Related
what u guys think about the camera on the G1, I think it's pretty good.I had a wing and it's definitely better than that one(not by a blowout but better)but my only problem with it is u can't customize the settings for it like saturation brightness etc... and it takes like 5 seconds to take the picture after u press the button. I also wanted to know if it's better than the iphone camera, I never really messed with the iphone like that so i don't know how the camera is.
the iphone 3g camera i must say is very good and very clear thhe G1 camera is good but you have to be in very well lit areas to get any type of good picture in other wise it will be dark. i personally still use my dash camera because of the auto focus and backlighting
It's slow because the camera button is 2 stage, half way to focus, then all the way to take the picture.
Do you think they will add an app for the camera to fix the lighting, cuz I read from a tmobile rep somewhere that they was gonna release a video recording app for the camera so u can capture video but they took it down and it'll prolly be up soon,tech wise the iphone has a 2.0mp camera and the G1 has a 3.0mp so it should b better.
There is suppose to be an app released through the market on Monday that will do video and flash support. Sounds too good to be true but I really hope it is true.
As far as the camera if you hold the button down half way till you see the green light then take the picture it works really well. As far as adjusting the settings someone just needs to make an app to control it.
megapixels has NOTHING to do with camera quality. I have an old 2 megapixel Canon PowerShot A40 that will run rings around a ton of 5 megapixel crap cameras. You need a good lens and a good sensor, that is it.
The G1 lens is decent for a digital camera and pretty damn good for a camera phone. The downside is that it's a very slow lens and needs a long shutter release to get enough light. That's with any tiny camera though. They either jack up the gain and make the pictures look like crap or they slow down the shutter and if you move or your subject moves, it looks like crap.
I am very impressed that the autofocus can go from about 3" to infinity. I've never had a cameraphone w/ autofocus and it's helpful for taking pictures up close. My Eten X600 couldn't cope with anything less than about 2 feet away.
I am very impressed with the camera hardware. I would like the software to be updated soon though, current software seems incredibly slow and is unable to compensate in low-light situations.
Well if you ask me its disappointing. Camera on dash is ten times better. I know that apps will be made to improve settings options but no zoom, wtf??? I know developers will make an app for it but why on earth was something so basic not included? It seems like they decided to lean on developers a little too much. Seems the developers of this phone threw it together really lazy like and I for one am extremely disappointed. Not in phone itself just the way a lot of stuff works and all the basics missing from g1.
I'm disappointed that a lot of little things were left out like a decent camera app but it seems as though it would be at least another 6 months of work to make everything missing. At least we have stable phones in-hand right now.
Unrelated note: I have only had one phone-related lockup and that's because it couldn't get register on the network on the 10th floor in my downtown office building. Everything else has been 3rd party app related.
stats555 said:
Well if you ask me its disappointing. Camera on dash is ten times better. I know that apps will be made to improve settings options but no zoom, wtf??? I know developers will make an app for it but why on earth was something so basic not included? It seems like they decided to lean on developers a little too much. Seems the developers of this phone threw it together really lazy like and I for one am extremely disappointed. Not in phone itself just the way a lot of stuff works and all the basics missing from g1.
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Click to collapse
Here's my take on Android and the thinking behind it. I think Google intentionally made it in it's current state so we have the choice to upgrade it the way we see fit. It's kind of like when a cook creates a lite cooked rom. We add the apps we want on top of it. Remember they're doing what wm does and are making an os that works on many different handsets. So they probably left out some components they felt that not everyone will utilize, at least not at the moment, such as advanced camera features, virtual keyboard, etc. Over time, once they see what the consumer wants, they'll add such components. Like the virtual keyboard they said in Q1 '09. That'll most likely be pushed up since that's a common complaint for the G1, but is not a priority because we have a keyboard. Now let HTC make Touch HD with Android OS and i bet you'll see that keyboard in a week. Just my take on it
I really hope they do release that camera app come monday! That was be awesome, should compliment the G1 camera.
papito2181 said:
Here's my take on Android and the thinking behind it. I think Google intentionally made it in it's current state so we have the choice to upgrade it the way we see fit. It's kind of like when a cook creates a lite cooked rom. We add the apps we want on top of it. Remember they're doing what wm does and are making an os that works on many different handsets. So they probably left out some components they felt that not everyone will utilize, at least not at the moment, such as advanced camera features, virtual keyboard, etc. Over time, once they see what the consumer wants, they'll add such components. Like the virtual keyboard they said in Q1 '09. That'll most likely be pushed up since that's a common complaint for the G1, but is not a priority because we have a keyboard. Now let HTC make Touch HD with Android OS and i bet you'll see that keyboard in a week. Just my take on it
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I guess but it sounds like a lame excuse if you ask me. Google screwed up and left off basic things by accident. Then people (fanboys) and (Google) use the excuse of letting developers fix the f*cked up OS. Yeah, added stuff is okay but to have to add the basics is just crappy. They just need to admit there were mistakes made (And it is okay! It's a first generation OS!) and quit using the excuse of it's an open platform os and we'll leave that to the developers. What about your developers, Google? What have they done? They implemeted a few ideas with a linux core and made a very basic os for a mobile device. It's good but it's nothing special. I'm not impressed with anything. Most of the wow factor was borrowed from apple, wm, and htc.
They have done nothing inventive. And how open is this new platform? Not very from what I have seen. Developers are charged $25 (albeit not very much money, but still!) to add something on their marketplace store. This discourages freeware and SDK is pain in the ass. Most non-market apps. won't work because they were written with the older SDK. Everytime Google updates something will the SDK change with it? Who knows but they are off to a very iphone-like start to me at least. Sorry to rant, I actually expected worse problems! So far so good but I expected basics were covered, file explorer, camera settings, and so on. Just wish the BS excuses would go away. but then again, maybe the 3rd party developers can fix it,
sino8r said:
I guess but it sounds like a lame excuse if you ask me. Google screwed up and left off basic things by accident. Then people (fanboys) and (Google) use the excuse of letting developers fix the f*cked up OS. Yeah, added stuff is okay but to have to add the basics is just crappy. They just need to admit there were mistakes made (And it is okay! It's a first generation OS!) and quit using the excuse of it's an open platform os and we'll leave that to the developers. What about your developers, Google? What have they done? They implemeted a few ideas with a linux core and made a very basic os for a mobile device. It's good but it's nothing special. I'm not impressed with anything. Most of the wow factor was borrowed from apple, wm, and htc.
