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Hi guys,
N910C with Exynos here.
I have some questions for you guys.
1) Is it beneficial to use a generic (but good) 1/2 A (amp) 5 V (volts) charger over the Samsung charger?
2) What happens if I leave "fast charge" option on? Will it charge faster? Will it try to?
3) When using the provided Samsung charger, is it better for the battery to leave the "fast charge" option off?
4) Is the fast charge (or any fast charged charge) as good and efficient(?) as a 'slow' charge? Will they last the same?
5) What if I turn off the phone, is it going to "fast charge" by default when using the the provided charger?
Thanks in advance guys!
Sent from my SM-N910C
fedecape said:
1) Is it beneficial to use a generic (but good) 1/2 A (amp) 5 V (volts) charger over the Samsung charger
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No. It won't do any harm, it will just take more time to charge your Note.
2) What happens if I leave "fast charge" option on? Will it charge faster? Will it try to?
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It will charge slowly. Reason: Fast charging uses a slightly higher voltage for transferring the charge to the charging circuit. That's to keep the amperage low, so the tiny wires won't overheat. It's just according to the formula W = V x A: You can increase the wattage by increasing the amperage (heating up the wires) or by increasing the voltage (keeping the wires cool).
That's the reason why many countries don't use 110 V but 230 V - to decrease the burden on the electricity lines as you can then safely transfer more watts through the same lines. It's a kind of safety measure.
3) When using the provided Samsung charger, is it better for the battery to leave the "fast charge" option off?
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No. Fast charging does not reach the safety limits defined for our battery.
4) Is the fast charge (or any fast charged charge) as good and efficient(?) as a 'slow' charge? Will they last the same?
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Yes. Just imagine it this way: If you fill your car at the fuel station slowly or fast - does that show any effect on your car's range ? - No.
5) What if I turn off the phone, is it going to "fast charge" by default when using the the provided charger?
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If you enabled that in the settings, yes. Otherwise: No.
One question is missing: "Does Fast charge harm my battery if charging under hot climate conditions?"
Answer: No. There are temperature sensors in the battery, decreasing or even stopping the charge if the temperature gets too high.
Short: The difference between slow and fast charging is - slow charging charges slow. And that's it.
Chefproll said:
No.
It will charge slowly.
No.
Yes.
If you enabled that in the settings.
Short: The difference between slow and fast charging is - slow charging charges slow. And that's it.
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Thanks!
So why isn't fast charge always enabled? Why are we given the slow charge option?
Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
fedecape said:
So why isn't fast charge always enabled? Why are we given the slow charge option?
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To be honest: You already answered your own question - by asking your questions.
If you have a look around XDA, you'll find countless threads discussing the "problem" - many users fear Fast charging may harm their battery.
Some users even believe the battery would be charged with an overvoltage (as that voltage is mentioned on the rating plate of the charger), thus causing damage.
No, not true. That higher voltage is just used for safely "transporting" the charge through the wires by keeping the amperage low. After that, the charging circuit will regulate voltage and amperage down to healthy levels prior to reaching the battery.
But people get misled by many self-proclaimed "experts" (which will surely show up here, too) praying that Fast charge is a work of evil; just wait.
That's why Samsung made that feature an option, not a rule. A courtesy for the overcautious.
Chefproll said:
To be honest: You already answered your own question - by asking your questions.
If you have a look around XDA, you'll find countless threads discussing the "problem" - many users fear Fast charging may harm their battery.
Some users even believe the battery would be charged with an overvoltage (as that voltage is mentioned on the rating plate of the charger), thus causing damage.
No, not true. That higher voltage is just used for safely "transporting" the charge through the wires by keeping the amperage low. After that, the charging circuit will regulate voltage and amperage down to healthy levels prior to reaching the battery.
But people get misled by many self-proclaimed "experts" (which will surely show up here, too) praying that Fast charge is a work of evil; just wait.
That's why Samsung made that feature an option, not a rule. A courtesy for the overcautious.
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Awesome! Good to know
Hope this thread helps other people too
Thank you!
Chefproll said:
To be honest: You already answered your own question - by asking your questions.
If you have a look around XDA, you'll find countless threads discussing the "problem" - many users fear Fast charging may harm their battery.
Some users even believe the battery would be charged with an overvoltage (as that voltage is mentioned on the rating plate of the charger), thus causing damage.
