Database Users

64 Bit?

Okay so this is rarely talked about, which I'm shocked, but the Droid Turbo is 64bit. It's on Motorola's official website spec sheet (scroll to the bottom). What do you guys think? What are the benefits (if any since its not 4GB). Why has this been a huge oversight?
http://www.motorola.com/us/droid-tu...&utm_campaign=5152763&PublisherName=Skimlinks

tnt2sniper said:
Okay so this is rarely talked about, which I'm shocked, but the Droid Turbo is 64bit. It's on Motorola's official website spec sheet (scroll to the bottom). What do you guys think? What are the benefits (if any since its not 4GB). Why has this been a huge oversight?
http://www.motorola.com/us/droid-tu...&utm_campaign=5152763&PublisherName=Skimlinks
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Click to collapse
It might be 64-bit memory interface, but KK is not 64-bit, nor is the SD805.
Sent from my iPad Air 2 using Tapatalk

I decided to check more into it and found this website.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8035/qualcomm-snapdragon-805-performance-preview
"The memory interface on S805 features two 64-bit LPDDR3-800 partitions (4 x 32-bit external interfaces), each capable of supporting 1600MHz datarate LPDDR3 for an aggregate peak theoretical bandwidth figure of 25.6GB/s."
Is that what they are talking about? Anyone care to explain what that means, because I'm completely lost. I'm assuming it has to do with RAM?
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app

tnt2sniper said:
Okay so this is rarely talked about, which I'm shocked, but the Droid Turbo is 64bit. It's on Motorola's official website spec sheet (scroll to the bottom). What do you guys think? What are the benefits (if any since its not 4GB). Why has this been a huge oversight?
http://www.motorola.com/us/droid-tu...&utm_campaign=5152763&PublisherName=Skimlinks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This:
Hemlocke said:
It might be 64-bit memory interface, but KK is not 64-bit, nor is the SD805.
Sent from my iPad Air 2 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
graymonkey44 said:
I decided to check more into it and found this website.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8035/qualcomm-snapdragon-805-performance-preview
"The memory interface on S805 features two 64-bit LPDDR3-800 partitions (4 x 32-bit external interfaces), each capable of supporting 1600MHz datarate LPDDR3 for an aggregate peak theoretical bandwidth figure of 25.6GB/s."
Is that what they are talking about? Anyone care to explain what that means, because I'm completely lost. I'm assuming it has to do with RAM?
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app
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Click to collapse
It is referring to RAM, not to the processor itself. The 805 is the last 32 bits processor for Qualcomm, maybe next year we will see the 808 and 810 who are supposed to be 64 bits.
:fingers-crossed:

What will a 64 bit processor do for your smartphone experience that 32 cannot accomplish?

bwheelies said:
What will a 64 bit processor do for your smartphone experience that 32 cannot accomplish?
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At this point, nothing. Actually, in terms of needs, a phone wouldn't need more than a dual core and 2GB on RAM, most of the apps are not even optimized for multiple cores, but you know, marketing and specs race...
:silly:

64 bits allows two big things - address memory more than 4GB and gives you larger registers so if the OS/app is 64bit it can basically work faster at the same clock speed. It will make a difference but its not something to worry about.

How many more posts need to be made about this?
graymonkey44 said:
"The memory interface on S805 features two 64-bit LPDDR3-800 partitions (4 x 32-bit external interfaces), each capable of supporting 1600MHz datarate LPDDR3 for an aggregate peak theoretical bandwidth figure of 25.6GB/s."
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This is exactly right. We get higher memory speeds from our RAM. Considering this is directly feeding our Adreno chip it's important. Just like with AMD APU's the higher the RAM speed the higher the GPU performance. Since we're pushing 1440p this is beneficial. For any other task this is negligible.
PLEASE STOP WITH MORE THAN 4GB OF RAM TALK Nobody needs more than 3.5gb 64 bit allows on a phone.
The biggest advantage with 64bit is ARM's v8 instruction set. We'll be able to do more per each cpu cycle.
Please read. http://www.androidcentral.com/why-64-bit-processors-really-matter-android