They have done nothing inventive. And how open is this new platform? Not very from what I have seen. Developers are charged $25 (albeit not very much money, but still!) to add something on their marketplace store. This discourages freeware and SDK is pain in the ass. Most non-market apps. won't work because they were written with the older SDK. Everytime Google updates something will the SDK change with it? Who knows but they are off to a very iphone-like start to me at least. Sorry to rant, I actually expected worse problems! So far so good but I expected basics were covered, file explorer, camera settings, and so on. Just wish the BS excuses would go away. but then again, maybe the 3rd party developers can fix it,
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I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
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Click to collapse
neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
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Click to collapse
Humm... a camera that can't zoom never heard of one, except those cheap, desposable 35mm cameras. Did I even mention that? Nope... But that is what you can expect from a non-contributing newbie... And btw, we have been modding WM way before you were here or your precious Android OS. Do you even know what basics are? They are what one SHOULD START WITH. Skipping the basics is just foolish. About development, don't forget about WM6.1. They develop their software until it is ready. Alot more things to deal with than Android. As of right now at least. I didn't cry or moan about any release. I rather they get it right before a release. What are you talking about?Why are you quoting me if you didn't read what I wrote?! This is supposed to be a smartphone not basic p.o.s. cellphone. It SHOULD HAVE ZOOM, video recording, and ambience controls. I'm not saying I don't like my new G1... just a little disappointed in the way Google wants the 3rd party developers to do their OWN developers work for them. But this what we get for trusting a search engine to develop a mobile OS, lol! How dare you say WM is locked down?! How is it locked down? We have a WHOLE FORUM THAT WOULD BEG TO DIFFER FROM YOUR STUPID STATEMENT!Go say that in the development and hacking section! What have they been doing for years now! Apple is locked but not Windows Mobile... This is first non-WM device on this forum! You sir, are mildly retarded... to say the least!
sino8r said:
Humm... a camera that can't zoom never heard of one, except those cheap, desposable 35mm cameras. Did I even mention that? Nope... But that is what you can expect from a non-contributing newbie... And btw, we have been modding WM way before you were here or your precious Android OS. Do you even know what basics are? They are what one SHOULD START WITH. Skipping the basics is just foolish. About development, don't forget about WM6.1. They develop their software until it is ready. Alot more things to deal with than Android. As of right now at least. I didn't cry or moan about any release. I rather they get it right before a release. What are you talking about?Why are you quoting me if you didn't read what I wrote?! This is supposed to be a smartphone not basic p.o.s. cellphone. It SHOULD HAVE ZOOM, video recording, and ambience controls. I'm not saying I don't like my new G1... just a little disappointed in the way Google wants the 3rd party developers to do their OWN developers work for them. But this what we get for trusting a search engine to develop a mobile OS, lol! How dare you say WM is locked down?! How is it locked down? We have a WHOLE FORUM THAT WOULD BEG TO DIFFER FROM YOUR STUPID STATEMENT!Go say that in the development and hacking section! What have they been doing for years now! Apple is locked but not Windows Mobile... This is first non-WM device on this forum! You sir, are mildly retarded... to say the least!
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You sure are full of a lot of WHINE and ***** for an early adopter. Maybe you're just not cut out for this. If you really are going to let this phone turn every post into a slurry of barely legible insults I suggest you take the G1 back to the store while you are still within the 14 day remorse period and buy it again when you start getting jealous of all of us who can sit tight without opening our mouths and making fools of ourselves.
Cooled down yet? Hope so.
Comparing a 6.1 platform to a 1.0 platform is a little deceptive.
All of this over a camera application... Yea the current camera application is basic, I agree. It will be updated of course and that's enough for me... And keep in mind that through most of your argument you really aren't differentiating between digital and optical zoom. I can't think of any more than one or two monstrosities that have optical zoom. All the rest is digital, and what is the problem with cropping your photos when you are done taking them, it's exactly the same as a digital zoom, and you can be a little more careless about how centered you shoot when you take the photo. That's the way I've always taken photos... I do agree though, it needs a better feature set in the camera application.
I'm just pointing out that basic camera functionality is fine.
And I don't believe Google is being irresponsible in leaving something to be desired. What if the experts at Cannon/Kodak etc decide to write competing camera applications? We would all win, the apps would be higher quality and more feature rich than anything Google could EVER whip up. Google has left the door open for them to do it...
syrusfrost said:
You sure are full of a lot of WHINE and ***** for an early adopter. Maybe you're just not cut out for this. If you really are going to let this phone turn every post into a slurry of barely legible insults I suggest you take the G1 back to the store while you are still within the 14 day remorse period and buy it again when you start getting jealous of all of us who can sit tight without opening our mouths and making fools of ourselves.
Cooled down yet? Hope so.
Comparing a 6.1 platform to a 1.0 platform is a little deceptive.
All of this over a camera application... Yea the current camera application is basic, I agree. It will be updated of course and that's enough for me... And keep in mind that through most of your argument you really aren't differentiating between digital and optical zoom. I can't think of any more than one or two monstrosities that have optical zoom. All the rest is digital, and what is the problem with cropping your photos when you are done taking them, it's exactly the same as a digital zoom, and you can be a little more careless about how centered you shoot when you take the photo. That's the way I've always taken photos... I do agree though, it needs a better feature set in the camera application.
I'm just pointing out that basic camera functionality is fine.
And I don't believe Google is being irresponsible in leaving something to be desired. What if the experts at Cannon/Kodak etc decide to write competing camera applications? We would all win, the apps would be higher quality and more feature rich than anything Google could EVER whip up. Google has left the door open for them to do it...
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Click to collapse
Agree with you 150%... Anyway it is a camera, I dont buy a smart phone for a camera... Do you remember when Windows CE came out???? Sucked... and that was the beginning of Windows on smart phones, now compare it to Android 1.0. There is no comparison with this OS...
Yos025 said:
Agree with you 150%... Anyway it is a camera, I dont buy a smart phone for a camera... Do you remember when Windows CE came out???? Sucked... and that was the beginning of Windows on smart phones, now compare it to Android 1.0. There is no comparison with this OS...
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So far Android is a hell of a lot better than WM ever was, I can remember rebooting my WM phones several times within the first couple days due to lock ups and low memory issues. So far I have yet to need to reboot the phone for any issues like this. Who cares about the camera, I have never seen a good camera phone, they are just good for taking decent quick photos thats it. Want a good camera buy a real camera.
I personally think they did a great job with Android so far. Just wait, later on people will be asking for a "vanilla" version- which is what we have right now
I also think the camera works as good as any I have ever used on a cell phone. I love the 2 position button, and my real camera doesnt do barcodes either
ranger7424 said:
So far Android is a hell of a lot better than WM ever was, I can remember rebooting my WM phones several times within the first couple days due to lock ups and low memory issues. So far I have yet to need to reboot the phone for any issues like this. Who cares about the camera, I have never seen a good camera phone, they are just good for taking decent quick photos thats it. Want a good camera buy a real camera.
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The only time I use my phone camera is actually when I forget mine good camera and I am in a baseball game or something like that... BTW you are right about restarting WM because of low memory issues. It used to drive me crazy... Android is by far more stable... Even keeping 6 apps open at one time
agreed that it could use some more features and that they will be coming. That was kinda the promise of Android from day 1: it's open source so anyone can make anything for it. As an aside, I'm guessing that's a no on that flash/camera app since monday is almost over.
About a week ago, I sent an email to all the HTC brass inquiring about the 30FPS cap that most of us are familiar with. An hour later, I received a "canned response", from one of their customer service reps assuring me that this was done "on purpose" to maximize battery life as well as enhance the user experience.
Story short, Keith Nowak, presumably a high ranking HTC exec, sent me back an email with a lengthy explanation of why the cap was in place. I was originally going to write a story about it for the blog I work for, however, it just doesn't seem worth it now since the information he's given me is basically the same thing that some of us have speculated. Interestingly enough however, he did retract the battery saving and user experience comments that I was first given.
Anyways, check it out:
Hi Adam-
My apologies for the delay in responding, we were investigating this issue, and I wanted to be sure I understood all of the facts before I responded.
Regarding the 30 FPS limitation on the HTC EVO 4G. This is simply a limitation of the hardware used in the device. The HDMI output that delivers HD content is, as you would expect, very resource intense, and as such, puts a limit on the output that can be used for the main display. However, even though there is a 30 FPS limitation, this is roughly equivalent to what most video content (TV and movies) is filmed in (24-30 FPS), meaning that in the vast majority of cases, this is not going to pose any issues for end users.
