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Good day,
For the new battery owners and frequent questions of charging and prolonging/maintaining your battery.
Here are some information from other websites. Just for the sake of laziness and Google-ing :highfive:
I know most of you guys already knows this. Yes, I know. These are reminders that you should.
Please do not flame or criticize my thread. I am just here to help. Thank you!
1.) It's not necessary to charge over 12 hours when first used. When a device powered by batteries is purchased, sellers will usually tell us the batteries must first be charged 12 hours before using. Actually, this is unnecessary. Unlike common Ni-CD or Ni-MH batteries, most lithium ion batteries have been activated before leaving the factory. Due to its low self-discharge, it’s unnecessary to charge lithium ion battery for such a long time when new. Lithium ion batteries are ready for use after the charger indicates so, and it will reach its best capacity after 3 or 5 cycles
2.) Don’t use an inappropriate charger. Many people care greatly about their electronic gadgets, but often neglect the consequences of bad chargers on their lithium ion batteries. When choosing a charger, the original charger is the best choice. If that's unavailable, a high quality charger that has an over charge protection function, or a brand name charger will do. A low quality battery charger can lead to shorter run times, premature battery failure, or even cause a fire or explosion.
3.) Avoid touching metal contacts. All batteries' contacts need to be kept clean for best performance. Do not let battery contacts touch metal objects such as keys when carrying them around, it can cause a short circuit, damaging the battery or potentially resulting in a fire or an explosion.
4.) Avoid often use in high or low temperature environment. Lithium ion batteries have an optimal working and storage temperature. If they're continually used an extreme temperature environment, it will negatively affect the lithium ion battery’s use time and useful cycles.
5.) Avoid long time without use or recharge. If you don't need to use your personal electronic gadgets for a long time where the lithium ion battery might be to left unused for 3 months or more, partially recharge the lithium ion battery, then store the device (recharge the battery to around 30-70% of capacity, depending on storage time) to prevent battery damage. You may need to take the device out of storage and charge again after a few months.
6.) Avoid use lithium ion battery which is hot after being fully charged. Temperatures can be very high after the battery is freshly recharged. If you use it immediately, the electronic gadget’s internal temperature will rise, and can negatively affect the device's electronic components.
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XDA Users' Recommendation:
@apallohadas
DO NOT turn off your phone to charge the battery. This is completely unnecessary as the protection is built into the battery, not the phone.
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@adytum
Nice thread, and thank god you didn't mention anything about wiping battery stats
To prevent confusion, I suggest you remove the part about overcharging in case of lacking overcharge protection, since practically every phone has it, and thus prevent the type of semantic discussion that was going on here.
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@m4xwellmurd3r
I wanted to add that I think the reason people think they need to charge the phone, then turn it off and charge it more and repeat comes from older android phones. The OG Evo was very bad with its battery stats and even if the phone was discharging it would continue to state 100% when it was plugged in. A bad cable caused my girlfriends phone to drain low enough that it couldnt be charged in the phone because the os never thought it was below 100%.
The old evo would shut off its charge circuit at 100% and kick it back on at 90%, but never show that it had discharged any. This resulted in massive percieved drain after unplugging the phone.
By charging it to 100 while on, unplugging and turning off, then charging back up while off, and repeating the process till the charging to charged indicator had a shortened delay, the battery would last longer because it calibrated not the battery, but androids internal battery states that indicated what its true 100% mark was.
But the systems ability to learn what voltages indicate 100% and 0% have become much better from what I can tell, and using that outdated method to force android to learn the min max points is now pointless.
The other issue was the old evo didnt trickle charge. From 100% it totally kicked the charge circuit off, and at 90% kicked it back on, while never reporting anything below 100% when the cable was plugged in.
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Question:
If I am not going to use my battery for a long period of time, what should I do?
Answer:
Be sure the battery is above 40%
Put the battery in an air sealed zip locked bag and place it inside the refrigerator but not the freezer!
This will slow down the deterioration of the battery.
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Credits to:
WikiHow
XDA-Developers
CandlePowerForums
Google
Applications To Give You Better Battery Life
Greenify
Greenify helps you identify and put the bad behaving apps into hibernation when you are not using them, to stop them from lagging your device and leeching the battery, in an unique way! They can do nothing without explicit launch by you or other apps, while still preserving full functionality when running in foreground, similar to iOS apps!
DisableService
Disable Service helps you to disable services running in the background such as "push service" ,"upload service" or "pull ad service" and so on.
Wakelock Detector
”Wakelock Detector” helps you to detect battery consuming applications in your Android device by checking wakelock usage history. Now you can find out which applications drain your battery in a simple way by using this app!
SystemCleanup
*best system / cache cleaner in market ;o) hold your system clean and free of bloatware. disable autostart / autorun of apps and services. Also tells what applications are safe to freeze with descriptions.
Applications suggested by @Memphis_
Autorun Manager
Autorun Manager (formerly Autorun Killer) is an ultimate tool that lets you disable all the autostarting apps you don't need. Unfortunately this app is misunderstood many times so please read help carefully and/or mail the developer if you have questions.
Autostarts
Keep control over your phone: See what applications do behind your back.
Shows you what apps run on phone startup, and what other events trigger in the background. Root users can disable unwanted autostarts and speed up their phone boot.
I would add:
DO NOT turn off your phone to charge the battery. This is completely unnecessary as the protection is built into the battery, not the phone.
apallohadas said:
I would add:
DO NOT turn off your phone to charge the battery. This is completely unnecessary as the protection is built into the battery, not the phone.
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Thanks. Added to the OP.
Simone said:
Thanks. Added to the OP.
