker than the stock browser. The pinch to zoom font rendering on stock is appalling whereas on Miren it preserves quality. Not tried Opera on the Tab though I hear it's fast...
Have you tried using a different launcher than stock Touchwiz? Launcher Pro or ADW should both give you improvements in performance.
That so many people's first experiences with it are probably as a demo unit, I can see why they say it doesn't feel as smooth as an iPad.
Aye, you can swap launchers and tweak settings.
But most stores have them running loaded up with widgets, running some livewallpaper, and touchwiz. It IS jerky. Or rather, not as smooth as the iPad.
Ok, so the job still gets done, and as a techy myself, I'm happy with what's doable, but that perception amongst most users is that it's not as smooth as it could be seems to be an obvious win if they can sort it out.
Even on the Tab, bringing the Notifiction bar down; sure it's fast enough, but it doesn't animate as it scrolls down (though if it did, personally I'd want an option to turn that off so it insta dropped!).
That all the hardware coming out now has pretty decent openGL support now, I can see that'll be the main thing in future UI improvements, moving more of it to hardware acceleration. I get a feeling that it's all being done in software.
It can only get better from here. A bit of polish on the first thing most users will see will be hugely beneficial later.
I find almost all of the above judgements entirely false. The OS workd perfectlyt for me without any lag or any kind of lag fixes. Im on JK5.
All it takes is a few shrewd decisions on the software that you use with the OS. My browser doesnt lag - I use the Fennec nighly builds which are silky smooth with opengl rendering and without.
I have removed bloatware and services that clog up the purity of googles stock 2.2.
I do use a task manager to kill certain services on a selewctive basis.
I get 2 days light use out of it, which is just fine!
And there is never any lag anywhere.
Now i must say that i am really bugged out about this Tab, it is super slick, the screen and the form factor is nice, the internals are great ( much the same as the new google developer phone, that should be good?) but still this thing runs poorly on froyo 2.2. Really i dont see people saying this is acceptable, since i really dont think it is, i dont mean to flame, since i love android and phones in generel, but even my Htc hd2 had smoother performance than the tab, i find that hard to be true.
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This is acceptable.
There, I said it. I find it to be perfectly smooth, not sure why you're having a problem with it.
Use DolphinHD as the browser as it offers far more functionality than the default, and use ADW or LauncherPro as the homescreen as they both offer more functionality and better performance than the default.
As mentioned, gingerbread will offer a performance increase, but it's unlikely to be significant. It's entirely possible that Samsung will never port Honeycomb to the tab as they'll want to use it as a selling point for the Galaxy Tab 2 when it eventually comes out (and who knows when that'll be), the future is most likely going to come from custom ROMs if you want to improve the device as it stands.
I always purchase hardware with what CAN be done with it in mind, not what MIGHT be done to it in the future. Hoping for upgrades is a waste of energy, if you don't like the hardware in its initial state, or a state that you can transform it to straight away (rooting it, flashing already available ROMs etc) then don't purchase it, simple as that.
knightnz said:
As mentioned, gingerbread will offer a performance increase, but it's unlikely to be significant. It's entirely possible that Samsung will never port Honeycomb to the tab as they'll want to use it as a selling point for the Galaxy Tab 2 when it eventually comes out (and who knows when that'll be), the future is most likely going to come from custom ROMs if you want to improve the device as it stands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, by the time the Galaxy Tab 2 comes out, I would think Samsung would stop officially selling the Galaxy Tab 1 so it wouldn't matter if the Tab1 had Honeycomb or not. Its' not like it would be cutting into Galaxy Tab 2 sales.
well im glad some have good experiences with the web and smoothness of the device, i think i forgot to say that i am currenty on stock rom as i bought it, i read that there is some good performance improvements in the leaked firmware updates, still i would wait rooting, doing all that stuff untill things settle down a bit, it all seems confusing to me atm ( maybe it just is more complicated compared to winmo, htc hd2).
Well reading about the newer firmware out there got me in a better mood, knowing that samsung knows that things are not right yet is very comforting, i mean, i would assume all tabs sold in Denmark have the same firmware as mine, and that means bad performance compared to even the galaxy s, that is not acceptable, not at all.
Saying that this is a phone os and so on and therefore things dont run as expected. is neither acceptable since it should not run worse on a bigger device, i mean android do not discriminate? I am not looking for Ipad performance, since i got one in the household, and i still prefer using the tab, even though browsing is better on Safari (Flash dont work properly atm, rather just use the new youtubeclient, which i enjoy except the quality should be higher( proberly will be in time)
It is great to read your comments, gotta love xda
even if they stop selling galaxy tab 1, if they did release honeycomb into tab 1, people would hold onto their tab 1 if there's no significant upgrade on hardware
but if they dare only giving honeycomb onto tab 2, some people would definitely jump onto tab 2 for sure
It is never ending search for perfection that does not exist.
