Related
what u guys think about the camera on the G1, I think it's pretty good.I had a wing and it's definitely better than that one(not by a blowout but better)but my only problem with it is u can't customize the settings for it like saturation brightness etc... and it takes like 5 seconds to take the picture after u press the button. I also wanted to know if it's better than the iphone camera, I never really messed with the iphone like that so i don't know how the camera is.
the iphone 3g camera i must say is very good and very clear thhe G1 camera is good but you have to be in very well lit areas to get any type of good picture in other wise it will be dark. i personally still use my dash camera because of the auto focus and backlighting
It's slow because the camera button is 2 stage, half way to focus, then all the way to take the picture.
Do you think they will add an app for the camera to fix the lighting, cuz I read from a tmobile rep somewhere that they was gonna release a video recording app for the camera so u can capture video but they took it down and it'll prolly be up soon,tech wise the iphone has a 2.0mp camera and the G1 has a 3.0mp so it should b better.
There is suppose to be an app released through the market on Monday that will do video and flash support. Sounds too good to be true but I really hope it is true.
As far as the camera if you hold the button down half way till you see the green light then take the picture it works really well. As far as adjusting the settings someone just needs to make an app to control it.
megapixels has NOTHING to do with camera quality. I have an old 2 megapixel Canon PowerShot A40 that will run rings around a ton of 5 megapixel crap cameras. You need a good lens and a good sensor, that is it.
The G1 lens is decent for a digital camera and pretty damn good for a camera phone. The downside is that it's a very slow lens and needs a long shutter release to get enough light. That's with any tiny camera though. They either jack up the gain and make the pictures look like crap or they slow down the shutter and if you move or your subject moves, it looks like crap.
I am very impressed that the autofocus can go from about 3" to infinity. I've never had a cameraphone w/ autofocus and it's helpful for taking pictures up close. My Eten X600 couldn't cope with anything less than about 2 feet away.
I am very impressed with the camera hardware. I would like the software to be updated soon though, current software seems incredibly slow and is unable to compensate in low-light situations.
Well if you ask me its disappointing. Camera on dash is ten times better. I know that apps will be made to improve settings options but no zoom, wtf??? I know developers will make an app for it but why on earth was something so basic not included? It seems like they decided to lean on developers a little too much. Seems the developers of this phone threw it together really lazy like and I for one am extremely disappointed. Not in phone itself just the way a lot of stuff works and all the basics missing from g1.
I'm disappointed that a lot of little things were left out like a decent camera app but it seems as though it would be at least another 6 months of work to make everything missing. At least we have stable phones in-hand right now.
Unrelated note: I have only had one phone-related lockup and that's because it couldn't get register on the network on the 10th floor in my downtown office building. Everything else has been 3rd party app related.
stats555 said:
Well if you ask me its disappointing. Camera on dash is ten times better. I know that apps will be made to improve settings options but no zoom, wtf??? I know developers will make an app for it but why on earth was something so basic not included? It seems like they decided to lean on developers a little too much. Seems the developers of this phone threw it together really lazy like and I for one am extremely disappointed. Not in phone itself just the way a lot of stuff works and all the basics missing from g1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my take on Android and the thinking behind it. I think Google intentionally made it in it's current state so we have the choice to upgrade it the way we see fit. It's kind of like when a cook creates a lite cooked rom. We add the apps we want on top of it. Remember they're doing what wm does and are making an os that works on many different handsets. So they probably left out some components they felt that not everyone will utilize, at least not at the moment, such as advanced camera features, virtual keyboard, etc. Over time, once they see what the consumer wants, they'll add such components. Like the virtual keyboard they said in Q1 '09. That'll most likely be pushed up since that's a common complaint for the G1, but is not a priority because we have a keyboard. Now let HTC make Touch HD with Android OS and i bet you'll see that keyboard in a week. Just my take on it
I really hope they do release that camera app come monday! That was be awesome, should compliment the G1 camera.
papito2181 said:
Here's my take on Android and the thinking behind it. I think Google intentionally made it in it's current state so we have the choice to upgrade it the way we see fit. It's kind of like when a cook creates a lite cooked rom. We add the apps we want on top of it. Remember they're doing what wm does and are making an os that works on many different handsets. So they probably left out some components they felt that not everyone will utilize, at least not at the moment, such as advanced camera features, virtual keyboard, etc. Over time, once they see what the consumer wants, they'll add such components. Like the virtual keyboard they said in Q1 '09. That'll most likely be pushed up since that's a common complaint for the G1, but is not a priority because we have a keyboard. Now let HTC make Touch HD with Android OS and i bet you'll see that keyboard in a week. Just my take on it
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I guess but it sounds like a lame excuse if you ask me. Google screwed up and left off basic things by accident. Then people (fanboys) and (Google) use the excuse of letting developers fix the f*cked up OS. Yeah, added stuff is okay but to have to add the basics is just crappy. They just need to admit there were mistakes made (And it is okay! It's a first generation OS!) and quit using the excuse of it's an open platform os and we'll leave that to the developers. What about your developers, Google? What have they done? They implemeted a few ideas with a linux core and made a very basic os for a mobile device. It's good but it's nothing special. I'm not impressed with anything. Most of the wow factor was borrowed from apple, wm, and htc.
They have done nothing inventive. And how open is this new platform? Not very from what I have seen. Developers are charged $25 (albeit not very much money, but still!) to add something on their marketplace store. This discourages freeware and SDK is pain in the ass. Most non-market apps. won't work because they were written with the older SDK. Everytime Google updates something will the SDK change with it? Who knows but they are off to a very iphone-like start to me at least. Sorry to rant, I actually expected worse problems! So far so good but I expected basics were covered, file explorer, camera settings, and so on. Just wish the BS excuses would go away. but then again, maybe the 3rd party developers can fix it,
sino8r said:
I guess but it sounds like a lame excuse if you ask me. Google screwed up and left off basic things by accident. Then people (fanboys) and (Google) use the excuse of letting developers fix the f*cked up OS. Yeah, added stuff is okay but to have to add the basics is just crappy. They just need to admit there were mistakes made (And it is okay! It's a first generation OS!) and quit using the excuse of it's an open platform os and we'll leave that to the developers. What about your developers, Google? What have they done? They implemeted a few ideas with a linux core and made a very basic os for a mobile device. It's good but it's nothing special. I'm not impressed with anything. Most of the wow factor was borrowed from apple, wm, and htc.
They have done nothing inventive. And how open is this new platform? Not very from what I have seen. Developers are charged $25 (albeit not very much money, but still!) to add something on their marketplace store. This discourages freeware and SDK is pain in the ass. Most non-market apps. won't work because they were written with the older SDK. Everytime Google updates something will the SDK change with it? Who knows but they are off to a very iphone-like start to me at least. Sorry to rant, I actually expected worse problems! So far so good but I expected basics were covered, file explorer, camera settings, and so on. Just wish the BS excuses would go away. but then again, maybe the 3rd party developers can fix it,
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Click to collapse
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Humm... a camera that can't zoom never heard of one, except those cheap, desposable 35mm cameras. Did I even mention that? Nope... But that is what you can expect from a non-contributing newbie... And btw, we have been modding WM way before you were here or your precious Android OS. Do you even know what basics are? They are what one SHOULD START WITH. Skipping the basics is just foolish. About development, don't forget about WM6.1. They develop their software until it is ready. Alot more things to deal with than Android. As of right now at least. I didn't cry or moan about any release. I rather they get it right before a release. What are you talking about?Why are you quoting me if you didn't read what I wrote?! This is supposed to be a smartphone not basic p.o.s. cellphone. It SHOULD HAVE ZOOM, video recording, and ambience controls. I'm not saying I don't like my new G1... just a little disappointed in the way Google wants the 3rd party developers to do their OWN developers work for them. But this what we get for trusting a search engine to develop a mobile OS, lol! How dare you say WM is locked down?! How is it locked down? We have a WHOLE FORUM THAT WOULD BEG TO DIFFER FROM YOUR STUPID STATEMENT!Go say that in the development and hacking section! What have they been doing for years now! Apple is locked but not Windows Mobile... This is first non-WM device on this forum! You sir, are mildly retarded... to say the least!
