Windows 8 will move to UEFI replacing the ageing BIOS, other modern OS's uses UEFI including the ARM version of the OS.
Is it possible to develop UEFI boot loader for the XOOM , it would be very cool if this is possible.
In fact I am waiting for the first Win8 ARM to leak .. and it will be very cool to test it in a real tablet
Thanks for the tidbit, there was nothing about UEFI in the mainstream blogs, but Goog search dug it up.
http://www.computeractive.co.uk/ca/news/2075486/windows-dont-choose-tablet-desktop
As a geek, I'm more interested in the plumbings than the GUI stuff. One item of interest to me is whether Win8 will be available in discrete form, ie as a standalone retail version that can be installed on any compatible device, or only in device-bound form (ie OEM version). Its value would be greatly enhanced if it's in a standalone, installable version.
That's what I don't like about Android at present. It's actually less "portable" than Windows, since every device needs to have its own "ROM," which means you're dependent on the vendor's whims (or friendly hackers) for updates. It's rather byzantine, a lot like the CP/M ills of old, where each manufacturer had its own proprietary version.
With respect to the introduced Win8 GUI, I noted that the integration of the tile-based Metro UI into the traditional mouse/KB UI isn't very elegant, aesthetically speaking. To be fair, it's not an easy task, and MS didn't have the luxury of time. WP7's Metro + Win7 UI was the obvious route, and unsurprisingly that's the route they took. I'm interested in how the touch UI translate to the mouse/KB interface, and vice versa.
BTW, I think the x86 version of Win8 will get the most attention, since backward compatibility with existing Win/Lin apps is intact. Unless Oak Trail turns out to be a real dog, Intel will have its moment in the sun.
e.mote said:
That's what I don't like about Android at present. It's actually less "portable" than Windows, since every device needs to have its own "ROM," which means you're dependent on the vendor's whims (or friendly hackers) for updates.
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Click to collapse
Lolwut?
Windows has exactly the same problem if you want to run it on different hardware, it's just hidden to the end user because Micosoft bundles everything into an inocuous looking package.
Windows also has the luxury of running on very narrowly scope/defined hardware that they have had deep influence in designing.
>Windows has exactly the same problem if you want to run it on different hardware
Hardware for Windows have their own abstraction layer in the form of a BIOS/UEFI. Windows binaries are universal across devices. Hardware is generally interfaced through user-installable drivers.
These don't (yet) exist for Android, where each device has its own specifically-compiled binaries. Since vendors have their tweaks to the source code, no two droid devices are the same. It's a nightmare for both users and devs. Hence the fragmentation outcry.
Take this forum as a microcosm. HC 3.1 is out, but users can't upgrade to it until the vendors get around to updating their vendor-specific (and region-specific) firmware. Contrast this to a Win service pack.
Windows sucks in many ways, but the one factor in its dominance is that if you buy a Win app, you can be reasonably certain that it will run on most any PC. If you buy a peripheral, you can be reasonably certain that it can be installed on most any PC.
It's a bit unfair since Android is still in its diapers. Hey, it just got USB host in 3.1. Then again, ain't no such thing as "fair" competition. Android will have to grow up in a hurry.
Pundits like to harp on the iOS-vs-Android angle. The reality is that Apple will always be a niche player because of its closed-ecosys philosophy. No single company, no matter how great, can create enough choice for the majority of user wants. The real fight will be between Android and Windows.
Personally, I'm cheering on Linux, which can coattail Windows' standardization onto the new tablet platform. Lin never had a real chance of uprooting Win on the desktop, or as we've seen, even on netbooks. Win was too entrenched. Tabs will be a fresh new opportunity for Linux, and we'll see if Ubuntu & Co can take advantage.
Hey i have a question like when is the win 8 arm gonna come im tired of waiting already or is it possible to run any other microsoft os on acer iconia tab a500, or can you run win xp with qemu or something like that please help me really need it. thanks for all
aivashc said:
Hey i have a question like when is the win 8 arm gonna come im tired of waiting already or is it possible to run any other microsoft os on acer iconia tab a500, or can you run win xp with qemu or something like that please help me really need it. thanks for all
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Click to collapse
Nobody really knows when or.. now IF it will come.
Microsoft seems to be hitting issues with and there is not much news in this lately. Somewhere i read is to not expect it until mid 2013 if ever..
NO as far as running any windows os on the iconia. What ever qemu is. if thats a emulator i never seen one to work correctly..so its unlikely and if so would be very slow and buggy..
Sell your A 500.. GET A W500.. i have considered trying to trade mine..
ANYONE INTERESTED .
You can use an app like Splashtop to mirror what your home PC is doing. It will look like it's running Windows...
You can use some Win 8 wallpaper and replicate a Metro look
You can even change the Force Close message to "This program has ended unexpectedly...." AKA Exception Error, AKA General Protection Fault.
ive had this conversation so many times its not even funny.
Mainly, forget about it.
Chances are virtually nonexistant you'll be able to buy windows 8 ARM. Even if there was a way to legally port it, which there isn't, it'd still require a whole new set of drivers (which would be incredibly hard to create) and a proprietary, closed source pre-boot environmentwhich would need to bbe illegally modified to make the os run.
