Database Users

"Android fragmentation at a minimum" they say...

I remember a while back when Google said that they were going to keep Android OS fragmentation at a minimum or I think it was not at all...
Yet along comes honeycomb a version of Android built specifically for tablets.
-Sigh-
What are your thoughts?

It's going to be very tricky to have tablets and phone with the same processing power, let alone have people wanting the same things from both.

I don't think it fragmentation at all, just a version built for tablets. I wouldn't want that on a phone <5".
I would like to see a source for that too because the whole point of the OS is for the carrier/manufacture to customize it. They are the ones that need to update faster.

fragmentation is heavy on android platform, let it be because of freedom of customization, lack of support from phone builder for updates, etc. No need to quote source, just read on it, there's plenty of info on that.

Well he said Google says but didn't give a source for it.
I know there are multiple versions out that are lower than AOSP, it's a fact. There are also features left out of recent iOS versions that are not available on older versions but because they have the same v# people don't seem to complain about it.
But there is ZERO reason to blame Google for not updating blur/touchwiz/sense when it is the Manufactures obligation to update the software with their skin.

Honeycomb has nothing to do with phones though. The OS is made specifically for tablets. Its like windows ce. Yea, its called windows, but because it only runs on smaller devices doesn't make windows fragmented. Same thing applies here. Honeycomb is specifically made for tablets.

The windows ce example is a bad one. Have u used a wall windows ce device (not windows mobile - ce/embedded edition windows)?
In any case as long as APIs are kept consistent there should not be any big problems.
The fragmentation is only problematic because of the way devices are supported, tbh...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Windows 8 on x86 android devices?

Before anyone says anything, no, this is not another topic asking the stupid, worn out question "can I haz w8 on my kindle fire/nook/transformer prime/galaxySII/ect"
At CES there are several android devices being shown off with x86 processors: Intel atom CPUs. Would it be possible, provided internal storage is big enough, to be able to run the full version of windows 8 on these pieces of hardware? I can't think of any reasons why not, and being able to run full versions of x86 windows off of a cell phone is just amazing. IMHO it'd be worth the price of a seat of windows 8, and dual booting with android ICS sounds incredible. So, is there anything I'm missing? Or would the hardware support it fairly easily? I can't think of any roadblocks, other than the annoyance of installing off of microSD.

I think this must be a new kind of Atom-CPUs that are built for the ARM-architecture on which Android runs? I red somewhere that they wanted to release that Kind of CPUs this year.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

No, they're definitely x86 chips.

If it has BIOS/EFI it will be done

mtmerrick said:
Before anyone says anything, no, this is not another topic asking the stupid, worn out question "can I haz w8 on my kindle fire/nook/transformer prime/galaxySII/ect"
At CES there are several android devices being shown off with x86 processors: Intel atom CPUs. Would it be possible, provided internal storage is big enough, to be able to run the full version of windows 8 on these pieces of hardware? I can't think of any reasons why not, and being able to run full versions of x86 windows off of a cell phone is just amazing. IMHO it'd be worth the price of a seat of windows 8, and dual booting with android ICS sounds incredible. So, is there anything I'm missing? Or would the hardware support it fairly easily? I can't think of any roadblocks, other than the annoyance of installing off of microSD.
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Why bother about it being on x86, windows 8 will run on ARM architecture too if I'm not mistaken

Because putting W8ARM on existing devices is probably impossible and quite likely to be illegal.

Not sure why it would be illegal. If you own a license of the OS, you should be able to run it on whatever you want - unless, like the Apple stuff there's some kind of EULA that states that you specifically can't. I seriously doubt MS would bother to screw with people who tried anyway.
The Developer Preview of W8 is x86/x64 only anyway. Hopefully the beta coming in February will Feb will have arm support. I'm hoping to get it working on a Galaxy Tab 10.1 but who knows?
One potential caveat. I've heard that the ARM version will only work with Metro apps. If that's the case, it will be far less useful. Forget running all that excellent software you already have and know an love.
Greg

