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Z1 Camera Comparison: Google Nexus 5 vs iPhone 5s, Sony Xperia Z1, Samsung Galaxy Not

There have been a few amateur comparisons posted here in this thread, which frankly aren't very accurate or well done, nor are the small 1-page or even 1 paragraph reviews of the camera buried inside the overall phone review on many tech media websites. So I found a much more professional and also the most in depth camera shootout on the web at this time. Unlike what some would have you believe, the Xperia Z1 possesses one of the highest scoring smartphone cameras. There were so many photos taken in this extensive review that I'm not even going to try reproducing them all here. What I will do is post Phonearena's rankings for each category and leave it to you to hit up this link for the full article
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Outdoors at night time were a disappointment, so in this case I would suggest NOT using Superior Auto mode for those shots, as many others have suggested. Try Manual, 8MP, auto ISO, -1 to -2 ev

For a more professional touch I went to one of the most credible photography sites and got their take on the Z1 Camera comparisons. You can read the full shootout here. They were very critical of all tested phones, however the Z1 again did very well on this site:
In our tests the Nokia Lumia 1020 arguably offers the best all-around image quality. It captures great detail in good light and its Xenon flash provides excellent performance in very dim light situations. There is a lot of luminance noise in its high-ISO output but chroma noise is well under control and the very large 38MP image files mean that at normal viewing and printing sizes noise becomes much less visible.
If you only want to share your pictures online you can also set the device to only save 5MP images and conserve space in the phone's internal memory. Thanks to Nokia's clever downsampling algorithms the lower resolution images are comparatively clean even at higher ISOs and still show good detail. They might look a little oversharpened for some people's taste though.
The 1020 only struggled in our night shot. We took 30 shots with the Nokia but the shutter speed in such a dark environment was just too slow to get even a single 100% sharp image. In those situations we recommend upping the ISO manually in order to achieve a faster shutter speed. As we've already pointed out in our full review, the Nokia's performance can occasionally feel a little sluggish.
The Sony Xperia Z1 also offers very high resolution results, but suffers from noise and artifacts at all ISO settings. This is only really visible at large magnifications though and the Sony's good exposure and usually pleasant color response make it a good alternative for those who only share their pictures online at smaller resolutions. Another advantage of the Sony is that thanks to its responsiveness and dedicated shutter button, in terms of operations it comes as close to a compact camera as a smartphone can get.
The LG G2's image quality is not quite on the same level as the Nokia's and Sony's. Its efficient optical image stabilization helps keep things very steady in low light but very strong noise reduction is applied at all ISO levels and its auto white balance tends to capture slightly cool colors. Like the Sony, its LED flash cannot compete with the much more powerful units on the Nokia and Samsung. There's nothing wrong with the LG's camera but its image quality is simply not up there with the best of the 2013 smartphone generation.
Despite its 1/2.3 sensor the Samsung Galaxy S4 Zoom doesn't capture any more detail than the current generation of smartphones. In fact, the lens of our test unit appeared to be slightly soft at its wide angle setting. However, the Samsung is worth a look for those mobile photographer who want a powerful flash and an optical zoom
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Click to collapse
Unlike the Phonearena comparisons, in this case the Z1 took much nicer outdoor night time photos.

omnius1 said:
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Click to collapse
Surprising that G2 would do better than Z1 in low light.
omnius1 said:
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Click to collapse
This one needs serious work from Sony. Samsung is the king when it comes to panorama.
omnius1 said:
Outdoors at night time were a disappointment, so in this case I would suggest NOT using Superior Auto mode for those shots, as many others have suggested. Try Manual, 8MP, auto ISO, -1 to -2 ev
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Click to collapse
You mean that all these photos were taken with SA ?
This isn't a camera shootout. Its a shootout over how well the auto program works in each phone. If that's in various stages of maturity then this review is not representative. There are no reference shots so how do we know which camer got it right or over exposed/underexposed.
Apple won't allow access to ISO in the api, you cannot set ISO in an iphone.
From the article..
Focal length of Htc one - 28mm
focal length of Z1 - 27mm
hmm, Z1 must be doing some serious cropping here.
Does not distinguish between 2-axis OIS vs 3-axs OIS.

One Twelve said:
This one needs serious work from Sony. Samsung is the king when it comes to panorama.
You mean that all these photos were taken with SA ?
This isn't a camera shootout. Its a shootout over how well the auto program works in each phone. If that's in various stages of maturity then this review is not representative. There are no reference shots so how do we know which camer got it right or over exposed/underexposed.
Apple won't allow access to ISO in the api, you cannot set ISO in an iphone.
From the article..
Focal length of Htc one - 28mm
focal length of Z1 - 27mm
hmm, Z1 must be doing some serious cropping here.
Does not distinguish between 2-axis OIS vs 3-axs OIS.
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Click to collapse
Really? I think this is the most extensive comparison we can find so far on the web. I didn't pick apart the engineering specs behind it, but I think the photos they took with the Z1 looked fantastic against the competition. Which is what it's all about really. With the exception of the outdoor night and pano, I agree.
No they didn't have reference shots but they did take DSLR photos I think as well. However you have to read the article as well, where they do specifically mention which shots were closer in color and detail to the actual live scene.
However if you look at the night shots the digital camera review site took with it, his are actually pretty good in comparison.
Surprising that G2 would do better than Z1 in low light.
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Click to collapse
I don't think it did, that was an outdoor night ranking, they posted a separate ranking for indoor low light

Thanks for sharing the phonearena link, I hadn't seen it
Sent from my Xperia Z1 using Tapatalk

omnius1 said:
Really? I think this is the most extensive comparison we can find so far on the web. I didn't pick apart the engineering specs behind it, but I think the photos they took with the Z1 looked fantastic against the competition. Which is what it's all about really.
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Click to collapse
Original photos here
omnius1 said:
No they didn't have reference shots but they did take DSLR photos I think as well. However you have to read the article as well, where they do specifically mention which shots were closer in color and detail to the actual live scene.
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Read it now and i realise they DID provide reference shots with the panasonic lumix so this at least is better than other reviews i've seen.
omnius1 said:
I don't think it did, that was an outdoor night ranking, they posted a separate ranking for indoor low light
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Click to collapse
The problem with auto is its quite variable. I think of it as a random sampling. Lumia has problems with white balance which can be set manually. The night time shots with lumia which has the slowest exposure of 4s should beat the competition. But if auto did not do it correct then the 1020 gets a low score.
The problem i have generally with these sorts of comparisons is it requires expert users of the cameras concerned to see the best the camera can provide. Auto is not going to do this. Auto will tell you that chances are your experience is going to be similar but then the sample size is small, so its 50-50. You might get better shots or worse than what is shown here.
In other words take this review along with others with a grain of salt

I don't view this review as gospel of course, but in lieu of any others, it's the more extensive than any others I've seen on the Web. I took it for what it's worth, which is to say that the Z1 camera performed quite a bit better than what some individual posters or bloggers would have you believe. Could it be better? Sure, there's always room for improvement. Is it still really good? It looks so.
Sent from my Sony Xperia Z1

which firmware ? LG G2 better in low light ! its very very OverProcessed and Smoothed ...

