Database Users

A few notes about the camera (it isn't bad)

Lots of people are unhappy with the camera on the Z. I'm into photography and I thought I'd have a play with it to see what I could find out. I thought I'd post this as it may help people get more out of the camera and understand why they are getting bad results. I was initially very unhappy with low light shots, especially compared with my old Xperia Arc. I am now getting vastly better results.
1. "Superior Auto Mode" SUCKS. Really, really sucks.
Why?
First, it applies some sort of hyper-aggressive noise reduction/sharpening to most images. This means that even if you get a good capture, this mode then does its best to ruin it for you by artificially stuffing up details and actually adding noise (via over-aggressive processing).
Second, it does really stupid things with ISO. You may notice that on manual settings, ISO only goes up to 1600 (which is still way too high for this sensor). However, in auto, the camera will go up to at least ISO 2500 (confirmed by checking exif data). This is extremely bad for image quality and introduces huge amounts of colour noise which simply cannot be overcome by post processing. In addition, in auto mode the camera is very "high ISO happy", so it will bump up the ISO very quickly even in moderately good conditions.
What's more, while you can't use the (dubious) image stabilisation at manual ISO settings, you can you HDR. So you can get good night or dusk shots by using HDR and (say) ISO 400 in normal mode, which I deal with below.
Overall, I would avoid this mode unless you are in bright conditions or just need to get a basic shot without caring about quality.
2. HDR mode is real, but the images it takes are not taken simultaneously.
I'm sure I read Sony claiming that the sensor was in some way three layered and therefore that it could take HDR shots instantly. The reality is that while HDR mode works (weakly), it actually takes three separate shots over the space of maybe half a second.
The problem with this is that if things are moving in your image, they will either blur or have ghosts of themselves in the photo.
I verified this by taking an HDR shot of traffic at an intersection. I was able to see very dark and very light 'ghost' images of moving cars, even though the rest of the image was sharp and clear.
From this I am guessing that Sony has implemented an edge-matching algorithm to process the three exposures into one. This can cope with some camera shake, but cannot cope with actual fast moving objects. This theory is supported by the fact that the image size drops by one megapixel for HDR, i.e., the camera is giving itself a "border" to allow for shake.
It is also apparent that the level of HDR processing is very weak compared to what is possible with a proper camera and proper software. The exposure range and the amount of weight given to the high and low range exposures is very weak (confirmed by the level of saturation of the "ghost" cars in my test image, which were fairly faint).
Others have reported that the video quality suffers with HDR on. This is consistent with the HDR having to take triple the exposures then process them on the fly.
3. Image stabilisation is a gimmick
In manual mode, you can turn on image stabilisation. However, when you do this, you can't set a manual ISO level and can't use HDR. This strongly suggests that all that "image stabilisation" is really doing is messing with your ISO settings (as per "superior auto mode") to increase shutter speed in difficult conditions by ramping up ISO. This, of course, destroys quality.
4. You can use normal mode to control the ISO and get much better results, including at night
If you choose "normal" shooting mode, and then go to settings and scroll down, you will find an option to set the ISO of the camera manually.
Playing with this, I have been able to get much, much better results from the camera than are achievable either in "superior auto" mode or in any mode where ISO is set to "auto".
Specifically, I would say that the camera produces fair to excellent results (for a phone camera) at any ISO below 400, and acceptable results at 800 in some conditions. However, 1600 produces very noisy images and should be avoided if you are after image quality (as should 800, to be safe). That is consistent with the size of the camera and sensor. Even fairly good consumer DSLRs struggle at or above 1600, so it is not surprising that a tiny phone camera struggles at or above 800.
Using the camera at ISO 400 I have been able to take shots in very dark conditions which look great and show relatively little noise.
The lens is f/2.4 at its fastest, which is not ultra fast, but fast enough to capture a decent amount of light at ISO 400 or 800. You are better off sticking to these ISO levels and trying to physically stabilise your camera (i.e., balance it on something solid) than killing you image quality with higher ISO settings.
A comparison suggests that "normal" mode doesn't apply the stupid levels of sharpening and noise reduction (so called) that superior auto mode does. Shots seem to retain most of the natural sharpness and detail that the camera is clearly capable of producing.
5. The flash is bad but better than most
Direct flash generally sucks, and mobile phone flashes generally suck. Combine them for a lot of suckiness.
However, Sony has done a solid job with this flash, given the baseline difficulties with any direct flash. It doesn't seem to blast its subject and it seems to be at a low enough level to let ambient light fill in the background. I was able to get acceptable results in normal mode at ISO 400.
6. Metering
The metering on the camera is quite aggressive in its centre-weighted variation. If you are finding that photos of a light or dark object are causing the rest of the scene to blow out or go too dark, try the full averaged metering mode (which is slightly dark, but does a decent job).
7. My suggested settings
A. Daytime: Normal mode; ISO 100; HDR off (to avoid ghosts on moving objects); flash off.
B. Nightime: Normal mode; ISO 400; HDR off unless taking pics of buildings and holding camera v steady; metering full scene; flash off.
C. I want to produce horrible photos then complain: Superior Auto Mode.
I hope this helps someone! Using setting A above this camera produces some stunning pictures in good light. Using setting B it produces very good night pictures for a camera phone, particularly if you shoot at the highest resolution then resize later.