sino8r said:
Humm... a camera that can't zoom never heard of one, except those cheap, desposable 35mm cameras. Did I even mention that? Nope... But that is what you can expect from a non-contributing newbie... And btw, we have been modding WM way before you were here or your precious Android OS. Do you even know what basics are? They are what one SHOULD START WITH. Skipping the basics is just foolish. About development, don't forget about WM6.1. They develop their software until it is ready. Alot more things to deal with than Android. As of right now at least. I didn't cry or moan about any release. I rather they get it right before a release. What are you talking about?Why are you quoting me if you didn't read what I wrote?! This is supposed to be a smartphone not basic p.o.s. cellphone. It SHOULD HAVE ZOOM, video recording, and ambience controls. I'm not saying I don't like my new G1... just a little disappointed in the way Google wants the 3rd party developers to do their OWN developers work for them. But this what we get for trusting a search engine to develop a mobile OS, lol! How dare you say WM is locked down?! How is it locked down? We have a WHOLE FORUM THAT WOULD BEG TO DIFFER FROM YOUR STUPID STATEMENT!Go say that in the development and hacking section! What have they been doing for years now! Apple is locked but not Windows Mobile... This is first non-WM device on this forum! You sir, are mildly retarded... to say the least!
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Click to collapse
You sure are full of a lot of WHINE and ***** for an early adopter. Maybe you're just not cut out for this. If you really are going to let this phone turn every post into a slurry of barely legible insults I suggest you take the G1 back to the store while you are still within the 14 day remorse period and buy it again when you start getting jealous of all of us who can sit tight without opening our mouths and making fools of ourselves.
Cooled down yet? Hope so.
Comparing a 6.1 platform to a 1.0 platform is a little deceptive.
All of this over a camera application... Yea the current camera application is basic, I agree. It will be updated of course and that's enough for me... And keep in mind that through most of your argument you really aren't differentiating between digital and optical zoom. I can't think of any more than one or two monstrosities that have optical zoom. All the rest is digital, and what is the problem with cropping your photos when you are done taking them, it's exactly the same as a digital zoom, and you can be a little more careless about how centered you shoot when you take the photo. That's the way I've always taken photos... I do agree though, it needs a better feature set in the camera application.
I'm just pointing out that basic camera functionality is fine.
And I don't believe Google is being irresponsible in leaving something to be desired. What if the experts at Cannon/Kodak etc decide to write competing camera applications? We would all win, the apps would be higher quality and more feature rich than anything Google could EVER whip up. Google has left the door open for them to do it...
syrusfrost said:
You sure are full of a lot of WHINE and ***** for an early adopter. Maybe you're just not cut out for this. If you really are going to let this phone turn every post into a slurry of barely legible insults I suggest you take the G1 back to the store while you are still within the 14 day remorse period and buy it again when you start getting jealous of all of us who can sit tight without opening our mouths and making fools of ourselves.
Cooled down yet? Hope so.
Comparing a 6.1 platform to a 1.0 platform is a little deceptive.
All of this over a camera application... Yea the current camera application is basic, I agree. It will be updated of course and that's enough for me... And keep in mind that through most of your argument you really aren't differentiating between digital and optical zoom. I can't think of any more than one or two monstrosities that have optical zoom. All the rest is digital, and what is the problem with cropping your photos when you are done taking them, it's exactly the same as a digital zoom, and you can be a little more careless about how centered you shoot when you take the photo. That's the way I've always taken photos... I do agree though, it needs a better feature set in the camera application.
I'm just pointing out that basic camera functionality is fine.
And I don't believe Google is being irresponsible in leaving something to be desired. What if the experts at Cannon/Kodak etc decide to write competing camera applications? We would all win, the apps would be higher quality and more feature rich than anything Google could EVER whip up. Google has left the door open for them to do it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you 150%... Anyway it is a camera, I dont buy a smart phone for a camera... Do you remember when Windows CE came out???? Sucked... and that was the beginning of Windows on smart phones, now compare it to Android 1.0. There is no comparison with this OS...
Yos025 said:
Agree with you 150%... Anyway it is a camera, I dont buy a smart phone for a camera... Do you remember when Windows CE came out???? Sucked... and that was the beginning of Windows on smart phones, now compare it to Android 1.0. There is no comparison with this OS...
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Click to collapse
So far Android is a hell of a lot better than WM ever was, I can remember rebooting my WM phones several times within the first couple days due to lock ups and low memory issues. So far I have yet to need to reboot the phone for any issues like this. Who cares about the camera, I have never seen a good camera phone, they are just good for taking decent quick photos thats it. Want a good camera buy a real camera.
I personally think they did a great job with Android so far. Just wait, later on people will be asking for a "vanilla" version- which is what we have right now
I also think the camera works as good as any I have ever used on a cell phone. I love the 2 position button, and my real camera doesnt do barcodes either
ranger7424 said:
So far Android is a hell of a lot better than WM ever was, I can remember rebooting my WM phones several times within the first couple days due to lock ups and low memory issues. So far I have yet to need to reboot the phone for any issues like this. Who cares about the camera, I have never seen a good camera phone, they are just good for taking decent quick photos thats it. Want a good camera buy a real camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only time I use my phone camera is actually when I forget mine good camera and I am in a baseball game or something like that... BTW you are right about restarting WM because of low memory issues. It used to drive me crazy... Android is by far more stable... Even keeping 6 apps open at one time
agreed that it could use some more features and that they will be coming. That was kinda the promise of Android from day 1: it's open source so anyone can make anything for it. As an aside, I'm guessing that's a no on that flash/camera app since monday is almost over.
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Please do no not ask how to check firmware?, what is the problem?, ect. For such questions visit thread mentioned below.
This thread is for people who know what is wrong.
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I decided to write this thread to sum up in short form all the most important informations regarding camera modules in Samsung Galaxy S II. Long version of thread where you can find various information is here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1098834&highlight=upgrade.
This thread is the try to make more pressure on Samsung about fixing their problem regarding camera modules.
1. Problem overview
1.1 General overview:
Samsung Galaxy S II has been released in many forms with different camera modules. So far the most problematic module is Samsung's sensor, identified as example:
SLSI_S5K3H2YX_M5MOLSwith firmware marked as SCEF02. (It needs to be told - Fujitsu is overall name of module, particular camera we identify via codes, SC, OM ect - then we can exactly say example Fujitsu\Samsung LSI (Samsung's sensor combined with Fujitsu [additional parts like firmware it is believed]), or Sony sensor). It is complicated way, this is why sometimes you can find some inaccuracies in detailed technical - but general overview is true).
Problematic issues haven't been revealed just now - the Community and users know these issues for long time. So does Samsung.
1.2 Technical overview
Problems with camera modules can be abbreviated to few things:
AutoFocus issues - as we know AutoFocus can greatly improve movies. It is nice feature which unfortunately doesn't work in SGS II as it should. Problems are related to the situations, where:
Often in daily situations AutoFocus works without any need of it. Video is already sharp, but AutoFocus tries to make it better. It just worsen the movie making unnecessary blurs;
In darker areas, nights or moving from dark to bright ground AutoFocus loses stability or even worse completely blurs the movie. Making movie then is completely useless.
AutoFocus is slow. Compared to other phones it is just slower, sometimes really slow - often you can forget making movie of fast moving objects like birds, planes and so on.
FPS issues - these problems are related to the general FPS of movies. SLSI_S5K3H2YX_M5MOLS records slower than it should be. It happens either day or night, depending on the conditions. These conditions are, example:
Moving camera from darker to brighter area and vice versa.
Recording at night.
Red pink spot - this problem makes the pictures and movies having pink, light circle. It happens when you take a photo on the solid grayish, white and other colors area.
Few words are need to be written - it is very interesting that phones equipped by Sony OMEF01 (IMX105) have less problems. Their FPS and general smoothness are better than in S5K3H2YX SCEF02 firmware. But this is not the end - some users in act of desperation and completely lack of Samsung's support loaded Camera firmware (SIEG03) from the other phone - Samsung i997 - which partially fixed problems regarding low frame rates!
These two examples may lead to the conclusion the problem is the only firmware which since phone release, hasn't been fixed for Samsung's module users.