Its pretty much impossible without Microsoft helping, which you know they won't do.
And I also feel it nessarry to point out that you won't be able to run windows x86 programs on windows 8 arm, making it a largely useless platform - you only have access to metro apps, and/or windows phone 7 apps. Stay with android, you'll thank me later.
Android rom on windows hardware . CAN I PLEASE..
Can i install the update .zip .. rom from my tablet to my Windows 7 AMD FUSION Cpu notebook..
can i can i can iiiii can i please....
Windows 8 requirements to battle fragmentation:
http://uk.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleWeb3.aspx?regionid=4&articleid=1911699
Tegra 2 can run Windows 8 !
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/01/tegra-2-cameos-at-ballmer-ces-keynote-with-windows-on-arm-demo/
@akram_1 - Your 2nd link refers to the Jan 2011, presentation at CES where MS talked about running Win 8 on a Tegra 2 Tablet but it got no further and as Erica Renee said in post above yours, the whole idea of that setup bit the dust during 2011 when MS decided to quietly back away from the idea.
In Jan 2012 again at CES, MS Windows Chief Marketing Officer demonstrated Win 8 on ARM but this was on a special one off unit using the Tegra 3 chip and Metro.
So please don't hold your breath waiting for Win 8 on ARM running on the A500 otherwise you'll end up in the Guiness Book of Records as the "A500 owner with the bluest face and least detectable pulse rate".
Windows 8 on ARM? Absolutely
Windows 8 on the A500? Highly unlikely
Apparently there will be Windows 8 tablets coming out by the holiday shopping season. If any device will be able to natively run either Android or Windows (or even both in a dual-boot environment), it would most likely be on a device designed and marketed for Windows. In fact, now that I think about it, Android 5 (Jellybean?) will be expected around the same time. Seeing how Android has matured over the last few years, I expect this next version to blow us away. With any hopeful wishing, some tablet manufacturers may release the same hardware built to run both Windows and Android and sell them side-by-side. For example, a hypothetical Acer A900 and W900 would be exactly the same hardware, only difference being the OS, in which case they might just name such a tablet the T900A and T900W. Of course, this is just speculation. Also, I'm expecting a lot of these next-gen tablets to copy the design of the Transformer and Transformer Prime. These tablets will ship with a dock, and the UI will change according to how it's being used. In tablet mode, it will be in the Metro UI, then switch to a more familiar Windows UI when docked. If the hardware is being used interchangeably between Windows and Android, maybe Jellybean will feature different UI's based on which mode is being used. Take Cornerstone for example. Speculation once again, but this is what I'd like to see.
But yeah, as far as Windows on the A500... keep dreaming
Better luch if MS makes a tablet with a arm processor and some no decides to port it. Then you would have wp7 or whatever version they call it. I think right now that is the best you could hope for.
I agree with the above for the most part. I do belive Microsoft under estimated the efforts they would need to put into getting windows to run On arm.When and well If They do get a releasable product
(1) It will surely have one of the 3 fallowing problems . It will maybe run windows LIKE!!! programs And suck battery life.(BAD BAD AND A FAIL)
(2) It will Run windows Program like But be so Huge because of the extra batteries it will be to heavy to be useable.(Like the Current win 7 tabs.To big or no battery life.) This to would BE A BIG FAT FAIL.
(3) It will be a extension of the win phone operating system. The one that people complain about and toss and run back to android. Closed SOURCE very little development for it. Few but expensive apps.. WELL NOTHING MORE TO SAY BUT..
THIS TO IS A Near FAIL . They are huge and bulky or die Quickly..
I have 3 friends that have them. and pack charger and spair battery with them all the time..
The above are what i have been reading all over the web in one form or another..I also think there is something going on in the background behind peoples back.. I THINK LOCKING Devices to the installed OS will eventually be a non flash-able rom chip. with a secondary rom to incorporate updates and fixes to the first.. This would make devices obsolete much Quicker. Its becoming harder and harder for developers to break the boot loaders on these devices.
THE BOOT LOADER and its magic .. i feel is the reason acer has not release ICS. AND I BELIEVE THEY WILL NOT UNTIL THE FIX THIS
Just my Opinion. from what i have read over the last few months . There should be a international Protest NOt TO ACER OR ASUS or samsung .. BUT TO THE WORLD MANUFACTURERS. To get a law to disallow them to lock down NON CONTRACT DEVICES....
Yo, so I installed the windows phone 8 SDK today, only to figure out that most computers in this world will not run this SDK's emulator.
You will need in an i3 or better CPU from intel or equivalent from AMD (aka latest generation) to run the emulator.
You also have to run this emulator on windows 8 x64 (yep, it HAS to be x64, otherwise it won't work). This, by itself, asks for at least 4 GB of RAM to run the system at a decent speed, also forces you to upgrade to windows 8 (i got it for free due to msdn) and to get Visual Studio 12.
This is, in my opinion, a terrible move from microsoft.
Not everybody has CPUs that have all the requirements. In fact, not even all the newest CPUs have this requirement (Second Level Address Translation it is called). This, automatically, makes developers like me either:
get a new PC
Get a windows phone 8 device.
