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Hello Everyone!
Let me start off by reaching out to the XDA Administrative staff. I would like to thank you for keeping this awesome place in operation. Without you, and the XDA community, I'm not sure Android development would be as vibrant. Also, if this thread is in the wrong location, please shift it to where you would like it.
I am an Android user, not a developer, and I feel the future of the Android OS is not headed where I want it to. I'm writing this post to see if anyone has any further thoughts on the matter.
Google is marketing Android as an Open Source OS. You are able to download the source, modify it as you wish, and then build it. If you are running a vanilla build of Android (i.e. Nexus S) you are able to alter your experience as you see fit. The issue I foresee isn't the fragmentation of the Android versions (which is still debated as an issue), but rather the fragmentation of the user experience.
When an end-user purchases a handset from most major carriers, they receive an Android device. Between different handsets, and carriers, the features that are available to a single user can vary exponentially (i.e. the inability to install APK files, bypassing the market, on AT&T devices). This device is still based on Android, but is it still Android?
I have no problem with manufacturers adding their own code to the Android system, as long as the core functionality is kept the same. When you begin to alter the basic functionality of the system, at what point is it no longer Android? Linux Mint is derived from Ubuntu, but it is no longer Ubuntu. The system is a derivative of Ubuntu. If the base of the OS is going to be altered drastically (by manufacturer or by request of carrier) it needs to be known that the device is not Android.
As I am most familiar with HTC Android devices, I will use HTC SenseUI as an example (although, as I think about this more it may not be the best example). The core functionality of the HTC devices is similar, but not entirely the same. Most of the default applications (Browser, Contacts, Dialer) have been altered to what HTC feels is more atheistically pleasing. However, these features are additions. They are not removing functionality from the device.
With my HTC Evo (by default) there are core functionalities removed. Without rooting my device, I am unable to tether via WiFi. Even when rooting, if I want to keep the 4G experience, I need to install a third party application to tether instead of simply using the functionality that was supposed to be built in to Android. Why? Sprint has decided to bake their own hotspot functionality into the core of the OS. Yet to use it, I am required to pay an extra $30 fee on top of my [i/unlimited[/i] data plan. I am not knocking Sprint, here. As long as I have used their service, I’ve had nothing but stellar performance and the price point is perfect.
I feel with this core functionality removed, my Evo is no longer Android. It’s simply Android-based, an Android derived OS. The problem with these manufacturers, and their Android-derived operating system, is the lack-luster experience the consumers get with the product.
I started my Android experience on an HTC CDMA Hero. It took me eight months to get any major software upgrades (The device ran Android 1.5 from factory). Why? Because it was taking so long for manufacturers to bake their Features into the OS. If I was not a techie, I feel this experience would have pushed me away from the Android platform. I fear this fragmentation that is occurring could be the downfall of the Android platform.
I want to be able to buy a device. I want to be running the newest version of Android. If I do not like the ROM that came on the phone, I want to be able to change that. But I do not want to purchase a phone with all of this baked in garbage, or aesthetic features that require me to wait long periods of times for my device to be upgraded to the newest version of Android. And, I hope that I am not the only person to feel this way.
So here is my idea, pending input from the Android community of course: An open letter, with a petition, to all members of the OHA requesting for Android devices to be Android! Unadulterated Android OS from Google (With minor modifications to ensure specific hardware is working properly). Requesting that we are given access to the entire device, that we paid for, without having to exploit the operating system to obtain the ability to modify it as we see fit. If a manufacturer, or carrier, does not wish to comply with this, they will not be able to market the device as being Android. Rather, the device is based on Android.
Honestly, I’m not sure what I am looking to accomplish. Maybe, just so they know we are just as interested in Android as they are. And that we want nothing but for Android to succeed. Or maybe, that we support Android being open source, but not being heavily modified to the point where it’s a bastardized.
What do you think?
Tim, I support you in your belief that carriers, not manufacturers, are taking the wrong turn by messing with the full functionality that people pay a hefty price to OWN!
Do we truly OWN what we paid for, or are paying for? I don't believe so, for example, the SAMSUNG Vibrant t959, aka the Samsung Galaxy S i9000, same phone but the carriers decided to have certain features removed from the phone, not be MADE without these features, the FM radio HW and the FFC. Many people know these features were REMOVED, due to the leftover molding and other " skeletons"! Would anyone want to have a carrier when they know that they don't want there customers to have the FULLEST experience, like it was meant to be?
Sent from my HTC MyDesireHD 4G!
I would also like to share with you that MANUFACTURERS creating these "skins", I'm going to use HTC Sense for my example, is actually NOT a bad thing at all!