64bit kernel

Hello,
1- is it possible to compile moto x play kernel to arm x64 and use it?
2- Will it give any advantages over 32 bit kernel, eg. apps should run faster?
3- Why we have 32bit system when cpu supports ARM x64?
Thanks

Pararocker said:
Hello,
1- is it possible to compile moto x play kernel to arm x64 and use it?
2- Will it give any advantages over 32 bit kernel, eg. apps should run faster?
3- Why we have 32bit system when cpu supports ARM x64?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has already been told that the hardware isn't powerful enough to get the performance improvements with 64 bit software or kernel.
If the ram get ahead of 4gb, only then the real performance improvement of 64 bit can be seen.
Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

K.khiladi said:
If the ram get ahead of 4gb, only then the real performance improvement of 64 bit can be seen.
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Click to collapse
benchmarks don't support this. At least on desktop pcs with less than 4GB of RAM 64bit systems mostly were faster:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_x86_1304&num=1
Don't know about Android phones though

According to ARM the speed advantage is about 15-20% (see here). Of course the memory footprint is bigger. The Moto X Play has only 2GB RAM, so 64 bit may lose speed against 32 Bit if memory gets exhausted.
This is the same dimension like DroidFish would probably gain according to a mail from the author, which I asked some time ago:
Code:
[quote=tag]in a German Android forum someone insists that chess programs would be
much faster on 64 Bit Android. Do you agree? Would DroidFish for
instance make use of bigger data types, or do they exist already in 32
Bit Android?
[/quote]
The only functional difference in DroidFish when using 64 bit android is
that 6-men syzygy tablebases are supported. The DroidFish user interface
probably only get slightly faster by using 64-bit instructions. Chess
engines can gain quite a bit of speed by using 64-bit instructions though,
but how much they gain depends on the chess engine.
For the stockfish engine that is built into DroidFish I measured 16% speed
increase on my Nexus 6P when using 64-bit compared to 32-bit.
For my own chess engine texel the difference is much larger. The speed
increases about 68% when using 64-bit compared to 32-bit.
The difference can probably mostly be explained by the fact that stockfish
is heavily optimized both for 64-bit and 32-bit architectures, but texel
is only optimized for 64-bit architectures.

Pararocker said:
Hello,
1- is it possible to compile moto x play kernel to arm x64 and use it?
2- Will it give any advantages over 32 bit kernel, eg. apps should run faster?
3- Why we have 32bit system when cpu supports ARM x64?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Maybe, if we can maintain binary compatible with 32-bit userspace blobs. It may be doable with CONFIG_COMPAT and some hackery, but I've never tried such a thing before. I've been contemplating building a 64-bit ROM for lux (using a blend of lux blobs and blobs from 64-bit MSM8939 devices) for quite a while, but I've been too busy to even try, and I have higher priority tasks to take care of when I do get time (such as Audio HAL issues on CM13).
2. Yes, expect a 15-20% speedup. 64-bit sucks with 1 GB RAM, but 2 GB is fine.
3. Motorola wanted to make surnia, osprey, merlin, and lux as similar as possible, so they chose the lowest common denominator.

@squid2 Did you manage to make a 64 bit kernel, buddy?

Can anyone confirm that moto 5 plus use 64 bit android?

Asking for this because there is not a single thing like armv8a written in build.prop , So i guess we r using 32 bit android, also this is in build.prop
ro.product.cpu.abi=armeabi-v7a (not armv8)
ro.product.cpu.abi2=armeabi
ro.product.cpu.abilist64= (just empty)
ro.product.cpu.abilist32=armeabi-v7a,armeabi

JJSingh said:
Asking for this because there is not a single thing like armv8a written in build.prop , So i guess we r using 32 bit android, also this is in build.prop
ro.product.cpu.abi=armeabi-v7a (not armv8)
ro.product.cpu.abi2=armeabi
ro.product.cpu.abilist64= (just empty)
ro.product.cpu.abilist32=armeabi-v7a,armeabi
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Click to collapse
Yes bro its OS is 32 bit. Since its processor are based on armv7. And it won't be a trouble as the chip inside is not that powerful.