Let's go to town on this one
omnius1 said:
Outdoors at night time were a disappointment, so in this case I would suggest NOT using Superior Auto mode for those shots, as many others have suggested. Try Manual, 8MP, auto ISO, -1 to -2 ev
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Click to collapse
Church
LG (1/12s, ISO 800, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/13s, ISO 400. 20MP, Auto)
The LG took a cleaner shot at twice the ISO as the Z1. Z1 in this review is using the latest .257 firmware.
The Z1 looks little over exposed. It's a pity they didn't take an 8MP as the noise would be less. Cannot see any camera shake here. ISO 200 might have been more clean.
Side street
LG (Shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto) Since this one is more clear, i assume it was taken at a faster shutter speed.
Z1 (1/8s, ISO 400, 20MP, Auto).
Reference (2 sec, ISO 160, 15.9MP, Auto)
Obvious camera shake if you see the moneygram sign on the left. camera shake affects picture quality.
1020 (1/8, ISO 800, 38.2MP, Auto) This one is clear.
Intersection
LG (1/14, ISO 400, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/20, ISO 500, 20MP, Auto)
No noticeable camera shake here. Z1 still looks over exposed. ISO 200 with little EV would have been better.
Building
LG (1/15, ISO 300, 20MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/32, ISO 320, 20MP, Auto)
These look pretty similar, Z1 could have done with ISO 200. Also a spot meter rather than centre-weighted in an area between light & dark could have helped.
Bench
LG (shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/8, ISO 400, 13, Auto)
Clear example where manual EV compensation would have brought out more details in both cameras and they could have used a lower ISO. So you can see how Auto can get it wrong some times. And scores averaged off auto will be equally flawed.
1020 (0.3s, ISO 4000,38.2MP, 17.2MB)
Reference (0.3s, ISO 1250, 15.9MP, 5.5MB, Low contrast, Manual WB)
It's curious why the LG dropped shutter & ISO info twice out of 4 pictures.

One Twelve said:
Let's go to town on this one
Church
LG (1/12s, ISO 800, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/13s, ISO 400. 20MP, Auto)
The LG took a cleaner shot at twice the ISO as the Z1. Z1 in this review is using the latest .257 firmware.
The Z1 looks little over exposed. It's a pity they didn't take an 8MP as the noise would be less. Cannot see any camera shake here. ISO 200 might have been more clean.
Side street
LG (Shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto) Since this one is more clear, i assume it was taken at a faster shutter speed.
Z1 (1/8s, ISO 400, 20MP, Auto).
Reference (2 sec, ISO 160, 15.9MP, Auto)
Obvious camera shake if you see the moneygram sign on the left. camera shake affects picture quality.
1020 (1/8, ISO 800, 38.2MP, Auto) This one is clear.
Intersection
LG (1/14, ISO 400, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/20, ISO 500, 20MP, Auto)
No noticeable camera shake here. Z1 still looks over exposed. ISO 200 with little EV would have been better.
Building
LG (1/15, ISO 300, 20MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/32, ISO 320, 20MP, Auto)
These look pretty similar, Z1 could have done with ISO 200. Also a spot meter rather than centre-weighted in an area between light & dark could have helped.
Bench
LG (shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/8, ISO 400, 13, Auto)
Clear example where manual EV compensation would have brought out more details in both cameras and they could have used a lower ISO. So you can see how Auto can get it wrong some times. And scores averaged off auto will be equally flawed.
1020 (0.3s, ISO 4000,38.2MP, 17.2MB)
Reference (0.3s, ISO 1250, 15.9MP, 5.5MB, Low contrast, Manual WB)
It's curious why the LG dropped shutter & ISO info twice out of 4 pictures.
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never seen such bad low light fotos from the z1 before ... sure you know what i mean cuz you know the pics i take from the flickr Set !
thats one photo just with manual and night scene ! i will not follow any photo comparisons from reviewers anyMORE !!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/10985713943/in/set-72157637726566185

ashouhdy said:
never seen such bad low light fotos from the z1 before ... sure you know what i mean cuz you know the pics i take from the flickr Set !
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Exactly. Your photos are adequate proof of what a few tweaks here & there can do to overall picture quality, with any phone.
But nearly all your photos are 8MP. I found a couple at 20MP. People want to know why 20MP cannot do good shots if 1020 at 38.3MP can do it. But you can if people look at these two
20MP
8MP
The 8MP is correctly exposed, but if you used ISO 200 with the 20MP it also would have been the same.
Plus you use the slowest shutter speeds possible ie 0.8s going no faster than 0.3s. Other than the 1020 which can go as slow as 4s, none of the cameras reviewed can go slower than 0.3s. In this review the slowest shutter on the Z1 is 1/8 and they still got blur in one. So people will look at this review and think G2 can do better outdoors night shots than Z1

One Twelve said:
Exactly. Your photos are adequate proof of what a few tweaks here & there can do to overall picture quality, with any phone.
But nearly all your photos are 8MP. I found a couple at 20MP. People want to know why 20MP cannot do good shots if 1020 at 38.3MP can do it. But you can if people look at these two
20MP
8MP
The 8MP is correctly exposed, but if you used ISO 200 with the 20MP it also would have been the same.
Plus you use the slowest shutter speeds possible ie 0.8s going no faster than 0.3s. Other than the 1020 which can go as slow as 4s, none of the cameras reviewed can go slower than 0.3s. In this review the slowest shutter on the Z1 is 1/8 and they still got blur in one. So people will look at this review and think G2 can do better outdoors night shots than Z1
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its the night scene that puts the shutter to 1/8 ... Also i doubt the LG can get close to the low light performance of the Z1 Due to Sensor Size 1/2.3" vs 1/3"
And Yes the 20MP i guess its as if a RAW image ... but thats my sensation am not sure. Also i noticed that with 20MP the Bionz Procss. imaging Ship is Deactivated.
i Guess Sony Tweaked the Phone for the Optimium 8MP with Pixels Binning and the BionZ image ship.
the last pic i posted the FOG is amazingly clean ... believe me some Hand As Shot DigiCams will not capture the Fog that clean.
i will try to take some 20MP vs 8MP in other time

They did not use night mode in any shots. It was all auto for every camera. if auto was so good then why are these modes present in the camera in the first place. They are specialised presets for special situations. Auto cannot do it all (unless its iphone) that is why they are there.
Remember wezzel's laser shots, they were ISO 200 with +2EV.
(in theory) ISO 200 +2EV is like ISO 800 with 0EV. Not sure if its completely linear.
Difference is ISO 200 is fine grain whereas ISO 800 is more grainy.
One thing i notice in the first LG night shot, G2 is using ISO 800 but the shot is quite clear, I do not see much noise. Also in the last one the 1020 is using ISO 4000. Again very clear shot. If you try ISO 4000 with Z1 you will get an oil painting.
Clean low light shots with Z1 = low ISO + slow shutter speed (+ EV if necessary).
Z1 sensor cannot produce clean shots with high ISO. Which is a pity beause shutter speed will be much faster so chances of blur are much lower. The result is you got to work harder to get good shots with Z1 but when you do the others cannot match it, barring the 1020 ofc.
20MP jpg is not RAW its jpg.
RAW is TIFF ie no compression.

