Database Users

A few notes about the camera (it isn't bad)

Lots of people are unhappy with the camera on the Z. I'm into photography and I thought I'd have a play with it to see what I could find out. I thought I'd post this as it may help people get more out of the camera and understand why they are getting bad results. I was initially very unhappy with low light shots, especially compared with my old Xperia Arc. I am now getting vastly better results.
1. "Superior Auto Mode" SUCKS. Really, really sucks.
Why?
First, it applies some sort of hyper-aggressive noise reduction/sharpening to most images. This means that even if you get a good capture, this mode then does its best to ruin it for you by artificially stuffing up details and actually adding noise (via over-aggressive processing).
Second, it does really stupid things with ISO. You may notice that on manual settings, ISO only goes up to 1600 (which is still way too high for this sensor). However, in auto, the camera will go up to at least ISO 2500 (confirmed by checking exif data). This is extremely bad for image quality and introduces huge amounts of colour noise which simply cannot be overcome by post processing. In addition, in auto mode the camera is very "high ISO happy", so it will bump up the ISO very quickly even in moderately good conditions.
What's more, while you can't use the (dubious) image stabilisation at manual ISO settings, you can you HDR. So you can get good night or dusk shots by using HDR and (say) ISO 400 in normal mode, which I deal with below.
Overall, I would avoid this mode unless you are in bright conditions or just need to get a basic shot without caring about quality.
2. HDR mode is real, but the images it takes are not taken simultaneously.
I'm sure I read Sony claiming that the sensor was in some way three layered and therefore that it could take HDR shots instantly. The reality is that while HDR mode works (weakly), it actually takes three separate shots over the space of maybe half a second.
The problem with this is that if things are moving in your image, they will either blur or have ghosts of themselves in the photo.
I verified this by taking an HDR shot of traffic at an intersection. I was able to see very dark and very light 'ghost' images of moving cars, even though the rest of the image was sharp and clear.
From this I am guessing that Sony has implemented an edge-matching algorithm to process the three exposures into one. This can cope with some camera shake, but cannot cope with actual fast moving objects. This theory is supported by the fact that the image size drops by one megapixel for HDR, i.e., the camera is giving itself a "border" to allow for shake.
It is also apparent that the level of HDR processing is very weak compared to what is possible with a proper camera and proper software. The exposure range and the amount of weight given to the high and low range exposures is very weak (confirmed by the level of saturation of the "ghost" cars in my test image, which were fairly faint).
Others have reported that the video quality suffers with HDR on. This is consistent with the HDR having to take triple the exposures then process them on the fly.
3. Image stabilisation is a gimmick
In manual mode, you can turn on image stabilisation. However, when you do this, you can't set a manual ISO level and can't use HDR. This strongly suggests that all that "image stabilisation" is really doing is messing with your ISO settings (as per "superior auto mode") to increase shutter speed in difficult conditions by ramping up ISO. This, of course, destroys quality.
4. You can use normal mode to control the ISO and get much better results, including at night
If you choose "normal" shooting mode, and then go to settings and scroll down, you will find an option to set the ISO of the camera manually.
Playing with this, I have been able to get much, much better results from the camera than are achievable either in "superior auto" mode or in any mode where ISO is set to "auto".
Specifically, I would say that the camera produces fair to excellent results (for a phone camera) at any ISO below 400, and acceptable results at 800 in some conditions. However, 1600 produces very noisy images and should be avoided if you are after image quality (as should 800, to be safe). That is consistent with the size of the camera and sensor. Even fairly good consumer DSLRs struggle at or above 1600, so it is not surprising that a tiny phone camera struggles at or above 800.
Using the camera at ISO 400 I have been able to take shots in very dark conditions which look great and show relatively little noise.
The lens is f/2.4 at its fastest, which is not ultra fast, but fast enough to capture a decent amount of light at ISO 400 or 800. You are better off sticking to these ISO levels and trying to physically stabilise your camera (i.e., balance it on something solid) than killing you image quality with higher ISO settings.
A comparison suggests that "normal" mode doesn't apply the stupid levels of sharpening and noise reduction (so called) that superior auto mode does. Shots seem to retain most of the natural sharpness and detail that the camera is clearly capable of producing.
5. The flash is bad but better than most
Direct flash generally sucks, and mobile phone flashes generally suck. Combine them for a lot of suckiness.
However, Sony has done a solid job with this flash, given the baseline difficulties with any direct flash. It doesn't seem to blast its subject and it seems to be at a low enough level to let ambient light fill in the background. I was able to get acceptable results in normal mode at ISO 400.
6. Metering
The metering on the camera is quite aggressive in its centre-weighted variation. If you are finding that photos of a light or dark object are causing the rest of the scene to blow out or go too dark, try the full averaged metering mode (which is slightly dark, but does a decent job).
7. My suggested settings
A. Daytime: Normal mode; ISO 100; HDR off (to avoid ghosts on moving objects); flash off.
B. Nightime: Normal mode; ISO 400; HDR off unless taking pics of buildings and holding camera v steady; metering full scene; flash off.
C. I want to produce horrible photos then complain: Superior Auto Mode.
I hope this helps someone! Using setting A above this camera produces some stunning pictures in good light. Using setting B it produces very good night pictures for a camera phone, particularly if you shoot at the highest resolution then resize later.

One other thing - what I would like to see Sony do to improve the camera so that users get the most out of it...
1. Dramatically reduce the default image processing in auto mode
2. Add a smart ISO setting, where the user can control the maximum ISO that the camera will select on "auto ISO". E.g. allow the user to set ISO800 as a cap, but have the camera use a lower setting if suitable for the conditions.
3. Add advanced options to allow the user to contol noise reduction and sharpening.
4. (In fantasy land) add a full manual mode.

What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?

JPWOA said:
What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that's focus mode (which I don't have strong views about - I prefer single point for more control, personally). I.e., the way in which the camera picks the subject which will be in focus.
I'm talking about exposure, i.e., how the camera works out how bright or dark the scene is. In "normal" mode, if you go to settings, then scroll down, you will see a metering option. The choices are centre, average or spot.
I'm suggesting that at night "average" will be most useful as "centre" or "spot" take a limited part of the image and base exposure on that. At night a limited part of the image is likely to be extremely dark or light, which will make the exposure go nuts.
During the day "centre" works ok for specific subjects, and average is good for evenly lit scenes.

Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?

caitsith01 said:
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Agreed on pretty much most of what you say, in addition other camera apps that allow you to save 100% jpg quality or save as png also help.
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Apart from that some good information shared.
---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------
juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no, because Sony are still processing the image to create the jpg files, and not saving at 100%. Think of RAW, I always shoot in RAW because then I am in control of the processing on the image WB,Sharpness,Brightness... not my camera.
Burst mode is great, because the Sony algorithms don't have time to apply all the settings to all the photos before they are written, so just pretty much write the file (like jpg in raw jpg). So a combo of all these things will significantly help further. To better this even further there are other camera apps that allow you to save at 100% jpg or even png for RAW like capture to a lesser extent

danw_oz said:
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.

juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen that thread - in my opinion the burst pics look similar to those I have been able to achieve in normal mode, i.e., nice clean edges, not a lot of detail loss, not a lot of noise added by over-sharpening.
I imagine the reason is that the camera isn't fast enough to ruin... er... process pictures when shooting in burst mode. Burst mode has some resolution limitations, though, plus who wants 10 copies of every photo?
To be honest many of the daytime shots I've taken look pretty close to what you would expect from an enthusiast compact, like one of the Leica-Panasonic or Canon G-series cameras. Not quite there, but close (and obviously lacking optical zoom).