Ankit_29 said:
No bro. Common its 2017 almost every device is 64 bit.
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al the latest moto G phones have 64 bit processor and 32 bit system... and the g5 plus is not an exception.

Then the software of both devices is 32 bit? That's a little disappointing

dhk.- said:
al the latest moto G phones have 64 bit processor and 32 bit system... and the g5 plus is not an exception.
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Sorry I read it wrong. I thought he was talking about processor. Edited my post hope so this time I am correct.:silly:

dhk.- said:
al the latest moto G phones have 64 bit processor and 32 bit system... and the g5 plus is not an exception.
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Click to collapse
lol that is freking weird. but that matters? i mean upto how much extent. what if we had 64 bit os?

Thanks guys, i also did confirmed this myself ,os is 32 bit only although we have 64 bit compatible processor and even 4 gb ram . I donno whats wrong with motorola....

Ankit_29 said:
Yes bro its OS is 32 bit. Since its processor are based on armv7. And it won't be a trouble as the chip inside is not that powerful.
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Click to collapse
Bro snapdragon 625 is not a low end chip, it's powerful enough to run ur phone smooth, and it's based on armv8a and that makes it backward compatible to armv7....so this phone is supposed to run 64 bit os , but u knw moto

JJSingh said:
Thanks guys, i also did confirmed this myself ,os is 32 bit only although we have 64 bit compatible processor and even 4 gb ram . I donno whats wrong with motorola....
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Click to collapse
bcz i think to unify the system for all variants. g5 plus also has 2 and 3 gb ram varints. it must be something which moto has taken into account while pushing 32 bit. so i guess we are good here.lol

rayzen6 said:
bcz i think to unify the system for all variants. g5 plus also has 2 and 3 gb ram varints. it must be something which moto has taken into account while pushing 32 bit. so i guess we are good here.lol
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Click to collapse
Well i think u r right, 64 bit os would b heavy for 2 gb model... i hope we will get 64 bit lineage os sonn...

JJSingh said:
Bro snapdragon 625 is not a low end chip, it's powerful enough to run ur phone smooth, and it's based on armv8a and that makes it backward compatible to armv7....so this phone is supposed to run 64 bit os , but u knw moto
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Please let me know where I have said SD625 a "low-end chipset". As far I know and own the device and went through several test it shows armv7 (SS attached).

Ankit_29 said:
Please let me know where I have said SD625 a "low-end chipset". As far I know and own the device and went through several test it shows armv7 (SS attached).
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broo your imei.

@rayzen6
Thank you bro. I didn't noticed it.
I have changed it. Hope no one has downloaded the pic.

Ankit_29 said:
@rayzen6
Thank you bro. I didn't noticed it.
I have changed it. Hope no one has downloaded the pic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good:

JJSingh said:
Well i think u r right, 64 bit os would b heavy for 2 gb model... i hope we will get 64 bit lineage os sonn...
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Click to collapse
It is not software related. If the hardware is v7, you will not get 64 bit lineage

PunchUp said:
It is not software related. If the hardware is v7, you will not get 64 bit lineage
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Click to collapse
SD625 is 64-bit capable.

KapilFaujdar said:
SD625 is 64-bit capable.
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You don't get the point. Even if it is a 64 bit SOC, rest of the hardware follows v7 architecture (as SD625 is backward compatible). So it impossible to run 64 bit OS on this device.