No, not true. That higher voltage is just used for safely "transporting" the charge through the wires by keeping the amperage low. After that, the charging circuit will regulate voltage and amperage down to healthy levels prior to reaching the battery.
But people get misled by many self-proclaimed "experts" (which will surely show up here, too) praying that Fast charge is a work of evil; just wait.
That's why Samsung made that feature an option, not a rule. A courtesy for the overcautious.
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Hi again,
Let me ask you one last question.
I need to buy a new battery because I never make it home with charge. Is there anything that I have to keep in mind? Is it OK if I use fast charge with a generic battery?
Thanks
Sent from my SM-N910C
fedecape said:
I need to buy a new battery because I never make it home with charge. Is there anything that I have to keep in mind? Is it OK if I use fast charge with a generic battery?
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I'd stick with the original Samsung batteries. They had problems in the past (deforming, bulging S4 batteries losing almost all of their capacity - I had one of those myself, got exchanged for free), but I guess they solved the problem.
Reason is: Li-Ion batteries may have different charging parameters; like maximum allowable current.
The Fast charger was made specifically for the Note 4s battery. If you buy a different type, the fast charging current may exceed the current rating of a third party battery, leading to highly unwanted effects including destruction of the battery.
This is not too likely because each battery has (or should have) a built-in charging circuit for limiting the current, which even switches off charging if the battery's temperature reaches unhealthy levels. But it's still possible, depending on the battery type and manufacturer. I wouldn't place any high bets on charging circuits of cheap batteries; everything's possible.
That's why it's best to stick with original batteries - at least in this case.
fedecape said:
Hi again,
Let me ask you one last question.
I need to buy a new battery because I never make it home with charge. Is there anything that I have to keep in mind? Is it OK if I use fast charge with a generic battery?
Thanks
Sent from my SM-N910C
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Click to collapse
If I were you I would stick with the Samsung battery, they don't cost that much and they come with their own charger and holder. It may cost a little more but you get a full warranty with it.
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
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Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Click to collapse
I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
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Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
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Click to collapse
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.
Maybe this is old news but today I learned that the YotaPhone 2 charger shipped with the phone is actually Qualcomm Quickcharge 2.0 compatible. This means you can also charge other Qualcomm Quickcharge 2.0 compatible phones with it, like my other phone the Moto G4+. Works perfectly.
Yes, I've been using my QuickCharge 3.0 charger and it's charging with 9V ~1,3A.
kbal said:
Yes, I've been using my QuickCharge 3.0 charger and it's charging with 9V ~1,3A.
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Dont, fastcharging will greatly reduce you battery life.
Enviado desde mi SM-N930F mediante Tapatalk
kingtiamath said:
Dont, fastcharging will greatly reduce you battery life.
Enviado desde mi SM-N930F mediante Tapatalk
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Although it is true it reduces your battery life it is only by a small margin, nog greatly.
VirtuaLeech said:
Although it is true it reduces your battery life it is only by a small margin, nog greatly.
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Im afraid it does. I have done many experiments myself and batteries often charged with fastcharge in as little as 6 months give you no more than 70% of its original charge.
Enviado desde mi SM-N930F mediante Tapatalk
..the same goes for wireless charging btw.
Amplificator said:
..the same goes for wireless charging btw.
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Are you joking? What is your answer based on?
Wireless charging runs on a much lower amperage so it should be the best solution to charge your phone.
nonyhaha said:
Are you joking? What is your answer based on?
Wireless charging runs on a much lower amperage so it should be the best solution to charge your phone.
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My answer is based on simple physics.
Just because the amps are lower doesn't mean it's not bad for the battery.
Wireless charging is way less efficient than any form of wired charging.
What happens to the loss? Well, it gets dissipated as heat - and what is the "big killer" of lithium batteries? ..heat.
For this single fact alone, denying that wireless charging causes more harm than a cabled charging is simply.. well, silly.
The only ones denying this are either unaware of simple science or are lying to you, probably to sell you a charger
Yes, every form of charging, even at a theoretical 100% efficiency will heat up the battery due to chemical reactions inside the battery, but the lower efficiency you have the more energy is converted into heat - thus you do more damage and getting even less actual battery-energy out of it.
Simply put: the best charging method is the one that produces the least amount of heat while maintaining a high efficiency - wireless charging is simply not that.