HTC Sense has opened a huge amount of rich content and functionality to there users immensely! HTC Hub, HTC Locations for example! All these add ons are very useful to users and does NOT restrict the full functionality but yet BOOSTS its functionality!
Unfortunately though, carriers decide to take these hearty and supreme names and totally rip it apart by taking away functionality, features, and the most...a good user experience! For example, my phone..the HTC MyTouch 4G aka the HTC Glacier. I received it with something called Sense on it, but any owner knows that is NOT Sense! That is not HTC Sense! After burying myself in the bowels of my new phone, I now have a HTC Desire HD Rom on it that will stay on it until I get the new HTC Sense 2.3 update! The full HTC Sense is a good thing and I strongly believe its worth waiting for!
Sent from my HTC Glacier
I agree, but believe Android is a growing mobile OS. If Google did not push their mobile OS (and let manufactures do what they want). Android probably would not have last against the competition. Its all a survival of the fittest situation. Some people are going to make use of their phones others aren't. Too bad bloatware has been the success for some Android phones. Glad someone else noticed this. Thank you for your thread.
The fact that Android is open source will inevitably have benefits and downfalls.
Benefits being that carriers and manufacturers can add cool stuff. Downfalls being that they can remove good or add awful stuff.
However Google can't have double standards. If it's open source, it's open source, for better or for worse.
An advantage of OEMs participating is that more parties are contributing to coding for android. More innovative ideas are potentially contributed.
For techies this is particularly awesome as we can port awesome features that perhaps weren't designed for our phone and disable lame restrictions. By this way we potentially can have all software benefits of more than one company brand etc.
Being an ordinary consumer in this context can suck.
Tim, while I understand your frustration (trust me, I've felt similar over the past few months), I don't fully agree.
The heart of Android is that it is Open. Open Source is a part of the openness that envelops Android, but what is meant by "Android is open" is so much more. OEM's skinning their devices is part of it; carriers stuffing devices full of their crapware is part of it; heck, even manufacturers/carriers limiting devices' use in one form or another is technically part of it. I think that Google's model with Android is that people can use in whatever way they see fit (except, you know, literally stealing it and claiming that they made and own it) and adapting it to be the OS that they want. Android gives people the freedom to do with it what they like.
I think that Google hopes that carriers, OEMs and everyone else will use it for the better and add to the functionality and maybe even contribute to the Open Source project and thus to the greater Android community and the vision thereof. Sadly, it is not always the case and then you get situations where a carrier or an OEM will limit a device in some way for a quick buck (your example of tethering on the EVO being a good one). I think that what AT&T did/does on their Android devices is as a final product a good example of what Android is not intended to be, but their actions are, technically, still in the spirit of Android.
The way I see Android, it is about the freedom to do whatever you like. Android is then also more for the thinking person as there are literally hundreds of devices to choose from and each one has strengths and weaknesses when compared to the rest. You as a user need to consider what it is that you want from your device and then select the device that is the most suited to your needs.
I want to be able to buy a device. I want to be running the newest version of Android. If I do not like the ROM that came on the phone, I want to be able to change that. But I do not want to purchase a phone with all of this baked in garbage, or aesthetic features that require me to wait long periods of times for my device to be upgraded to the newest version of Android. And, I hope that I am not the only person to feel this way.
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You are not the only person that feels that way, I feel the same, which is why I've decided to get myself a Nexus S. It's tricky to get it to this country, but it'll be worth it. I realise that you're on Sprint which means that a Nexus device won't work, correct? A better petition IMO, would be to petition Google to release CDMA versions of their devices.
Sorry to say, but 4G is not derived from android. The phone itself will always support it, harware wise. So, what are you saying? /: Who are you complaining to? ROM chefs for not managing to make the 4G fully functional?
totally agree with you
he is complaining about gimped devices being marketed as android devices. to sum up what i think his messages is; a device should not be called an android device if it is not fully capable of all it's natively supported features, wireless tether, root access etc. but rather should be called android based device.
Good idea but never going to happen. This is driving me away from this platform...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm curious as to what functionality we can get by simply rooting. I'm not seeing the huge deal I may be missing something so I'm asking
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
To me, they should just change the launcher and add their own apps in (NOT replacing) and not touch other stuffs already. If totally not changing the OS makes them look alike. To me, thinking about Windows phone 7 in the future. Imagine seeing so many people holding a phone that has the totally same UI, its like seeing a Sony Ericsson X10 and a HTC Desire totally same except that the casing is different.
Technically, the fact that its open source is supposed to help the majority of OEMs, and in turnfilter down to end users as price cuts/ feature enhancements.
But premium features are premium features. You want some kind of 4g? You wont be getting it from end users at xda - it will come from manufacturers who build the radios and APIs into the device.