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
I am not sure where information regarding “enhancing the user experience” or “maximize battery life” – but if it came from HTC, please let me know, and we will address the issue, as this is not correct information.
Best-
Keith Nowak
HTC
infamousjax said:
Hi Adam-
My apologies for the delay in responding, we were investigating this issue, and I wanted to be sure I understood all of the facts before I responded.
Regarding the 30 FPS limitation on the HTC EVO 4G. This is simply a limitation of the hardware used in the device. The HDMI output that delivers HD content is, as you would expect, very resource intense, and as such, puts a limit on the output that can be used for the main display. However, even though there is a 30 FPS limitation, this is roughly equivalent to what most video content (TV and movies) is filmed in (24-30 FPS), meaning that in the vast majority of cases, this is not going to pose any issues for end users.
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
I am not sure where information regarding “enhancing the user experience” or “maximize battery life” – but if it came from HTC, please let me know, and we will address the issue, as this is not correct information.
Best-
Keith Nowak
HTC
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Click to collapse
That is a downright lie. It is something he is simple overemphasizing about vsync issues with the Epson panel, which will be fixed because the devs here are hard at work.
Sure, it is a dirty hack, but the current method works fine. Completely, smooth and superb 'image quality,' and it makes it LESS choppy.
Hmm, they should just release all their sorce code so the devs here can tear it apart.
..yeahhh..i'm not one to be quick to call bs, but come on! I'm running ffolkes Novatek kernel on Fresh 0.5.3 and again, maybe it is just some "hack"..but bottom line is the difference is night and day! The response time is outta this world!
Sounds to me like he has no tech background, and that response was something that he was told to say. I wouldn't imagine at his position he would know the insides of phones and how they work or can be manipulated.
OP, you should reply back asking why use/waste all the resources on a feature that won't be used on a daily basis (maybe once or twice a month, if at all).
OP, if you do reply back. Consider including a link to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjTo602sQM
That is nothing but improvement in display quality right there.
Video is from this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713311
infamousjax said:
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bull****. I made the video proving it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjTo602sQM
Tell Keith to salvage his credibility he needs to produce an honest answer. Ask him if he wants to see my run Youtube, or an mp4 video, or anything else, to drop me a line. I'll be happy to continue demonstrating how wrong he is.
The topic on HTC's forum is on page 10. Let's make sure it stays on the front page so support realizes it's a huge customer issue.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/94/t/3186.aspx
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
This makes me sad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilx_cpGZczM
TorxT3D said:
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
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Click to collapse
Really? Are you being serious? They are trying to help us, how? First, according to them, they are tying up all the resources due to HDMI, which may be a great feature, but is not going to be used by many at all. Second, yeah, they have been doing a great job so far, RIGHT. I guess that's why the Evo had the light leaks, screen separations, other issues as well with the phone so far like bad wifi signal and poor battery.
If they really want to help, they would have released the source code already.
KERKEDAGAIN said:
..yeahhh..i'm not one to be quick to call bs, but come on! I'm running ffolkes Novatek kernel on Fresh 0.5.3 and again, maybe it is just some "hack"..but bottom line is the difference is night and day! The response time is outta this world!
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Click to collapse
where can i get this "hacked" kernel from and will it kill the camera ?
The last HTC rep I spoke to has assured me that they're working on a fix for the 30FPS cap.
TorxT3D said:
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
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Click to collapse
+1
I am all for better FPS - but even with 30 fps can you honestly tell me you can tell the gears moving better? I can't tell. I have tried both. I went back to another ROM and its not enabled. I can't tell. I get smooth movement. I am not overclocked and my quadrant on 2.1 with no JIT, etc. is around 590.
I get 30fps on gears and 25.1FPS on NeoCore but without seeing those numbers I could not tell the difference between the two in regards to better frames. I have ran both. The only difference for me is the Froyo 2.2 EVOA which is smoother in screen transitions and can multi-task much better in regards to updating and installing severals apps at a time. Otherwise video has yet to create a margin that is noticeable to me.
It has nothing to do with gears moving faster and if you had applied the 30 fps breaking kernel you would see that everything in the os is snappier including scrolling, touch lag etc..
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
jblazea50 said:
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
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Works just fine on the new OTA...
jblazea50 said:
If they really want to help, they would have released the source code already.
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Seriously. We need to just stop asking for a 30FPS cap fix and just keep asking for the source code because honestly, with the source code the devs could just fix most, if not all of this crap already.
jblazea50 said:
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
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I do - I enjoy that game for a while now. I have it loaded on every ROM along with Robo Defense.
What is the BIG difference?
I notice little things about everything so when improvement is made I make comments. But there hasn't been much improvement in that area.
The camera much snappier and the pictures are much better in daylight. I took some great pictures to test at High Resolution and I am impressed with the camera. Before it was just so-so but now some of the pictures of the same images are greatly improved upon for sharpness and color saturation.
See so I do notice differences - perhaps not in the FPS but in other things
To all in this forum. So many have had complaints about so many things to put that statement in perspective Here is a brief list:
Graying pixels (triangles)
Black not true
Color wash out
Color Rendering issues
Emmc Bug
S-Pen Issues
Tablet Mode jacked
Battery Drain Issues
These are the common ones, but you get the idea. What we as moderators really Hate is ALL THE COMPLAINING you throw at the following people......ChainFire, SuperCurio, Flappjaxx, Dagr8, M3dd0g, Sixstringsg, Dr Ketan, NeoBuddy, CM Team, AokpTeam, Gerret, xplodwild, Eybee1970....any all the others I cannot think of right now...(let me know who I missed and Ill add)
The majority of these issues are SAMSUNG hardware issues, a few are not. Stop Telling the Devs about these issues TELL SAMSUNG.......complain to them...and here's how...
The Idea:
I am going to try this and hopefully get everyone's support and contributions. What I am proposing is to post the Samsung issues here in a post and a brief description of what it is and what it is not doing.
Then, I will merge the real Samsung related issues into the 1st and 2nd post so they are itemized clearly. After a few days....
THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART.... I then want all of you in this forum to Tweet the link to this thread to @Samsungmobile..... stating fix these issues Now, or we look to buy something else than Samsung.....
This works, my friend S15274N started #neveragain Samsung when they did not provide timely updates (2.1 to 2.2)... we got their ear. Samsung does not bad press on this Unit especially because they are going to release TMO version on 7-11-12....... So let's kick'em now and get some of their engineers to help us instead of beating on our dev's.
To Recap:
1. Post what you believe to be Samsung hardware/software issues
2. We will merge these into a cohesive/concise list
3. We barrage them with complaint tweets with the link to this thread.
Here is the link to this Thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=27812352#post27812352
Let's do this it's worth a try and we can direct our frustration towards the correct culprits Samsung.
Thanks, Oka1
The List
Known Bugs/Problems
1. Emmc Bug
2. Color Rendering issues
..........A-Banding in Video recording/playback
..........B-Black clipping in videos
..........C-
3. Post Source code for ICS when you release ICS.
4. Provide a "Known and Resolved" bug list that you are presently aware of
5. Battery overheating
6. Hang and FC on Low DPI settings
7. MMS would not send/receive if Data Packet is not enabled. Previously in GB (Galaxy Note only) it was able to do so. I really hope that Samsung fix this issue for all its Android phones.