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Define over charging
ksc6000 said:
Define over charging
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Continuous charging of the battery after it reaches full charge.
Generally, overcharging will have a harmful influence on the performance of the battery which could lead to unsafe conditions.
It should therefore be avoided.
Simone said:
Continuous charging of the battery after it reaches full charge.
Generally, overcharging will have a harmful influence on the performance of the battery which could lead to unsafe conditions.
It should therefore be avoided.
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Not to belittle the intent of the contribution and all, but you contradict yourself, and the majority of the info provided is completely inapplicable to the application.
It's dismaying to see battery technology reduced to superstitious ritual.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
G.Reaper said:
Not to belittle the intent of the contribution and all, but you contradict yourself, and the majority of the info provided is completely inapplicable to the application.
It's dismaying to see battery technology reduced to superstitious ritual.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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I'm actually trying to get out of the ritual.
G.Reaper said:
Not to belittle the intent of the contribution and all, but you contradict yourself, and the majority of the info provided is completely inapplicable to the application.
It's dismaying to see battery technology reduced to superstitious ritual.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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Actually, the majority is pretty spot on and does much to get people away from the rituals of draining batteries unnecessarily and other practices meant for other battery technologies.
You could be helpful by constructively adding, you know.
apallohadas said:
Actually, the majority is pretty spot on and does much to get people away from the rituals of draining batteries unnecessarily and other practices meant for other battery technologies.
You could be helpful by constructively adding, you know.
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Just because you asked so nicely.
Simone said:
2.) Don’t use an inappropriate charger. Many people care greatly about their electronic gadgets, but often neglect the consequences of bad chargers on their lithium ion batteries. When choosing a charger, the original charger is the best choice. If that's unavailable, a high quality charger that has an over charge protection function, or a brand name charger will do. A low quality battery charger can lead to shorter run times, premature battery failure, or even cause a fire or explosion.
3.) Avoid frequently over charging. Over charging with a low quality charger may let the battery's interior rise to a high temperature, which is bad for the lithium ion battery and charger. Thus, simply fully charging is good enough - overcharging will make your lithium battery into a little bomb if over charge protection function is missing.
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and
Simone said:
Continuous charging of the battery after it reaches full charge.
Generally, overcharging will have a harmful influence on the performance of the battery which could lead to unsafe conditions.
It should therefore be avoided.
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are at odds.
I'd be interested to see your source(s) for the charging behavior of the integrated circuitry once the battery is full and the negative impacts thereof. I'm not saying that overcharging a cell isn't bad. But the battery in your phone has ic, regulating the exposure to the cell. Meaning that given that self-discharge is a characteristic of Li ion batteries, overcharge doesn't seem to be a likely concern.
Additionally, if the protection ic is in the battery, why would you need a charger with built in charge protection? This is info from hobby cells, which are bare Li ion cells. You really think the usb wall wart samsung ships you is anything more than an ac to dc, step down voltage converter? I'm open to evidence to the contrary.
The danger in Li ion is typically in in over discharge, and in charging too quickly, resulting in a cycle of increasing uncontrolled internal resistance, potentially causing combustion. The charge rate should be protected by the battery's ic, and as the battery will say it's empty before breaching the threshold of damaging discharge, it just translates to "don't leave the thing alone in a drawer for a long time with no charge", which you effectively covered.
And what's not mentioned, is that no matter what you do, no matter the obsessive charging ritual you observe, current Li ion technologies will see a roughly 10% decrease in performance per year.
Don't worry about your battery and charge it as much as you want over charge it at night. Then buy a new one a year later after that one you will have a new phone. No worries.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app
dazza7111 said:
Don't worry about your battery and charge it as much as you want over charge it at night. Then buy a new one a year later after that one you will have a new phone. No worries.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app
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Exactly!
G.Reaper said:
Just because you asked so nicely.
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I ask because it's easier to be sarcastic on the internet than to be helpful.
I'd be interested to see your source(s) for the charging behavior of the integrated circuitry once the battery is full and the negative impacts thereof. I'm not saying that overcharging a cell isn't bad. But the battery in your phone has ic, regulating the exposure to the cell. Meaning that given that self-discharge is a characteristic of Li ion batteries, overcharge doesn't seem to be a likely concern.
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Normally I would agree, but some of the overcharging advice I've seen here includes charging the phone to full, then shutting it off, and letting it charge for hours longer. All in an attempt to circumvent safeguards. Weird yes, ritualistic, sure, will Samsung get blamed if the battery melts? Definitely.
Pretty good article on Lithium based batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
The danger in Li ion is typically in in over discharge, and in charging too quickly, resulting in a cycle of increasing uncontrolled internal resistance, potentially causing combustion. The charge rate should be protected by the battery's ic, and as the battery will say it's empty before breaching the threshold of damaging discharge, it just translates to "don't leave the thing alone in a drawer for a long time with no charge", which you effectively covered.
And what's not mentioned, is that no matter what you do, no matter the obsessive charging ritual you observe, current Li ion technologies will see a roughly 10% decrease in performance per year.
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And what you said fairly agrees with the article. (Depending on charging habits of course.)
apallohadas said:
Normally I would agree, but some of the overcharging advice I've seen here includes charging the phone to full, then shutting it off, and letting it charge for hours longer. All in an attempt to circumvent safeguards. Weird yes, ritualistic, sure, will Samsung get blamed if the battery melts? Definitely.
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That won't really do anything. Logically, if the phone's off, there won't be a load on the battery, thus it's free to charge at the maximum rate as controlled by the ic. But, that doesn't mean it'll end up any different at 100% from charging with the phone on.