Luckily for me i have a fairly new laptop, which has an i3 CPU capable to run this stupid emulator.
On top of that, there comes the non-backward compatibility from wp8 to wp7.5 apps. Applications compiled for windows phone 8 SDK will not work on Windows phone 7.5, unless you make another project for 7.5, compile it as dll and reference it from your 8 app. This is kinda overkill.
Windows phone 8 will probably bring in a lot of users, but for developers, it is a blow to the head. I bet windows phone 8 submissions will be very, very low in the next 1 to 2 years.
So, is microsoft risking a bit too much with the switch from 7.5 to 8? On top of all the development slaughter, there's the non-upgradable old devices...
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
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vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore and I guess most of them know that. Just look at the front page, not even a single article/news about the Windows (Phone) 8 launch events. It's just android. Even the forum sections for the HTC 8X/S and Samsung ATIV S are missing whereas all the new Google devices have been added shortly after their announcement. So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
morpheuszg said:
Well, to be honest, I think XDA isn't a good place for MS/WP anymore ....So you see, even XDAdev isn't really well after Windows Phone at all.
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so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
Are there any lol? I saw about 6 new apps, and one of them (Pandora) won't be out until sometime in 2013!
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
vetvito said:
Good question , but it's been shockingly quiet in here. One would think that after a new launch the forum would be jumping with activity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
All in all WP8 announcement was not that good...
also, they didn't release the SDK for us devs in order to build nice apps ready to be distributed for new win8 devices...Making us wait for months like if winphone had killer features hidden..and then it was the same old stuff so... i'm also considering to jump the android ship...
StevieBallz said:
MSDN forums for example or prior to launch those who were part of the developer preview program had a closed discussion forum on Microsoft Connect, die to the NDA it was not allowed to discuss the information publicly.
On the CPU requirements - yes it sucks and there are other issues with the Emulator like missing 3d acceleration die to the fact it uses HyperV which does not have that capability. Still I would not suggest for people to develop for any platform without being able to test on a real device. This will be possible even without the Emulator.
I disagree with your assumption that we won't see Apps for WP8. Devs who write software for Windows 8 also need a Windows 8 installation, so people who think of porting those Apps will most likely have the infrastructure in place already. For higher profile the costs of a development machine would not be that problematic and C++ as well as middleware support for many gaming engines will make for a lot easier porting of existing Games from other platforms.
The people for which these changes really suck are student developers lile you and me. Only my Windows tablet currently supports the Emulator (Core i5). But still it is a lot nicer then the situation with the Android Emulator in my experience. The later is running to slow for anything iseful on my Core 2 Quad Desktop so I have to use the device for debugging anyway. Additionally only the WP Emulators have Multi-Touch support so I can test those features without deploying to the device.
Concerning XDAs, it has always been more about hacking and tinkering on the system level then user software development. Given that Android due to it's Open Source nature allows for a lot more in that regard it takes no wonder that there is a lot more going on with those than witj WP. Also market share and number of devoces makes for a difference as well.
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ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
ohgood said:
ya, I saw that w8 64bit was required to develope at all, and thought wow, why would you limit developers to a brand new unproven ecosystem?
the prehighschool kids are going to be the ones with real innovation, new thinking, and the next Facebook, (I hate fb, but you get the idea) without them, what do you have? Office? really , just Office?
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Click to collapse
64 bit is likely to not be the big issue here. I haven't seen to many 32 bit Windows 7 machines. The more problematic move is to lock out everyone who is not using Windows 8. Given that students have access to Windows 8, Visual Studio and the Marketplace for free through Dreamspark that does not sound as that big an issue to me.
In the end it seems they had a reason to go with Hyper-V and Windows-8 simply is the only Desktop operating system which has Hyper-V functionality. The biggest problem is that hardware that is older then 2 years does not support the needed virtualization modes.
How the ecosystem argument plays into this I don't really understand but I guess you meant: new OS that has not that big an installed base yet. Well 4 million upgrades over the last 4 days, not counting the people who bought it with new Hardware or downloaded it from MSDN or Dreamspark it seems to go big rather quickly.
The emulator is a crucial part of application development.
I don't think you want to bring in your early app in alpha stages or even earlier than that on your phone, simply because:
a) you don't have it.
b) Your code might cause damage to the phone, especially on things that use hardware components like vibrators, camera, leds and stuff like that. An unleaded exception can wreck havoc on your phone.
c) The emulator is faster.
Yes, you will eventually need a windows phone 8 device before you publish it, but you should be able to develop your apps before you even have one...
The windows 8 issue is not big. The upgrade from win7 costs like 50 bucks. It is really not that much of an effort.
The insane hardware requirements are, however, and most PCs will not have them. From intel's side, only i3, i5 and i7 processors have what they need, and Pentium dual core for sandy bridge won't...
This is the biggest issue here.
ohgood said:
so, what forums do wp dev's hang out ?
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i'm just a noob, but i think when the devs don't hang out here they hang out nowhere or compared to android extremely rare so that it makes no sense to spend time on...
I wish WP8 RT a good future with Dualboot Android.
