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Does the lack of 64bit make much of a difference for between now and 2016 spring where I'll most probably get my next phone after this note? Will it take some time for 64bit to really be widespread in terms of apps and games and software etc which would make it ok to get this note provided I upgrade again in 2016?
According to anandtech, the Exynos version might have a 64bit capable architecture (Cortex A57), but the chip's drivers and firmware run in a CAL mode (32-bit compatibility mode). This means that while it benefits from some of the performance and power saving features of A57, it won't be running 64bit code.
pcman2000 said:
According to anandtech, the Exynos version might have a 64bit capable architecture (Cortex A57), but the chip's drivers and firmware run in a CAL mode (32-bit compatibility mode). This means that while it benefits from some of the performance and power saving features of A57, it won't be running 64bit code.
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Same as Snapdragon 410 devices launched. No 64bit code because Android 4.4.4 can't run 64bit but Android L will.
Sent from my SM-G900H using XDA Free mobile app
hiepgia said:
Same as Snapdragon 410 devices launched. No 64bit code because Android 4.4.4 can't run 64bit but Android L will.
Sent from my SM-G900H using XDA Free mobile app
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The anandtech article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8537/samsungs-exynos-5433-is-an-a57a53-arm-soc
It seems to imply that this was never meant to be a 64bit SoC, and may not ever run in 64bit mode (at least without some hacking), even with Android L.
They share their opinion. I checked HTC Desire 510 have snapdragon 410 too. In source code doesn't have AArch64 implement too. But it doesn't mean an update with android L won't bring implement AArch64.
Anandtech think Exynos 5433 is 32 bit and they are total wrong. Now they can wrong too.
Exynos 5433 with AArch64 at first is line up Exynos 6 but they don't want Snapdragon chipset can't sell-out when people want Exynos chipset. The very same story with Snapdragon and Exynos in Galaxy S4/S5 and Note 4.
markboi13 said:
Does the lack of 64bit make much of a difference for between now and 2016 spring where I'll most probably get my next phone after this note? Will it take some time for 64bit to really be widespread in terms of apps and games and software etc which would make it ok to get this note provided I upgrade again in 2016?
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Click to collapse
I think some people answered your question but not fully lol. Simply put this whole argument over 64-bit and 32-bit is kind of pointless. As others have stated the exynos version isn't even running in 64 bit mode. Android L has yet to be released and there is no way of telling if it can be put into 64 bit mode. Even if it could, if you decide to get a snapdragon note now, you will be good. Most apps will not be 64 bit compatible out of the gate, and will take some time for them to be so. You will not experience any major loss in performance, and maybe someslight difference in battery life. Hell my nexus 5 on Android L developer preview which isn't even finalized runs AMAZING in comparison to kit kat, and in no way shape or form is the nexus 5 64 bit compatible. Don't let 64-bit fanboys sway your decision on an exynos vs snapdragon note 4. They both will be powerhouses with android L. By 2016 for your next upgrade there will be plenty of 64 bit phones, especially the S6 at that time, and the Note 5 in the fall.
It will be years until 64bit is widely accepted and used so you'll be okay. I'm basing this off of the windows transition which is still occurring after all these years.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Itchiee said:
It will be years until 64bit is widely accepted and used so you'll be okay. I'm basing this off of the windows transition which is still occurring after all these years.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
People get new phone every 18 months on average, I would imagine people hold on to computers for much longer, so analogy to windows regarding transition is probably wrong. Another example for disparity would be OS updates, Google has 2-3 updates of Android a year, where MS would be every 2-3 years?
Also the newest ARM architecture is probably 20-40% faster (per clock) and Google has a chance to write more efficient OS (like replacing JIT with ART for example). So I'm willing to predict that transition to 64 bit will be much faster for the phones than it is with computers. Of course all this depends on translating theoretical gains into real life advantages , if they don't show up due to poor execution, then all bets are off.
Hello,
1- is it possible to compile moto x play kernel to arm x64 and use it?
2- Will it give any advantages over 32 bit kernel, eg. apps should run faster?
3- Why we have 32bit system when cpu supports ARM x64?
Thanks
Pararocker said:
Hello,
1- is it possible to compile moto x play kernel to arm x64 and use it?
2- Will it give any advantages over 32 bit kernel, eg. apps should run faster?
3- Why we have 32bit system when cpu supports ARM x64?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has already been told that the hardware isn't powerful enough to get the performance improvements with 64 bit software or kernel.
If the ram get ahead of 4gb, only then the real performance improvement of 64 bit can be seen.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk
K.khiladi said:
If the ram get ahead of 4gb, only then the real performance improvement of 64 bit can be seen.
