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Touch HD vs Toshiba TG01

this is a proper contender for the touch hd. it uses the latest snapdragon processor. tell me what you think guys. is the hd better than this Toshiba TG01

The Toshiba TG01 is not even out yet, so how could anyone know? Only thing I could say about it is that the screen seems a little bit too big to carry it around in your pocket.

i tell you what, this year is WM6.5/WM7 device year, how could you buy a still-a-wm6.1 device 2009? after a half year, WM7 device will come out, so TG01 is just born in a wrong time.

Winmo 7 won't be out untill end of 2009 and will probably be avaible on devices well after to 2010. I don't even consider 6.5 a major make over either as I was not very impressed by it, most probably 6.5 going to be a free upgrade anyway, so why not. Only thing I don't like about the tg01 is that it is rather large, HD is just about manageable to me, but the tg01 adds another centimeter to it.

The Tosh looks like the bezel is a bit too substantial. Given that 4.1" is already a bit chunky, it's a bit too big for my liking.

arfster said:
The Tosh looks like the bezel is a bit too substantial. Given that 4.1" is already a bit chunky, it's a bit too big for my liking.
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Agree that it will be too big with a 4.1" screen, especially as there is a lot of "surround" above and below the screen. The pics that compare it with the Iphone (similar size to HD) makes it look huge.

I will wait and see.
But, I had a Toshiba G900 which was rubbish !! I forget all the problems but I remember the screen was very poor quality - impossible to read in bright interior lights (let alone day light !!) and the operating system was really badly unstable. I suspect they have fixed the OS by now.
Let's hope they bring out that big screen in a super clear and readable way !

the hd has hit the limit in size for me
that fone shares more with a tabletpc than a pdaphone, well size wise anyways

I've had nokia tablet n810 which has the screen size 4.13" which is almost the same as the new toshiba. I got a tell you, I can't image using it as a phone.
HD feels just right..

From a technical side, it looks really nice.
However, I think Toshiba just stepped out of the boundaries of what most people consider to be acceptable in terms of size. Yes, the phone is a bit thinner then HD, but so much bigger in all other directions. One of the key features of HD when it was discussed in media was that it had the same size as iPhone but much better feature set and much better screen.
I would always choose a thicker device with smaller pocket footprint then other way around. I hope the build quality will be able to hold pressure of everyday use.
On a side note, my first thought when reading the specifications was "what kind of battery will be able to cope with 1 gHz power-hungry processor".
Other obvious minuses are small-resolution camera, with no flash. Can't understand why they left it out on Touch HD, and now Toshiba lowers the resolution and leaves the flash out. Someone in Toshiba development should really start paying attention to what people want.

Don't get me wrong.... I love my HD but the TG01 looks hot to me. I'm not put off by the slightly bigger device because it is so thin and with my older eyes the 4.1" will make a difference. As far as the tech specs... the neat thing about the snapdragon is its ability to slow its clock down for better battery life automatically... so you get the 1Gz goodness when you want it without paying the "gas" bill on the battery when you don't. Don't forget the awesome graphics co-processor loaded on this bad boy as well... more powerful than a PSP and able to leap tall building in a single bound! (How did that slip in? - but I digress)... The best news for me is that it is a WIMO machine when means I get all the flexibilty of WIMO and all the warts (good for us software developers... gives us jobs )
It also looks like an interesting scroll bar control on the front... not quite a DPAD but better than what my HD has.

Hmmmm - wait and see, but looking at this baby in pocketpcthoughts and msmobile I think it exceed the comfortable size limits for me.
The new CPU sounds great but I'm concerned about the battery pack. Anyone seen specs on that - I think we need a pack double the capacity of the HD to make me confident of getting at least a day out of this Toshiba.
Now, an HD that is 3 mm thick - that sounds more like it !!

OK
Having now viewed the vid at http://www.engadget.com on this I'm fairly convinced it is just too big for a pocket/belt/shirt device.
The new interface looks like fun but I suspect it has the same flaws as TF3D - really very pretty but lacking in functions.
I'm waiting for "whitestone" ...

device looks awesome, am sure it will be snappier and will likely resolve the endless graphic rendering problems we have on our htc's.. but without a 3.5 mm jack this thing is useless as a multimedia device

For me even HD is little too big, which is why I still use my Diamond pretty often (I have multisim so same number on 2 SIM cards).
I believe it will be nice looking and powerfull but I see few faults:
1st. large 4.1" RESISTIVE screen == very weak
2nd. no 3.5mm audio output
3rd. Lower MP camera and no flash
4th. Cant be large capacity battery because of it is so thin. (Could be Li-Pol) but still it must be very thin.

TG01 ? oh no... I prefer th Touch HD for the moment...
TG01 has bad resolution camera (3.15 MP) and no video call capabilities !
tunppi said:
For me even HD is little too big, which is why I still use my Diamond pretty often (I have multisim so same number on 2 SIM cards).
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But for me my Diamond is little too small, which is why I still use my Touch HD pretty often

I agree the TG01 is too big.
I reckon it's too big to wrap you hand around comfortably for one handed thumb operation. Imagine having to operate this phone with two hands all the time.
Maybe too big to fit some pockets.
THD / iPhone is about the largest L x W I'm willing to go.
Also no support from XDA. The biggest

Rozenthal said:
Other obvious minuses are small-resolution camera, with no flash. Can't understand why they left it out on Touch HD, and now Toshiba lowers the resolution and leaves the flash out.
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Lowering the resolution is a good thing, it'll take better pictures at this sensor size due to less noise problems. That's why they've done it.
5 megapixels is way too many for a phone, and thus the HD's camera is rubbish.

agreed.. 5 megapixels is ridiculous for a sensor of that size and the proof is in the poor quality of the pictures taken by the hd. i think you'd find that the pictures would look better on the toshiba (if they do the job properly.. pictures taken on se's and samsungs certainly do). it's the size of the phone that's the issue for me..

also agree that 3 megapixels is way better than 5 megapixels on these devices! as for the size this toshiba is way to big for one hand operation...

Imagine a perfect device...

What kind of device would it take to make you leave touch HD and switch to something new?
I've been looking at some of the latest generation devices popping out (from various manufacturers) and I have to say I have not been not one bit tempted to make the switch.
So, for some future imaginary HTC device, here's what I'd like to see addressed:
Hardware related:
1. Illuminated hardware touch sensitive keys. I really hate this isn't present on Touch HD. A tinly LED would solve this and make the device much more usable in the dark.
2. More hardware keys. Perhaps a camera button, or simply few "blank" buttons that users can customize. A scroll wheel would be awesome.
3. A better visual indicator of received / missed calls and messages. That tiny LED on power button is hardly noticeable. They should've placed it on front side.
4. More easier way to soft-reset and swap memory cards. Perhaps dual memory card slots.
5. Make the device slightly more responsive, either by increasing memory / processor speed, or optimizing the bundled software. If ROM chefs can do it, I guess HTC can too.
6. FLASHLIGHT LED (This should've been the first on the list )
7. Add multi-touch.
8. Video output would be nice.
9. Make an accessory that would serve as a small portable and detachable Bluetooth keyboard. I can't figure out why HTC doesn't offer this. Is it so hard to rip out the keyboard from say new Touch Pro 2 and put a battery and Bluetooth chip inside that would work as a HID interface device?
SOFTWARE RELATED
1. Proper drivers that support hardware video acceleration.
2. Complete overhaul of Touch Flo 3D. Make it skinnable, make it highly user-configurable, integrate it even deeper over ugly WinMo.
3. Fix the annoying bugs.
4. Add default Divx and Xvid support. For a device with word "HD" in it's name, and such a big screen, this really should've been done long ago.
I'll leave other ideas to you

I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.