Hello everyone. I'm writing this review of the 1520 that I got Monday. I've be a android user for the last 3 years, my last android phone I had before switching to the Lumia 1520 was Galaxy Note 2.
Lets talk about my pass history of the Galaxy Note 2. I had the Note 2 for over a year. I me say that I loved it. That phone was everything i wanted in a phone. There was no limits with that phone. However, there that phone did have it own set of problems. Lets talk about the positives, The first big plus was android market. To this day right now, the android market is best, for it flexibility in apps. No other market is better in my opinion. Second, being able to custom note 2 was one the biggest reasons I loved my phone. With infinite amount of options, there was no limit on customizations. Lastly, the big screen. The most unique feature that separated itself from the rest of the other phones. Having a big screen help watching movies, reading docs and etc. As for the cons the two that sticks out for me were OS consist crashes almost daily after 3 months of use. Secondly, not effective in operating day to day use.
As for the Lumia 1520, let me say compared to my note 2 the quality of the device feel sweet. The phone runs fast, I mean really fast compared to my note 2 when i first used it. Granted Note 2 is older tech so I can't fairly use that as a plus.
Getting do the nitty-gritty, the effectiveness of 1520 windows 8 mobile os is much better than before. Microsoft did a nice job making this os user friendly. I find it easy to access the apps I want to use with Es. One of the cons of this OS is that its not really customize it, since it not really hackable yet. Also, windows app store is really lacking. I think for two reason, one windows mobile is new and third parties are not ready to commit to it yet. Lastly, programming apps for wp8 must be a pain in the a$$.
As for stuff like the camera, audio, etc, it all pretty much standard. Nokia camera this is cool, This phone does have SD slot, I don't like the internal storage is small, for such a nice phone.
Overall the phone is apair with note 3 and others. Microsoft has step up their game, but i do have to knock them on not supporting a more open OS so people can create better functionality with their products. That being said, I still think this phone is top notch and will get people buzzing.
A few points I want to address:
1) You claim "Windows Mobile is new". That is wrong for a number of reasons. The simplest one is because Windows Mobile is actually one of the oldest Smartphone operating systems, having been around since well before iOS, Android, Maemo/MeeGo/Jolla/whatever, or (most pertinently) Windows Phone.
Lumia phones do not run Windows Mobile. They run Windows Phone (in the case of the 1520, Windows Phone 8). These are not the same thing. People on XDA have been hacking WinMo for many, many years (again, since before most "modern" smartphone operating systems existed). Oh, and there's no such thing as "Windows 8 Mobile" (or "Windows 8 Phone" for that matter); there's the "Windows" line (which includes Windows NT, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Win7, Win8, etc.) and the Windows Phone line (which includes WP7 and WP8) plus a handful of others that don't fall cleanly into either of those camps. Do not confuse these things, please!
2) Developing apps for WP is ridiculously easy. By almost any standard, Microsoft has better dev tools than any of the other mainline smartphone OSes. The "requirement" of Win8 for the WP8 SDK is annoying, but WP8 can still run WP7 apps, and the WP7 SDK runs fine on Win7. Besides, it's not hard to install (most of) the WP8 SDK on Win7. Anyhow, the problem is not a matter of difficulty writing apps. It's a matter of whether there's any return on investment. Android has a huge, ridiculous number of users, and while piracy of Android apps is more common than it should be, there's still a huge market. iOS has less market share than Android but is still firmly in second place, and iOS has a lot less piracy and people are a lot more willing to pay for apps, generally speaking, than on Android. WP is way down in third place - barely above fourth, and far below iOS in second - and while it has very little piracy, it barely matters when there are so few users. Complaining abou the lack of software for WP8 is like complaining about the lack of software for Mac OS X; when you're around (or below) 10% of the market, you're a bit player who may be net *loss* to develop for when developers can focus on more profitable platforms instead.
Nice review Vallista, I got my red 1520 last friday and love it, I've had the Dell Streak 5 for 2 1/2years and love that phone to.I was wondering if I wanted to have windows since I really like android, but thought I would try something different since I also recently got the note 8, so I've got a great android device, which I can also make phone and video calls with.I like the effort windows has made and think they will continue making their store better, I'm still trying out different apps,and customizing it like I like it, overall I love the phone and the style of it, my brother just got a red one in the mail yesterday! I made a skype call to my mom's iphone 4 and it works great!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
GoodDayToDie said:
A few points I want to address:
1) You claim "Windows Mobile is new". That is wrong for a number of reasons. The simplest one is because Windows Mobile is actually one of the oldest Smartphone operating systems, having been around since well before iOS, Android, Maemo/MeeGo/Jolla/whatever, or (most pertinently) Windows Phone.
Lumia phones do not run Windows Mobile. They run Windows Phone (in the case of the 1520, Windows Phone 8). These are not the same thing. People on XDA have been hacking WinMo for many, many years (again, since before most "modern" smartphone operating systems existed). Oh, and there's no such thing as "Windows 8 Mobile" (or "Windows 8 Phone" for that matter); there's the "Windows" line (which includes Windows NT, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Win7, Win8, etc.) and the Windows Phone line (which includes WP7 and WP8) plus a handful of others that don't fall cleanly into either of those camps. Do not confuse these things, please!