Something will come tomorrow with better CPU/GPU/screen.....
My experience is good enough. I turned of animation - major cause of lags, left one widget. Everything works just fine for my taste.
Hmm well is that fine Having to turn of animations and not use widgets? i just hope we will see custom roms with newer versions. What firmware v. are you using?
I'm really thinking about trying newer builds
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I still don't get the "lag"that everyone is noticing.I'm using dolphin HD and it's perfectly smooth for me. I did root and lagfix, not sure if that is the difference.
paulshields said:
Gingerbread actually does have some performance improvements imho. Running it on my nexus one and the screen transitions have improved over Froyo (dare I say - as silky smooth as on the ipad? ). So I would expect the Tab to feel a bit slicker too once it gets some Gingerbread love. Personally, I'm not finding the Tab to be sluggish at all. Running Launcher Pro, JM6 firmware, Miren browser, a few widgets, tons of apps, no live wallpaper, and it's all very smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool good to know about the perf improvement
Sad to see the ipad is still "the" reference
Hey guys, I know its kind of a stupid thing to start a thread on so just spear with me
In 2009 I had an iPhone 3GS. Its was the latest iPhone in 2009 and was super fast. No lags on opening apps, closing apps, multitasking, scrolling screen and stuff like that. It was 99% LAGFREE. Games worked wonderful. I'm a big fan of hacking, so I jailbroke the iPhone and it still remained smooth and fast. For those who don't know, iPhone 3GS has a 779mhz CPU (apple clocked it down to 600mhz to prevent battery drains and other instabilities) and only 256mb ram. Now I have an international version of galaxy S that is clocked to 1.3 GHZ that has a 512 MB of RAM and believe me its slower than the iPhone. I just want to know what is wrong with our phones? Does apple use some magic superpowers on their devices? Opening apps lags, closing apps lags the home screen scrolling for some time, there are frequent crashing due to low RAM, there's lags in browser :S the music player lacks things as filtering of files, it has a worse reception than the iPhone 3gs. GPS is not goood. Even typing is sometimes laggy... the new jellybean made it a lil more like an iPhone due to its 60hz refresh rate and triple buffering but it still lags. Can you guys give me your opinions on this and stuff? Again I'm not trying to complain, I'm just wondering how could this be possible.
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I agree.Ios has more stability then android in os side... But who cares? Personally if i wpuld buy an iphone,i would definetly get bored after 1 month BECAUSE the same ui on everu ios version! Also i am not talking about screen sizes...
Actually i dunno what to say if someonr give me an iphone free i would use it
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Apple can optimize their software for the iPhone because the iPhone is the only phone with iOS whereas the Android OS is on hundreds of devices with very diverse hardware. But today's modern android phones IMO takes a big dookie on iOS (Galaxy S3, HTC One X, etc.) & Android is only improving
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Chew DZ said:
Apple can optimize their software for the iPhone because the iPhone is the only phone with iOS whereas the Android OS is on hundreds of devices with very diverse hardware. But today's modern android phones IMO takes a big dookie on iOS (Galaxy S3, HTC One X, etc.) & Android is only improving
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I know they're kinda improving with the new JELLYBEAN with butter and stuff, but now most of them don't support old devices like the most powerful galaxy S xD
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Well, as far as I know the UI of Android is rendered by the CPU and not by the GPU (who actually should render the UI).
You can compare that with a Windows PC where you want to play Battlefield 3 just with your CPU and not with the GPU.
Chew DZ said it right: Apple has only one Phone to improve. They know the exact Hardware and can improve the software upon this device. But Android is mainly developed by Google. And Google doen't know what Hardware the phones have Android runs on. They only know, that they must have a CPU, so in the beginning they told Android to render its UI on the CPU and not on the GPU.
Currently Google changes this. Project Butter renders the UI on the GPU, if there is one in the phone. That's why Jelly Bean is so much smoother than any other previous Android version.
Jelly Bean can also be installed on our Galaxy S, but Samsung wants us to buy newer phones, like the Galaxy S3. Therfore they won't invest time and money to develop a Jelly Bean version for the Galaxy S. But as soon as CM10 is stable, you can enjoy the pure Jelly Bean power on your Galaxy S.
Knobibrot said:
Well, as far as I know the UI of Android is rendered by the CPU and not by the GPU (who actually should render the UI).
You can compare that with a Windows PC where you want to play Battlefield 3 just with your CPU and not with the GPU.
Chew DZ said it right: Apple has only one Phone to improve. They know the exact Hardware and can improve the software upon this device. But Android is mainly developed by Google. And Google doen't know what Hardware the phones have Android runs on. They only know, that they must have a CPU, so in the beginning they told Android to render its UI on the CPU and not on the GPU.
Currently Google changes this. Project Butter renders the UI on the GPU, if there is one in the phone. That's why Jelly Bean is so much smoother than any other previous Android version.