Well i don't know but i took some samples for a quick compare. Though even the BURST Mode pics are a bit smaller in size, they give you still the most detail and Pictures overall look much better. That's at least my impression.
1- Burst Mode
2- Snap Camera (PlayStore)
3- Supperior Auto
4- Normal Mode ISO 100
5- HDR Kamera (PlayStore)
Decide for yourself.

caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am talk serious gear, not cheap 50mm lenses. And I didn't ask you if you could find cheap lenses, I asked you how many lenses you have faster than f2.4.
For solid low light performance, I would not be using a smart phone, nor would most others I am sure. Most people are using phones for snap shots nothing serious, or to capture that once off shot because you didn't have a better camera on hand.
Not any phones that I am aware of below f2.0

caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again

Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
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totally agree, most of all on superior auto...
normal mode, same photo,auto is 400 iso...manual iso 200 (just a little darker) superior auto 800/1600 iso
superior auto can be good only on daylight (difference between 40 and 100 is really small)

sacredsoul said:
Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!

fartlec said:
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that you can resolve those nameplates better in the burst mode picture, even though I think it might be slightly lower resolution (?). The "normal" mode shot looks softer, but looks to me like it still has less aggressive noise reduction/sharpening than the "superior auto" shot. I would like to know what ISO these were at - unfortunately the EXIF data has been stripped out.
Another area where the three pictures are noticeably different is the curtains in the lowest row of windows. The burst mode output is noticeably sharper. Normal mode is a bit more smudged and has the characteristic "painted" look of over-aggressive noise reduction, and superior auto mode is even worse in this regard (as well as the colour being completely different).
I obviously don't know exactly what's happening inside the camera, my original post is just what I've tried to work out from playing around with different settings.
I can say for sure that there was a drastic difference in noise for me taking the same dark night scene using superior auto and then manually dialling down the ISO. Using superior auto the noise in darker areas was so bad that the image was unusable, even for social media etc, whereas at ISO 400 it was acceptable and could have come from a reasonable quality compact camera. It may be that the ISO level is the primary problem, and that the aggressive denoise/sharpen algorithms make the problem worse (because running these on a super-noisy picture will produce messy results). So it might be running the same level of denoise etc in both modes, but because superior auto produces such messy base images the filters then make the pictures look shocking.
It really needs a "raw" mode, either producing real RAW images or producing "straight out of camera" JPEGS with minimal filtering.

caitsith01 said:
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah thank you. So for indoor pictures, if I wanted to see the preview, I don't have a choice but to increase ISO? That sucks really

I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP

sillypilot said:
I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exemples ?

I also use the 4.2 camera. For me it's faster and the photos it makes are on par with the ones made using burst.
I've patched the 4.2 camera to support all of the resolutions Z/ZL support (9, 13, etc).
I'm uploading it now.
Update: here's the link

A few shots from yesterday.
At the car
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20Burstmode.JPG
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20iAuto.jpg
At my parkingspace
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20iAuto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Burst.JPG
Normal, 100ISO, HDR On
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Normal%20100ISO%20HDR%20On.jpg
Window shot
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Auto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Burst.JPG
So what do you think? There are some differences between the pictures indeed.

Z1s Camera settings (guide?)

Per request in another thread I am here to talk a little.about how to operate this camera in manual mode. I've seen complaints about how.it.performs in auto so hopefully what you see in here will make you switch to manual for your shots.
Let me start by saying you won't get dslr type quality out of this thing but the faults the camera does have from my observations, can be fixed in post easily. Now this is just my style and personal opinion, but I've never had a camera phone that took images that I couldn't make better with a little.bit of post editing. Hell even my professional dslr pictures get the editing treatment.
In my real first experience today with the phone I found that it normally takes decent images. The pictures lack a ton of contrast in my opinion and that was what I found myself adjusting the most. Colors are fairly good except I took one macro of a flower in my garden yesterday that was so saturated all the details in the petals were blown out. It was an overcast day which is the ideal lighting situation for a photographer but for some reason the pink flower turned out neon red in the image. I didn't have that happen today, which was a sunny day, so I'll blame that on a fluke shot or maybe the conditions confused the software for one reason or another.
As far as the camera interface, more importantly, knowing where the settings are so you can access them quickly when trying to take the shot. I am happy with what is offered in manual, the only thing I wished I had was an option for shutter speed but I've only had 1 phone that ever had that option so I'm not complaining.
//////Xperia Z1s//////

As far as the camera interface, more importantly, knowing where the settings are so you can access them quickly when trying to take the shot. I am happy with what is offered in manual, the only thing I wished I had was an option for shutter speed but I've only had 1 phone that ever had that option so I'm not complaining.
Iso, shutter speed, and aperture are all related and affect one another. I haven't looked at specs but I'm assuming we are working with a fixed aperture and we can't change the shutter speed so I'll just talk briefly about iso.
Iso is going to affect how sensitive the sensor is to light around you. In other words you would use low ISO when there is plenty of natural or ambient light around, and a high iso for a night shot or for low ambient light like maybe dim house light or candle light. I haven't tested this phone in bad lighting conditions and I haven't browsed through the picture thread so maybe others can chime in on how it does at night and in low light situations. I had an HTC one and people praise that phone for its picture taking in low light but I found that images were too noisy if you tried to sharpen them afterwards imo.
//////Xperia Z1s//////

I never use the auto mode and I suggest no one do. Even though you are somewhat limited in a camera phone you still want to be able to take the photo you want not the photo the phone wants you to take. You may want to blowout those highlights in the background or you may want to underexpose the image. It all depends on your style and preference. This is why manual mode is the ideal why to shoot. Now you might say for street photography or situations where you just have time to get a quick shot shoot in auto. Which is fine, capturing the picture is what's important not the settings in that situation. But even then I would still say adjust the settings beforehand according to the environment you know you're going to be in so you can shoot freely without worrying about adjustments. I remind you everything I've said thus far is all my opinion. So let me move on to the individual settings and what they do.
Resolution
No need to explain this or self timer or smile shutter. I think we all know what those do.
Focus modes
Single auto is just that. A single focus area in the middle of the viewfinder.I don't like this because it hinders composition.
Multi
This simply places multiple focus areas on the screen. Haven't used this yet. I assume it does its best trying to find the areas you want be in focus I guess for group shots or something.
Face detection is self explanatory
Touch
This is my ideal setting. You simple tap the area in the viewfinder that you want to be in focus. Works well because when you use interesting composition you can focus on any area of the scene instead of a fixed place in the center like in single mode
//////Xperia Z1s//////