8. Samsung changed between GB and ICS raised kernel resume time from 650ms to 1000ms - just for the kernel to resume
Desired List:
1. Touch screen adjustment
2. Improve camera software too much banding in lowlight
for now, emmc bug must be the TOP PRIORITY..
all the other issues won't make your phone unusable and cost you motherboard replacement..
+1
Awesome a n7000 user union.
UNITE!
Missing traceability with partial wakelocks and what's really draining your battery. Statistics in native app are tainted/incomplete plus offer no real value in analyzing. Its like a Dilbert comic dashboard, useless.
Varying screen quality, maybe due to drivers : the banding issues with movies
Slow update speed. Samsung kept delaying ICS
ICS not as intended implemented, slow, battery inefficient and has lags.
No low dpi support on native launchers
Low Volume issues on speaker and ringer
Missing exchange contact search functionality
Missing control for apps permissions, like pdroid and lbe
Missing firewall
Missing touchscreen sensitivity setting
Crap update policy. Just make one good rom and not 50+ crap ones per region, per carrier. This will increase update speed, quality too
Missing wipe dalvik cache option
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
The whole idea of choosing Android (in particular Galaxy Series) over iPhone was the ability and ease of flashing firmwares and exploring new horizons. However the EMMC bug is limiting this very activity. Moreover we paid for the premium devices such as Note and millions of these have be sold all over. The EMMC fix should certainly be on TOP most priority. Hope Samsung will be considerate enough to consider this request. Else we all will be forced to re-evaluate our faith in SAMSUNG.
PS:
It hurts to know that google was aware of EMMC issues since 2008 and still SAMSUNG planned to go ahead with faulty chip. Surely Samsung does owe an explanation in-case they fail to find a fix in time!!!
I am in...the Hard brick bug is my priority for now....
LET'S MAKE SOME NOISE...
send this thread to samsung
we have to do something now, enough is enough.
1. Color Rendering, black greying out, black clippings..its been months and nothing done about it.
2. Battery Drain for what?!
It was marketed for its screen and HD experience..and the users are not experiencing that because of the above crap!
3. AND Yeah!! Do us a favor and release updates that are the same and that do not literally vary from one another! QUALITY CHECK!!!
YOU HEAR US SAMSUNG!!!
black clipping issue should be related to the firmware, samsung should release a hotfix for it asap.
http://innovator.samsungmobile.com/bbs/discussion/view.do?boardId=1132&boardName=AndroidBoard&messageId=155754&messageNumber=&messageCategoryId=4&startId=zzzzz~&startPage=1&curPage=1&rowsPerPage=10&searchType=TITLE&searchText=&searchDays=0&searchTitleFlag=false&searchContentsFlag=false&searchRegisterNicknameFlag=false&lastPageFlag=&categoryId=800&parentCategoryId=4&platformId=1&selectOrder=REGISTER_DATE&selectOrderDirection=DESC&searchParameters=%2Fbbs%2Fdiscussion%2Fthread.list.do%3FlistLines%3D10|searchType%3Dtitle|curPage%3D2|selectOrder%3DREGISTER_DATE|selectOrderDirection%3DDESC|messageCategoryId%3D4|&nacode=&listLines=10&searchTextForm=&searchTypeForm=TITLE
Please add to your list the Deep Sleep Problem.
My Note breaks deep sleep pretty much at will. That MUST get fixed.
Thank you for your initiative. It empowers all of us.
The biggest issue I have right now with the phone is the EMMC bug. This needs fixing ASAP.
The was my first Samsung and at the rate Samsung are going, then it's going to be my last !
Black clipping in videos is the biggest issue for me, having to use a app to adjust the contrast thus losing true blacks is not good.
I also believe there is an issue with how flash player works in stock ICS ROMs, Very jerky performance in browser, I don't think it is 100% Adobes fault as I have friends with other devices (Eg HTC Sensation) running ICS 4.0.3 stock ROMs and their playback is silky smooth.
Sent by Galaxy Note
Hallelujah. The best thread I've seen yet and here is my list:
Post ICS upgrade
1. Phone would randomly re-boot.
2. phone would lock up and not respond. Battery removal necessary to re-boot.#
3. eMMc Identified as being faulty.
4. Video recording would stutter at the beginning of each clip.
5. Video playback would frequently fail.
6. Pink Dot on Camera. YES IT IS A BLOODY FAULT. AND YES I DO KNOW HOW TO OPERATE A CAMERA.
7. Google Maps with Navigation would hang and screen would freeze and flicker.
8. Other Apps from Google Play store, certified as compatible with the GSN would hang, freeze, or otherwise cause re-boot.
9. Phone would sometimes get hot, very hot.
10. degraded sound quality, both recorded and playback.
I called Samsung and was not in the slightest bit re-assured by what the agent told me. They sent a plastic pouch with a tiny square of bubble wrap to send it to a service centre. That is not my idea of suitable packaging to protect MY device, and no, I'm not going to patch up their own shoddy performance with my own materials. I have sent my Galaxy Note back to the retailer for a full refund as it is now no longer fit for the purpose.
I would recommend anyone that has a defective device, is to follow the instruction manual to the letter. Make sure your apps are compliant fro the Goggle Play store. If after that, it is still defective, send it back to the point of sale for a full refund, do not accept a replacement, do not accept anything other than your money back. I know this is a PITA BUT, unless Samsung get hurt in the pocket and some truthfulness in the headlines in the press and on the Internet, nothing will get done. Yes I know living without a phone can be a pain, but we ca all live without the 'Note for a while. Do what I have done, get a crappy clam phone from Tesco for a tenner, it gets me by.
You might ask why I'm so militant, well its for two reasons. 1. It's in my genes. 2. I paid top dollar for a flagship product that is not fit for the purpose.
As the OP said, don't hit the Devs. They didn't write the crappy code that doesn't work, they don't work for Samsung either. They didn't instigate the crappy quality control that seems apparent in Samsungs factories, and that of their suppliers. What they do is write apps for you and me, they write code to 'try' and give you an alternative android experience, they try to fix what Samsung should be fixing. They do this all for free. I like free, and I like the Devs. Samsung should stop paying its own coders, and give all that money to xda developers. Maybe then we would have a quality product.
Things you can do to help. Appart from sending your device back to your retailer for your money back (some cant do this I know, but those that can, do it). Tweet epic fail on twitter, do the same on face book and every other social networking site you have. make sure its addressed and or seen by Samsung. It will hurt, particularly when google starts to pick it up in the search engine.
---------- Post added at 10:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 AM ----------
oka1, you have a private message.
also, add to my list above: touch screen sensitivity erratic.
thanks
bigstarrynight said:
1. Phone would randomly re-boot.
2. phone would lock up and not respond. Battery removal necessary to re-boot.#
3. eMMc Identified as being faulty.
4. Video recording would stutter at the beginning of each clip.
5. Video playback would frequently fail.
6. Pink Dot on Camera. YES IT IS A BLOODY FAULT. AND YES I DO KNOW HOW TO OPERATE A CAMERA.
7. Google Maps with Navigation would hang and screen would freeze and flicker.
8. Other Apps from Google Play store, certified as compatible with the GSN would hang, freeze, or otherwise cause re-boot.
9. Phone would sometimes get hot, very hot.
10. degraded sound quality, both recorded and playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange, but I don't have any of this points on my ICS rom...
anonymous572 said:
Strange, but I don't have any of this points on my ICS rom...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really. Its all down to quality control, programming and who made the device components. You will see lots of satisfied guys with fully functioning devices, BUT, there are an awful lot like me in the same boat. BTW I don't root or use anything not served up by Samsung, that way I protect my warranty and leaves no room for manoeuvre for the retailer or Samsung.