What about ram usability
Since we are running a 32 bit Android version 4 GB ram variant is good can Android OS utilise all the 4gb of ram?

ags34 said:
Since we are running a 32 bit Android version 4 GB ram variant is good can Android OS utilise all the 4gb of ram?
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Click to collapse
4 GB is the maximum a 32 bit architecture can support. So yes, it's fully utilised

PunchUp said:
4 GB is the maximum a 32 bit architecture can support. So yes, it's fully utilised
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The physically addressable memory has not much to do with the "bitness" of the architecture. Most armv7a implementations support lpae (large physical address extension) and can thus address more than 4GB. Actually, I bet this extension is used on the 4GB variant as you also have I/O mapped into the physical address space and would be unable to utilize all of the RAM.
The 32 Bit architecture only confines the virtual address space *per process* to 4GB. Since some of that address space is used to map in shared objects (libraries), stack, kernel interfaces etc. you can usually only use 2-3 GB of RAM per process. This is hardly an issue for a phone (unless you run the Facebook app ). For servers (especially databases etc.) this limitation is an issue and the reason why 64 bit architectures are used there.
AArch64 has some other benefits, such as twice the amount of general purpose registers, 64 bit wide registers (obviously) which allow for 64 bit math, mandatory extensions (no need to check, compiler can just use NEON e.g.) etc. So it's sad that Motorola is not using the SoC's potential.
As for custom ROMs: You'd need a 64 bit kernel which supports the Moto's hardware, 64 bits gfx drivers. Not easy. And then you still need to hope that you can somehow convince the bootloader to boot your kernel in AArch64 state -- which may not be possible. Thus it is extremely unlikely that you get 64 bit support from the community.

Will 6gb vs. 8gb model impact installing custom roms?

Will 6gb vs. 8gb model impact installing custom roms?

Would upgrading the RAM in your laptop from 4GB to 8GB affect installing Windows 10?
A: No.

Elnrik said:
Would upgrading the RAM in your laptop from 4GB to 8GB affect installing Windows 10?
A: No.
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Well yes there's a difference - choosing between x86 and 64bit.

sl___ said:
Well yes there's a difference - choosing between x86 and 64bit.
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Click to collapse
Not like there are a lot of choices in custom ROMs where you have to decide between 32 and 64 bit versions...
But ok. Enjoy your 32 bit Windows.

Elnrik said:
Not like there are a lot of choices in custom ROMs where you have to decide between 32 and 64 bit versions...
But ok. Enjoy your 32 bit Windows.
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I'm not sure how I aggravated a snarky response, but I'll apologize for it.
Re: your analogy question with Windows 10, I answered yes there is a difference. Because after upgrading from 4gb to 8gb, you wouldn't want to sell yourself short by installing an x86 windows and be limited.
I'm not familiar with Android architecture, hence why I was posing this question about if if a 6gb/8gb version would impact compatibility with ROMs. Judging by your response, I'm guessing that's a no.

sl___ said:
I'm not sure how I aggravated a snarky response, but I'll apologize for it.
Re: your analogy question with Windows 10, I answered yes there is a difference. Because after upgrading from 4gb to 8gb, you wouldn't want to sell yourself short by installing an x86 windows and be limited.
I'm not familiar with Android architecture, hence why I was posing this question about if if a 6gb/8gb version would impact compatibility with ROMs. Judging by your response, I'm guessing that's a no.
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Sorry. It's been a Monday. Didn't mean to snark. (Lord I hate Mondays...)
IMO, there is little need to go above 6, let alone 8. But, if they're going to offer it, take advantage of it. The more you have, the greater number of apps can stay in flight, which also means less the OS has to constantly load from storage, etc.
A lot depends on how the OS handles RAM too - like how the Sammy GS7 had very aggressive RAM management when it came out, and it would close down background apps WAY too soon. Users noticed switching back and forth between apps took longer than it should because each time they switched apps it had to load it from storage back to RAM, which is very slow in comparison.
Then there is the strange concept some people have that you want to keep your RAM and background apps clear for better performance. A self-inflicted GS7 problem as a performance increase... *boggle*. If you examine how RAM works in a typical computer, it pretty much debunks that thought. Once data is in RAM, it's pretty CPU and power neutral (unless being called on). The argument can easily be made that it is more resource intensive to constantly load from storage into RAM, then clearing it asap, than it will ever be to simply accessing data already in RAM. My thought is the only bad RAM is unused RAM, so just let the OS do it's thing.
But regarding your question - no, the ROM probably doesn't care a lick how much RAM the device has, as long as it is enough to load itself, services, and the apps you want to run.