Charging using a cable at 90% means 10% is being converted into heat (not all 10%, but for arguments sake, play along), where as using wireless charging might be at.. 50% depending on different circumstances (probably a lot closer to 70% than 50%, but again, for arguments sake).
This means that the other 50% is just turned into wasted, unnecessary and unwanted heat.
The percentages obviously aren't correct in this example, but it's more to get the point across.
With wireless charging you do more damage (it is subjective as to whether this matters to you) to the battery than you would by using a cable, simply because you create more excessive heat which only purpose is to heat up the battery and surrounding area than actually going into the battery itself.
If we consider the 50% efficiency of the before mentioned example, this means that you would need to charge your device for almost twice as long time as when you use a cable. Not only does it create more heat by virtue of being inductive charging, but it will be doing so for, again, almost twice the time length.
Efficiency also depends on things like distance - the less "perfect" your phone is placed on the charger the less efficient, and thus more wasteful it is.
Google something like "qi wireless charging overheating" and you will see plenty of people reporting on overheating problems when using wireless charging. This is because of all this wasted energy that is dissipated as heat - instead of "filling" the battery it simply heats it, and the surroundings, up.
Despite being made to the same specs, this seem to differ from charger to charger, such as this thread here on XDA would indicate: http://forum.xda-developers.com/google-nexus-5/help/post-qi-charging-battery-temp-t2544768
If you look at the version specifications you see that version 1.2 of the "low power" Qi charging branch which phones are a part of increased the power to up to 15W.
Unless they also worked on the efficiency this would actually mean that version 1.2 does more damage to the battery than 1.0 and 1.1, but for that you would have to dive a bit deeper than the information given in that link.
But as always it's sort of subjective as to what point people will see wireless charging as being too wasteful and/or damaging.
Personally, I don't care because the convenience of wireless charging by far outways the little damage it does to a battery, in my opinion, and the same goes for QuickCharge as well. By the time I would see a noticeable effect on battery life I have probably already bought a new phone anyway
If we take Qualcomms QuickCharge for example,I think QC 3.0 is at the point of where people shouldn't really care about the negative impact. If you read the spec sheet for QC 3.0 it's basically a tweaked version of QC 2.0 (well duh) where the power delivery is controlled much better than QC 2.0 was, bringing both the efficiency and therefor speed to a much higher level even though both are rated for 18W.
Some reading for those who still doubt basic physics :
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_without_wires
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/all_about_chargers
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers
..and the best of all: https://google.com/
But let me ask you the same question you asked me; and I quote:
nonyhaha said:
Are you joking? What is your answer based on?
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..that probably sounded very condescending (which is not how it was intended, of course), but I'm curious as to where you've acquired this absurd idea that Qi wireless charging is the best method of all? It's very likely the worst of all, actually.
There is almost no heat dissipated for QC3.0
For me quick charging is a big help, saves hours, if you have a large QC battery or powerbank especially. Yotaphone battery charges especially quickly with QC charger.
"..Wireless charging is way less efficient than any form of wired charging..."
Yes, because you convert first AC 110v or 240v to a lover voltage, f.e DC 5v with an efficiency of maybe 85%.
Then this 5v DC are chopped to a long wave ac voltage (about 19v / 110 to205 kHz) and sends to a cooper coil in the QI transmitter.
There the energy goes as a by a resonant inductive couppling (magnetic field) through a air gap to the QI receiver - again wit an efficiency of perhaps 70%.
The magnetic induction in the receiver coil delivers us again long wave ac voltage which is converted into adequate DC voltage (again efficiency about 70%).
So frankly speaking you may tell a bit of truth regarding losses converted to heat - but this heat ocures everywhere, but not in the Li-Po batteries. It does only in the last step: conversion of electrical energy into a chemical process inside of Li-Po.
Take a look to a label on your QI Charger and you will notice something like following: Input 5V/2a, Output 5V/1A (loss of 50%)
Almost all lithium batteries have their own charging controllers on board which take care of the correct charging parameters. Those controllers are adjusted to charge and also quick charge li-po batteries in the right manner.
Enough theory.