Top of my list is:
1 Black clipping in videos
Its just NOT acceptable that a phone in this price range and with this specs. cannot play (random) video without this terrible artifacts.
It doesnt deliver what is promised. (in the commercials )
Even my 3 jear old HTC plays video a lot better.
If its not fixed in the near future i think i will go for a refund because i really feel cheated by samsung because of this problem and their way of (not) supporting it.
2 EMMC bug.
3 the overall way that samsung deals with this bugs and the people/customers who report them.
Please step up samsung!
i can wait for a stable ics.
BUT BLACK CLIPPING come on samsung... please fix it...its damn ugly...people look at this phone as if its some heavenly artifact..thank God i dont let em watch dark videos, they will just scoff at me saying ' 30,000 bucks for this?'..i'm sorta asking myself that question now...it's advertised as if it has the best screen on the market and yet it shows greys so badly and pictures taken in the dark are so ugly with purple blotches..premium smartphone? dont think so!!
Priority by number:
1- eMMC bug, known for a long time and can be solutioned if samsung wants to....
2- Black clipping, can get rid of it by not seeing vids or black images.......
3- Battery drain, it's impossible to have to walk with a charger in our pockets with average use. If you use data transfer all day you can't use it for a day (10H)
4- Updates from samsung are a joke, touchwizz may be a great launcher but not with ICS. Tanks for those who developed others..
5- Total lack of interest by samsung: 7 million sold with about 70% of those with a high possibilty to be returned and get a new MB?? That's a risk !!!!! No solution, no excuse, no explanation, nothing from samsung.......
Oh well i really like my note, bought it for a reason and it does what i want but there are too many bugs/problems with it to be a fully functional device. What does samsung about it??? Release SGSIII.......... yeah right nice solution.
Had a samsung before and gave me a lot of problems, i know i shouldn't have gone back but..........let's try to solve this.
becosemsaida
add Entropy to the list of people who gets a lot of complains from users..
anyway, i suggest that the emmc or wiping bug should be put as the top priority so that when samsung or anyone from their team visits the thread, the first thing they will notice is the said bug... a bold/red text maybe? and put some sticky magic to this thread?
i don't know if its just me but i only care about the bug that kills our devices.. i can live with the other issues...
im going to tweet this thread everyday.... hoping for fast actions from samsung... its the first time i got so disappointed with sammy..
here is a shortened url for tweeting http://goo.gl/I3q7q
I started out loving this device, but am increasingly so disappointed in it. At this point I would certainly not recommend it to anyone who wants to use it as a media device.
First there is the volume issue, which I have found inexcusable. If you want to use this to watch Google Play Movies when traveling, its basically useless. The volume through headsets is so low that I cant follow the dialogue of a movie when I am sitting on an airplane, and thats WITH good quality noise cancelling headphones.
I have basically been able to address this problem by buying an external amplifier for my headphone that gets me to an acceptable volume, but in my opinion its ridiculous that you would need to do this in order to get to a basic level of usability in that scenario. Certainly not an issue with iPads (not that I own one!).
Now the KitKat update. Ever since then the video playback is poor. It stutters frequently, and while its still consumable, its not a very good experience. Ive also had two crashes while watching videos over the last few days It noticeably stutters and jumps - I think this has been reported on and it seems it has not yet been fixed. I am looking for a way to downgrade back to JellyBean in the meantime.
Has anyone done this yet?
Thanks. Sorry for the rant, but Im so disillusioned in what I initially thought was such a great device.
That's odd, because I'm not experiencing any of those issues. I use a Bluetooth headset (Plantronics), and the volumes are great - I can't turn it up all the way without it hurting. I stream to ChromeCast with my 7 and there are zero issues with Google Movies, NetFlix, YouTube, etc. Sorry to hear you're having problems, but maybe it's a hardware issue?
jimbobtexas said:
That's odd, because I'm not experiencing any of those issues. I use a Bluetooth headset (Plantronics), and the volumes are great - I can't turn it up all the way without it hurting. I stream to ChromeCast with my 7 and there are zero issues with Google Movies, NetFlix, YouTube, etc. Sorry to hear you're having problems, but maybe it's a hardware issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too - no issues from my side. Really does sound like the hardware is at fault.
andrew.golby said:
Me too - no issues from my side. Really does sound like the hardware is at fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the replies guys. Im glad to hear you arent having those issues...however they are pretty well documented.
If you google something like "nexus 7 movie playback volume low" you will see many, many people with this issue. So I dont know if its a hardware issue thats somewhat widespread, or maybe you have better hearing and are less affected...but for me and those other users, if you try to watch a Google Play Movie through headsets and there is any ambient noise, the volume is not usable.
For a while people were fixing this with volume booster apps, but those dont work on recent updates to the OS...
The video playback issue has also been very well documented since the KitKat upgrade.
lirong said:
Thanks for the replies guys. Im glad to hear you arent having those issues...however they are pretty well documented.
If you google something like "nexus 7 movie playback volume low" you will see many, many people with this issue. So I dont know if its a hardware issue thats somewhat widespread, or maybe you have better hearing and are less affected...but for me and those other users, if you try to watch a Google Play Movie through headsets and there is any ambient noise, the volume is not usable.
For a while people were fixing this with volume booster apps, but those dont work on recent updates to the OS...
The video playback issue has also been very well documented since the KitKat upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just get little pixelations on the screen mostly when changing the orientation.
What about the volume through other media apps? Crackle is free if you dont have netflix or HULU.
An issue I have is that the screen never rotates, but when it magically does it gets stuck in whichever orientation it landed in. I also notice graphical glitches but only during the boot sequence just before the animation.
Sent from the dark side of the moon.
Want to know how to boost your devices performance and battery life? See my thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2495269
lirong said:
I started out loving this device, but am increasingly so disappointed in it. At this point I would certainly not recommend it to anyone who wants to use it as a media device.
First there is the volume issue, which I have found inexcusable. If you want to use this to watch Google Play Movies when traveling, its basically useless. The volume through headsets is so low that I cant follow the dialogue of a movie when I am sitting on an airplane, and thats WITH good quality noise cancelling headphones.
I have basically been able to address this problem by buying an external amplifier for my headphone that gets me to an acceptable volume, but in my opinion its ridiculous that you would need to do this in order to get to a basic level of usability in that scenario. Certainly not an issue with iPads (not that I own one!).
Now the KitKat update. Ever since then the video playback is poor. It stutters frequently, and while its still consumable, its not a very good experience. Ive also had two crashes while watching videos over the last few days It noticeably stutters and jumps - I think this has been reported on and it seems it has not yet been fixed. I am looking for a way to downgrade back to JellyBean in the meantime.
Has anyone done this yet?
Thanks. Sorry for the rant, but Im so disillusioned in what I initially thought was such a great device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be sure you plug in headphones very firmly. Took me a week to figure out they went in further. Known issue.
lirong said:
I started out loving this device, but am increasingly so disappointed in it. At this point I would certainly not recommend it to anyone who wants to use it as a media device.
First there is the volume issue, which I have found inexcusable. If you want to use this to watch Google Play Movies when traveling, its basically useless. The volume through headsets is so low that I cant follow the dialogue of a movie when I am sitting on an airplane, and thats WITH good quality noise cancelling headphones.