Android is a very modular os... if you want something all you have to do is a bit of research and buy the device that fits you best. If you go with one of the other systems you will simply have less choice. That is why android is cool.
aint gonna happen guys, doesnt make good business sense to make a device that does everything, why sell one model when you can sell two!
you can pick up any device out there and say, "wouldnt it be cool if it had VGA out or HD camera or x y z", they wont do it, and the same goes for the OS as well.
Open source has an inherant flaw, and that is its fragmentation, everyone believes it should be going in a direction they would like (including yourself). at the moment its not suffered as much as its desktop cousins probably because of its market place keeping one common aspect through all devices but give it time and you will be right, it will lose its "android" identification
If you want an alternative and a device that keeps its personality then get an Iphone or a new WP7 device at least until they crack that wide open too. Its a bit ironic really that WM may well suck but its very customizable and has been consistant throughout the ages
evo4gnw said:
he is complaining about gimped devices being marketed as android devices. to sum up what i think his messages is; a device should not be called an android device if it is not fully capable of all it's natively supported features, wireless tether, root access etc. but rather should be called android based device.
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But that's just the thing isn't it? Android can probably support ANYTHING. But because of that, you aren't supposed to release hardware that isn't as flexible? That to me.. is just looney.
FYI: This is a venting post, written spur of the moment. Probably rambling from point to point without proofreading or organizing thoughts. Don't even know if it will make sense to anyone.
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues. IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that. The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011. Google should be ashamed for letting these manufacturers get away with running an outdated version on a device that is completely cabable of running the newest iteration. Had an official means of updating to Jellybean been available I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away. For example, there has yet to be a legitimate Spotify (which I use daily), twitter, Facebook tablet app. Even the official apps they do have for "tablets" are weak in the user interface compared to iPad apps.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
You have a very good point on it, I couldn't agree more with it.
But regarding the distribution of Android, I think that if the OS had to be the same on every phone/tablet, there wouldn't have a reason to exist so many different devices, it would be like Apple's iOS and its devices.
What makes the platform interesting is the fact that anyone can use it and alter some elements of it, a thing that you don't have in the strict control that Apple has on iOS.
Sent from my MB525 using xda app-developers app
I agree with you in certain points - as for update procedures in general.
I am still very annoyed by the update politics of the Transformer, since the officially offered upgrades caused so
many troubles for me, as random reboots and freezing ,......
On top of it, skilled people in this forum then manage to get nice kernels and ROMs done which are just
much better in performance and stability compared to stock, that you really do wonder who the heck ASUS is hiring
I found finally a stable combo for me based on ICS but failed so far for JB.
I am at the moment testing different JB EOS and kernel combos but experience still issues.
This can become indeed kind of boring....
Your view comparing the great support of Apple on the other hand I don't share completely. It is basically the same as for their Desktop/Laptops.
It is really so much easier to only support a handfulll of devices than thousands of different combinations. Sure, you have a point that
you benefit when you choose one of their devices. But bluntly I become afraid of the growing power of Apple, since I really embrace choice.
Their are always people who prefer a certain different device because it helps their needs ( look at all the different screen sizes for Android and
then check Apple), me I prefer e.g. HW keyboard for a mobile phone.
But then I prefer as well Linux and the choice to put together your preferred OS over a non-customizable MacOSX ...
BTW: I own as well Apple devices and this is not supposed to become a flame thread, please
At the end of the day its down to us as individuals what we buy.
The reviews are not always impartial but certainly a good starting point, but i find researching any product i buy before hand a must now a days.
Great example was when i had bought my gtab - if i had read about it properly i would have know Samsung are one of the worst for updates.....but then again none of the manufacturers promise any future upgrades - maybe again we are just expecting something that we were never told we were going to get??
Never had an issue with my TF but i agree you should not have to rely on a developers site to get "improved" versions of the software - but if i had an Ipad i would have no doubt jailbroken it to improve my ipad experience aswel, just like ive done in the past with ipod touches etc. Would i get another TF - yes - im looking to get the Infinity as i still feel that the Asus TF fits my needs and is still one of the best supported tablets out there.
So the moral of the story is nothings perfect, the infos out there......we just need to be a little more astute as individuals and put the time into looking at the pros and cons before we buy. We spend the money and make the choice - not Google, Asus or Apple.:good:
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
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That's more or less impossible unless you managed to corrupt the first few EMMC blocks that contain the apx mode code. Which you have to know what you're doing to wipe.