2) Developing apps for WP is ridiculously easy. By almost any standard, Microsoft has better dev tools than any of the other mainline smartphone OSes. The "requirement" of Win8 for the WP8 SDK is annoying, but WP8 can still run WP7 apps, and the WP7 SDK runs fine on Win7. Besides, it's not hard to install (most of) the WP8 SDK on Win7. Anyhow, the problem is not a matter of difficulty writing apps. It's a matter of whether there's any return on investment. Android has a huge, ridiculous number of users, and while piracy of Android apps is more common than it should be, there's still a huge market. iOS has less market share than Android but is still firmly in second place, and iOS has a lot less piracy and people are a lot more willing to pay for apps, generally speaking, than on Android. WP is way down in third place - barely above fourth, and far below iOS in second - and while it has very little piracy, it barely matters when there are so few users. Complaining abou the lack of software for WP8 is like complaining about the lack of software for Mac OS X; when you're around (or below) 10% of the market, you're a bit player who may be net *loss* to develop for when developers can focus on more profitable platforms instead.
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Click to collapse
let me address this, WP8 or whatever proper name you want to call it is still Windows 8 mobile. I don't want to get into a fight over the proper names. Should I be calling android by it proper name? KitKat? Icecream? Jellybean? and etc? As far I and most common users are concern its windows. Why? Mainly because people are starting to be aware of windows now as a real os option for phones. You couldn't say that 5 years ago.
Secondly, You really think its that easy? Then why aren't all of these apps that are so easy to get in iOS and android not on windows? For and example, I have three banks I use. Out of the three, one has mobile app for windows. These are all major banks. You can say all you want "it because of this or that" at the end of the day windows is lagging behind. Microsoft needs to do a better job of promoting their os. That all I was trying to say. In fact, in my class this morning, my professor ask us "How many people had apple or android" as a phone device. Over 80% had apple and 20% android. It didn't cross his mind to ask if people were using some outside of those two. My point here is now that Microsoft owns nokia, The market will view them as new competitor in the phone market. They might have had this os for long time, but as of now, common users will view them as new. Me walking around with my phone today, people asked me who makes that. Once I told them, they were surprised.
GoodDayToDie said:
A few points I want to address:
1) You claim "Windows Mobile is new". That is wrong for a number of reasons. The simplest one is because Windows Mobile is actually one of the oldest Smartphone operating systems, having been around since well before iOS, Android, Maemo/MeeGo/Jolla/whatever, or (most pertinently) Windows Phone.
Lumia phones do not run Windows Mobile. They run Windows Phone (in the case of the 1520, Windows Phone 8). These are not the same thing. People on XDA have been hacking WinMo for many, many years (again, since before most "modern" smartphone operating systems existed). Oh, and there's no such thing as "Windows 8 Mobile" (or "Windows 8 Phone" for that matter); there's the "Windows" line (which includes Windows NT, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Win7, Win8, etc.) and the Windows Phone line (which includes WP7 and WP8) plus a handful of others that don't fall cleanly into either of those camps. Do not confuse these things, please!
2) Developing apps for WP is ridiculously easy. By almost any standard, Microsoft has better dev tools than any of the other mainline smartphone OSes. The "requirement" of Win8 for the WP8 SDK is annoying, but WP8 can still run WP7 apps, and the WP7 SDK runs fine on Win7. Besides, it's not hard to install (most of) the WP8 SDK on Win7. Anyhow, the problem is not a matter of difficulty writing apps. It's a matter of whether there's any return on investment. Android has a huge, ridiculous number of users, and while piracy of Android apps is more common than it should be, there's still a huge market. iOS has less market share than Android but is still firmly in second place, and iOS has a lot less piracy and people are a lot more willing to pay for apps, generally speaking, than on Android. WP is way down in third place - barely above fourth, and far below iOS in second - and while it has very little piracy, it barely matters when there are so few users. Complaining abou the lack of software for WP8 is like complaining about the lack of software for Mac OS X; when you're around (or below) 10% of the market, you're a bit player who may be net *loss* to develop for when developers can focus on more profitable platforms instead.
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Click to collapse
Trail70rider said:
Nice review Vallista, I got my red 1520 last friday and love it, I've had the Dell Streak 5 for 2 1/2years and love that phone to.I was wondering if I wanted to have windows since I really like android, but thought I would try something different since I also recently got the note 8, so I've got a great android device, which I can also make phone and video calls with.I like the effort windows has made and think they will continue making their store better, I'm still trying out different apps,and customizing it like I like it, overall I love the phone and the style of it, my brother just got a red one in the mail yesterday! I made a skype call to my mom's iphone 4 and it works great!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
This phone is soo sick.
Vallista said:
let me address this, WP8 or whatever proper name you want to call it is still Windows 8 mobile. I don't want to get into a fight over the proper names.
Why aren't all of these apps that are so easy to get in iOS and android not on windows? In fact, in my class this morning, my professor ask us "How many people had apple or android" as a phone device. Over 80% had apple and 20% android. It didn't cross his mind to ask if people were using some outside of those two. My point here is now that Microsoft owns nokia, The market will view them as new competitor in the phone market.