Microsoft (and the hardware manufacturers of current Android devices) don't want this to happen on ARM devices, because having an open bootloader and a myriad of Linux distributions would hurt their ecosystems. All ARM W8 tablets will come with locked bootloaders by specification, just like Android ones. Existing Android devices and others like the TouchPad will be very difficult to port this to because the bootloader security is different from current devices. But who wants ARM Windows 8 as the old apps and desktop don't work on it?
Regarding x86: If it's possible on the HTC Shift, it will sure be possible on Medfield (next-gen Atom for phones) devices, especially if the bootloader is open. If it's closed the scene will figure out how to unlock it and install Windows 7/W8/Ubuntu/etc. on it just like on a regular PC, which would mean having access to all legacy apps. Of course dual boot would also be possible.

geebake said:
Not sure why it would be illegal. If you own a license of the OS, you should be able to run it on whatever you want - unless, like the Apple stuff there's some kind of EULA that states that you specifically can't. I seriously doubt MS would bother to screw with people who tried anyway.
The Developer Preview of W8 is x86/x64 only anyway. Hopefully the beta coming in February will Feb will have arm support. I'm hoping to get it working on a Galaxy Tab 10.1 but who knows?
One potential caveat. I've heard that the ARM version will only work with Metro apps. If that's the case, it will be far less useful. Forget running all that excellent software you already have and know an love.
Greg
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Since only OEMs will be able to buy W8 ARM liscences, and liscences are not device transferable, you will not be allowed to port it to a non-liscenced device, just like Windows Mobile or WP7.
And no, W8ARM will not be able to run x86 programs.

I think there's an excellent chance that private users will be able to get a copy of W8 for arm.
And whether or not x86 code will run in the arm version is definitely not settled.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/07/desktop-apps-may-run-on-win8-for-arm-after-all-maybe/

I read that article and laughed. Never once did they mention ARM - they were reffering to the 'classic desktop' UI, and they can't decide if W8ARM will be metro only, or have the (for ARM) near useless classic desktop.
Give up all hope that W8ARM will have an emulator built in. Its not going to happen, performance will be so terrible it would alienate customers. W8ARM will not be available to consumers for the same reason WP7 isn't - Microsoft would loose too much control and non-techie customers would be too confused.

Not sure but does this mean windows 8 on a Cisco Cius is possible cause it has an Intel atom processor?
Sent via Samsung Skyrocket with Sky ICS

if it has an atom processor, it should be. as with anything cross-platform, drivers would be an issue, but that shouldn't be too hard to overcome.

That's pretty awesome
Sent via Samsung Skyrocket with Sky ICS

yes right, i am agree with u

I personally hope intel medfield kills off any arm competitors in the windows 8 tablet business. I am not happy with how closed arm can be compared to x86.

The arm architecture is more open than x86. But indeed you can do more on x86 based hardware as there is more software available for it.

moved to general

As long as your x86 Android netbook can boot from USB storage and isn't locked into the OSes that it came with, I guess it could be possible as long as the amount of RAM and internal storage meet the minimum requirements.
Sent from my LS670 using XDA

x86 instruction sets are one thing but drivers are a whole different ball game.
But in theory yes, Win 8 x86 could run on x86 android hardware, with several very large assumptions being made
as for ARM, I think we can forget x86 emulation, the overheads would cripple it. To be honest, I personally wouldn't have a use for an ARM tablet, an x86 tablet however would be very useful, so come on Intel, get your finger out and give us some affordable ultra low watt x86 SoCs, keep it cheap an OEMS will trip over them selves buying them, after all, backward compatibility means les overheads for companies and less hassle for users.

Looks like B&N Caved to MS

Barnes & Noble and Microsoft have settled their patent litigation, and moving forward, Barnes & Noble and Newco will have a royalty-bearing license under Microsoft’s patents for its NOOK eReader and Tablet products.
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http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2012/Apr12/04-30CorpNews.aspx

Wait what... Reading article
Edit: does this affect us at all?

brendan10211 said:
Wait what... Reading article
Edit: does this affect us at all?
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Probably not with current devices, but to me, it means that future devices are very likely to be windows based instead of android based.

I don't think that it will switch immediately to Window-based,
but no good can come from inviting an 800 pound gorilla to our private party.