Boot into apx mode, install the naked apx driver, then use Easyflasher to flash back to stock
ultmontra08 said:
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues
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Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
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ultmontra08 said:
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing
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You don't need to update Android unless it's a big jump like going from Honeycomb to Ice Cream Sandwich going to all that trouble to Root, Install a custom Recovery, Install a custom ROM for a minor update like Jelly Bean is silly what could you possibly need from Jelly Bean that Ice Cream Sandwich can't already do I bet the only reason is "It's the latest" and Asus are officially going to release Jelly Bean for the Transformer.
ultmontra08 said:
There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues.
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Unfortunately if you want to use something other then the stock ROM it's a process of trial and error I tried Android Revolution HD ROM for example (popular ROM) and had problems with my Transformer not responding in sleep mode and random reboots I found that Cyanogenmod was stable for my device every device is different so the trial and error process is unavoidable.
ultmontra08 said:
IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that.
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ultmontra08 said:
I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
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Google Android is licensed as an open source operating system so Google doesn't have any power to tell manufactures they can't make their own version of Android to sell with their hardware or when you receive updates that's all the manufacturer.
ultmontra08 said:
since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware.
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Asus have actually been great with Android updates for the Transformer just a bit slow.
ultmontra08 said:
The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011.
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You don't understand that it takes time to develop and test a new operating system on a device the process isn't as simple as you think it is you wouldn't want to suddenly get an update from Asus and then be complaining that it's unstable would you?.
ultmontra08 said:
there has yet to be a legitimate twitter, Facebook tablet app
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If you are using a Tablet the screen is wide enough to be able to acceptably use a web browser for these tasks so you don't really need a specific App developed, it's really only necessary for Mobile due to small screens.
ultmontra08 said:
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
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If you prefer Apple feel free to switch but while having a range of hardware options does have it's down falls it gives you and developers more freedom and choice where as Apple will always have a small limited choice range.
Just get a Windows Phone or Windows 8 tablet. I am too, one of those who are totally sick about Android.
You know, I bought Asus Transformer TF101 right on launch and YOU HAVE NO idea how excited I am. But things started to change after using it for a day, lags, crashes, limited apps.
I've been waiting and waiting for months before ICS came, but a lot of issues are still left unresolved. Asus firmware is very prone to crashes.
I've been flashing ROM after ROM and wasted so many days on this... No way I will ever get an Android again.
LastBattle said:
Just get a Windows Phone ....
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Talk about limited apps...
Eh, the way I look at it, ill have this tablet forever and by the time its so scratched and old I can give it to my kids and I can get the latest and greatest NEXUS having learned my lesson buying non NEXUS.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
im on jb rom from team EOS, this is the only jb rom i use until now. using nova launcher makes it almost perfect buttery smooth (perfect without Widgets on the screen) .
it's easy to find good rom without having to try all of them. just read people's comment. go to last page and see how many complaints user's has.
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
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Have you tried Wheelie?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1676845
Android Revolution HD and be done with it. Why the need for the latest and greatest when you can use what works? I used to be an HTC fanboy, until I got the mytouch 4g slide. I hated that phone so much. I love Sense, but just the phone was.... eh. I'm very happy with my Galaxy S3. I feel like I should have opted for the Nexus, but I'm happy with my purchase.
I still have a G1 sitting on my dresser with a charged battery just in case I feel like rockin it oldschool. I'm an OG Android user. Been using android ever since the release of the G1. I do love vanilla android, but what Samsung did with TouchWiz is just short of amazing. I used to run MIUI on my HTC Vision, I ran it for a few hours on my S3, and had to go back to TouchWiz!!
And what was posted earlier, why are you using apps on a tablet when the browser works perfectly for all those websites? Apps are more of a phone thing, screen sizes sub-5"
The update from Honeycomb to ICS was a huge one and we got it, it was not bug free but good enough to get developers working. JB is not that big update unless you need Google Now.
wow i dont know where to start. i really dont want to turn this into an ios vs android flame war. but youre completly out of your mind. first of all you have to look at it from the carriers, hardware manf, and googles point of veiw.
now hardware manuf. , and carriers have it in their best interest to not release updates for all the previous gen devices from a year or two ago, even if they are capable of running the new versions. this way the new devices look more attractive to current and potential customers.
another thing is that you cant really compare the updates from iphone-iphone3g-iphone3gs-iphone4-iphone4s-iphone5-and probably in a couple months the iphone5s that wont do anything more exciting than the last model did. same thing with the ipads. before you know it you have a drawer full of iphones that look the same and dont really do anything different.
then you have android. approx 800,000 new android devices are activated every day. EVERY EFFIN DAY. now thats insane.
how many devices that didnt originally come with ios can now run ios better than they ran their org stock os? for example there are tons of devices that came stock with windows mobile/symbian/webos etc etc and they can now run many different versions of android.