Wiggz said:
I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.
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I agree with you in some aspects. Yes their will never be a perfect phone as everyone has different opinions on what the perfect phone is. So what may be perfect to you, may be no where near perfect for me etc. Thats why there will always be a wide variety of phones.
I disagree with you on manufacturers bundling everything into phones as that is what is currently being implemented by all manufacturers. Phones nowadays aren't just a phone they have cameras, radios, mp3 players, navigational apps like tomtom, tv tuners, personal organisers etc. Why have one of each when you can have one in all. This is what the customer wants and the manufacturers are realising this and are already producing devices with this already built in. With time the quality of these devices will improve.....but there will always be room for improvement. This is why we will never be happy IMO. For example. If you go out and buy a 50 inch plasma tv. Next year a better model will e available and you will want it instead etc etc etc.
Thats my 2 cents anyhow!!

Happy to say that people share the same thought. at least it is one step closer to be perfect.

Wiggz said:
I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.
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I'm not sure a "perfect" device will never be made. There were some in the past that would pretty much fit into "perfect" category, based on their market position and "features vs. price vs. usability".
Also, I do not advocate putting everything into every device, but as you know, Touch HD is sitting pretty much at the top of the food chain when it comes to Windows Mobile devices. So, it's logical that it's feature pack will be bigger then the devices placed lower. I don't even want to throw in the average mobile phones in here.
My ideas are mostly very easy to implement / improve. For example, lets take a look at the Touch HD camera. They packed inside a 5 megapixel camera that takes rather ****ty photos even in perfect conditions, and they left out a LED flashlight. Wouldn't you rather have a LED flash and 3 megapixel camera that takes decent photos? Not to mention that the flashlight can also be used as a torch light in everyday situations.
Battery life on Touch HD is actually best out of all 2008. touch screen devices. Believe it or not, but you'll actually squeeze 30 minutes more battery out of Touch HD then out of famous iPhone, and the rest of the touchscreen gang isn't even close! I would gladly give up 10-15% battery life for an illuminated hardware keys and a flashlight and pay equally bigger end price.

Rozenthal said:
My ideas are mostly very easy to implement / improve. For example, lets take a look at the Touch HD camera. They packed inside a 5 megapixel camera that takes rather ****ty photos even in perfect conditions, and they left out a LED flashlight. Wouldn't you rather have a LED flash and 3 megapixel camera that takes decent photos? Not to mention that the flashlight can also be used as a torch light in everyday situations.
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Agree with you there mate, though I don't think a compromise on camera i.e. 3 MP with flashlight is the way forward. Look at Samsung for instance. They are able to provide 8MP cameras with autofocus and flashlight. Why can't HTC follow suit? Instead they keep throwing out 3.2MP with flashlight. I heard there next release is still only 5MP. Why not try and leap infront of their competitors? Its this kind of thing which irritates me

Fallen Spartan said:
Agree with you there mate, though I don't think a compromise on camera i.e. 3 MP with flashlight is the way forward. Look at Samsung for instance. They are able to provide 8MP cameras with autofocus and flashlight. Why can't HTC follow suit? Instead they keep throwing out 3.2MP with flashlight. I heard there next release is still only 5MP. Why not try and leap infront of their competitors? Its this kind of thing which irritates me
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Ah, well, the reason for Samsung offering some pretty damn good phone cameras is simple: they already have a strong photo / video department within their company. Heck, they even have an SLR photo cameras, not to mention quite decent compact cameras.
So, with that technology already being developed and implemented within the house, it's much more simpler for them to throw out devices with 8 megapixel cameras and autofocus and xeon flashlight.
HTC is (s)lacking in this area.

Rozenthal said:
Ah, well, the reason for Samsung offering some pretty damn good phone cameras is simple: they already have a strong photo / video department within their company. Heck, they even have an SLR photo cameras, not to mention quite decent compact cameras.
So, with that technology already being developed and implemented within the house, it's much more simpler for them to throw out devices with 8 megapixel cameras and autofocus and xeon flashlight.
HTC is (s)lacking in this area.
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Yes to some extent, but I think thats to easy an excuse personally. The technology is out there and easily copied between manufactuers and competitors. All you would need to do is go out and buy some camera, take it apart and learn how it worked. How long have cameras been around, and HTC is japanese. Aren't they supposed to be the best at compact electronics??

2 Years ago when I got my Prophet I thought about the same topic.
At that time I wanted a bigger screen with a higher resolution, a 3,5mm audio jack and a faster processor. When the HD came I thought it would be the perfect device for me but now I want other things.
The most annoying thing of the HD is the lack of Hardware keys and D-PAD.
I used them all the time with my Prophet and many programs need them or are much more usable with D-PAD and real hardware buttons. I've always asked myself why HTC gave the HD only 2 Hardware Keys. It may have the touch keys but they aren't usable when the screen is off and you press them sometimes by mistake and they aren't really usable at night.
They could just take a look at some old devices and see what they did better with them. For example the reset key. On my Prophet it was easy accessible without the need to remove the cover. The same with the SD card.
One good thing is that you can change the SIM while the device is running. It isn't easy because there is a pin that should prevent it but with some force you can take out the SIM without taking out the battery. So why can't they make the SIM easy changeable if possible even without the need of removing the cover.
The camera is bad but I haven't seen a really good camera from HTC yet. The only thing it can better than most other camera phones is taking videos because it doesn't use 3gp but that is everything good there is to the camera of the HD. And they could make the camera much better only by putting in a flash because without much light the camera of the HD isn't usable.