Why is everyone only building 64bit Oreo roms now?

It seems ever since 64bit roms were possible for Athene, all maintainers are only building 64bit Oreo roms, rather than 32bit. But what is the real benefit of this? From what I've noticed, 64bit roms have more issues than 32bit roms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the info I've gathered:
32bit rom bugs:
Camera
Torch
64bit ROM bugs:
Camera
Torch
GPS
System UI lags
Video recording
Not to mention 64bit roms have more ram consumption, which isn't good for those who have the 2GB version of Athene.
I think maintainers should continue building 32bit versions of their roms along with 64bit to give users more options. Just a thought.

There is absolutely no reason why a 64 bit Android should be on our devices. Will not add any performance, the memory is max 4GB (3.6GB available with 32 bit), 64 bit native apps take more space in memory, CPU is not fully equipped for 64 bit OS (32 bit memory bus)...

Skeptico said:
It seems ever since 64bit roms were possible for Athene, all maintainers are only building 64bit Oreo roms, rather than 32bit. But what is the real benefit of this? From what I've noticed, 64bit roms have more issues than 32bit roms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the info I've gathered:
32bit rom bugs:
Camera
Torch
64bit ROM bugs:
Camera
Torch
GPS
System UI lags
Video recording
Not to mention 64bit roms have more ram consumption, which isn't good for those who have the 2GB version of Athene.
I think maintainers should continue building 32bit versions of their roms along with 64bit to give users more options. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is: most maintains uses one device tree for 64bit which will be developed.(correct me if I'm wrong).
So if the 32bit source won't be developed, you must switch to the other one.

ok, but 64bits mainteners are on the same stage: no progress.
lot of 64bits roms are compiled without any debugging.

murigny64 said:
ok, but 64bits mainteners are on the same stage: no progress.
lot of 64bits roms are compiled without any debugging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I wrote: they use the same device tree/source hence the bugs are present on nearly all 8.1 builds and. You need to fix the camera issues in the device source not the rom source as its a problem of not available drivers and you need to shim it.
---------- Post added at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------
SoNic67 said:
There is absolutely no reason why a 64 bit Android should be on our devices. Will not add any performance, the memory is max 4GB (3.6GB available with 32 bit), 64 bit native apps take more space in memory, CPU is not fully equipped for 64 bit OS (32 bit memory bus)...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People demand it permanently, that's the real reason for it.

strongst said:
People demand it permanently, that's the real reason for it.
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This is the most vital reason. If perfected you get portrait mode which most people will be crazy about

64 (bit) is double the value of 32 (bit), so it must be far better, faster, sexier, whatever... :silly:

thorin0815 said:
64 (bit) is double the value of 32 (bit), so it must be far better, faster, sexier, whatever... :silly:
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Click to collapse
Yeah another reason.... Like Megapixel in case of quality....

You can use marshmallow. Bug free, 32 bit, torch works.

32bit was rather good since the only plus i see is Google camera which i don't really care. Bugs could be fixed on 64bit which isn't a issue. But the thing is 32BIT is dying, all oems are going through the trend of 64bit and the support for 32bit is slowly dead.
64bit is the way to go.
Orelse you guys should be on Nougat.

Just because marketing wise it's successful, it doesn't mean it will be better.
Especially when Moto doesn't develop 64 bit drivers.
But yes, stupidity always wins in the end because it's unrelenting.