my htc HD, my htc HD2, my hp touchpad, and those are just the ones ive owned. theres tons of others that were given new life because of android and the dev community.
another thing that doesnt make sense is how you can blame google, and the hardware manufacturers and the carriers for 3rd party apps that they have no involvement in. there are millions of developers making millions of apps for millions of devices. its not googles job to make sure they run perfectly on every device. thats the deveolpers fault if facebook app works better on one device than it does on another.
you see iphone and ipad apps dont really have that problem because all the devices are exactly the same. screen size/resolution doesnt change very much at all, and new features are a bore. "oh yay the new iphone can make face time calls over a cell connection and isnt limited to wifi anymore" so what they should have been able to do that years ago.
its also not googles or the hardware manuf. fault if you knowingly go against their waranty terms and screw up your device. thats the risk you knew was there. and its part of the learning process. things like unlocking bootloaders, building custom roms, modifying hardware, cross compiling drivers and kernels, overclocking, and overall getting he most out of your device, is not for kids.
yes the typical ios fanboy just wants to get his facebook updates and be able to locate the nearest starbucks, or genius bar, just by asking siri.
but the android dev comunity and the devices they work on are doing it right. why should you be told what you can and cant do with your device? why should you pay more for a device that only does less. why should you sleep on the sidewalk for 7 days to be first in line to get the new lame updated iphone that costs double and doesnt do double.
the hp touchpad is a great example of an awesome device that was on sale for 99-150 dollars from hp. it currently runs ICS like a champ, and will be getting JB roms that rock. i also have a tf101 asus that runs JB eos like WHOA! overclocked on both cores, awesome tegra2 chip. expandable memory, AND A NORMAL HEADPHONE PORT AND USB PORT. even a nice little hdmi port. its an old device already and it still blows he doors off any current gen ipad.
then theres the newer mk802 devices and hackberry A10 boards that will do anything a high end smartphone will do for 50 bucks and hooks right up to your tv. LETS see apple tv or roku do that.
bottom line is that you dont understand how this really works, and youre getting frustrated and giving up instead of learning and becoming better and the tech.
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
redrol said:
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
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yeah i just updated with eos jb rom today and its so much faster than the stock asus ics rom. i was really surprise, because its still got a ways to go.
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------
Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
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just to clarify a couple of things. There's no such thing as Android Manufacturers. well i guess with the exception of googles devices that they release is as close as you could come to calling them and android manufacturer, but the rest are not Android manufacturers. and when you think about it the screen sizes are usually pretty consistent even across different hardware manuf. you had 2.8"/3.5"/3.8"/ 4.2's were common for a while. now youre seeing mini tablet/phones in the 4.7-5+ range. but there arent that many sizes to worry about development wise. same with tablets. 7"-8"-9.7"-10.1" etc etc. same with the cpu and gpu arcitecture. you got your arms, your tegras, your mali 400's, etc etc theres an android device for everyone for anything.
i also love how my buddies iphone 5 wont display netflix properly or pandora correctly on the new screen size/dimension. maybe the iphone5s ver. 2.1 will have fixed that. in a couple years.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the general public doesnt care that their phones arent getting the newest rom/kernel versions although alot of them do. android seems to realease new versions as the hardware advances. they grow with the advancing power and abilities of devices. you wouldnt really expect a first generation tmobile g1 to run the latest jellybean version would you? its almost as if the hardware cannot really come out faster than the os to support it. everytime you hear of a new android version theres a whole new generation of way better spec'd devices that shortly follow. sorta opposite of apple, they release devices that are barely on par with devices that were released over 6 months ago or longer. if carriers dont want o update devices in order to entice customers to upgrade then i understand that. theyre in business to make a profit. i really dont see how restricting and limiting android would help in any way at all. thats the great thing about android. its just linux with a few things on top. and that is the nail in the coffin right there. unlimited customization and hackability.
haxin said:
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
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Click to collapse
AMEN!
Can someone point or steer me in the right direction?
I am a IT/hackit type person, and I am searching for the best "do it all" system. I don't mind glitchy/buggy systems so long as I can always boot or flash the system stable if I need/want to.
(Read below, if you want to know why/how I got here)
I am largely clueless about windows 7, 2008r2, 8, 8rt, and all post wince phone varients, but I want to expose myself to it if at all possible. I really want to re.perk my interest in linux/android/windows and anything else I am not up on (Facebook/twitter/cloudXYZ intigration).
I haven't used an iphone/ipad much (I had an early ipod, one of the USB sticks with no screen). Other than almost always smooth interface, and high res display, it hasn't perked my interest much. That may just be all the guppies, itunes, closed mindedness, and general leash to many of them wear. If I ever got one, it would either need to run android (or heck, windows, bsd, anything), or there would need some other compelling reason ( runs android/google play apps, has a 3rd part app store, or I dunno, something).