Jelly Bean can also be installed on our Galaxy S, but Samsung wants us to buy newer phones, like the Galaxy S3. Therfore they won't invest time and money to develop a Jelly Bean version for the Galaxy S. But as soon as CM10 is stable, you can enjoy the pure Jelly Bean power on your Galaxy S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oooooh so then its all about rendering? I didn't think the UI was rendered by the CPU... Plus this still doesn't answer the RAM starving of the apps... I think some edition of app priorities and such could improve things...
EDIT: as you said apple has only one phone, why can't the Android device manufacturers like Samsung or Sony Ericson improve their hardware according to the android software like apple does? Google could communicate with the device companies about new releases and changes to the OS so that the manufacturers would consider it and tweak their devices hardware
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Helloworld294 said:
Hey guys, I know its kind of a stupid thing to start a thread on so just spear with me
In 2009 I had an iPhone 3GS. Its was the latest iPhone in 2009 and was super fast. No lags on opening apps, closing apps, multitasking, scrolling screen and stuff like that. It was 99% LAGFREE. Games worked wonderful. I'm a big fan of hacking, so I jailbroke the iPhone and it still remained smooth and fast. For those who don't know, iPhone 3GS has a 779mhz CPU (apple clocked it down to 600mhz to prevent battery drains and other instabilities) and only 256mb ram. Now I have an international version of galaxy S that is clocked to 1.3 GHZ that has a 512 MB of RAM and believe me its slower than the iPhone. I just want to know what is wrong with our phones? Does apple use some magic superpowers on their devices? Opening apps lags, closing apps lags the home screen scrolling for some time, there are frequent crashing due to low RAM, there's lags in browser :S the music player lacks things as filtering of files, it has a worse reception than the iPhone 3gs. GPS is not goood. Even typing is sometimes laggy... the new jellybean made it a lil more like an iPhone due to its 60hz refresh rate and triple buffering but it still lags. Can you guys give me your opinions on this and stuff? Again I'm not trying to complain, I'm just wondering how could this be possible.
Sent from my GT-I9000
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah Sure, iPhone is more stable than Android.
But If we will not root our android then android is stable & good compared to iPhone.
Galaxy S is cheaper than iPhone that's it's slow.
Major Problems starts when we try to root our Android & Install custom roms. But I like android because I like Custom Roms & More Setting in my phone.
In Short, price of iPhone 4s and Galaxy S3 is same. Galaxy S3 has double GHz processor than iPhone 4S.
So I don't think that Galaxy S3 is slower than iPhone 4S.
I have iphone 4 and galaxy s i9000. I cant see multitasking on iphone as you mentioned. When I start to download something from browser and open another application sametime, downloading stops or IOS pauses one app to function another. Obviously one at a time is faster,
Anyway, my galaxy s with overclocked upto 1200 Mhz is faster then iphone 4.
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I have had every Iphone version, and i have had a galaxy ace and currently have an S. The S stock is about the same performance as my iphone 4, but Apple doesn't enable true multitasking by default. Ios backgrounds apps, and Android does as well. The ace I had was almost the same performance as my 3gs, which is my back up phone at the moment. My S stock was about the same as my 4, but overclocked it makes my 4 look slow and laggy. If the iphone is jailbroke, which all mine are, you can enable multitasking. Its a personal preference, my wife uses the ios devices, I use the android stuff. I like being able to download something through the browser and open up another app, which is where multitasking shines. My wife just does one thing at a time.
manvi111 said:
But If we will not root our android then android is stable & good compared to iPhone.
...
Major Problems starts when we try to root our Android & Install custom roms. But I like android because I like Custom Roms & More Setting in my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that is your experience, you're using the wrong CustomRoms. Samsung Roms are crap.. sorry for this, but they blow up the rom with unnecessary stuff. (have you ever used Layer??)
Darkyy was the first to release a Samsung based CustomRom that runs smooth and fast.
Helloworld294 said:
Oooooh so then its all about rendering? I didn't think the UI was rendered by the CPU... Plus this still doesn't answer the RAM starving of the apps... I think some edition of app priorities and such could improve things...
EDIT: as you said apple has only one phone, why can't the Android device manufacturers like Samsung or Sony Ericson improve their hardware according to the android software like apple does? Google could communicate with the device companies about new releases and changes to the OS so that the manufacturers would consider it and tweak their devices hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The lags you experience are mostly UI lags. And yes of cause this does not answer the RAM thing. But as mentioned before: Android has true multitasking. Therefore the apps use more RAM and more CPU power = RAM starving + lags.
Samsung does work together with Google to ensure good performance BUT only on Nexus devices. The Nexus S e.g. is almost the same as the Galaxy S, it just does not have TouchWiz. Look up the Nexus S forum to see, that this devices does not have any lag-issues. Same with Galaxy Nexus. They don't work with Google on any other devices because 1. that costs a lot of money and 2. Samsung doesn't want to be the company that always needs Google to improve there devices.