Fallen Spartan said:
HTC is japanese. Aren't they supposed to be the best at compact electronics??
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HTC aren't Japanese as far as I'm aware. They're Taiwanese, and generally they're best @ mass producing stuff and not exactly classy innovation (just look at ASUS, Gigabyte and all the other Taiwanese PC co's....).
Anyways, my wishlist for a "perfect" device with (hopefully!) near-future avaliability (some of these may have been mentioned already):
Hardware:
1. MultiTouch. Apparently with some new software even resistive screens can be as nice as responsive as capacitive ones.
2. 3.7" WVGA screen. Yeah I know smaller than the current 3.8" on the HD, but a slightly smaller screen = better handling when only using one hand, v. important for a mobile device imho. And @ that size, it's still possible to read (just) webpages without zooming in massive amounts (unlike the X1 / Diamond2)
3. Dual-LED Flash (at least!) w/ Auto-Flash. If SE can get Auto-Flash working on the X1, so can HTC!
4. SonyEriccson W950-style backlit buttons instead of the capacitive ones they have right now. It's annoying since I sometimes accidentally press those without meaning to.
5. Lanyard hook / hole. WTH they didn't include it before, I dunno.
6. (Optional) Slide-out landscape keyboard w/ dpad (kinda like the N97, but no silly angled slide)... always nice to have a proper keyboard when typing long emails
7. 1Ghz Snapdragon or some other sort of beefy processor so we can enjoy games and other stuff @ WVGA res without slowing down!
8. At least 512mb RAM. I want to be able to do TRUE multitasking and not have to shutdown apps just because Opera is starting up. And I wanna stop getting those annoying "out of memory errors" from NFS:U!
Software:
1. More stable OS. I don't wanna have to soft-reset the device every couple of days! If my previous Symbian-based UIQ3 SE W960 could work for weeks on end without having to reset it, WinMo should be able to do the same.
+ What Rozenthal said

So many people share the thoughts on the obvious defects in HD.
Was wondering whether I should return it. But which one else could be the good substituion?
In another word, HD is the perfect device til now?

henrik.dk said:
So many people share the thoughts on the obvious defects in HD.
Was wondering whether I should return it. But which one else could be the good substituion?
In another word, HD is the perfect device til now?
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If you're going for Windows Mobile, I don't think you'll find a better device available at this moment. I would not go as far to say that it's "perfect" - as any high-tech device, it has it's downsides and annoying moments, but it is the best you can get.
Also, biggest change for me since getting my Touch HD was flashing a custom made ROM. That felt pretty much like getting a new device.

HD2 Issues

i think the HD2 is an amazing piece of hardware and its clearly better than any other competing product in the coming few months. i do however hate a few things about it:
1-the lack of front camera for 3G video calls. while i may not care a lot about video calls i imagine that many will be missing it.
2-i see no point of releasing a separate delayed hardware revision for US market. especially when you consider that the rest of the world version lacks the front camera just like every other US phone. the Acer F1(another 1 GHZ 3G phone) has been available for a while and it supports US 3G bands on the same hardware and it even has the front camera.
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
4- the included 512MB ROM is a joke. i know that it can be expanded with SD card. but extra flash on the device is always useful. the 1.5 year old Omnia had 8/16/24BG+microSD why cant this have it. adding 8 or 16 GB flash costs HTC almost nothing to add
5-lack of stylus: HTC patented the capacitive stylus but they didnt use it. i know the the screen is big enough to be very finger friendly. but its still windows mobile and some applications work need stylus (for example Pocket artist).
6- lack of hardware buttons (especially camera). i wish the added 2 or 3 buttons on the empty sides. WM will always make use of the hardware buttons
7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration and bigger than integrated storage ) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7.
8-i dont understand the 320+128MB. the dedicated 128MB for the low performing graphics chip seems pointless to me. if they are going to put all this memory there why didnt they allocate it to program memory.
9- i really love how HTC managed to make the device reasonably small considering the huge 4.3" screen. i still think that its physically too big for many people. the HD was not very pocket friendly and this one is even bigger. i wish the screen was 4.0" or even 3.8". considering their recent improved and more efficient designs, im sure HTC would have been able to even make it friendly for one hand use with a smaller screen.
10- im not too big on the new standard micro-USB connector. they should have at lest included the hard to find mini-USB to micro-USB adapter with it. everybody already has several mini-USB cables/chargers but ive never actually seen a micro USB yet.
11- they increased up the specs (and power usage i would assume) significantly from the first HD but they reduced the battery size from 1350 to 1250mah!!!. luckily the early reports are suggesting "acceptable" battery life

Only thing missing for me on the device is a decent camera. I don't mean HTC standard... I mean the best of Nokia, Samsung & Sony Ericsson. The original HD took terrible pictures and videos. I don't think there is much improvement in this area from previews and videos.
TV-Out would of been great but sadly missing.
I don't care about front camera because I hardly ever use video call.
It's probably more of a business centric device but with such a large screen it could have so easily been the ultimate work and pleasure phone.
I'm leaning towards the Nokia N900 (Linux) but still undecided.

Just some thoughts for your annoyances! (I currently own an Omnia too)
THE GRIZZ said:
1-the lack of front camera for 3G video calls. while i may not care a lot about video calls i imagine that many will be missing it.
3G has been around for a while with a front video camera, but I can truly say that I don't know a single person that actually uses it. It's a gimmick IMO.
2-i see no point of releasing a separate delayed hardware revision for US market. especially when you consider that the rest of the world version lacks the front camera just like every other US phone. the Acer F1(another 1 GHZ 3G phone) has been available for a while and it supports US 3G bands on the same hardware and it even has the front camera.
I don't see the point either - bit silly if you ask me.
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
FM what? It still bedazzles me that people listen to FM radio these days. Surely most people have unlimited internet now and like I just use internet radio. More stations! As for the TV-out, again, I don't see the point really. Personally I use my netbook/laptop/pc for plugging into a tv since they can play HD. I supposed it would be nice if you want to show off photos to friends but then we all have facebook these days anyway For me, not a sore exclusion.
4- the included 512MB ROM is a joke. i know that it can be expanded with SD card. but extra flash on the device is always useful. the 1.5 year old Omnia had 8/16/24BG+microSD why cant this have it. adding 8 or 16 GB flash costs HTC almost nothing to add
I love the additional 8GB of the Omnia, but I guess they have to keep costs down somewhere. I have a 16GB micro SD, but when are 24/32 going to be available? Anyone know?
5-lack of stylus: HTC patented the capacitive stylus but they didnt use it. i know the the screen is big enough to be very finger friendly. but its still windows mobile and some applications work need stylus (for example Pocket artist).
I think you can still use a stylus but you have to set it up to do so (I saw it in another post on here).
6- lack of hardware buttons (especially camera). i wish the added 2 or 3 buttons on the empty sides. WM will always make use of the hardware buttons
There is no excuse for extra buttons down the side, although it makes it a bit more sleek I guess. But it's not like it doesn't take photos, it's just a useablitly thing.
7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7.
I'm not sure that's right is it? In that original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? I think it's remains a bit of an unknown at the moment. That said, will wm7 be complete in 12 months? Given M$'s history of keeping to their planned dates, I doubt it. I think cookers will make it happen anyway and if not, in 12 months it will be upgrade time. Did someone say HD3?!
8-i dont understand the 320+128MB. the dedicated 128MB for the low performing graphics chip seems pointless to me. if they are going to put all this memory there why didnt they allocate it to program memory.
This one I have no idea about. Maybe they have something clever up their sleeves?
9- i really love how HTC managed to make the device reasonably small considering the huge 4.3" screen. i still think that its physically too big for many people. the HD was not very pocket friendly and this one is even bigger. i wish the screen was 4.0" or even 3.8". considering their recent improved and more efficient designs, im sure HTC would have been able to even make it friendly for one hand use with a smaller screen.
Well lets look at the iPhone. It's a huge seller. The HD2 is only a couple of mm's wider and taller so I don't see anyone is going to see it as an issue when they put it in their hands.
10- im not too big on the micro-USB connector. they should have at lest included the hard to find mini-USB adapter with it. everybody already has several mini-USB cables/chargers but ive never actually seen a micro USB yet.
I totally disagree here. It's the new universal format. You won't have seen many yet because devices are JUST beginning to emerge with it (ie Omnia 2). Already it's working because Samsung usually have their own proprietary connector so to see them go universal is a fantastic step in the right direction. It would be blind of HTC not to follow. So yes, bin those old Mini-USB
11- they increased up the specs (and power usage i would assume) significantly from the first HD but they reduced the battery size from 1350 to 1250mah!!!. luckily the early reports are suggesting "acceptable" battery life
I really hope it can last at least one full day of decent usage without the requirement of a charge. Surely they wouldn't make this wonderful device then shoot themselves in the foot??
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Anyway some good points there!