Anyways, back on topic...
I am seeking hardware that can do all, or most all, of the following:
Run android ICS/JB
Has a somewhat active community
Can operate as a tablet and phone (preferably gsm/3g with native phone support)
Can run whatever flavors of windows are interesting (Windows 8, windows 8 rt, etc)
If needed, I can jump ship to x86, but I don't know how unusable android might be.
I'm willing to virtualize or split hardware if I must. (I.e. voip, vmware, terminal, etc.)
A nice plus would be incredible hardware specs (4 core or >1gb ram), even if price is high.
Right now I have a 2 month old galaxy tab 7.7 (p6800). It died, and is in the process of being fixed/replaced/refunded. It's demise prompted my search for a replacement, which in turn, brought me across some windows 8 articles. All I know about windows 8 is what I read in the past hour or so. I came across some stuff about an ARM capable windows (though limited by secure boot), some dual booting of windows x86 tablets, and I think some ICS/win7phone?, etc. I couldn't figure out where to start reading and/or if I should skip it or split it.
BELOW:
Welcome to my personal short story. In short, I have been very ill, and offline for the past 4 years. Prior to that I haven't gone more than a day or two since 1986 without in some way using a computer. I have always hovered at the bleeding edge, and started my career pushing customized solutions, documentation, and "proof of concept" designs.
Fast forward to 2007, using my IT skills I switched to a more top end systems/workflow design, decision matrix, and proof of concept (often centered around server consolidation, virtualization, and terminal emulation (everything from bsd/linux to dos/windows). I also touched countless applications from legacy to high end multimedia/desktops. Most all of my off time was spent pushing hardware, network(+internet), operating system, and virtulalization/duel booting/cross platform interoperability.
Shortly before 2004, I had a life saving surgery, and was good to go (at my best). Then, in 2007/2008 I suffered several major relapses in health. From then until early this year (2012), I was so sick, I couldn't do much at all. Being an early adopter of the original motorola droid, I did manage to stay in touch. I did some very simplistic modding, but didn't have the brain power to do much. My family got me a droid x and a xoom tablet later on, and I had a couple good spells where I rooted and did lite modding.
Why all this detail? It's my best effort to show my perspective and maybe where I am trying to come at or re-enter the IT/hackery world. I really want to catch up, start having fun again, and get cleared to work again!
Thanks for reading this, any pointers to hardware, ariticals, forums, and/or just some search terms would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
-D0c5i5 (aka. Jon or JonC)
There is nothing
I believe there is an old 2.x version of Android running on x86 meaning you could buy a normal x86 device and install Win 8 and Android
using win RT devices with android isn't possible yet
installing RT on Android devices isn't possible yet
Windows phone was never "hacked" as such so if MS insisted on the same level of security its highly unlikely we will have dual boot ARM devices any time soon.
as for dual boot x86, well, youd better get on to the android folk for that one
dazza9075 said:
There is nothing
I believe there is an old 2.x version of Android running on x86 meaning you could buy a normal x86 device and install Win 8 and Android
using win RT devices with android isn't possible yet
installing RT on Android devices isn't possible yet
Windows phone was never "hacked" as such so if MS insisted on the same level of security its highly unlikely we will have dual boot ARM devices any time soon.
as for dual boot x86, well, youd better get on to the android folk for that one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.android-x86.org/
There's also BlueStacks for emulating Android apps on Windows. I don't believe they have an RT version, though.
JihadSquad said:
http://www.android-x86.org/
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Click to collapse
Known issues
•Suspend and resume doesn't work on some targets.
•Not support Ethernet.
indeed, its been updated to ICS
so we all know HTC is in trouble. The cellphone market is constantly moving forward and looking to the future for their next big thing. I, however, suggest that htc should take a page out of their old book and come out with a next-gen hd2. When I think about freedom in a handset, I think about this phone first and THEN android's early days. We live in a time where mainstream phone manufacturers give us a product and thats that whether we like it or not. my last 4 android phones weren't able to be rooted and so I gave up altogether. I'm currently an iphone user. Not because I think it's better but because I just gave up. I am not happy with todays offerings. I feel like phones should be more advanced now. I mean yeah there are very nice phones today with tiny bezels and crazy specs but I'm speaking more from a OS perspective. Yes pixels are nice, yes samsung has amazing phones but at the end of the day they're only still running android. Android has evolved but, in my eyes, just barely. It's still the same at its core. Back on topic, I think it would be in everybody's best interest if htc were to look back to this phone for the future. This time next year will mark the 10th anniversary of the HD2 and they're in a very troubled state right now so why not? HD3, the all new HTC HD, whatever they may call it is irrelevant as long as they just do it. The smartphone market is stagnant right now, there's countless evidence to support this claim. Manufacturers should start focusing more on operating systems than bezels. It is clearly inevitable that there will eventually be new contestants in the duopoly we have right now.