Knobibrot said:
If that is your experience, you're using the wrong CustomRoms. Samsung Roms are crap.. sorry for this, but they blow up the rom with unnecessary stuff. (have you ever used Layer??)
Darkyy was the first to release a Samsung based CustomRom that runs smooth and fast.
The lags you experience are mostly UI lags. And yes of cause this does not answer the RAM thing. But as mentioned before: Android has true multitasking. Therefore the apps use more RAM and more CPU power = RAM starving + lags.
Samsung does work together with Google to ensure good performance BUT only on Nexus devices. The Nexus S e.g. is almost the same as the Galaxy S, it just does not have TouchWiz. Look up the Nexus S forum to see, that this devices does not have any lag-issues. Same with Galaxy Nexus. They don't work with Google on any other devices because 1. that costs a lot of money and 2. Samsung doesn't want to be the company that always needs Google to improve there devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sammmy ROMs became fast in the newer versions...it's already enough to delete the bloatware, and you can already say that they're as fast as ICS/JB.
Samsung .... any time , better hardware , Better philosophy , better prices , open minded …
Them… the looks, they do take care of appearance
I bought a Nexus 7 for my son and I've been dealing with software issues since day 1. Apps crash regularly, when I hit the home button, many games don't stop (you can hear the music play in the background), web browser stops for 1-3 seconds occasionally, and this morning when I clicked on Settings it was frozen for 10 seconds and came up with "Settings is not responding". Even though I hit "Wait", it rebooted itself.
If I compare this 3-day old device to my highly skinned Samsung Note 10.1, I'd go with the SGN any day, because not one app crash or random reboot happened so far (I've had it for more than a month). Please note that I'm running the exact apps/games on the SGN. When I had a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1" and 7" in the past, the experience was the same (problem free).
The tablet that I had before SGN was a Toshiba Excite 10.1 running a stock ICS (Toshiba only added few of their apps, that was it). It was a nightmare as well. Web browser crash, frozen screen, random reboots. etc. happened all the time.
The root of the problems could be hardware related, but both Nexus/Asus and Toshiba with stock Android had numerous similar issues. At the end of the day, with my limited experience, I'm a non-stock Android believer, not to mention all the extras Samsung built on top of stock Android (e.g., multiscreen, mini apps, etc). Yes, I do understand that updates are delayed with non-stock Android versions, but I'd rather use a problem-free device and wait a little longer for an update.
I agree with you on the Nexus, mine is stock and even launching apps like Wallet my tablet freezes almost everytime. I don't think it's a hardware issue, I think it's more a software issue. As for as the GN101, so far I have found it solid without the need for any ROM changes at all.
The obsession with stock came from a time when devices were underpowered and didn't have enough RAM. Manufacturer overlays really bogged down performance. So the XDA devs went on a quest to offer AOSP/AOKP alternatives. Back then, going naked really did improve device usability.
With quad-core processors and 1.5/2 GB of RAM becoming the new standard the overlays really don't interfere the way they used to. They also add a lot of value with additional audio and video codec support, faster alternative toggles and menus, more functions added to apps (EG: camera), usability features (EG: SmartStay), and better integration between apps which helps people be more productive.
You'll hear people talking about being "bloat free." By the time someone's done loading third party versions (sometimes multiples because one won't work for everything) of apps that come pre-installed they have more crap on their device than the OEM version. I truly wonder if a lot of people even use their devices to do anything. You see post after post about how lag free their transitions are but you never hear them talk about actually using any of the apps they have installed or trying to accomplish a specific task.
As for your situation with the N7 I think a lot of the issues are h/w related. You don't hear people on the SGS3 or Note II forum running in to similar issues. There are h/w related issues on Asus' premium tablets so if anything their budget tablet shouldn't be expected to perform any better.
Mainstream shoppers like overlays. In the Apple case it came out that Samsung sold only 500K Galaxy Nexi. That's a pretty embarrassing number considering all the chatter about "pure Google" and the cult following Nexus devices are supposed to have.
Definitely not SW issue. Vanilla android is as stable as it gets. It can only get worse from there. The nexus 7 is an Asus device, which are known for i/o issues as described. The reason aosp is always 'buggy' on (insert device) is because alot of modifications are needed to get it running on most devices, making for a possible unstable build. Manufacturer's skins absolutely slow down the device, but with the newest gen dual/quad core processors, the newer devices run pretty darn fast stock...