I have basically been able to address this problem by buying an external amplifier for my headphone that gets me to an acceptable volume, but in my opinion its ridiculous that you would need to do this in order to get to a basic level of usability in that scenario. Certainly not an issue with iPads (not that I own one!).
Now the KitKat update. Ever since then the video playback is poor. It stutters frequently, and while its still consumable, its not a very good experience. Ive also had two crashes while watching videos over the last few days It noticeably stutters and jumps - I think this has been reported on and it seems it has not yet been fixed. I am looking for a way to downgrade back to JellyBean in the meantime.
Has anyone done this yet?
Thanks. Sorry for the rant, but Im so disillusioned in what I initially thought was such a great device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried viper4android sound mod??....Iklutz post a link to it on his thread...THE best sound mod out there. Coupled with a good headset. Win! However, N7 must be rooted to apply settings.
Go and search for Volume Control+ on Google Market. This will give you full control on your volume settings, as some apps change the volume to a low level and you'll not be able to restore it to the full level with the device's hardware buttons.
And when you are busy at Google's Market Place, don't forget to search for an alternate video player like VLC player or MX player. Forget about the preinstalled players, it's crap in my opinion.
The volume seems OK to me although to be honest I haven't experienced it in an environment such as a plane. Have you tried another set of headphones as a test?
The issues I have noticed myself are quite minor is the glitch in the boot animation, which had been mentioned and also when hitting back to come out of an app it will go back to another app and then to the desktop rather than straight to the desktop. I think this is multi tasking related but it isn't as if I am opening a link from one app to another which can happen normally sometimes.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
nakedtruthishere said:
Go and search for Volume Control+ on Google Market. This will give you full control on your volume settings, as some apps change the volume to a low level and you'll not be able to restore it to the full level with the device's hardware buttons.
And when you are busy at Google's Market Place, don't forget to search for an alternate video player like VLC player or MX player. Forget about the preinstalled players, it's crap in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that apps like Volume Control+ no longer work with the new versions of Android (not just KitKat, even the last 4.2.2 version).
Regarding alternative video players...they cant play movies I download from Google Play can they?
lirong said:
I believe that apps like Volume Control+ no longer work with the new versions of Android (not just KitKat, even the last 4.2.2 version).
Regarding alternative video players...they cant play movies I download from Google Play can they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Volume Control+ Pro does work very well with Kitkat and the previous Android versions installed on my N7.
Google Play Videos? I don't know, frankly spoken, cause I never ever downloaded one. Give it a try and you'll see, VLC is for free.
nakedtruthishere said:
Volume Control+ Pro does work very well with Kitkat and the previous Android versions installed on my N7.
Google Play Videos? I don't know, frankly spoken, cause I never ever downloaded one. Give it a try and you'll see, VLC is for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks I will try it.
I am most interested in something that can boost the volume through headsets when I watch downloaded videos from Play store on Google Play Video. Its currently atrocious and my understanding is that the volume booster apps arent effective for this.
I Know there are some mods I can make if I root and install custom kernel...sadly I dont have the time to start mucking about there!
nakedtruthishere said:
Volume Control+ Pro does work very well with Kitkat and the previous Android versions installed on my N7.
Google Play Videos? I don't know, frankly spoken, cause I never ever downloaded one. Give it a try and you'll see, VLC is for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Am I trying the correct app? I tried Volume Control + by Coffeebreak Apps (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cb.volumePlus).
This doesnt seem to be a volume booster app at all, just a way to control the volume settings of your device without using the hard buttons, and setting default profiles when you do something like plug in a headset.
Am I missing something? It doesnt seem like ti will increase the volume beyond the highest level I can manually set it to with the buttons.
lirong said:
Am I trying the correct app? I tried Volume Control + by Coffeebreak Apps (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cb.volumePlus).
This doesnt seem to be a volume booster app at all, just a way to control the volume settings of your device without using the hard buttons, and setting default profiles when you do something like plug in a headset.
Am I missing something? It doesnt seem like ti will increase the volume beyond the highest level I can manually set it to with the buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the correct App. It´s not a booster, but gives you control of the settings, another app may have left on a lower volume level.
Check out every app running on your device, especially those having "equalizer" settings. Try to turn them off and see what happens.
If the problem still persists, this may be a general issue of either the volume of Google´s videos, of your earphones or even your ears. Have you been trying other earphones, resp. in-earphones before? I assure, the volume level is ear-splitting high on my device.
Some apps like MX-Player and VLC will ask you, if it shall boost volume above the recommended level. Did you see this prompt? Did you deny or agree?
lirong said:
Thanks I will try it.
I am most interested in something that can boost the volume through headsets when I watch downloaded videos from Play store on Google Play Video. Its currently atrocious and my understanding is that the volume booster apps arent effective for this.
I Know there are some mods I can make if I root and install custom kernel...sadly I dont have the time to start mucking about there!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok first I just want to say that this little rant that I'm about to have is not meant to slap you or anything, so try not to take too much offense if possible.. Seriously though I just hate to see someone talk about how a device is disappointing and that they wouldn't recommend it, when really what they should be saying is that the factory software for the device is disappointing. I know you said that you don't have time to "muck" around with rooting and such, and in my opinion the problems you are having are basically "what you get" whenever you just settle for what is handed to you. It's almost like taking the "free" phone because you don't want to spend the money to get a better one, and then getting upset because it can't play the newest games or run the newest apps. I definitely understand that when you buy something it should basically work, but with Android you're dealing with one operating system and thousands of different devices. So because of that if you go into it expecting perfection right out of the gate, more than likely you're probably going to be disappointed. The trade off however (which unfortunately is the part that you don't have time to mess with), is that you're most certainly not "stuck" with what you are handed. You can make this thing so loud that you can't stand it if you wanted to, and because of that the fact that it doesn't just come that way out of the box is technically irrelevant imo. I'd be willing to bet the time it would take you to get the basics down so you can have full control over your device, would actually be less than the time you spend being frustrated because it's not working the way you expect it to. Anyway that's just my two cents because I think you are missing out on the very best part of Android.. which is that it can be whatever you want it to be.
jeep447 said:
Ok first I just want to say that this little rant that I'm about to have is not meant to slap you or anything, so try not to take too much offense if possible.. Seriously though I just hate to see someone talk about how a device is disappointing and that they wouldn't recommend it, when really what they should be saying is that the factory software for the device is disappointing. I know you said that you don't have time to "muck" around with rooting and such, and in my opinion the problems you are having are basically "what you get" whenever you just settle for what is handed to you. It's almost like taking the "free" phone because you don't want to spend the money to get a better one, and then getting upset because it can't play the newest games or run the newest apps. I definitely understand that when you buy something it should basically work, but with Android you're dealing with one operating system and thousands of different devices. So because of that if you go into it expecting perfection right out of the gate, more than likely you're probably going to be disappointed. The trade off however (which unfortunately is the part that you don't have time to mess with), is that you're most certainly not "stuck" with what you are handed. You can make this thing so loud that you can't stand it if you wanted to, and because of that the fact that it doesn't just come that way out of the box is technically irrelevant imo. I'd be willing to bet the time it would take you to get the basics down so you can have full control over your device, would actually be less than the time you spend being frustrated because it's not working the way you expect it to. Anyway that's just my two cents because I think you are missing out on the very best part of Android.. which is that it can be whatever you want it to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont take offense, however I also dont agree with a couple of your assertions.