They might have had this os for long time, but as of now, common users will view them as new. Me walking around with my phone today, people asked me who makes that. Once I told them, they were surprised.
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It does matter. Its like calling android something else before it was android. Like GoogleOS, instead of Android. Windows Phone is completely different from Windows Mobile. Windows Phone 7 and 8 is like comparing XP to 7 or 8. Windows XP and Windows Mobile 4-6.5 is extremely easy to modify compared to Windows Phone 7 or its desktop counterpart. Windows Phone 7 was their 'aha! Scrap everything and start over!' moment. WP8 is essentially their solution to fix what was wrong with WP7 and make it easier to manufacture e.g. GDR2 (support more ram) and GDR3 (supports full 1080p).
Windows Phone apps do take longer to publish when coming over from another platform. Most of the gamers who use WP know, because a game will essentially launch on all devices and then launch on Windows Phone MONTHS later sometime a whole year afterwards. SEGA is one those companies that are terrible about this. But this is understandable because of how "effectively" just about all apps run on WP7 or 8. They don't murder your ram or kill your battery. All background stuff is scheduled to run instead of being an evil TSR just taking more up as it runs longer and longer.
If you re writing a WP app from scratch and not porting it, you can "design" one in a matter of time. Heck, all of my apps I didn't even code. I generated them and semi-published them in a matter of an hours of work.
Sure its just a bunch of URLs, but it gets the job done. I intend on tweaking it again soon anyways.
I don't ever get asked about windows phones, except when a friend mine borrowed it for taking a picture in a dark environment e.g fancy winery dinner. Most of the place was candle lit and everything looked great for a smartphone, good for a camera.
Anyways Motorola is to Google as Nokia is to Microsoft. They were just following suit...
Sent from my Lumia 928 using Tapatalk
"Windows 8 mobile" is a remarkably (pardon my bluntness) stupid term for this OS. "Windows Phone 8" is very nearly as stupid (and that one is Microsoft's fault), but it does at least have two advantages: it distinguishes the Windows line from the Windows Phone line, and it's official. Besides, if you actually wanted to call something "Windows 8 mobile", it would make at least a *little* bit of sense to apply that term to Windows RT, which is a "mobile" (tablet, specifically) OS that actually looks like, and runs a lot of the same software as, Windows 8.
Suggesting that Windows Phone "is still Windows" is ridiculous, patently absurd on the face of it. They don't have the same UI (even ignoring the desktop, "Metro" apps in Win8 look and are interacted with differently from those on the phone, and the Start screens look and are arranged and interacted with differently). They don't run the same software (even where processor architecture isn't an issue, such as with pure .NET apps), although at some point in the future they may be merged to do so. They don't use the same user model (Windows Phone is a single-user system with only an "unlock the screen" protection; Windows - 8 or any other version of the NT desktop line - is a multi-user operating system where users must log into their accounts to use the system). They don't communicate with other computers the same way (Windows supports "Windows networking", including Homegroups, over SMB; Windows Phone has no SMB support but can act as an MTP client device over USB). They don't use the same security model (there's no support for user-accessible "full-trust" apps on Windows Phone; everything must run in an app sandbox). They don't run on the same hardware... do I really need to go on?
There are really only two meaningful similarities between Windows and Windows Phone (no, Microsoft's bone-headed branding does not meet the bar of "meaningful"). First, they both use the Win32 and WinRT APIs (well, sort of; the phone tries to block access to most of Win32 and is missing some of WinRT that the desktop has, the desktop is missing some of the stuff that the phone has too, though). Second, they both use the NT kernel. That's it. The way they sandbox apps is kind of the same, but only kind of (they don't even use the same capability lists, which incidentally is going to make that hypothetical merging of the app ecosystems kind of tricky). The UI has about in much in common between Windows Phone and Windows as Windows (7 or 8, at least) have in common with OS X.
Android's proper name is "Android" (OK, you can append a version number, or version name, if you want). It runs on the Linux kernel, just like MeeGo, WebOS, Ubuntu, and RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux). Turns out that using the kernel as a determiner of "these operating systems are the same" is a really bad idea. Besides, if you were going to do *that*, then you'd have to argue that Windows Phone is one of the oldest smartphone operating systems, since WP7 runs on the CE kernel whose earlier versions powered handheld "smart" devices clear back to 1996.
As for the apps thing... how many WP apps have you written? Do you actually have the least idea how hard or easy it is? I've been writing WP apps for three years now, and I've also written Android apps and reviewed iOS apps. Neither one has as good of tools, and both require more work on the part of the developer to make the app *work*.
Vallista said:
You can say all you want "it because of this or that" at the end of the day windows is lagging behind.
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I *told* you the reason! It wasn't a "it's because this or that" in the least. Apparently, though, you are wither too wrapped up in your own prejudices to face facts, or you're illiterate... In any case, MS is spending a ton of money trying to promote WP. I happen to think their marketing sucks, but c'est la vie.
GoodDayToDie said:
"Windows 8 mobile" is a remarkably (pardon my bluntness) stupid term for this OS. "Windows Phone 8" is very nearly as stupid (and that one is Microsoft's fault), but it does at least have two advantages: it distinguishes the Windows line from the Windows Phone line, and it's official. Besides, if you actually wanted to call something "Windows 8 mobile", it would make at least a *little* bit of sense to apply that term to Windows RT, which is a "mobile" (tablet, specifically) OS that actually looks like, and runs a lot of the same software as, Windows 8.