I think M$ is more looking to bundle the Nook reader App with Windows 8 and leverage B&N's store for the books.
I really can't foresee M$ being able to scale down Windows 8 to run with any efficiency on an e-reader like the NST.
And M$ investment amounts to 17.6% so they are not in a controlling position, just a favorable one.
I don't see it as a bad deal for B&N as it gives them some capital to shore up the new company as well as get a sticky piece of patent litigation off their backs.
It still remains to be seen how it all plays out. Remember M$ did pretty much the same thing with Apple and look how that turned out for them.

From the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17896534
The Windows 8 operating system is specifically designed to work with touch screens and mobile devices like tablet computers.
Its Metro user interface can host small dedicated applications like Nook to sit on top of Windows.
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Yes, a new Nook Color tablet device could be built for Windoze 8, but they would have to ramp up the hardware on an e-ink reader to run that.
Which would raise cost of manufacture which translates to a higher consumer price.
There are already complaints about the $40 price increase for the new Nook GL (which I love btw, got mine today...woot!). The Flexiglow tech is still a new technology and early adopters have to pay a premium for using it in their devices.
How much more would people pay for an e-ink capable of running Windoze 8?
Then there is the Windoze 8 interface. M$ is hard bent on ensuring that the OS remains the same core across all hardware platforms. That would not be an insignificant hurdle for an e-ink reader.
Could it happen? Sure, it's not impossible. But I think there are more than few tough barriers to pass to get there.
How much money will it cost and is M$ willing to spend it?
And then there the fickle consumer.
B&N currently has a working formula. It could use some tweaking, but do you totally scrap that for Windoze 8?
Ok, I probably rambled too much, back to reading in the dark!

B&N CEO Lynch doesn't immediately foresee a Windoze 8 Nook either:
Fortune: Will we see Microsoft engineers and other Redmond-based talent actively working on new Nook devices and software?
Lynch: Currently, we've not communicated anything related to the roadmap about any hardware collaboration on Nook. Nook, as you know, uses open sourcing. Microsoft is obviously very entrenched in Windows. On the reading software side, in reading technologies, they're making interesting integrations into Windows, potentially Office. That kind of work has already started. Definitively yes.
Fortune: With the announcement, there's a lot of speculation now about what can come out of this partnership, like a potential Nook based on Windows 8, as opposed to Android. What can you tell us about the possibilities there?
Lynch: If you look at the content sort of flow from authoring tools, obviously, Microsoft is one of the leaders, if not the leader in authoring tools with Word, PowerPoint, Excel, their Office franchise, all the way through the transaction buying merchandising, sale or cloud management of the content. You can see us working across that.
So again we haven't announced anything specifically, but imagine an integration where an information worker, student, author, consumer, creates something in Office and has it immediately published for sale through the Nook book store. It starts to open a lot of exciting possibilities.
Full article including adding NFC: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/05/01/nook/

why all this speculation focusing on a Nook device of the future running on full Windows 8 when the perfectly natural OS would be a Win Phone 7 variant?
not to mention the OS that e-reading and font smoothing was marketed on first and the foundation of what xda-dev was made for - WINDOWS CE, which is still in develoment as an embedded OS.
I for one welcome a CE Nook, no rooting required!
also, coincidentally, MS just filed a patent app for e-ink 2nd screen to display interactive info. I'd also love to slave my NST to my Windows 8 as a separate touchpad with display!

Personally, I don't want to see a Windows 8 Nook for one reason: Price.
As it is the price for nooks is mostly hardware what with Android being a free OS and not requiring things such as royalties (being opensourced and all) if it all goes to Windows 8 I see the price going up as you'll not only be paying for the hardware, but you'd also be paying for the Windows 8 OS on the device, which would no doubt push the price point higher cause you know M$ has to have their cut. Instead of a $99 e-ink reader we'd probably be looking at $199 or $299 if say it were possible to switch the current Nook Touch to Windows 8 (it isn't but still). The higher end hardware which would be required for Windows 8 will mean that will also push the price point higher than it needs to be. Also replacing current devices with all W8 devices means they've effectively killed their App Market and since I can't see M$ playing nicely on that front they'd lose a source of income.
Another thing is, I can't see M$ playing nicely with people who want to create their own UI to replace whatever UI is on the tablet. Meaning that while you could run a Nook app on the device, you'd still be able to access everything else. So this could be a good point getting away from the restrictive UIs Nooks are known for if they went Win8.
Personally I think B&N needs to stick to android based devices, possibly releasing a W8 Tablet separately that doesn't replace any of their current devices. This would allow for them to continue making lower priced devices for customers who don't want all the bells and whistles of a higher end device.