7-despite the very high specs, its still less than the minimum Windows mobile7 specs (which requires Tegra level graphics performance acceleration) which means that it will not be
upgradeable to wm7
I'm not sure that's right is it? In that original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? I think it's remains a bit of an unknown at the moment. That said, will wm7 be complete in 12 months? Given M$'s history of keeping to their planned dates, I doubt it. I think cookers will make it happen anyway and if not, in 12 months it will be upgrade time. Did someone say HD3?!
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It is very likely WM7 will be out by mid to late next year. WM8 is already being discussed as I understand it and WM6 and 6.5 have been universally panned (and quite rightly).
So if you purchase the HD2 assuming it will be out of date in less than 10 months then all well but I suspect many will not be happy (including me). I don't mind spending extra bucks now to avoid doubling my investment by having to purchase two devices in the space of 10 months!
Do you have the link to the original "in the original Leo thread in the main board, wasn't it confirmed that it will be upgradable? "

add this to the list:
1. lack of full-fledged graphics drivers (3D)
2. lack of d-pad; or trackball like blackberrys

1) Front Camera - most people don't use them so not a big deal
2) Buy the Acer if you like it (have fun)
3) it has got an FM Radio onboard I believe
4) Memory could be better but its got an SD card so just by a 16gb card.
5) The point is you don't need a stylus - am I missing something. If you wannt a Stylus get an Omnia 2
6) The camera button could have been useful - but nobody knows if one of the front buttons cannot be used. Shall we wait till its been reviewed fully before we slag it off.
7) Its been clearly stated that the specs do not say "Tegra" only. Thats just not true. Makes me laugh that a phone with great 3d potential and dedicated memory like the HD2 is being slagged off for no reason.
8) The screen size is the best part of the phone - it can be used to watch video, surf the net, etc. So it has to be big to fit the screen - not an issue.
9) Micro-USB!! - You mean the defacto standard now.
10) Nobody knows about battery life yet so lets hold fire.
Why are you interested in the phone if non of its main selling points you like?

because despite its "limitations" its still a lot better than the rest now.
take a chill pill dude and try to tone-down the fanboiasm. our nitpicking will make it very easy for HTC to make the HD3 a better device. also by highlighting them so early in its life, it will make easy easy for its users to deal with its potential issues

Teneka_Khan said:
1) Front Camera - most people don't use them so not a big deal
2) Buy the Acer if you like it (have fun)
3) it has got an FM Radio onboard I believe
4) Memory could be better but its got an SD card so just by a 16gb card.
5) The point is you don't need a stylus - am I missing something. If you wannt a Stylus get an Omnia 2
6) The camera button could have been useful - but nobody knows if one of the front buttons cannot be used. Shall we wait till its been reviewed fully before we slag it off.
7) Its been clearly stated that the specs do not say "Tegra" only. Thats just not true. Makes me laugh that a phone with great 3d potential and dedicated memory like the HD2 is being slagged off for no reason.
8) The screen size is the best part of the phone - it can be used to watch video, surf the net, etc. So it has to be big to fit the screen - not an issue.
9) Micro-USB!! - You mean the defacto standard now.
10) Nobody knows about battery life yet so lets hold fire.
Why are you interested in the phone if non of its main selling points you like?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haved discovered that it does support WM7http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=7528 states
(QCOM 8k, Nvidia “Tegra” AP15/16* and TI 3430 all meet spec)
Qualcomm 8k = Snapdragon's QSD8xxx-series chips = Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 (which is in the Leo).. so the processor should meet WM7 chassis 1 requirement.
To answer the FM radio question - the answer is YES
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd2-2957.php
I agree with the comments above. There is no such thing as a perfect device but you have got to congratulate HTC on the HD2 being one of the closest to it.

alecs said:
I haved discovered that it does support WM7http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=7528 states
(QCOM 8k, Nvidia “Tegra” AP15/16* and TI 3430 all meet spec)
Qualcomm 8k = Snapdragon's QSD8xxx-series chips = Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 (which is in the Leo).. so the processor should meet WM7 chassis 1 requirement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The processor does, but the Chassis 1 spec also specifies at least 1GB of flash (and at least 512mb fast flash).
The HD2 only comes with 512mb internal memory.

Sc4Freak said:
The processor does, but the Chassis 1 spec also specifies at least 1GB of flash (and at least 512mb fast flash).
The HD2 only comes with 512mb internal memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By 1GB of flash I believe that means available storage i.e. an SD card
Memory: 256MB+ DRAM, 1G+ Flash (at least 512MB fast flash – 5MB/s unbuffered read @4K block size)
I am not sure what fast flash means but these are minumum specs and doesn't mean the device can't run WM7, it may just lag in certain spots though somehow I doubt this thing will lag even on WM7

Is the specified 65k for the screen a hardware or software limitation? I know Windows Mobile 6.5 only supports 65k effective colors, but when WM 7 launches would the device be able to display more colors?

Toss3 said:
Is the specified 65k for the screen a hardware or software limitation? I know Windows Mobile 6.5 only supports 65k effective colors, but when WM 7 launches would the device be able to display more colors?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure it does . they dont make "65K color display" !

Most mobile phone LCD screens are 262K colours (18-bit). (This includes many of the displays used on phones that are advertised as supporting 24-bit colour.)

manuelcalavera said:
sure it does . they dont make "65K color display" !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But does anyone know the actual maximum bit-depth of the display?

The GRIZZ said:
3- considering that its the best multimedia phone made by HTC, its lacking the TV-out and the FM-Radio transmitter and better camera(all of which are supported by the N97)
FM what? It still bedazzles me that people listen to FM radio these days. Surely most people have unlimited internet now and like I just use internet radio. More stations! As for the TV-out, again, I don't see the point really. Personally I use my netbook/laptop/pc for plugging into a tv since they can play HD. I supposed it would be nice if you want to show off photos to friends but then we all have facebook these days anyway For me, not a sore exclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude theres a difference between FM Receiver and FM Transmitter. A FM Transmitter is important for those who own a car. The FM Transmitter can be used to transmit Music at a certain frequency which can be tuned to in the car using the Cars FM Radio!
The HD2 already has a FM Receiver. It might also support FM Transmission capabilities but that depends on which chip its using.
Video Out is certainly a welcome addon. Showing off Photos on a LCD is way better than telling them to login to Facebook! I for one will surely miss the TV Out.
Inspite of that, I consider these two features to be of very less importance when compared to the other feature set. This is the THE KILLER phone everyone was waiting for!