Just follow the electrical way:
in case of direct charger: USB-connector ->copper wire -> Smartphone -> copper wire->LiPo
in case of QI charger: USB Connector->copper coil->air gap->copper coil->copper wire-> LiPo
so there's no basic difference how the LiPo is connected to the power - in both cases by a copper wire
in both cases you can charge with lets say 5v/1A (of course LiPo will be charged with their own characteristical voltage and currents)
modern LiPos are built for a life of 700 bis 1000 charging cycles (about 2 years), and nobody knows if a LiPo would live longer by charging him slowly.
You can charge your smartphone in a fridge to prevent high temperatures.
USB devices are smart, they negotiate themselves by a protocol regarding the charge load. There is no danger to take a Smartphone with capability to be charged with 1.4 amps and connect it to a charger with a 2.1 amp.
You should take more care of the USB cable - it should be able to pass those required Amps to the devices.
Yes less efficient and worse for battery, maybe takes a few minutes more to charge, costs a little more to charge. But its much more pleasing not to use cables and very impressive too. I love wireless charging.
Amplificator said:
My answer is based on simple physics.
Just because the amps are lower doesn't mean it's not bad for the battery.
Wireless charging is way less efficient than any form of wired charging.
What happens to the loss? Well, it gets dissipated as heat - and what is the "big killer" of lithium batteries? ..heat.
For this single fact alone, denying that wireless charging causes more harm than a cabled charging is simply.. well, silly.
The only ones denying this are either unaware of simple science or are lying to you, probably to sell you a charger
Yes, every form of charging, even at a theoretical 100% efficiency will heat up the battery due to chemical reactions inside the battery, but the lower efficiency you have the more energy is converted into heat - thus you do more damage and getting even less actual battery-energy out of it.
Simply put: the best charging method is the one that produces the least amount of heat while maintaining a high efficiency - wireless charging is simply not that.
Charging using a cable at 90% means 10% is being converted into heat (not all 10%, but for arguments sake, play along), where as using wireless charging might be at.. 50% depending on different circumstances (probably a lot closer to 70% than 50%, but again, for arguments sake).
This means that the other 50% is just turned into wasted, unnecessary and unwanted heat.
The percentages obviously aren't correct in this example, but it's more to get the point across.
With wireless charging you do more damage (it is subjective as to whether this matters to you) to the battery than you would by using a cable, simply because you create more excessive heat which only purpose is to heat up the battery and surrounding area than actually going into the battery itself.
If we consider the 50% efficiency of the before mentioned example, this means that you would need to charge your device for almost twice as long time as when you use a cable. Not only does it create more heat by virtue of being inductive charging, but it will be doing so for, again, almost twice the time length.
Efficiency also depends on things like distance - the less "perfect" your phone is placed on the charger the less efficient, and thus more wasteful it is.
Google something like "qi wireless charging overheating" and you will see plenty of people reporting on overheating problems when using wireless charging. This is because of all this wasted energy that is dissipated as heat - instead of "filling" the battery it simply heats it, and the surroundings, up.
Despite being made to the same specs, this seem to differ from charger to charger, such as this thread here on XDA would indicate: http://forum.xda-developers.com/google-nexus-5/help/post-qi-charging-battery-temp-t2544768
If you look at the version specifications you see that version 1.2 of the "low power" Qi charging branch which phones are a part of increased the power to up to 15W.
Unless they also worked on the efficiency this would actually mean that version 1.2 does more damage to the battery than 1.0 and 1.1, but for that you would have to dive a bit deeper than the information given in that link.
But as always it's sort of subjective as to what point people will see wireless charging as being too wasteful and/or damaging.
Personally, I don't care because the convenience of wireless charging by far outways the little damage it does to a battery, in my opinion, and the same goes for QuickCharge as well. By the time I would see a noticeable effect on battery life I have probably already bought a new phone anyway
If we take Qualcomms QuickCharge for example,I think QC 3.0 is at the point of where people shouldn't really care about the negative impact. If you read the spec sheet for QC 3.0 it's basically a tweaked version of QC 2.0 (well duh) where the power delivery is controlled much better than QC 2.0 was, bringing both the efficiency and therefor speed to a much higher level even though both are rated for 18W.
Some reading for those who still doubt basic physics :
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_without_wires
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/all_about_chargers
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers
..and the best of all: https://google.com/
But let me ask you the same question you asked me; and I quote:
..that probably sounded very condescending (which is not how it was intended, of course), but I'm curious as to where you've acquired this absurd idea that Qi wireless charging is the best method of all? It's very likely the worst of all, actually.