Yes.
Thanks for an interesting read, guys
If any products are replaced, I'm pretty sure people will stop buying them.. Even though Windows 8 is cool and all, M$ is pushing too hard.

brendan10211 said:
Yes.
Thanks for an interesting read, guys
If any products are replaced, I'm pretty sure people will stop buying them.. Even though Windows 8 is cool and all, M$ is pushing too hard.
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Mainly because the Windows Phone 7 interface was pretty much the only one they came up wtih by themselves. They're acting like a kid that just learned a new word that's fun to say; all they want to do is show everyone the word and try to get them saying it.

That sounds like me..
Thanks for the great analogy.

GabrialDestruir said:
Personally, I don't want to see a Windows 8 Nook for one reason: Price.
As it is the price for nooks is mostly hardware what with Android being a free OS and not requiring things such as royalties (being opensourced and all) if it all goes to Windows 8 I see the price going up as you'll not only be paying for the hardware, but you'd also be paying for the Windows 8 OS on the device,
...
Another thing is, I can't see M$ playing nicely with people who want to create their own UI to replace whatever UI is on the tablet. Meaning that while you could run a Nook app on the device, you'd still be able to access everything else. So this could be a good point getting away from the restrictive UIs Nooks are known for if they went Win8.
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again... Windows CE is still in developement for embedded devices and runs on way more anemic ARM hardware than the NST and about the same as the WP7 OS. Plus their development is already paid for and very reliable and very developer friendly. remember, the core of XDA-DEV was built on modding Win CE and changing the UI. I could certainly see that for an eInk budget device.
yet, the future of the Nook Color / Tablet could be running on the Win 8 ARM OS, I agree with you there, and that would open up the device more than B&N does out of the box. target price of a full Intel based Windows 7 and 8 tablet is already $500. they are totally aiming for the $200 - $300 market with their ARM version of 8. I bet price would remain competitive.
although if you look at the aquisition of Skype, MS has been very slow to change anything or absorb them into other products. MS may do absolutely nothing to the Nook hardware line if it's working.

How difficult will Windows 8 be to root.

I enjoy flashing roms and if I can't do that I may not go with a windows phone.
Sent from incredible 2 .

please check out the windows phone 8 forum for windows phone. As for the question I would say wait and see because until we get our hands on with the device its impossible to say. We will have a much better idea in 2 weeks

I see I posted it in the wrong spot.
I saw in wp8 forum somebody posted a similar question and they're getting their head cut off.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda premium

wmsforties said:
I see I posted it in the wrong spot.
I saw in wp8 forum somebody posted a similar question and they're getting their head cut off.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda premium
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It is quite a volatile question lol

I think the OP might be talking about RT, which does need rooting. There's no way to tell, though, until the tabs actually get onto store shelves.

RT will probably be a royal pain in the arse, if WP7 security has been copied on to Win8 RT then we are all DOOOOOOOOMED
at least until an OEM screws up and its bypassed
Win 8 (x86) probably fairly easy pickings and unlikely to give anyone any bother, its like your regular Win 7 so I don't foresee a big issue, secure boot might prove a concern but not in a "rooting" sense as you will already have that, it might be a wee bit trickier to install other OSs or to hack the OS but all the usual stuff will still be possible on a x86 Win 8

>RT will probably be a royal pain in the arse, if WP7 security has been copied on to Win8 RT then we are all DOOOOOOOOMED
It doesn't matter. All announced Win RT tablets are north of $600, which aren't competitive with Clovertrail tabs that can run full Win8, let alone iPads and Androids. Few will buy into RT this year.
Moreover, it doesn't matter if RT is locked down or not. Because Intel tabs look to be viable on performance & battery life, if RT gets to be a PITA about its walled garden, people (and hackers) will simply stick to x86 and Win8. The only loser is Win RT and Microsoft.
The first order of biz for Win8 is to put it on a diet and strip out most of the 20GB bloat, to maximize what remains of your 64GB storage. I expect Win enthusiasts will take on this task, as they did for XP (XPLite) and Win7 (RT7Lite).

