Database Users

lets get the kernel source

Htc must release the source in a timely matter, not just for us, but all devices out, and future ones coming. The best way to do this imo is not to start a big fire and smoke them out per say, but to go though proper channels. Obviously emailing them is having no effect, 120 days is not timely, I mean in 120 days this device will be outdated technically.
Imo this is the proper channel: http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
Go there, read their page and then email them. Here is the letter I sent to the. Subject, "htc again, this time the vision" :
"I just wanted to bring to your attention that htc is in violation of the gpl again. As I'm sure your aware from other devices they released, ie desire, they are not releasing kernel source codes in a timely manner. In the case of the desire it has been over 3 months and to my knowledge is still not released, however my complaint today is about the htc vision, known in the usa as the G2. This product was offically released on oct. 6 2010, with no source code available. When contacted about it, they said it will be 90-120 days before its available. Maybe I'm wrong, but as my interpertations of the gpl this is unacceptable. Since the product is commerically available, then surely the source code is, and just being held back purposely.
Thank you for your help!
Keep open source open!"
edit: 4:45 pm est 10-09-10
here is their response:
"We heard you. In fact, we got the message seven times
We have already been in contact with HTC and they have heard the message
loud and clear. I have no idea when it will be fixed though
armijn"

fastludeh22 said:
Htc must release the source in a timely matter, not just for us, but all devices out, and future ones coming. The best way to do this imo is not to start a big fire and smoke them out per say, but to go though proper channels. Obviously emailing them is having no effect, 120 days is not timely, I mean in 120 days this device will be outdated technically.
Imo this is the proper channel: http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
Go there, read their page and then email them. Here is the letter I sent to the. Subject, "htc again, this time the vision" :
"I just wanted to bring to your attention that htc is in violation of the gpl again. As I'm sure your aware from other devices they released, ie desire, they are not releasing kernel source codes in a timely manner. In the case of the desire it has been over 3 months and to my knowledge is still not released, however my complaint today is about the htc vision, known in the usa as the G2. This product was offically released on oct. 6 2010, with no source code available. When contacted about it, they said it will be 90-120 days before its available. Maybe I'm wrong, but as my interpertations of the gpl this is unacceptable. Since the product is commerically available, then surely the source code is, and just being held back purposely.
Thank you for your help!
Keep open source open!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but perhaps you should have someone proofread your letter first. There are a number of grammatical errors in there. If you're posting in the boards, people just don't care, but YOU should care if you're sending a letter that is supposed to be accepted as intelligent and factual.
I can't stress this enough. I know a guy that does AMAZING web-design, but never gets hired(without me as an intermediary anyways) because his grammar and spelling is horrible. He miss-spells every other word, uses many words out of context, and rarely uses proper punctuation and capitalization.
This is not a rant and rave, but if you'd like a regulatory entity to take you seriously, it's in your best interest to put your best foot forward and proofread.
Sorry if this comes off as 'complainy', but if you're going to represent a community as a whole, i.e. xda or developers entirely, just do so gracefully.

InGeNeTiCs said:
No offense, but perhaps you should have someone proofread your letter first. There are a number of grammatical errors in there. If you're posting in the boards, people just don't care, but YOU should care if you're sending a letter that is supposed to be accepted as intelligent and factual.
I can't stress this enough. I know a guy that does AMAZING web-design, but never gets hired(without me as an intermediary anyways) because his grammar and spelling is horrible. He miss-spells every other word, uses many words out of context, and rarely uses proper punctuation and capitalization.
This is not a rant and rave, but if you'd like a regulatory entity to take you seriously, it's in your best interest to put your best foot forward and proofread.
Sorry if this comes off as 'complainy', but if you're going to represent a community as a whole, i.e. xda or developers entirely, just do so gracefully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, you are right. maybe i shouldnt have done it lying in bed from my phone. so do US a favor and send a better one...
when re-reading it, i noticed 1 run on sentence. could you point out the other errors for me so i can improve my writing skills...

Mistakes marked as bold, corrections in parentheses. Also, some word changes made to make it sound like an adult wrote it
I just wanted to bring to your attention that htc is in violation of the gpl again. Formal letters to companies should begin "To Whom It May Concern: As I'm sure your (you're) aware from other devices they have released, ie (i.e.) desire (the Desire), they are not releasing (htc has not been releasing) kernel source codes in a timely manner. In the case of the desire (Desire,) it has been over 3 months (since the device was released) and to my knowledge is still not released, (and, to my knowledge, the kernel remains unreleased.) however my complaint today (However, my complaint today) is about (in regards to) the htc vision (Vision), known in the usa (USA) as the G2. This product was offically (officially) released on oct. 6 2010 (Oct. 6, 2010), with no source code available. When contacted about it (contacted regarding this), they (htc) said (that) it will (would) be 90-120 days before its (the code [or source code] is made) available. Maybe (perhaps) I'm wrong (mistaken), but(,) as my interpertations of the gpl according to my interpretation of GPL,) this is unacceptable. Since the product is commerically available, then surely the source code is, and just being held back purposely. (Horrible closing sentence and "commercially" is misspelled and I believe you meant "purposefully")
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

damn, i guess thats why i was always better at math, lol. i should have re-read it before sending it half asleep, but enough with the excuses. i see your point and that does sound better, HOWEVER, guess it was good enough for them, here is their response...
*also thanks to whoever else has sent, or will be sending emails to the proper channels
"We heard you. In fact, we got the message seven times
We have already been in contact with HTC and they have heard the message
loud and clear. I have no idea when it will be fixed though
armijn"

great idea -- sent this (edited and worded in my way, dont give a **** if its grammertikally inkorrect) from 6 gmails 3 yahoos 1 hotmail, one rocketmail, an earthlink, a comcast and a tmo.mail. and my law firm email, and just for hell, I faxed off a few to HTC Tmobile and to Apache on law firm letterhead (basic courtesy of notification) that how pissed i am -- this phone should have been delivered to us with first option after initial boot
"Hello dear customer, would you like to void your warranty right now and proceed to data wipe of our clunky bloaty bull****!!!!"
arrrgh

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i'm sorry,i just had to

Wow...
That's all I really have to say about this thread...
Sent from my HTC Vision

"To whom it may pertain to...
Just purchased a HTC T-mobile G2 aka HTC Vision and have been a avid HTC supporter for quite sometime. Ever since I owned my first HTC device the codenamed blueangel. The fact that HTC would work with the developer community pulled me toward your devices. I can't believe you guys (HTC) would lock down the successor to the device that helped you start the "open" revolution. I know it was most probably T-mobile that made you do it but that is besides the point. Especially since they have blamed you in the press. You have spit it the face of the developer community and shame on you and T-mobile. This protection will be broken I have no doubt of that but the fact that HTC put it there at all is what is in question. Please don't make this a race of protection...hack...protection...hack. OPEN means we should work together not against each other. So please do the right thing and help us either root these devices or give us the kernel source to help us along. Or even better do both of the above and show you respect the dev community like we all thought you did. Below I have included the first post of a stream that will become a torrent against HTC from the XDA devs.
Thanks for your cooperation."
Message I just sent HTC with a copy of the first post here. Don't care about grammar and neither will they if they receive enough complaints. We get enough people involved in this and it gets engadget or another blogs attention then maybe they will listen. This might be our only option considering the thinktank threads have gotten kinda quiet.

We cannot comment on whether or not HTC has blocked any customer from rooting or hacking their phone.
Rooting the phone may open the phone up to virus attacks and other un-secure activities, as well as introduce intended functionality, and as such is very difficult for us to support.
We cannot comment on whether or not HTC, Google, or T-Mobile has blocked any customer from rooting or hacking their phone.
All three companies work very closely to bring you the best experience on the phone possible.
I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its capabilities.
We are not withholding the kernel; we are currently working through the legal channels that we must go through to make the kernel available to you. Each product is individually under review.
When the kernel is available, you will be able to find it on developer.htc.com. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced, and thank you for your patience in this matter.
You can contact HTC Technical Support via telephone by calling 866.449.8658 between 6AM – 1AM EST, seven days a week.
To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number 10USCW42ENA000115.
Sincerely,
Sarah
HTC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was a quick generic response. boo...hiss...

My reply to HTC
I understand the position of HTC to not comment on the situation at hand even though it has already been outed in the press by T-mobile that HTC did indeed lock the phone. So either you are saying that the T-mobile press release was a hoax and HTC did nothing with write protection or HTC just want's the problem to go away. As far as not wanting us to root because of unsafe activities.... Well I don't even know where to start with that comment. We are all big boys and girls and can handle the effect of our actions. It's like saying Toyota installed a system in my car that will only let a certified technician open the hood because I may insert washer fluid into the engine instead of oil. Most companies would love it if you would void your warranty. Does it not lead to less operating cost for HTC in the long run to not support it's products because the warranties are void? You don't want me to void my warranty then do as the GPS companies do and make a disclaimer that I have to read and agree to before I go any further. Also on the subject of voiding warranties did HTC not say that G2 had 4gb's of internal storage? Yet only 1.2gb are available for use because of this lock? Back to the car analogies. If Ford says your car has 200 horse power in the brochure and (AFTER!!!!) you buy it you learn that only 50 horse power is unlocked you might be a little angry. No? I understand the position of all big companies is to play dumb until something either is forgotten or legal channels make them play smart but I do have to say that I did not expect this out of HTC. This post isn't directed at you Sarah but merely my G2 and thousands of others crippled devices. If you could pass this and my prior message to someone higher up that might at least read it and think it over it would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Official Support My Moto Campaign

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Link to the official thread​
If you find someone posting in this thread direct them to the official thread. The more threads the folks post in the less time available to focus on the main goals.
ROUND 3:
THE ICS LEAK AND THE THEAD HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM XDA AS WELL AS POSTS MADE BY epinter FOR THE PAST COUPLE DAYS!
The official reason as to why this happened
FBI warns users of mobile malware (Google states Jelly Bean has protection that older versions of Android does not)
Cnet Article: FBI warns users of mobile malware
Support My Moto Campaign has been specifically mentioned in latest Cnet article.
A big thanks goes out to Casey Newton and Roger Cheng for mentioning us here at Support My Moto!
Over fourty articles covering Motorola's removal of the ICS update and over ten articles that mention the campaigns
This is the Official Support My Moto Campaign Thread
​
Support My Moto! at supportmymoto.com​A unified campaign backed by developers and you requesting Ice Cream Sandwich & Jellybean updates, source code, and unlocked bootloaders for the owners of Atrix MB860, Atrix MB861, Atrix ME860, Electrify MB853 ,Photon MB855, DROID X2, MB870, XT882, MT870
The main goals of the campaign is to have a unified front in submission of requests for Ice Cream Sandwich & Jellybean updates, source code, and unlocked bootloaders for the owners of Atrix MB860, Atrix MB861, Atrix ME860, Electrify MB853 ,Photon MB855, DROID X2, MB870, XT882, MT870.
What we would like to happen;
Unlock would make JB ROMs available to anybody that wants it.
Updating would cover more moto owners and thereby minimize the impact to Moto's profits and public image.
A clean plan of how the $100 credit is to work as "We're looking into it" type statements are very damaging.
The reason we ask these things is that it gives Motorola room to work with. Once/if Motorola decides to open up a line of communication then specifics could be discussed. Ideally unlock and an update would cover almost all Moto owners. Either way, both solutions would be of benefit to Moto. Even though I'm fronting the campaign I would like to see as many people walk away from it happy, or at least not want to attack each other.
This is achieved by filing Better Business Bureau Complaints, FTC Complaints, emailing The Consumerist and signing the petitions. These things and more can be achieved at the
Support My Moto Website
#supportmymoto Support My Moto IRC chat to discuss issues and tactics
For IRC chat on your phone try AndChat​
If your company or employer has decided to remove Motorola from the approved supplier list for cell phones, please contact us. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember to submit Support My Moto to the news sites and tech blogs for coverage.
If you are a developer and would like to sign on, post "Count me in!" and I will add you to the list on the website and here as well.
SIGNATURE PIC TO SHOW SUPPORT IS ATTACHED TO THIS POST

Just a short note to the hopeless members, if I may.
It is perfectly alright to follow something you believe in even though the outcome to you may be evident in a negative way but this campaign is about more than software updates. We consumers should never make it easier for the corporates to get away with their moral obligations. Thank you!

CSharpHeaven said:
Just a short note to the hopeless members, if I may.
It is perfectly alright to follow something you believe in even though the outcome to you may be evident in a negative way but this campaign is about more than software updates. We consumers should never make it easier for the corporates to get away with their moral obligations. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
supportmymoto.com
supportmymoto.com

I now have a link to the Official supportmymoto petition on the site. I should also have the site cleaned up this eve and add irc chat for better coordination of our efforts.
I'm looking for those that speak Chinese and Russian to get the word out to those forums. PM me if you can help out.

Support My Moto Team​DEVELOPERS
Th3Bill
mof9336
peetr_
zacthespack
Magiman7
upndwn4par
mmontuori
Syl
samcripp
spleef
android-DEP
shabbypenguin
tiger013
k0nane
stevendeb25
epinter
Notorious544d
pinguy1982
italosnt
Contributors
azrienoch of XDA Developer TV
na7q of motosunfire.com
QBKing77 & His Youtube channel Please be sure to send some "Thanks" his way for the video!

Found this in my inbox from the man himself
azrienoch said:
Well, ****. I'd planned on doing a video about the GPL and Apache License, kicking off a boycott. Looks like that'll have to wait a week. Saw the articles on Techmeme and CNET. Congrats on getting the movement this far. Want to do me an enormous favor and compile a list of links of all the press this has gotten?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the coverage from cnet (and articles that have cropped up because of it) the anger over this issue is getting out.

Feels good to be part of something awesome like this. Motorola can't ignore all this coverage for too long.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

I've been keeping the Main thread updated to what's going one as well as the site

Even though everyone should be visiting the official thread, it would be a good idea to update the dev list on this thread since many of the devs that have recently supported the cause are from this forum. Just a thought.

UPDATE:
"Update My Moto" has closed their campaign. Their site now redirects to supportmymoto.com. Even though I felt the leak was not enough, as it only covered a very limited number of devices, I stated that I would support their decision.
With supportmymoto.com (yours truly) attending the Big Android BBQ, please bump the various threads and spread the word.
Yet another reason to spread the word!
FBI warns users of mobile malware
Google is stated as saying the following;
"Google is aware of this and new features on its latest Android mobile OS -- Jelly Bean 4.1 -- aim to beef up the system's security over past OS iterations. With Jelly Bean's design, Google hopes to defend against hacks that install viruses, along with other malware."
Again, the call goes out to supporters to spread the word and I hope to see some of you at the Big Android BBQ!

Joke of the Day!
How do you install the Google Calender App on an 8 month old Tegra2 Moto?
You hit it with a hammer and by a 2 year old HTC Incredible S!
(Out of 44 phones released by major manufacturers in 2011 that have been upgraded to ICS or better, only two are Moto's. This isn't even including the Nexus line. HTC, LG, Samsung and even ZTE, of all people, seem to be able to upgrade their Tegra2 phone to ICS. WTF Moto!)

I've never seen such a liar company. Even if Motorola unlock the bootloader and give us the source code, I don't think so I'll ever go for Motorola again.. I feel like begging for my phone and of course I've a standard too... I'm corporate customer and I bought this power house for all my current and future corporate need... Seems I'm pi$$ed of...
Sent from Motorola Photon 4G via Reliance

Lokifish Marz said:
Support My Moto Team​DEVELOPERS
Th3Bill
mof9336
peetr_
zacthespack
Magiman7
upndwn4par
mmontuori
Syl
samcripp
spleef
android-DEP
shabbypenguin
tiger013
k0nane
stevendeb25
epinter
Notorious544d
pinguy1982
italosnt
Contributors
azrienoch of XDA Developer TV
na7q of motosunfire.com
QBKing77 & His Youtube channel Please be sure to send some "Thanks" his way for the video!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BIG UPS to those guys on that list!
You guys definitely put more work into the Atrix than Motorola themself.
Thank you for your passion and sharing your work with us since day 1...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

ccrows said:
BIG UPS to those guys on that list!
You guys definitely put more work into the Atrix than Motorola themself.
Thank you for your passion and sharing your work with us since day 1...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more... I wish I could just sell my Motorola and buy an Galaxy S2, But the Atrix 4G has potential to be much better!
Thank you devs! :highfive:

Props to all those devs supporting this. The Atrix is a great phone, and deserves the support from Moto and Google. I honestly don't know why more effort wasn't put into pumping this phone up.

Even with the leak more pressure still needs to be put on moto. Keep spreading the word, boycott their products, give them an incredibly bad 4th quarter earnings. If even then they won't work with the customer, the industry will take notice.
Motorola and Micromax are the only manufacturers, that I can find, to release Tegra2 phones and not update any of them to ICS or JB. Micromax only released one T2 phone so I can let that slide, sorta.

First person to statistically prove that webtop 3.0 on lapdock gets better battery life than 2.0 ... what? =)
Let me clarify; Prove the end user experience on ICS is an improvement over GB. Then lulz
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

User experience better than WT2, maybe. WT3 still has many of the user experience bugs I covered over a year ago with Evo Desktop PC. Better user experience than Webtop+ or Ubuntop, not even close. Editing any type or large document or image editing proves that.
Battery life? WT3 is marginally better but with all it's drawbacks it's like trading Win7 for Win3.11 because Win3.11 runs faster on your PC.

Lokifish Marz said:
User experience better than WT2, maybe. WT3 still has many of the user experience bugs I covered over a year ago with Evo Desktop PC. Better user experience than Webtop+ or Ubuntop, not even close. Editing any type or large document or image editing proves that.
Battery life? WT3 is marginally better but with all it's drawbacks it's like trading Win7 for Win3.11 because Win3.11 runs faster on your PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point but judging by the campaign webtop is positioned as a tool for browsing the web, web docs, music/video entertainment and phone functionality. My money says 3.0 takes the win in ALL of these categories. And showcasing this fact on YouTube IMO is the desirable, passive ***** slap moto deserves, as opposed to this boycott moto mentality that is generally ineffective.
Engadget headline: xda Devs lol'd in moto's face
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

aaron.a said:
Good point but judging by the campaign webtop is positioned as a tool for browsing the web, web docs, music/video entertainment and phone functionality. My money says 3.0 takes the win in ALL of these categories. And showcasing this fact on YouTube IMO is the desirable, passive ***** slap moto deserves, as opposed to this boycott moto mentality that is generally ineffective.
Engadget headline: xda Devs lol'd in moto's face
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"ineffective", I think not. This campaign has already lost moto over a million dollars in sales. One contract cancellation alone cost them a possible $800K sale. You have to remember that Moto didn't ditch a couple phones but millions worldwide. Add in the press coverage by over 40 outlets and the proof that Moto was full of crap, you get the idea as to where this is going. If the estimated sales figures are correct (total estimates place the figure at over 3 million Tegra2 moto's sold worldwide) and only 20% of those affected ditch Moto, then the loss is around 600K devices (if Moto only makes $100 per device that's a 60 million dollar loss). Even Apple couldn't ignore numbers like that.
As far as WT3. It's a launcher. Already proved that a couple days ago. The is nothing really unique to WT3, it's a gimmick. If ICS was out on the Evo back in April of last year, WT3 would have been a one for one copy of Evo Desktop.

Developer Edition Community Stretch Goals

*This thread is about discussing the future of the Dev Edition as it pertains to the relationship between us and Samsung, and what we need from them. This thread will also contain official updates and information from my contacts at Samsung corporate.*
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm back home and able to respond again in regards to the DE situation. As you all know I had dedicated time to dealing with corporate on the matter of getting our phones in stock and working on other stretch goals such as software support. I told you all that Monday would be a good day but to be honest I had a feeling that we wouldn't have had our products shipped until Tuesday. I have a few ideas as to why this is the case, but more importantly I would like to emphasize and state something very important in regards to our participation in the developer program.
In all my dealings with the project managers and corporate wigs at Samsung I represented the cause on behalf of our community which no one there had heard of. I explained to them the importance and the legacy of XDA Developers, but most of all I made sure to tell them about the tight-knit community that helps each other out, the portal of people who band together in solidarity to raise support for developers, leaders, products. Most importantly I told them that not only does this credo bind us as a small group of users, but that the most important phone advancements come from communities like ours.
With that being said, we have a prime opportunity to make history by influencing their developer program in in a positive way. For that we need everyone to please be civil and respectful when dealing with Samsung customer service at the mobile accessories department. It is not their fault these phones were not ready to go out and they are willing to make it right. I say this as someone with an overnight order that not only didn't go out until today, but went out as ground shipping instead for Monday. There are hundreds of us, many calling in, and the last thing we need is to turn this into a clustercluck. The more positive we make this experience, the better.
I promised it would be a good holiday weekend with the Note 4 so take the time to enjoy it. The delay does push us back a bit on our goals. Tomorrow I will get to the bottom of this and hopefully get you an official explanation. Though we are delayed a bit, the volume of sales was larger than I expected initially which means that we now have a larger community. As one of "The First 40" from last month, we only had a couple of threads and not too much going on. I want to change that and so I will reach out to the mods and see if we can get our own space to collaborate and work together. This requires teamwork and participation as well as patience and a dash of happiness.
My contacts at Samsung see our numbers as leverage to get the things we really want, like support and original firmware as well as possible future updates. There's a lot riding on this so we can't mess it up. I can't delve into specifics about everything I've discussed with them but we may be looking at changing the way vendors officially view unlocked bootloaders and custom roms.
I've drawn up what in my experience is a good map of where to go from here with the product. If you have any input and information, this is the thread to add to the Developer Edition project pipeline. I can't believe we have to do the work for them and we aren't even paid for this, though someone's got to do it or else none of us are getting the full product experience we paid hundreds of dollars for.
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Any questions/concerns/goal ideas/requests here. This should be a good starting map of where to go from here. It is imperative that we all have our units, and we all have the safety net needed to not brick our units which is why Goal 2 is so important. Then we can go on to have custom ROMs. We'll need to collaborate but for now we will enjoy the device this week and figure out what you'd like to see out of the future with Samsung and the dev program.
Sincerely,
Virgil Woods

Reserved for Goal 1 Updates
Update 1: With a one day delay, many of us are getting the phones and it's now out of stock again. Great work, I doubt we will have an idea of when it will be back in stock until next week because of the holidays.
Please take a moment to answer this one question survey on whether you were able to order a DE or you want to and are waiting on the back-order. This will give us a good head count for demand.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1uf...8JgFisXC4/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link
Thank you.

Reserved for Goal 2 Updates

Reserved for Goal 3 Updates

How about a program similar to HTC? This would solve almost all problems without even having another sku..

I just looked over the HTC dev program, it's pretty simple and easy to implement something similar but on a smaller scope as a test. The only problem I see with Samsung rejecting the release of the files we need is that it could be used on non-DE models to make them DE editions as we noticed with the latest shipping. Remember, Samsung is still a business and not our buddies so they need a fiscal motivation to compete with HTC, which we've shown them with this high demand. So far they have been painfully ignorant of growing demands and I would attribute it to them not knowing how to properly implement/make money off of this.

I understand what you are saying but why have a developer edition period. If you are talking from a Fiscal standpoint, why does it matter who unlocks the bootloader. I guarantee that they lose sales to HTC because people want root. Nexus and HTC are gaining popularity as Samsung is losing popularity. Verizon and AT&T are losing sales and T-mobile is gaining sales.
People don't want to have to pay full retail when they can upgrade and unlock the retail version...
Here is another consideration, why should someone who pays full retail price for the retail version not be able to unlock the bootloader. It's not Samsung who owns the device... Samsung is greedy for the money... If you give the customer what they deserve that in itself will increase sales.
Why don't you pitch that idea to them. Give the consumer the choice, what Samsung has done was push away customers and make us Angry.. I applaud HTC, they did it right

Hi Virgil, here's a problem I see with your approach. Samsung knows all to well that the huge majority of people buying the Developer Edition of their phones are not developers. They are everyday users who are willing to pay the extra money for a phone they can install a custom recovery on and root. I don't know the statistics for sure, but I would bet that 98% of the Developer Edition Note 4 (for instance) sales have been generated by everyday users...not developers.
I've bought 3 developer devices from Samsung previously. With each previous purchase there was a questionnaire that you had to complete (obviously designed for developers) before your order would be processed. That questionnaire was/is not present in the sales "process" for the Note 4. A developer program is a great idea, but won't go far without real, no kidding developers.
If we want to give Samsung a reason to take our "developer community" serious then we need to find a whole lot of developers.

The whole developer thing is dumb...I own a Dev N3. You have to pay full retail for a device that will never get any updates or any stock firmware package to fall back on. Each dev bootloader has its own signature that is device specific, so there is no way to upgrade the bootloader without a dev specifically signing it to your device. I am running 4.4 Alliance build 2 on a 4.3 bootloader and because of that I have a few small quirks with youtube and bluetooth. Not a huge deal but it irks me.
Samsung should just allow you to have the choice to unlock your bootloader via fastboot at the cost of a voided warranty. Samsung once had the Smartphone market by the ballz. Now they are losing ground.

Sorry guys and girls we need to wait a few days for the Samsung internal team to decide upon the expansion of the developer program before we can begin to see any changes. I was told by the project director that there will be an internal meeting this week and our suggestions have been taken to account. I'm sorry I have nothing better for the community for now. I really want that original firmware most of all so we can begin developing.
Stay tuned and thanks again.
Sincerely,
Virgil Woods

VirgilWoods said:
Sorry guys and girls we need to wait a few days for the Samsung internal team to decide upon the expansion of the developer program before we can begin to see any changes. I was told by the project director that there will be an internal meeting this week and our suggestions have been taken to account. I'm sorry I have nothing better for the community for now. I really want that original firmware most of all so we can begin developing.
Stay tuned and thanks again.
Sincerely,
Virgil Woods
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Virgil,
Just wanted to say "Thanks" for doing this. It's nice to hear updates from someone who actually does have some inside knowledge even if a particular update is just that we are being heard and more info may come later.

Yeahp THANK YOU

VirgilWoods said:
Sorry guys and girls we need to wait a few days for the Samsung internal team to decide upon the expansion of the developer program before we can begin to see any changes. I was told by the project director that there will be an internal meeting this week and our suggestions have been taken to account. I'm sorry I have nothing better for the community for now. I really want that original firmware most of all so we can begin developing.
Stay tuned and thanks again.
Sincerely,
Virgil Woods
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your persistance, Virgil. If you can get them to release firmware for the Developer Edition Note 4 you will have promoted yourself from Liason to "The Man".

Motorola Failure to Meet Update Commitments; Petition.

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As many owners of Motorola's Atrix, Atrix HD, Moto E and other models know all too well...
- Motorola has not maintained an organized or regular update cycle for their devices.
- Motorola has repeatedly broken vague promises and hard commitments to update devices.
- This includes cases where the updates were promised on the Motorola website.
- This includes a case where the update was released with details posted on-line but was not actually delivered to the devices stated.
- There has been an instance where an OTA that was a 5.0.x update was displayed as 5.1.x when being installed.
- Some of the affected devices are not service provider branded (just Moto) so Motorola cannot blame the SP as they have in the past.
Picking up on an idea considered when Motorola backed out of their commitment to update the Atrix HD to Lollipop last year, an on-line petition has been created to let Motorola know this is not right. It is focused on the Moto E but is crafted so it can be signed by anyone who has been betrayed by Motorola's failed update commitments or want to see a better way of handling updates. If there is any resolution as a result of this petition, it is unlikely to extend far but we can still let them know about it.
https://www.change.org/p/motorola-f...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
Of course feel free to share details about pertinent experiences here in this thread but if you want Motorola to hear it, sign the petition and share the link to it. Also, For the Moto E you can make it known here at the Moto thread where details about the Moto E update are posted https://forums.motorola.com/posts/83391de77a?page=1.
Motorola once was, and should still be, capable of better than this!
------------------------------------
Nov 1, 2016, Greetings:
Motorola. Has finally updated most of the Moto E line to Android Marshmallow. Even some of the devices thought to be left off the update list (such as US retail single sim XT1511) eventually got Marshmallow, although sadly only after many boot-loaders were unlocked. Also, this Change.org petition for Moto E has been automatically closed (naturally expired), which was timely because it serves no purpose anymore, so I'll leave it expired and will ask to have this thread closed. I thank all who participated with signatures or in spirit. It was small in scope but every little bit helps.
One last thing: Although Moto E has been updated, Motorola has not mended it's poor updating ways and have done something similar (even worse by many measures) to yet another device, the Moto G3. There is a petition for that described in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/2015...sprey-t3476321 which I encourage all affected to sign.

You should probably post this in AF also, if you've not already dine so.
Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

starkly_raving said:
You should probably post this in AF also, if you've not already dine so.
Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean Android Forums, I've dug up some links to old posts of mine there (or was it Android Central, I don't recall) but they did not seem like good spots for this. Still, it's a good idea. I should be able to find a suitable place at other forums, and am open to specific recommendations. Also, everyone should feel free to share the link to the petition.

Signed and shared.

IronTechmonkey said:
If you mean Android Forums, I've dug up some links to old posts of mine there (or was it Android Central, I don't recall) but they did not seem like good spots for this. Still, it's a good idea. I should be able to find a suitable place at other forums, and am open to specific recommendations. Also, everyone should feel free to share the link to the petition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe post on Reddit too? The Android community is pretty big there.

Signed!

Ace42 said:
Maybe post on Reddit too? The Android community is pretty big there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another good idea. Thanks!

I think you guys shouldnt give a penny to motorola instead of moaning to let them hear your voice. Motorola simply doesnt give the smallest damn about this kind of petitions. Tried and didnt work for numerous times. Dont buy motorola, dont let anyone around you buy motorolas, that is what motorola deserves for their customer relations, marketing and update lies.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

Semseddin said:
I think you guys shouldnt give a penny to motorola instead of moaning to let them hear your voice. Motorola simply doesnt give the smallest damn about this kind of petitions. Tried and didnt work for numerous times. Dont buy motorola, dont let anyone around you buy motorolas, that is what motorola deserves for their customer relations, marketing and update lies.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Boycott is not a bad idea either but that sort of action may actually be harder to organize than efforts like a petition. Have you ever organized a boycott or a petition about this subject? The action of withholding dollars, and the action of creating a petition are not mutually exclusive. Unfortunately many of us already posses these devices and do not have the option to redirect money to a different device at this point but would still like to do something about it. There are no guarantees, but this type of pressure has been made to work before. For me personally, having first used Motorola gear in the form of gray brick shaped walkie talkies and under-dash radios in the 1980s, and since then always being impressed with whatever Motorola device I encountered across a wide range of hardware types; wanting to see Moto do better is part of this. Also, please do note that discouraging the petition and calling it "moaning" in the very thread where it is shared may not go over well.

I miss IDEN.

nobreak1970 said:
I miss IDEN.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What am I missing here?
[EDIT] Oh, I see. You're going old school as well. Nice.

IronTechmonkey said:
Boycott is not a bad idea either but that sort of action may actually be harder to organize than efforts like a petition. Have you ever organized a boycott or a petition about this subject? The action of withholding dollars, and the action of creating a petition are not mutually exclusive. Unfortunately many of us already posses these devices and do not have the option to redirect money to a different device at this point but would still like to do something about it. There are no guarantees, but this type of pressure has been made to work before. For me personally, having first used Motorola gear in the form of gray brick shaped walkie talkies and under-dash radios in the 1980s, and since then always being impressed with whatever Motorola device I encountered across a wide range of hardware types; wanting to see Moto do better is part of this. Also, please do note that discouraging the petition and calling it "moaning" in the very thread where it is shared may not go over well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't organized a petition like this before but participated for atrix 4g ics update and xt910 bootloader unlock petitions back in time, the electronic signs were counted by nearly 10k and motorola didnt give the smallest damn about those, just igroned us. I am not here to discourage anyone but i posted just to say dont bother your precious time to tame a liar company in a friendly manner, not worth it. They dont listen to their customers at all. I also like motorola hardware and that is where it ends for me, everything else in motorola just have the stinkny worst smell of all. Their marketing, service team, software team are all the worst but they used to have good engineers, not sure if they still have them looking at their 2015 portfolio can be called at best pathetic.
Hope you guys get the updates you deserve for your devices though. Just dont buy anything else branded motorola in future, this will teach them better how to behave as a responsible company when they dont see money flowing into their vault.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

Semseddin said:
.....electronic signs were counted by nearly 10k...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
10k? To believe that number I would have to have see proof, including the specific details and target/recipient of the petition.
Semseddin said:
. .. I am not here to discourage anyone but i posted just to say dont bother your precious time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Within one 18 word statement you contradict yourself. If you don't like the food being served then don't pull up to the table. Perhaps you could vent by creating an anti petition petition that discourages people from signing petitions, but whatever you do please take it elsewhere.

Not really surprised by this sadly.

IronTechmonkey said:
10k? To believe that number I would have to have see proof, including the specific details and target/recipient of the petition.
Within one 18 word statement you contradict yourself. If you don't like the food being served then don't pull up to the table. Perhaps you could vent by creating an anti petition petition that discourages people from signing petitions, but whatever you do please take it elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever, live your dream. Here is your numbers. Operation mosh, signed by 16k
https://www.change.org/p/motorola-mobility-inc-unlock-all-smartphone-bootloaders-2
Supportmymoto, no numbers but way above 10k supporters and real media support in a pro way.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32363139#post32363139
Now, you got ur numbers. Those petitions were for phones in premium range above 400$. Motorola just ignored them. You believe motorola would give a damn about your 50$ phone? Good luck with your dreams.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

Semseddin said:
...Operation mosh, signed by 16k https://www.change.org/p/motorola-mobility-inc-unlock-all-smartphone-bootloaders-2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impressive that they got 16k and I agree with it in principal but that is a request to unlock bootloader, against which Motorola (and other device manufacturers) are well insulated legally. The same is not necessarily the case for provably failed published commitments to provide a product or service.
Semseddin said:
Supportmymoto, no numbers but way above 10k supporters and real media support in a pro way.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32363139#post32363139
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A well presented case with good coverage but again, it is for getting an unlocked bootloader which is a steeper uphill battle.
Semseddin said:
....Good luck with your dreams....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the warm wishes, and for the details of the other actions, which I did find informative, helpful, and actually encouraging (although I still have modest hopes).

i am impressed the poll has 80 / 100 right now cool !
I wouldn't have had to rip my hair out today trying to install v5.1 onto my Moto-E if they update with my oem (Telus)
It sucks because i just wanted to run the stock rom
I got it installed but no matter what i tried i couldn't get the provider connection back for calls/txt's
What a drag too ..i swear it started up and ran fast than 5.0.2 (what i went back to)
Thank god i made a TWRP backup before meddling with things..
So hell yeah i voted
edit:
It's totally stupid they only updated *some of the oem's with 5.1
that is a massive slap in the face to those of us who missed out on v5.1 Lollipop !

I won't buy Motorola any more

Just a bit of an update. The petition now has 120 signatures which tells me that people must be sharing the link. Thanks to everyone who has signed and circulated it! I don't know what that really means in terms of the ability to exert some commercial pressure on Motorola but it does indicate that there are many people impacted by this, especially when you consider that there are likely large #s of people using the affected devices who don't participate in forums like this.
When I first gathered contact information for the petition, Motorola Customer Service provided an email address for the CEO that turned out to be incorrect. Fortunately I had others and sent a test email to see which would be rejected as invalid before creating the petition. Considering that experience, I've started searching outside the Moto support track for names and contact information for all of the Moto executives and departments that I can find to widen the target.
Thanks again to all who've signed, circulated, and provided constructive input.
[EDIT] Shared by user hyzteric at the Moto "excuse making forum" https://forums.motorola.com/posts/83391de77a?commentId=1000234#1000234 is news that the Mote E is still being sold which is really low.
http://www.androidcentral.com/motorola-either-update-moto-e-or-stop-selling-it
I already knew this but had not considered the ramifications. They are still sticking it to new purchasers of those devices. Lower than low!

Semseddin said:
.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soooo, although we differ on the merits of a petition we are in the same boat (betrayed by Moto) even if we may disagree on how to navigate it, and I must thank you for the details of the actions to which you referred. While hunting down email addresses of Moto's executives I also found the addresses from one of those previous actions. Between the ones I found that were not on that list and the ones from that list we now have a wider target for the petition.
Seriously - Thanks!
One thing I hope we have going for us this time is that it was/is not illegal for Motorola to decline to share their source code, but what they did this time might actually be illegal or at least actionable in a commercial sense.

What do you think about your phone? Here comes a survey from Honor

Hey all,
What do you think about your phone? Below is an online survey from honor team to get more insights on your needs. :highfive:
Survey link - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6R3QT58

Rox_Honor said:
Hey all,
What do you think about your phone? Below is an online survey from honor team to get more insights on your needs. :highfive:
Survey link - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6R3QT58
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far good but im music lover and like to snap photos, honor is good taking pictures but it sucks audio loud speaker specially watching videos on YouTube ?????

Rox_Honor said:
Hey all,
What do you think about your phone? Below is an online survey from honor team to get more insights on your needs. :highfive:
Survey link - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6R3QT58
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why should any body on XDA do anything to help Honor ?
Honor made an aggreement with XDA saying that the Honor 8 was going to be a great phone for us when you know that what we want in a phone is updates and prompt response to releasing kernel source code.
You guys have done neither.
I'm running my Honor 8 on EMUI 5 with it's stock 380 update.
This update is terrible.
It's buggy and the battery life is terrible.
We have been asking for you to release kernel source code for months now and have received no answer.
Were stuck on an outdated version of EMUI 5.
You have released EMUI 5.1 but won't give it to us.
It's now April and were stuck on January security patch.
Honor you do your bit and then you can ask us to help you.
John
If you looking on XDA then you must have read just how unhappy people are.
You must have read the ROM's and kernel's thread and must have read how close we are in getting a fully working Lineage 14.1 and must have read how if you released your EMUI 5 kernel source code.
If you reading all this why are you not helping ?

@op that survey has nothing to do with the Honor 8. Stop spamming and get to the real matter as others have advised, we need quicker turn around for updates and Hotfixes be it Honor/Huawei or Google Hotfixes. Kernel source CODE is badly needed ASAP we need at least a engineer from Honor to help out in the Freedom of building Roms which install and run properly..
All in all its a great phone but socks like many Honor / Huawei devices for support...

Nyssa1104 said:
@op that survey has nothing to do with the Honor 8. Stop spamming and get to the real matter as others have advised, we need quicker turn around for updates and Hotfixes be it Honor/Huawei or Google Hotfixes. Kernel source CODE is badly needed ASAP we need at least a engineer from Honor to help out in the Freedom of building Roms which install and run properly..
All in all its a great phone but socks like many Honor / Huawei devices for support...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems like huawei are in race releasing new devices rather maintaining an updates for their devices.
I think now they're only cared about how much of their devices sale's.

faizalotai said:
Seems like huawei are in race releasing new devices rather maintaining an updates for their devices.
I think now they're only cared about how much of their devices sale's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree with you there..
Damn shame as I do like the device just wished Rooting and mods were fare easier that what they are at the moment.. Had my device from Dec 2016 and we're at April 2017 and no changes from Honor to date..

faizalotai said:
Seems like huawei are in race releasing new devices rather maintaining an updates for their devices.
I think now they're only cared about how much of their devices sale's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly what's going on.
All these manufacturers want is to sell phones.
If they just took a step back and looked at what Google do different that sell so many phones.
Release source code and updates promptly

Rox_Honor said:
Hey all,
What do you think about your phone? Below is an online survey from honor team to get more insights on your needs. :highfive:
Survey link - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6R3QT58
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=71815504&postcount=3
Start making good on your promises and maybe you'll get some help. It would be one thing if Honor had never promised anything, then it would just be an unfortunate delay. The problem is that Honor said that certain things would happen and they have never happened.

Nyssa1104 said:
Totally agree with you there..
Damn shame as I do like the device just wished Rooting and mods were fare easier that what they are at the moment.. Had my device from Dec 2016 and we're at April 2017 and no changes from Honor to date..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing the path of Xiaomi. They went from n.1 seller in China to down the table. Only pleasing the stockholders is a short term vision. They had probably the lowest customer retention in the last years.

Rox_Honor said:
Hey all,
What do you think about your phone? Below is an online survey from honor team to get more insights on your needs. :highfive:
Survey link - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6R3QT58
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@Rox_Honor
At least take the time to read and reply to these messages.
You posted on here yesterday asking us to do something for you guys.
Least you could do is take the time to reply.
Ur the Honor rep

johnhux7 said:
@Rox_Honor
At least take the time to read and reply to these messages.
You posted on here yesterday asking us to do something for you guys.
Least you could do is take the time to reply.
Ur the Honor rep
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, one way communication.

Whatever, honor and Huawei don't actually care about the north American market other than sales.
Well, that's fine. We'll show them the same dedication by simply not buying anymore Huawei or honor devices.
Lots of other great manufacturers out there making excellent devices, and actually stick to their promises.