2. Examples of problems
Many users recorded camera behaviour and uploaded it on YouTube. I post few movies to show what Samsung screwed up and didn't want to fix it.
Comparison of SLSI_S5K3H2YX_M5MOLS SCEF02 and Sony (IMX105) OMEF01.
SCEF02
OMEF01
AutoFocus at night with low FPS - is it the way as it should be? For Samsung yes.
Comparison of default system camera (camcorder) and the commercial app.
Here one word to be posted - please notice that the comparison of system application and lgCamera was made at SCEF02 firmware.
Even with such limits like camera firmware which is the bridge for hardware and user's camera software, the lgCamera amateur programmer (with all respect to its Author) could fix few problems and improve the camera!
Samsung is not able to fix it since months!
Also please notice lgCamera has much more functions than stock application - example snow, fall scenes for video mode. If lgCamera author could add working camera modes, what is stopping Samsung doing the same? Laziness.
3. Samsung's behaviour
Unfortunately Samsung Galaxy S II users can't say Samsung is the company which tries to care about customers. Many users have reported such issues long time ago, including myself where I've had replies which mostly were restricted to few laconically sounded sentences. In my case I've contacted Samsung Hotline, Samsung Main Service Center, Local Service Center department and Samsung LSI.
In all cases except Samsung LSI, where I was able to send only 1 mail (my next messages weren't delivered) I informed about issues regarding problems of SGS II. In all cases replies can be shortened, I present their answers:
"I think that you are mistaking us (Samsung Electro-Mechanics) for Fujitsu.,because you are complaining to Fujitsu (it had to be S5K3H2YX). I'd like to recommend that you enter the Fujitsu's website." - Well it is like pong game where everybody bounces the problem elsewhere. Who mounted Fujitsu (It had to be S5K3H2YX) module in the Galaxy? Who wrote the firmware? Samsung! I bought the phone from the Samsung, not Fujitsu, goddammit!
"In case of problems return phone to the service, and if we detect issues, we will replace or repair damaged part." - They are like robots. Everytime say such thing. This will NOT fix the problem because Samsung will just replace S5K3H2YX to another S5K3H2YX. Problem is not in the few users' phones. Problem exist either in ready to mount modules equipped with bad firmware which are delivered to the service centers or just alone firmware!
"We cannot mount the desired module in the phone. We replace things randomly. We're delivered by Samsung boxes with parts and they're not signed they're either Fujitsu (it had to be S5K3H2YX) or Sony." - This was an answer for my question about demand of Sony module replacement instead of faulty S5K3H2YX. Pity.
"All camera modules come to us and pass the Samsung requirements." - This can be reasonable. Technically S5K3H2YX module can be OK. But Samsung put to S5K3H2YX bad firmware which makes problems mentioned earlier!
Overall often I must have waited two weeks for any response. I am still waiting (1.5 month) for response from official Samsung department for my technical question.
Answers from the Main Service Center came to me after 7 days and only because I reminded them about my question and said their competences end at connecting charger to the phone.
It is to be mentioned Samsung released Camera Firmware Upgrade few times. But it didn't fix anything - completely nothing, null, zero. The last update marked at December 02 of 2011 also didn't bring anything.
Samsung just ignores the customers!
4. Possible solution and conclusions
I think more likely problems exist only in bad firmware. The answer ("All camera modules come to us and pass the Samsung requirements.") from the service center gives me to think so, which is reasonable, especially when we know after changing firmware to other problems are partially gone.
Samsung must understand:
What it has been screwed up, needs to be fixed.
Customers shouldn't be abandoned with problems for many long months. Samsung even didn't say a word about.
The longer they do this, the more likely people will turn back to other brands.
If they promoted SGS II as one of the best camera phones, they just lied. At least in current situation.
Such thread wouldn't have been created if Samsung had answered for many amount of complains about Camera work in SGS II.
ATTENTION - For anyone who wants to buy non-shutterning camera module for your own, you can do it. Look at this thread for info: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=28697558
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I hope now it will be easier to spread information about Samsung and its bad customers treat.
Notes:
1. This thread tries to sum up all the most important things related to problem and this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1098834&highlight=upgrade .
2. If you have comments, propositions what I missed, or should add please post it yourself or write what I should add in my post (to save cleanness).
3. I hope we'll get what we have right to.
4. Instead of Fujistu we think about S5K3H2YX which is correct name of Samsung's faulty sensors it seems to.
same issue here and samsung sucks !
I have the same issues. This camera sucks a lot, just like Samsung.
RE
Now that they are creating firmw. Android 4.0. they got time to fix all this if not then they are just fking stupid
Epic comment. Agree with every point. Very disappointed that Samsung let this amazing phone come with such poor video autofocus. Didn't their testers notice this? Someone somewhere in SGS2 development brushed this issue under the carpet. Very shady.
Apple wouldn't have let this happen...
---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 PM ----------
blizzari said:
Now that they are creating firmw. Android 4.0. they got time to fix all this if not then they are just fking stupid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But...but...if they fixed it then nobody would buy the SGS3....
Honestly? They've had nearly a year to fix an issue they knew about. My hopes aren't high on an ICS fix
how ever much i love the sgs 2 i have to agree with this
666fff said:
But...but...if they fixed it then nobody would buy the SGS3....
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Click to collapse
lets say thet have sold 20million devices and like 10 000 have problems with, I dont think they are gonna fix it. I guess it's is easier for them to RMA them than work on the problem which is unfortunate for the affected users
Are you sure an RMA would fix this?
Thx guys, I wouldn't write this without motivation of others in the thread. Together we can try to do something. At least we have better chances than complaining lonely. I'd be nice to interest some GSM portals. If few of them picked up topic, perhaps it would make more pressure. It is customer right to have that he paid for.
NoOneCanHelpMe said:
lets say thet have sold 20million devices and like 10 000 have problems with, I dont think they are gonna fix it. I guess it's is easier for them to RMA them than work on the problem which is unfortunate for the affected users
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately not all users of Fujitsu will complain - because many of them will think it is as it should be. User'd think it is just the phone and it is common. Some of them will not bother also because will buy next phone. I think Samsung counts on it as well.
I am sure every firmware for Fujitsu is one big failure - so I guess there are much more wrong phones than example 10 000. I guess they sold few millions in Europe, at least few hundreds of thousands has such bad firmware.
Well done. Thorough research. But...
You obviously know your stuff, but I would say that the vast majority of users - myself included - do not possess your depth of knowledge, and - myself included again - are happy enough with the camera.
In spite of repeated attempts (well, about four) I cannot reproduce the infamous pink spot. Stuff I film isn't reliant on autofocus so much (does homemade pron count?). As a happy-snapper-point-and-shoot device, this camera is good enough for me.
I won't claim that I speak for the masses, but I'll surmise that the camera quality is not at the top of most users' priority list with regards to this phone. You've certainly convinced me it could be better but unfortunately it's Samsung you need to convince, and that doesn't seem to be going so well...
I have equally strong feelings re the SQ for music - I'm not a genius/supercurio (metaphors AFAIC), but I do know my stuff there, and it still frustrates the squits out of me that Samsung decided that a worse chip than the SGS was the way forward (reason #1 for not buying the Note).
I wish you all the best - maintain the rage!
I had scef02 ehich makes mine fujitsu. Just did an update snd now i have SCEE09
PHONE FW TBEC28. does this help?
Edit: just got it that i actually downgraded my camera. Reverting SCEF02
Sent from outter space using a Gremlin for delivery!
So is SBEF02 affected by the same issue?
well on ics 4.0.3 camera managed to get white balance, better,
it's not perfect, but at least i dont get too orange pictures inside my house
samsung sucks
just do it like me and never ever buy a samsung phone...
mblaus said:
just do it like me and never ever buy a samsung phone...
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Click to collapse
then what is your business here? trolling? go at iphone section or where ever you need to be. we like our Samsung phones.
People should be alerted about camera issues before buying the phone, hope this thread brings solutions.
Yup, this should be sticky!
Alert the people, make them ask Samsung - possibly drop sales a little - make Samsung react -
- admit the problem
- send service procedures and parts to service centers
- in case of customer complaint invite to service center for solution: firmware flash/module change
So easy.