e.mote said:
>RT will probably be a royal pain in the arse, if WP7 security has been copied on to Win8 RT then we are all DOOOOOOOOMED
It doesn't matter. All announced Win RT tablets are north of $600, which aren't competitive with Clovertrail tabs that can run full Win8, let alone iPads and Androids. Few will buy into RT this year.
Moreover, it doesn't matter if RT is locked down or not. Because Intel tabs look to be viable on performance & battery life, if RT gets to be a PITA about its walled garden, people (and hackers) will simply stick to x86 and Win8. The only loser is Win RT and Microsoft.
The first order of biz for Win8 is to put it on a diet and strip out most of the 20GB bloat, to maximize what remains of your 64GB storage. I expect Win enthusiasts will take on this task, as they did for XP (XPLite) and Win7 (RT7Lite).
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It seems you think that the majority of consumers are, well, us... We're outnumbered by an incredible amount man, the majority of people purchasing anything out there don't even know what "root" means... Nor do they care...
I don't exactly see how Microsoft is losing by successfully protecting their product where most others have failed. The only way to obtain root on most devices is through some security hole exploit or something, indicating that the developer did not want you to have root on your device, it is not like it's a feature of the operating system... Microsoft is just doing the same thing that everyone else has done, except they seem to be the only ones who have done it right... We love having full access to our devices here, we hate being locked down but I think that keeping us from breaking into their devices is technically a win for Microsoft & a loss for us.

>I don't exactly see how Microsoft is losing by successfully protecting their product where most others have failed.
Normally, a company erects a walled garden when it has something to protect, eg a successful product, or a market lead that it doesn't want the competition to copy.
MS is erecting a walled garden for RT, a platform that is yet to have any audience, and at launch will behind its competitors in every metric--pricing, content, software, hardware. Perhaps you would be kind enough to point to me what it is that is worth protecting. To me, it's corporate idiocy gone amok.
Putting aside RT for the moment, Win8 is starting its leak to mainstream media now. Of the various Main Street reaction pieces being written about it, one word sums them up: "confusing." If Surface tanks, it'll be just one more in a long series of failed MS initiatives. But if Win8 tanks, it's a hit to its main piggy bank.
I like Win8, but I'm aware that people will have different reactions, and IMO Win8 is going to have a rough time with the userbase--rough enough that a comparison to Vista may be appropriate. No need to argue about it. Launch is next week, and we'll get plenty of reactions from the hoi polloi.
I'd love to have a full-fledged OS on a tablet. But Win8 is a WIP, and my gauge it'll take at least another cycle for mobile use. For my current use, I'm bypassing the Metro UI and using it as a regular desktop OS. My opinion of Windows-on-ARM (RT) is much less optimistic. It won't die, but it will be on life support, waiting for a resuscitation in version 2.0. Let's hope MS perseveres.

Um... no offense @e.mote, but WTF are you talking about? Surface RT starts at $499, not "over $600" by any stretch of the imagination, and there are other vendors announcing Windows RT devices too.
As for "rooting" it... it's Windows NT6.2, and very similar to the desktop version. Getting "root" is a UAC prompt away, nothing more. Heck, you can log in as Administrator if you want to (it's disabled by default, as on Win7, but it can be enabled). It's a multi-user OS (unlike iOS and most if not all Android installs) and uses standard Windows accounts ("Metro-style" Windows Store apps use low-privileged chambers, similar to WP7, but the standard user experience on the desktop is pretty similar to on x86 Win8 except you can't run third-party EXEs.
Now, if you want to talk about bypassing that little restriction on the end there... that'll take some work. It's probably possible, but it will depend on where the check is implemented and enforced, how much debug functionality is exposed in the OS (some things, like sideloading of "Metro" apps, is already known to be available), and how many layers of protection there are. Worst case, it'll take a ring-0 (kernel, essentially) exploit to overwrite the loader check in the running RAM image. More likely, it will require some moderate tweaking to put the device into a "test mode" plus installing a custom signing certificate and signing your binaries, or something similar to that.

[Q] windroid 8?