One other thing - what I would like to see Sony do to improve the camera so that users get the most out of it...
1. Dramatically reduce the default image processing in auto mode
2. Add a smart ISO setting, where the user can control the maximum ISO that the camera will select on "auto ISO". E.g. allow the user to set ISO800 as a cap, but have the camera use a lower setting if suitable for the conditions.
3. Add advanced options to allow the user to contol noise reduction and sharpening.
4. (In fantasy land) add a full manual mode.

What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?

JPWOA said:
What do you mean by "metering full scene"? Do you recomendo "multi-point automatic focus"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that's focus mode (which I don't have strong views about - I prefer single point for more control, personally). I.e., the way in which the camera picks the subject which will be in focus.
I'm talking about exposure, i.e., how the camera works out how bright or dark the scene is. In "normal" mode, if you go to settings, then scroll down, you will see a metering option. The choices are centre, average or spot.
I'm suggesting that at night "average" will be most useful as "centre" or "spot" take a limited part of the image and base exposure on that. At night a limited part of the image is likely to be extremely dark or light, which will make the exposure go nuts.
During the day "centre" works ok for specific subjects, and average is good for evenly lit scenes.

Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?

caitsith01 said:
...
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Click to collapse
Agreed on pretty much most of what you say, in addition other camera apps that allow you to save 100% jpg quality or save as png also help.
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Apart from that some good information shared.
---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------
juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no, because Sony are still processing the image to create the jpg files, and not saving at 100%. Think of RAW, I always shoot in RAW because then I am in control of the processing on the image WB,Sharpness,Brightness... not my camera.
Burst mode is great, because the Sony algorithms don't have time to apply all the settings to all the photos before they are written, so just pretty much write the file (like jpg in raw jpg). So a combo of all these things will significantly help further. To better this even further there are other camera apps that allow you to save at 100% jpg or even png for RAW like capture to a lesser extent

danw_oz said:
f2.4 not ultra fast hmmm, I am sure you do not have very many lenses in your arsenal that are faster for your camera. I know I only have one, my F1.2 50mm lens, the rest are f2.8 or F4, they have to do for me because they don't make any faster sir, and if one day they even did, I am telling you I could not afford them .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.

juanmaasecas said:
Thank you very very very much for your review.
I'll own a Xperia Z in a few days and, since i'm into photography too, I was worried about the quality pics I've seen.
Did you try the burst mode? Have you seen the post about burst mode avoiding (almost) all postprocessing and daylight pics look awesome?
What do you think? Does normal mode avoid this kind of overprocessing in good light conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen that thread - in my opinion the burst pics look similar to those I have been able to achieve in normal mode, i.e., nice clean edges, not a lot of detail loss, not a lot of noise added by over-sharpening.
I imagine the reason is that the camera isn't fast enough to ruin... er... process pictures when shooting in burst mode. Burst mode has some resolution limitations, though, plus who wants 10 copies of every photo?
To be honest many of the daytime shots I've taken look pretty close to what you would expect from an enthusiast compact, like one of the Leica-Panasonic or Canon G-series cameras. Not quite there, but close (and obviously lacking optical zoom).

Well i don't know but i took some samples for a quick compare. Though even the BURST Mode pics are a bit smaller in size, they give you still the most detail and Pictures overall look much better. That's at least my impression.
1- Burst Mode
2- Snap Camera (PlayStore)
3- Supperior Auto
4- Normal Mode ISO 100
5- HDR Kamera (PlayStore)
Decide for yourself.

caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am talk serious gear, not cheap 50mm lenses. And I didn't ask you if you could find cheap lenses, I asked you how many lenses you have faster than f2.4.
For solid low light performance, I would not be using a smart phone, nor would most others I am sure. Most people are using phones for snap shots nothing serious, or to capture that once off shot because you didn't have a better camera on hand.
Not any phones that I am aware of below f2.0

caitsith01 said:
Actually I have a couple which are faster. For DSLR stuff f/1.4 and f/1.8 are only a couple of hundred bucks, and there are compacts available in that territory too.
For really solid low light performance at an acceptable ISO you really need something around f/2.0 or lower. Either that, or a better sensor which can produce minimal noise at ISO 1600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again

Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
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totally agree, most of all on superior auto...
normal mode, same photo,auto is 400 iso...manual iso 200 (just a little darker) superior auto 800/1600 iso
superior auto can be good only on daylight (difference between 40 and 100 is really small)

sacredsoul said:
Thanks for this really informative thread.
One question though. In normal mode, the viewfinder, ie the screen, is really dark. I could barely make out any details in a well lit room but when I take a picture, the image comes out well lit. Increasing the exposure to 2.0 helps but not a great deal. The screen looks fine and bright in superier auto though. My settings are the settings you recommended. ISO at 100 and flash, HDR off. Any idea what's the issue? I've included a couple of photos to better illustrate this. Note, the dark picture which is in normal mode is attempting to focus on the same object as the superior auto mode in the same lighting situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!

fartlec said:
hi, thanks for your detailed explanation. i have one concern, though (just food for thoughts). you said that in superior auto applies more processing on the pictures. for what i've seen (and the examples provided by higgings are clear enough), the processing applies as well, but we have (dramatically) less colour shifting and probably less noise. the problem, to me, is still aliasing and lack of detail (if you compare in higgings pictures, burst mode, the door phone, you can clearly see the name plates, which isn't the case in the other pictures
anyway, good job, and thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that you can resolve those nameplates better in the burst mode picture, even though I think it might be slightly lower resolution (?). The "normal" mode shot looks softer, but looks to me like it still has less aggressive noise reduction/sharpening than the "superior auto" shot. I would like to know what ISO these were at - unfortunately the EXIF data has been stripped out.
Another area where the three pictures are noticeably different is the curtains in the lowest row of windows. The burst mode output is noticeably sharper. Normal mode is a bit more smudged and has the characteristic "painted" look of over-aggressive noise reduction, and superior auto mode is even worse in this regard (as well as the colour being completely different).
I obviously don't know exactly what's happening inside the camera, my original post is just what I've tried to work out from playing around with different settings.
I can say for sure that there was a drastic difference in noise for me taking the same dark night scene using superior auto and then manually dialling down the ISO. Using superior auto the noise in darker areas was so bad that the image was unusable, even for social media etc, whereas at ISO 400 it was acceptable and could have come from a reasonable quality compact camera. It may be that the ISO level is the primary problem, and that the aggressive denoise/sharpen algorithms make the problem worse (because running these on a super-noisy picture will produce messy results). So it might be running the same level of denoise etc in both modes, but because superior auto produces such messy base images the filters then make the pictures look shocking.
It really needs a "raw" mode, either producing real RAW images or producing "straight out of camera" JPEGS with minimal filtering.

caitsith01 said:
Hi
I think this is a flaw with the camera software. It happens on mine too. It is trying to guess what the image will look like at that ISO. So the slower you set the ISO, the darker the preview. However when you take the picture it does its best to get a good exposure and generally succeeds.
So basically not much you can do about this, but it does make it hard taking shots in very low light. Another thing Sony should fix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah thank you. So for indoor pictures, if I wanted to see the preview, I don't have a choice but to increase ISO? That sucks really

I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP

sillypilot said:
I've flashed a 4.2 camera from this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970957
I found the quality is way better than the stock one, even it shot at 5MP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exemples ?

I also use the 4.2 camera. For me it's faster and the photos it makes are on par with the ones made using burst.
I've patched the 4.2 camera to support all of the resolutions Z/ZL support (9, 13, etc).
I'm uploading it now.
Update: here's the link

A few shots from yesterday.
At the car
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20Burstmode.JPG
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Bil%20iAuto.jpg
At my parkingspace
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20iAuto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Burst.JPG
Normal, 100ISO, HDR On
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/Parkering%20Normal%20100ISO%20HDR%20On.jpg
Window shot
iAuto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Auto.jpg
Burstmode, mid.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/83964459/F%C3%B6nster%20Burst.JPG
So what do you think? There are some differences between the pictures indeed.

Strange behavior of noise reduction in stock camera - with samples

Update: I no longer have the LG G4 so I cannot help with this. You are free to use this thread to continue the discussion!
I've been playing around with the stock camera's manual mode, trying to figure out why sometimes pictures in both day light and low light have major noise reduction (NR) and other times pictures have some noise but details are preserved. At first I thought it was a software bug where NR wasn't correctly applied, but then I realized it had to do with the camera software and ISO.
I tested using ISO 50, 300, and 500.
I found that from ISO 50 to 400, NR is heavily applied and details are lost, making the G4 the same as other phone's cameras in day light. I took some pictures at a swimming pool on a sunny day and I didn't like the results with stock camera.
From ISO 450 (or 500) and up NR is reduced so much and details are mostly preserved.
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
That is a weird behavior. In DSLRs it is the opposite. Between ISO 100 and 800 there isn't much NR because there is no need for it and then you start getting a bit more NR, or you can disable it, usually it's called High ISO Noise Reduction. I'm not sure what LG was thinking to apply so much NR at ISO 50, seems like it's low ISO NR with LG lol. It does need some NR because the sensor is small but this is too much at such a low ISO. I really like that there isn't much NR applied after ISO 450/500.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
I know I can solve that by using Raw but I don't always have time to process the .dng file and I know I can use ProShot and disabling NR but there's nothing like the stock camera on the G4.
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Is there a software tweak in build.prop that we can apply to disable noise reduction like with the HTC M9?
EDIT - Camera mod:
defcomg made a mod that disables noise reduction in LG's stock G4 camera. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63025959&postcount=71
You must be rooted.
Go to System/Priv-app and copy/backup the LGCameraApp folder somewhere safe.
Take the LG camera apk file from defcomg's post above and put in the root of LGCameraApp folder in system/priv-app.
Overwrite and then launch camera. It will crash first time and then work fine.
Issues:
Clicking on Mode in Auto will always crash though, needs to be fixed.
Noise reduction is applied even in Auto. I would have liked it only in manual but seems like there's no way to do this yet. So, defcomg is trying to add a button that lets us disable noise reduction on the fly, that would be awesome because in higher ISO, there is a lot of chroma noise.

I have noticed the same thing myself. The G3 did the same thing. Even in bright light at ISO50, minor details are lost due to noise reduction. The advantage to the G3 was that you could use XCam LG to turn off the noise reduction. I wish he would develop it to work with the G4 also.

GibMcFragger said:
I have noticed the same thing myself. The G3 did the same thing. Even in bright light at ISO50, minor details are lost due to noise reduction. The advantage to the G3 was that you could use XCam LG to turn off the noise reduction. I wish he would develop it to work with the G4 also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember XCam from the G2 also, but I think the one for G3 is better with more options. If I recall correctly, the dev said that he doesn't have a G4 so he won't develop for it. Not sure though. I hope he does it too.
I had a Panasonic GX7 (Micro Four Thirds) and that camera had like 10 different settings for noise reduction, it was great lol. Wish phones get that level of control soon!
I like that HTC gives the option to change sharpness. That's also important.

Are you rooted? Do me a favor to see if I am imagining things or not.
I changed ro.lge.noise.suppression to "0" (off) in my build prop, then rebooted. I took a few pics, and I swear there is no more detail loss when zoomed in.
I just want someone else to do it and see if I'm crazy.

GibMcFragger said:
Are you rooted? Do me a favor to see if I am imagining things or not.
I changed ro.lge.noise.suppression to "0" (off) in my build prop, then rebooted. I took a few pics, and I swear there is no more detail loss when zoomed in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rooted yesterday . I'll try it out soon! I hope it works!

Ramsey said:
I rooted yesterday . I'll try it out soon! I hope it works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never mind. I took a few more. I think I'm crazy. Damn, lol. I was hoping I found it.

GibMcFragger said:
Never mind. I took a few more. I think I'm crazy. Damn, lol. I was hoping I found it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I tried it, no changes even after reboot =(.
That noise suppression could be for calls or mic .

Ramsey said:
Ok I tried it, no changes even after reboot =(.
That noise suppression could be for calls or mic .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just verified that. I'm an idiot. It IS the noise suppression for calls. If you go into your call options in the dialer, the noise suppression option will now be missing...
Lol oops. Just change it back to 1, then reboot and it's back.

GibMcFragger said:
I just verified that. I'm an idiot. It IS the noise suppression for calls. If you go into your call options in the dialer, the noise suppression option will now be missing...
Lol oops. Just change it back to 1, then reboot and it's back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No prob lol.
This was a line added to build-prop to disable some noise reduction on the M9. I don't know if it will work with the G4 but it's worth trying. I don't have time now, maybe later I'll try it:
persist.camera.qcwnr.enabled=0

Ramsey said:
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if its a question of where focus got set. With the ISO 500 focus was spot on but with the ISO 50 maybe focus got set on the sheet further away.The patterns on the sheet on the ISO 50 look more clear compared to the ISO 500.
I can't explain the ISO 300 one though. The fur seems soft like the ISO 50.
Try to get more distance between you and the subject, at least 2m so we can eliminate focus as a parameter.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is, its a damn good job. Face detect shows as one.
Does face detect get triggered in manual ? because with one of the shots in the photo thread i notice face detect was zero in the long exposure portrait.

What is weird is that it's mostly occuring on human skin. As said before thanks God we have RAW to control the NR and the jpeg compression. What is crazy too is that the difference is night and day between jpeg and raw even when saving at 100% jpeg quality using Lightroom on PC based on a dng it will recompress too much the pixels resulting in some color degradation. Perhaps LG is using a different color preset than the known adobe rgb ones...
Sent from my LG-H815 using XDA Free mobile app

Ramsey said:
I've been playing around with the stock camera's manual mode, trying to figure out why sometimes pictures in both day light and low light have major noise reduction (NR) and other times pictures have some noise but details are preserved. At first I thought it was a software bug where NR wasn't correctly applied, but then I realized it had to do with the camera software and ISO.
I tested using ISO 50, 300, and 500.
I found that from ISO 50 to 400, NR is heavily applied and details are lost, making the G4 the same as other phone's cameras in day light. I took some pictures at a swimming pool on a sunny day and I didn't like the results with stock camera.
From ISO 450 (or 500) and up NR is reduced so much and details are mostly preserved.
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
That is a weird behavior. In DSLRs it is the opposite. Between ISO 100 and 800 there isn't much NR because there is no need for it and then you start getting a bit more NR, or you can disable it, usually it's called High ISO Noise Reduction. I'm not sure what LG was thinking to apply so much NR at ISO 50, seems like it's low ISO NR with LG lol. It does need some NR because the sensor is small but this is too much at such a low ISO. I really like that there isn't much NR applied after ISO 450/500.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
I know I can solve that by using Raw but I don't always have time to process the .dng file and I know I can use ProShot and disabling NR but there's nothing like the stock camera on the G4.
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Is there a software tweak in build.prop that we can apply to disable noise reduction like with the HTC M9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but when setting ISO then it must be at Manual mode right ?
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.

s3alon said:
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was my first thought with the 1/8. But the ISO 300 is 1/24 or fast enough. Even at 1/8 you can get clear shots with the OIS.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
manual focus would be another way to eliminate any auto focus issues.

One Twelve said:
I wonder if its a question of where focus got set. With the ISO 500 focus was spot on but with the ISO 50 maybe focus got set on the sheet further away.The patterns on the sheet on the ISO 50 look more clear compared to the ISO 500.
I can't explain the ISO 300 one though. The fur seems soft like the ISO 50.
Try to get more distance between you and the subject, at least 2m so we can eliminate focus as a parameter.
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
If it is, its a damn good job. Face detect shows as one.
Does face detect get triggered in manual ? because with one of the shots in the photo thread i notice face detect was zero in the long exposure portrait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pretty sure focus is set correctly and there is no blur from me shaking. The OIS is pretty good on the G4. The problem lies in LG's post processing where in lower ISO it is using aggressive noise reduction.
Face detect isn't activated in manual mode. I may be wrong though.
The one of my daughter isn't shot in manual mode, it was auto. The focus point may not be fully on her face, perhaps her neck area, but I have other shots that I won't share where I did focus on faces and the skin is too smooth. Tried using ProShot and the faces don't have that fake smoothing, they look natural and normal.
The NR is too aggressive so that it makes it appear as if I focused wrong. Even if the focus is on the sheet with ISO 50, why aren't there any fine details on the sheet like with the ISO 500? That's the aggressive NR coming into play.

s3alon said:
Sorry but when setting ISO then it must be at Manual mode right ?
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is in manual mode as stated in the beginning of my post, but note that the pic of my daughter was in auto mode.
If you zoom in you can notice that there is no shaking, that's just the effect of aggressive noise reduction below ISO 450 .
Look at ISO 500, notice that the fur has more detail. You can see a lot more noise in that picture over the ISO 300 one. That's how LG decided to post process and I don't like that low ISO has aggressive NR.

One Twelve said:
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I mean by that is that auto mode has a special night mode that activates in low light and I think it takes away our ability to see ISO when that happens. Shots take longer to be saved also, but the results are pretty good. Manual mode doesn't have that feature and ends up with a lot of ugly noise in low light. I was just stating that I wasn't comparing the difference between those 2 modes, in case someone wanted to say that that's the night mode from auto mode causing that behavior.

Ramsey said:
I am pretty sure focus is set correctly and there is no blur from me shaking. The OIS is pretty good on the G4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, there is no blur that i can see in the 1/8 shot. Looks quite sharp. A little too sharp with patterns on the bedsheet just in front of the furry animal for ISO 50. So its not about shaking. But i'm not sure if focus got set properly.
My point is more about dof when focused on subjects less than 2m away. The G4 has a tendency to mess this up at times, picking the background instead of the foreground ie your intended target. So if you camera to subject distance is little over 2m then focus is at infinity or if closer than 2m you use manual focus then you get around AF, if indeed AF is responsible.
he problem lies in LG's post processing where in lower ISO it is using aggressive noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me more shots where we can eliminate focus as a potential cause.
Face detect isn't activated in manual mode. I may be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if face detect isn't triggered in manual then there will be no beauty face.
The one of my daughter isn't shot in manual mode, it was auto. The focus point may not be fully on her face, perhaps her neck area, but I have other shots that I won't share where I did focus on faces and the skin is too smooth. Tried using ProShot and the faces don't have that fake smoothing, they look natural and normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Focus is perfect in your daughters shot. Action shot, crisp, what a lovely photo it is
The NR is too aggressive so that it makes it appear as if I focused wrong. Even if the focus is on the sheet with ISO 50, why aren't there any fine details on the sheet like with the ISO 500? That's the aggressive NR coming into play.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me more examples.
---------- Post added at 05:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 AM ----------
Ramsey said:
What I mean by that is that auto mode has a special night mode that activates in low light and I think it takes away our ability to see ISO when that happens. Shots take longer to be saved also, but the results are pretty good. Manual mode doesn't have that feature and ends up with a lot of ugly noise in low light. I was just stating that I wasn't comparing the difference between those 2 modes, in case someone wanted to say that that's the night mode from auto mode causing that behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, your 1/8 ISO 50 is not a night shot. Had to be taken in manual.
Am doubting focus only in your shots. I am not convinced as yet that there is aggressive NR in a manual shot at low ISO. You did not use manual focus here it was AF. I think AF worked for ISO 500 but maybe not for ISO 50. That i think is the reason the toy at ISO 500 looks more clear.
I cannot say about ISO 300 though.
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In the above you can see its more clear towards the center than top or bottom. For ISO 500, imagine the toy is in the centre, AF got it right.
i think with the ISO 50, toy is in the centre but AF picked the top. so it looks like this.
This happens when subject to camera distance is less than 2m. You say NR, i say (maybe) focus

Shot in manual with jpg and dng and compare how aggressive the noise reduction is applied to processed jpg as compare to dng even at low iso.
Dng output shows too much noise even at low iso and with adequate light though i have no other phone for comparison. This might be the reason why lg apply too much NR? Its like saying g4 camera is bad.

Yeah, you're not crazy. This is a serious issue.
I was coming from a Galaxy S6 and I bought the LG G4. Went to the park, took some photos of my son. Got home, saw them on the PC, zoomed in.....
Oh my Josh. It was horrible. Lots and lots of noise. And yes, the skin was the problem.
Took the same shots with a Galaxy S6 and they were just fine. Lots of detail, noise not even remotely close.
Bright sunny day outside.

Ramsey said:
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your photo indicates face detect 1.
So let me show you some counter examples from one of the members here. Both are presumably in auto so face detect triggers when it can detect otherwise it does not indicate it detected a face.
20150726_170009 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 0 so in theory no beauty face.
20150726_170024 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 2
See the little boy's face. Is there any beauty face there ? because i cannot tell the difference between the two. These are good examples as they are in the same lighting, similar pose with same subject, with and without face detect.
Another pair
20150726_164936 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 0
20150726_164941 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 1
Any difference ? can't see it.
Check also the photos in his two albums, many portraits in there. i don't recall noticing any extra processing. This is the H815 but it should not make a difference.
Thanks @shurensly95 and do you have any opinion on this 'beauty face theory' ?

Comparison of camera modes - Shooting in Low-Light

Had a little bit of free-time so decided to do a simple test. What differences does the different camera modes provide in Low-Light?
Here is the album for the pictures: https://goo.gl/photos/iFc9Keoh9um1beks5
All shots were handheld, 8MP 16:9, landscape orientation. Unfortunately, I don't really have a DSLR sample for comparison but you can take my word that there wasn't much light (among the shots, SA and Handheld Twilight are closest to how dark the scene actually was but in reality, it was still a bit darker). On to the analysis:
Superior Auto - Night-Scene detected, NO tripod icon Even though it selected Night-Scene, it still seemed to select a rather high-ISO in this case, making it quite useless. How do you get the Tripod icon to appear when handheld? Do you have any tips for that or how long I have to wait for it to appear?
Manual Mode (ISO Auto, Metering Multi, Single Auto-Focus) - based on many observations, ISO in Manual mode generally is 1/2 of the ISO that is selected for Superior Auto. Most of the time I shoot stuff in this setting. Curiously, did anybody notice that the "Image Stabilizer" option disappeared?
Night Portrait - based on observations, seems to select a balance of the lowest ISO it could get with the slowest shutter-speed it can have to have a balanced exposure of the scene WITHOUT motion blur. This in contrast to the Night Scene mode.
Night Scene - based on observations, seems to prioritize getting the lowest ISO it can and slowest shutter-speed to get the best exposure BUT the main difference with Night Portrait is it does not care about motion blur! And yes, the shutter speed it selected was almost 1 sec but I have to be honest, it really took me quite a few tries to get that clear a shot without motion blur. You might also notice some wonky focus on the right-side.
Handheld Twilight - not really sure what this does but to me seems to perform like HDR? Takes a couple of pics then stitches them together to preserve detail? If you compare to the Superior Auto shot, it seems to have more detail in comparison (e.g. the frame with etched words).
Is there a best scene for shooting? I think it would depend on what you want to prioritize. For me, I would probably leave it in Manual / Night Portrait for general shooting and put it in Night-Scene mode for landscape shots. Lack of OIS is sad but not a deal-breaker for me, just have to be more patient and practice having steady hands to get that good shot.
Hope this have helped you and please feel free to add any information as needed!

Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.

Timaustin2000 said:
Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?

bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I could tell you, lol. Tuck your elbows in against your ribs - that helps. If you can, lean your elbows on a arm rest or lean against a wall. You just need to be as steady as possible but it's tricky to do.
One tip; half pressing the camera key re-sets Superior Auto when released. If you do this a few times, it means that the mode is more active in looking for changes in exposure and behaviour and may help it come up quicker.
Once it does come up, half press and hold it and it should lock the mode so that you can find your focal point and take the shot.
Hope this helps.

I would add from myself the best results especially in detail are available throght Maual Mode 8mpx.
The autofocus is fast, low manual ISO and the usage of white balance gives really detailed pics even in low light.
It's also good to use tap-to-focus and consciously use light metering.
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tripod appears actually only when the phone is set on a completely stable surface/stand.
Otherwise the phone detects any movement. Which is logical.

Thanks both for the helpful tips! Can't wait to try out and do my best to practice my 'tripod mode' Btw, what metering do you leave your phone at?

I've found to get tripod to appear reliably, shoot either while sitting or leaning/braced on something. I found it was the body swaying, and not the hands, that was causing most of the movement for me. If the tripod icon does not at first appear, take an initial shot in SA (without tripod icon), and it should then appear for the next shot.

Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.

EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow didn't know that before. Might be interesting to have a play around with those settings when I get the chance!

EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting,.. but I've never once managed to get it to produce usable results.

i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp

Barthlon said:
i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am totally for Manual 8mpx.
Just because in real low light it's more crisp than 23mpx.
Other than that Manual 23mpx is great.

I can bring up the tripod quite consistently after the first shot (it keeps showing all those running, walking icons first time due to almost unavoidable initial motions).. Thanks to some helpful tips here, I'll have to try to get it up before the first shot.
One off-topic tip that could be pretty convenient. I'm pretty sure most of the Xperia shooters already know this. I leave the camera in my fav. manual mode (basically favorite ISO/res. & everything else set to auto or you could just pick a scene mode). I launch the camera using the awesome shutter button to get to auto mode directly. I tap the icon to launch the camera only when I need to get directly to my favorite manual 'preset'.

If we lock the iso as 200 in manual mode, I guess it is like a tripod mode, because the camera will adjust the shutter speed to match the iso , and it takes good pics in most circumstances.

Camera: tips for manual settings or auto to use in certain circumstances

Would people care to post tips about what are best settings to use in:
low light photos
fast subjects
etc,

Don't have this phone, but I can share some common knowledge.
There's a term often called "exposure triangle". Proper exposure is achieved by combining three variables - ISO, aperture, shutter speed. High ISO, wide aperture (low f-number) and low shutter speed give you more light. Depending on what you're shooting, you'd want to sacrifice one or the other. High ISO gives you more light at the expense of image quality. Wide aperture gives you more light at the expense of lower depth of field (which is not necessarily bad - e.g. may be intentionally desired). Low shutter speed gives you more light at the expense of not being able to give you a sharp image of something that's moving. Generally you can vary one to compensate for the other two. With most phones, the aperture is fixed, so you're left with only shutter speed and ISO.
For low light, you'd want to drop the shutter speed to something like 1/10 or 1/5 - if the subject is still and your hands are steady, you can have a sharp photo this way. The lower you drop the shutter speed, the lower ISO you will need to ensure proper exposure - and the lower the ISO, the cleaner the image given the exposure is proper - but don't try to keep the ISO low if it would result in an underexposed shot. Experiment with what is the lowest speed at which you can manage a sharp shot.
For fast subjects, it depends - sometimes 1/100 is enough, sometimes 1/500 is not enough - very much depends on what you're shooting (primarily how fast it is moving). Again, try it yourself.

killchain said:
Don't have this phone, but I can share some common knowledge.
There's a term often called "exposure triangle". Proper exposure is achieved by combining three variables - ISO, aperture, shutter speed. High ISO, wide aperture (low f-number) and low shutter speed give you more light. Depending on what you're shooting, you'd want to sacrifice one or the other. High ISO gives you more light at the expense of image quality. Wide aperture gives you more light at the expense of lower depth of field (which is not necessarily bad - e.g. may be intentionally desired). Low shutter speed gives you more light at the expense of not being able to give you a sharp image of something that's moving. Generally you can vary one to compensate for the other two. With most phones, the aperture is fixed, so you're left with only shutter speed and ISO.
For low light, you'd want to drop the shutter speed to something like 1/10 or 1/5 - if the subject is still and your hands are steady, you can have a sharp photo this way. The lower you drop the shutter speed, the lower ISO you will need to ensure proper exposure - and the lower the ISO, the cleaner the image given the exposure is proper - but don't try to keep the ISO low if it would result in an underexposed shot. Experiment with what is the lowest speed at which you can manage a sharp shot.
For fast subjects, it depends - sometimes 1/100 is enough, sometimes 1/500 is not enough - very much depends on what you're shooting (primarily how fast it is moving). Again, try it yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly as mentioned above pretty much, I will add a little more.
Normal cameras you can change the aperture which in turn will also affect the required shutter speed for the correct exposure in the given shot. Your phone does not have this, only a fixed aperture, how you phone regulates this is through shutter speed and adjusting your ISO. Manual with all cameras is recommend for best results, as your camera can make bad decisions for these exposures.
Perfect example I can give you is the other night I was trying to photograph christmas lights, the camera was trying to illuminate the entire scene over exposing all the lights, I had to compensate this by underexposing by one stop what the camera was trying to expose.
If you have ever photographed scenes with lots of black and or lots of white, with black your phone overexposes and you black becomes greyish the rest of the shot is bright white. With white your phone underexposes, the white has lots of details but the background is very dark of completely black. it each of these situations if you don't take control you will not get the best out of the scene.

Thank you contributors. I found out that by changing the exposure my screen darkens quite a lot but when I take the photo comes out a lot lighter. What is that about? Is it not wysiwig?

mihaid said:
Thank you contributors. I found out that by changing the exposure my screen darkens quite a lot but when I take the photo comes out a lot lighter. What is that about? Is it not wysiwig?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The camera is trying to show you a real time image, so in low light it has to keep the shutter faster to keep up with you moving the camera, if they didn't do this and it was showing you real time in low light you would have to wait the exposure time, this would get really annoying as you have to wait for each frame to refresh
So in summary they have a minimum shutter they show in the screen preview (not sure what this is) maybe 1/15 sec so it can keep up with you panning/moving the camera
The Sony display tries to improve the look of photos, you have noticed when you view a photo that it changes while you are looking at it.

If you want a less post-processing you can use "Landscape" mode. You will get visible color noise in low light situations but also more detail in dark areas. A bit like what G4/V10 does and depeding on scene it can be passable. In good lighting it brings out the details better than other modes. It does though like to up the ISO but it can be countered with the EV.

Does people even have the phone to make comments, the only settings in manual mode is change iso value that's it, there is no shutter speed at least not in Sony stock camera app
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

You can change most of the settings mentioned above using the Fv-5 app, try it

babarmaqbool said:
good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stop with the good spam in each thread please.
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

Vcaddy said:
You can change most of the settings mentioned above using the Fv-5 app, try it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not free (lite version is horrible) and can only shoot long exposure in 2.1 MP.
I bet it doesn't even shoot a real long exposure, I think it just shoots a video into a picture.
BTW, normal photos can only be taken in 8mp max.

This phone needs a real manual mode like the G4 because the phone really does not deal with low light well due to lack of control in the app. FV-5 is useless really as it's only 8mp and doesn't really do any better than stock on this phone or the G4

Jonathan-H said:
This phone needs a real manual mode like the G4 because the phone really does not deal with low light well due to lack of control in the app. FV-5 is useless really as it's only 8mp and doesn't really do any better than stock on this phone or the G4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
Long exposure in vf-5 app is only 2.1mp btw.

Using Manual Mode (Camera) for much (much!) better photography.

I think we can all agree that the camera's auto mode can be a little weak on low light, fast moving objects, and focus.
However, I have gotten ridiculously amazing results using manual settings. To the point where I wish (if anyone from oneplus is seeing this, please please implement it) I could set up various quick-access custom manual mode presets. It would be a very good feature (does anyone know an app that has that btw?).
With a little tweaking, you can find a super sweet spot for a picture on certain conditions.
The following are examples on a very low light scenario with no image movement and minimal hand movement (exact same environment conditions on all):
- Normal mode
- Normal mode with HDR
- Normal mode with HQ
- Manual mode with ISO at 400, and shutter speed at 4s. Then touch and raise finger on screen to place exposure point, and then touch same spot and drag to place focus point.
I was shocked to see that this camera could actually capture something like that last shot in my home's corridor at 2am, when the normal modes barely gave me anything visible.
That setting is working very well for me on multiple very low light situations. Really wish we had some quick-access presets.
There are also settings which can capture images with fast moving targets (with low shutter speeds and a little higher ISOs), and usually I don't get blurry shots with focus on infinite or when selecting focus point.
Things to avoid are super high ISO's like 6400 which for some reason the normal mode is very fond of using even though on manual we can only get up to 3200.

Not sure why you would prefer blurry 4s shot over noisy high ISO shot? Yes auto mode isn't as good as the one compared to LG or Samsung flagships but even manual mode has its limitations. 1/8s is pretty much the limit of what you can shoot with OIS and that is only if you have super steady hands. Most phones with OIS can give quite good results at 1/16s and ISO 100 onwards depending on the lighting. Anything else like 1s or longer exposure and you'll need a tripod . By the way max ISO is only 3200 so you can't go higher.
Oneplus 3T noise reduction algorithm is quite bad and even at 100 ISO which should be super clean in daylight is probably one of the worst in the class.

gedas5 said:
Not sure why you would prefer blurry 4s shot over noisy high ISO shot? Yes auto mode isn't as good as the one compared to LG or Samsung flagships but even manual mode has its limitations. 1/8s is pretty much the limit of what you can shoot with OIS and that is only if you have super steady hands. Most phones with OIS can give quite good results at 1/16s and ISO 100 onwards depending on the lighting. Anything else like 1s or longer exposure and you'll need a tripod . By the way max ISO is only 3200 so you can't go higher.
Oneplus 3T noise reduction algorithm is quite bad and even at 100 ISO which should be super clean in daylight is probably one of the worst in the class.
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maybe RAW is a solution here?

I have been trying Open Camera for the last couple of days. Seems to take much better low light photos. Not as good as my 6p but at least the photos dont look over processed and washed out.