Object track
Used this today but didn't snap the shot. It did well following a kid jumping around in a bouncy castle and that was through some netting on the side of the castle. Didn't settle on the still net it tracked the girl back and forth Several times.
Iso I already explained
Metering
Center - this will meter the exposure for what ever is in the middle of the scene you are shooting. I don't see why you would use this setting and I don't know why it's on by default. Maybe your subject isn't in the middle, maybe you're using interesting composition and your subject is off center.
Average - this should.be your default. This takes into consideration the lighting in the entire scene and exposes accordingly.
Spot - advanced metering when you want to expose for a certain place in the scene. For example, if you're shooting into the sun and your subject is back lit you could use spot metering to expose for the subjects face. There face will be properly exposed and the background light will probably be blown out which sometimes makes for an interesting photo.
Image stabilizer is what it is. When this is on you can not adjust iso
EV
This is on the fly exposure. If your scene is too dark or too bright in the viewfinder you can adjust this up and down to compensate for the lighting situation. I believe you can adjust in half stops and full fstop increments.
Cloudy / shade - picture of clouds
These are white balance settings. Cloudy is used for overcast cloudy days or when your subject is in shade. It compensates for the cool blues you get in these conditions and will warm up the photo a bit after its taken.
Sun
Opposite of.the previous setting. It will cool the image a bit when the sun is shining and your photos are too warm.
Fluorescent
This will adjust the color balance when you're taking pics under this type of lighting indoors somewhere
Incandescent
Does the same except for incandescent bulbs such as house lamps etc
Now these aren't set in stone. Rules are made to be broken. You may get a cool effect by using fluorescent setting in the shade or under the sun. It's all about experimenting and creativity and getting the look you like.
I know I've been rambling and typed up an essay but I will finish with some images and some before and after shots. Thanks for reading if I made a mistake or if there are questions feel free to ask.
You can follow me on ig @whentheFstops
Before (how the image came out the camera)
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After
Before
After
Before
After
Before
After
//////Xperia Z1s//////

Btw...it was sunny today so my iso stayed on 100 with touch focus. The only thing I changed was the white balance depending on if the subject was in the sun or the shade
//////Xperia Z1s//////

great guide

Well done!
This guide is very useful!
Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk

Thanks for the guide. In terms of post processing on the phone, what app can you recomnend?
Sent from my C6903 using xda premium

Here's another perspective to when people complain about image quality and write comments about the "crappy camera" on the Z1:
"For professional pictures I use my DSLR"
-> You will never carry your DSLR around everywhere 100% of the time even on a holiday. "The best camera is the one you have with you" etc.
"I don't have time to change settings, the moment will pass by the time I'm done"
-> Changing the few important settings (ISO, EV and metering) take but some seconds. A bowl of fruit, a mountain in the background, your duckface or that kid peeing over the fence won't disappear or change that quickly. Unless you are taking a picture of a moving car or train, you won't miss a few seconds.
"The camera software on other phones is much better than the Z1"
-> Yes and they also artificially reduse noise by redusing quality.
"I just want to take a quick snap without bothering with any settings"
-> If you are going to take a picture anyway, do you really have to use an excuse to NOT try to make it a good one?
@twoeleven99 - thanks a lot for the guide. I do have one idea to improve the guide even more with the help of others in this little community. How about sharing some good pictures with the most important settings to give an idea what kind of manual settings (what ISO, what EV compensation, what meterin) to use in different circumstances? Such as a picture in bright sunlight , a picture when it's overcast, various low light scenarios etc. What I mean is that because the classic "a picture says more than a thousand words" holds true - we could use pictures to demonstrate how to think about the camera settings. So next time someone goes out on a cloudy day and wants to take a picture, they could just refer to "ah right, I saw a picture in similar circumstances and it had ISO 200, EV +2/3 and metering average."

Great guide!
I see that it's a matter of taste with the settings. I too use "wrong" WB settings to get what I want.
I like playing with the camera on manual, trying everything to capture a great photo. I'm not a photographer, but I like to make the best out of my phone. I have a planned project in future to show the capabilities of the camera.
I want to make good HDR photos and I was amazed to see that this phone can capture a great photo (HDR edit after, not the HDR from the phone) which can be edited later. I was surprised to see low noise after HDR. But, it's only when you have enough light for the photo, otherwise, you will get too much noise.
I'm in middle of exams, I will post more photos, before after.
Thanks again for the guide. Really appreciate it.

how do you get the after shots? they look so good! do you use a program to add contrast and such?

ikkeeuu said:
how do you get the after shots? they look so good! do you use a program to add contrast and such?
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Click to collapse
After reading the thread, I was under the impression that the before shots were auto and the after shots were with manual settings. No post processing applied.

Recommend the OP use flickr to upload photos as it makes it easier to review exifs.

thats a great guide ... i will settle down untill you play with scenes .. as every scene got its shutter speed and iso ... starting from 1/10000sec till 0.8Sec

gtizon said:
Thanks for the guide. In terms of post processing on the phone, what app can you recomnend?
Sent from my C6903 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a ton of apps but I usually end up in one of the photoshop apps, snapseed, or vsco
//////Xperia Z1s//////

akselic said:
Here's another perspective to when people complain about image quality and write comments about the "crappy camera" on the Z1:
"For professional pictures I use my DSLR"
-> You will never carry your DSLR around everywhere 100% of the time even on a holiday. "The best camera is the one you have with you" etc.
"I don't have time to change settings, the moment will pass by the time I'm done"
-> Changing the few important settings (ISO, EV and metering) take but some seconds. A bowl of fruit, a mountain in the background, your duckface or that kid peeing over the fence won't disappear or change that quickly. Unless you are taking a picture of a moving car or train, you won't miss a few seconds.
"The camera software on other phones is much better than the Z1"
-> Yes and they also artificially reduse noise by redusing quality.
"I just want to take a quick snap without bothering with any settings"
-> If you are going to take a picture anyway, do you really have to use an excuse to NOT try to make it a good one?
@twoeleven99 - thanks a lot for the guide. I do have one idea to improve the guide even more with the help of others in this little community. How about sharing some good pictures with the most important settings to give an idea what kind of manual settings (what ISO, what EV compensation, what meterin) to use in different circumstances? Such as a picture in bright sunlight , a picture when it's overcast, various low light scenarios etc. What I mean is that because the classic "a picture says more than a thousand words" holds true - we could use pictures to demonstrate how to think about the camera settings. So next time someone goes out on a cloudy day and wants to take a picture, they could just refer to "ah right, I saw a picture in similar circumstances and it had ISO 200, EV +2/3 and metering average."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I will do that next time I'm out and about taking random pictures.
//////Xperia Z1s//////

farfromovin said:
After reading the thread, I was under the impression that the before shots were auto and the after shots were with manual settings. No post processing applied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All before pics were taken on manual and the after is edited. You can see the after pics all have had contrast added because like I said this camera and software combination has a severe lack of it in my opinion especially under sunlight. Pictures in the shade weren't so bad.
//////Xperia Z1s//////

ashouhdy said:
thats a great guide ... i will settle down untill you play with scenes .. as every scene got its shutter speed and iso ... starting from 1/10000sec till 0.8Sec
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't know there where scene modes. Do I have to be in auto mode to see them?
//////Xperia Z1s//////

twoeleven99 said:
Didn't know there where scene modes. Do I have to be in auto mode to see them?
//////Xperia Z1s//////
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the scenes you have to be on 8MP in Manual mode. They will show up in the upper left corner right above the EV setting.