Samsung made billions of dollars on these devices and yet it cant spare few bucks for such programme. Pitty.
500$+ device with broken camera, no ICS (because samsung takes its time breaking it with TW)
I would go Apple way if I knew that.
(joke..)
truly disappointed...if I knew the video recording had this problem I wouldn't have bought the phone
the problem is that they marketed it as the "perfect" phone that has everything unmatched; perfect camera, perfect web browsing, perfect gaming,...etc
also we must note that most (if not all) reviews sites which r the main reference for many people (myself included) before buying a phone NEVER said a word about any camera problem
it's true that not all the phones have the defected module/firmware, but not at least one review site got it?
or is it that samsung sends review units equipped with the perfect stuff and sell the ****ty ones to the masses??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!
to be honest I feel like I fell in a dirty trap made by samsung which is probably laughing its ass off pointing at me right now, which is something I don't like
if samsung doesn't fix the problem with ICS (or any other kind of fix) I'll probably sell the phone and never come back to this company again. not because I can't live without video recording (actually I rarely use it) but because I ABSOLUTELY HATE these marketing methods
The SGS2 is advertised on samsung's website as "Recording & Playback [email protected]" while the SCEF02 firmwares (And other firmwares for the Fujitsu camera module) struggle to record at 30fps, can't something be done about false advertisement?
B3311 said:
Well done. Thorough research. But...
You obviously know your stuff, but I would say that the vast majority of users - myself included - do not possess your depth of knowledge, and - myself included again - are happy enough with the camera.
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Click to collapse
Yes I am really aware of it. For many people it is just the way it is, and they're OK with it, Samsung counts on this too as well
In spite of repeated attempts (well, about four) I cannot reproduce the infamous pink spot. Stuff I film isn't reliant on autofocus so much (does homemade pron count?). As a happy-snapper-point-and-shoot device, this camera is good enough for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm it should happen when you turn camera on the wall, or white paper example. Light conditions are also important.
I won't claim that I speak for the masses, but I'll surmise that the camera quality is not at the top of most users' priority list with regards to this phone. You've certainly convinced me it could be better but unfortunately it's Samsung you need to convince, and that doesn't seem to be going so well...
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Click to collapse
Camera generally is not completely bad. It is not good either. It can be improved adding new functions like it is in lgCamera. But definitely it should have been fixed long time ago to be as advertises say.
suzaku said:
truly disappointed...if I knew the video recording had this problem I wouldn't have bought the phone
the problem is that they marketed it as the "perfect" phone that has everything unmatched; perfect camera, perfect web browsing, perfect gaming,...etc
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Click to collapse
Well camera adverts were in my case quite strong impulse to buy this phone. Most reviews were also "oh ah, orgasm" and it was hard to find any very deep review.
Everything else is OK, but this part is not as to be expected according to the ads and just human understanding.
also we must note that most (if not all) reviews sites which r the main reference for many people (myself included) before buying a phone NEVER said a word about any camera problem
it's true that not all the phones have the defected module/firmware, but not at least one review site got it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is really hard to find long, deep review. I am not surprised. To write it you'd have spent quite long time with the phone, than few days. Reviewers often don't have enough time to do it. Sometimes they are just non-technicians, when they see picture and they liked it, it meant camera was OK
or is it that samsung sends review units equipped with the perfect stuff and sell the ****ty ones to the masses??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not want to generalize and I do not know about SGS II reviews behind-the-scenes actions, but it is quite often practice. It is the same as reviewing other stuff, kitchen hardware, ect. This is why much more often you will get true opinions from real users who say their own impressions. If you were a producer you'd like to send the best what you have to get great rate, when reality can differ. Unfortunately sometimes it is bad for customers.
D3_ said:
The SGS2 is advertised on samsung's website as "Recording & Playback [email protected]" while the SCEF02 firmwares (And other firmwares for the Fujitsu camera module) struggle to record at 30fps, can't something be done about false advertisement?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the only way is to send requests to GSM portals to incentive them looking at such problem. Also Facebook comments and so on. Then we could have had better chances, than now where we know Samsung via hotline doesn't care about anything.
I am going to write within few days to local GSM webs, maybe I'll be lucky.... or not
This might help people eyeing the Z4 Tablet, but are unsure of what positives and negatives there are. Of course, this is highly subjective, but this is my list. It's influenced by my personal competing choices which were the Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 and the Google Pixel C. I'm happy I chose the Sony Xperia Z4 Tablet.
Pros:
Fast SoC (Qualcomm Snapdragon 810)
This is Qualcomm's 2015 flagship SoC and from what I've experienced it's really fast. Android flies. It also runs 64-bit, which it should anyway, but for example Samsung's Tab S2 doesn't. I don't know about the graphical performance as I don't really play games.
'Compatible' SoC (Qualcomm Snapdragon 810)
This opens up the way for optimized-for-specific-SoC apps (like RSBrowser, which is Snapdragon-optimized and significantly faster than stock Chrome/Chromium) and CyanogenMod support, that need documentation/drivers. For example, Samsung's (faster) Exynos SoC's are a black box for developers, which makes things like this very hard and has the result of devs abandoning it.
Big internal storage (32GB)
32GB is plenty of storage for apps and a reasonable amount of media. But that can be stored on the microSD.
microSD capability (up to 128GB)
This is a major benefit for a media consumption device like this, which many devices don't have.
Good multitasking
I could have mentioned 3GB RAM, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Multitasking on the Z4 is pretty darn good. It swtiches quickly and is generally very snappy. My Samsung Galaxy S6 with 3GB RAM has pretty bad RAM management in comparison. I'm still trying to find a custom kernel for it that keeps the phone snappy after 2 days.
Huge screen solution, high ppi on a big screen
2560x1600, 299ppi. On a big 10.1 inch screen. This is wonderful.
16:10 aspect ratio screen
Which is good for widescreen content like movies and dSLR photo's. 16:10 also beats 16:9 for me because of the added screen height.
Screen has natural, accurate colors
Very subjective, but compared to several other screens I've found this one to be superior.
Front facing stereo speakers
A rare thing among Android devices. Good design choice.
Lightweight (~390gr), thin
It's pleasantly light to hold.
NFC, notification LED, GPS, vibration motor
These features are often overlooked, but are important to me. I use NFC for LastPass, the (multicolor!) LED with LightFlow to see what exactly is asking my attention when in standby, vibration to still be notified when I want the tablet to be silent and GPS for the occasional navigation need or social app check-in.
Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0
Another nice bonus, which isn't mentioned much. Quick Charge makes a major difference to charging speed. Needs a compatible charger though.
Big battery (6000mAh)
Can't yet say battery life is amazing, because I'm using it a lot and crank the screen brightness up quite high so don't know what to expect. Reviewers seem to agree it's great though.
Bootloader can be unlocked (so the road is open for rooting)
No waiting for an exploit if you're OK with going this route. Just follow Sony's instructions and you'll have root in no time.
Marshmallow announced
Should come January '16 I heard, but these things always get delayed :| At least it's coming.
AOSP commitment by Sony
Sony's Open Device Program is nice and all, but their sources are a bit troublesome and don't seem to produce functional ROMs. Still, Sony's stance on it might bode well for future things.
Water-/dustproof
I don't care much myself, but it's a nice bonus. At least it takes some worries away (dropping liquids on it, no fear for dust particles between the screen and the glass).
Keyboard dock option
Nice for when you want to use a physical keyboard that is fully compatible and is also attachable. I use a 3rd party BT keyboard, but I'm constantly fighting with fixing incompatible button mapping stuff.
Important root-specific things that work
These things are not guaranteed to work or be available on any rooted device, and are pretty major in adding possibilities, so I consider them pros to be working on the Z4T:
Xposed Framework
For most people anyway (Some are having issues). This is a thing to be happy about, because if it didn't, chances are it wouldn't be fixed anytime soon because of the small user/dev base. Xposed opens up many possibilities which really enhance a device. To me it's a selling point.