Prefer Touch HD over HD2
I agree with Grizzly on almost every point he's been making so far. Before I catch the flames too I shall start with a story...
My HP iPAQ was stolen from a payphone booth within one minute where I forgot it at an airport a year ago. This was my first real PDA and I was extraordinarily disappointed. I had racked up a lot of apps on it and and had even made the home screen sexy and easy to use with a few mods. Going from interfacing my custom cycles with the PCR machine (lab work) to playing old favourites like SimCity 2000 in lectures was great!
The next thing I obviously wanted was a PDA PHONE, so I didn't have to use a payphone booth again... so I got the Touch HD when it just came out in Oz from Telstra (who still sell it for $1500 - 215% markup). And it was absolutely perfect. Did everything, well supported by the community, and using it as a phone and an organizer that synced with outlook it worked a charm. Then last month getting a taxi back from the pub, I was left at a busway because the taxi driver who was fresh from India could not find my home as it wasn't on the GPS. Calling another taxi I got mugged for it while I was using it, snatched it from my hand. So now I was faced with having to get a new phone.
I have bought a Touch HD again. You see, the HD2 as fantastic as it is, is half way between being a traditional WM phone and an Android phone. Without the use of a stylus, how can you hand write down meeting notes? How can I use all my legacy games and applications? What's the point of having something a little zippier when the new manilla (which is a bit too busy) is going to be hacked onto the Touch HD anyway and it doesn't have the Tegra for true gaming pwnage or audiophile quality audio or a true camera replacement camera? Also the lack of 3G camera ticks me off too. I can't video call my parents in NZ which although is horrendously expensive, I enjoy doing on birthdays and so on - on special occasions we're often away from our computers.
What I am going to do is stick with my tried and tested HD and see if the HD2 has any advantage over the Dragon before I upgrade. Or even other non-HTC devices (god forbid) should they provide Audio/Graphics advantages. Because really the point of this thing is to replace the need to carry around other devices. Otherwise just get something that is only a phone, right?

I just found this vid, shows the games on it and well there is only 1 teeter! How could they cut solitaire and bubble breaker! What am i gonna waste time with now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntZQ0iXzyvc&feature=player_embedded
Its @ about 2:45

THE GRIZZ said:
our nitpicking will make it very easy for HTC to make the HD3 a better device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very much so. HTC an enormous international company dedicated to producing a whole range of phones and mobile devices needs listen to random forum posters who can't even get their facts straight.
I'd like to take the opportunity to thank you for helping make the HD3 into the perfect device, derailing HTC's initial plans of improving the phone by removing the screen entirely and replacing it with a bar of soap. Your factual inaccuracies are making the mobile world a better place.

Since there is no dedicated off/on hardware ringer switch, is there a way to silence the phone while it is locked?

the volume rocker is normally used for something like that
mr_Ray said:
Very much so. HTC an enormous international company dedicated to producing a whole range of phones and mobile devices needs listen to random forum posters who can't even get their facts straight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please spare us your fan-boyish drivel. What I mentioned in the OP are all valid concerns

GTab >>>> Ipad

I posted this in another forum, thought I will re-post it here.
I had Ipad2 for 2 weeks and returned it. Once you use android tablet for a week, you can't go back to Ipad 2.
There are lot of reasons to choose android over ipad. Couple of examples:
=> Google maps kicks ass in android. IPad also has google maps, but its crippled - there are no reviews, no 3D view, no rotating using multi-touch, etc..
=> Widgets make a big difference in the 10" screen. You get the see emails, weather, calendar in the main screen, esp. with re-sizable widgets. Switch on the tablet, look at important stuff, move on with your life. In Ipad, you need to search for the three apps in the sea of icons, open one, close, look for next app and so on. There's a sea of difference in usability.
=> Android task bar has short cuts to change lot of settings like brightness and is available without the need to close the app that you are on. Say, you are reading a webpage that has a link to youtube. For reading you may like low brightness, but video with dark background requires more brightness. Steps to change screen brightness in IPad: you need to close the current app, search for settings icon in the sea of app icons, open settings, look for 'screen' settings, open the settings, look for brightness control, change brightness, double tap the hardware button to see the previous app, click it to open where you were. In honeycomb, you just click the task bar icon, change brightness, done. Now, that's usability.
=> Ipad is 4:3, pretty useless for viewing videos/movies. Watching 16:9 movies in Ipad is painful. Netflix works in Ipad (in the works for android, not out yet), but I honestly couldn't use it in Ipad because of the 4:3 screen. It's like watching movie on the old CRT screen.
=> IPad has no flash.
=> IPad has no back button. Every app implements 'back' functionality in their own way. You need to search for the 'back' button in every app. It gets frustrating very fast. Android has a beautiful back button that's available always and behaves exactly the same way in every app. It's magical. Really.
This is just the tip of iceberg. The list goes on and on.
If you are not big on games, then the several thousand apps in the app store means nothing. Because every useful app has a counterpart in honeycomb.
I know this is a android/gtab 10.1 forum so we'll be obviously biased, but what do you think of ipad?

I agree with everything you have said - not to mention the specs are under that of the 10.1, and if the rumors are true around the place there will be an updated model either at the time of the release of the 4G (unlikely), or within a few months after...
I am crossing my fingers and waiting for the rumors to be confirmed because if an updated model with wqxga (retina display competitor) 300+ dpi, plus microSD (if it's not released with the coming model), and possible quad core cpu (although it might just be the exynos 1.2Ghz), comes out within that sort of time frame then bugger me you are already beating the released 'possible' specs of the 2012/2013 release of iPad3!
lol - I am seriously excited about the 10.1. I have no doubt it is going to rock the crap out of the iPad2 for all the reasons you have stated and many more.
I have no concerns about possible build issues with the device as I have an Omnia 2 which is the same high grade plastics they are using in the 10.1 and i have dropped it many many many times - the phone has no issues, no cracking no warping etc it is just like the day i bought it (with some minor scratches of course).
Also people say customer service is crap for Samsung - well that depends on the country you are in and your expectations but let me tell you here in the philippines where customer service for the majority of companies is unheard of, I have had my screen replaced on the Omnia 2 when i had some white dots appear (probably due to me dropping it down some stairs on to concrete), no questions asked, within 3 to 5 days. and that was with a cooked rom that came up with a naughty boot message.
So yeah I don't blame you for trading in your iPad2