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So you really think you know what you are saying there...
Heat dissipation will happen ONLY on the emitter part. So no heating on the recetor coil as well as no heating in the phone. I thinl ypu have to get your facts straight.
Because wireless charging coils run on such low amperage this will nevver become a problem of overheating.
As you said before me, you should get your phisics knowlege up to date. I am already a graduate with a phisics degree.
nonyhaha said:
So you really think you know what you are saying there...
Heat dissipation will happen ONLY on the emitter part. So no heating on the recetor coil as well as no heating in the phone. I thinl ypu have to get your facts straight.
Because wireless charging coils run on such low amperage this will nevver become a problem of overheating.
As you said before me, you should get your phisics knowlege up to date. I am already a graduate with a phisics degree.
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Yes, I do think I know what I'm talking about - but luckily you came to the rescue and used your alleged physics degree to write a reply that proved me wrong with all of your facts, right?
Oh, no.. you didn't - you just doubled down instead, well done.
It doesn't matter (and is not important in this case) where the heat dissipation happens (and never did I claim it happened at the receiver - only that it happens) - the battery is still being heated up regardless, due to the energy loss.
If someone with an alleged physics degree keeps denying that the battery is heated up accordingly to my previous post then I doubt that you finished at the top of your class, if at all, sorry. I would really like to see all your evidence you have against what I wrote in my previous post (and that tons of people are posting about on the interwebz).
Just give it a go on Google, such as this thread from XDA: http://forum.xda-developers.com/google-nexus-5/help/post-qi-charging-battery-temp-t2544768
You can even do a simple charging test of your own, just compare battery temperatures while using a Qi wireless charger, QC2.0 and another at 1A.
Are everyone posting about high temperatures while using Qi chargers lying? Why would they do that? ..maybe the wired-charging-mafia are paying people to discredit WPC and other groups.. hm, maybe.
Yeah, it's getting a bit ridiculous, but silly claims require silly responses, sorry
If you can actually prove what I was saying in my previous post is wrong then I'll gladly accept it, but I do not take "na-ah, not true" with any degree of seriousness and neither do I give credit to claims of physics degrees. In that case I'm an ESA astronaut currently in space - see where this is going?
I go by what you actually write, not what you claim. The only reason for boasting about alleged degrees is to divert attention from the lack of any credible proof - disprove what my previous post said and I'll gladly accept it.
Ok, so my Yotaphone 2 charger has quick charge ability, as does my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 charger and car charger.
Despite all of these chargers having fast charging ability and my Samsung Note 4 fast charging perfectly with all of them, none of them appear to fast charge my Yotaphone 2......
It's at 63% charged right now and whether I plug it into a non QC charger or any of my quick chargers, it's saying 55 minutes until fully charged.
I've looked through the settings pages and can't find a way to enable quick charge on my Yotaphone like I could on my Note 4 battery page.
I'm running a Gearbest supplied YD206 which I flashed to the RU 134 ROM (so it's now showing as a YD201)
Am I missing something?
Any ideas/replies would be greatly appreciated!
Yotaphone 2 charger should indicate active quick charging by ligthing up "Yotaphone" with white LEDs on the charger. If its charging with 5V only your charger doesn't light up.
I don't think that theres something wrong with your phone. Just that charging estimation is inaccurate (at the moment).
Well my chargers Yotaphone logo is lighting up, so I guess it's working then. Thanks for the reply ?
I've had to put the two pin Yotaphone charger block into a three pin UK adaptor to try it. Annoyingly & worryingly it buzzes a lot & quite loudly - is that the same for everyone?
zippyioa said:
Ok, so my Yotaphone 2 charger has quick charge ability, as does my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 charger and car charger.
Despite all of these chargers having fast charging ability and my Samsung Note 4 fast charging perfectly with all of them, none of them appear to fast charge my Yotaphone 2......
It's at 63% charged right now and whether I plug it into a non QC charger or any of my quick chargers, it's saying 55 minutes until fully charged.
I've looked through the settings pages and can't find a way to enable quick charge on my Yotaphone like I could on my Note 4 battery page.
I'm running a Gearbest supplied YD206 which I flashed to the RU 134 ROM (so it's now showing as a YD201)
Am I missing something?