Native KCAL support
Another Qualcomm exclusive. I believe this is actually fully present on the stock ROM, but not fully controllable (limited to RGB in the Settings menu). KCAL support enables you to tweak various image parameters, like RGB, saturation and contrast with a tool like Color Control or Kernel Adiutor. It's pretty great and you don't see it often.
Cons:
SoC might overheat in extreme circumstances
Haven't had any problems myself, and I stress the tablet pretty hard, but I've read some reports about issues. At least of a guy bringing the tablet to the beach. It's mostly just people saying it's fine, even with heavy usage.
Speakers are lacking in bass
No surprise, but it's still a letdown.
Bad low-light camera performance, no flash
Picture quality in low light is disturbingly bad. Having no flash makes this unusable in those situations. Not a big deal for me personally, I don't take pics with a tablet.
Screen isn't that bright
Compared to several others, the screen isn't that bright and needs to be cranked up pretty much, even indoors. Outdoors, this is a problem. The big screen reflectiveness doesn't help either. Indoors it fine, it just that the needed high brightness level eats battery.
Screen lacks deep blacks
This is compared to (S)AMOLED, specifically. Those screen blacks are amazing and darker colors are also good for battery on those screens. IPS screens just don't have that. Using dark themes won't help battery life on the Z4T, it may even be worse with them.
Stock charger isn't Quick Charge 2.0
Come on, Sony.
No hardware navigation buttons
This is a real PITA for me because this requires Android's soft keys / navigation bar which take up valuable screen space. This is especially problematic in landscape mode on this 16:10 ratio in which you'll want every screen height you can get. Fortunately, this can be overcome by tools like GMD Full Screen Immersive Mode (with full screen keyboard typing restrictions so you'll have to switch back to type :S) combined with All in One Gestures, both of which don't reqquire root. Better yet is a build.prop edit that declares to Android the tablet has hardware buttons, removing the soft keys entirely, while keeping the ability to type anywhere. I navigate using All in One Gestures, because GMD GestureControl sometimes stops working. Which isn't very nice when you don't have navigation keys
No user-land root exploit (yet)
Because of this, you'll need to unlock the bootloader to gain root access. Which will destroy your TA partition, which will in turn remove Sony-proprietary functions. Which I personally don't use and don't see much use for anyway. Also, unlocked bootloader can't be undone without Sony noticing, so as a non-EU citizen you'll possibly have warranty issues.
Small user/dev community
Not many people own a Z4 Tablet (bad availability in the US and it's expensive) and because of this, there's next to no development for it. Luckily, we have @AndroPlus who's made a custom kernel and ported TWRP (which unfortunately has a bug that keeps us from restoring the system partition from a backup). @DHGE worked on root, which made it possible in the end I think. Still, custom ROMs would be nice. Also, if you run into device-specific problems, there's not many others that can help, because you're either the only one or one of very few who have that problem.
It's expensive
The price is very high and a bit hard to justify.
What I miss:
Wireless charging
This is sooo convenient. It also spares the precious MicroUSB port, which is used for charging, data-transfer, USB-OTG and adb/fastboot. If it breaks, you're done.
Removable battery
Batteries do not have eternal life, so eventually it will be completely dead. Which will render the tablet dead as well.
Any thoughts, questions, additions or critique is welcome.
jelbo said:
[*]Small user/dev community
Not many people own a Z4 Tablet (bad availability in the US and it's expensive) and because of this, there's next to no development for it. Luckily, we have @AndroPlus who's made a custom kernel and ported TWRP (which unfortunately had a bug that keeps us from restoring the system partition from a backup). @DHGE worked on root, which made it possible in the end I think. Still, custom ROMs would be nice. Also, if you run into device-specific problems, there's not many others that can help, because you're either the only one or one of very few that have that problem.
.
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Click to collapse
Hello jelbo. Let's discuss about it. First of all, our tablet is not alone with some sort of problem. z3+ and z5 devices are the same story. I don't really understand how can we have aosp sources but not to have its rom. So what the problem, some building problem, or is it true that aosp roms works without working sensors? People give different feedback. Did you try some aosp rom? I just want to cook aosp rom in ubuntu.
alex009988 said:
Hello jelbo. Let's discuss about it. First of all, our tablet is not alone with some sort of problem. z3+ and z5 devices are the same story.
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Click to collapse
Yes, they're similar. Which actually makes me think about a positive point as development for those devices can also benefit Z4T owners. For example @[NUT]'s efforts may eventually reach us, or when an Xperia user-land exploit is found, it will likely be shared among different devices.
I don't really understand how can we have aosp sources but not to have its rom. So what the problem, some building problem, or is it true that aosp roms works without working sensors? People give different feedback. Did you try some aosp rom? I just want to cook aosp rom in ubuntu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not too sure about the reasons, but what I've seen is that 1) the Sony sources are/have been a bit buggy/messy 2) not many people compile ROMs from it (I've only seen 2 XDA users and the FXP Team).
I haven't yet dared to flash any AOSP build because I've been too busy on getting stock rooted to my liking and troubleshooting my Xposed issues and I don't want to interrupt that. It seems to be quite easy to flash ROMs though, it's either a TWRP flashable .zip, Flashtool flashable .tft or fastboot flashable .bin files.
I'm also curious about the mixed reports about 'sensor stuff not working' and 'everything works fine' on Sony-sourced AOSP builds, but so far no-one has answered my or your questions about it. Seems we'll have too find out ourselves at some point Best leave that part of questions and discussion in their respective threads to keep things organized.
Nice summary, thanks for the effort; its clear and concise.
jelbo said:
it's either a TWRP flashable .zip,
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Click to collapse
I think free xperia team jeer at us cause twrp has a serious bug and it can't flash any roms for the time being whereas we can see exactly .zips at their site.
Interesting, had they even tested themselves what they uploaded
jelbo said:
Yes, they're similar. Which actually makes me think about a positive point as development for those devices can also benefit Z4T owners. For example @[NUT]'s efforts may eventually reach us, or when an Xperia user-land exploit is found, it will likely be shared among different devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've put XZDualRecovery on 'feature freeze' for 2.8 well over a year ago, because it needs some work to keep it working on the ever changing Android eco-system. As a consequence, I also stopped adding devices to the supported devices list. For XZDR 2.9 things will change and I will start adding devices again, remember that I am just on my own, from time to time I have a helper but they generally drop out after a while and I'm on my own again after that... I have a busy real life and a very busy job, which consumes most of my energy, leaving only little amounts of it for use on the XZDR development unfortunately... and I have big plans with it which I'd rather deploy sooner then later.
As security features increase, so do the difficulties to keep XZDR working properly... For the Z3+/Z4/Z5/M4 Aqua it is dm-verity, which throws a tantrum once the system partition is modified, which in turn causes a reboot (and with that a bootloop). This behavior has hampered the Stock Based custom ROM development and made it generally impossible to root the device...
A backup-ta with a built-in root exploit (similar to the XZDR installer) to allow a backup of the TA partition would kick-start the development for these models. People don't mind unlocking their devices but do mind losing their warranty on a 500-700 euro device... so most of them wait for the possibility to backup their TA partition.
Oh, and to actually participate in this topic:
I have to say the Z4 tablet takes my fancy and tics just about all the boxes of things I like about tablets... I own a Xperia Tablet Z, well, the misses has it now and I can 'occasionally' touch it :silly: and I have been looking for a new tablet to actually use myself
I don't have the funds to purchase a TabZ4, but I would really like to have one with the keyboard dock
[NUT] said:
Oh, and to actually participate in this topic:
I have to say the Z4 tablet takes my fancy and tics just about all the boxes of things I like about tablets... I own a Xperia Tablet Z, well, the misses has it now and I can 'occasionally' touch it :silly: and I have been looking for a new tablet to actually use myself
I don't have the funds to purchase a TabZ4, but I would really like to have one with the keyboard dock
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Click to collapse
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
@jelbo, where in NL do you live? Did you root your TabZ4 yet?
---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------
alex009988 said:
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am assuming that custom ROM's will come as soon as there is a viable way to flash them
I wonder why @AndroPlus wasn't able to fix the TWRP mount issues yet...
alex009988 said:
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty confident CM will support the 'karin' at some point. Many other Sony phones/tablets are officially supported.