One Twelve said:
Recommend the OP use flickr to upload photos as it makes it easier to review exifs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do. I was going to open a new Flickr account today I will make a folder for xperia pics and will drop a link
//////Xperia Z1s//////

Photography information/assistance/ideas

Paid hobbiest photographer here, I thought I'd share my knowledge of photography and give an opportunity for others to do the same
For pictures on the G4, they are can have the opportunity to be amazing. Let me start off by saying that LG did an amazing job with their auto mode. Whenever there is a large contrast (sun behind a mountain for example) I use auto for the hdr. When in doubt, use auto mode. The results are almost always stunning. (I also use auto for landscape pictures when it's a large subject, like a meadow for example)
That being said, there's another level that it can be taken to with manual mode. Let me explain each function from left to right.
WB: White balance - This option controls how "warm" or "cold" your pictures are. This is the most confusing option, and also the hardest to explain. Basically the lower the number, the more white your light source is. Thankfully LG put in recommendations as to what to set the white balance at based on your light source, but ultimately it's up to your personal tastes. One of the best things about this is that you can see the effects of changing the white balance on real time, making it easy to select your preferred look. I commonly increase the white balance on order to get a more saturated picture, with brighter, more vivid colors (but that's just my preference). White balance is one of the easiest to change in editing however, so I wouldn't worry too much about it as of right now.
MF: Manual Focus - This option is something I tend to leave alone, because of how well the laser focus works. As the name implies, this setting controls the focus of the camera. I find it useful in very close-up situations where the auto-focus is struggling to set, or when you want to focus on a specific object in your scene. Due to the laser auto-focus however, I mostly leave this alone, especially because it's easy to be just a tad off, and is impossible to fix in editing.
+/-: generic exposure - the only way you can have this enabled is if you uncheck "AE-L" on the far right. Adjusting this makes your pictures lighter or darker. Rather then messing with the iso and shutter speed yourself, the phone does it for you. I can honestly say I have never used this, mostly because I have a certain object I want to capture that requires either a fast shutter speed, or low iso.
ISO: Sensitivity to Light - A very useful tool, and completely foreign to the smartphone world (I think) until the LG G4. This is mostly changed based on what type of picture you're trying to capture. No matter what picture you are taking however, A LOWER ISO IS ALWAYS BETTER. While a higher iso will allow more light to be captured resulting in brighter pictures, it will also increase the "noise" or the graininess of the picture. Normally if I'm taking pictures of landscape or a still object, I'll keep the iso at 50, but at a maximum of 150 in order to keep the image clear and sharp. If I'm taking a picture of action or I'm trying the stop the motion I'll go up to an iso of 700 (but once again it's up to your personal preference)
S: Shutter Speed - one of my favorite things about this phone is being able to set the shutter speed. The longer the shutter speed, the more light will be able to get in. However, as a trade off, it's harder to keep the phone still, and anything in motion will show up blurry. A faster shutter speed will stop motion, meaning you can get really cool action shots, or freeze pretty much anything you want. The downside of this being normally you have to turn up the iso in order to compensate for the lack of light, meaning a grainier shot.
AE-L: Exposure Lock - All this does is toggle whether or not you want the camera to change the shutter speed and iso or not. As soon as you change the shutter speed or iso, the toggle is switched and the phone will not adjust these settings until you press the toggle.
Hope this helped let me know if you would like specific examples of how to use the shutter speed and iso to take some really cool shots!
-rifievans

Thanks for posting this. Complementary to the information you provided, here is below a previous post I wrote in the G4 pictures thread with some shooting tips as well. It was at the same time a mini review of the ProShot app (which allows more shooting controls), but the concepts described are relevant to any other application.
----
Here are my thoughts on the ProShot camera app followed by tips to maximize your image quality.
This is a paid app and you can dowload it here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.riseupgames.proshot2
This is a great app for photo enthusiasts and it currently offers some unique shooting modes with the LG G4.
I am not talking about scene modes like beach, snow, food, etc... - this app doesn't have that - but about the shooting functionalities you usually get on an advanced camera or SLR. The closest photo app offering a lot of manual features is Camera FV-5 that I also like.
Before going into the details, let's go through some photography basics.
The image exposure you are getting depends on the following parameters:
- Aperture: It is fixed on the LG G4 at F1.8
- Shutter speed: A slow shutter speed will allow more light to be captured but increase the risk of blur (sometimes a slow shutter speed is wanted to get light trails or water blur and the phone must be very steady for such cases). A fast shutter speed will freeze the motion.
- ISO: The image quality is maximized at ISO 50 (I have made tests and can confirm that). For a same exposure, choosing a higher ISO allows you to select a faster shutter speed (to counter shake / motion blur) but you will get more noise in the picture.
The following picture illustrates how these parameters work:
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"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
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"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
As the aperture is fixed to F1.8 on the G4, going forward I will only cover the 2 following values: Shutter speed and ISO.
LG's camera, FV-5 and ProShot offer the following modes:
- Auto: Shutter speed and ISO are chosen automatically. You can play with the exposure compensation to undexpose / overexpose the pciture (the camera will adjust one of the 2 values, sometimes both).
- Full manual: You have to manuall select the Shutter speed AND ISO values. The exposure compensation is not available in this mode (it becomes irrelevant).
So what if I want to shoot at a specific ISO but don't want to adjust the Shutter speed everytime the light changes (or vice-versa) ?
This is where ProShot comes into the game with 2 unique functionalities (not offered on LG's camera or FV-5):
- You can select an ISO value and the camera will automatically select a Shutter speed. You can still use exposure compensation if you want.
- You can select a shutter speed value and the camera will automatically select the ISO. You can also still use exposure compensation if you want.
Ok that's good but what do I make with that ? Here are shooting recommandations to maximize your image quality all the time using the ProShot app:
1. With good light and static subject(s), use P mode and set the ISO value to 50. You will get the best image quality possible on the phone with that setup. If you want to undexpose / overexpose the picture, you can still use exposure compensation (which will affect the shutter speed, but automatically). If you start getting shake / motion blur (low light or fast moving subject, go to point 2.
2. Determine the minimum shutter you can use without getting shake / motion blur (let's say for example 1/8 sec with steady hands and a static subject). Use M mode and set up this shutter speed value. Leave ISO in "Auto". ISO will then be automatically be adjusted depending on the light. (EDIT: You can also use C1 or C2 mode if you want to apply exposure compensation.)
If you have multiple chances to shoot the scenes, you can use burst mode - even in RAW + JPEG, something not possible with the defaut G4 app - and lower the shutter speed a bit under your comfort level (1/4 sec for example). Then review your series and only keep the sharpest picture.
Because of the above shooting flexibility available in ProShot, it is currently my favorite photo app with the LG G4.
Please note that the slowest shutter speed currently available is 0.7 sec in manual mode (the stock camera allows to go up to 30 sec).