One Twelve said:
They did not use night mode in any shots. It was all auto for every camera. if auto was so good then why are these modes present in the camera in the first place. They are specialised presets for special situations. Auto cannot do it all (unless its iphone) that is why they are there.
Remember wezzel's laser shots, they were ISO 200 with +2EV.
(in theory) ISO 200 +2EV is like ISO 800 with 0EV. Not sure if its completely linear.
Difference is ISO 200 is fine grain whereas ISO 800 is more grainy.
One thing i notice in the first LG night shot, G2 is using ISO 800 but the shot is quite clear, I do not see much noise. Also in the last one the 1020 is using ISO 4000. Again very clear shot. If you try ISO 4000 with Z1 you will get an oil painting.
Clean low light shots with Z1 = low ISO + slow shutter speed (+ EV if necessary).
Z1 sensor cannot produce clean shots with high ISO. Which is a pity beause shutter speed will be much faster so chances of blur are much lower. The result is you got to work harder to get good shots with Z1 but when you do the others cannot match it, barring the 1020 ofc.
20MP jpg is not RAW its jpg.
RAW is TIFF ie no compression.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also the SA somtimes kicks the ISO up to 1600 with the night mode i've seen it many times. SA puts a night scene down beside a guy running (i guess it means hand held) the average is ISO 1600 with 1/8 exposure (the rail way photo in my set) and yes leads to blur free images as advertised.
Also did you noticed that the LG pics the over all scene is not bright just the Centre where it is meant to focus .. in contraversry the Z1 all around scene is much brighter the church photo is a good example.
if i tab to focus on the church i guess u could get similar results with lg

That's good review!

One Twelve said:
They did not use night mode in any shots. It was all auto for every camera. if auto was so good then why are these modes present in the camera in the first place. They are specialised presets for special situations. Auto cannot do it all (unless its iphone) that is why they are there.
Remember wezzel's laser shots, they were ISO 200 with +2EV.
(in theory) ISO 200 +2EV is like ISO 800 with 0EV. Not sure if its completely linear.
Difference is ISO 200 is fine grain whereas ISO 800 is more grainy.
One thing i notice in the first LG night shot, G2 is using ISO 800 but the shot is quite clear, I do not see much noise. Also in the last one the 1020 is using ISO 4000. Again very clear shot. If you try ISO 4000 with Z1 you will get an oil painting.
Clean low light shots with Z1 = low ISO + slow shutter speed (+ EV if necessary).
Z1 sensor cannot produce clean shots with high ISO. Which is a pity beause shutter speed will be much faster so chances of blur are much lower. The result is you got to work harder to get good shots with Z1 but when you do the others cannot match it, barring the 1020 ofc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So basically what I take from this is that as long as you take the time to learn how to optimize the settings for certain scenes that auto superior doesn't handle well, we've got one of the best smartphone cameras available
Sent from my Sony Xperia Z1

omnius1 said:
So basically what I take from this is that as long as you take the time to learn how to optimize the settings for certain scenes that auto superior doesn't handle well, we've got one of the best smartphone cameras available
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Yes but many will not be prepared to put in that effort.
Once you've driven 10,000 miles handling a car is second nature, almost reflexive.
Once you've taken over a 1000 photos the same applies with any phone camera. Ideally, with experience, you see a shot, know what exposure to use regardless of the lighting, click and get it right more times than not. This is a skill. People want to get it right with no skill. In good light you can get away with it, once the light dips it gets harder.
Phone cameras still do not help to get a good shot unlike dslrs. You have no clue what the sensor sees and decides to use for ISO/shutter speed, i wish it would display that info before taking the photo. What it thinks TTL (through the lens) is the best setting to use to get a properly exposed shot. So you take the shot, preview, tweak, try again until right. It could be easier.
There is no over-exposure warning. This is something i think should be possible with current tech. Its still too easy to overexpose in good light as well as low light with a well lit subject. Phone cameras by default, operate in aperture priority mode, cannot change aperture so they pick the right shutter speed/ISO to get the best shot. They choose wrong on occasion.
SCN modes is an attempt to fill that gap. Again these are presets that pick values from a given set given what the camera sees. These modes are supposed to be user-friendly but if you know what settings to use its much simpler to just use those and be done with it. Now you're thinking like a photographer with a dslr ergo know how to get the best shot with the device you have for a given subject's lighting.
The one thing that is still not possible is freezing motion in low light. That requires a sensor with low noise at higher ISO. But you can freeze motion to some extent if the subject is not more than 5 feet away with flash but that's about it.

One Twelve said:
Side street
LG (Shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto) Since this one is more clear, i assume it was taken at a faster shutter speed.
Z1 (1/8s, ISO 400, 20MP, Auto).
Reference (2 sec, ISO 160, 15.9MP, Auto)
Obvious camera shake if you see the moneygram sign on the left. camera shake affects picture quality.
1020 (1/8, ISO 800, 38.2MP, Auto) This one is clear.
Bench
LG (shutter speed & ISO unknown, 13MP, Auto)
Z1 (1/8, ISO 400, 13, Auto)
Clear example where manual EV compensation would have brought out more details in both cameras and they could have used a lower ISO. So you can see how Auto can get it wrong some times. And scores averaged off auto will be equally flawed.
1020 (0.3s, ISO 4000,38.2MP, 17.2MB)
Reference (0.3s, ISO 1250, 15.9MP, 5.5MB, Low contrast, Manual WB)
It's curious why the LG dropped shutter & ISO info twice out of 4 pictures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think i found the reason why the G2 dropped the shutter & ISO info from the exif of those two pics, it switched automatically into night mode. S4 has a setting for this, switch to night mode if light detected is too low. Maybe the one in the reviewers G2 did so as well.
G2 does not mention scene type in the exif which is sloppy. But the S4 does, night mode basically means a kind of HDR, it takes a number of images and then combines them. Result is ISO & shutter speed are missing in the exif. At least samsung indicates that the S4 went into night mode. You have to wait while these images are combined before taking the next shot, so there is some delay here. Brian Klug goes into this in his anandtech review on the S4's camera.
Check out the exifs of these two pics from the G2..
Low light
Night mode
1/8 seems to be the slowest speed the G2 can go to. After that its exposure compensation image combo magic. Same applies for S3, S4, Note 3 & Note 2 as well.
!/8 + 1/8 + 1/8... is still 1/8 with less blur given the faster shutter time but you still have to hold the camera still for the duration and end up with a 1/8 exposure compensated shot.
---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------
ashouhdy said:
its the night scene that puts the shutter to 1/8 ... Also i doubt the LG can get close to the low light performance of the Z1 Due to Sensor Size 1/2.3" vs 1/3"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No chance for G2 to beat Z1 in low light.
Z1 sensor is 33% bigger.
Z1 aperture is 50% bigger
Z1 shutter speed is 6x slower (if its confirmed 1/8 is slowest speed for G2)
Plus you can exposure compensate 2+ on Z1