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Click to collapse
benchmarks don't support this. At least on desktop pcs with less than 4GB of RAM 64bit systems mostly were faster:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_x86_1304&num=1
Don't know about Android phones though
According to ARM the speed advantage is about 15-20% (see here). Of course the memory footprint is bigger. The Moto X Play has only 2GB RAM, so 64 bit may lose speed against 32 Bit if memory gets exhausted.
This is the same dimension like DroidFish would probably gain according to a mail from the author, which I asked some time ago:
Code:
[quote=tag]in a German Android forum someone insists that chess programs would be
much faster on 64 Bit Android. Do you agree? Would DroidFish for
instance make use of bigger data types, or do they exist already in 32
Bit Android?
[/quote]
The only functional difference in DroidFish when using 64 bit android is
that 6-men syzygy tablebases are supported. The DroidFish user interface
probably only get slightly faster by using 64-bit instructions. Chess
engines can gain quite a bit of speed by using 64-bit instructions though,
but how much they gain depends on the chess engine.
For the stockfish engine that is built into DroidFish I measured 16% speed
increase on my Nexus 6P when using 64-bit compared to 32-bit.
For my own chess engine texel the difference is much larger. The speed
increases about 68% when using 64-bit compared to 32-bit.
The difference can probably mostly be explained by the fact that stockfish
is heavily optimized both for 64-bit and 32-bit architectures, but texel
is only optimized for 64-bit architectures.
Pararocker said:
Hello,
1- is it possible to compile moto x play kernel to arm x64 and use it?
2- Will it give any advantages over 32 bit kernel, eg. apps should run faster?
3- Why we have 32bit system when cpu supports ARM x64?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Maybe, if we can maintain binary compatible with 32-bit userspace blobs. It may be doable with CONFIG_COMPAT and some hackery, but I've never tried such a thing before. I've been contemplating building a 64-bit ROM for lux (using a blend of lux blobs and blobs from 64-bit MSM8939 devices) for quite a while, but I've been too busy to even try, and I have higher priority tasks to take care of when I do get time (such as Audio HAL issues on CM13).
2. Yes, expect a 15-20% speedup. 64-bit sucks with 1 GB RAM, but 2 GB is fine.
3. Motorola wanted to make surnia, osprey, merlin, and lux as similar as possible, so they chose the lowest common denominator.
@squid2 Did you manage to make a 64 bit kernel, buddy?
Hi
Some time ago, I purchased this smartphone - I think I picked the quadcore variant and was sure of that until now.
The model I have is SM-N910C, so this should be the exynos version, right?
Now that I want to install the TWRP recovery, I saw many different versions for each different model.
Just to be sure, I checked again, if I really have the proper version and it now seems that my Note 4 actually has the octacore.
So, in short, here's my question: How do I make 100% certain, which model I have and which chipset it uses without looking at the processor itself?
Apparently, the model displayed in download mode is accurate.....
According to some members, the info in download mode is 'hardcoded' into the device, and nothing can change it..... apparently.
http://i.imgur.com/rVnFwJM.jpg
ok, I finally could clarify which cpu is actually in my note 4: it's the exynos octacore.
Since it's a 64bit cpu, I consider this to be a happy accident
Utsuho Reiuji said:
ok, I finally could clarify which cpu is actually in my note 4: it's the exynos octacore.
Since it's a 64bit cpu, I consider this to be a happy accident
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Click to collapse
Sorry to burst your bubble but eventhough exynos 5433 chipset with 4xARM cortex A53 and 4xARM cortex A57 supports 64 bit, neither the rom nor the kernel is 64 bit enabled.
neondragon1909 said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but eventhough exynos 5433 chipset with 4xARM cortex A53 and 4xARM cortex A57 supports 64 bit, neither the rom nor the kernel is 64 bit enabled.
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Click to collapse
Oh, I'm aware of that, but still, having the 64 bit core is already fine even though I cannot really use its advantages.
Utsuho Reiuji said:
Oh, I'm aware of that, but still, having the 64 bit core is already fine even though I cannot really use its advantages.
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true
Asking for this because there is not a single thing like armv8a written in build.prop , So i guess we r using 32 bit android, also this is in build.prop
ro.product.cpu.abi=armeabi-v7a (not armv8)
ro.product.cpu.abi2=armeabi
ro.product.cpu.abilist64= (just empty)
ro.product.cpu.abilist32=armeabi-v7a,armeabi
JJSingh said:
Asking for this because there is not a single thing like armv8a written in build.prop , So i guess we r using 32 bit android, also this is in build.prop
ro.product.cpu.abi=armeabi-v7a (not armv8)
ro.product.cpu.abi2=armeabi
ro.product.cpu.abilist64= (just empty)
ro.product.cpu.abilist32=armeabi-v7a,armeabi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes bro its OS is 32 bit. Since its processor are based on armv7. And it won't be a trouble as the chip inside is not that powerful.