[NUT] said:
@jelbo, where in NL do you live? Did you root your TabZ4 yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll tell you in a PM Yeah, I've unlocked my bootloader and rooted it. I couldn't restrain myself anymore It's so much better now. Just some littles gripes left that'll be fixed sooner or later.
Well, I am assuming that custom ROM's will come as soon as there is a viable way to flash them
I wonder why @AndroPlus wasn't able to fix the TWRP mount issues yet...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time restraints, who knows? He did post a v11 version of the kernel some days ago though @dl12345 who greatly helped him getting TWRP to work, may be able to fix it, but he hasn't been around. You can follow some technical details about it in the AndroPlusKernel thread.
It's just /system/ that cannot be restored though. Which is bad, but you can get out of a bad situation pretty quickly with restoring /data/ and using Helium/Titanium Backup, I think. Unless you really fried the ROM and need your /system/ back, then you can only go the flashtool route now
jelbo said:
I'm pretty confident CM will support the 'karin' at some point. Many other Sony phones/tablets are officially supported.
I'll tell you in a PM Yeah, I've unlocked my bootloader and rooted it. I couldn't restrain myself anymore It's so much better now. Just some littles gripes left that'll be fixed sooner or later.
Time restraints, who knows? He did post a v11 version of the kernel some days ago though @dl12345 who greatly helped him getting TWRP to work, may be able to fix it, but he hasn't been around. You can follow some technical details about it in the AndroPlusKernel thread.
It's just /system/ that cannot be restored though. Which is bad, but you can get out of a bad situation pretty quickly with restoring /data/ and using Helium/Titanium Backup, I think. Unless you really fried the ROM and need your /system/ back, then you can only go the flashtool route now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
* [NUT] pokes @AndroPlus to join this conversation.
Due to lack of time on my side to read the entire topic, what exactly fails when restoring system?
@jelbo, do you have his kernel installed (a.k.a. have you unlocked your bootloader)?
[NUT] said:
* [NUT] pokes @AndroPlus to join this conversation.
Due to lack of time on my side to read the entire topic, what exactly fails when restoring system?
@jelbo, do you have his kernel installed (a.k.a. have you unlocked your bootloader)?
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Click to collapse
Yes and yes. Basically anyone here who's rooted their tablet is running AndoPlusKernel and have manually unlocked their bootloader.
jelbo said:
Yes and yes. Basically anyone here who's rooted their tablet is running AndoPlusKernel and have manually unlocked their bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see, that un-complicates testing a lot
Gotta say... amazing tablet all together and the first device that i havent seen the mighty snapdragon handwarmer throttle from heat in. I kept roasting it for about 3 hours with simpleplanes and PC minecraft (boardwalk app) and it didnt lose any performance just got a bit hot on the back middle. I find the battery life to be good enough for a day of being on and off watching youtube and occasional gaming but i do keep screen brightness on auto at all times and features such as BT NFC and GPS off. Also a app that i think the tablet should have from factory: OGYoutube, you can have floating resizeable youtube above other apps or play in background or with screen off and download in mp4 or mp3.
I'd picked up a Z4T about 4 months ago to replace two different devices, my aging and finally dead cell phone (I hung on to my old Samsung S3 for way too long), and my laptop, which is a still functional but extraordinarily heavy beast of a 17" macbook - about 6 years old on its own as well. What can I say, they were still working so why buy new?
I have to say I'm very glad I made the purchase. I picked up a SBH52 handset to make phone calls more convenient, and splurged on the sony docking kb for the added ruggedness of using it as a "case" - which it does like a champ. Calls are nice and clear, and I've had pretty much no troubles - aside from some occasional static when using the handset (which I owe to the handset itself being a bit flaky). Even with an unlocked BL, remote play on my PS4 still works, only the Bravia screen mirroring to my TV is kaput. It serves very well as a laptop for those like me that need something lightweight for overnight trips, let with a big enough screen to be able to remote desktop troubleshoot back to the main office.
Would this replace every computer I own? Obviously not. I still own a high end desktop for videos, games, and intense word processing (the sony kb is just a bit small if you were attempting to write a novel for example); and my PS4 for console games; but for light end use and for traveling, it's almost the perfect laptop replacement. And as a combo cellphone laptop? I couldn't ask for better. My overall data usage has also dropped, because I'm using far more wireless on this device (I want to make sure it's connected for the stability if nothing else), but I can always drop out to a cell connection if no wireless is available - or if I don't feel like paying the stupid prices at the hotel the convention is being held at.
Now for the Cons:
I've really only got two, one of which was mentioned here. The damn thing is not cheap. Since I live in the states, the LTE version is not available directly. You need to pick up an international version from amazon or another reputable source. Hence the reason I have a kb with extra non-english symbols on it. Not that I mind, but it confuses some people when they look at it. When I picked mine up, the tablet kb and handset ran about $900 US all together. so not something you want to accidentally brick, or drop, or leave behind in a restaurant....
The second one is convenience. Given that it is a tablet - and a fairly large one, most people aren't going to go the phone replacement route like I did. You can't exactly just slip it into your pants pocket. And since the handset is BT, you can't exactly leave the tablet in the car and just use the handset inside most restaurants either (unless you park really close to the building). I'll often leave mine at home if all I do is run to the store for a dozen eggs or something, just because it's easier not to pack it up. But then half an hour of being unconnected and out of touch doesn't bother me - it might bother some though.
So there you have it, a much less technical review, from yet another satisfied user.
begalund said:
I'd picked up a Z4T about 4 months ago to replace two different devices, my aging and finally dead cell phone (I hung on to my old Samsung S3 for way too long), and my laptop, which is a still functional but extraordinarily heavy beast of a 17" macbook - about 6 years old on its own as well. What can I say, they were still working so why buy new?
I have to say I'm very glad I made the purchase. I picked up a SBH52 handset to make phone calls more convenient, and splurged on the sony docking kb for the added ruggedness of using it as a "case" - which it does like a champ. Calls are nice and clear, and I've had pretty much no troubles - aside from some occasional static when using the handset (which I owe to the handset itself being a bit flaky). Even with an unlocked BL, remote play on my PS4 still works, only the Bravia screen mirroring to my TV is kaput. It serves very well as a laptop for those like me that need something lightweight for overnight trips, let with a big enough screen to be able to remote desktop troubleshoot back to the main office.
Would this replace every computer I own? Obviously not. I still own a high end desktop for videos, games, and intense word processing (the sony kb is just a bit small if you were attempting to write a novel for example); and my PS4 for console games; but for light end use and for traveling, it's almost the perfect laptop replacement. And as a combo cellphone laptop? I couldn't ask for better. My overall data usage has also dropped, because I'm using far more wireless on this device (I want to make sure it's connected for the stability if nothing else), but I can always drop out to a cell connection if no wireless is available - or if I don't feel like paying the stupid prices at the hotel the convention is being held at.
Now for the Cons:
I've really only got two, one of which was mentioned here. The damn thing is not cheap. Since I live in the states, the LTE version is not available directly. You need to pick up an international version from amazon or another reputable source. Hence the reason I have a kb with extra non-english symbols on it. Not that I mind, but it confuses some people when they look at it. When I picked mine up, the tablet kb and handset ran about $900 US all together. so not something you want to accidentally brick, or drop, or leave behind in a restaurant....
The second one is convenience. Given that it is a tablet - and a fairly large one, most people aren't going to go the phone replacement route like I did. You can't exactly just slip it into your pants pocket. And since the handset is BT, you can't exactly leave the tablet in the car and just use the handset inside most restaurants either (unless you park really close to the building). I'll often leave mine at home if all I do is run to the store for a dozen eggs or something, just because it's easier not to pack it up. But then half an hour of being unconnected and out of touch doesn't bother me - it might bother some though.
So there you have it, a much less technical review, from yet another satisfied user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing
So I am coming to this device from the Nvidia Shield Tablet and I love the device thus far for all of the positive reasons mentioned. Also with respect to screen brightness listed as a con my own experience is that it is much better than what I was coming from.
The battery life is truly great with this device and my needs are small when it comes to the development area. I simply need it to be rooted because I prefer to remove all of googles garbage that I don't use and rooting and bootloader unlock was very simple.