Photography information/assistance/ideas

Paid hobbiest photographer here, I thought I'd share my knowledge of photography and give an opportunity for others to do the same
For pictures on the G4, they are can have the opportunity to be amazing. Let me start off by saying that LG did an amazing job with their auto mode. Whenever there is a large contrast (sun behind a mountain for example) I use auto for the hdr. When in doubt, use auto mode. The results are almost always stunning. (I also use auto for landscape pictures when it's a large subject, like a meadow for example)
That being said, there's another level that it can be taken to with manual mode. Let me explain each function from left to right.
WB: White balance - This option controls how "warm" or "cold" your pictures are. This is the most confusing option, and also the hardest to explain. Basically the lower the number, the more white your light source is. Thankfully LG put in recommendations as to what to set the white balance at based on your light source, but ultimately it's up to your personal tastes. One of the best things about this is that you can see the effects of changing the white balance on real time, making it easy to select your preferred look. I commonly increase the white balance on order to get a more saturated picture, with brighter, more vivid colors (but that's just my preference). White balance is one of the easiest to change in editing however, so I wouldn't worry too much about it as of right now.
MF: Manual Focus - This option is something I tend to leave alone, because of how well the laser focus works. As the name implies, this setting controls the focus of the camera. I find it useful in very close-up situations where the auto-focus is struggling to set, or when you want to focus on a specific object in your scene. Due to the laser auto-focus however, I mostly leave this alone, especially because it's easy to be just a tad off, and is impossible to fix in editing.
+/-: generic exposure - the only way you can have this enabled is if you uncheck "AE-L" on the far right. Adjusting this makes your pictures lighter or darker. Rather then messing with the iso and shutter speed yourself, the phone does it for you. I can honestly say I have never used this, mostly because I have a certain object I want to capture that requires either a fast shutter speed, or low iso.
ISO: Sensitivity to Light - A very useful tool, and completely foreign to the smartphone world (I think) until the LG G4. This is mostly changed based on what type of picture you're trying to capture. No matter what picture you are taking however, A LOWER ISO IS ALWAYS BETTER. While a higher iso will allow more light to be captured resulting in brighter pictures, it will also increase the "noise" or the graininess of the picture. Normally if I'm taking pictures of landscape or a still object, I'll keep the iso at 50, but at a maximum of 150 in order to keep the image clear and sharp. If I'm taking a picture of action or I'm trying the stop the motion I'll go up to an iso of 700 (but once again it's up to your personal preference)
S: Shutter Speed - one of my favorite things about this phone is being able to set the shutter speed. The longer the shutter speed, the more light will be able to get in. However, as a trade off, it's harder to keep the phone still, and anything in motion will show up blurry. A faster shutter speed will stop motion, meaning you can get really cool action shots, or freeze pretty much anything you want. The downside of this being normally you have to turn up the iso in order to compensate for the lack of light, meaning a grainier shot.
AE-L: Exposure Lock - All this does is toggle whether or not you want the camera to change the shutter speed and iso or not. As soon as you change the shutter speed or iso, the toggle is switched and the phone will not adjust these settings until you press the toggle.
Hope this helped let me know if you would like specific examples of how to use the shutter speed and iso to take some really cool shots!
-rifievans

Thanks for posting this. Complementary to the information you provided, here is below a previous post I wrote in the G4 pictures thread with some shooting tips as well. It was at the same time a mini review of the ProShot app (which allows more shooting controls), but the concepts described are relevant to any other application.
----
Here are my thoughts on the ProShot camera app followed by tips to maximize your image quality.
This is a paid app and you can dowload it here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.riseupgames.proshot2
This is a great app for photo enthusiasts and it currently offers some unique shooting modes with the LG G4.
I am not talking about scene modes like beach, snow, food, etc... - this app doesn't have that - but about the shooting functionalities you usually get on an advanced camera or SLR. The closest photo app offering a lot of manual features is Camera FV-5 that I also like.
Before going into the details, let's go through some photography basics.
The image exposure you are getting depends on the following parameters:
- Aperture: It is fixed on the LG G4 at F1.8
- Shutter speed: A slow shutter speed will allow more light to be captured but increase the risk of blur (sometimes a slow shutter speed is wanted to get light trails or water blur and the phone must be very steady for such cases). A fast shutter speed will freeze the motion.
- ISO: The image quality is maximized at ISO 50 (I have made tests and can confirm that). For a same exposure, choosing a higher ISO allows you to select a faster shutter speed (to counter shake / motion blur) but you will get more noise in the picture.
The following picture illustrates how these parameters work:
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As the aperture is fixed to F1.8 on the G4, going forward I will only cover the 2 following values: Shutter speed and ISO.
LG's camera, FV-5 and ProShot offer the following modes:
- Auto: Shutter speed and ISO are chosen automatically. You can play with the exposure compensation to undexpose / overexpose the pciture (the camera will adjust one of the 2 values, sometimes both).
- Full manual: You have to manuall select the Shutter speed AND ISO values. The exposure compensation is not available in this mode (it becomes irrelevant).
So what if I want to shoot at a specific ISO but don't want to adjust the Shutter speed everytime the light changes (or vice-versa) ?
This is where ProShot comes into the game with 2 unique functionalities (not offered on LG's camera or FV-5):
- You can select an ISO value and the camera will automatically select a Shutter speed. You can still use exposure compensation if you want.
- You can select a shutter speed value and the camera will automatically select the ISO. You can also still use exposure compensation if you want.
Ok that's good but what do I make with that ? Here are shooting recommandations to maximize your image quality all the time using the ProShot app:
1. With good light and static subject(s), use P mode and set the ISO value to 50. You will get the best image quality possible on the phone with that setup. If you want to undexpose / overexpose the picture, you can still use exposure compensation (which will affect the shutter speed, but automatically). If you start getting shake / motion blur (low light or fast moving subject, go to point 2.
2. Determine the minimum shutter you can use without getting shake / motion blur (let's say for example 1/8 sec with steady hands and a static subject). Use M mode and set up this shutter speed value. Leave ISO in "Auto". ISO will then be automatically be adjusted depending on the light. (EDIT: You can also use C1 or C2 mode if you want to apply exposure compensation.)
If you have multiple chances to shoot the scenes, you can use burst mode - even in RAW + JPEG, something not possible with the defaut G4 app - and lower the shutter speed a bit under your comfort level (1/4 sec for example). Then review your series and only keep the sharpest picture.
Because of the above shooting flexibility available in ProShot, it is currently my favorite photo app with the LG G4.
Please note that the slowest shutter speed currently available is 0.7 sec in manual mode (the stock camera allows to go up to 30 sec).