Again I reference the fact that the battery contains the control circuitry, not the phone.
G.Reaper said:
That won't really do anything. Logically, if the phone's off, there won't be a load on the battery, thus it's free to charge at the maximum rate as controlled by the ic. But, that doesn't mean it'll end up any different at 100% from charging with the phone on.
Again I reference the fact that the battery contains the control circuitry, not the phone.
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I don't recall saying anything to the contrary.
apallohadas said:
I don't recall saying anything to the contrary.
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You wrote "DO NOT turn off the phone while charging" - it doesn't matter whether you do or not.
Anyway, my point was just that points 2 and 3 are wrong given the application and should be omitted as they taint the rest of the information.
G.Reaper said:
You wrote "DO NOT turn off the phone while charging" - it doesn't matter whether you do or not.
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I responded directly to your statement:
you said:
Again I reference the fact that the battery contains the control circuitry, not the phone.
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At least attempt to not misquote me. It's like you argue just to argue even when in agreement.
If you don't like the thread, rate it 1 star and just keep on moving.
That simple.
G.Reaper said:
I'd be interested to see your source(s) for the charging behavior of the integrated circuitry once the battery is full and the negative impacts thereof. I'm not saying that overcharging a cell isn't bad. But the battery in your phone has ic, regulating the exposure to the cell. Meaning that given that self-discharge is a characteristic of Li ion batteries, overcharge doesn't seem to be a likely concern.
Additionally, if the protection ic is in the battery, why would you need a charger with built in charge protection? This is info from hobby cells, which are bare Li ion cells. You really think the usb wall wart samsung ships you is anything more than an ac to dc, step down voltage converter? I'm open to evidence to the contrary.
The danger in Li ion is typically in in over discharge, and in charging too quickly, resulting in a cycle of increasing uncontrolled internal resistance, potentially causing combustion. The charge rate should be protected by the battery's ic, and as the battery will say it's empty before breaching the threshold of damaging discharge, it just translates to "don't leave the thing alone in a drawer for a long time with no charge", which you effectively covered.
And what's not mentioned, is that no matter what you do, no matter the obsessive charging ritual you observe, current Li ion technologies will see a roughly 10% decrease in performance per year.
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I second that. Android devices en mass use integrated chargers and protected batteries. In that case using cheap charger could possibly demage buildin charger rather than battery itself.
And almost all wall chargers for phone and tablets are simple power source. An modern one with ac-dc IC regulators but still act as ordinary power source.
Wysyłane z mojego GT-N7100 za pomocą Tapatalk 2
dazza7111 said:
Don't worry about your battery and charge it as much as you want over charge it at night. Then buy a new one a year later after that one you will have a new phone. No worries.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app
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I agree 100%.
Although most advices in the OP are correct I don't agree there is a thing like "overcharging" - there is a circuity to prevent charging when the battery is fully charged.
So avoid myths, just use your device, batteries are not that expensive
Hello friends,
So I just got my Note 4 and i'm wondering how long should I keep it in charge for the first time? And should I drain it on first use or charge it when it's at let's say 20%??
Thanks in advance.
14 hrs, dont drain, battery should be between 20-80% before charging in normal use, fast charge off.
@zurkx
Thanks for the reply.
Are you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
XeroHertZ said:
@zurkxAre you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
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Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
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Thanks Chefprol.I have done some research on charging the battery and have come to a conclusion that once it's charged I can use it straight away but and then drain it to 18 to 20% then charge it fully.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
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Thanks ! i tought it would be a old myth to first drain the batery and then fully load it but as far as i know its only with old phones and mp3 players and such.
hope i will get my note 4 today ! waiting for it since monday
Fast Charge is not really a useful feature for me, it just hurts the battery more in the long run
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
There's no need to condition the battery, its a lithium battery.
If you're having battery drain issues I would suggest you clear your data cache.
ddaharu said:
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
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this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Who's post are you referring to?
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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arjun90 said:
Who's post are you referring to?
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It's mine. That guy already bumped into me a while ago, now it's time for his revenge.
I'll care for that, now...
---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
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So here we go; you asked for it...
My critism about the Note 4 refers to it's GPS receiver, which is "deaf" compared to the competition and shows frequent signal drops.
More here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/gps-close-to-unusable-t2948602
dont listen to fools.
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Indeed - have a look:
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
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I already advised to realize this is 2014 battery technology, not the ancient batteries of the past.
Short: There is no "trickle charge" with Lithium-Ion-batteries.
See this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries - quote: "The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge."
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that.
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Quote: "The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less."
"C" is the capacity, 3220 mAh with our Note 4's battery. So we're save to charge with a current (milliamperes, "mA") of up to 3220 mA - if we follow the manufacturer's advice for the older type of batteries of that kind (18650 is an old warrior in the field), there's still 2576 A left.
So what does our fast charge supply deliver ? Look at it's ratings: 5 V, 2 A (2000 mA).
So even fast charge is far below the limits - our real limit is 3220 mA, but fast charging just uses 2000 mA.
Sound and safe.
Wonder about me highlighting "higher voltage" in zurkx's highly elaborate statement in red ? - Answer is above: The voltage does NOT change, it is NOT higher. Of course not !
The worst enemies of LiIon batteries are heat and age.
Heat is generated by a) placing the device at a hot spot (like behind the car's windscreen or in bright sunlight), b) by using demanding features like 4K video recording or highend games, c) by charging .
a) Your call. Just don't let your Note get hot. Overheating destroys your battery in no time. We're lucky we've got an exchangeable battery - so nothing to really worry about.
b) Your call. See a).
c) Charging produces some heat, especially on the "last mile", when the battery is "almost full", because the battery is a bit reluctant of getting charged up to the brim. So more heat is generated in that last phase. It's not much, won't reach the safety limits. It just can't, because the build-in charging circuits limits the current if heat gets up.