I started writing out this long response on all the positive points I see with the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Not because I think the iPad 2 is better. Just wanted to point out some of the iPad's strengths because I do think the device is pretty good.
But I like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more, got worried I might come off wrong and get riped apart like a rabbit before a pack of wolves. Haha.
So instead of the long post, I'll just give a brief short list of what I consider some pros for the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1... and I emphasis I still like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more and am waiting to buy one.
* Over 50,000 tablet optimized apps. Original iPad came out over a year and has been massively successful. Apple has a huge head start. I think the Android optimized apps still count in the low hundreds right now. And I often see lesser quality with the Android versions. It'll improve, but it's going to take time.
* iOS is more stable. 3.1 has helped, Android Market doesn't bug out on me as much. But there are still stability issues with Honeycomb. I'm a little fearful to install too many apps on my Android tablets because I've had some apps have a negative impact on the entire tablet's performance. Even Motorola's CEO commented recently on this being a concern. iOS on the other hand I have no fear installing everything I see (had over 120 apps on my iPad 1) without fear of performance issues.
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Still. An exciting thing about Android is this is it's first tablet OS, I think things are moving fast for Android, and we get to be along for the ride. It's only going to keep getting better. And we are already blessed with amazing freedom, flexibility, and customization options. This is what I love about Android.
And I had seriously thought about getting an iPad 2. There are some apps I know I like much more on iOS than Android. But I feel like I'm just giving up way too much control for that. And I think the apps will get better here.

Ravynmagi said:
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, this is weird. Samsung has a bigger battery, but 2 1/2 hours less runtime on the Anandtech review.

Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....

Ravynmagi said:
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about the "more polishness", but its more stable than honeycomb. I think honeycomb is more polished than ios, but it's less stable right now due to the FCs.
About battery life - honeycomb tablets don't have bad battery life. 8-10 hours battery life is not bad. Apple does have couple of more hours of battery life and better standby battery life, but then we are now in the bragging rights territory. If you charge every day and not going on international trips, the extra hour of battery life is not going to matter to most of the tablet buyers.
Same goes for app store. You said you have 120 apps installed in your ipad, average person has 5 to 20. Honeycomb had every app *I* wanted. The quality of third party apps was similar between Ipad and Honeycomb. But YMMV. If a person needs a specialized app that's not available in HC, then they need to stick with Ipad. OTOH, google apps are vastly superior to the ones in Ipad. That was the deciding factor for me.

Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
With that said, while there are not many Honeycomb-specific apps, at least most pre-3.0 apps play nice with HC (upscaling for screen size).
I had a brief time (about 3 hours) where I thought the iPad2 would be a better option for me than the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Luckily, I was talked off the ledge. The only thing that had me leaning towards the Pad is tablet-specific apps, but in the end most of my tablet usage is through the browser.
What sealed the deal in my getting the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was the deep integration of Google services. Until iOS5 comes out, there is definitely nothing on the iPad that holds a candles to Google's Android-account management system (not that I'm aware of, but I an ignorant on this subject).

mightymouse2045 said:
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either

ralexand said:
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true. iPhone apps run on iPad /w the same resolution (occupy a tiny area in the middle of the tablet) or 2x the resolution (occupy most of the tablet screen, but /w blurry text, etc.). Either way, I found it unusable.
OTOH, many, but not all, phone apps run well in HC. They scale nicely and you would hardly know that they are not designed for HC. Case in point, engadget app or many of the news apps.

smaskell said:
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).

mightymouse2045 said:
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, of course. I couldn't agree more. Just thought it was a bit of an odd way of putting it haha.

Pixel C vs The World

I am in a state of utter indecision and hope this post can generate some food for thought.
I am in possession of my second Galaxy Note tablet--the 2014--and am very unhappy with multi'window and bezel buttons. Before I bought the 2014 I tried jumping off the Android ecosystem to Apple and was less than happy with it, so the 2014 was a bit of a knee jerk, thinking that I could work around the button problem--I can't. But even worse is how they made multi-window into a horrible "feature".
All that is to say that I'm not platform dependent, and that I am so done with Samsung--no matter how much I like the stylus. The stylus was a useful feature but felt awkward to hold so while I think all tablets should have a stylus, I know that it is easier to say than to do in a logical fashion.
Over the past couple years I've encountered a couple Surface users who use theirs in concert with work and speak very highly of their capability. I think one of those would be better than a laptop when I travel. But having tried an early model I don't think they hold-up all that well as tablets. Certainly they do the job okay but don't feel right to me. I don't think like some that the Pixel C is aimed at competing with the surface--perhaps more an attempt at moving the platform more in that direction. It doesn't at all compare well with the surface IMHO.
Another thing that I read is people complaining about keyboards on tablets. I've always wanted one to make answering emails easier. That on screen keyboard is still not as good as a keyboard to me--call it an old folk interface device (OFID) if you must. That said, I've never had one because Bluetooth keyboards always seemed so finicky and the extra charging cable seemed a bridge too far for me. So the Pixel C keyboard's charging method seems inventive and spot on, but I'm not sure I like the Bluetooth nor do I understand why (comparing the surface keyboard with it) some keys had to be dropped off and a trackpad wasn't possible--though those seem a smallish issue.
So I'm having trouble deciding whether to get away from Android tablets and move toward a Surface or go with a Pixel C or something else. I do little more than reading on my 2014--well that and sending all my pictures to it over Eyefi, and web browsing. So I see little real reason to spend Surface Pro 4 money, but the extra functionality would be useful. I've worked more with Google Drive and spreadsheets and docs and am happy to think I can do some office work that way if need be but sometimes you need absolute compatibility without fail so I'm going to be a bit skiddish there.
So I know that's a bit of a ramble, but it seems all that's been rolling around in my head I really want to like this tablet but I'd want more than 64GB of storage because of those pictures, I really would like it to be removable memory, and as weird as it seems this lovely tablet got me looking closer at the Surface and thinking a PRO 3 might be a better bet. Don't come at me swinging, just give me some food for thought.

I strongly agree to stay away from Samsung, so you're already in a good spot after that decision.
Regarding storage space, I'm with you on wanting more space/expandability, but the general trend is to store eveyrthing online these days. At least if you have 64 gb for base that should be reasonable for most core use. (Android and its apps eat up considerably less space than Windows does, so it's not a straight space comparison. But ceretainly there is still a space comparison.)
In either case, bluetooth keyboard will hopefully prove comfortable for you as connection should be strong and seamless.
It really comes down to what you want to do with your new device. Pixel C will give you more portability, more apps, everything your Samsung could do but do it much better, faster, and cooler. Surface will give you PC-ability, Microsoft Office and similar full-PC apps, stylus-digitizer, expansion and desktop-friendly.
Also, Surface is available now and Pixel C is available ?? "by 2015 holidays" ???