All in all I am really liking this device, had it about 10 days now. I have the LTE version but only because I may use it at some point.
Overall very pleased with the device so far.
ThePhoneGeek said:
So I am coming to this device from the Nvidia Shield Tablet and I love the device thus far for all of the positive reasons mentioned. Also with respect to screen brightness listed as a con my own experience is that it is much better than what I was coming from.
The battery life is truly great with this device and my needs are small when it comes to the development area. I simply need it to be rooted because I prefer to remove all of googles garbage that I don't use and rooting and bootloader unlock was very simple.
All in all I am really liking this device, had it about 10 days now. I have the LTE version but only because I may use it at some point.
Overall very pleased with the device so far.
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Click to collapse
I was seriously considering the Shield because of the dev scene and the price. What made you switch?
jelbo said:
I was seriously considering the Shield because of the dev scene and the price. What made you switch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The device itself just isn't very efficient on battery and I needed something with a slightly larger screen. It does ok but it's really designed more as a gaming device IMO which wasn't what I needed. Also the specs are a bit outdated now.
I noticed in the op that he said being a non eu customer when unlocking bootloader they will notice. Im an eu user, does this mean that they wont notice if I try claim warranty after bootloader unlock? I havent unlocked yet but I was getting slow WiFi and disconnections. I really want root but im not sure about this WiFi issue I set the WiFi to turn off at sleep and it seems better also the issues are caused less im concerned what would you guys do? ive sent it off to Sony once already they said nothing was wrong with wifi. Can someone help me decide? Much appreciated, many thanks.
Has there ever been a reason as to why we do not have the ability to record in 60FPS? The fricking LGG2 could record in 60fps... Why do we not have that ability? Is it as stupid of a reason as google puts no effort into the camera app? No doubt the hardware is capable.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
I found this...looks like they have no intention of ever enabling it. - https://code.google.com/p/android/i...c=ID Type Status Owner Summary Stars Modified
good Q
Really wish they would enable it, for the life of me I can't understand why wouldn't they.
Is there really no mod or custom rom that could enable it? Even 720p 60fps would be fine.
Because Google is a cash-starved corporation, and has nearly no money, so they can't spare a programmer the 15 minutes it would take to program a fix.
But they *can* afford to pay their developers a lot more than 15 minutes to dream up excuses why they are going to ignore all common sense, and simply refuse to fix it, as is demonstrated in @JeffDenver 's link above. They now spend most of their money and time studying whether three dots or three lines makes a better icon, and other such important matters.
See? Makes perfect sense. Google has become Microsoft, their internal structure so gummed-up, half-baked, and completely lacking in self-awareness, that common sense can no longer be accepted as a reason to fix anything.
If that sounds sad, that's because it is.
Try opencamera, set it to.record 60 fps
So I have been talking with some friends, and I am going to go ahead with a KickStarter for a modular phone.
Now before you say: "That has been tried", you are right. However, Project Ara and Phonebloks were just TOO out there. The engineers that thought those projects were a good idea need to be beat -- but I digress.
What I have in mind is a little more like a PC. You have a case (shell), you have RAM, and CPU/GPU, power supply (battery)
In the shell, you get the cameras, touch sensor, screen, choice of single or dual batteries.
The only components that will be replaceable are:
* CPU (which has the GPU and modem)
* NAND
* Battery
Basically the idea is that you pick a "shell" that you like:
* 5" / 5.5" / 6" (OLED / LCD)
* Camera choices [insert here]
* Single or dual battery
* Single or dual SIM
etc
CPU/GPU
* SD820
* SD835
* SD845
NAND
* 16gig
* 32gig
* 64gig
* 128gig
These are just examples... The purpose of this post is to get ideas on what YOU want. There can only be so many choices, or manufacturing would be a nightmare.
The important part is that you would be able to UPGRADE. Say a SD855 comes out, you don't throw / sell your whole phone, you just pull out the CPU/GPU module and replace it.
So, give me some ideas as to what should be in the shell. IP67 / IP68 will probably not be possible. I don't know enough to say one way or the other right now, but assume it isn't.
Again, this is JUST hardware, don't worry about the software side of things. I will outline what I have in mind, in the next post, along with how security will be handled. Suffice it to say, I will take what I have learned about POSSIBLE holes, and close them. From the factory, the phone will be the more secure than the iPhone, but more importantly, if YOU want to control that security, you will be able to. More to come when I finish crafting up the software / security post.
-- Brian
So, software and security, how can you eat your cake and have it too?
By default, the phone will come locked. It will use an RSA key that is kept under lock and key. There will be no traditional download mode, or recovery. There will be no adb, no fastboot.
When you boot the phone, the only thing you will get is the OS. So let's say a kernel exploit comes along, or something like Janus that allows you to modify a signed app -- there is no way to install it because you won't even have a terminal. All thanks to SELinux. But OK, someone finds some exploit to modify system -- it is write protected at the hardware level.
I have had a LOT of time to think about how to seal every last hole in Andorid, but, I will be consulting with actual security experts to make sure nothing is missed. I mean look at the Switch, if you have the right hardware you can use attack vectors that you might not think of from a "closed box" mentality -- I want to avoid those as well.
So, how do you get control of YOUR phone?
When the phone boots, you will be required to input a PIN, password, key (I am not sure about the technical details on this one yet) that will give you access to an unlock port. In the future, if you want to unlock your phone, you will go to a website just like you do to unlock carrier free LG phones, and download a file that is unique to your phone. This will NOT void your warranty. You will then use this file, along with your (pin, password, key) to unlock your phone.
It will be done this way for a couple of reasons. Before getting the file, you will be made aware that your phone's security is now YOUR responsibility. If you leave it unlocked, then anyone that has physical access to it can install pretty much whatever they want.
Once unlocked, you will have access at the PBL level. If you just want root, you can flash a vendor supported version of TWRP (no point in reinventing the wheel), you will then be able to flash a vendor supported kernel that will allow you to modify system. Viola -- you have root.
So how do you secure your phone again? You will have the ability to install your own RSA key. There will be three modes that the phone will run in:
* Fully secure stock from factory
* Fully unlocked
* Relocked with YOUR key.
This last mode will have two modes:
* Hybrid - all the firmware is still verified by the factory key, but boot and system are verified with your key.
* Developer - all the firmware needs to be signed with your key.
Tools will be provided to make this very easy, but at the end of the day, if you have an unlocked phone, security is up to you.
So how about OTA updates? They will only be available on a factory locked phone. Once the phone is unlocked, you will have to download updates yourself. If you have installed your own keys, then you will be able to sign the updates. This allows you to keep your phone locked. If you have a fully unlocked phone, then you can just flash the unsigned updates.
By updates, so far I have been referring to just the firmware, not the OS. So what about the OS?
From the factory, the phone will ship with bone stock Android. As long as you don't install another ROM, you will be able to update your OS as well.
So what if you want to install another ROM? Have at it, but you can no longer take OS updates -- but you can take firmware updates.
So what about third party ROMs? It is always a bit of a pain to get a ROM running a new phone because vendors don't want to help -- we will. We will have a development community run by our programmers for the specific purpose of helping to get a ROM ported.
So you don't want to run Android? Fine, again, you will be able to have access all the way from the PBL. You can't modify the PBL -- that is on the CPU, but the first thing that the PBL loads is the XBL, and you will be able to run whatever you want.
So how do we get this past the FCC? Modem firmware will be the one no no. Sorry, that is just life. Take it up with the FCC. The thing is, you will have no reason to modify, or install different modem firmware. From the factory, all bands will be available, so you gain nothing.
If all of this sounded to technical, then I can sum it up with -- the phone will be yours. Do as little or as much as you want with it. Just know that from the factory, it will be the most secure phone ever made -- but also, even if you modify it, YOU can KEEP it secure.
-- Brian
Reserved for FAQ
runningnak3d said:
snip-- Brian
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So what do we do, donate a certain amount of money? If that's the case, is it fair to say this would need about 100k to get going? I know China can manufacture things really cheap. Though I think there is much more too it.