Try cm10 on the note and you'll see how much more efficient it is... But you'll also see minor issues like camera not working
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prenedo said:
Definitely not SW issue. Vanilla android is as stable as it gets. It can only get worse from there. The nexus 7 is an Asus device, which are known for i/o issues as described. The reason aosp is always 'buggy' on (insert device) is because alot of modifications are needed to get it running on most devices, making for a possible unstable build. Manufacturer's skins absolutely slow down the device, but with the newest gen dual/quad core processors, the newer devices run pretty darn fast stock...
Try cm10 on the note and you'll see how much more efficient it is... But you'll also see minor issues like camera not working
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I don't understand the point "Vanilla android is as stable as it gets........The reason aosp is always 'buggy' on (insert device) is because alot of modifications are needed to get it running on most devices, making for a possible unstable build". If each manufacturer needs to modify it to run it on their device, then which device runs the "vanilla" android?
tenderidol said:
I guess I don't understand the point "Vanilla android is as stable as it gets........The reason aosp is always 'buggy' on (insert device) is because alot of modifications are needed to get it running on most devices, making for a possible unstable build". If each manufacturer needs to modify it to run it on their device, then which device runs the "vanilla" android?
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Nexus devices. Manufacturers add more functionality and appearance to stock android (ie, TW, sense, blur) which present more of an opportunity for errors/bugs.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
prenedo said:
Nexus devices. Manufacturers add more functionality and appearance to stock android (ie, TW, sense, blur) which present more of an opportunity for errors/bugs.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
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It's ironic, because I'm having issues with a Nexus device while the SGN with Touchwiz works without any issues.
tenderidol said:
It's ironic, because I'm having issues with a Nexus device while the SGN with Touchwiz works without any issues.
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The theory of Nexus is much different than the practice. Different radios and even bands make it as fragmented as a skinned device.
Well I have a note 10.1 and nexus 7. Note is completely stock and runs flawless. My nexus 7 is running stock rom with custom kernel. That runs flawless also. Even before custom kernel, superstock, it ran extremely well without any issues for me. My nexus 7 never had issues OP described. Nexus 7 is stable as a mofo never had any issue with that Asus tablet. So lets not go there with since its an Asus, its automatically bad/defective or whatever..lol.
I also have a SG3 which is great superStock.
tenderidol said:
I bought a Nexus 7 for my son and I've been dealing with software issues since day 1. Apps crash regularly, when I hit the home button, many games don't stop (you can hear the music play in the background), web browser stops for 1-3 seconds occasionally, and this morning when I clicked on Settings it was frozen for 10 seconds and came up with "Settings is not responding". Even though I hit "Wait", it rebooted itself.
If I compare this 3-day old device to my highly skinned Samsung Note 10.1, I'd go with the SGN any day, because not one app crash or random reboot happened so far (I've had it for more than a month). Please note that I'm running the exact apps/games on the SGN. When I had a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1" and 7" in the past, the experience was the same (problem free).
The tablet that I had before SGN was a Toshiba Excite 10.1 running a stock ICS (Toshiba only added few of their apps, that was it). It was a nightmare as well. Web browser crash, frozen screen, random reboots. etc. happened all the time.
The root of the problems could be hardware related, but both Nexus/Asus and Toshiba with stock Android had numerous similar issues. At the end of the day, with my limited experience, I'm a non-stock Android believer, not to mention all the extras Samsung built on top of stock Android (e.g., multiscreen, mini apps, etc). Yes, I do understand that updates are delayed with non-stock Android versions, but I'd rather use a problem-free device and wait a little longer for an update.
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Try vanilla android on a samsung device like the galaxy nexus and you will have a very different experience. Asus devices are fine once some tweaks have been made, but my tf300 was extremely sluggish on stock. Just got the note and it blows the doors off my tf300 in every category except the note does not have jellybean yet and the tf300 does.
demandarin said:
My nexus 7 never had issues OP described.
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Here's what I've learned by researching IO on Asus' tablets. People who have no issues and people *****ing about lag etc. are both right. It depends on what you're doing with the device. People with a lot of syncs running in the background or that have multiple apps or a single multithreaded app going that create concurrent processes are more likely to experience issues. Here's a post from someone I know well talking about it. I actually shipped him his N7 from the States. If he says it lags, it lags. His post is in a 67 page thread aptly entitled "The LAG Thread."
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1776538
There's another recently discovered issue that occurs when available storage drops below 3GB. Performance hits the wall. So one or both are probably causing OP's issues.
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/09/17/nexus-7-performance-issues/
Well I have a galaxy nexus and ever since jellybean its smoother than ever, sometimes even better than on my note 10.1 except if its on cm 10
Just look at the size of the ROMs cm10 is 150 mb while for example high on android is 750 mb, there's definitely a difference performance wise
If you ran stock JB on Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 and then the skinned JB (when it finally drops) and you'd see a difference I'm sure. Not AS much since this tablet is a beast, but you'd see improvements.
If vanilla android was the issue, skinning it could only make it worse. They are still utilizing all of the code of vanilla android, and adding their own stuff to it. That can only bog things down. It does on every device I've ever seen.