I'm not sure how to approach this but let's just put it like this. If i had it my way; it's November 2019 and HTC releases the hd3, theres a whole back to the future campaign. they trademark the phrase "the future is in your hands." it's on billboards and ads with the phone sitting comfortably in a pair of palms. there's black hands, white hands, brown hands, robot hands to show that this is the phone for everybody. it runs android by default but it is meant to run other operating systems. HTC has invested money into smaller os manufacturers and home-based devs to develop/port their existing OS. they run competitions and such for people to show off their OS offerings. Not for them to purchase and license but to show that the whole movement is about the people and their freedom phone. the device is a tinkerers dream. The app stores are limited but that isn't the point. We're approaching a time where AI is slowly eliminating the need for 6 billion apps. XDA is the go-to spot again. We need a more capable mobile OS and why shouldn't HTC be one of the first to push that with their hardware. I know microsoft will be putting out the surface phone soon and I'd be willing to bet it will run full windows 10. Why not have a legitimate early competitor to push the agenda? If I want to run ubuntu desktop or kali linux on my phone fluidly why can't I? This may very well be a niche product but it will be huge for developers and will most definitely be a big conversation. That alone would gain some traction. hardware revisions thereafter could include multiple usb-c connectors, maybe an x86 architecture, maybe modularity, maybe this maybe that. I just dream of a pocketable device that would truly feel free of restraints and I believe HTC is the one for the job. Manufacturers are always giving us what THEY think we need instead of actually leaving it up to us. Ask any savvy person what the most legendary smartphone was and they'll say the HD2, ask them why and I guarantee every answer is the same. This is something I am passionate about and I haven't slept yet and I know the format is all messed up but I just wanted to put the idea in peoples heads.
I second this motion. The HTC HD2 Leo I own is a beast. I will admit that it was frustrating at first. I must have soft bricked it half a dozen times messing with settings and software I had no business touching as I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Then I found some good tutorials and finally, the promised land. XDA DEVELOPERS FORUM.
I found that the HD2 was an incredibly versatile and robust piece of tech. I did soft brick it again a time or two, but always I was able to rejuvenate it. The downfall, I believe was Microsoft ending the 6.5 os right after release. That coupled with the power house of android and the backing and resources it had soon overshadowed the HD2. But quite a few kept a place in there heart for it. The capability of the device and the developers to modify and utilize the platform to do extraordinary things has, in my opinion, never been matched. HTC needed a flagship. They were in the pack, but had a desire and opportunity to pull to the forefront. With the HD2 they did surge ahead. They didn't fail us, the market and consumer failed them. Too many got overly frustrated as they failed to understand the accessibility and basic root to pathway to app to accessories. The various models also caused consumers, who were hearing of this wonder of Google and Android, some with the apple iPhone in hand and its "friendly yet restrictive" os, and they rage quit on the HTC.
After reading the above post, I have thought long and hard on what was, what is, and what could be for HD devices. I have several interesting observations.
1. The versatility of the HD2 opened it up to power-users, techs, devs and wide eyed dreamy technophiles like myself. The ability of the HD2 to use Java, WinMo, PPC software, Android and linux gave so many a highly adaptable device for personal preference, personalization and experimentation.
2. The HD2 could act as a PDA, Phone, PC, Diagnostic tool, Microsoft Office companion and controller... The list goes on. Yes you can do all those things with an android or apple device now, but the ability to adjust the hardware settings, application features, information export and format has been greatly handicapped by a gap between developer abilities an end users abilities. Rooting helps with this, but rooting itself is a tricky and iffy prospect. I have noticed that certain areas of focus and purpose for applications have software that does not cover everything desired, or is entirely too broad and basic to be fully accurate. I have found myself and others needing 2 or three applications to accomplish with accuracy what could be done with one openly versatile and layered 'package'.
3. The HTC HD2 is still capable of competing with most of the low to mid level devices on the market today. I can hear some of you rolling your eyes, but I stick by that statement. Even with some outdated components and slower buss and cache speeds, it can hold its own. I attribute that to the versatility.