Also I want to see a quad DAC. Dual speakers, Dolby Atmos. Refresh rate of 120 like the Razer phone. 4gb of ram. SD card slot. Official XDA Android with XDA labs baked in.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
I am willing to donate too ☺
BROKEN1981 said:
So what do we do, donate a certain amount of money? If that's the case, is it fair to say this would need about 100k to get going? I know China can manufacture things really cheap. Though I think there is much more too it.
Also I want to see a quad DAC. Dual speakers, Dolby Atmos. Refresh rate of 120 like the Razer phone. 4gb of ram. SD card slot. Official XDA Android with XDA labs baked in.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
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I don't want any app baked into my OS that is not mandatory for the phone to work.
Going along the lines of what has been done on the v20, including a 3.5mm jack would be sweet. So many phones are getting rid of them and they are still a very useful port. Also a nice dac and amp of some sort to output great audio would be awesome. If possible, up the capacity of the battery from the v20's 3200 mAh. It just isn't enough in some cases.
toastyp said:
Going along the lines of what has been done on the v20, including a 3.5mm jack would be sweet. So many phones are getting rid of them and they are still a very useful port. Also a nice dac and amp of some sort to output great audio would be awesome. If possible, up the capacity of the battery from the v20's 3200 mAh. It just isn't enough in some cases.
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Thankfully, a DAC implies that there is an analog audio jack. Otherwise, what are you converting? I mean, it's not technically a rule because you could do something insane (and proprietary) with the USB-C port, but why?
I would like to see a quad DAC and 120hz screen. A back power button with the fingerprint scanner would also be nice
Since most people here are going to be V20 owners, I think the V20 chassis is a solid starting point. Ignoring all the hypothetically changeable hardware components, what we have left to consider are a screen, fingerprint reader, A/V options, port connectivity, camera, and aesthetic design considerations.
Personally, I would just clone the V20 and make the main and secondary screens OLED. I think the curved corners that have become the rage on newer phones are stupid (We spent over a decade getting away from rounded corners in UI design, and now people want them physically on their screens? FOH), but the screen must be 18:9 if those are going to make an appearance. Some people might prefer the 3.5mm jack on top, but it has no practical effect on me either way. Stereo speakers could be a consideration, but I don't use phone speakers for music playback.
Apart from that, I have a hard time thinking of other hardware features or predicting what hardware features may catch on in the future.
VZW compatibility
Implementing the volume rocker on the back instead of the side is a must. It'd add a touch of originality again since LG decided to join the bandwagon
Edit: and adding an extra hardware button we can map. Like how you can map the Bixby button on the galaxies
Always wondered why know one attempted to do this years ago, upgradable like a pc.
But i think you can go one step further and give a choice of screens also OLED or LCD since you say you have the software side covered then implementing different screens but the same size would be easy.
in the shell i guess a dedicated dac, ear phone jack,
Would this be modular as In DIY upgradable nand/cpu or would it be made to order.
I see alot of brickwalls as you cannot simply order a snapdragon 835 online in single digits....so im guessing this is made to order to your preference.
There a companys where you can do this but the quantity is in the hundreds where you make to order slap your logo on.
Not really sure what the aim is?
Zyker019 said:
Implementing the volume rocker on the back instead of the side is a must. It'd add a touch of originality again since LG decided to join the bandwagon
Edit: and adding an extra hardware button we can map. Like how you can map the Bixby button on the galaxies
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would never buy a device with volume on the back. It makes no sense.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
Software post updated, and I will update the FAQ, and hardware sections ASAP. To address some of the posts so far, yes, it WILL have a 3.5mm analog jack. I need to do some research, but I may add the DAC as a replaceable part.
@goulash2011 Yea, purchasing quantity is something I am working on.
This is a build to order phone, but it will be up (or downgradeable).
-- Brian
Umm well, I am not sure why this didn't turn up in my first searches for modular phones: https://www.fairphone.com/en/our-goals/design/
If you read their site, it sound like I ripped this post straight from it. I didn't. They have the exact idea, but it appears that they are having some issues with demand (you have to get on a waiting list). Also, the modules haven't been updated in a while. If nothing else, it proves it can be done, I am going to contact them and try to find out when they plan on (or if they do) releasing an SD835 module, and for that matter a 2k screen.
They actually went above and beyond what I had in mind for modules... if you have the time, their site is a good read. They are also looking to be very open with the software, but it doesn't look like they care as much about security.
-- Brian
This project sounds really cool and I have got a few ideas for the cameras sensors:
OV12890 - 1.55 µm / 12MP / 240fps /1080p / 60fps 4K 1/2.3"
This is an Omnivison sensor (probably cheaper than an IMX) which is basically a carbon copy of the IMX 378 with bumped up fps in video. I know these are FPS in perfect hardware conditions, but with a snapdragon 835 and native support for HDR this camera may be one of the best in a smartphone from a hardware perspective.
OS08A10 - 2 µm / 8MP / 120fps 1080p / 60fps 4K / 1/2"
I know this is a bit of a stretch, the sensor is very large in the smartphone industry but i am sure you can make space for it. Just imagine coupled with a low aperture lens the low light shots and videos from this thing .
IMX230 - 1.12 µm / 21MP / 60fps 1080p / 30fps 4K / 1/2.4"
This Sony IMX sensor may not seem too impressive but the photos are packed with detail especially when paired with Googles HDR algorithm, from a software standpoint this can be the perfect ratio of pixel size to MP, so you can sacrifice megapixels although still retain the same detail with a 12MP image with virtually no noise. While the pictures are very nice, videos are mostly just above average with nothing too fancy.
All of these sensors are not really mainstream so prices should not be to bad.
I think you could also make dual camera setups where people can buy basically two sensors in special enclosure, a nice combination would be the OV12890 and the IMX 230 with the OV12890 being the main sensor doing video and primary camera functions while IMX is 230 more in the back end which can enhance the resolution, de-noise images, add more data in RAW shots, maybe be used as a telephoto or wide angle sensor and of course portrait mode.
Another dual setup could be simply two OV12890 sensors with again the second sensor adding portrait capabilities, more RAW data, ect... but a key feature could be true 480fps 1080p slo motion I know this may sound stupid but when the primary sensor takes its first frame the secondary sensor takes its frame from the interval between the time it takes to get to the second frame to be taken which essentially doubles the frames per second, this may be possible but the snapdragon 835 although it may not be able to support this as it is a very stressful workload, you could do what Sony did with XZ Premium with short bursts of slo mo or instead of rendering the image live, it can be done at the end where the software stitches the video together. This can also work in favor for HDR stitching with both sensors taking burst photos giving double the output of a conventional sensor.
That was a very insightful post, and all of it doable. However, I have to find out what problems fairphone is running into:
* Noise on the bus?
* General manufacturing problems
* Money problems? Can't generate enough cash to buy in large enough quantity?
* Patent issues?
My main beef is still software. My G4 runs Oreo just fine, but nooooo LG wants me to buy a V30 if I want Oreo. That is horsesh**
-- Brian
runningnak3d said:
Umm well, I am not sure why this didn't turn up in my first searches for modular phones: https://www.fairphone.com/en/our-goals/design/
If you read their site, it sound like I ripped this post straight from it. I didn't. They have the exact idea, but it appears that they are having some issues with demand (you have to get on a waiting list). Also, the modules haven't been updated in a while. If nothing else, it proves it can be done, I am going to contact them and try to find out when they plan on (or if they do) releasing an SD835 module, and for that matter a 2k screen.
They actually went above and beyond what I had in mind for modules... if you have the time, their site is a good read. They are also looking to be very open with the software, but it doesn't look like they care as much about security.
-- Brian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I see the problem. The mods are a bit expensive, not too many people would be interested, meaning hardly any demand. To keep cost down, you need to involve China. Look at the growing pains of 1+.
I hate to be so negative, but upgradable phones will always be a dead project.
Sent from my LG V20 using XDA Labs
BROKEN1981 said:
I think I see the problem. The mods are a bit expensive, not too many people would be interested, meaning hardly any demand. To keep cost down, you need to involve China. Look at the growing pains of 1+.
I hate to be so negative, but upgradable phones will always be a dead project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not being negative.. Just setting a marketing reality. Which I completely agree with. It's to far and beyond for the current market of things.