Finally, I've never heard or see these issues on the Nexus 7. Sounds like you got a lemon. Everything I've heard is that it's the most fluid tablet to date.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
PsiPhiDan said:
If you ran stock JB on Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 and then the skinned JB (when it finally drops) and you'd see a difference I'm sure. Not AS much since this tablet is a beast, but you'd see improvements.
If vanilla android was the issue, skinning it could only make it worse. They are still utilizing all of the code of vanilla android, and adding their own stuff to it. That can only bog things down. It does on every device I've ever seen.
Finally, I've never heard or see these issues on the Nexus 7. Sounds like you got a lemon. Everything I've heard is that it's the most fluid tablet to date.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
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You should visit the Nexus 7 sub-forum (especially the Lag thread) for an alternate view.
The 'obsession' with AOSP stems from a Linux purity thrust. Most OEMs do NOT release their mods to android back as open source contributions, which technically, under the gnu gpl, they should. Samsung-skinned android OS is kind of like Linux mint as opposed to Linux Fedora. Fedora comes out of the box with ABSOLUTELY NO proprietary software, whereas Linux mint ships with flash, Google search (which is NOT open source). So when you run Konqueror (stock KDE browser) you have to download and choose Google as your search engine. Otherwise, it uses duckduckgo, which I prefer..I use ddg on my android tablets even.... I just don't like my search history being chronicled.
AOSP was started in this spirit, which is why gApps are separate and have to be flashed independedntly. Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjaC8Pq9-V0&feature=youtube_gdata_player for more information, and a ton of geeky fun.
GT-P6800
GT-N8013
The 'obsession' is because in the past vanilla Android was clearly faster/more stable than skinned versions. If I compare the Galaxy S to the Nexus S, touchwiz was a slow laggy joke while vanilla Android outperformed it in every way.
Add to that much faster updates, which was much more important as Android matured, and a stellar dev community, and you have a group of people who have preferred Nexus devices over any other.
It has also been easier to flash Nexus devices, and they are virtually impossible to brick. You dont need to use anything like Kies/Odin/Heimdall etc, just install the Android SDK and use fastboot/ADB to set it up, then off you go. Unlocking a bootloader is a single command you use once, and you dont need to flash new bootloaders for updated versions of Android (updating my A500 was a complete pain compared to my Nexus S because of this).
The current generation of Samsung devices are IMO the first gen where Touchwiz works really well. I have absolutely no desire to flash any ROM over the stock Sammy ROM because it works so freaking well. If i get a Note 2 i'm sure it'll be the same, but i am still waiting to see what the new Nexus devices will look like.
I think with the Note 10.1 we have an excellent device that helps us forget just how buggy and crap Touchwiz has been in the past.
poid, most of those problems you mentioned are still true.
Adding the manufacturer's customisations to Android still results in fewer and slower Android OS updates, still results in slower, clunky software (this is not so much a problem on extremely powerful processors like in the Note - more noticeable on slow processors like the Tab 2 - why they downgraded the processor in that I'll never know).
Touchwiz has indeed improved a lot, but the fact that it is a customised version of Android still means that Samsung has more work to do in order to push out upgrades and optimise the new software to run smoothly on the device.
tenderidol said:
It's ironic, because I'm having issues with a Nexus device while the SGN with Touchwiz works without any issues.
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thats not because of vanilla android, its because of asus hw. the galnex with stock jellybean (the kind that it boots with, no cm or aokp) is just as solid as this, and most of the custom roms are as well. the galaxy nexus did not sell many units because not a lot of people know a lot about nexus and the android ecosystem, and it wasnt as hyped with all the commercials and ads as, say the gs2, gs3, or one x.
aletheus said:
The 'obsession' with AOSP stems from a Linux purity thrust. Most OEMs do NOT release their mods to android back as open source contributions, which technically, under the gnu gpl, they should. Samsung-skinned android OS is kind of like Linux mint as opposed to Linux Fedora. Fedora comes out of the box with ABSOLUTELY NO proprietary software, whereas Linux mint ships with flash, Google search (which is NOT open source). So when you run Konqueror (stock KDE browser) you have to download and choose Google as your search engine. Otherwise, it uses duckduckgo, which I prefer..I use ddg on my android tablets even.... I just don't like my search history being chronicled.
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All 100% true. And meaningless to the 95% of Android users not considered "enthusiasts." The SGS2 sold 28MM the Note I 7MM and the SGS3 20MM in 100 days. The GN sold 500K. That kind of tells you what the general device purchaser thinks is important and it isn't AOSP. Performance isn't about h/w or s/w in isolation. The GN has a crappy camera, awful display, and horrible battery life. AOSP and JB or KLP can't fix that. Same thing with the h/w issues on the N7. Samsung's always done a great job of tuning the h/w and s/w on their devices to perform better together. Samsung's stock browsers have always blown away all others because of the h/w acceleration they include. Same thing with the additional codecs they provide for audio and video. It's nice to have options through the devs on XDA but not everyone views their devices as a science project.