Can someone point or steer me in the right direction?
I am a IT/hackit type person, and I am searching for the best "do it all" system. I don't mind glitchy/buggy systems so long as I can always boot or flash the system stable if I need/want to.
(Read below, if you want to know why/how I got here)
I am largely clueless about windows 7, 2008r2, 8, 8rt, and all post wince phone varients, but I want to expose myself to it if at all possible. I really want to re.perk my interest in linux/android/windows and anything else I am not up on (Facebook/twitter/cloudXYZ intigration).
I haven't used an iphone/ipad much (I had an early ipod, one of the USB sticks with no screen). Other than almost always smooth interface, and high res display, it hasn't perked my interest much. That may just be all the guppies, itunes, closed mindedness, and general leash to many of them wear. If I ever got one, it would either need to run android (or heck, windows, bsd, anything), or there would need some other compelling reason ( runs android/google play apps, has a 3rd part app store, or I dunno, something).
Anyways, back on topic...
I am seeking hardware that can do all, or most all, of the following:
Run android ICS/JB
Has a somewhat active community
Can operate as a tablet and phone (preferably gsm/3g with native phone support)
Can run whatever flavors of windows are interesting (Windows 8, windows 8 rt, etc)
If needed, I can jump ship to x86, but I don't know how unusable android might be.
I'm willing to virtualize or split hardware if I must. (I.e. voip, vmware, terminal, etc.)
A nice plus would be incredible hardware specs (4 core or >1gb ram), even if price is high.
Right now I have a 2 month old galaxy tab 7.7 (p6800). It died, and is in the process of being fixed/replaced/refunded. It's demise prompted my search for a replacement, which in turn, brought me across some windows 8 articles. All I know about windows 8 is what I read in the past hour or so. I came across some stuff about an ARM capable windows (though limited by secure boot), some dual booting of windows x86 tablets, and I think some ICS/win7phone?, etc. I couldn't figure out where to start reading and/or if I should skip it or split it.
BELOW:
Welcome to my personal short story. In short, I have been very ill, and offline for the past 4 years. Prior to that I haven't gone more than a day or two since 1986 without in some way using a computer. I have always hovered at the bleeding edge, and started my career pushing customized solutions, documentation, and "proof of concept" designs.
Fast forward to 2007, using my IT skills I switched to a more top end systems/workflow design, decision matrix, and proof of concept (often centered around server consolidation, virtualization, and terminal emulation (everything from bsd/linux to dos/windows). I also touched countless applications from legacy to high end multimedia/desktops. Most all of my off time was spent pushing hardware, network(+internet), operating system, and virtulalization/duel booting/cross platform interoperability.
Shortly before 2004, I had a life saving surgery, and was good to go (at my best). Then, in 2007/2008 I suffered several major relapses in health. From then until early this year (2012), I was so sick, I couldn't do much at all. Being an early adopter of the original motorola droid, I did manage to stay in touch. I did some very simplistic modding, but didn't have the brain power to do much. My family got me a droid x and a xoom tablet later on, and I had a couple good spells where I rooted and did lite modding.
Why all this detail? It's my best effort to show my perspective and maybe where I am trying to come at or re-enter the IT/hackery world. I really want to catch up, start having fun again, and get cleared to work again!
Thanks for reading this, any pointers to hardware, ariticals, forums, and/or just some search terms would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
-D0c5i5 (aka. Jon or JonC)

There is nothing
I believe there is an old 2.x version of Android running on x86 meaning you could buy a normal x86 device and install Win 8 and Android
using win RT devices with android isn't possible yet
installing RT on Android devices isn't possible yet
Windows phone was never "hacked" as such so if MS insisted on the same level of security its highly unlikely we will have dual boot ARM devices any time soon.
as for dual boot x86, well, youd better get on to the android folk for that one

dazza9075 said:
There is nothing
I believe there is an old 2.x version of Android running on x86 meaning you could buy a normal x86 device and install Win 8 and Android
using win RT devices with android isn't possible yet
installing RT on Android devices isn't possible yet
Windows phone was never "hacked" as such so if MS insisted on the same level of security its highly unlikely we will have dual boot ARM devices any time soon.
as for dual boot x86, well, youd better get on to the android folk for that one
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http://www.android-x86.org/

There's also BlueStacks for emulating Android apps on Windows. I don't believe they have an RT version, though.

JihadSquad said:
http://www.android-x86.org/
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Known issues
•Suspend and resume doesn't work on some targets.
•Not support Ethernet.
indeed, its been updated to ICS