Ankit_29 said:
No bro. Common its 2017 almost every device is 64 bit.
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Click to collapse
al the latest moto G phones have 64 bit processor and 32 bit system... and the g5 plus is not an exception.
Then the software of both devices is 32 bit? That's a little disappointing
dhk.- said:
al the latest moto G phones have 64 bit processor and 32 bit system... and the g5 plus is not an exception.
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Click to collapse
Sorry I read it wrong. I thought he was talking about processor. Edited my post hope so this time I am correct.:silly:
dhk.- said:
al the latest moto G phones have 64 bit processor and 32 bit system... and the g5 plus is not an exception.
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Click to collapse
lol that is freking weird. but that matters? i mean upto how much extent. what if we had 64 bit os?
Thanks guys, i also did confirmed this myself ,os is 32 bit only although we have 64 bit compatible processor and even 4 gb ram . I donno whats wrong with motorola....
Ankit_29 said:
Yes bro its OS is 32 bit. Since its processor are based on armv7. And it won't be a trouble as the chip inside is not that powerful.
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Click to collapse
Bro snapdragon 625 is not a low end chip, it's powerful enough to run ur phone smooth, and it's based on armv8a and that makes it backward compatible to armv7....so this phone is supposed to run 64 bit os , but u knw moto
JJSingh said:
Thanks guys, i also did confirmed this myself ,os is 32 bit only although we have 64 bit compatible processor and even 4 gb ram . I donno whats wrong with motorola....
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bcz i think to unify the system for all variants. g5 plus also has 2 and 3 gb ram varints. it must be something which moto has taken into account while pushing 32 bit. so i guess we are good here.lol
rayzen6 said:
bcz i think to unify the system for all variants. g5 plus also has 2 and 3 gb ram varints. it must be something which moto has taken into account while pushing 32 bit. so i guess we are good here.lol
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Well i think u r right, 64 bit os would b heavy for 2 gb model... i hope we will get 64 bit lineage os sonn...
JJSingh said:
Bro snapdragon 625 is not a low end chip, it's powerful enough to run ur phone smooth, and it's based on armv8a and that makes it backward compatible to armv7....so this phone is supposed to run 64 bit os , but u knw moto
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Please let me know where I have said SD625 a "low-end chipset". As far I know and own the device and went through several test it shows armv7 (SS attached).
Ankit_29 said:
Please let me know where I have said SD625 a "low-end chipset". As far I know and own the device and went through several test it shows armv7 (SS attached).
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Click to collapse
broo your imei.
@rayzen6
Thank you bro. I didn't noticed it.
I have changed it. Hope no one has downloaded the pic.
Ankit_29 said:
@rayzen6
Thank you bro. I didn't noticed it.
I have changed it. Hope no one has downloaded the pic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good:
JJSingh said:
Well i think u r right, 64 bit os would b heavy for 2 gb model... i hope we will get 64 bit lineage os sonn...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not software related. If the hardware is v7, you will not get 64 bit lineage
PunchUp said:
It is not software related. If the hardware is v7, you will not get 64 bit lineage
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Click to collapse
SD625 is 64-bit capable.
KapilFaujdar said:
SD625 is 64-bit capable.
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Click to collapse
You don't get the point. Even if it is a 64 bit SOC, rest of the hardware follows v7 architecture (as SD625 is backward compatible). So it impossible to run 64 bit OS on this device.
What about ram usability
Since we are running a 32 bit Android version 4 GB ram variant is good can Android OS utilise all the 4gb of ram?
ags34 said:
Since we are running a 32 bit Android version 4 GB ram variant is good can Android OS utilise all the 4gb of ram?
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Click to collapse
4 GB is the maximum a 32 bit architecture can support. So yes, it's fully utilised
PunchUp said:
4 GB is the maximum a 32 bit architecture can support. So yes, it's fully utilised
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The physically addressable memory has not much to do with the "bitness" of the architecture. Most armv7a implementations support lpae (large physical address extension) and can thus address more than 4GB. Actually, I bet this extension is used on the 4GB variant as you also have I/O mapped into the physical address space and would be unable to utilize all of the RAM.
The 32 Bit architecture only confines the virtual address space *per process* to 4GB. Since some of that address space is used to map in shared objects (libraries), stack, kernel interfaces etc. you can usually only use 2-3 GB of RAM per process. This is hardly an issue for a phone (unless you run the Facebook app ). For servers (especially databases etc.) this limitation is an issue and the reason why 64 bit architectures are used there.