MercuryStar said:
poid, most of those problems you mentioned are still true.
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The performance issues are pretty much gone because of more RAM and faster processors. I have a Teg3 One X and I love Sense. The integration between apps makes me more productive and allows me to get stuff done (EG: rejecting a call with a message and adding it as a task to Outlook to follow-up with one swipe) faster than diddling with a bunch of non-integrated third party apps. Since I actually use my devices getting a 1K higher score in AnTuTu or orgasming over screen transitions is less important than what they're capable of actually doing. The price you pay for an overlay is later (if at all) updates but to some that's an OK trade off. Ask the VZW and Sprint GN owners about getting updates on their "pure Google" devices. They may not agree that's a benefit that always works as described.
poid said:
The current generation of Samsung devices are IMO the first gen where Touchwiz works really well. I have absolutely no desire to flash any ROM over the stock Sammy ROM because it works so freaking well.
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I can't root and ROM because of security and registering on foreign GSM networks when I'm traveling so I couldn’t if I wanted to. But I agree with you. The Note and my One X (after the last update) don't leave me wishing I could.
Nexus 7 is very flawed . but not its os
I will be getting my note 10.1 tomorrow or wed at the latest.
I see alot of nexus 7 talk in this thread and thought i would tell my story.
The nexus 7 software is very nice near flawless there is some issues with touch response and dead spots on the screen. The device itself has a huge design flaw . This is caused by two things. Number one being the bezel is to small under the screen . the lip on the left side has been reduced to allow for the digitizer connections this causes either the bezel to warp or the screen to become loose and lift up and move. This movement is causing screens to crack and shatter. There are issues with A Yellowish spots burn in on the screen as well as screen flashing from issues with light sensor calibration. CM 10 Does help with that issue some. but shutting off the sensor. There are people posting about the device making a squeeling sound then just going off and never coming back on Speakers going bad or not working head phone jack not working.. And so on..
I had a nexus pre order it came in with a few of the above issues. I got a advanced replacement had to send it back on the day it arrived because of huge screen issues. Due to the big hassle with trying to get a refund i sent the other back. its been nearly two months They have both devices back and all of my money..
IN SHORT the nexus 7 is plegued with issues if you have one and its working Lucky you.. But there are more bad then good.. it was pushed to market too soon in my opinion.. but the device i had ran very well and fast . its a great size to pack around but not so good for web browsing .screen to small..
Anyway my opinion only read the nexus 7 forum if you feel anything about is wrong . its all there ..
thanks all ... I eagerly await my note 10.1 tablet ..
Even though I work at at&t, all my experience with phone basically boils down to troubleshooting moreso than UI or capabilities.
Things to be excited about? Things to know about moving up from android 4.0.3 and from HTC Sense to Touchwiz?
Get me excited people!
So many great software updates between 4.0/4.2, can't remember them all. As far as the phone compared with a 9505: http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=4302&idPhone2=5371
Definitely a lot to be excited about for such an upgrade. The Galaxy S4 is lighter, much more colorful display, almost double the pixels per inch, much higher resolution, much better screen protection with Gorilla Glass 3, more expandable storage, double the RAM (and using DDR3 instead of DDR2), better connectivity, Bluetooth 4.0, comes with NFC tagging/Infrared blaster, better cameras, way more camera/software features, more than double the processing power, superior GPU, more sensors, better browser support, and finally, a much better battery.
Sense/Wiz, not too different from each other as far as complexity. You might actually find TouchWiz easier to use unless you're wholly accommodated to Sense.
I also have a vivid...but used to have a Samsung infuse...so with that said:
Your going to love the s4...for me...its really the little things that make me love Samsung so much more than HTC...I love there layout on the music player, the contacts app...I don't know...its just these little features they sneak in hear and there that you take for granted and than when you get a non Samsung device you suddenly realise how useful all those little features are and how much you miss them...idk, I just can't wait to be reunited with Samsung...sense looks nice, bit touchwiz is my favorite manufacturer ui. And the best part....Samsung makes it so easy to root and flash Roms, something that's a pain with HTC...no more bootloaders to worry about, no more having to s-off...just a quick flash of a kernel through Odin/heimdall and your ready to flash roms
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Quick backstory: My phone history is HTC Thunderbolt, HTC Droid DNA, HTC One M8 and the Nexus 6 (since the M9 didn't show me anything good enough). I've stayed away from Galaxy phones since I heard that the OS on top of Stock was laggy and overall not very good. Obviously they've fixed things since it's a hugely popular phone, but compared to Sense and Stock, is it comparable, or even better at this point? Thanks for your time.