Suggesting that Windows Phone "is still Windows" is ridiculous, patently absurd on the face of it. They don't have the same UI (even ignoring the desktop, "Metro" apps in Win8 look and are interacted with differently from those on the phone, and the Start screens look and are arranged and interacted with differently). They don't run the same software (even where processor architecture isn't an issue, such as with pure .NET apps), although at some point in the future they may be merged to do so. They don't use the same user model (Windows Phone is a single-user system with only an "unlock the screen" protection; Windows - 8 or any other version of the NT desktop line - is a multi-user operating system where users must log into their accounts to use the system). They don't communicate with other computers the same way (Windows supports "Windows networking", including Homegroups, over SMB; Windows Phone has no SMB support but can act as an MTP client device over USB). They don't use the same security model (there's no support for user-accessible "full-trust" apps on Windows Phone; everything must run in an app sandbox). They don't run on the same hardware... do I really need to go on?
There are really only two meaningful similarities between Windows and Windows Phone (no, Microsoft's bone-headed branding does not meet the bar of "meaningful"). First, they both use the Win32 and WinRT APIs (well, sort of; the phone tries to block access to most of Win32 and is missing some of WinRT that the desktop has, the desktop is missing some of the stuff that the phone has too, though). Second, they both use the NT kernel. That's it. The way they sandbox apps is kind of the same, but only kind of (they don't even use the same capability lists, which incidentally is going to make that hypothetical merging of the app ecosystems kind of tricky). The UI has about in much in common between Windows Phone and Windows as Windows (7 or 8, at least) have in common with OS X.
Android's proper name is "Android" (OK, you can append a version number, or version name, if you want). It runs on the Linux kernel, just like MeeGo, WebOS, Ubuntu, and RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux). Turns out that using the kernel as a determiner of "these operating systems are the same" is a really bad idea. Besides, if you were going to do *that*, then you'd have to argue that Windows Phone is one of the oldest smartphone operating systems, since WP7 runs on the CE kernel whose earlier versions powered handheld "smart" devices clear back to 1996.
As for the apps thing... how many WP apps have you written? Do you actually have the least idea how hard or easy it is? I've been writing WP apps for three years now, and I've also written Android apps and reviewed iOS apps. Neither one has as good of tools, and both require more work on the part of the developer to make the app *work*.
I *told* you the reason! It wasn't a "it's because this or that" in the least. Apparently, though, you are wither too wrapped up in your own prejudices to face facts, or you're illiterate... In any case, MS is spending a ton of money trying to promote WP. I happen to think their marketing sucks, but c'est la vie.
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wow what an ego. Look its a Windows Phone period. If your gonna be butt hurt over the name, have a it hoss. Secondly, for a guy who he thinks know everything about Microsoft you really know nothing. You have no idea how or why Microsoft operates the way they do. So when make you own OS or phone device then you can talk. This was suppose be a basic review on windows phone I liked. But some want to focus on names.
A) I actually worked at MS, years ago. In fairness, though, I would never have expected the company to make some of the more braindead policy decisions it's made recently. I still know people who work there, though (living in this area, in the tech sector, you pretty much can't help it), and it doesn't seem like much has changed.
B) It doesn't take a lot of brains to understand how the software industry (including smartphone operating systems and apps) works, even if you *haven't* worked in it your entire adult life. But I suppose you do have to actually attempt to understand the problem, instead of throwing up your hands and complaining about it.
C) I actually have designed and written my own (tiny) OS for an embedded device, not that that makes me unusually qualified to talk about smartphone OSes.
D) I was trying to be helpful and informative, but apparently that point - like so many others - passed you by. Cool, you liked the Lumia 1520. Too bad you apparently didn't even know what OS it runs (hint: not Windows). I wouldn't have bothered writing anything past the first post, which was just to set the record straight (for both yourself and the people who might read your review and become confused) on a couple points, but I guess you couldn't have that...
Well, it made sense when it actually had a resemblance to Windows way back, but that's before they called the whole thing Windows Compact edition. Sure it was the base of a lot of various small devices that didn't have the power of their laptops then and was way more portable, like some cell phones. You could almost compare them with Palm, and at the same time RIM, but that's before they ever had the Blackberry if I recall correctly.
They could have dropped the windows name on their phones, but I'm not too sure it would have lost its product familiarity, and could have been obscured like the Kin and Kin II.
WP7 was obscure on anything besides at&t, and they didn't support CDMA day one either. This kinda messed up the US market, while the rest of the world couldn't have cared more, except Korea? and china (they use a derivative of CDMA.)
To think of the wp7 market share was so small, it was almost unheard of. It still buggs me that Cincinnati Bell still calls it Windows Mobile...
To get back on track, they could use a lesson with customization. It would be cool to swap fonts or change the text on the lock screen so it doesn't take up a quarter of the screen. Its bad for ricing and doesn't sit well with some people. But I don't ever actually see it happening. After all they haven't budged on changing some core features yet....