AArch64 has some other benefits, such as twice the amount of general purpose registers, 64 bit wide registers (obviously) which allow for 64 bit math, mandatory extensions (no need to check, compiler can just use NEON e.g.) etc. So it's sad that Motorola is not using the SoC's potential.
As for custom ROMs: You'd need a 64 bit kernel which supports the Moto's hardware, 64 bits gfx drivers. Not easy. And then you still need to hope that you can somehow convince the bootloader to boot your kernel in AArch64 state -- which may not be possible. Thus it is extremely unlikely that you get 64 bit support from the community.
Turns out Lenovo thought it would be a great idea to use 32bit for any reason.
realy? yet still this question?
LionLorena said:
Turns out Lenovo thought it would be a great idea to use 32bit for any reason.
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Wrong area to post this. 64 bit? Get a nexus.
Sent from my Moto G4 using Tapatalk
Why is this so absurd to consider? The device have a 64 bit CPU.
Why not use 64bit Android.
LionLorena said:
Why is this so absurd to consider? The device have a 64 bit CPU.
Why not use 64bit Android.
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Click to collapse
If you had searched for a little bit, you would have found that the answer was already made many times and answered in detail.
LionLorena said:
Why is this so absurd to consider? The device have a 64 bit CPU.
Why not use 64bit Android.
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Click to collapse
Because there's effectively no point. The SD617 has a 32-bit width data bus- a 64-bit ROM would actually yield less performance.
Why do you want a 64-bit ROM anyway? There's absolutely nothing 32-bit Android has to offer over 64-bit Android absurdly high RAM amounts (which you'll never find in a budget phone).
Some software I wanna use is 64bit only.
And what would be "absurdly high"?
Because from what I know the advised ram for 64bit is 4gb.
LionLorena said:
Some software I wanna use is 64bit only.
And what would be "absurdly high"?
Because from what I know the advised ram for 64bit is 4gb.
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Click to collapse
No use of 64 bit unless RAM > 4 GB. Beyond 4GB is the point where 64 bit arch starts.
Moreover does moto even release 64 bit source? I heard something similar in the potter forum.
tywinlannister7 said:
No use of 64 bit unless RAM > 4 GB. Beyond 4GB is the point where 64 bit arch starts.
Moreover does moto even release 64 bit source? I heard something similar in the potter forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually 3.7gb (give it or take) is the limit of 32bit.
So any value over that is valid for 64bit
And to be fair the minimum ram for 64bit would be 2gb.
They say 4gb because is where it matters most.
Since 32 can only deal with 4gb.
1 for kernel and 3 for application.
RAM consumption is huge on 64 bits system, take a look to the Nexus 5X... For an Android device running a 64 bits system you need at least 3 GB of RAM, and also, why do you want a 64 bits system if a 32 bits system offers better performance? The 64 bits system just has new type of instructions that are only for more complex calculations that not even the average user will use
LionLorena said:
And to be fair the minimum ram for 64bit would be 2gb.
They say 4gb because is where it matters most.
Since 32 can only deal with 4gb.
1 for kernel and 3 for application.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What software do you need to run on Android that requires 64-bit?
joeeboogz said:
Wrong place to post
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Click to collapse
Oh, I'm deeply sorry, it sounded appropriate to post under its own device category.
Johann0109 said:
RAM consumption is huge on 64 bits system, take a look to the Nexus 5X... For an Android device running a 64 bits system you need at least 3 GB of RAM, and also, why do you want a 64 bits system if a 32 bits system offers better performance? The 64 bits system just has new type of instructions that are only for more complex calculations that not even the average user will use
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Click to collapse
I need it to run 64bit only software.
negusp said:
What software do you need to run on Android that requires 64-bit?
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Click to collapse
Dolphin
Nintendo GameCube / Wii Emulator
Thread cleaned of rather sad tripe.
Keep it civil please...
LenAsh said:
Thread cleaned of rather sad tripe.
Keep it civil please...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks !
LionLorena said:
Dolphin
Nintendo GameCube / Wii Emulator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In all seriousness, even if a 64-bit ROM were ported to the G4 the SD617 inside would struggle heavily.
You need at least an SD801 to run Dolphin anywhere near smoothly.
negusp said:
In all seriousness, even if a 64-bit ROM were ported to the G4 the SD617 inside would struggle heavily.
You need at least an SD801 to run Dolphin anywhere near smoothly.
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Click to collapse
Hm I see.
Well, I've figured since it was to run some 2D title I would do fine.
Since I don't have a very powerful computer either (dual core i3 3217u) and it run said title at 60fps where other 3D games won't pass 10fps.
But that's expected I guess, I think it's time to move on.
I wonder if the Moto Z is 64bit since it is SD820
Didn't yu yureka have a 64 bit is?