Comparable to Sense. Stock/AOSP is smoother/faster. HOWEVER, you sacrifice all the Touchwiz improvements. Best camera, battery life, multiwindow, floating window, etc. They all have their pros/cons
My opinion is that it has gotten much better. Back with the GS4 and GS5 it was pretty laggy at times and I used a custom launcher (novalauncher) as my daily driver.
Since the GS6, Note 5, and i'm assuming the S7... touchwiz has been thinned down and is much improved. I haven't used nova since my S5 days.
The features are now there that i used to use nova for: (customizing the bottom bar, and the grid size) I just don't need the other features that custom launchers provide.
my opinion, is that I think it is just a bullet point for the trolls or haters to easily harp on.
But that is my opinion... I think you will read others feel the same way about TW throughout those generations.
I myself have never owned a Samsung smartphone (The S7 Edge will be my first), BUT over the years I have used a handful of different Samsung devices with TouchWiz owned by my friends and family...and of course I've seen review videos and screenshots online. There's no doubt that TouchWiz has gotten less obtrusive and looks more like Stock Android nowadays. They've toned down the gaudy, over-the-top design elements and putrid shades of teal to make it much simpler and inviting.
Of course, though, it still obviously is TouchWiz. But that's not a bad thing in my book. I used to be a very "Stock Android only" kind of guy, but ever since they've toned TouchWiz down, I actually find it more appealing than Stock, which I now find quite boring. TouchWiz looks nice and adds a lot of cool features, so you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
I had the note 3 and used Nova Launcher. Touch Wiz wasn't thaaaat bad but I just hated it from some reason. I think it was because the app drawer launcher was not in the center or something. Completely petty, but drove me crazy! I also didn't like something about the menu. I like Nova's customizations.
No it's not.
All these bad rap Touchwiz gets is usually from Nexus elitist. The Nexus elitist are the worst fanboys out there.
I've never used it, so I have no reference or bias. I guess that's a good thing.
Nope its not as bad and bloated as it used to be
For me, it was never that bad since the S4. But Touchwiz from those days compared to now, is night and day. Even the most nitpicking users are giving today's Touchwiz some praise.
ive had the s4, note 3, s6, note 5, and my coming s7 edge and i can say that touchwiz is finally the coming along really nicely. the s6 showed MASSIVE improvement in my opinion
yes, guilty of being a samsung fanboy
I hate TW, I use HTC launcher and weather on every device including my note 5. Will use this on the my S7 too.
To answer the question, no it isn't. Half the people who say it's bad still think of it as it was in the S2/S3. It's moved on and so should they.
It's not bad but coming from manufactures that don't do as much tweaking with their OS as Samsung does... you might miss a few things. Samsung likes to take an almost Apple-like approach to their phones in the sense that they only want you to do the things they want you to do as opposed to things maybe you'd like to do.
I've always been pro-Nexus but do miss the TouchWiz camera and multi-window feature that Samsung has gotten so damn good at..
Been using both TW phones (S4, Note 3, Note 4, S6E) & pure android phones (N5, N5X) since 2013 & I like Samsung's better. The N5 was faster & smoother than my S4 and N3, but TW caught up since the N4. But Samsung offers much better cameras and offers extra functions. Pure android is also too boring for me, kind of like food that tastes bland and could use more seasoning.
Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk
Touch wiz is not bad. I went from the Galaxy s3 to the nexus 5 and now I'm going to get the s7 edge. I liked TouchWiz on the s3. Now that touch wiz looks a lot better being slimmed down, I'm giving it another shot. Stock Android is starting to get boring. Plus you can put themes on touch wiz.
TouchWiz is only bad if you leave all of the bloat enabled in the background (multi-window, edge-screen, one-handed use, full animations and transitions, flipboard, etc.). I disable all of those things, put the screen mode to basic, disable vibrations and sound for keyboard and soft-keys, enable developer-menu and put everything on 0.5 (animations and transitions), and force gpu acceleration. I also use a build.prop file from Sixperience rom (not much difference, but helps on my note 4 at least). That usually takes care of any perceived lag.
Yes it is, but that's why I also have a Nexus 6P
I never experienced TW until the Note 4 and I never noticed an issue. People just look for things to complain about, particularly fan boys of other brands. I think it must've been terrible way back and there is still residual opinions from others who haven't touched a TW phone since.
Much better than it used to be but Sense is still better imo.
I went from the Nexus 6 to the Note 5 a month ago. Even going back from Marshmallow back to Lollipop and stock to TouchWiz it has not been bad at all. I really can not notice much difference. I have used Package Disabler Pro to turn off a few of the Samsung things that I don't need, which I am sure has helped. It will be interesting to see how much better TouchWiz can run on Marshmallow. I should have my S7 edge in a couple of days and will be able to tell. However I really can not see a huge difference anymore. The last TouchWiz phone I had was the S4 and you could really tell on that.