Sent from my RM-860 using Tapatalk
I like how you say the 1520 is on par with the note 3 even though you've never actually used it for an extended period (if at all) - instead you're comparing a prev gen phone (with probably fixable software issues) with a current gen one...
Just saying...
Apps, WP8 OS and its restrictiveness (some call it security) aside, the core problem with the 1520 and other Phablet phones on WP8 at the moment is simply this: WP8 is not optimised for phablets.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/the-lumia-1520-enormous-hardware-troublesome-software/2/
liqn7 said:
I like how you say the 1520 is on par with the note 3 even though you've never actually used it for an extended period (if at all) - instead you're comparing a prev gen phone (with probably fixable software issues) with a current gen one...
Just saying...
Apps, WP8 OS and its restrictiveness (some call it security) aside, the core problem with the 1520 and other Phablet phones on WP8 at the moment is simply this: WP8 is not optimised for phablets.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/the-lumia-1520-enormous-hardware-troublesome-software/2/
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I never said it was on par with note 3. I'm saying this phone does everything I did on my note 2. The note 3 has tech the 1520 doesn't have.
Good review, Nice to hear something positive for a change, I have a White Lumia 1520, Got it Monday and love it, Compared to my previous Lumia 920 and other Windows Phones I have owned it simply is the best, That is just my opinion, Some ppl will find it too large to handle comfortably, I have large hands so not a problem, It is perfect for my usage,
Have to agree that the OS does need some further optimisations for Phablets as some things and Apps display just too large
Thank for you for the review Vallista.
As for your little back and forth...I could call anything well anything, it doesn't mean people would understand me. Using proper terminology seems to me...to be akin to using the correct syntax and terminologies when going into your local swag bar and asking for 2 fingers of Laphroaig, neat. One can not simply order a Scotch and expect the same result.
From A Note 1 to the 1520
I was given a Surface at work pilot in our environment, and was very impressed with it. My Note 1 was long overdue to be replaced (but flapjax ROM's ran so great its kept up fine), and so I opted to give Windows Phone 8 a go. I had previously used WinMo 5 and 6, followed by a very brief run with the iPhone, and stuck with Android for about 3 years.
I miss the ability to customize, a lot. Admittedly I didn't do a lot of research going into WP8, but not being able to change DPI etc is disappointing. I feel like I'm back in the iPhone sandbox. I do really like the hardware of this device, and there are some aspects of WP8 that I really appreciate. Having Office on my phone has been a lifesaver for school. I like trying new things so it's still fun finding a lot of the nuances, but I really wish I could start flashing something better than the stock ROM.
The Lumia 1520 is an awesome device, and WP8 runs very smoothly on it out of the box. I would consider WP8 better than iOS, but Android will still win until Microsoft allows the users of their device to fine tune more settings of their device. I won't hold my breath for that, but I'll contribute as much as I can here on XDA to help a dev make it happen.
Got Lumia
I have similar story - moved from Note 2 to White Lumia 1520. I wrote some programs for android before and I like android and never had any problem with Note 2 but.. sometimes it is useful for people to get out of comfort :laugh:
I wrote programs for WM too but SDK for WP8 is completely different and more complex in my opinion. Maybe this is just first impression.
The device itself is really cool, I like it. WP8 is too strict and have few applications. Similar was when I had Dell Streak 5 with Android 1.6 as my first android device - at that time people laugh at me like I see in this thread. Hope that Microsoft will catch up, improve WP8 fast.
Check out our stunning photos made with Lumia 1520 and Nokia Camera
More inside
http://www.windowsmania.pl/dyskusja...przy-swiecach-czyli-seria-wigilijna-raw-7809/
Too bad the marketing department at Microsoft and Nokia didn't capture my wife's opinion of the 1520 because it would be a good commercial. My wife hates technology and has no interest in learning new devices...If fact she didn't want to even upgrade her iphone. Then the other day we walk into the Microsoft Store and she sees the 1520 and immediately said she wanted it. I thought that was particularly interesting since she laughed at the size of my Note 3. She left Sprint and the IPhone to move to the Nokia. She even had to pay more per month. She loves it. Not much more I can say except I love it too. I am not ready to give up my Note 3 and Galaxy Gear but think the 1520 is really well done.
Sent from my SM-N900P using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
djtonka said:
Check out our stunning photos made with Lumia 1520 and Nokia Camera
More inside
http://www.windowsmania.pl/dyskusja...przy-swiecach-czyli-seria-wigilijna-raw-7809/
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What settings did you use to get that photo?
Sent from my Xperia™ Tablet Z
Vallista said:
This was suppose be a basic review on windows phone I liked. But some want to focus on names.
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Thanks for the review . Like you I used to own a Note 2 and liked it.. at first, but I found it was a little big for me. I must be honest though, I mustve owned about 10 Android phones and I was never happy, even with the stunning hardware of the HTC One.. i traded and sold them back and forwards and it was only when I bought my first Ativ S, I was instantly converted. Now I own a 925 and love it, wanting a 1020 when its price comes down.
The question I asked myself was .. What makes WP8 great over Android?. which the simple answer is "It just works flawlessly".