But since the G4's Display is not accurate in white balance (I think it's closer to 8000K, which results in a blueish tint), won't the photos taken look very different on a calibrated display? Is there anyway to adjust the display's temperature to closer to 6500K? permanently?

hyyoje said:
But since the G4's Display is not accurate in white balance (I think it's closer to 8000K, which results in a blueish tint), won't the photos taken look very different on a calibrated display? Is there anyway to adjust the display's temperature to closer to 6500K? permanently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is different screen temps, mine is warmer...

hyyoje said:
But since the G4's Display is not accurate in white balance (I think it's closer to 8000K, which results in a blueish tint), won't the photos taken look very different on a calibrated display? Is there anyway to adjust the display's temperature to closer to 6500K? permanently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never noticed the temperature of the screen... But if that's true then yes the pictures will look different on a calibrated display.

rifievans said:
Paid hobbiest photographer here, I thought I'd share my knowledge of photography and give an opportunity for others to do the same
For pictures on the G4, they are can have the opportunity to be amazing. Let me start off by saying that LG did an amazing job with their auto mode. Whenever there is a large contrast (sun behind a mountain for example) I use auto for the hdr. When in doubt, use auto mode. The results are almost always stunning. (I also use auto for landscape pictures when it's a large subject, like a meadow for example)
That being said, there's another level that it can be taken to with manual mode. Let me explain each function from left to right.
WB: White balance - This option controls how "warm" or "cold" your pictures are. This is the most confusing option, and also the hardest to explain. Basically the lower the number, the more white your light source is. Thankfully LG put in recommendations as to what to set the white balance at based on your light source, but ultimately it's up to your personal tastes. One of the best things about this is that you can see the effects of changing the white balance on real time, making it easy to select your preferred look. I commonly increase the white balance on order to get a more saturated picture, with brighter, more vivid colors (but that's just my preference). White balance is one of the easiest to change in editing however, so I wouldn't worry too much about it as of right now.
MF: Manual Focus - This option is something I tend to leave alone, because of how well the laser focus works. As the name implies, this setting controls the focus of the camera. I find it useful in very close-up situations where the auto-focus is struggling to set, or when you want to focus on a specific object in your scene. Due to the laser auto-focus however, I mostly leave this alone, especially because it's easy to be just a tad off, and is impossible to fix in editing.
+/-: generic exposure - the only way you can have this enabled is if you uncheck "AE-L" on the far right. Adjusting this makes your pictures lighter or darker. Rather then messing with the iso and shutter speed yourself, the phone does it for you. I can honestly say I have never used this, mostly because I have a certain object I want to capture that requires either a fast shutter speed, or low iso.
ISO: Sensitivity to Light - A very useful tool, and completely foreign to the smartphone world (I think) until the LG G4. This is mostly changed based on what type of picture you're trying to capture. No matter what picture you are taking however, A LOWER ISO IS ALWAYS BETTER. While a higher iso will allow more light to be captured resulting in brighter pictures, it will also increase the "noise" or the graininess of the picture. Normally if I'm taking pictures of landscape or a still object, I'll keep the iso at 50, but at a maximum of 150 in order to keep the image clear and sharp. If I'm taking a picture of action or I'm trying the stop the motion I'll go up to an iso of 700 (but once again it's up to your personal preference)
S: Shutter Speed - one of my favorite things about this phone is being able to set the shutter speed. The longer the shutter speed, the more light will be able to get in. However, as a trade off, it's harder to keep the phone still, and anything in motion will show up blurry. A faster shutter speed will stop motion, meaning you can get really cool action shots, or freeze pretty much anything you want. The downside of this being normally you have to turn up the iso in order to compensate for the lack of light, meaning a grainier shot.
AE-L: Exposure Lock - All this does is toggle whether or not you want the camera to change the shutter speed and iso or not. As soon as you change the shutter speed or iso, the toggle is switched and the phone will not adjust these settings until you press the toggle.
Hope this helped let me know if you would like specific examples of how to use the shutter speed and iso to take some really cool shots!
-rifievans
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, thanks for the tips! I am finaly somewhat comfortable with the lg gl stock camera app. But I was wondering wether there is something i can do to lower the iso below 50, since a shutter speed above 2 seconds will result in a over bright picture, even with iso on 50. Anything to change this?
Thanks

Is the stock camera app the best one to use with LG G4?

WTF? said:
Is the stock camera app the best one to use with LG G4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Proshot is better imo if you don't need longer than 0.7s shutter speed/exposure time.
It allows to turn off the Noise Reduction which LG has tuned for certain ISO's to be a bit heavy handed.

goofball2k said:
Proshot is better imo if you don't need longer than 0.7s shutter speed/exposure time.
It allows to turn off the Noise Reduction which LG has tuned for certain ISO's to be a bit heavy handed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did that kernal mod to get the quality of jpg's much better, it turns off the compression, I guess?

WTF? said:
I did that kernal mod to get the quality of jpg's much better, it turns off the compression, I guess?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe so. It doesn't really help the noise reduction though, to my knowledge.

LeonardWoody said:
Hi, thanks for the tips! I am finaly somewhat comfortable with the lg gl stock camera app. But I was wondering wether there is something i can do to lower the iso below 50, since a shutter speed above 2 seconds will result in a over bright picture, even with iso on 50. Anything to change this?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously u tried to take some daylight long exposure shots where photos became unusable, right? As a matter of ISO 50 is the lowest as far as I know for any camera. Even many DSLR has 100 as lowest, but there u can adjust the aperture. So bad luck for smartphone users. If u really want to be creative, there's a video in HighOnAndriod youtube channel on how to take long exposure shots in daylight by using F-stop ND filters. U can apply that.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 01:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------
Nice thread. I wanted to create such a thread for LG G4 photography lovers to share our ideas and techniques. I request OP to change the thread title a little bit so that even more experienced photographers share their knowledge with newbees like us.
Anyway I want to share a few gadgets/accessories which I bought recently (still to come in my hand).
1. Beastgrip Pro
2. 52mm Hoya 1000 ND filter
3. 52mm Hoya Polarizer
4. 52mm Fotga Variable ND filter
5. 37 to 52mm step up ring adapter
6. 48 to 52mm step up ring adapted
7. Kenko 37mm 0.47x Super Wideangle / Fisheye + Macro lens (Cheap, not cheapest)
8. Kenko 37mm 0.5x Wideangle + Macro lens (Cheap, not cheapest)
9. A Generic 37mm Wideangle + Macro lens
As I haven't yet received these products in my hand, I will post reviews when they are available. But u get my purpose of buying these, right?
1. To take long exposure shots as day time
2. To take longer exposure shots at night
3. To take wideangle landscape long exposure shots
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

LeonardWoody said:
Hi, thanks for the tips! I am finaly somewhat comfortable with the lg gl stock camera app. But I was wondering wether there is something i can do to lower the iso below 50, since a shutter speed above 2 seconds will result in a over bright picture, even with iso on 50. Anything to change this?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See this post
For another way to attach the filter see this google plus post by Dave J.