4. The vision of the HTC HD3 MODULAR COMPONENT ENGINE. Yup. I may be insane after all. Yet my madness has reason, I am just not linguistically skilled enough in Techaneeze to put it to words. Basically, the device by itself is a fully functioning phone with the latest capabilities and trends. The average user will be able to use it straight out the box, though with multiple new options such as dual OS preinstalled, dual SD card slots, Mega More than anyone needs camera resolutions, speakers that actually work loud and clear, maybe predocked gizmos, chochkies and dodads like Bluetooth earpiece(beats me on the design so far), NFC tags or keyring fobs(whatever those are called), a hidden micro sim/sd card compartment, an actual headphone jack, plasma lighter/taser, multi use survival card, toothpick, tweezers, det-cord crimper. OK OK i am being silly, but its late and I am hungry.
The added wow factor is that the HD3 is a driver/interface for a modular expansion platform that can be customized for various trades. IT tools like frequency counter, component tester, etc.; scientific lab tools and sensors; in the field career specific tools for geologist, meteorologist, anthropologists, etc.
So far, i just have envisioned a framework buss with plug in ports for specific electronics and sensors, etc.
I will try to expand on this idea, but I am now at the point that I believe I need to poll the public. I will attempt to create an effective poll(s) at a later time when I have all cylinders firing.
Good night, and good luck!
I just stumbled on to this forum browsing xda in the new year..and as each year passes i feel sad that these HD2 forums get more and more silent ( I bot the HD2 in 2009, the year of its launch) ...strange this phone got so many people to love their device like no other, I guess people remember the joy they felt when they used it and the fact that it was probably the most modded phone on the planet....fact that it ran android marshmallow not too far back is testament to the loyalty of developers and users of this phone who never gave up on it, kept it alive and relevant .... I guess we all miss the extreme flexibility of our beloved device today, of course also miss the huge flutter of activity on the xda forums for this phone, the forums were always buzzing with something new ( ROM, app ) the phone could run or some feature that was finally made to work...so so great to see the above 2 posts in 2018, good to see activity and that people still remember this great device and are still hoping it will be reborn in some form in the future, cheers to that!!!!
Same sentiments here. I bought the hd2 on release in 2009 and it was a lovely device. I remember installing the latest Android ROMs and kernels on it, was so fun. We're at a point if perfection though, most modern devices run at well you hardly need to tinker with them anymore. My Galaxy note 9 and Huawei mate 20 pro are proof to that, these 2 phones are Android in it's perfection but the hd2 will always have a place in our hearts!
I am still amazed to see what the HD2 achieved.. I also bought it in 2009.. had loads of fun flashing it (or may i say them, i ended up having 4 of them at the same time ) whith android and windows.. I still have 2 or 3 of them laying around somewhere.. was an incredible device that gave loads of fun
Maybe I'm the only one, but I am a long-time fan of the now-dead WebOS, (formerly PalmOS). Back in 2011-2013, I probably had 6 or 7 different WebOS phones, and found the hardware and the software to be superior in user experience than any others. The problem was that that was the big explosion era for Android and IOS, so WebOS got pretty overshadowed, and HP, (the new owners at the time), decided to axe any further development, and ended up selling the OS to LG, who has developed it further for TVs and stuff, (I don't have all of the technical details straight, but that's a superficial summary). Anyway, recently, out of nostalgia, I pulled out an old Veer, and bought a new Pre 2, and went back into the WebOS forums realm to get a fix of my old favorite, and I was pleasantly surprised to see the work of the community to keep WebOS alive. There is an archive of hundreds of app files available on ftp, (all abandonware available for free - even the paid apps from HP catalog), ongoing development of apps and patches to keep WebOS working with all of the changes in technology, (including updates to Preware - the unofficial dev app catalog, started way back then), and LuneOS, an open developers version of WebOS, which can be built for modern phones, and which was just updated - https://pivotce.com
I think the XC is a perfect candidate for LuneOS, being small, currently affordable, (one upside to the short lifespan of official support), and having pretty good specs. Plus, there's already plenty of foundational development needed for supporting porting, (Lineage, AOSP, and even a partly-working Halium - https://github.com/Halium/projectmanagement/issues/103). For anyone familiar with building/porting, the work needed to be done to build LuneOS for XC is minimal.
My problem(s): I am not familiar with building/porting. I am happy to test and learn, but I also currently don't have any regular access to a Linux computer, and even if I did, it would take me a looonng time to figure out from scratch what someone else could probably do in no time, since all of the elements are in place, (I checked with WebOS devs, and they said with what's available, building for XC is '... mostly a matter of configuration').
So, anybody out there with an XC want to do a build for us?
@harryharryharry @oshmoun ...?
Sorry, I'm not even remotely close to having the capabilities to pull a stunt like this, I think I'm currently in the same boat as you (minus the linux part)
Having said that, here's hoping someone more knowledgeable jumps in and picks up this interesting project. I'm willing and able to test and provide feedback as well of course.