But since the G4's Display is not accurate in white balance (I think it's closer to 8000K, which results in a blueish tint), won't the photos taken look very different on a calibrated display? Is there anyway to adjust the display's temperature to closer to 6500K? permanently?

hyyoje said:
But since the G4's Display is not accurate in white balance (I think it's closer to 8000K, which results in a blueish tint), won't the photos taken look very different on a calibrated display? Is there anyway to adjust the display's temperature to closer to 6500K? permanently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is different screen temps, mine is warmer...

hyyoje said:
But since the G4's Display is not accurate in white balance (I think it's closer to 8000K, which results in a blueish tint), won't the photos taken look very different on a calibrated display? Is there anyway to adjust the display's temperature to closer to 6500K? permanently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never noticed the temperature of the screen... But if that's true then yes the pictures will look different on a calibrated display.

rifievans said:
Paid hobbiest photographer here, I thought I'd share my knowledge of photography and give an opportunity for others to do the same
For pictures on the G4, they are can have the opportunity to be amazing. Let me start off by saying that LG did an amazing job with their auto mode. Whenever there is a large contrast (sun behind a mountain for example) I use auto for the hdr. When in doubt, use auto mode. The results are almost always stunning. (I also use auto for landscape pictures when it's a large subject, like a meadow for example)
That being said, there's another level that it can be taken to with manual mode. Let me explain each function from left to right.
WB: White balance - This option controls how "warm" or "cold" your pictures are. This is the most confusing option, and also the hardest to explain. Basically the lower the number, the more white your light source is. Thankfully LG put in recommendations as to what to set the white balance at based on your light source, but ultimately it's up to your personal tastes. One of the best things about this is that you can see the effects of changing the white balance on real time, making it easy to select your preferred look. I commonly increase the white balance on order to get a more saturated picture, with brighter, more vivid colors (but that's just my preference). White balance is one of the easiest to change in editing however, so I wouldn't worry too much about it as of right now.
MF: Manual Focus - This option is something I tend to leave alone, because of how well the laser focus works. As the name implies, this setting controls the focus of the camera. I find it useful in very close-up situations where the auto-focus is struggling to set, or when you want to focus on a specific object in your scene. Due to the laser auto-focus however, I mostly leave this alone, especially because it's easy to be just a tad off, and is impossible to fix in editing.
+/-: generic exposure - the only way you can have this enabled is if you uncheck "AE-L" on the far right. Adjusting this makes your pictures lighter or darker. Rather then messing with the iso and shutter speed yourself, the phone does it for you. I can honestly say I have never used this, mostly because I have a certain object I want to capture that requires either a fast shutter speed, or low iso.
ISO: Sensitivity to Light - A very useful tool, and completely foreign to the smartphone world (I think) until the LG G4. This is mostly changed based on what type of picture you're trying to capture. No matter what picture you are taking however, A LOWER ISO IS ALWAYS BETTER. While a higher iso will allow more light to be captured resulting in brighter pictures, it will also increase the "noise" or the graininess of the picture. Normally if I'm taking pictures of landscape or a still object, I'll keep the iso at 50, but at a maximum of 150 in order to keep the image clear and sharp. If I'm taking a picture of action or I'm trying the stop the motion I'll go up to an iso of 700 (but once again it's up to your personal preference)
S: Shutter Speed - one of my favorite things about this phone is being able to set the shutter speed. The longer the shutter speed, the more light will be able to get in. However, as a trade off, it's harder to keep the phone still, and anything in motion will show up blurry. A faster shutter speed will stop motion, meaning you can get really cool action shots, or freeze pretty much anything you want. The downside of this being normally you have to turn up the iso in order to compensate for the lack of light, meaning a grainier shot.
AE-L: Exposure Lock - All this does is toggle whether or not you want the camera to change the shutter speed and iso or not. As soon as you change the shutter speed or iso, the toggle is switched and the phone will not adjust these settings until you press the toggle.
Hope this helped let me know if you would like specific examples of how to use the shutter speed and iso to take some really cool shots!
-rifievans
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, thanks for the tips! I am finaly somewhat comfortable with the lg gl stock camera app. But I was wondering wether there is something i can do to lower the iso below 50, since a shutter speed above 2 seconds will result in a over bright picture, even with iso on 50. Anything to change this?
Thanks

Is the stock camera app the best one to use with LG G4?

WTF? said:
Is the stock camera app the best one to use with LG G4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Proshot is better imo if you don't need longer than 0.7s shutter speed/exposure time.
It allows to turn off the Noise Reduction which LG has tuned for certain ISO's to be a bit heavy handed.

goofball2k said:
Proshot is better imo if you don't need longer than 0.7s shutter speed/exposure time.
It allows to turn off the Noise Reduction which LG has tuned for certain ISO's to be a bit heavy handed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did that kernal mod to get the quality of jpg's much better, it turns off the compression, I guess?

WTF? said:
I did that kernal mod to get the quality of jpg's much better, it turns off the compression, I guess?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe so. It doesn't really help the noise reduction though, to my knowledge.

LeonardWoody said:
Hi, thanks for the tips! I am finaly somewhat comfortable with the lg gl stock camera app. But I was wondering wether there is something i can do to lower the iso below 50, since a shutter speed above 2 seconds will result in a over bright picture, even with iso on 50. Anything to change this?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously u tried to take some daylight long exposure shots where photos became unusable, right? As a matter of ISO 50 is the lowest as far as I know for any camera. Even many DSLR has 100 as lowest, but there u can adjust the aperture. So bad luck for smartphone users. If u really want to be creative, there's a video in HighOnAndriod youtube channel on how to take long exposure shots in daylight by using F-stop ND filters. U can apply that.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 01:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------
Nice thread. I wanted to create such a thread for LG G4 photography lovers to share our ideas and techniques. I request OP to change the thread title a little bit so that even more experienced photographers share their knowledge with newbees like us.
Anyway I want to share a few gadgets/accessories which I bought recently (still to come in my hand).
1. Beastgrip Pro
2. 52mm Hoya 1000 ND filter
3. 52mm Hoya Polarizer
4. 52mm Fotga Variable ND filter
5. 37 to 52mm step up ring adapter
6. 48 to 52mm step up ring adapted
7. Kenko 37mm 0.47x Super Wideangle / Fisheye + Macro lens (Cheap, not cheapest)
8. Kenko 37mm 0.5x Wideangle + Macro lens (Cheap, not cheapest)
9. A Generic 37mm Wideangle + Macro lens
As I haven't yet received these products in my hand, I will post reviews when they are available. But u get my purpose of buying these, right?
1. To take long exposure shots as day time
2. To take longer exposure shots at night
3. To take wideangle landscape long exposure shots
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

LeonardWoody said:
Hi, thanks for the tips! I am finaly somewhat comfortable with the lg gl stock camera app. But I was wondering wether there is something i can do to lower the iso below 50, since a shutter speed above 2 seconds will result in a over bright picture, even with iso on 50. Anything to change this?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See this post
For another way to attach the filter see this google plus post by Dave J.

nipun1110 said:
[/COLOR]Nice thread. I wanted to create such a thread for LG G4 photography lovers to share our ideas and techniques. I request OP to change the thread title a little bit so that even more experienced photographers share their knowledge with newbees like us.
Anyway I want to share a few gadgets/accessories which I bought recently (still to come in my hand).
1. Beastgrip Pro
2. 52mm Hoya 1000 ND filter
3. 52mm Hoya Polarizer
4. 52mm Fotga Variable ND filter
5. 37 to 52mm step up ring adapter
6. 48 to 52mm step up ring adapted
7. Kenko 37mm 0.47x Super Wideangle / Fisheye + Macro lens (Cheap, not cheapest)
8. Kenko 37mm 0.5x Wideangle + Macro lens (Cheap, not cheapest)
9. A Generic 37mm Wideangle + Macro lens
As I haven't yet received these products in my hand, I will post reviews when they are available. But u get my purpose of buying these, right?
1. To take long exposure shots as day time
2. To take longer exposure shots at night
3. To take wideangle landscape long exposure shots
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately (as far as I know) you can't change the title of the thread after it is created. However I completly agree with you in that this is a terrible title. I dont know what I was doing

so i have got the products in my hand and i will post the reviews soon

Strange behavior of noise reduction in stock camera - with samples

Update: I no longer have the LG G4 so I cannot help with this. You are free to use this thread to continue the discussion!
I've been playing around with the stock camera's manual mode, trying to figure out why sometimes pictures in both day light and low light have major noise reduction (NR) and other times pictures have some noise but details are preserved. At first I thought it was a software bug where NR wasn't correctly applied, but then I realized it had to do with the camera software and ISO.
I tested using ISO 50, 300, and 500.
I found that from ISO 50 to 400, NR is heavily applied and details are lost, making the G4 the same as other phone's cameras in day light. I took some pictures at a swimming pool on a sunny day and I didn't like the results with stock camera.
From ISO 450 (or 500) and up NR is reduced so much and details are mostly preserved.
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
That is a weird behavior. In DSLRs it is the opposite. Between ISO 100 and 800 there isn't much NR because there is no need for it and then you start getting a bit more NR, or you can disable it, usually it's called High ISO Noise Reduction. I'm not sure what LG was thinking to apply so much NR at ISO 50, seems like it's low ISO NR with LG lol. It does need some NR because the sensor is small but this is too much at such a low ISO. I really like that there isn't much NR applied after ISO 450/500.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
I know I can solve that by using Raw but I don't always have time to process the .dng file and I know I can use ProShot and disabling NR but there's nothing like the stock camera on the G4.
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Is there a software tweak in build.prop that we can apply to disable noise reduction like with the HTC M9?
EDIT - Camera mod:
defcomg made a mod that disables noise reduction in LG's stock G4 camera. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63025959&postcount=71
You must be rooted.
Go to System/Priv-app and copy/backup the LGCameraApp folder somewhere safe.
Take the LG camera apk file from defcomg's post above and put in the root of LGCameraApp folder in system/priv-app.
Overwrite and then launch camera. It will crash first time and then work fine.
Issues:
Clicking on Mode in Auto will always crash though, needs to be fixed.
Noise reduction is applied even in Auto. I would have liked it only in manual but seems like there's no way to do this yet. So, defcomg is trying to add a button that lets us disable noise reduction on the fly, that would be awesome because in higher ISO, there is a lot of chroma noise.

I have noticed the same thing myself. The G3 did the same thing. Even in bright light at ISO50, minor details are lost due to noise reduction. The advantage to the G3 was that you could use XCam LG to turn off the noise reduction. I wish he would develop it to work with the G4 also.

GibMcFragger said:
I have noticed the same thing myself. The G3 did the same thing. Even in bright light at ISO50, minor details are lost due to noise reduction. The advantage to the G3 was that you could use XCam LG to turn off the noise reduction. I wish he would develop it to work with the G4 also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember XCam from the G2 also, but I think the one for G3 is better with more options. If I recall correctly, the dev said that he doesn't have a G4 so he won't develop for it. Not sure though. I hope he does it too.
I had a Panasonic GX7 (Micro Four Thirds) and that camera had like 10 different settings for noise reduction, it was great lol. Wish phones get that level of control soon!
I like that HTC gives the option to change sharpness. That's also important.

Are you rooted? Do me a favor to see if I am imagining things or not.
I changed ro.lge.noise.suppression to "0" (off) in my build prop, then rebooted. I took a few pics, and I swear there is no more detail loss when zoomed in.
I just want someone else to do it and see if I'm crazy.

GibMcFragger said:
Are you rooted? Do me a favor to see if I am imagining things or not.
I changed ro.lge.noise.suppression to "0" (off) in my build prop, then rebooted. I took a few pics, and I swear there is no more detail loss when zoomed in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rooted yesterday . I'll try it out soon! I hope it works!

Ramsey said:
I rooted yesterday . I'll try it out soon! I hope it works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never mind. I took a few more. I think I'm crazy. Damn, lol. I was hoping I found it.

GibMcFragger said:
Never mind. I took a few more. I think I'm crazy. Damn, lol. I was hoping I found it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I tried it, no changes even after reboot =(.
That noise suppression could be for calls or mic .

Ramsey said:
Ok I tried it, no changes even after reboot =(.
That noise suppression could be for calls or mic .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just verified that. I'm an idiot. It IS the noise suppression for calls. If you go into your call options in the dialer, the noise suppression option will now be missing...
Lol oops. Just change it back to 1, then reboot and it's back.

GibMcFragger said:
I just verified that. I'm an idiot. It IS the noise suppression for calls. If you go into your call options in the dialer, the noise suppression option will now be missing...
Lol oops. Just change it back to 1, then reboot and it's back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No prob lol.
This was a line added to build-prop to disable some noise reduction on the M9. I don't know if it will work with the G4 but it's worth trying. I don't have time now, maybe later I'll try it:
persist.camera.qcwnr.enabled=0

Ramsey said:
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if its a question of where focus got set. With the ISO 500 focus was spot on but with the ISO 50 maybe focus got set on the sheet further away.The patterns on the sheet on the ISO 50 look more clear compared to the ISO 500.
I can't explain the ISO 300 one though. The fur seems soft like the ISO 50.
Try to get more distance between you and the subject, at least 2m so we can eliminate focus as a parameter.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is, its a damn good job. Face detect shows as one.
Does face detect get triggered in manual ? because with one of the shots in the photo thread i notice face detect was zero in the long exposure portrait.

What is weird is that it's mostly occuring on human skin. As said before thanks God we have RAW to control the NR and the jpeg compression. What is crazy too is that the difference is night and day between jpeg and raw even when saving at 100% jpeg quality using Lightroom on PC based on a dng it will recompress too much the pixels resulting in some color degradation. Perhaps LG is using a different color preset than the known adobe rgb ones...
Sent from my LG-H815 using XDA Free mobile app

Ramsey said:
I've been playing around with the stock camera's manual mode, trying to figure out why sometimes pictures in both day light and low light have major noise reduction (NR) and other times pictures have some noise but details are preserved. At first I thought it was a software bug where NR wasn't correctly applied, but then I realized it had to do with the camera software and ISO.
I tested using ISO 50, 300, and 500.
I found that from ISO 50 to 400, NR is heavily applied and details are lost, making the G4 the same as other phone's cameras in day light. I took some pictures at a swimming pool on a sunny day and I didn't like the results with stock camera.
From ISO 450 (or 500) and up NR is reduced so much and details are mostly preserved.
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
That is a weird behavior. In DSLRs it is the opposite. Between ISO 100 and 800 there isn't much NR because there is no need for it and then you start getting a bit more NR, or you can disable it, usually it's called High ISO Noise Reduction. I'm not sure what LG was thinking to apply so much NR at ISO 50, seems like it's low ISO NR with LG lol. It does need some NR because the sensor is small but this is too much at such a low ISO. I really like that there isn't much NR applied after ISO 450/500.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
I know I can solve that by using Raw but I don't always have time to process the .dng file and I know I can use ProShot and disabling NR but there's nothing like the stock camera on the G4.
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Is there a software tweak in build.prop that we can apply to disable noise reduction like with the HTC M9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but when setting ISO then it must be at Manual mode right ?
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.

s3alon said:
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was my first thought with the 1/8. But the ISO 300 is 1/24 or fast enough. Even at 1/8 you can get clear shots with the OIS.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
manual focus would be another way to eliminate any auto focus issues.

One Twelve said:
I wonder if its a question of where focus got set. With the ISO 500 focus was spot on but with the ISO 50 maybe focus got set on the sheet further away.The patterns on the sheet on the ISO 50 look more clear compared to the ISO 500.
I can't explain the ISO 300 one though. The fur seems soft like the ISO 50.
Try to get more distance between you and the subject, at least 2m so we can eliminate focus as a parameter.
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
If it is, its a damn good job. Face detect shows as one.
Does face detect get triggered in manual ? because with one of the shots in the photo thread i notice face detect was zero in the long exposure portrait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pretty sure focus is set correctly and there is no blur from me shaking. The OIS is pretty good on the G4. The problem lies in LG's post processing where in lower ISO it is using aggressive noise reduction.
Face detect isn't activated in manual mode. I may be wrong though.
The one of my daughter isn't shot in manual mode, it was auto. The focus point may not be fully on her face, perhaps her neck area, but I have other shots that I won't share where I did focus on faces and the skin is too smooth. Tried using ProShot and the faces don't have that fake smoothing, they look natural and normal.
The NR is too aggressive so that it makes it appear as if I focused wrong. Even if the focus is on the sheet with ISO 50, why aren't there any fine details on the sheet like with the ISO 500? That's the aggressive NR coming into play.

s3alon said:
Sorry but when setting ISO then it must be at Manual mode right ?
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is in manual mode as stated in the beginning of my post, but note that the pic of my daughter was in auto mode.
If you zoom in you can notice that there is no shaking, that's just the effect of aggressive noise reduction below ISO 450 .
Look at ISO 500, notice that the fur has more detail. You can see a lot more noise in that picture over the ISO 300 one. That's how LG decided to post process and I don't like that low ISO has aggressive NR.

One Twelve said:
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I mean by that is that auto mode has a special night mode that activates in low light and I think it takes away our ability to see ISO when that happens. Shots take longer to be saved also, but the results are pretty good. Manual mode doesn't have that feature and ends up with a lot of ugly noise in low light. I was just stating that I wasn't comparing the difference between those 2 modes, in case someone wanted to say that that's the night mode from auto mode causing that behavior.

Ramsey said:
I am pretty sure focus is set correctly and there is no blur from me shaking. The OIS is pretty good on the G4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, there is no blur that i can see in the 1/8 shot. Looks quite sharp. A little too sharp with patterns on the bedsheet just in front of the furry animal for ISO 50. So its not about shaking. But i'm not sure if focus got set properly.
My point is more about dof when focused on subjects less than 2m away. The G4 has a tendency to mess this up at times, picking the background instead of the foreground ie your intended target. So if you camera to subject distance is little over 2m then focus is at infinity or if closer than 2m you use manual focus then you get around AF, if indeed AF is responsible.
he problem lies in LG's post processing where in lower ISO it is using aggressive noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me more shots where we can eliminate focus as a potential cause.
Face detect isn't activated in manual mode. I may be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if face detect isn't triggered in manual then there will be no beauty face.
The one of my daughter isn't shot in manual mode, it was auto. The focus point may not be fully on her face, perhaps her neck area, but I have other shots that I won't share where I did focus on faces and the skin is too smooth. Tried using ProShot and the faces don't have that fake smoothing, they look natural and normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Focus is perfect in your daughters shot. Action shot, crisp, what a lovely photo it is
The NR is too aggressive so that it makes it appear as if I focused wrong. Even if the focus is on the sheet with ISO 50, why aren't there any fine details on the sheet like with the ISO 500? That's the aggressive NR coming into play.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me more examples.
---------- Post added at 05:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 AM ----------
Ramsey said:
What I mean by that is that auto mode has a special night mode that activates in low light and I think it takes away our ability to see ISO when that happens. Shots take longer to be saved also, but the results are pretty good. Manual mode doesn't have that feature and ends up with a lot of ugly noise in low light. I was just stating that I wasn't comparing the difference between those 2 modes, in case someone wanted to say that that's the night mode from auto mode causing that behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, your 1/8 ISO 50 is not a night shot. Had to be taken in manual.
Am doubting focus only in your shots. I am not convinced as yet that there is aggressive NR in a manual shot at low ISO. You did not use manual focus here it was AF. I think AF worked for ISO 500 but maybe not for ISO 50. That i think is the reason the toy at ISO 500 looks more clear.
I cannot say about ISO 300 though.
If you still did not understand, then see this link.
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In the above you can see its more clear towards the center than top or bottom. For ISO 500, imagine the toy is in the centre, AF got it right.
i think with the ISO 50, toy is in the centre but AF picked the top. so it looks like this.
This happens when subject to camera distance is less than 2m. You say NR, i say (maybe) focus

Shot in manual with jpg and dng and compare how aggressive the noise reduction is applied to processed jpg as compare to dng even at low iso.
Dng output shows too much noise even at low iso and with adequate light though i have no other phone for comparison. This might be the reason why lg apply too much NR? Its like saying g4 camera is bad.

Yeah, you're not crazy. This is a serious issue.
I was coming from a Galaxy S6 and I bought the LG G4. Went to the park, took some photos of my son. Got home, saw them on the PC, zoomed in.....
Oh my Josh. It was horrible. Lots and lots of noise. And yes, the skin was the problem.
Took the same shots with a Galaxy S6 and they were just fine. Lots of detail, noise not even remotely close.
Bright sunny day outside.

Ramsey said:
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
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Your photo indicates face detect 1.
So let me show you some counter examples from one of the members here. Both are presumably in auto so face detect triggers when it can detect otherwise it does not indicate it detected a face.
20150726_170009 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 0 so in theory no beauty face.
20150726_170024 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 2
See the little boy's face. Is there any beauty face there ? because i cannot tell the difference between the two. These are good examples as they are in the same lighting, similar pose with same subject, with and without face detect.
Another pair
20150726_164936 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 0
20150726_164941 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 1
Any difference ? can't see it.
Check also the photos in his two albums, many portraits in there. i don't recall noticing any extra processing. This is the H815 but it should not make a difference.
Thanks @shurensly95 and do you have any opinion on this 'beauty face theory' ?