nipun1110 said:
[/COLOR]Nice thread. I wanted to create such a thread for LG G4 photography lovers to share our ideas and techniques. I request OP to change the thread title a little bit so that even more experienced photographers share their knowledge with newbees like us.
Anyway I want to share a few gadgets/accessories which I bought recently (still to come in my hand).
1. Beastgrip Pro
2. 52mm Hoya 1000 ND filter
3. 52mm Hoya Polarizer
4. 52mm Fotga Variable ND filter
5. 37 to 52mm step up ring adapter
6. 48 to 52mm step up ring adapted
7. Kenko 37mm 0.47x Super Wideangle / Fisheye + Macro lens (Cheap, not cheapest)
8. Kenko 37mm 0.5x Wideangle + Macro lens (Cheap, not cheapest)
9. A Generic 37mm Wideangle + Macro lens
As I haven't yet received these products in my hand, I will post reviews when they are available. But u get my purpose of buying these, right?
1. To take long exposure shots as day time
2. To take longer exposure shots at night
3. To take wideangle landscape long exposure shots
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately (as far as I know) you can't change the title of the thread after it is created. However I completly agree with you in that this is a terrible title. I dont know what I was doing

so i have got the products in my hand and i will post the reviews soon

Strange behavior of noise reduction in stock camera - with samples

Update: I no longer have the LG G4 so I cannot help with this. You are free to use this thread to continue the discussion!
I've been playing around with the stock camera's manual mode, trying to figure out why sometimes pictures in both day light and low light have major noise reduction (NR) and other times pictures have some noise but details are preserved. At first I thought it was a software bug where NR wasn't correctly applied, but then I realized it had to do with the camera software and ISO.
I tested using ISO 50, 300, and 500.
I found that from ISO 50 to 400, NR is heavily applied and details are lost, making the G4 the same as other phone's cameras in day light. I took some pictures at a swimming pool on a sunny day and I didn't like the results with stock camera.
From ISO 450 (or 500) and up NR is reduced so much and details are mostly preserved.
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
That is a weird behavior. In DSLRs it is the opposite. Between ISO 100 and 800 there isn't much NR because there is no need for it and then you start getting a bit more NR, or you can disable it, usually it's called High ISO Noise Reduction. I'm not sure what LG was thinking to apply so much NR at ISO 50, seems like it's low ISO NR with LG lol. It does need some NR because the sensor is small but this is too much at such a low ISO. I really like that there isn't much NR applied after ISO 450/500.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
I know I can solve that by using Raw but I don't always have time to process the .dng file and I know I can use ProShot and disabling NR but there's nothing like the stock camera on the G4.
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Is there a software tweak in build.prop that we can apply to disable noise reduction like with the HTC M9?
EDIT - Camera mod:
defcomg made a mod that disables noise reduction in LG's stock G4 camera. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63025959&postcount=71
You must be rooted.
Go to System/Priv-app and copy/backup the LGCameraApp folder somewhere safe.
Take the LG camera apk file from defcomg's post above and put in the root of LGCameraApp folder in system/priv-app.
Overwrite and then launch camera. It will crash first time and then work fine.
Issues:
Clicking on Mode in Auto will always crash though, needs to be fixed.
Noise reduction is applied even in Auto. I would have liked it only in manual but seems like there's no way to do this yet. So, defcomg is trying to add a button that lets us disable noise reduction on the fly, that would be awesome because in higher ISO, there is a lot of chroma noise.

I have noticed the same thing myself. The G3 did the same thing. Even in bright light at ISO50, minor details are lost due to noise reduction. The advantage to the G3 was that you could use XCam LG to turn off the noise reduction. I wish he would develop it to work with the G4 also.

GibMcFragger said:
I have noticed the same thing myself. The G3 did the same thing. Even in bright light at ISO50, minor details are lost due to noise reduction. The advantage to the G3 was that you could use XCam LG to turn off the noise reduction. I wish he would develop it to work with the G4 also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember XCam from the G2 also, but I think the one for G3 is better with more options. If I recall correctly, the dev said that he doesn't have a G4 so he won't develop for it. Not sure though. I hope he does it too.
I had a Panasonic GX7 (Micro Four Thirds) and that camera had like 10 different settings for noise reduction, it was great lol. Wish phones get that level of control soon!
I like that HTC gives the option to change sharpness. That's also important.

Are you rooted? Do me a favor to see if I am imagining things or not.
I changed ro.lge.noise.suppression to "0" (off) in my build prop, then rebooted. I took a few pics, and I swear there is no more detail loss when zoomed in.
I just want someone else to do it and see if I'm crazy.

GibMcFragger said:
Are you rooted? Do me a favor to see if I am imagining things or not.
I changed ro.lge.noise.suppression to "0" (off) in my build prop, then rebooted. I took a few pics, and I swear there is no more detail loss when zoomed in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rooted yesterday . I'll try it out soon! I hope it works!

Ramsey said:
I rooted yesterday . I'll try it out soon! I hope it works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never mind. I took a few more. I think I'm crazy. Damn, lol. I was hoping I found it.

GibMcFragger said:
Never mind. I took a few more. I think I'm crazy. Damn, lol. I was hoping I found it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I tried it, no changes even after reboot =(.
That noise suppression could be for calls or mic .

Ramsey said:
Ok I tried it, no changes even after reboot =(.
That noise suppression could be for calls or mic .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just verified that. I'm an idiot. It IS the noise suppression for calls. If you go into your call options in the dialer, the noise suppression option will now be missing...
Lol oops. Just change it back to 1, then reboot and it's back.

GibMcFragger said:
I just verified that. I'm an idiot. It IS the noise suppression for calls. If you go into your call options in the dialer, the noise suppression option will now be missing...
Lol oops. Just change it back to 1, then reboot and it's back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No prob lol.
This was a line added to build-prop to disable some noise reduction on the M9. I don't know if it will work with the G4 but it's worth trying. I don't have time now, maybe later I'll try it:
persist.camera.qcwnr.enabled=0

Ramsey said:
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if its a question of where focus got set. With the ISO 500 focus was spot on but with the ISO 50 maybe focus got set on the sheet further away.The patterns on the sheet on the ISO 50 look more clear compared to the ISO 500.
I can't explain the ISO 300 one though. The fur seems soft like the ISO 50.
Try to get more distance between you and the subject, at least 2m so we can eliminate focus as a parameter.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is, its a damn good job. Face detect shows as one.
Does face detect get triggered in manual ? because with one of the shots in the photo thread i notice face detect was zero in the long exposure portrait.