That's because the ROM "builders" are not technically aware imho or maybe they just want to ignore the facts.
Fact is, this device houses a 32 bit bus. Busses are responsible for transferring data signals. When you are using a 32 bit system, the data is transported in one go but in the case of 64 bit roms, the data has to be transported in 2 turns ie the latency gets doubled. More the latency, lesser responsive your system. Yes you can reduce the latency by overclocking the bus, but doing that can only get you max to max 10% efficiency, overall the system is still lagging by 40%. This might not be noticeable on 3gb+ variants because of the obvious reasons but it gets pretty evident in the versions having 2gb ram.
We cannot get over this hardware limitation no matter what. It would be utterly stupid to shift to 64 bit roms for this device. A 32bit ROM should outperform any 64bit ROM easily. That's just my 2 cents tho, I would any day prefer a 32 bit ROM over any other.

hell_lock said:
That's because the ROM "builders" are not technically aware imho or maybe they just want to ignore the facts.
Fact is, this device houses a 32 bit bus. Busses are responsible for transferring data signals. When you are using a 32 bit system, the data is transported in one go but in the case of 64 bit roms, the data has to be transported in 2 turns ie the latency gets doubled. More the latency, lesser responsive your system. Yes you can reduce the latency by overclocking the bus, but doing that can only get you max to max 10% efficiency, overall the system is still lagging by 40%. This might not be noticeable on 3gb+ variants because of the obvious reasons but it gets pretty evident in the versions having 2gb ram.
We cannot get over this hardware limitation no matter what. It would be utterly stupid to shift to 64 bit roms for this device. A 32bit ROM should outperform any 64bit ROM easily. That's just my 2 cents tho, I would any day prefer a 32 bit ROM over any other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well hopefully most of the maintainers for our device read this, and then stop building 64bit ROMs. You've confirmed my suspicion that it's basically pointless.

Frostbite said:
You can use marshmallow. Bug free, 32 bit, torch works.
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Click to collapse
If there were security patches for it, I would love to do for sure!

You guys remember that discussion https://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-g4-plus/help/64bit-roms-t3634876 now it's known that there's no real benefit and more problems with 64bit :silly:

hell_lock said:
That's because the ROM "builders" are not technically aware imho or maybe they just want to ignore the facts.
Fact is, this device houses a 32 bit bus. Busses are responsible for transferring data signals. When you are using a 32 bit system, the data is transported in one go but in the case of 64 bit roms, the data has to be transported in 2 turns ie the latency gets doubled. More the latency, lesser responsive your system. Yes you can reduce the latency by overclocking the bus, but doing that can only get you max to max 10% efficiency, overall the system is still lagging by 40%. This might not be noticeable on 3gb+ variants because of the obvious reasons but it gets pretty evident in the versions having 2gb ram.
We cannot get over this hardware limitation no matter what. It would be utterly stupid to shift to 64 bit roms for this device. A 32bit ROM should outperform any 64bit ROM easily. That's just my 2 cents tho, I would any day prefer a 32 bit ROM over any other.
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If you have the data greater than the 32bit system instruction set, you have to run the cycle twice.
64Bit doesn't mean you everytime have to run the cycle twice Imo.
When it's needed, it's done.

krypticallusion said:
If you have the data greater than the 32bit system instruction set, you have to run the cycle twice.
64Bit doesn't mean you everytime have to run the cycle twice Imo.
When it's needed, it's done.
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Click to collapse
It's not about the data. A 64bit system uses 64 bits for referencing the memory. So when you're running any app or anything, the cpu has to wait twice the normal time to get the next instruction.

hell_lock said:
It's not about the data. A 64bit system uses 64 bits for referencing the memory. So when you're running any app or anything, the cpu has to wait twice the normal time to get the next instruction.
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Stay on N 32-bit and enjoy :')

Dreamstar said:
Stay on 32-bit and enjoy :')
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But look at the title of the thread: that's exactly the problem.
All those 32 bit ROMs are stalled, no security updates or development anymore ..
(Of course everybody is free to compile himself, I know).

Dreamstar said:
Stay on 32-bit and enjoy :')
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If you and other maintainers would continue building 32bit Oreo ROMs, then sure. But no one is anymore...