Any ideas/replies would be greatly appreciated!
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Perhaps something wrong is with the cable, not the charger. Something like that happened to me sometime ago - when I used some different cable QC works again.
I had already tried three different chargers and two different cables
If the earlier post about the Yotaphone charger lighting up is correct, I think the phone is quick charging ok.
I guess I was expecting something similar to my Note 4 where it actually stated "fast charging" in the battery menu if I was charging it with a QC.
That message would then change to "charging" if I used a standard charger instead.
I bought a new powerbank, it seems to charge other phones ok but NOT the yotaphone. The powerbank displays the percentage charge for about 10 seconds then display goes off, but so does the yotaphone charging. Other phones and gadgets don't go off. Anyone else have this?
Powerbank is QC3.0. I have tried using different cables, always same.
Sometimes it charges OK. I thought my powerbank was fake until I found it charged other gadgets well.
I also noticed that YotaPhone2 sometimes doesn't want to charge. I just plug it in (cable&charger original), the YotaPhone logo lights up but the phone just doesn't charge! I will try with my power bank and see what happens.
I haven't understood the cause yet, maybe it's because mine has unlocked bootloader, TWRP, root, xposed. (YD206)
I read that charger I got with the phone is quick charge and wears down the battery, I noticed it charges super fast and I've been using it for a few months now, but I plan on keeping this phone for a while, so I wanna preserve my battery, what kind of charger/adapter do I need to charge my le pro 3 normally? I didn't get anything else with the phone. I've got "input 100-240V 50/60Hz 150mA output: 5V 1000mA" adapter where I plug the usb cable into it and the other side to the phone and then the adapter in the outlet, I noticed it charges super slowly like 20-25% an hour or something, is that good? I don't really understand how these things work
Bump, still using this charger, I'm planning to order new battery from aliexpress so this is great time to reask this questions, maybe someone knows...
JustJoe123 said:
Bump, still using this charger, I'm planning to order new battery from aliexpress so this is great time to reask this questions, maybe someone knows...
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A normal charger that does 5v 2 amps will give your battery a nice, long life. The stock LeEco charger can go to insanely high power level which has caused the death of many LeEco phones. If you want a safe quick charger, dump the factory charger and buy a third party one from known companies like Baseus. I understand Baseus also have cables with built-in protection circuits.
Charging fast will not damage the battery. If the phone gets heated over 45C when charging that can shorten the lifetime.
But if you install LineageOS 16 you can disable quick charge and enable it when you need it, so you don't have to worry about chargers etc. anymore then.
I am not sure if it is wise to order a new battery. AFAIK you need to remove the screen etc. to replace it. It is a complicated process and you may end up with a brick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3wQr5IKiRA
I'm just considering replacing the battery on my daughter's le pro 3 - x720, It's a daunting task but it needs to be changed I will not be documenting the procedure but I will post anything I feel is relevant on the forums
(Once I find a suitable replacement battery)
Hello Guys,
Everyone know that is not good to our phones battery use other chargers that is not from Samsung. So, my question is: is safe to use power bank ? If yes, wich one is recomended for our phone ?
Sorry my bad english :cyclops:
I have the ravpower 26800mah usb-c version. Power banks work just fine with my s8. I've used multiple ones also.
Using this powerbank, the S8 charger fast ? And the battery life is good charging with powerbank ?
Tony_Starkus said:
Using this powerbank, the S8 charger fast ? And the battery life is good charging with powerbank ?
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I use a couple power banks I have. One being a 12,000 mah battery on a flashlight I have.But it only charges at regular 5 volt speeds...
I use a Choetech 6 ports usb hub 50 watts total and it charges = to or better than samsungs power blocks
In the end it depends on the output capacities of the charger source and capabilities of the Usb cable As long as its advertised power out put is that or greater than Samsungs fast charge should work just fine
If I use any charger that isn't from Samsung, the phone will tell me, but I use the Anker powerCore 20100mAh, works really well, chargers my phone like a normal charger, but lately I've been having trouble charging it at a good speed(with 30% it gives me 4hours to fully charge), only using the power bank gives me this problem, and only my phone. I've tried talking with the support of both companies, they blame the other. Still turning it off chargers it extremely fast.
https://www.anker.com/store/powercore-20100/A1271012