What is weird is that it's mostly occuring on human skin. As said before thanks God we have RAW to control the NR and the jpeg compression. What is crazy too is that the difference is night and day between jpeg and raw even when saving at 100% jpeg quality using Lightroom on PC based on a dng it will recompress too much the pixels resulting in some color degradation. Perhaps LG is using a different color preset than the known adobe rgb ones...
Sent from my LG-H815 using XDA Free mobile app

Ramsey said:
I've been playing around with the stock camera's manual mode, trying to figure out why sometimes pictures in both day light and low light have major noise reduction (NR) and other times pictures have some noise but details are preserved. At first I thought it was a software bug where NR wasn't correctly applied, but then I realized it had to do with the camera software and ISO.
I tested using ISO 50, 300, and 500.
I found that from ISO 50 to 400, NR is heavily applied and details are lost, making the G4 the same as other phone's cameras in day light. I took some pictures at a swimming pool on a sunny day and I didn't like the results with stock camera.
From ISO 450 (or 500) and up NR is reduced so much and details are mostly preserved.
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
That is a weird behavior. In DSLRs it is the opposite. Between ISO 100 and 800 there isn't much NR because there is no need for it and then you start getting a bit more NR, or you can disable it, usually it's called High ISO Noise Reduction. I'm not sure what LG was thinking to apply so much NR at ISO 50, seems like it's low ISO NR with LG lol. It does need some NR because the sensor is small but this is too much at such a low ISO. I really like that there isn't much NR applied after ISO 450/500.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
I know I can solve that by using Raw but I don't always have time to process the .dng file and I know I can use ProShot and disabling NR but there's nothing like the stock camera on the G4.
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Is there a software tweak in build.prop that we can apply to disable noise reduction like with the HTC M9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but when setting ISO then it must be at Manual mode right ?
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.

s3alon said:
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was my first thought with the 1/8. But the ISO 300 is 1/24 or fast enough. Even at 1/8 you can get clear shots with the OIS.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
manual focus would be another way to eliminate any auto focus issues.

One Twelve said:
I wonder if its a question of where focus got set. With the ISO 500 focus was spot on but with the ISO 50 maybe focus got set on the sheet further away.The patterns on the sheet on the ISO 50 look more clear compared to the ISO 500.
I can't explain the ISO 300 one though. The fur seems soft like the ISO 50.
Try to get more distance between you and the subject, at least 2m so we can eliminate focus as a parameter.
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
If it is, its a damn good job. Face detect shows as one.
Does face detect get triggered in manual ? because with one of the shots in the photo thread i notice face detect was zero in the long exposure portrait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pretty sure focus is set correctly and there is no blur from me shaking. The OIS is pretty good on the G4. The problem lies in LG's post processing where in lower ISO it is using aggressive noise reduction.
Face detect isn't activated in manual mode. I may be wrong though.
The one of my daughter isn't shot in manual mode, it was auto. The focus point may not be fully on her face, perhaps her neck area, but I have other shots that I won't share where I did focus on faces and the skin is too smooth. Tried using ProShot and the faces don't have that fake smoothing, they look natural and normal.
The NR is too aggressive so that it makes it appear as if I focused wrong. Even if the focus is on the sheet with ISO 50, why aren't there any fine details on the sheet like with the ISO 500? That's the aggressive NR coming into play.

s3alon said:
Sorry but when setting ISO then it must be at Manual mode right ?
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is in manual mode as stated in the beginning of my post, but note that the pic of my daughter was in auto mode.
If you zoom in you can notice that there is no shaking, that's just the effect of aggressive noise reduction below ISO 450 .
Look at ISO 500, notice that the fur has more detail. You can see a lot more noise in that picture over the ISO 300 one. That's how LG decided to post process and I don't like that low ISO has aggressive NR.

One Twelve said:
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I mean by that is that auto mode has a special night mode that activates in low light and I think it takes away our ability to see ISO when that happens. Shots take longer to be saved also, but the results are pretty good. Manual mode doesn't have that feature and ends up with a lot of ugly noise in low light. I was just stating that I wasn't comparing the difference between those 2 modes, in case someone wanted to say that that's the night mode from auto mode causing that behavior.

Ramsey said:
I am pretty sure focus is set correctly and there is no blur from me shaking. The OIS is pretty good on the G4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, there is no blur that i can see in the 1/8 shot. Looks quite sharp. A little too sharp with patterns on the bedsheet just in front of the furry animal for ISO 50. So its not about shaking. But i'm not sure if focus got set properly.
My point is more about dof when focused on subjects less than 2m away. The G4 has a tendency to mess this up at times, picking the background instead of the foreground ie your intended target. So if you camera to subject distance is little over 2m then focus is at infinity or if closer than 2m you use manual focus then you get around AF, if indeed AF is responsible.
he problem lies in LG's post processing where in lower ISO it is using aggressive noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me more shots where we can eliminate focus as a potential cause.
Face detect isn't activated in manual mode. I may be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if face detect isn't triggered in manual then there will be no beauty face.
The one of my daughter isn't shot in manual mode, it was auto. The focus point may not be fully on her face, perhaps her neck area, but I have other shots that I won't share where I did focus on faces and the skin is too smooth. Tried using ProShot and the faces don't have that fake smoothing, they look natural and normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Focus is perfect in your daughters shot. Action shot, crisp, what a lovely photo it is
The NR is too aggressive so that it makes it appear as if I focused wrong. Even if the focus is on the sheet with ISO 50, why aren't there any fine details on the sheet like with the ISO 500? That's the aggressive NR coming into play.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me more examples.
---------- Post added at 05:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 AM ----------
Ramsey said:
What I mean by that is that auto mode has a special night mode that activates in low light and I think it takes away our ability to see ISO when that happens. Shots take longer to be saved also, but the results are pretty good. Manual mode doesn't have that feature and ends up with a lot of ugly noise in low light. I was just stating that I wasn't comparing the difference between those 2 modes, in case someone wanted to say that that's the night mode from auto mode causing that behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, your 1/8 ISO 50 is not a night shot. Had to be taken in manual.
Am doubting focus only in your shots. I am not convinced as yet that there is aggressive NR in a manual shot at low ISO. You did not use manual focus here it was AF. I think AF worked for ISO 500 but maybe not for ISO 50. That i think is the reason the toy at ISO 500 looks more clear.
I cannot say about ISO 300 though.
If you still did not understand, then see this link.
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In the above you can see its more clear towards the center than top or bottom. For ISO 500, imagine the toy is in the centre, AF got it right.
i think with the ISO 50, toy is in the centre but AF picked the top. so it looks like this.
This happens when subject to camera distance is less than 2m. You say NR, i say (maybe) focus

Shot in manual with jpg and dng and compare how aggressive the noise reduction is applied to processed jpg as compare to dng even at low iso.
Dng output shows too much noise even at low iso and with adequate light though i have no other phone for comparison. This might be the reason why lg apply too much NR? Its like saying g4 camera is bad.

Yeah, you're not crazy. This is a serious issue.
I was coming from a Galaxy S6 and I bought the LG G4. Went to the park, took some photos of my son. Got home, saw them on the PC, zoomed in.....
Oh my Josh. It was horrible. Lots and lots of noise. And yes, the skin was the problem.
Took the same shots with a Galaxy S6 and they were just fine. Lots of detail, noise not even remotely close.
Bright sunny day outside.

Ramsey said:
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your photo indicates face detect 1.
So let me show you some counter examples from one of the members here. Both are presumably in auto so face detect triggers when it can detect otherwise it does not indicate it detected a face.
20150726_170009 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 0 so in theory no beauty face.
20150726_170024 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 2
See the little boy's face. Is there any beauty face there ? because i cannot tell the difference between the two. These are good examples as they are in the same lighting, similar pose with same subject, with and without face detect.
Another pair
20150726_164936 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 0
20150726_164941 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 1
Any difference ? can't see it.
Check also the photos in his two albums, many portraits in there. i don't recall noticing any extra processing. This is the H815 but it should not make a difference.
Thanks @shurensly95 and do you have any opinion on this 'beauty face theory' ?