First of all, clearly with any device (especially Android) a lot of it is what you do with your device after unpacking it. That said, certain basic use cases should be functional out of the box. Using this device as a media player while on the road is CLEARLY a primary anticipated use case. And the fact that there are volume challenges here is not isolated. It may be the case that not everyone has this issue, but certainly a quick google search reveals that many, many people are having issues with being able to hear Google Play movies when in a travel environment with any ambient noise. You can point out that someone who wants to root and mod their device can solve this problem...nevertheless, this is a product flaw. Period.
Second, I dont agree with your point of view on rooting and modding the device. Yes you can apply yourself to it and accomplish things. I have rooted all of my devices and have put custom ROMs on some of them. And the community here is very helpful in making this accessible and supporting people through the process. However, its not a straightforward thing to do. I have yet to install a custom ROM that hasnt had some "side effects" that then take a lot of time trying to diagnose. For every improvement, even when you get everything technically right (and there is a time consuming learning curve), there are quirky behaviors that are hard to diagnose, even for the experts on this site, as every phone is different.
So yes you can achieve some really cool things and its part of the allure of Android. But it comes with real costs, and those costs (in my opinion) may be worthwhile in some instances, but are not something you should have to bear just to get basic, minimally acceptable functionality for a primary use case of the device.
Anyway...
lirong said:
I dont take offense, however I also dont agree with a couple of your assertions.
First of all, clearly with any device (especially Android) a lot of it is what you do with your device after unpacking it. That said, certain basic use cases should be functional out of the box. Using this device as a media player while on the road is CLEARLY a primary anticipated use case. And the fact that there are volume challenges here is not isolated. It may be the case that not everyone has this issue, but certainly a quick google search reveals that many, many people are having issues with being able to hear Google Play movies when in a travel environment with any ambient noise. You can point out that someone who wants to root and mod their device can solve this problem...nevertheless, this is a product flaw. Period.
Second, I dont agree with your point of view on rooting and modding the device. Yes you can apply yourself to it and accomplish things. I have rooted all of my devices and have put custom ROMs on some of them. And the community here is very helpful in making this accessible and supporting people through the process. However, its not a straightforward thing to do. I have yet to install a custom ROM that hasnt had some "side effects" that then take a lot of time trying to diagnose. For every improvement, even when you get everything technically right (and there is a time consuming learning curve), there are quirky behaviors that are hard to diagnose, even for the experts on this site, as every phone is different.
So yes you can achieve some really cool things and its part of the allure of Android. But it comes with real costs, and those costs (in my opinion) may be worthwhile in some instances, but are not something you should have to bear just to get basic, minimally acceptable functionality for a primary use case of the device.
Anyway...
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I respect that you're entitled to your own opinion, but I still think it's ridiculous to say it's a product flaw "period" (as if you are holding your breath and stomping your feet while you say it lol) when it's caused by nothing more than software, so I guess you're just missing my point. Imo going into anything and expecting it to be perfect is pretty silly especially when you have complete control over the device, but it's just that.. my opinion. If you have yet to install a custom rom and or kernel "that hasn't had some kind of side effects", I would venture to say that you haven't done very many. I just find it funny that the "very cool things" you say can be achieved are actually things like fixing all of the problems you are having, so I'll just never understand how that's a product failure, but again though, that's just me. Clearly we're different considering you download movies from Google Play, because that's something (as someone else also mentioned) you'd never catch me doing. That combined with the fact that you're expecting some sort of cookie cutter, straight forward solution when it comes to having complete control over your device, tells me you're a wildly different consumer that I am. Carriers and manufacturers actually want people to have that exact "cookie cutter" experience, because it allows them to stear people into spending more money. Ultimately it's your device yet somehow they feel as if they have the right to tell you what you can and cannot do with it, and frankly it surprises me how many people don't even get that. What's funny about that though is that I can guarantee if they tried doing the exact same thing except with people's cars, there would probably be a riot in the streets. Imagine if you bought a car outright from a dealer for cash and then decide to put an aftermarket stereo in it, only to find out they put a lock on the factory radio so it cannot be removed unless you pay extra for it. If it sounds pretty ridiculous then why can they do the exact same thing with the cell phones that people own, yet hardly anyone seems to be bothered by it? Imo (again) it's because a lot of people expect that same "cookie cutter experience" where they don't have to "muck" around with anything, so as far as I'm concerned they deserve what they (you) get, especially when they're willing to just let it happen. This also isn't meant to be a slap (even though I honestly believe it's designed for a certain type of person), but maybe you should consider looking into getting an iPhone. The reason I say that is because that software has been designed for literally one device instead of thousands, and since you seem more concerned about how something runs out of the box rather than how it could run, it might just be a better "cookie cutter experience" for you (I don't know why but I just like saying "cookie cutter" a lot today! Blahaha). Anyway like I said that's just my opinion though and maybe I'm just not as critical about things when it comes to my devices, but that could also be because I have them set up exactly they way I want them.. Which is exactly why I'm such a fan of Android to begin with!
Sent from a modified ColecoVision
jeep447 said:
I respect that you're entitled to your own opinion, but I still think it's ridiculous to say it's a product flaw "period" (as if you are holding your breath and stomping your feet while you say it lol) when it's caused by nothing more than software, so I guess you're just missing my point. Imo going into anything and expecting it to be perfect is pretty silly especially when you have complete control over the device, but it's just that.. my opinion. If you have yet to install a custom rom and or kernel "that hasn't had some kind of side effects", I would venture to say that you haven't done very many. I just find it funny that the "very cool things" you say can be achieved are actually things like fixing all of the problems you are having, so I'll just never understand how that's a product failure, but again though, that's just me. Clearly we're different considering you download movies from Google Play, because that's something (as someone else also mentioned) you'd never catch me doing. That combined with the fact that you're expecting some sort of cookie cutter, straight forward solution when it comes to having complete control over your device, tells me you're a wildly different consumer that I am. Carriers and manufacturers actually want people to have that exact "cookie cutter" experience, because it allows them to stear people into spending more money. Ultimately it's your device yet somehow they feel as if they have the right to tell you what you can and cannot do with it, and frankly it surprises me how many people don't even get that. What's funny about that though is that I can guarantee if they tried doing the exact same thing except with people's cars, there would probably be a riot in the streets. Imagine if you bought a car outright from a dealer for cash and then decide to put an aftermarket stereo in it, only to find out they put a lock on the factory radio so it cannot be removed unless you pay extra for it. If it sounds pretty ridiculous then why can they do the exact same thing with the cell phones that people own, yet hardly anyone seems to be bothered by it? Imo (again) it's because a lot of people expect that same "cookie cutter experience" where they don't have to "muck" around with anything, so as far as I'm concerned they deserve what they (you) get, especially when they're willing to just let it happen. This also isn't meant to be a slap (even though I honestly believe it's designed for a certain type of person), but maybe you should consider looking into getting an iPhone. The reason I say that is because that software has been designed for literally one device instead of thousands, and since you seem more concerned about how something runs out of the box rather than how it could run, it might just be a better "cookie cutter experience" for you (I don't know why but I just like saying "cookie cutter" a lot today! Blahaha). Anyway like I said that's just my opinion though and maybe I'm just not as critical about things when it comes to my devices, but that could also be because I have them set up exactly they way I want them.. Which is exactly why I'm such a fan of Android to begin with!