ferrydust said:
I strongly agree to stay away from Samsung, so you're already in a good spot after that decision.
Regarding storage space, I'm with you on wanting more space/expandability, but the general trend is to store eveyrthing online these days. At least if you have 64 gb for base that should be reasonable for most core use. (Android and its apps eat up considerably less space than Windows does, so it's not a straight space comparison. But ceretainly there is still a space comparison.)
In either case, bluetooth keyboard will hopefully prove comfortable for you as connection should be strong and seamless.
It really comes down to what you want to do with your new device. Pixel C will give you more portability, more apps, everything your Samsung could do but do it much better, faster, and cooler. Surface will give you PC-ability, Microsoft Office and similar full-PC apps, stylus-digitizer, expansion and desktop-friendly.
Also, Surface is available now and Pixel C is available ?? "by 2015 holidays" ???
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Certainly Windows is part of the reason I shy away from surface, but it is a necessary evil sometimes. I could have a Surface 3 pro right now if I was all that enamored with it, that I don't is due in part to the fact that I don't have to make the decision now. I've been with Android a long time and don't have major complaints, but battery life and security are issues I care about. Both seem to be getting some attention so I've no real burning reason to move away just yet.
So if I can reliably distill the above ramble into a shorter statement it might be that I feel the tug of Surface because I travel a bit for work, and I want a new tablet. I'm just not totally sold on the Pixel C Because of doubts and dissatisfaction with the keyboard and lack of external memory.
That may seem weak sauce to those of you who've been in the Nexus realm for a bit and I'd certainly put lots of faith in your expectations vs experience thoughts, and that's part of why I'm here. Nexus seems like the only realistic Android choice for me as updates and security go hand-in-hand. The Pixel C being an outgrowth of Nexus would presumably follow in the same foot steps. I also like what I'm seeing from an industrial design standpoint.--a Nexus 6p will be in my hands in a couple weeks. As I've stated, memory is an issue more because it doesn't seem enough to hold the pictures from the EyeFi card. I'll have to see how much space I'm currently using to justify that thought though.

wclark57 said:
Certainly Windows is part of the reason I shy away from surface, but it is a necessary evil sometimes.
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FWIW, I'm pleasantly comfortable with Windows 10 on my laptop. I did not love windows 8 and had several measures in place to wrangle it into behaving like 7 for me. I've left windows 7 as is on my Workstation, but both my machines have very similar setups and I use Synergy between them and have been pleased with everything running swimmingly. Having a good touch screen makes a good bit of difference. The Windows store apps, though, are pretty bleh to me. That's not been an issue for me on Win 10; I use the regular desktop apps I've always used on regular windows, rather than the "touch-screen friendly" and "metro-style" apps.
I've been with Android a long time and don't have major complaints, but battery life and security are issues I care about. Both seem to be getting some attention so I've no real burning reason to move away just yet.
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Agreed. Battery life should be comparable if not better from Android, particularly in this case.
So if I can reliably distill the above ramble into a shorter statement it might be that I feel the tug of Surface because I travel a bit for work, and I want a new tablet. I'm just not totally sold on the Pixel C Because of doubts and dissatisfaction with the keyboard and lack of external memory.
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If you use MS Office for work or similar desktop-dependent software, and don't want to lug around two machines (laptop for work plus tablet) then Surface is definitely your way to go. Otherwise, there's decent-to-great productivity applications on Android now (if you need MS Office or full Adobe Illustrator or similar, then nothing short of PC will cut it) and you may find the Pixel more portable, hardware and software-wise.[/quote]
Nexus seems like the only realistic Android choice for me as updates and security go hand-in-hand.
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Yes, other options are slim anyway, especially having ruled out Samsung. The other ones I'd look at in your case are Sony's Xperia tablet line or one of Lenovo's various tablets and tablet-laptop hybrids.
memory is an issue more because it doesn't seem enough to hold the pictures from the EyeFi card.
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Yes, I really wish they'd offer more memory across the board. You may find yourself happy and comfortable though with a combination built-in-memory+cloud-drive solution.
Since you're not in a rush, keep exploring the options and asking the questions. until you're comfortable or decidedly smitten with one machine.

ferrydust said:
FWIW, I'm pleasantly comfortable with Windows 10 on my laptop. I did not love windows 8 and had several measures in place to wrangle it into behaving like 7 for me. I've left windows 7 as is on my Workstation, but both my machines have very similar setups and I use Synergy between them and have been pleased with everything running swimmingly. Having a good touch screen makes a good bit of difference. The Windows store apps, though, are pretty bleh to me. That's not been an issue for me on Win 10; I use the regular desktop apps I've always used on regular windows, rather than the "touch-screen friendly" and "metro-style" apps. .
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While the ramble I've written above stands true, enough cannot be made of the security faults with non Nexus devices. My 2014 has not been updated since I got it and it has a bunch of bloatware I cannot remove and have not accepted the permissions for. Not to mention that the reason I tried Apple was largely what this version of Android attempts to fix. So this is the only Android tablet I am considering.
I've also recently bought a fine laptop and its running Linux--which is what I run at home. So while I can configure some synergy in, it isn't a given that the synergy will be all that. And yes I'm sure I could put Linux on the Surface, but that would take me away from my main use case for it.
It comes down to what I most value and I think the process of writing this all out has all but made my decision for me, but still, I would prefer a positive argument for this tablet and frankly I'm not sure I have one. That leads me to the thought that I have an actual use case for a Surface, but not an Android--well there is the photography, but I can setup the surface, or even the laptop (its just not as easy to lug around) to handle that.
The practical side of me says Surface, but every other fiber of my being says Pixel C. I'm trying to convince the practical me that its full of it.

wclark57 said:
it has a bunch of bloatware I cannot remove and have not accepted the permissions for.
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Cannot remove but you can disable them yes? Should be able to disable just about any app you like as long as it's not System... I'm not 100% sure if that's true for Samsung devices though (we've already covered that general topic...).
So this is the only Android tablet I am considering.
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Yes you and me both; I've ruled out the others this round. Most of them just don't come close to spec requirements.
I've also recently bought a fine laptop and its running Linux--which is what I run at home.
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Okay if you have this, then you may not need another laptop[hybrid] in the Surface, neh?
memory is an issue
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It does have that type-C usb port that can take external storage in a small lightweight form if you want to expand memory that way. I know that's not the same as built-in. They all (incl. Microsoft) really want us to be using their respective Cloud storage options, even though they don't yet provide us wth global free high-speed wifi to really take advantage of such.
a positive argument for this tablet and frankly I'm not sure I have one.
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It's purportedly attractive and pleasing to hold, cool keyboard charging and mechanisms, good specs (besides relatively limited storage space), very portable and nice size for frequent use, wide range of Android apps, reliable hardware and software, latest and greatest software and updates.
The practical side of me says Surface, but every other fiber of my being says Pixel C.
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This is a strong argument for the Pixel C. If you're not reasonably/unreasonably smitten with your device then what's really the point?
I think the strongest argument for the Surface above the Pixel C is not as much the storage space (even though that is a huge sticking point with me in general -- storage and ram. I'm annoyed at the general offerings by the technology world in this regard), but the Surface Pro capabilities as a digitizer. If you'll use a pen to screen, then the only choice is the Surface (but then the SP4 is much improved in that regard over the SP3...) Otherwise, for a high-powered Android device you can play and work and browse and do Android things with, Pixel is the choice for you.
If you can wait yet, wait for a bit more news on the Pixel C and some proper hands-on reviews to see if you're still intrigued. If they don't give me news soon, they're making the decision for me. (Grrrrrrr.)