Photo quality

Say "cheese", then rate this thread to express how photos taken with the Xiaomi Mi 8 come out. A higher rating indicates that photos offer rich color (without over-saturating), sharp detail (with all subjects in-focus), and appropriate exposure (with even lighting).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

I don't get it, several persons got the device, but no feedback about the camera until now!

Camera is more than good.
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The shutter speed is too slow in auto mode indoor. It always use 1/17 speed instead of 1/50 and shooting photos with person inside always comes blur and unclear. I have to switch to manual mode and adjust the shutter speed to 1/60 to solve the problem.

Mi 8 2x zoom by Kin Ho, on Flickr
Top is unprocessed.
It is very sharp when taking landscapes including the zoom lens. The main problem I have is that it is too slow, unresponsive, there's at least a second wait before you can take the next picture. Photo options including the manual options are also lacking compared with a Samsung phone.

All unprocessed

How's the focusing on moving targets in different lighting conditions? I want to buy it, but only thing keeping me buying it is the poor camera performance on moving targets in other than bright light conditions. I've read about this in different sources.

catalindobre said:
How's the focusing on moving targets in different lighting conditions? I want to buy it, but only thing keeping me buying it is the poor camera performance on moving targets in other than bright light conditions. I've read about this in different sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you read the Test of DXO Mark? Its really a very detailed Test of the Cameras:
I am not able to post Links here, so search on Google please for Xiami Mi 8 DXOMark

magnum2323 said:
Have you read the Test of DXO Mark? Its really a very detailed Test of the Cameras:
I am not able to post Links here, so search on Google please for Xiami Mi 8 DXOMark
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read every potential review including DXO's, what is concerning me is that I understood that during not optimal daylight the shutter speed is significantly reduced which brings bad pictures. And the camera works very good on fixed targets, not that good on moving ones.
I want to know owner's, not reviewers experience with the their devices.

catalindobre said:
I've read every potential review including DXO's, what is concerning me is that I understood that during not optimal daylight the shutter speed is significantly reduced which brings bad pictures. And the camera works very good on fixed targets, not that good on moving ones.
I want to know owner's, not reviewers experience with the their devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah Ok, now I understand. So I own a Mi8 and i really love to take pictures with Smartphone.
So when photographing moving persons in bad light conditions, you want them to look sharp and not blurry.
For me the pictures in bad light conditions are to bright an dont look natural like it is. and moving persons are kind of blurry.
Maybe the shutter is really slow. But there is a manual mode,
that i want to try next days. I will play with the shutter speed, to see whats the matter of the bright photos in bad light conditions.
I installed the gcam for testing,too.

magnum2323 said:
I installed the gcam for testing,too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wich version of gcam?

The gcam from arnova for the OP6. Found here on xda
The file is named defcomg-fix_OP6v0.3_MGC_5.1.018_FINAL_3.4A

magnum2323 said:
The gcam from arnova for the OP6. Found here on xda
The file is named defcomg-fix_OP6v0.3_MGC_5.1.018_FINAL_3.4A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will test also
---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------
defcomg-fix_OP6v0.3_MGC_5.1.018_FINAL_3.4A
works with 8.7.19 rom by xiaomi.eu bit cant choose any model because app is freezing.more test needed.

Ryan_OY said:
All unprocessed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi，huster！

Taking pictures of moving subjects in the dark will always be blurry and this is what happens with every camera phone. Is it less blurry than other phones? Blurry is blurry doesn't matter if it's less or more.

I found the miui camera app really prefer to drop the shutter speed down to 1/33 sec or below instead of rising ISO to keep the exposure in low light. It produces noise free images for static objects (with the OIS it can effectively stabilize the hand shaking for these slow speeds) - but it is not ideal for humans, where a small movement of head or eye can make the moving parts blurry. Even more prominent when the portrait (2x) lens is choosen: due to only F2.4 aperture, no OIS and easier to shake with the longer focal length. You need plenty of light for the portrait shots with "depth" effect.
For such a portrait shot in the shade or indoor I usually fix the shutter speed to 1/125th or higher. This forces the app to rise the ISO, it can create more noise, but eliminates the motion blur. Unfortunately the app does not offer the "Portrait" effect in Manual mode.
An option for the lowest preferred shutter speed would be very useful.

karaya said:
I found the miui camera app really prefer to drop the shutter speed down to 1/33 sec or below instead of rising ISO to keep the exposure in low light. It produces noise free images for static objects (with the OIS it can effectively stabilize the hand shaking for these slow speeds) - but it is not ideal for humans, where a small movement of head or eye can make the moving parts blurry. Even more prominent when the portrait (2x) lens is choosen: due to only F2.4 aperture, no OIS and easier to shake with the longer focal length. You need plenty of light for the portrait shots with "depth" effect.
For such a portrait shot in the shade or indoor I usually fix the shutter speed to 1/125th or higher. This forces the app to rise the ISO, it can create more noise, but eliminates the motion blur. Unfortunately the app does not offer the "Portrait" effect in Manual mode.
An option for the lowest preferred shutter speed would be very useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yesterday I made some Shots at night and i am not very happy with the quality. Dark Surfaces in the Background have much noise.
Will try another Camera App, as long as waiting for the Gcam working with Mi8.

magnum2323 said:
Yesterday I made some Shots at night and i am not very happy with the quality. Dark Surfaces in the Background have much noise.
Will try another Camera App, as long as waiting for the Gcam working with Mi8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe a stable version of gcam mod for mi8 will come along with Pixel3

Does anyone know a working Gcam version for the SE?
I did try the versions that work on the Mi8 but they all have the "camera failure" issue.
Also, I noticed that all the versions after late May seem to be broken on the SE.

Noise Level too high
My Last testing shows that the Mi8 Camera not slower down the shutter too much, but raise the ISO Level as well.
Taking Pictures Indoor at daylight, show high Noise level on Black and other Dark colors.
Setting the Iso level fix at 200 Iso, the black is black without Noise. After testing with the other Isos I could agree that the cam uses
at Indoor an Iso of 800, which is too much. It brighten the Picture and give me to much noise.
karaya said:
I found the miui camera app really prefer to drop the shutter speed down to 1/33 sec or below instead of rising ISO to keep the exposure in low light. It produces noise free images for static objects (with the OIS it can effectively stabilize the hand shaking for these slow speeds) - but it is not ideal for humans, where a small movement of head or eye can make the moving parts blurry. Even more prominent when the portrait (2x) lens is choosen: due to only F2.4 aperture, no OIS and easier to shake with the longer focal length. You need plenty of light for the portrait shots with "depth" effect.
For such a portrait shot in the shade or indoor I usually fix the shutter speed to 1/125th or higher. This forces the app to rise the ISO, it can create more noise, but eliminates the motion blur. Unfortunately the app does not offer the "Portrait" effect in Manual mode.
An option for the lowest preferred shutter speed would be very useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse