So I have been talking with some friends, and I am going to go ahead with a KickStarter for a modular phone.
Now before you say: "That has been tried", you are right. However, Project Ara and Phonebloks were just TOO out there. The engineers that thought those projects were a good idea need to be beat -- but I digress.
What I have in mind is a little more like a PC. You have a case (shell), you have RAM, and CPU/GPU, power supply (battery)
In the shell, you get the cameras, touch sensor, screen, choice of single or dual batteries.
The only components that will be replaceable are:
* CPU (which has the GPU and modem)
* NAND
* Battery
Basically the idea is that you pick a "shell" that you like:
* 5" / 5.5" / 6" (OLED / LCD)
* Camera choices [insert here]
* Single or dual battery
* Single or dual SIM
etc
CPU/GPU
* SD820
* SD835
* SD845
NAND
* 16gig
* 32gig
* 64gig
* 128gig
These are just examples... The purpose of this post is to get ideas on what YOU want. There can only be so many choices, or manufacturing would be a nightmare.
The important part is that you would be able to UPGRADE. Say a SD855 comes out, you don't throw / sell your whole phone, you just pull out the CPU/GPU module and replace it.
So, give me some ideas as to what should be in the shell. IP67 / IP68 will probably not be possible. I don't know enough to say one way or the other right now, but assume it isn't.
Again, this is JUST hardware, don't worry about the software side of things. I will outline what I have in mind, in the next post, along with how security will be handled. Suffice it to say, I will take what I have learned about POSSIBLE holes, and close them. From the factory, the phone will be the more secure than the iPhone, but more importantly, if YOU want to control that security, you will be able to. More to come when I finish crafting up the software / security post.
-- Brian
So, software and security, how can you eat your cake and have it too?
By default, the phone will come locked. It will use an RSA key that is kept under lock and key. There will be no traditional download mode, or recovery. There will be no adb, no fastboot.
When you boot the phone, the only thing you will get is the OS. So let's say a kernel exploit comes along, or something like Janus that allows you to modify a signed app -- there is no way to install it because you won't even have a terminal. All thanks to SELinux. But OK, someone finds some exploit to modify system -- it is write protected at the hardware level.
I have had a LOT of time to think about how to seal every last hole in Andorid, but, I will be consulting with actual security experts to make sure nothing is missed. I mean look at the Switch, if you have the right hardware you can use attack vectors that you might not think of from a "closed box" mentality -- I want to avoid those as well.
So, how do you get control of YOUR phone?
When the phone boots, you will be required to input a PIN, password, key (I am not sure about the technical details on this one yet) that will give you access to an unlock port. In the future, if you want to unlock your phone, you will go to a website just like you do to unlock carrier free LG phones, and download a file that is unique to your phone. This will NOT void your warranty. You will then use this file, along with your (pin, password, key) to unlock your phone.
It will be done this way for a couple of reasons. Before getting the file, you will be made aware that your phone's security is now YOUR responsibility. If you leave it unlocked, then anyone that has physical access to it can install pretty much whatever they want.
Once unlocked, you will have access at the PBL level. If you just want root, you can flash a vendor supported version of TWRP (no point in reinventing the wheel), you will then be able to flash a vendor supported kernel that will allow you to modify system. Viola -- you have root.
So how do you secure your phone again? You will have the ability to install your own RSA key. There will be three modes that the phone will run in:
* Fully secure stock from factory
* Fully unlocked
* Relocked with YOUR key.
This last mode will have two modes:
* Hybrid - all the firmware is still verified by the factory key, but boot and system are verified with your key.
* Developer - all the firmware needs to be signed with your key.
Tools will be provided to make this very easy, but at the end of the day, if you have an unlocked phone, security is up to you.
So how about OTA updates? They will only be available on a factory locked phone. Once the phone is unlocked, you will have to download updates yourself. If you have installed your own keys, then you will be able to sign the updates. This allows you to keep your phone locked. If you have a fully unlocked phone, then you can just flash the unsigned updates.
By updates, so far I have been referring to just the firmware, not the OS. So what about the OS?
From the factory, the phone will ship with bone stock Android. As long as you don't install another ROM, you will be able to update your OS as well.
So what if you want to install another ROM? Have at it, but you can no longer take OS updates -- but you can take firmware updates.
So what about third party ROMs? It is always a bit of a pain to get a ROM running a new phone because vendors don't want to help -- we will. We will have a development community run by our programmers for the specific purpose of helping to get a ROM ported.
So you don't want to run Android? Fine, again, you will be able to have access all the way from the PBL. You can't modify the PBL -- that is on the CPU, but the first thing that the PBL loads is the XBL, and you will be able to run whatever you want.
So how do we get this past the FCC? Modem firmware will be the one no no. Sorry, that is just life. Take it up with the FCC. The thing is, you will have no reason to modify, or install different modem firmware. From the factory, all bands will be available, so you gain nothing.
If all of this sounded to technical, then I can sum it up with -- the phone will be yours. Do as little or as much as you want with it. Just know that from the factory, it will be the most secure phone ever made -- but also, even if you modify it, YOU can KEEP it secure.
-- Brian
Reserved for FAQ
runningnak3d said:
snip-- Brian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what do we do, donate a certain amount of money? If that's the case, is it fair to say this would need about 100k to get going? I know China can manufacture things really cheap. Though I think there is much more too it.
Also I want to see a quad DAC. Dual speakers, Dolby Atmos. Refresh rate of 120 like the Razer phone. 4gb of ram. SD card slot. Official XDA Android with XDA labs baked in.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
I am willing to donate too ☺
BROKEN1981 said:
So what do we do, donate a certain amount of money? If that's the case, is it fair to say this would need about 100k to get going? I know China can manufacture things really cheap. Though I think there is much more too it.
Also I want to see a quad DAC. Dual speakers, Dolby Atmos. Refresh rate of 120 like the Razer phone. 4gb of ram. SD card slot. Official XDA Android with XDA labs baked in.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want any app baked into my OS that is not mandatory for the phone to work.
Going along the lines of what has been done on the v20, including a 3.5mm jack would be sweet. So many phones are getting rid of them and they are still a very useful port. Also a nice dac and amp of some sort to output great audio would be awesome. If possible, up the capacity of the battery from the v20's 3200 mAh. It just isn't enough in some cases.
toastyp said:
Going along the lines of what has been done on the v20, including a 3.5mm jack would be sweet. So many phones are getting rid of them and they are still a very useful port. Also a nice dac and amp of some sort to output great audio would be awesome. If possible, up the capacity of the battery from the v20's 3200 mAh. It just isn't enough in some cases.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thankfully, a DAC implies that there is an analog audio jack. Otherwise, what are you converting? I mean, it's not technically a rule because you could do something insane (and proprietary) with the USB-C port, but why?
I would like to see a quad DAC and 120hz screen. A back power button with the fingerprint scanner would also be nice
Since most people here are going to be V20 owners, I think the V20 chassis is a solid starting point. Ignoring all the hypothetically changeable hardware components, what we have left to consider are a screen, fingerprint reader, A/V options, port connectivity, camera, and aesthetic design considerations.
Personally, I would just clone the V20 and make the main and secondary screens OLED. I think the curved corners that have become the rage on newer phones are stupid (We spent over a decade getting away from rounded corners in UI design, and now people want them physically on their screens? FOH), but the screen must be 18:9 if those are going to make an appearance. Some people might prefer the 3.5mm jack on top, but it has no practical effect on me either way. Stereo speakers could be a consideration, but I don't use phone speakers for music playback.
Apart from that, I have a hard time thinking of other hardware features or predicting what hardware features may catch on in the future.
VZW compatibility
Implementing the volume rocker on the back instead of the side is a must. It'd add a touch of originality again since LG decided to join the bandwagon
Edit: and adding an extra hardware button we can map. Like how you can map the Bixby button on the galaxies
Always wondered why know one attempted to do this years ago, upgradable like a pc.
But i think you can go one step further and give a choice of screens also OLED or LCD since you say you have the software side covered then implementing different screens but the same size would be easy.
in the shell i guess a dedicated dac, ear phone jack,
Would this be modular as In DIY upgradable nand/cpu or would it be made to order.
I see alot of brickwalls as you cannot simply order a snapdragon 835 online in single digits....so im guessing this is made to order to your preference.
There a companys where you can do this but the quantity is in the hundreds where you make to order slap your logo on.
Not really sure what the aim is?
Zyker019 said:
Implementing the volume rocker on the back instead of the side is a must. It'd add a touch of originality again since LG decided to join the bandwagon
Edit: and adding an extra hardware button we can map. Like how you can map the Bixby button on the galaxies
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would never buy a device with volume on the back. It makes no sense.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
Software post updated, and I will update the FAQ, and hardware sections ASAP. To address some of the posts so far, yes, it WILL have a 3.5mm analog jack. I need to do some research, but I may add the DAC as a replaceable part.
@goulash2011 Yea, purchasing quantity is something I am working on.
This is a build to order phone, but it will be up (or downgradeable).
-- Brian
Umm well, I am not sure why this didn't turn up in my first searches for modular phones: https://www.fairphone.com/en/our-goals/design/
If you read their site, it sound like I ripped this post straight from it. I didn't. They have the exact idea, but it appears that they are having some issues with demand (you have to get on a waiting list). Also, the modules haven't been updated in a while. If nothing else, it proves it can be done, I am going to contact them and try to find out when they plan on (or if they do) releasing an SD835 module, and for that matter a 2k screen.
They actually went above and beyond what I had in mind for modules... if you have the time, their site is a good read. They are also looking to be very open with the software, but it doesn't look like they care as much about security.
-- Brian
This project sounds really cool and I have got a few ideas for the cameras sensors:
OV12890 - 1.55 µm / 12MP / 240fps /1080p / 60fps 4K 1/2.3"
This is an Omnivison sensor (probably cheaper than an IMX) which is basically a carbon copy of the IMX 378 with bumped up fps in video. I know these are FPS in perfect hardware conditions, but with a snapdragon 835 and native support for HDR this camera may be one of the best in a smartphone from a hardware perspective.
OS08A10 - 2 µm / 8MP / 120fps 1080p / 60fps 4K / 1/2"
I know this is a bit of a stretch, the sensor is very large in the smartphone industry but i am sure you can make space for it. Just imagine coupled with a low aperture lens the low light shots and videos from this thing .
IMX230 - 1.12 µm / 21MP / 60fps 1080p / 30fps 4K / 1/2.4"
This Sony IMX sensor may not seem too impressive but the photos are packed with detail especially when paired with Googles HDR algorithm, from a software standpoint this can be the perfect ratio of pixel size to MP, so you can sacrifice megapixels although still retain the same detail with a 12MP image with virtually no noise. While the pictures are very nice, videos are mostly just above average with nothing too fancy.
All of these sensors are not really mainstream so prices should not be to bad.
I think you could also make dual camera setups where people can buy basically two sensors in special enclosure, a nice combination would be the OV12890 and the IMX 230 with the OV12890 being the main sensor doing video and primary camera functions while IMX is 230 more in the back end which can enhance the resolution, de-noise images, add more data in RAW shots, maybe be used as a telephoto or wide angle sensor and of course portrait mode.
Another dual setup could be simply two OV12890 sensors with again the second sensor adding portrait capabilities, more RAW data, ect... but a key feature could be true 480fps 1080p slo motion I know this may sound stupid but when the primary sensor takes its first frame the secondary sensor takes its frame from the interval between the time it takes to get to the second frame to be taken which essentially doubles the frames per second, this may be possible but the snapdragon 835 although it may not be able to support this as it is a very stressful workload, you could do what Sony did with XZ Premium with short bursts of slo mo or instead of rendering the image live, it can be done at the end where the software stitches the video together. This can also work in favor for HDR stitching with both sensors taking burst photos giving double the output of a conventional sensor.
That was a very insightful post, and all of it doable. However, I have to find out what problems fairphone is running into:
* Noise on the bus?
* General manufacturing problems
* Money problems? Can't generate enough cash to buy in large enough quantity?
* Patent issues?
My main beef is still software. My G4 runs Oreo just fine, but nooooo LG wants me to buy a V30 if I want Oreo. That is horsesh**
-- Brian
runningnak3d said:
Umm well, I am not sure why this didn't turn up in my first searches for modular phones: https://www.fairphone.com/en/our-goals/design/
If you read their site, it sound like I ripped this post straight from it. I didn't. They have the exact idea, but it appears that they are having some issues with demand (you have to get on a waiting list). Also, the modules haven't been updated in a while. If nothing else, it proves it can be done, I am going to contact them and try to find out when they plan on (or if they do) releasing an SD835 module, and for that matter a 2k screen.
They actually went above and beyond what I had in mind for modules... if you have the time, their site is a good read. They are also looking to be very open with the software, but it doesn't look like they care as much about security.
-- Brian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I see the problem. The mods are a bit expensive, not too many people would be interested, meaning hardly any demand. To keep cost down, you need to involve China. Look at the growing pains of 1+.
I hate to be so negative, but upgradable phones will always be a dead project.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
I think I see the problem. The mods are a bit expensive, not too many people would be interested, meaning hardly any demand. To keep cost down, you need to involve China. Look at the growing pains of 1+.
I hate to be so negative, but upgradable phones will always be a dead project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not being negative.. Just setting a marketing reality. Which I completely agree with. It's to far and beyond for the current market of things.
Related
What kind of device would it take to make you leave touch HD and switch to something new?
I've been looking at some of the latest generation devices popping out (from various manufacturers) and I have to say I have not been not one bit tempted to make the switch.
So, for some future imaginary HTC device, here's what I'd like to see addressed:
Hardware related:
1. Illuminated hardware touch sensitive keys. I really hate this isn't present on Touch HD. A tinly LED would solve this and make the device much more usable in the dark.
2. More hardware keys. Perhaps a camera button, or simply few "blank" buttons that users can customize. A scroll wheel would be awesome.
3. A better visual indicator of received / missed calls and messages. That tiny LED on power button is hardly noticeable. They should've placed it on front side.
4. More easier way to soft-reset and swap memory cards. Perhaps dual memory card slots.
5. Make the device slightly more responsive, either by increasing memory / processor speed, or optimizing the bundled software. If ROM chefs can do it, I guess HTC can too.
6. FLASHLIGHT LED (This should've been the first on the list )
7. Add multi-touch.
8. Video output would be nice.
9. Make an accessory that would serve as a small portable and detachable Bluetooth keyboard. I can't figure out why HTC doesn't offer this. Is it so hard to rip out the keyboard from say new Touch Pro 2 and put a battery and Bluetooth chip inside that would work as a HID interface device?
SOFTWARE RELATED
1. Proper drivers that support hardware video acceleration.
2. Complete overhaul of Touch Flo 3D. Make it skinnable, make it highly user-configurable, integrate it even deeper over ugly WinMo.
3. Fix the annoying bugs.
4. Add default Divx and Xvid support. For a device with word "HD" in it's name, and such a big screen, this really should've been done long ago.
I'll leave other ideas to you
I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.
Wiggz said:
I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you in some aspects. Yes their will never be a perfect phone as everyone has different opinions on what the perfect phone is. So what may be perfect to you, may be no where near perfect for me etc. Thats why there will always be a wide variety of phones.
I disagree with you on manufacturers bundling everything into phones as that is what is currently being implemented by all manufacturers. Phones nowadays aren't just a phone they have cameras, radios, mp3 players, navigational apps like tomtom, tv tuners, personal organisers etc. Why have one of each when you can have one in all. This is what the customer wants and the manufacturers are realising this and are already producing devices with this already built in. With time the quality of these devices will improve.....but there will always be room for improvement. This is why we will never be happy IMO. For example. If you go out and buy a 50 inch plasma tv. Next year a better model will e available and you will want it instead etc etc etc.
Thats my 2 cents anyhow!!
Happy to say that people share the same thought. at least it is one step closer to be perfect.
Wiggz said:
I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure a "perfect" device will never be made. There were some in the past that would pretty much fit into "perfect" category, based on their market position and "features vs. price vs. usability".
Also, I do not advocate putting everything into every device, but as you know, Touch HD is sitting pretty much at the top of the food chain when it comes to Windows Mobile devices. So, it's logical that it's feature pack will be bigger then the devices placed lower. I don't even want to throw in the average mobile phones in here.
My ideas are mostly very easy to implement / improve. For example, lets take a look at the Touch HD camera. They packed inside a 5 megapixel camera that takes rather ****ty photos even in perfect conditions, and they left out a LED flashlight. Wouldn't you rather have a LED flash and 3 megapixel camera that takes decent photos? Not to mention that the flashlight can also be used as a torch light in everyday situations.
Battery life on Touch HD is actually best out of all 2008. touch screen devices. Believe it or not, but you'll actually squeeze 30 minutes more battery out of Touch HD then out of famous iPhone, and the rest of the touchscreen gang isn't even close! I would gladly give up 10-15% battery life for an illuminated hardware keys and a flashlight and pay equally bigger end price.
Rozenthal said:
My ideas are mostly very easy to implement / improve. For example, lets take a look at the Touch HD camera. They packed inside a 5 megapixel camera that takes rather ****ty photos even in perfect conditions, and they left out a LED flashlight. Wouldn't you rather have a LED flash and 3 megapixel camera that takes decent photos? Not to mention that the flashlight can also be used as a torch light in everyday situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you there mate, though I don't think a compromise on camera i.e. 3 MP with flashlight is the way forward. Look at Samsung for instance. They are able to provide 8MP cameras with autofocus and flashlight. Why can't HTC follow suit? Instead they keep throwing out 3.2MP with flashlight. I heard there next release is still only 5MP. Why not try and leap infront of their competitors? Its this kind of thing which irritates me
Fallen Spartan said:
Agree with you there mate, though I don't think a compromise on camera i.e. 3 MP with flashlight is the way forward. Look at Samsung for instance. They are able to provide 8MP cameras with autofocus and flashlight. Why can't HTC follow suit? Instead they keep throwing out 3.2MP with flashlight. I heard there next release is still only 5MP. Why not try and leap infront of their competitors? Its this kind of thing which irritates me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, well, the reason for Samsung offering some pretty damn good phone cameras is simple: they already have a strong photo / video department within their company. Heck, they even have an SLR photo cameras, not to mention quite decent compact cameras.
So, with that technology already being developed and implemented within the house, it's much more simpler for them to throw out devices with 8 megapixel cameras and autofocus and xeon flashlight.
HTC is (s)lacking in this area.
Rozenthal said:
Ah, well, the reason for Samsung offering some pretty damn good phone cameras is simple: they already have a strong photo / video department within their company. Heck, they even have an SLR photo cameras, not to mention quite decent compact cameras.
So, with that technology already being developed and implemented within the house, it's much more simpler for them to throw out devices with 8 megapixel cameras and autofocus and xeon flashlight.
HTC is (s)lacking in this area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes to some extent, but I think thats to easy an excuse personally. The technology is out there and easily copied between manufactuers and competitors. All you would need to do is go out and buy some camera, take it apart and learn how it worked. How long have cameras been around, and HTC is japanese. Aren't they supposed to be the best at compact electronics??
2 Years ago when I got my Prophet I thought about the same topic.
At that time I wanted a bigger screen with a higher resolution, a 3,5mm audio jack and a faster processor. When the HD came I thought it would be the perfect device for me but now I want other things.
The most annoying thing of the HD is the lack of Hardware keys and D-PAD.
I used them all the time with my Prophet and many programs need them or are much more usable with D-PAD and real hardware buttons. I've always asked myself why HTC gave the HD only 2 Hardware Keys. It may have the touch keys but they aren't usable when the screen is off and you press them sometimes by mistake and they aren't really usable at night.
They could just take a look at some old devices and see what they did better with them. For example the reset key. On my Prophet it was easy accessible without the need to remove the cover. The same with the SD card.
One good thing is that you can change the SIM while the device is running. It isn't easy because there is a pin that should prevent it but with some force you can take out the SIM without taking out the battery. So why can't they make the SIM easy changeable if possible even without the need of removing the cover.
The camera is bad but I haven't seen a really good camera from HTC yet. The only thing it can better than most other camera phones is taking videos because it doesn't use 3gp but that is everything good there is to the camera of the HD. And they could make the camera much better only by putting in a flash because without much light the camera of the HD isn't usable.
Fallen Spartan said:
HTC is japanese. Aren't they supposed to be the best at compact electronics??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC aren't Japanese as far as I'm aware. They're Taiwanese, and generally they're best @ mass producing stuff and not exactly classy innovation (just look at ASUS, Gigabyte and all the other Taiwanese PC co's....).
Anyways, my wishlist for a "perfect" device with (hopefully!) near-future avaliability (some of these may have been mentioned already):
Hardware:
1. MultiTouch. Apparently with some new software even resistive screens can be as nice as responsive as capacitive ones.
2. 3.7" WVGA screen. Yeah I know smaller than the current 3.8" on the HD, but a slightly smaller screen = better handling when only using one hand, v. important for a mobile device imho. And @ that size, it's still possible to read (just) webpages without zooming in massive amounts (unlike the X1 / Diamond2)
3. Dual-LED Flash (at least!) w/ Auto-Flash. If SE can get Auto-Flash working on the X1, so can HTC!
4. SonyEriccson W950-style backlit buttons instead of the capacitive ones they have right now. It's annoying since I sometimes accidentally press those without meaning to.
5. Lanyard hook / hole. WTH they didn't include it before, I dunno.
6. (Optional) Slide-out landscape keyboard w/ dpad (kinda like the N97, but no silly angled slide)... always nice to have a proper keyboard when typing long emails
7. 1Ghz Snapdragon or some other sort of beefy processor so we can enjoy games and other stuff @ WVGA res without slowing down!
8. At least 512mb RAM. I want to be able to do TRUE multitasking and not have to shutdown apps just because Opera is starting up. And I wanna stop getting those annoying "out of memory errors" from NFS:U!
Software:
1. More stable OS. I don't wanna have to soft-reset the device every couple of days! If my previous Symbian-based UIQ3 SE W960 could work for weeks on end without having to reset it, WinMo should be able to do the same.
+ What Rozenthal said
So many people share the thoughts on the obvious defects in HD.
Was wondering whether I should return it. But which one else could be the good substituion?
In another word, HD is the perfect device til now?
henrik.dk said:
So many people share the thoughts on the obvious defects in HD.
Was wondering whether I should return it. But which one else could be the good substituion?
In another word, HD is the perfect device til now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're going for Windows Mobile, I don't think you'll find a better device available at this moment. I would not go as far to say that it's "perfect" - as any high-tech device, it has it's downsides and annoying moments, but it is the best you can get.
Also, biggest change for me since getting my Touch HD was flashing a custom made ROM. That felt pretty much like getting a new device.
Of course not, but as far as design maybe ....
I have been looking for a phone to upgrade from my iPhone 5 for sometime.
I missed the screen size and resolution of my old Galaxy Siii and although the iPhone is very nice there are a number of frustrations. For example having to go home button-next screen-settings-WiFi-off/on just to toggle WiFi is ridiculous, or to not have any browser choices with flash, etc. etc.*
Studying the market it seems it's between the One and the S4. The Sony Z has a few unique features but is not attractive. Other phones like the Motorola HD are nice but not really comparable on features. Once you have seen a 1920 screen you can't really go back.
On paper the S4 has a slight advantage although I applaud HTC for trying to end the pointless pixel war. As a amateur photographer I can say that all mobile phone cameras are [email protected] so why have bigger files which just waste space ?*
However once the phones are in your hand it's another story. The One is just beautiful. It it a phone you really want to just pickup.
I went to buy a S4 and came out with a One, for pretty much the same price.
The S4 is not only plastic fantastic but the design is still stuck in the iPhone 3 groove which Samsung originally copied.
The S4 is a great phone, but for me the One is almost perfect. The screen size and weight, the design, the georgeous screen, the software, the speed.
Sure, nothing is perfect, the One get a bit warm in use, it would be nice to have a SD card slot, a polishing cloth would be nice in the box etc. but this really feels like sniping.
It's difficult to know where phones go from here. Apart from 1tb of flash storage and a 5000mah battery I can't think of anything. I don't need more size, resolution or speed really. I suppose a display port or HDMI would be good with a keyboard and mouse in the box to use as a computer, I mean this is more powerful then most peoples PCs and Macs right ?
I take my hat off to HTC and wish them speedy restoration of their former glory!
Just a correction... It's not as powerful to the current PCs & Macs.
It might be quad core and has almost the same ghz that CPU processors but truth is it's too tiny to be of match to computers. Perhaps the performance of quad cores here is comparable to dual cores of computers right now or might even be single cores. And much more less on the GPU side.
colonel said:
Apart from 1tb of flash storage and a 5000mah battery I can't think of anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said the same about upgrading from my HD2 about 3 years ago. There wasn't anything sufficiently BOOM for me to upgrade.
I had WM6.5 and 'Droid on the SD (while Android was still effectively in beta) and the new phones back then were a bit gimmicky compared.
Can't find the post but I said I wouldn't upgrade until 2GHz/2GB RAM/Quad Core/1080p and I didn't.
So, back to your question? Where next?
1TB storage? Nah. 64/128GB will be the new 16/32 more like. With micro SD.
5 working day battery - it'll be about real world longevity rather than tech specs, which will lead to a big row as people don't get 5 days gaming
Where next? Frikkin' lasers! What else can be packed in?
Riyal said:
Just a correction... It's not as powerful to the current PCs & Macs.
It might be quad core and has almost the same ghz that CPU processors but truth is it's too tiny to be of match to computers. Perhaps the performance of quad cores here is comparable to dual cores of computers right now or might even be single cores. And much more less on the GPU side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes and no
most folk have PCs with an Intel 3000 or less for graphics.
you are right about size, which is why a display port and keyboard/mouse would be great
compact_bijou said:
Where next? Frikkin' lasers! What else can be packed in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats the thing
I always say I don't need more and then someone comes up with something I never thought of and I can't live without LOL
4K Screens, PS3 graphics and flexible screens. Unfortunately, not many companies focus on the battery life which is the sad reality.
mahay_love said:
4K Screens, PS3 graphics and flexible screens. Unfortunately, not many companies focus on the battery life which is the sad reality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery tech is the NBT. Has to be.
Otherwise, if they add anything else in to devices, we'll have to be no more than 12 feet from a plug.
I sincerely hope the race for bigger marketing numbers ends at 1080p displays: 1080p is already absolutely 100% pointless on a phone-sized screen. However, in other ways, screen performance has a long way to go: I want something that goes brighter than my HTC One (which still has legility issues in bright sunlight), has less reflection from the screen, has more resistance to damage and scratches, and combines an OLED-like black level with properly calibrated colour accuracy and white point, and no screen-burn. (And a way to calibrate the screen that doesn't require a custom kernel).
More performance is never a bad thing.
2GB of RAM is nowhere near enough, especially with 0.5GB being dedicated video memory. I'm looking forward to 4GB devices.
Mobile GPUs have quite a way to go, too, especially in terms of memory bandwidth: I'd like to see manufacturers experimenting with EDRAM.
Camera sensors could also be massively much better than the sensor on the One (although whether the market would accept that is another story: you'd probably have to make the phone significantly thicker). I'd like Xenon flashes to become more common, too.
Personally I'd like more onboard storage available at a lower price. Phones which have 16, 32 and 64GB models charge a ludicrous premium for the larger capacities.
The lack of USB 3.0 is a problem using OTG storage.
Headphone output, while quite respectable on phones like the One, could still be a lot better.
Probably the single biggest thing that needs improving is battery life. I'm lucky if I get four hours of real-life use out of my One if I'm browsing the web over 3G. Really you need at least twice that.
Dissipating heat will, I think, increasingly become a problem in the future. I can't see a smartphone ever incorporating an audible cooling fan.
HDMI output still has a few issues.
And finally the whole thing needs to become more rugged. Sony's Xperia Z is decidedly undesirable in many other ways, but the water-proof and dust-proof features are great (or at least they would be if they didn't require a compromise in terms of speaker quality).
Shasarak said:
More performance is never a bad thing.
2GB of RAM is nowhere near enough, especially with 0.5GB being dedicated video memory. I'm looking forward to 4GB devices.
Mobile GPUs have quite a way to go, too, especially in terms of memory bandwidth: I'd like to see manufacturers experimenting with EDRAM.
Camera sensors could also be massively much better than the sensor on the One (although whether the market would accept that is another story: you'd probably have to make the phone significantly thicker). I'd like Xenon flashes to become more common, too.
Personally I'd like more onboard storage available at a lower price. Phones which have 16, 32 and 64GB models charge a ludicrous premium for the larger capacities.
The lack of USB 3.0 is a problem using OTG storage.
Headphone output, while quite respectable on phones like the One, could still be a lot better.
Probably the single biggest thing that needs improving is battery life. I'm lucky if I get four hours of real-life use out of my One if I'm browsing the web over 3G. Really you need at least twice that.
HDMI output still has a few issues.
And finally the whole thing needs to become more rugged. Sony's Xperia Z is decidedly undesirable in many other ways, but the water-proof and dust-proof features are great (or at least they would be if they didn't require a compromise in terms of speaker quality).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, thats pretty much the whole 9 yards
battery life is the main thing for me and it seems most other people
I am sceptical of camera. physics demands a bigger sensor and it ain't going to happen in the form factor.
most people don't need better quality, judging from alot of DSLR shots I see
a display projector, or holographic display would be nice. then I can show people photographs when I am visiting wihout any other equipment
I'm still waiting for a phone that turns into a plane and flies me to my own desert island id be really happy with that
jiggle_ said:
I'm still waiting for a phone that turns into a plane and flies me to my own desert island id be really happy with that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is a real danger they get the spec of the island wrong you could get dumped here:
http://www.theworld.org/2012/11/the-history-of-hashima-the-island-in-bond-film-skyfall/
colonel said:
a display projector, or holographic display would be nice. then I can show people photographs when I am visiting wihout any other equipment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a little doubtful about putting a projector into a device that's hand-held and uses a touch-screen interface: the picture will wobble around like crazy every time you tap a button.
---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------
There's one very important development that's needed on the software side, incidentally: at the moment mobile web-browsers still don't do a sufficiently good job of parsing desktop-oriented websites. There are a number of issues involved, but one of the more significant ones is that there's no accepted way to emulate moving the mouse cursor to a specific position without actually clicking on something. This means websites that depend on mouse-over events - things like menus that pop up when you move the cursor over a link - never work correctly.
One of the things I had hoped Samsung might do with the GS4 (but, as far as I know, didn't) is use their "air gesture" technology to achieve this: hold your finger close to the screen to move the cursor, and actually touch it to click. A device like the S-Pen could achieve the same thing if it's pressure sensitive: move while pressing lightly to move the cursor, press harder to click. There have been other attempts at this in the past: the original Blackberry Storm, for example, had a touch-screen that was effectively one large physical button, so it could tell whether you were gently tracing your finger over the screen or actually pressing. But I've yet to see a way of doing this that works nicely.
Shasarak said:
I'm a little doubtful about putting a projector into a device that's hand-held and uses a touch-screen interface: the picture will wobble around like crazy every time you tap a button.
There's one very important development that's needed on the software side, incidentally: at the moment mobile web-browsers still don't do a sufficiently good job of parsing desktop-oriented websites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually that reminds me of another aweful thing about the iphone.
when you are editing online forms, e.g. an ebay advert, the iphone just goes mad.
firstly spelling suggestions go out of the window. it starts making odd suggestions about words you have never heard of.
secondly it does weird additions. so you are typing and it suddenly replaces the last three words with something totally out of context.
apple have improved this. It used to be impossible to even use on web forms, but it stil needs alot more work.
chrome and webkit (and IE on Windows Phone for that matter) are vastly superior in this aspect.
I have been somewhat following the whole Phonebloks and ARA scene, participating in the Dscout missions, and generally have to say that there is a lot of buzz and hype with very little meat behind it. The general populace is thinking legos, colors, fancy shmancy materials, and other appearance related nonsense. There seems to be very little technical content, and the majority of the crowd seems to be lured by key words such as "eco", "reusable", "repairable", "customizable" and so on.
Certainly, in terms of driving sales, this is good attention, something Motorola needs.
The downside, however, seems to be that people do not understand how things work, have no patience for it, and want things to "just work."
I highly doubt that this will be something that is user friendly out of the box.
The biggest misconception seems to be that you will be able to build anything you want out of this. If this idea is not curbed, this project will fail. People will become disappointed. Already they seem to think that they can have an espresso maker and a telescope added to the thing.
On top of it all, Motorola has a track record of taking good ideas and executing them poorly. Think Atrix lapdock.
So what is the clear mission of this project?
Ease of repair? That can already be done using current production methods. Look at the iPhone vs Galaxy series in terms of screen replacement. Its night and day.
Reusing parts? What could you reuse from an iPhone 4 when building a 5s? The headphone jack? Batteries die, radios, memory, sensors, processors, become old news by the time they hit the assembly line, and screens evolve at a fast pace.
There is no mention of a core device with expansion bays, the project seems to suggest you could swap all basic components on the fly. This is nonsense. Is it really worth taking steps back to make separate little bricks for Bluetooth, Wifi, NFC, GSM radio, etc., when current production methods can squeeze these into a single system-on-chip design at a fraction of the cost?
Imagine for a minute if Googorola took the Moto X approach to hardware: You log into your Motomaker account, and at checkout you pick your options. 3 choices of screen size, 3 choices of processors, 3 choices of storage capacity, an 8, 13, or 16 Mpix camera, 3 different battery capacities, cdma, gsm, or global radio, etc., then once you select your hardware, you customize the case colors, and you're done.
I know this rant is way into the TL;DR territory, but there are other factors to consider, perhaps profitability being paramount. Open source phone, with open source modules, etc. How will Motorola make $ on this? How long till knock off modules hit the market? What is the pricing scheme, etc.
I would love to get a serious discussion going, touching on some of the things I brought up.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
I wouldn't say they're doomed from the start but their social network app and stuff seems pretty gimmicky to me. I definitely think that modular phones are in the future but they need to spend more time talking about the actual hardware and open sourcing drivers and stuff instead of their weird Instagram clone in my opinion. I'm still staying optimistic if they don't do it someone else will.
Sent using Tapatalk
Nice idea, but people here at xda would have a nightmare with such a thing, meaning rom development for every and each component combination.......
Lets ask ourselves, when would it be appropriate or papamount to upgrade a hardware component of any of our phones now? The reasoning now is more like, 'it would be cool if we could'. I cant think of any necessary reason now for needing to change harware unless it needs repair. I believe necessity should be a starting point for this whole concept. Necessity often drives truly good design.
I personally think that this would be good because of the fact that technology advances at such a rapid pace that being able to upgrade your components when a better version comes out would be good. Obviously there would be some compatibility issues between some parts that would be unavoidable. It would be more for the person who wants the high end device. Take me for example, I have the S4 and I love it but next year when the S5 comes out it wouldn't be the latest and greatest and I can't upgrade for two years. I could love a Moto X but I don't wanna pay the off contract price for it. So I think this is the only time it would be good and efficient, not a huge game changer but a slight game changer.
Also about the knock off or cheap parts, if they have the drivers and protocols open source than it shouldn't be to big of an issue, not anymore than buying a knock off replacement screen. Still something to look out for when buying modules.
I think that the idea from Phoneblocks or Ara are really good but I think that the project will prospere
Project Ara.
Being a modular design, brings complications, but with those complications comes new opportunities in the hardware section as well as the software side of the development.
The metric is quite valid and tangible, even more so today, wth the manufacturing techniques available, this idea actually makes far more sense than feeding the giant a steady diet of the same old thing.
You save money if all you require is a modified version of the RF section, you install that block.
The same goes for the remainder of the phone, easy upgrading, no downtime, and lower overall cost for the entire market, not to mention the lowering of landfill garbage from dumped devices that could not be upgraded.
The engineering end of this is wonderful, I wish it arrived years ago. A 'Lego-Phone' you build and upgrade as you need to, no more buying an aircraft carrier, when all you require is a shuttle.
We can finally drive the market, provide for ourselves, push manufacturers in the direction we need them to head, instead of driving us with their own thoughts on what is necessary.
I don't use much in the way of media, so anything more than 720P is of little use, but I do appreciate an HDMI-type format screen.
The RF section is far more important to my needs, and of course, a micro-SD card slot.
I prefer a sensitive front end, high dynamic range, and a superbly augmented IP3(third intercept point) as a basis for my receiver design.
I have grown tired of matchbox quality RF systems, and when in poor signal areas, or in a heavily wooded area with sparse cell tower penetration, i prefer my phone have the ability to connect with a site even if the RSSI indicates no signal, at least a data channel should be able to 'hear' a short text message for help if sent.
If the phone can't hear well, it can't talk well, either.
Most subscribers assume that cell signals are routed through the power lines*!*
I have had customers that actually said this...But this is the basis of my most desired and important 'want', a solid RF system, receiver and transmitter section that works!
High density areas have few problems with dropped calls, if the site loading is low, but in rural areas, loading is not an issue, it's accessibility, and sites spaced 10 miles apart, can actually have users drop calls even near by, due to dense foliage or hilly/mountainous terrain, even though the tower is within eyesight, you still drop a call. This is where fresnel zones come into play, and where a good RF section makes the difference.
If you think rain kills RF signals, see my pic I just snapped from my door, of the trees filled with heavy snow!
Poorly designed RF systems can't decode signals properly, the B.E.R suffers, causing message failures, call time-outs as well as just lousy QOS due to noise, echoing, raspy speech processing and a host of other problems.
The memory subsystems are important, as well as the GPU and video systems, but you can still make a call if the video drops, not so much if the RF section dies.
We all have our own desires, as well as what is most important to our needs, but overall, i do believe that project Ara is a great step in the right direction for a change....Where the customer drive the market, not the manufacturers!
Now I don't know if you were aware, but Google only owns Motorola's Research Lab. The actual company was purchased by Lenovo a few weeks ago.
Besides, I sort feel the same way, because, besides the hubbub, it doesn't seem like a very user friendly process in my mind. That's why I think it feels like nothing more than a research project with a couple of news reporters locked inside their facilities.
Sent from my ST21i using XDA app-developers app.
Don't forget to hit thanks if I helped!
In the beginning, they will have to offer options in a controlled environment like one poster abive said. It will be similar to
1. CHOOSE YOUR PROCESSOR:
a. Good
b. Better
c. Best
Etc etc....
The first question probably will be "Choose Your Carrier". Then all of the module choices will be pre-screened to function together on that network.
Samsung Galaxy S4 "Fort Knox Edition"
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
Sent from my LG-P880 using xda app-developers app
PenguinStyle said:
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
Sent from my LG-P880 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just making sure it wasnt a misinterpretation but google did not create android, Android Inc founded by andy rubin(correct me if im wrong) http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...e-phones/a-complete-history-of-android-470327
PenguinStyle said:
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
Sent from my LG-P880 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All those things you mention are software, that runs on high performance computers. What ARA requires is a total rethinking of the hardware and engineering of today's mobile phones.
Can any module be swapped for some other type of module? How do they interface? What bandwidth limitations do these interfaces introduce?
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
SynGates said:
All those things you mention are software, that runs on high performance computers. What ARA requires is a total rethinking of the hardware and engineering of today's mobile phones.
Can any module be swapped for some other type of module? How do they interface? What bandwidth limitations do these interfaces introduce?
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ARA developers conference already answered most of this, so its possibility is not the question. Its availability and adaptability is the question. Will people flock to it or despise it?? Will it make people feel more in control?
If google can advertise this thing as something that gives people more power it will definitely catch on. Plus if Google is truly looking to start their own mobile network as rumoured, then they could start in that manner and make others envious to catch on.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
It's going to be a wait and see what happens on release thing I think. I don't personally don't think it's going to explode instantly onto the mobile scene but give it a year or two and hopefully it will start changing the game. With everything being open source it might pave the way for smaller companies to get into the handheld scene where they don't have the money or resources to develop full devices but can focus on just a single module. Much like the way of the custom pc market.
replicamask said:
It's going to be a wait and see what happens on release thing I think. I don't personally don't think it's going to explode instantly onto the mobile scene but give it a year or two and hopefully it will start changing the game. With everything being open source it might pave the way for smaller companies to get into the handheld scene where they don't have the money or resources to develop full devices but can focus on just a single module. Much like the way of the custom pc market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My sentiments exactly.
Koreans will really fight against this project. They won't be willing to loose the cellular market to Google. ARA has a lot of potential in developing countries, provided the prices for modules will be adequate. But yes, even with adequate pricetag such innovation will require a drastic change in marketing-infected minds of people.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
I hope it could work really well. I'd like to see the ability to transfer all the core modules from one endo 'frame' to another - SIM, WiFi, ROM, storage plus camera and perhaps CPU/RAM from a larger 'everyday' frame to a smaller 'night out' frame. I'd like an 'everyday' camera and a 'holiday' camera. I might carry a speaker module, but would swap it in against a torch module only for those occasions I'd need it. I'd carry spare battery modules and expect to see external chargers for them.
Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd say the whole "eco friendly" concept is BS from the beginning. People will start buying new components everytime they are out, thus generating MORE electric waste.
till22 said:
Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd say the whole "eco friendly" concept is BS from the beginning. People will start buying new components everytime they are out, thus generating MORE electric waste.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is possible and a good point. I think they could counter this by placing some inherent value on modules so you could trade them in for cash or credit towards other modules.
I think this will work much better than trading in phones since all modules should work for all ara phones.
What you all need to remember is that the microcomputer revolution didn't really become a mass market phenomenon until the IBM PC arrived with its open "Industry Standard Architecture". This allowed the rapid emergence of third party expansion cards and other "PC compatible" hardware, and "PC clones". Not only did this accelerate the pace of technology development it also pushed prices down significantly. If IBM had not made the PC architecture both expandable and open, general purpose computing would have remained an expensive and specialised tool available only to business and the very rich. Imagine the effect that wouls have had on the development of the worldwide web a decade later.
If you are of the generation who grew up uaing laptops you may not have realised that modular technology is cheaper and more flexible, and it means longer hardware lifecycles.
Hi fellow XDA members. I am writing this hoping someone from Sony will read it.
Dear Sony. We love the phone. The z3 rocks but the fact we can't root due to losing DRM keys really blows chunks.
Please Sony give us either a way to root without unlocking boot loader and losing DRM keys or a way to backup and restore them after we have rooted the phone. Development then would speed up and make a great phone even better.
Thanks for reading. Guys please add your support to this in the hopes someone from there reads it.
>>>and please allow root for your Verizon variant as well! Much appreciated.
Sent from my D6708
Man...an Android without root and custom ROMs renders an Android phone to a dull brick. I have done it with all my phones so far and that is what makes Android great.
Z3 is the first one where dev support is missing and I'm considering buying another to get my flash fix satisfied.
I'm about to go cold turkey soon fellars..
Without root we cannot backup TA this is the biggest problem for me. Yesterday i have bought Z3 and this phone rocks but it is very sad witout root :/ we have to wait i think.
I regret my decision of going with Z3. Phone is great but rooting means loosing functionality while unlocking bootloader is NO GO. I seems difficult to wait for rooting without unlocking bootloader hence selling it off.
This is y I want Sony to take notice. They know we do it hence the boot loader unlock tool so y not help those of us inclined to.
Just to join... I COULD have this phon. I looked on it and it seems interesting after some years with Samsunge. However, reading the feedback related with bootloader, I decided to stick with my samsung S4, while Z3 offer is waiting.
Assuming my level of patience and knowing myself I'd say that having Z3 option (for me) would be open for next month. after that I will have a new phone. It may be HTC, LG, Nexus, Samsung... whatever will give me option to safely root it.
But - let's be honest. It is a Sony's choice: or they would unlock the functions, or the people will choose another brand, which would give them possibilities. What is surprising for me: any manufacturer would presumably like to increase their sales rate. It seems that Sony wants to reduce it.
A bit strange, however if they want to become a negligible part of the market, it is their free will. I can only support their decision closing my option for Z3 soon.
I fully agree. We need it.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
You dont need the drm keys.
Even without them it's better than Nexus phones
But the point is I want to be able to use the camera to its full advantage
OP has a very valid point. I never thought I'd hear myself say this but I am hoping for a FW update, for DRM retention AND camera improvements... more than an update to Android L!
Adding my support.
Love this phone, much better than my Samsung Galaxy S3, even rooted!
I know that if the DRM keys are gone, so are some camera features... do we know EXACTLY what camera features would be gone though?
johnathanamber said:
Adding my support.
Love this phone, much better than my Samsung Galaxy S3, even rooted!
I know that if the DRM keys are gone, so are some camera features... do we know EXACTLY what camera features would be gone though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I understand its the camera algorithms that Mae it such high quality that u lose. It reduces the low light clarity of the camera. I know there is more like xreality and bravia engine also but not sure what else
sswagonman said:
From what I understand its the camera algorithms that Mae it such high quality that u lose. It reduces the low light clarity of the camera. I know there is more like xreality and bravia engine also but not sure what else
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you loose overall camera functionality except the basics... that sucks. I could live without some advanced features, but the clarity and definition... not rooting yet.
johnathanamber said:
So, you loose overall camera functionality except the basics... that sucks. I could live without some advanced features, but the clarity and definition... not rooting yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About losing camera capabilities... found this:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/10/rooting-your-xperia-z3-will-ruin-the-cameras-low-light-abilities/
Here's an example of the quality difference:
http://phandroid.com/2014/10/02/sony-warns-unlocking-xperia-z3-bootloader-will-kill-performance/
johnathanamber said:
About losing camera capabilities... found this:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/10/rooting-your-xperia-z3-will-ruin-the-cameras-low-light-abilities/
Here's an example of the quality difference:
http://phandroid.com/2014/10/02/sony-warns-unlocking-xperia-z3-bootloader-will-kill-performance/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be more interesting to see someone with 1) technical knowledge about exactly what functionality is lost upon rooting and 2) the ability to take sensible photographs to demonstrate their loss. That single picture, with no info whatsoever about it (exposure, mode, etc etc), is utterly worthless.
Also, it'll be interesting to see if there's any difference between locked and unlocked RAW photos when Lollipop comes out. There should be no difference at all, at which point the only important thing (for me, at least, as a developer who wants root AND someone who only takes RAW photos when using a DSLR) is which tool to use to post-process RAW files. I have no idea what variant of RAW Android is going to use (it's not a standard, so they have free reign to do whatever they like - in fact, they have a good opportunity to forge a new RAW standard other manufacturers might end up supporting).
poldie said:
It would be more interesting to see someone with 1) technical knowledge about exactly what functionality is lost upon rooting and 2) the ability to take sensible photographs to demonstrate their loss. That single picture, with no info whatsoever about it (exposure, mode, etc etc), is utterly worthless.
Also, it'll be interesting to see if there's any difference between locked and unlocked RAW photos when Lollipop comes out. There should be no difference at all, at which point the only important thing (for me, at least, as a developer who wants root AND someone who only takes RAW photos when using a DSLR) is which tool to use to post-process RAW files. I have no idea what variant of RAW Android is going to use (it's not a standard, so they have free reign to do whatever they like - in fact, they have a good opportunity to forge a new RAW standard other manufacturers might end up supporting).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, the lack of proper information doesn't help the case. I just thought it was interesting to see what the average person would be in those scenarios. Most won't use outside what is automatic and simple to use.
johnathanamber said:
Agreed, the lack of proper information doesn't help the case. I just thought it was interesting to see what the average person would be in those scenarios. Most won't use outside what is automatic and simple to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure. But most people won't root their phones. And, for that section of the venn diagram which consists of people who do want to root their phone and don't want to manually deal with RAW conversion and post-processing to work around the quality hit losing DRM keys will cause, i'm sure there'll be an android app available which will compensate, once the nature of the loss (which I'm trying to understand) is known. For example, Sony might have nice algorithms to simulate a longer exposure time without adding the noise you'd normally introduce.
Huge thanks to @poldie and @johnathanamber for the knowledge provided above. To most of us we don't understand the intricate details of this technology so the insight in fantastic. And raising more awareness about this issue so thank you.
deleted
This might help people eyeing the Z4 Tablet, but are unsure of what positives and negatives there are. Of course, this is highly subjective, but this is my list. It's influenced by my personal competing choices which were the Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 and the Google Pixel C. I'm happy I chose the Sony Xperia Z4 Tablet.
Pros:
Fast SoC (Qualcomm Snapdragon 810)
This is Qualcomm's 2015 flagship SoC and from what I've experienced it's really fast. Android flies. It also runs 64-bit, which it should anyway, but for example Samsung's Tab S2 doesn't. I don't know about the graphical performance as I don't really play games.
'Compatible' SoC (Qualcomm Snapdragon 810)
This opens up the way for optimized-for-specific-SoC apps (like RSBrowser, which is Snapdragon-optimized and significantly faster than stock Chrome/Chromium) and CyanogenMod support, that need documentation/drivers. For example, Samsung's (faster) Exynos SoC's are a black box for developers, which makes things like this very hard and has the result of devs abandoning it.
Big internal storage (32GB)
32GB is plenty of storage for apps and a reasonable amount of media. But that can be stored on the microSD.
microSD capability (up to 128GB)
This is a major benefit for a media consumption device like this, which many devices don't have.
Good multitasking
I could have mentioned 3GB RAM, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Multitasking on the Z4 is pretty darn good. It swtiches quickly and is generally very snappy. My Samsung Galaxy S6 with 3GB RAM has pretty bad RAM management in comparison. I'm still trying to find a custom kernel for it that keeps the phone snappy after 2 days.
Huge screen solution, high ppi on a big screen
2560x1600, 299ppi. On a big 10.1 inch screen. This is wonderful.
16:10 aspect ratio screen
Which is good for widescreen content like movies and dSLR photo's. 16:10 also beats 16:9 for me because of the added screen height.
Screen has natural, accurate colors
Very subjective, but compared to several other screens I've found this one to be superior.
Front facing stereo speakers
A rare thing among Android devices. Good design choice.
Lightweight (~390gr), thin
It's pleasantly light to hold.
NFC, notification LED, GPS, vibration motor
These features are often overlooked, but are important to me. I use NFC for LastPass, the (multicolor!) LED with LightFlow to see what exactly is asking my attention when in standby, vibration to still be notified when I want the tablet to be silent and GPS for the occasional navigation need or social app check-in.
Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0
Another nice bonus, which isn't mentioned much. Quick Charge makes a major difference to charging speed. Needs a compatible charger though.
Big battery (6000mAh)
Can't yet say battery life is amazing, because I'm using it a lot and crank the screen brightness up quite high so don't know what to expect. Reviewers seem to agree it's great though.
Bootloader can be unlocked (so the road is open for rooting)
No waiting for an exploit if you're OK with going this route. Just follow Sony's instructions and you'll have root in no time.
Marshmallow announced
Should come January '16 I heard, but these things always get delayed :| At least it's coming.
AOSP commitment by Sony
Sony's Open Device Program is nice and all, but their sources are a bit troublesome and don't seem to produce functional ROMs. Still, Sony's stance on it might bode well for future things.
Water-/dustproof
I don't care much myself, but it's a nice bonus. At least it takes some worries away (dropping liquids on it, no fear for dust particles between the screen and the glass).
Keyboard dock option
Nice for when you want to use a physical keyboard that is fully compatible and is also attachable. I use a 3rd party BT keyboard, but I'm constantly fighting with fixing incompatible button mapping stuff.
Important root-specific things that work
These things are not guaranteed to work or be available on any rooted device, and are pretty major in adding possibilities, so I consider them pros to be working on the Z4T:
Xposed Framework
For most people anyway (Some are having issues). This is a thing to be happy about, because if it didn't, chances are it wouldn't be fixed anytime soon because of the small user/dev base. Xposed opens up many possibilities which really enhance a device. To me it's a selling point.
Native KCAL support
Another Qualcomm exclusive. I believe this is actually fully present on the stock ROM, but not fully controllable (limited to RGB in the Settings menu). KCAL support enables you to tweak various image parameters, like RGB, saturation and contrast with a tool like Color Control or Kernel Adiutor. It's pretty great and you don't see it often.
Cons:
SoC might overheat in extreme circumstances
Haven't had any problems myself, and I stress the tablet pretty hard, but I've read some reports about issues. At least of a guy bringing the tablet to the beach. It's mostly just people saying it's fine, even with heavy usage.
Speakers are lacking in bass
No surprise, but it's still a letdown.
Bad low-light camera performance, no flash
Picture quality in low light is disturbingly bad. Having no flash makes this unusable in those situations. Not a big deal for me personally, I don't take pics with a tablet.
Screen isn't that bright
Compared to several others, the screen isn't that bright and needs to be cranked up pretty much, even indoors. Outdoors, this is a problem. The big screen reflectiveness doesn't help either. Indoors it fine, it just that the needed high brightness level eats battery.
Screen lacks deep blacks
This is compared to (S)AMOLED, specifically. Those screen blacks are amazing and darker colors are also good for battery on those screens. IPS screens just don't have that. Using dark themes won't help battery life on the Z4T, it may even be worse with them.
Stock charger isn't Quick Charge 2.0
Come on, Sony.
No hardware navigation buttons
This is a real PITA for me because this requires Android's soft keys / navigation bar which take up valuable screen space. This is especially problematic in landscape mode on this 16:10 ratio in which you'll want every screen height you can get. Fortunately, this can be overcome by tools like GMD Full Screen Immersive Mode (with full screen keyboard typing restrictions so you'll have to switch back to type :S) combined with All in One Gestures, both of which don't reqquire root. Better yet is a build.prop edit that declares to Android the tablet has hardware buttons, removing the soft keys entirely, while keeping the ability to type anywhere. I navigate using All in One Gestures, because GMD GestureControl sometimes stops working. Which isn't very nice when you don't have navigation keys
No user-land root exploit (yet)
Because of this, you'll need to unlock the bootloader to gain root access. Which will destroy your TA partition, which will in turn remove Sony-proprietary functions. Which I personally don't use and don't see much use for anyway. Also, unlocked bootloader can't be undone without Sony noticing, so as a non-EU citizen you'll possibly have warranty issues.
Small user/dev community
Not many people own a Z4 Tablet (bad availability in the US and it's expensive) and because of this, there's next to no development for it. Luckily, we have @AndroPlus who's made a custom kernel and ported TWRP (which unfortunately has a bug that keeps us from restoring the system partition from a backup). @DHGE worked on root, which made it possible in the end I think. Still, custom ROMs would be nice. Also, if you run into device-specific problems, there's not many others that can help, because you're either the only one or one of very few who have that problem.
It's expensive
The price is very high and a bit hard to justify.
What I miss:
Wireless charging
This is sooo convenient. It also spares the precious MicroUSB port, which is used for charging, data-transfer, USB-OTG and adb/fastboot. If it breaks, you're done.
Removable battery
Batteries do not have eternal life, so eventually it will be completely dead. Which will render the tablet dead as well.
Any thoughts, questions, additions or critique is welcome.
jelbo said:
[*]Small user/dev community
Not many people own a Z4 Tablet (bad availability in the US and it's expensive) and because of this, there's next to no development for it. Luckily, we have @AndroPlus who's made a custom kernel and ported TWRP (which unfortunately had a bug that keeps us from restoring the system partition from a backup). @DHGE worked on root, which made it possible in the end I think. Still, custom ROMs would be nice. Also, if you run into device-specific problems, there's not many others that can help, because you're either the only one or one of very few that have that problem.
.
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Hello jelbo. Let's discuss about it. First of all, our tablet is not alone with some sort of problem. z3+ and z5 devices are the same story. I don't really understand how can we have aosp sources but not to have its rom. So what the problem, some building problem, or is it true that aosp roms works without working sensors? People give different feedback. Did you try some aosp rom? I just want to cook aosp rom in ubuntu.
alex009988 said:
Hello jelbo. Let's discuss about it. First of all, our tablet is not alone with some sort of problem. z3+ and z5 devices are the same story.
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Click to collapse
Yes, they're similar. Which actually makes me think about a positive point as development for those devices can also benefit Z4T owners. For example @[NUT]'s efforts may eventually reach us, or when an Xperia user-land exploit is found, it will likely be shared among different devices.
I don't really understand how can we have aosp sources but not to have its rom. So what the problem, some building problem, or is it true that aosp roms works without working sensors? People give different feedback. Did you try some aosp rom? I just want to cook aosp rom in ubuntu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not too sure about the reasons, but what I've seen is that 1) the Sony sources are/have been a bit buggy/messy 2) not many people compile ROMs from it (I've only seen 2 XDA users and the FXP Team).
I haven't yet dared to flash any AOSP build because I've been too busy on getting stock rooted to my liking and troubleshooting my Xposed issues and I don't want to interrupt that. It seems to be quite easy to flash ROMs though, it's either a TWRP flashable .zip, Flashtool flashable .tft or fastboot flashable .bin files.
I'm also curious about the mixed reports about 'sensor stuff not working' and 'everything works fine' on Sony-sourced AOSP builds, but so far no-one has answered my or your questions about it. Seems we'll have too find out ourselves at some point Best leave that part of questions and discussion in their respective threads to keep things organized.
Nice summary, thanks for the effort; its clear and concise.
jelbo said:
it's either a TWRP flashable .zip,
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I think free xperia team jeer at us cause twrp has a serious bug and it can't flash any roms for the time being whereas we can see exactly .zips at their site.
Interesting, had they even tested themselves what they uploaded
jelbo said:
Yes, they're similar. Which actually makes me think about a positive point as development for those devices can also benefit Z4T owners. For example @[NUT]'s efforts may eventually reach us, or when an Xperia user-land exploit is found, it will likely be shared among different devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've put XZDualRecovery on 'feature freeze' for 2.8 well over a year ago, because it needs some work to keep it working on the ever changing Android eco-system. As a consequence, I also stopped adding devices to the supported devices list. For XZDR 2.9 things will change and I will start adding devices again, remember that I am just on my own, from time to time I have a helper but they generally drop out after a while and I'm on my own again after that... I have a busy real life and a very busy job, which consumes most of my energy, leaving only little amounts of it for use on the XZDR development unfortunately... and I have big plans with it which I'd rather deploy sooner then later.
As security features increase, so do the difficulties to keep XZDR working properly... For the Z3+/Z4/Z5/M4 Aqua it is dm-verity, which throws a tantrum once the system partition is modified, which in turn causes a reboot (and with that a bootloop). This behavior has hampered the Stock Based custom ROM development and made it generally impossible to root the device...
A backup-ta with a built-in root exploit (similar to the XZDR installer) to allow a backup of the TA partition would kick-start the development for these models. People don't mind unlocking their devices but do mind losing their warranty on a 500-700 euro device... so most of them wait for the possibility to backup their TA partition.
Oh, and to actually participate in this topic:
I have to say the Z4 tablet takes my fancy and tics just about all the boxes of things I like about tablets... I own a Xperia Tablet Z, well, the misses has it now and I can 'occasionally' touch it :silly: and I have been looking for a new tablet to actually use myself
I don't have the funds to purchase a TabZ4, but I would really like to have one with the keyboard dock
[NUT] said:
Oh, and to actually participate in this topic:
I have to say the Z4 tablet takes my fancy and tics just about all the boxes of things I like about tablets... I own a Xperia Tablet Z, well, the misses has it now and I can 'occasionally' touch it :silly: and I have been looking for a new tablet to actually use myself
I don't have the funds to purchase a TabZ4, but I would really like to have one with the keyboard dock
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Click to collapse
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
@jelbo, where in NL do you live? Did you root your TabZ4 yet?
---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------
alex009988 said:
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am assuming that custom ROM's will come as soon as there is a viable way to flash them
I wonder why @AndroPlus wasn't able to fix the TWRP mount issues yet...
alex009988 said:
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty confident CM will support the 'karin' at some point. Many other Sony phones/tablets are officially supported.
[NUT] said:
@jelbo, where in NL do you live? Did you root your TabZ4 yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll tell you in a PM Yeah, I've unlocked my bootloader and rooted it. I couldn't restrain myself anymore It's so much better now. Just some littles gripes left that'll be fixed sooner or later.
Well, I am assuming that custom ROM's will come as soon as there is a viable way to flash them
I wonder why @AndroPlus wasn't able to fix the TWRP mount issues yet...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time restraints, who knows? He did post a v11 version of the kernel some days ago though @dl12345 who greatly helped him getting TWRP to work, may be able to fix it, but he hasn't been around. You can follow some technical details about it in the AndroPlusKernel thread.
It's just /system/ that cannot be restored though. Which is bad, but you can get out of a bad situation pretty quickly with restoring /data/ and using Helium/Titanium Backup, I think. Unless you really fried the ROM and need your /system/ back, then you can only go the flashtool route now
jelbo said:
I'm pretty confident CM will support the 'karin' at some point. Many other Sony phones/tablets are officially supported.
I'll tell you in a PM Yeah, I've unlocked my bootloader and rooted it. I couldn't restrain myself anymore It's so much better now. Just some littles gripes left that'll be fixed sooner or later.
Time restraints, who knows? He did post a v11 version of the kernel some days ago though @dl12345 who greatly helped him getting TWRP to work, may be able to fix it, but he hasn't been around. You can follow some technical details about it in the AndroPlusKernel thread.
It's just /system/ that cannot be restored though. Which is bad, but you can get out of a bad situation pretty quickly with restoring /data/ and using Helium/Titanium Backup, I think. Unless you really fried the ROM and need your /system/ back, then you can only go the flashtool route now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
* [NUT] pokes @AndroPlus to join this conversation.
Due to lack of time on my side to read the entire topic, what exactly fails when restoring system?
@jelbo, do you have his kernel installed (a.k.a. have you unlocked your bootloader)?
[NUT] said:
* [NUT] pokes @AndroPlus to join this conversation.
Due to lack of time on my side to read the entire topic, what exactly fails when restoring system?
@jelbo, do you have his kernel installed (a.k.a. have you unlocked your bootloader)?
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Click to collapse
Yes and yes. Basically anyone here who's rooted their tablet is running AndoPlusKernel and have manually unlocked their bootloader.
jelbo said:
Yes and yes. Basically anyone here who's rooted their tablet is running AndoPlusKernel and have manually unlocked their bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see, that un-complicates testing a lot
Gotta say... amazing tablet all together and the first device that i havent seen the mighty snapdragon handwarmer throttle from heat in. I kept roasting it for about 3 hours with simpleplanes and PC minecraft (boardwalk app) and it didnt lose any performance just got a bit hot on the back middle. I find the battery life to be good enough for a day of being on and off watching youtube and occasional gaming but i do keep screen brightness on auto at all times and features such as BT NFC and GPS off. Also a app that i think the tablet should have from factory: OGYoutube, you can have floating resizeable youtube above other apps or play in background or with screen off and download in mp4 or mp3.
I'd picked up a Z4T about 4 months ago to replace two different devices, my aging and finally dead cell phone (I hung on to my old Samsung S3 for way too long), and my laptop, which is a still functional but extraordinarily heavy beast of a 17" macbook - about 6 years old on its own as well. What can I say, they were still working so why buy new?
I have to say I'm very glad I made the purchase. I picked up a SBH52 handset to make phone calls more convenient, and splurged on the sony docking kb for the added ruggedness of using it as a "case" - which it does like a champ. Calls are nice and clear, and I've had pretty much no troubles - aside from some occasional static when using the handset (which I owe to the handset itself being a bit flaky). Even with an unlocked BL, remote play on my PS4 still works, only the Bravia screen mirroring to my TV is kaput. It serves very well as a laptop for those like me that need something lightweight for overnight trips, let with a big enough screen to be able to remote desktop troubleshoot back to the main office.
Would this replace every computer I own? Obviously not. I still own a high end desktop for videos, games, and intense word processing (the sony kb is just a bit small if you were attempting to write a novel for example); and my PS4 for console games; but for light end use and for traveling, it's almost the perfect laptop replacement. And as a combo cellphone laptop? I couldn't ask for better. My overall data usage has also dropped, because I'm using far more wireless on this device (I want to make sure it's connected for the stability if nothing else), but I can always drop out to a cell connection if no wireless is available - or if I don't feel like paying the stupid prices at the hotel the convention is being held at.
Now for the Cons:
I've really only got two, one of which was mentioned here. The damn thing is not cheap. Since I live in the states, the LTE version is not available directly. You need to pick up an international version from amazon or another reputable source. Hence the reason I have a kb with extra non-english symbols on it. Not that I mind, but it confuses some people when they look at it. When I picked mine up, the tablet kb and handset ran about $900 US all together. so not something you want to accidentally brick, or drop, or leave behind in a restaurant....
The second one is convenience. Given that it is a tablet - and a fairly large one, most people aren't going to go the phone replacement route like I did. You can't exactly just slip it into your pants pocket. And since the handset is BT, you can't exactly leave the tablet in the car and just use the handset inside most restaurants either (unless you park really close to the building). I'll often leave mine at home if all I do is run to the store for a dozen eggs or something, just because it's easier not to pack it up. But then half an hour of being unconnected and out of touch doesn't bother me - it might bother some though.
So there you have it, a much less technical review, from yet another satisfied user.
begalund said:
I'd picked up a Z4T about 4 months ago to replace two different devices, my aging and finally dead cell phone (I hung on to my old Samsung S3 for way too long), and my laptop, which is a still functional but extraordinarily heavy beast of a 17" macbook - about 6 years old on its own as well. What can I say, they were still working so why buy new?
I have to say I'm very glad I made the purchase. I picked up a SBH52 handset to make phone calls more convenient, and splurged on the sony docking kb for the added ruggedness of using it as a "case" - which it does like a champ. Calls are nice and clear, and I've had pretty much no troubles - aside from some occasional static when using the handset (which I owe to the handset itself being a bit flaky). Even with an unlocked BL, remote play on my PS4 still works, only the Bravia screen mirroring to my TV is kaput. It serves very well as a laptop for those like me that need something lightweight for overnight trips, let with a big enough screen to be able to remote desktop troubleshoot back to the main office.
Would this replace every computer I own? Obviously not. I still own a high end desktop for videos, games, and intense word processing (the sony kb is just a bit small if you were attempting to write a novel for example); and my PS4 for console games; but for light end use and for traveling, it's almost the perfect laptop replacement. And as a combo cellphone laptop? I couldn't ask for better. My overall data usage has also dropped, because I'm using far more wireless on this device (I want to make sure it's connected for the stability if nothing else), but I can always drop out to a cell connection if no wireless is available - or if I don't feel like paying the stupid prices at the hotel the convention is being held at.
Now for the Cons:
I've really only got two, one of which was mentioned here. The damn thing is not cheap. Since I live in the states, the LTE version is not available directly. You need to pick up an international version from amazon or another reputable source. Hence the reason I have a kb with extra non-english symbols on it. Not that I mind, but it confuses some people when they look at it. When I picked mine up, the tablet kb and handset ran about $900 US all together. so not something you want to accidentally brick, or drop, or leave behind in a restaurant....
The second one is convenience. Given that it is a tablet - and a fairly large one, most people aren't going to go the phone replacement route like I did. You can't exactly just slip it into your pants pocket. And since the handset is BT, you can't exactly leave the tablet in the car and just use the handset inside most restaurants either (unless you park really close to the building). I'll often leave mine at home if all I do is run to the store for a dozen eggs or something, just because it's easier not to pack it up. But then half an hour of being unconnected and out of touch doesn't bother me - it might bother some though.
So there you have it, a much less technical review, from yet another satisfied user.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing
So I am coming to this device from the Nvidia Shield Tablet and I love the device thus far for all of the positive reasons mentioned. Also with respect to screen brightness listed as a con my own experience is that it is much better than what I was coming from.
The battery life is truly great with this device and my needs are small when it comes to the development area. I simply need it to be rooted because I prefer to remove all of googles garbage that I don't use and rooting and bootloader unlock was very simple.
All in all I am really liking this device, had it about 10 days now. I have the LTE version but only because I may use it at some point.
Overall very pleased with the device so far.
ThePhoneGeek said:
So I am coming to this device from the Nvidia Shield Tablet and I love the device thus far for all of the positive reasons mentioned. Also with respect to screen brightness listed as a con my own experience is that it is much better than what I was coming from.
The battery life is truly great with this device and my needs are small when it comes to the development area. I simply need it to be rooted because I prefer to remove all of googles garbage that I don't use and rooting and bootloader unlock was very simple.
All in all I am really liking this device, had it about 10 days now. I have the LTE version but only because I may use it at some point.
Overall very pleased with the device so far.
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Click to collapse
I was seriously considering the Shield because of the dev scene and the price. What made you switch?
jelbo said:
I was seriously considering the Shield because of the dev scene and the price. What made you switch?
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Click to collapse
The device itself just isn't very efficient on battery and I needed something with a slightly larger screen. It does ok but it's really designed more as a gaming device IMO which wasn't what I needed. Also the specs are a bit outdated now.
I noticed in the op that he said being a non eu customer when unlocking bootloader they will notice. Im an eu user, does this mean that they wont notice if I try claim warranty after bootloader unlock? I havent unlocked yet but I was getting slow WiFi and disconnections. I really want root but im not sure about this WiFi issue I set the WiFi to turn off at sleep and it seems better also the issues are caused less im concerned what would you guys do? ive sent it off to Sony once already they said nothing was wrong with wifi. Can someone help me decide? Much appreciated, many thanks.