By the way: That integrated charging circuits are propped with safety measures, checking charge, condition, temperature and the like.
So even if you hook up a charger capable of providing 20 whopping amperes, the circuits just won't let that happen.
There is no way of providing the battery too much current; it's automatically limited.
best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life.
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Again; welcome to the 21st century. We don't need any slow charge. It's the opposite.
Charging right slow has the danger that apps on the phone draw more power than the charge provides. That may drain your battery instead of filling it.
Plus: If you hook up the charger for long, it will be recharged (charge gets "topped off") frequenly. And every new charging attempt has a slightly negative impact on the battery's life; it's like wearing it a bit down. - Charge often, reduce your battery's life. That damage is tiny, by the way. But it is there, so hooking up your charger for many hours slowly kills your battery.
Now for the aging:
if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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LiIon battery ARE AGING, up from the time of manufacture.
You all know that: You charge a device like you're told by the instructions - but after 1 to 3 years you notice a severe drop of usage time, a drop of capacity.
That's aging.
NOTHING you can do against that but buying a new battery.
So your battery will lose it's capacity over time; if you use it or not. You all know that, you all experienced that.
With the Note 4, we can happily buy a new battery if the old one runs out; it's that simple. But as a normal Li Ion battery reaches it's shelf live after 2 or 3 years anyway, there's NO (!) need of burdening it and you with slow charge. The results are exactly the same, with the difference that you save precious time with fast charging.
And now allow me quoting again:
dont listen to fools.
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Have a nice day, all of you except one.
youre completely wrong.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-explained-563838/
Quick Charge 2.0
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Snapdragon 200, 400, 410, 615, 800, 801, 805
The rest is just BS as usual. You have no idea what youre talking about. Dumping 9V (Samsung Note 4 AFC) into a 5V battery makes it charge hotter and faster and degrades it significantly. After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
just bad advice as usual.
zurkx said:
youre completely wrong.
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Yes, indeed. I was completely wrong by believing you'd understand some simple things.
In fact, I am not sure if I should take your statements for serious or just for a joke.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
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So you REALLY believe that changes of the output voltage of the POWER SUPPLY lead to the BATTERY charged with more volts ?
You can't be serious. That's technically impossible.
Let's put it easy:
If you insert your power supply into a 110 V receptacle in the USA, you get 5 V output.
So according to your "logic", using the same power supply in Europe (230 V) increases the voltage to 10 V ?
No. Just NO.
That higher POWER SUPPLY voltage is used for fulfilling the rule W = V * A (Watt = Volt * Ampere); just to be able to squeeze more power through the power supply's cable.
In the Note 4 and in the charging circuit, that voltage OF COURSE will be regulated down to the regular charging voltage - just with the benefit to carry more amperes.
So the CHARGING VOLTAGE stays the same; it does NOT follow the voltage supplied by the POWER SUPPLY. It never does.
So fast charging does NOT (read that: NOT !) increase the charging voltage. It cannot.
Got that now ? - Or do I need to put it ever more simple ?
It does not help using swearing words like "fool" or "bull****".
But it could help just saying: "Oh, sorry, I was wrong. - My apologies."
Make yourself at home with the basics of lithium ion and charging technology. THEN speak up.
Ah, overlooked something:
After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
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1) Hope that chunk fell somewhere you were able to pick it up again.
2) How to you KNOW that ? I expect a detailled description about how you did the magic of finding out that your battery doesn't charge to 100 %.
3) If you KNEW that fast charging would kill your battery, wise man - why did you allegedly use the feature ? - Sorry, man... Your statements are not very trustworthy. I guess you never used that feature, just say so to strengthen your shaky point of view. Please don't mess with a perception psychologist.
4) If your battery really suffered, that might be due to your highly acclaimed and absolutely pointless 14-hours-charging-marathons, causing a permanent charge on/charge off cycle, weakening your battery.
So please just stop bashing a real useful feature of the Note 4. If you just love waiting ages for batteries to charge - your preference. But please stop spreading false facts about things you very obviously are not at home with.
And a last thing which might stop that aimless harassing fire of yours: I am HAM, a licenced amateur radio operator, holding the highest German licence class. These are the people who know a bit about volts and amperes.
how hard is it for you to understand that quickcharge 2.0 outputs higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE to charge the battery ? The charger charges the BATTERY AT 9V 1.67A up to 50% and then switches over to the regular 5V 2A charge rate. INPUT VOLTAGE (110V or 230V) has nothing to do with OUTPUT VOLTAGE. It charges the battery at 9V REGARDLESS of INPUT VOLTAGE.
edit:
also it has nothing to do with the cable. you must be crazy if you think a cable issue exists whether you transfer 15W or 10W across it. the cable is rated for well beyond that. the reason for the higher voltage is that modern lithium ions can accept high voltage charge rates with limited damage at low amperage. the reason they cut it off at 50% is the battery would be severely damaged if you tried to charge it to 100% and overshot. so yes quickcharge 2.0 really does charge your battery at a higher voltage than it was designed to be charged at. and no they dont have a magical transformer on your phone to go from 9V to 5V. otherwise they would be using it all the time and fast charge 9V to 100%. the wall plug is the only thing which has a transformer and the phone uses what it gets from there. they arent going to build half of another wall plug (9V DC-DC) and stuff it into the phone. it would generate heat and add bulk. Instead the PMIC "spikes" the battery with higher voltage and keeps it roughly constant (load modulation) by communicating with the quickcharge 2.0 AFC on the other end.
Hopeless.
I just love these battery threads, there's always some muppet who says the battery needs conditioning and must first be charged for a suitably ridiculous length of time. When it's charged it's charged, lithium batteries have no memory effect so the idea of conditioning them is moronic
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app
yes they have no memory effect. why ? because you say so.
other people believe otherwise because they actually test things out for themselves :
http://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries
http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
no need to keep it for 14 hours, as they said in the catalog you only need to charge it till it's full, then unplug the charger.
Hello again !
After all cooled down a bit, here's some more information about that dreaded HIGH VOLTAGE fast charging uses which seemingly makes some of you wet your pants.
First, there's an experiment you can do yourself. You don't need to do - but it's quite impressive and gives you some proof of the things I say.
Get two 9 V batteries; the small rectangle ones we all know. Connect the positive contact of the first battery with the negative contact of the second. Thus you get an 18 volts DC power source.
Get a thin, isolated wire, short-circuit the open contacts with the wire. Wait.
Nothing special will happen, maybe the wire will get a little warm - and your batteries will eventually die.
(If you use a VERY thing wires, it might heat up.)
Now take a length of the same wire, do the same using your car's battery (12 – 13.8 V DC).
WARNING !
1) Take the battery out of the car, set it on solid ground with nothing combustible near !!! Do NOT try this with the battery still in the car !!!
2) Use pliers to connect the wire with the battery contacts !!!
3) Do that OUTDOORS !!!
Short-circuit the battery contacts using the pliers with the wire.
You don't need to wait. The cable will turn into a smoking, burning, white-hot thing in an instant.
Huh ? - We've got 18 V with just nothing happening, we've got just 12 V wreaking instant havoc and destruction !?
Amperage is the key !
Voltage alone does not cause the destruction, it's the amperage.
9 V batteries cannot provide sufficient amperes for killing the wire; 12 V car batteries do.
Short: High amperage kills wires, high voltage doesn't.
So back to our topic...
To fast charge our Note 4's battery, we need power, watts. But the tiny wires in the Note 4 can't withstand a high wattage; they would heat up like the wire connected to the 12 V car battery.
So Samsung uses a little trick, according to Ohm's law: W = V * A, W is watts, V is volts, A is amperes.
So we can achieve a high wattage by EITHER using a higher voltage OR a higher amperage.
Higher amperage does not work because it will kill the tiny wires in the Note.
So Samsung raised the voltage for carrying more watts from the power supply via the internal Note 4's cabling to the charging circuit.
That higher voltage gets transformed down to the normal charging voltage at the charging circuit.
Your battery is charged with the usual voltage, but with the benefits of a higher amperage.
That's all the magic: That higher voltage is used to carry more wattage to the charging circuit, but not beyond. Nothing else.
And that's why it does not harm your battery; charging voltage will not change - your battery just gets charged faster, always monitored by the charging circuit which will lower the charge accordingly if needed, so your battery will always be safe. That's why the "last mile" (charge from about 92 % to 100 %) takes more time to charge - because the charging circuit automatically lowers the charge to protect your battery.
So don't be afraid of that higher voltage; it never reaches your battery, it is just a means for transferring higher wattage via tiny wires.
Note: You ever wondered why Europeans use 230 V instead of 110 V ? - That's the reason. Being able to carry more watts over regular power lines without risking the wires heating up too much. It's not a means of destruction, it's the opposite.
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
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Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Click to collapse
I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
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Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
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Click to collapse
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.
Maybe this is old news but today I learned that the YotaPhone 2 charger shipped with the phone is actually Qualcomm Quickcharge 2.0 compatible. This means you can also charge other Qualcomm Quickcharge 2.0 compatible phones with it, like my other phone the Moto G4+. Works perfectly.
Yes, I've been using my QuickCharge 3.0 charger and it's charging with 9V ~1,3A.
kbal said:
Yes, I've been using my QuickCharge 3.0 charger and it's charging with 9V ~1,3A.
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Dont, fastcharging will greatly reduce you battery life.
Enviado desde mi SM-N930F mediante Tapatalk
kingtiamath said:
Dont, fastcharging will greatly reduce you battery life.
Enviado desde mi SM-N930F mediante Tapatalk
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Although it is true it reduces your battery life it is only by a small margin, nog greatly.
VirtuaLeech said:
Although it is true it reduces your battery life it is only by a small margin, nog greatly.
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Im afraid it does. I have done many experiments myself and batteries often charged with fastcharge in as little as 6 months give you no more than 70% of its original charge.
Enviado desde mi SM-N930F mediante Tapatalk
..the same goes for wireless charging btw.
Amplificator said:
..the same goes for wireless charging btw.
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Are you joking? What is your answer based on?
Wireless charging runs on a much lower amperage so it should be the best solution to charge your phone.
nonyhaha said:
Are you joking? What is your answer based on?
Wireless charging runs on a much lower amperage so it should be the best solution to charge your phone.
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My answer is based on simple physics.
Just because the amps are lower doesn't mean it's not bad for the battery.
Wireless charging is way less efficient than any form of wired charging.
What happens to the loss? Well, it gets dissipated as heat - and what is the "big killer" of lithium batteries? ..heat.
For this single fact alone, denying that wireless charging causes more harm than a cabled charging is simply.. well, silly.
The only ones denying this are either unaware of simple science or are lying to you, probably to sell you a charger
Yes, every form of charging, even at a theoretical 100% efficiency will heat up the battery due to chemical reactions inside the battery, but the lower efficiency you have the more energy is converted into heat - thus you do more damage and getting even less actual battery-energy out of it.
Simply put: the best charging method is the one that produces the least amount of heat while maintaining a high efficiency - wireless charging is simply not that.
Charging using a cable at 90% means 10% is being converted into heat (not all 10%, but for arguments sake, play along), where as using wireless charging might be at.. 50% depending on different circumstances (probably a lot closer to 70% than 50%, but again, for arguments sake).
This means that the other 50% is just turned into wasted, unnecessary and unwanted heat.
The percentages obviously aren't correct in this example, but it's more to get the point across.
With wireless charging you do more damage (it is subjective as to whether this matters to you) to the battery than you would by using a cable, simply because you create more excessive heat which only purpose is to heat up the battery and surrounding area than actually going into the battery itself.
If we consider the 50% efficiency of the before mentioned example, this means that you would need to charge your device for almost twice as long time as when you use a cable. Not only does it create more heat by virtue of being inductive charging, but it will be doing so for, again, almost twice the time length.
Efficiency also depends on things like distance - the less "perfect" your phone is placed on the charger the less efficient, and thus more wasteful it is.
Google something like "qi wireless charging overheating" and you will see plenty of people reporting on overheating problems when using wireless charging. This is because of all this wasted energy that is dissipated as heat - instead of "filling" the battery it simply heats it, and the surroundings, up.
Despite being made to the same specs, this seem to differ from charger to charger, such as this thread here on XDA would indicate: http://forum.xda-developers.com/google-nexus-5/help/post-qi-charging-battery-temp-t2544768
If you look at the version specifications you see that version 1.2 of the "low power" Qi charging branch which phones are a part of increased the power to up to 15W.
Unless they also worked on the efficiency this would actually mean that version 1.2 does more damage to the battery than 1.0 and 1.1, but for that you would have to dive a bit deeper than the information given in that link.
But as always it's sort of subjective as to what point people will see wireless charging as being too wasteful and/or damaging.
Personally, I don't care because the convenience of wireless charging by far outways the little damage it does to a battery, in my opinion, and the same goes for QuickCharge as well. By the time I would see a noticeable effect on battery life I have probably already bought a new phone anyway
If we take Qualcomms QuickCharge for example,I think QC 3.0 is at the point of where people shouldn't really care about the negative impact. If you read the spec sheet for QC 3.0 it's basically a tweaked version of QC 2.0 (well duh) where the power delivery is controlled much better than QC 2.0 was, bringing both the efficiency and therefor speed to a much higher level even though both are rated for 18W.
Some reading for those who still doubt basic physics :
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_without_wires
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/all_about_chargers
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers
..and the best of all: https://google.com/
But let me ask you the same question you asked me; and I quote:
nonyhaha said:
Are you joking? What is your answer based on?
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..that probably sounded very condescending (which is not how it was intended, of course), but I'm curious as to where you've acquired this absurd idea that Qi wireless charging is the best method of all? It's very likely the worst of all, actually.
There is almost no heat dissipated for QC3.0
For me quick charging is a big help, saves hours, if you have a large QC battery or powerbank especially. Yotaphone battery charges especially quickly with QC charger.
"..Wireless charging is way less efficient than any form of wired charging..."
Yes, because you convert first AC 110v or 240v to a lover voltage, f.e DC 5v with an efficiency of maybe 85%.
Then this 5v DC are chopped to a long wave ac voltage (about 19v / 110 to205 kHz) and sends to a cooper coil in the QI transmitter.
There the energy goes as a by a resonant inductive couppling (magnetic field) through a air gap to the QI receiver - again wit an efficiency of perhaps 70%.
The magnetic induction in the receiver coil delivers us again long wave ac voltage which is converted into adequate DC voltage (again efficiency about 70%).
So frankly speaking you may tell a bit of truth regarding losses converted to heat - but this heat ocures everywhere, but not in the Li-Po batteries. It does only in the last step: conversion of electrical energy into a chemical process inside of Li-Po.
Take a look to a label on your QI Charger and you will notice something like following: Input 5V/2a, Output 5V/1A (loss of 50%)
Almost all lithium batteries have their own charging controllers on board which take care of the correct charging parameters. Those controllers are adjusted to charge and also quick charge li-po batteries in the right manner.
Enough theory.
Just follow the electrical way:
in case of direct charger: USB-connector ->copper wire -> Smartphone -> copper wire->LiPo
in case of QI charger: USB Connector->copper coil->air gap->copper coil->copper wire-> LiPo
so there's no basic difference how the LiPo is connected to the power - in both cases by a copper wire
in both cases you can charge with lets say 5v/1A (of course LiPo will be charged with their own characteristical voltage and currents)
modern LiPos are built for a life of 700 bis 1000 charging cycles (about 2 years), and nobody knows if a LiPo would live longer by charging him slowly.
You can charge your smartphone in a fridge to prevent high temperatures.
USB devices are smart, they negotiate themselves by a protocol regarding the charge load. There is no danger to take a Smartphone with capability to be charged with 1.4 amps and connect it to a charger with a 2.1 amp.
You should take more care of the USB cable - it should be able to pass those required Amps to the devices.
Yes less efficient and worse for battery, maybe takes a few minutes more to charge, costs a little more to charge. But its much more pleasing not to use cables and very impressive too. I love wireless charging.
Amplificator said:
My answer is based on simple physics.
Just because the amps are lower doesn't mean it's not bad for the battery.
Wireless charging is way less efficient than any form of wired charging.
What happens to the loss? Well, it gets dissipated as heat - and what is the "big killer" of lithium batteries? ..heat.
For this single fact alone, denying that wireless charging causes more harm than a cabled charging is simply.. well, silly.
The only ones denying this are either unaware of simple science or are lying to you, probably to sell you a charger
Yes, every form of charging, even at a theoretical 100% efficiency will heat up the battery due to chemical reactions inside the battery, but the lower efficiency you have the more energy is converted into heat - thus you do more damage and getting even less actual battery-energy out of it.
Simply put: the best charging method is the one that produces the least amount of heat while maintaining a high efficiency - wireless charging is simply not that.
Charging using a cable at 90% means 10% is being converted into heat (not all 10%, but for arguments sake, play along), where as using wireless charging might be at.. 50% depending on different circumstances (probably a lot closer to 70% than 50%, but again, for arguments sake).
This means that the other 50% is just turned into wasted, unnecessary and unwanted heat.
The percentages obviously aren't correct in this example, but it's more to get the point across.
With wireless charging you do more damage (it is subjective as to whether this matters to you) to the battery than you would by using a cable, simply because you create more excessive heat which only purpose is to heat up the battery and surrounding area than actually going into the battery itself.
If we consider the 50% efficiency of the before mentioned example, this means that you would need to charge your device for almost twice as long time as when you use a cable. Not only does it create more heat by virtue of being inductive charging, but it will be doing so for, again, almost twice the time length.
Efficiency also depends on things like distance - the less "perfect" your phone is placed on the charger the less efficient, and thus more wasteful it is.
Google something like "qi wireless charging overheating" and you will see plenty of people reporting on overheating problems when using wireless charging. This is because of all this wasted energy that is dissipated as heat - instead of "filling" the battery it simply heats it, and the surroundings, up.
Despite being made to the same specs, this seem to differ from charger to charger, such as this thread here on XDA would indicate: http://forum.xda-developers.com/google-nexus-5/help/post-qi-charging-battery-temp-t2544768
If you look at the version specifications you see that version 1.2 of the "low power" Qi charging branch which phones are a part of increased the power to up to 15W.
Unless they also worked on the efficiency this would actually mean that version 1.2 does more damage to the battery than 1.0 and 1.1, but for that you would have to dive a bit deeper than the information given in that link.
But as always it's sort of subjective as to what point people will see wireless charging as being too wasteful and/or damaging.
Personally, I don't care because the convenience of wireless charging by far outways the little damage it does to a battery, in my opinion, and the same goes for QuickCharge as well. By the time I would see a noticeable effect on battery life I have probably already bought a new phone anyway
If we take Qualcomms QuickCharge for example,I think QC 3.0 is at the point of where people shouldn't really care about the negative impact. If you read the spec sheet for QC 3.0 it's basically a tweaked version of QC 2.0 (well duh) where the power delivery is controlled much better than QC 2.0 was, bringing both the efficiency and therefor speed to a much higher level even though both are rated for 18W.
Some reading for those who still doubt basic physics :
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_without_wires
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/all_about_chargers
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers
..and the best of all: https://google.com/
But let me ask you the same question you asked me; and I quote:
..that probably sounded very condescending (which is not how it was intended, of course), but I'm curious as to where you've acquired this absurd idea that Qi wireless charging is the best method of all? It's very likely the worst of all, actually.
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So you really think you know what you are saying there...
Heat dissipation will happen ONLY on the emitter part. So no heating on the recetor coil as well as no heating in the phone. I thinl ypu have to get your facts straight.
Because wireless charging coils run on such low amperage this will nevver become a problem of overheating.
As you said before me, you should get your phisics knowlege up to date. I am already a graduate with a phisics degree.
nonyhaha said:
So you really think you know what you are saying there...
Heat dissipation will happen ONLY on the emitter part. So no heating on the recetor coil as well as no heating in the phone. I thinl ypu have to get your facts straight.
Because wireless charging coils run on such low amperage this will nevver become a problem of overheating.
As you said before me, you should get your phisics knowlege up to date. I am already a graduate with a phisics degree.
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Click to collapse
Yes, I do think I know what I'm talking about - but luckily you came to the rescue and used your alleged physics degree to write a reply that proved me wrong with all of your facts, right?
Oh, no.. you didn't - you just doubled down instead, well done.
It doesn't matter (and is not important in this case) where the heat dissipation happens (and never did I claim it happened at the receiver - only that it happens) - the battery is still being heated up regardless, due to the energy loss.
If someone with an alleged physics degree keeps denying that the battery is heated up accordingly to my previous post then I doubt that you finished at the top of your class, if at all, sorry. I would really like to see all your evidence you have against what I wrote in my previous post (and that tons of people are posting about on the interwebz).
Just give it a go on Google, such as this thread from XDA: http://forum.xda-developers.com/google-nexus-5/help/post-qi-charging-battery-temp-t2544768
You can even do a simple charging test of your own, just compare battery temperatures while using a Qi wireless charger, QC2.0 and another at 1A.
Are everyone posting about high temperatures while using Qi chargers lying? Why would they do that? ..maybe the wired-charging-mafia are paying people to discredit WPC and other groups.. hm, maybe.
Yeah, it's getting a bit ridiculous, but silly claims require silly responses, sorry
If you can actually prove what I was saying in my previous post is wrong then I'll gladly accept it, but I do not take "na-ah, not true" with any degree of seriousness and neither do I give credit to claims of physics degrees. In that case I'm an ESA astronaut currently in space - see where this is going?
I go by what you actually write, not what you claim. The only reason for boasting about alleged degrees is to divert attention from the lack of any credible proof - disprove what my previous post said and I'll gladly accept it.