Comparison of camera modes - Shooting in Low-Light

Had a little bit of free-time so decided to do a simple test. What differences does the different camera modes provide in Low-Light?
Here is the album for the pictures: https://goo.gl/photos/iFc9Keoh9um1beks5
All shots were handheld, 8MP 16:9, landscape orientation. Unfortunately, I don't really have a DSLR sample for comparison but you can take my word that there wasn't much light (among the shots, SA and Handheld Twilight are closest to how dark the scene actually was but in reality, it was still a bit darker). On to the analysis:
Superior Auto - Night-Scene detected, NO tripod icon Even though it selected Night-Scene, it still seemed to select a rather high-ISO in this case, making it quite useless. How do you get the Tripod icon to appear when handheld? Do you have any tips for that or how long I have to wait for it to appear?
Manual Mode (ISO Auto, Metering Multi, Single Auto-Focus) - based on many observations, ISO in Manual mode generally is 1/2 of the ISO that is selected for Superior Auto. Most of the time I shoot stuff in this setting. Curiously, did anybody notice that the "Image Stabilizer" option disappeared?
Night Portrait - based on observations, seems to select a balance of the lowest ISO it could get with the slowest shutter-speed it can have to have a balanced exposure of the scene WITHOUT motion blur. This in contrast to the Night Scene mode.
Night Scene - based on observations, seems to prioritize getting the lowest ISO it can and slowest shutter-speed to get the best exposure BUT the main difference with Night Portrait is it does not care about motion blur! And yes, the shutter speed it selected was almost 1 sec but I have to be honest, it really took me quite a few tries to get that clear a shot without motion blur. You might also notice some wonky focus on the right-side.
Handheld Twilight - not really sure what this does but to me seems to perform like HDR? Takes a couple of pics then stitches them together to preserve detail? If you compare to the Superior Auto shot, it seems to have more detail in comparison (e.g. the frame with etched words).
Is there a best scene for shooting? I think it would depend on what you want to prioritize. For me, I would probably leave it in Manual / Night Portrait for general shooting and put it in Night-Scene mode for landscape shots. Lack of OIS is sad but not a deal-breaker for me, just have to be more patient and practice having steady hands to get that good shot.
Hope this have helped you and please feel free to add any information as needed!

Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.

Timaustin2000 said:
Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.
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Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?

bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
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I wish I could tell you, lol. Tuck your elbows in against your ribs - that helps. If you can, lean your elbows on a arm rest or lean against a wall. You just need to be as steady as possible but it's tricky to do.
One tip; half pressing the camera key re-sets Superior Auto when released. If you do this a few times, it means that the mode is more active in looking for changes in exposure and behaviour and may help it come up quicker.
Once it does come up, half press and hold it and it should lock the mode so that you can find your focal point and take the shot.
Hope this helps.

I would add from myself the best results especially in detail are available throght Maual Mode 8mpx.
The autofocus is fast, low manual ISO and the usage of white balance gives really detailed pics even in low light.
It's also good to use tap-to-focus and consciously use light metering.
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
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Tripod appears actually only when the phone is set on a completely stable surface/stand.
Otherwise the phone detects any movement. Which is logical.

Thanks both for the helpful tips! Can't wait to try out and do my best to practice my 'tripod mode' Btw, what metering do you leave your phone at?

I've found to get tripod to appear reliably, shoot either while sitting or leaning/braced on something. I found it was the body swaying, and not the hands, that was causing most of the movement for me. If the tripod icon does not at first appear, take an initial shot in SA (without tripod icon), and it should then appear for the next shot.

Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.

EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
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Wow didn't know that before. Might be interesting to have a play around with those settings when I get the chance!

EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
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Interesting,.. but I've never once managed to get it to produce usable results.

i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp

Barthlon said:
i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp
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I am totally for Manual 8mpx.
Just because in real low light it's more crisp than 23mpx.
Other than that Manual 23mpx is great.

I can bring up the tripod quite consistently after the first shot (it keeps showing all those running, walking icons first time due to almost unavoidable initial motions).. Thanks to some helpful tips here, I'll have to try to get it up before the first shot.
One off-topic tip that could be pretty convenient. I'm pretty sure most of the Xperia shooters already know this. I leave the camera in my fav. manual mode (basically favorite ISO/res. & everything else set to auto or you could just pick a scene mode). I launch the camera using the awesome shutter button to get to auto mode directly. I tap the icon to launch the camera only when I need to get directly to my favorite manual 'preset'.

If we lock the iso as 200 in manual mode, I guess it is like a tripod mode, because the camera will adjust the shutter speed to match the iso , and it takes good pics in most circumstances.

Using Manual Mode (Camera) for much (much!) better photography.

I think we can all agree that the camera's auto mode can be a little weak on low light, fast moving objects, and focus.
However, I have gotten ridiculously amazing results using manual settings. To the point where I wish (if anyone from oneplus is seeing this, please please implement it) I could set up various quick-access custom manual mode presets. It would be a very good feature (does anyone know an app that has that btw?).
With a little tweaking, you can find a super sweet spot for a picture on certain conditions.
The following are examples on a very low light scenario with no image movement and minimal hand movement (exact same environment conditions on all):
- Normal mode
- Normal mode with HDR
- Normal mode with HQ
- Manual mode with ISO at 400, and shutter speed at 4s. Then touch and raise finger on screen to place exposure point, and then touch same spot and drag to place focus point.
I was shocked to see that this camera could actually capture something like that last shot in my home's corridor at 2am, when the normal modes barely gave me anything visible.
That setting is working very well for me on multiple very low light situations. Really wish we had some quick-access presets.
There are also settings which can capture images with fast moving targets (with low shutter speeds and a little higher ISOs), and usually I don't get blurry shots with focus on infinite or when selecting focus point.
Things to avoid are super high ISO's like 6400 which for some reason the normal mode is very fond of using even though on manual we can only get up to 3200.

Not sure why you would prefer blurry 4s shot over noisy high ISO shot? Yes auto mode isn't as good as the one compared to LG or Samsung flagships but even manual mode has its limitations. 1/8s is pretty much the limit of what you can shoot with OIS and that is only if you have super steady hands. Most phones with OIS can give quite good results at 1/16s and ISO 100 onwards depending on the lighting. Anything else like 1s or longer exposure and you'll need a tripod . By the way max ISO is only 3200 so you can't go higher.
Oneplus 3T noise reduction algorithm is quite bad and even at 100 ISO which should be super clean in daylight is probably one of the worst in the class.

gedas5 said:
Not sure why you would prefer blurry 4s shot over noisy high ISO shot? Yes auto mode isn't as good as the one compared to LG or Samsung flagships but even manual mode has its limitations. 1/8s is pretty much the limit of what you can shoot with OIS and that is only if you have super steady hands. Most phones with OIS can give quite good results at 1/16s and ISO 100 onwards depending on the lighting. Anything else like 1s or longer exposure and you'll need a tripod . By the way max ISO is only 3200 so you can't go higher.
Oneplus 3T noise reduction algorithm is quite bad and even at 100 ISO which should be super clean in daylight is probably one of the worst in the class.
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maybe RAW is a solution here?

I have been trying Open Camera for the last couple of days. Seems to take much better low light photos. Not as good as my 6p but at least the photos dont look over processed and washed out.