Sent from a modified ColecoVision
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The N7 was heavily marketed as a media consumption device and a solid gamer (including a game(s) designed specifically to showcase the Tegra 3's 4 (and 1/2) cores and GPU horsepower... On a chip made by Nvidia... which implies an enhanced level of credibility and expectation from a company that is synonymous with Graphics.
You should not have to root a device with four 1.3Ghz cores, nor be concerned about obsolescence for playback of local or steamed video on a 7-inch screen @ 1280x800 max resolution. I root every device I own, but it shouldn't be a requirement for the primary use-cases for which the device is designed and marketed. Additionally, over-clocking the CPU as high as 1.7Ghz doesn't yield improvement, nor does GPU OC, different governors, etc... As a bonus, performance craters with age due to the cheap NAND. I can under clock my 1080p LG e980 to 1Ghz, disable two-cores and it still runs laps around my N7...
For the price, the N7 was a good value. However, it falls short of the marketed high-performance (which, BTW, didn't include any disclaimer(s) that device must be rooted and running an unofficial AOSPA kang/kennel combo). It's one thing to suggest root/ROM/kernel solutions for problems which require such a solution, but there's no need to condescend to someone for not voiding their warranty to solve a problem that shouldn't exist.
P.S. Netflix doesn't stream aka mirror to Chromecast- The N7 just informs the Chromecast of the workload it's handing off.
Hi fellow XDA members. I am writing this hoping someone from Sony will read it.
Dear Sony. We love the phone. The z3 rocks but the fact we can't root due to losing DRM keys really blows chunks.
Please Sony give us either a way to root without unlocking boot loader and losing DRM keys or a way to backup and restore them after we have rooted the phone. Development then would speed up and make a great phone even better.
Thanks for reading. Guys please add your support to this in the hopes someone from there reads it.
>>>and please allow root for your Verizon variant as well! Much appreciated.
Sent from my D6708
Man...an Android without root and custom ROMs renders an Android phone to a dull brick. I have done it with all my phones so far and that is what makes Android great.
Z3 is the first one where dev support is missing and I'm considering buying another to get my flash fix satisfied.
I'm about to go cold turkey soon fellars..
Without root we cannot backup TA this is the biggest problem for me. Yesterday i have bought Z3 and this phone rocks but it is very sad witout root :/ we have to wait i think.
I regret my decision of going with Z3. Phone is great but rooting means loosing functionality while unlocking bootloader is NO GO. I seems difficult to wait for rooting without unlocking bootloader hence selling it off.
This is y I want Sony to take notice. They know we do it hence the boot loader unlock tool so y not help those of us inclined to.
Just to join... I COULD have this phon. I looked on it and it seems interesting after some years with Samsunge. However, reading the feedback related with bootloader, I decided to stick with my samsung S4, while Z3 offer is waiting.
Assuming my level of patience and knowing myself I'd say that having Z3 option (for me) would be open for next month. after that I will have a new phone. It may be HTC, LG, Nexus, Samsung... whatever will give me option to safely root it.
But - let's be honest. It is a Sony's choice: or they would unlock the functions, or the people will choose another brand, which would give them possibilities. What is surprising for me: any manufacturer would presumably like to increase their sales rate. It seems that Sony wants to reduce it.
A bit strange, however if they want to become a negligible part of the market, it is their free will. I can only support their decision closing my option for Z3 soon.
I fully agree. We need it.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
You dont need the drm keys.
Even without them it's better than Nexus phones
But the point is I want to be able to use the camera to its full advantage
OP has a very valid point. I never thought I'd hear myself say this but I am hoping for a FW update, for DRM retention AND camera improvements... more than an update to Android L!
Adding my support.
Love this phone, much better than my Samsung Galaxy S3, even rooted!
I know that if the DRM keys are gone, so are some camera features... do we know EXACTLY what camera features would be gone though?
johnathanamber said:
Adding my support.
Love this phone, much better than my Samsung Galaxy S3, even rooted!
I know that if the DRM keys are gone, so are some camera features... do we know EXACTLY what camera features would be gone though?
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From what I understand its the camera algorithms that Mae it such high quality that u lose. It reduces the low light clarity of the camera. I know there is more like xreality and bravia engine also but not sure what else
sswagonman said:
From what I understand its the camera algorithms that Mae it such high quality that u lose. It reduces the low light clarity of the camera. I know there is more like xreality and bravia engine also but not sure what else
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So, you loose overall camera functionality except the basics... that sucks. I could live without some advanced features, but the clarity and definition... not rooting yet.
johnathanamber said:
So, you loose overall camera functionality except the basics... that sucks. I could live without some advanced features, but the clarity and definition... not rooting yet.
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About losing camera capabilities... found this:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/10/rooting-your-xperia-z3-will-ruin-the-cameras-low-light-abilities/
Here's an example of the quality difference:
http://phandroid.com/2014/10/02/sony-warns-unlocking-xperia-z3-bootloader-will-kill-performance/
johnathanamber said:
About losing camera capabilities... found this:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/10/rooting-your-xperia-z3-will-ruin-the-cameras-low-light-abilities/
Here's an example of the quality difference:
http://phandroid.com/2014/10/02/sony-warns-unlocking-xperia-z3-bootloader-will-kill-performance/
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It would be more interesting to see someone with 1) technical knowledge about exactly what functionality is lost upon rooting and 2) the ability to take sensible photographs to demonstrate their loss. That single picture, with no info whatsoever about it (exposure, mode, etc etc), is utterly worthless.
Also, it'll be interesting to see if there's any difference between locked and unlocked RAW photos when Lollipop comes out. There should be no difference at all, at which point the only important thing (for me, at least, as a developer who wants root AND someone who only takes RAW photos when using a DSLR) is which tool to use to post-process RAW files. I have no idea what variant of RAW Android is going to use (it's not a standard, so they have free reign to do whatever they like - in fact, they have a good opportunity to forge a new RAW standard other manufacturers might end up supporting).
poldie said:
It would be more interesting to see someone with 1) technical knowledge about exactly what functionality is lost upon rooting and 2) the ability to take sensible photographs to demonstrate their loss. That single picture, with no info whatsoever about it (exposure, mode, etc etc), is utterly worthless.
Also, it'll be interesting to see if there's any difference between locked and unlocked RAW photos when Lollipop comes out. There should be no difference at all, at which point the only important thing (for me, at least, as a developer who wants root AND someone who only takes RAW photos when using a DSLR) is which tool to use to post-process RAW files. I have no idea what variant of RAW Android is going to use (it's not a standard, so they have free reign to do whatever they like - in fact, they have a good opportunity to forge a new RAW standard other manufacturers might end up supporting).
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Agreed, the lack of proper information doesn't help the case. I just thought it was interesting to see what the average person would be in those scenarios. Most won't use outside what is automatic and simple to use.
johnathanamber said:
Agreed, the lack of proper information doesn't help the case. I just thought it was interesting to see what the average person would be in those scenarios. Most won't use outside what is automatic and simple to use.
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Sure. But most people won't root their phones. And, for that section of the venn diagram which consists of people who do want to root their phone and don't want to manually deal with RAW conversion and post-processing to work around the quality hit losing DRM keys will cause, i'm sure there'll be an android app available which will compensate, once the nature of the loss (which I'm trying to understand) is known. For example, Sony might have nice algorithms to simulate a longer exposure time without adding the noise you'd normally introduce.
Huge thanks to @poldie and @johnathanamber for the knowledge provided above. To most of us we don't understand the intricate details of this technology so the insight in fantastic. And raising more awareness about this issue so thank you.
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