Ok, so my Yotaphone 2 charger has quick charge ability, as does my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 charger and car charger.
Despite all of these chargers having fast charging ability and my Samsung Note 4 fast charging perfectly with all of them, none of them appear to fast charge my Yotaphone 2......
It's at 63% charged right now and whether I plug it into a non QC charger or any of my quick chargers, it's saying 55 minutes until fully charged.
I've looked through the settings pages and can't find a way to enable quick charge on my Yotaphone like I could on my Note 4 battery page.
I'm running a Gearbest supplied YD206 which I flashed to the RU 134 ROM (so it's now showing as a YD201)
Am I missing something?
Any ideas/replies would be greatly appreciated!
Yotaphone 2 charger should indicate active quick charging by ligthing up "Yotaphone" with white LEDs on the charger. If its charging with 5V only your charger doesn't light up.
I don't think that theres something wrong with your phone. Just that charging estimation is inaccurate (at the moment).
Well my chargers Yotaphone logo is lighting up, so I guess it's working then. Thanks for the reply ?
I've had to put the two pin Yotaphone charger block into a three pin UK adaptor to try it. Annoyingly & worryingly it buzzes a lot & quite loudly - is that the same for everyone?
zippyioa said:
Ok, so my Yotaphone 2 charger has quick charge ability, as does my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 charger and car charger.
Despite all of these chargers having fast charging ability and my Samsung Note 4 fast charging perfectly with all of them, none of them appear to fast charge my Yotaphone 2......
It's at 63% charged right now and whether I plug it into a non QC charger or any of my quick chargers, it's saying 55 minutes until fully charged.
I've looked through the settings pages and can't find a way to enable quick charge on my Yotaphone like I could on my Note 4 battery page.
I'm running a Gearbest supplied YD206 which I flashed to the RU 134 ROM (so it's now showing as a YD201)
Am I missing something?
Any ideas/replies would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps something wrong is with the cable, not the charger. Something like that happened to me sometime ago - when I used some different cable QC works again.
I had already tried three different chargers and two different cables
If the earlier post about the Yotaphone charger lighting up is correct, I think the phone is quick charging ok.
I guess I was expecting something similar to my Note 4 where it actually stated "fast charging" in the battery menu if I was charging it with a QC.
That message would then change to "charging" if I used a standard charger instead.
I bought a new powerbank, it seems to charge other phones ok but NOT the yotaphone. The powerbank displays the percentage charge for about 10 seconds then display goes off, but so does the yotaphone charging. Other phones and gadgets don't go off. Anyone else have this?
Powerbank is QC3.0. I have tried using different cables, always same.
Sometimes it charges OK. I thought my powerbank was fake until I found it charged other gadgets well.
I also noticed that YotaPhone2 sometimes doesn't want to charge. I just plug it in (cable&charger original), the YotaPhone logo lights up but the phone just doesn't charge! I will try with my power bank and see what happens.
I haven't understood the cause yet, maybe it's because mine has unlocked bootloader, TWRP, root, xposed. (YD206)
Hey all,
I was wondering what you guys think of the following:
Is it better for your battery to use the stock 3 amp charger all the time or is it better to charge it more slowly with an 2 amp charger? In my thoughts, slow charging is better for the battery. What do you think?
Slower is better.
Tons of articles on the net discussing this!
therock3181 said:
Slower is better.
Tons of articles on the net discussing this!
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Yeah I've read some, but they are a bit inconclusive. That's why I started this topic.
Edit: thanks for your reply btw!
Use a USB-C 5V 3A charger. If you monitor your charging amps you will only ever see 3A when fully discharged and it then tapers off to less than 0.5 amp when close to full. Suit yourself, but I'm using USB-C chargers designed for the phone.
v12xke said:
Use a USB-C 5V 3A charger. If you monitor your charging amps you will only ever see 3A when fully discharged and it then tapers off to less than 0.5 amp when close to full. Suit yourself, but I'm using USB-C chargers designed for the phone.
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Since the battery of the 6p degrades very fast, I was interested if people here would think using a 2 amp charger would help stay the battery in better condition.
swa100 said:
Since the battery of the 6p degrades very fast, I was interested if people here would think using a 2 amp charger would help stay the battery in better condition.
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Click to collapse
As mentioned earlier the charging current is not constant and is regulated by the phone. The fast-charging phase of the charging cycle only runs up to ~40% battery capacity and then tapers off. If you doubt this, you can simply install any program that monitors charging current (eg. Accubattery) and see for yourself. See the Accessories sub-forum or the "Charge Time" section here for more information.
v12xke said:
Use a USB-C 5V 3A charger. If you monitor your charging amps you will only ever see 3A when fully discharged and it then tapers off to less than 0.5 amp when close to full. Suit yourself, but I'm using USB-C chargers designed for the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
v12xke said:
As mentioned earlier the charging current is not constant and is regulated by the phone. The fast-charging phase of the charging cycle only runs up to ~40% battery capacity and then tapers off. If you doubt this, you can simply install any program that monitors charging current (eg. Accubattery) and see for yourself. See the Accessories sub-forum or the "Charge Time" section here for more information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that. I'm monitoring the charge speed with accubattery. When under 40% it charges up to 2900 mah, and when it gets higher it goes down to around 2000mah. Average charging speed for last charge (20%-80%) was around 2550 mah. I know that's normal for normal phones, but I was wondering if it would help if I would use a 2 amp charger, to slow the charging down. Only because our nexus 6p stock batteries seem to be quite crappy.
So, I know the charge rate is fine if the battery would be of good quality, but it seems that ours are not.