ferrydust said:
Okay if you have this, then you may not need another laptop[hybrid] in the Surface, neh?
It does have that type-C usb port that can take external storage in a small lightweight form if you want to expand memory that way. I know that's not the same as built-in. They all (incl. Microsoft) really want us to be using their respective Cloud storage options, even though they don't yet provide us wth global free high-speed wifi to really take advantage of such.
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Yes, the use case does not apply at home, only during travel, and it deserves to be said that the case is served by a normal laptop currently--only the convenience of a smaller, lighter system is implied.
I just don't think moving images from my SLR to the cloud is all that good an idea. It already takes long enough to establish comm with the EyeFi card, adding several seconds to each image transfer to the cloud when you just took 20-30 shots seems excessive.
ferrydust said:
This is a strong argument for the Pixel C. If you're not reasonably/unreasonably smitten with your device then what's really the point?
I think the strongest argument for the Surface above the Pixel C is not as much the storage space (even though that is a huge sticking point with me in general -- storage and ram. I'm annoyed at the general offerings by the technology world in this regard), but the Surface Pro capabilities as a digitizer. If you'll use a pen to screen, then the only choice is the Surface (but then the SP4 is much improved in that regard over the SP3...) Otherwise, for a high-powered Android device you can play and work and browse and do Android things with, Pixel is the choice for you.
If you can wait yet, wait for a bit more news on the Pixel C and some proper hands-on reviews to see if you're still intrigued. If they don't give me news soon, they're making the decision for me. (Grrrrrrr.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So follow my heart? That's not my normal approach with hardware. Still, the very fact that I'm engaged here and checking several times a day does tell you that my heart is not to be trifled with. FYI, I read yesterday that Marshmallow is optimized for active stylus. But the whole of the application space for its use has always been less than inspiring, and keeping track of a stylus seems a bit of a chore. I will probably try one out though. As I alluded to earlier, the Note stylus barely got used and that was largely because it was a pain to use--largely a function of its size and the button placement. Its size was mainly driven by its storage method--which was a sensible feature. The surface stylus seems clumsy when it comes to keeping track of it. So IMHO there are limitations with how easy a stylus is to live with. It isn't on my list of must haves.
I'm with you on the lack of solid information. And I am so tired of the endless attempts to make this out as a competitor to the Surface with all the comparisons--just doesn't sound realistic to me.

wclark57 said:
Yes, the use case does not apply at home, only during travel, and it deserves to be said that the case is served by a normal laptop currently--only the convenience of a smaller, lighter system is implied.
I just don't think moving images from my SLR to the cloud is all that good an idea. It already takes long enough to establish comm with the EyeFi card, adding several seconds to each image transfer to the cloud when you just took 20-30 shots seems excessive.
So follow my heart? That's not my normal approach with hardware. Still, the very fact that I'm engaged here and checking several times a day does tell you that my heart is not to be trifled with. FYI, I read yesterday that Marshmallow is optimized for active stylus. But the whole of the application space for its use has always been less than inspiring, and keeping track of a stylus seems a bit of a chore. I will probably try one out though. As I alluded to earlier, the Note stylus barely got used and that was largely because it was a pain to use--largely a function of its size and the button placement. Its size was mainly driven by its storage method--which was a sensible feature. The surface stylus seems clumsy when it comes to keeping track of it. So IMHO there are limitations with how easy a stylus is to live with. It isn't on my list of must haves.
I'm with you on the lack of solid information. And I am so tired of the endless attempts to make this out as a competitor to the Surface with all the comparisons--just doesn't sound realistic to me.
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Also,
If they ultimately release a 128 GB version then I will stop complaining about memory--though I would still prefer it to be removable. Beyond the very real need to have space for pictures, is the convenience of traveling with something that would be able to replace my work laptop. I hope to convince the company to pop for a Surface so I think I'm just going to stop thinking about that. Still, if anyone uses an Android for work--using Office or Google Drive and its office suite--then workflow discussions would help.

wclark57 said:
Also,
If they ultimately release a 128 GB version then I will stop complaining about memory--though I would still prefer it to be removable. Beyond the very real need to have space for pictures, is the convenience of traveling with something that would be able to replace my work laptop. I hope to convince the company to pop for a Surface so I think I'm just going to stop thinking about that. Still, if anyone uses an Android for work--using Office or Google Drive and its office suite--then workflow discussions would help.
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I use a Note Pro 12.2 and I find both multiwindow and pen window to be absolutely brilliant. I am not sure I could use another android device without the pen window. I do use it for some work stuff when I am at home or away from my desk. For the most part I use Hancom Office apps for a couple of reason; first, it seems completely compatible with almost all other office suites, and second, because I use the s-mouse with my Note pro and in Hancom the s mouse has right click capability. As far as I know hancom is the only android office suite that has right click compatability built in and it means I can actually edit the data sets in excell fully on my Note Tablet. If the Pixel C does get a version of android with multiwindow support I would definately consider it. Otherwise the SP3/SP4 are the best option.

They certainly could have fixed it for the 12.2. Multi-window on the older note was great, but on the 2014 it just sucks. I click on a youtube link and half the screen is the browser window and half is the youtube window and I can only make either of them about two thirds the screen size by dragging the dividing line one way or the other. No movable windows, just a split screen, and no discernible way to make one take full screen. I don't tend to use the word, but I hate the thing.

Considering this is a Google tablet running pure Marshmallow, being able to unlock and root it to customize it, like putting Linux on it, or maybe even dual booting it for both Android or Linux or even Windows, it's pretty much a no brainer for me to get this. The 64 gb is the perfect amount of storage for me as well.

I've beat-up on the Galaxy Note 2014 enough to feel compelled to report that it just updated to Marshmallow.

wclark57 said:
I've beat-up on the Galaxy Note 2014 enough to feel compelled to report that it just updated to Marshmallow.
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Wat. I just got mine on Lollipop 5.1.1
How are you on Marshmallow?!?
I will say the 5.1.1 update was a positive but I am still gunning for the Pixel C.
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kibmikey1 said:
Considering this is a Google tablet running pure Marshmallow, being able to unlock and root it to customize it, like putting Linux on it, or maybe even dual booting it for both Android or Linux or even Windows, it's pretty much a no brainer for me to get this. The 64 gb is the perfect amount of storage for me as well.
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I dont think Windows will work on an ARM processor. I could be wrong though. I have heard of a decent amount of people wanting to dual boot into Linux though.
What I would really love is a dual boot of android/chromeOS.

atg284 said:
Wat. I just got mine on Lollipop 5.1.1
How are you on Marshmallow?!?
I will say the 5.1.1 update was a positive but I am still gunning for the Pixel C.
---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------
I dont think Windows will work on an ARM processor. I could be wrong though. I have heard of a decent amount of people wanting to dual boot into Linux though.
What I would really love is a dual boot of android/chromeOS.
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Yes, I should have checked my version numbers.