I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
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Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Click to collapse
I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
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Click to collapse
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
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Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.
Hello,
I am doing an experiment since few days ago. I noticed that if you disable the Fast Charging, and (most importantly) use a proper, thick 2A USB cable (I use a Kindle Fire original cable) then the battery lasts around 15-20% longer.
How to recognize that you got a proper USB charging cable ? With fast charging disabled and the battery empty, the phone should tell you that there are around 2 hours until full (instead of the usual 7 hours or so with fast charging disabled). That's when you know that you are using the proper cable. I bought a original Kindle Fire cable from Amazon and that is very solid, much thicker than the standard cable. See attached screenshot. With the standard cable this seems to be a hit and miss, you sometimes get the 2 hours message and sometimes the 7 hours message.
I repeated the experiment 3 times and each time I got significantly better battery life than before.
You may want to try it to see if it works for you.
PS: Attached is my latest battery life screenshot (APC8 firmware), which is the third charge since the experiment. 2 days 6 hours of stand-by with 5h SOT on a mix of 80% Wi-Fi, 20% 4G with nothing disabled (even Bluetooth is permanently connected to the LG smartwatch). Almost no videos played, only web page browsing which is quite demanding on battery.
Look if new software update is possible.
Yeah, I noticed that my battery life was worse when I used a ****ty 1 Ah Sony charger when I displaced the original Samsung charger. It took about 3 hours to charge it up to 100%, but then I noticed that the battery life would be worse than before. I found the original charger again, and battery life is back to being good again. I never use fast charging, unless it's in the middle of the day and I'm heading out or something.
None of the things mentioned above should (technically) have any impact on battery life once unplugged? I mean, stored electricity is stored electricity, so if someone QUALIFIED could give an explanation here, it would be cool.
Nothing new, I've always noticed that if I charge the phone with the original charger and fast charging disabled it will last much longer.
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-Micro-USB-Cable-Tablets/dp/B006GWO5NE
This cable? Which AC adapter do you use?
None of this solutions should impact battery life Oo. Energy is energy, no matter where it comes from?!
Would be nice, if someone qualified could tell us more..
Do you have the newest android version installed?
By the way, I only charge with original charger and cable, fast charge disabled (battery life is longer?!)
Battery life depends on how well you follow charging & discharging cycle. I usually fully discharge my battery (so that phone will shut down by itself after dropping below 1% charging), then charge it fully keeping it switched off & then use it.
I always had far better battery life than most people complain about.
BTW, I also tried charging battery keeping phone switched on at 10-15% charge remaining, battery definitely performed weaker for my use.
So that confirmed my theory based on my usage over last 7 years..
thegame2388 said:
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-Micro-USB-Cable-Tablets/dp/B006GWO5NE
This cable? Which AC adapter do you use?
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Yes, this is the exact cable I am using. A bit expensive, but for me it was the only cable that consistently worked at 2A over time.
J.Biden said:
I mean, stored electricity is stored electricity, so if someone QUALIFIED could give an explanation here, it would be cool.
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BigDoun2011 said:
Would be nice, if someone qualified could tell us more..
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I wonder if Qnovo is qualified enough ? Their technology is employed in many charging solutions. Here is what they say:
"Add fast charging - it gets noticeably worse. It turns out that the simple way batteries are charged today causes most of the damage that leads to shorter daily battery life and reduced lifespan."
Cst79 said:
Yes, this is the exact cable I am using. A bit expensive, but for me it was the only cable that consistently worked at 2A over time.
I wonder if Qnovo is qualified enough ? Their technology is employed in many charging solutions. Here is what they say:
"Add fast charging - it gets noticeably worse. It turns out that the simple way batteries are charged today causes most of the damage that leads to shorter daily battery life and reduced lifespan."
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Click to collapse
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
thegame2388 said:
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
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In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
Cst79 said:
In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
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Ah okay. I went ahead and bought one!
It ' also the logical thing. With fast charging , the battery holds less charge than the "normal . " He just spoke in various forums of this.
Anyway , great idea.
How to maintain max battery life span (reliable source):
Perform shallow discharges. Instead of discharging to 0% all the time, lithium-ion batteries do best when you discharge them for a little bit, then charge them for a little bit. The table below, from Battery University, shows that discharges to 50% are better for your battery's long-term life than, say, small discharges to 90% or large discharges to 0% (since the 50% discharges provide the best number of cycles-to-usage ratio).
·Don't leave it fully charged. Similarly, lithium-ion batteries don't need to be charged all the way to 100%. In fact, they'd prefer not to be—so the 40%-80% rule you heard is a good guideline. When possible, keep it in that range to prolong its life as long as you can. And, if you do charge it to 100%, don't leave it plugged in. This is something most of us do, but it's another thing that will degrade your battery's health. If you need to charge it overnight, use something like the Belkin Conserve Socket to stop it from charging after it's full.
·Fully discharge it once a month. This may seem contradictory, but hear us out. While lithium-ion batteries shouldn't be discharged regularly, most modern batteries are what's known as "smart batteries", which means that they can tell you how long you have until your battery dies (e.g. "2 hours, 15 minutes remaining"). This feature can get miscalibrated after a lot of shallow discharges. So, manufacturers recommend fully discharging your battery once a month to make sure this stays accurate.
Cst79 said:
In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
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But you stated that it increases battery life.
thegame2388 said:
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
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What he's saying is that a slower charge equals a longer lasting battery between charges.
But maybe that doesn't apply to Li-ion batteries, according to this link here.
Outbreak444 said:
What he's saying is that a slower charge equals a longer lasting battery between charges.
But maybe that doesn't apply to Li-ion batteries, according to this link here.
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You can try it for yourself (if you have an S7/Edge) and report the results here. I posted my results, I'm not an expert, I just tried this. I also tried the 7-hour slow charge (with a different charger) and it didn't work as well as the 2-hour charge. The 2 hour charge seems to work best.
Yeah, If you use fast charging the battery dies a little bit quicker. I recommend fast charging if you are in hurry.
I only use fast charge when I'm in hurry.. Nice feature! I try to charge my phone between 25-80%...
p2kin said:
Battery life depends on how well you follow charging & discharging cycle. I usually fully discharge my battery (so that phone will shut down by itself after dropping below 1% charging), then charge it fully keeping it switched off & then use it..
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Worst thing you can do for the lifespan of an Li battery.
meyerweb said:
Worst thing you can do for the lifespan of an Li battery.
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I disagree, even though it switches off itself, it still has charge, don't go by it says 1%.. so it's not fully discharged... besides my method served a good battery life to me over the years with earlier phone models
Ive bought my n6p a few days back but is already a second hand.
Though its in perfect condition I would still love to take care of the battery since I know theres been a large chunks of battery cycle depleted already.
An average li-ion has about 300-500 charges before battery shows signs of deterioration.
In order to increase the battery life cycle, charging it with only 4.05 volts as conpsred to 4.20+ is the best way to take care of li-ion cells.
The problem is, the charger that comes with n6p produces volts from 4.16 as the minimum up to 4.4+ which is basicslly dtressful to the battery, plus letting it be plugged in to 100% increases temperature and so on.
I can go on.
Now, I have the habit and got an app that will chsrge the battery judt to 78% or 85% which turns down voltage just below 4.2, however there sre still instances that the voltage goes more than 4.2 even though im using a standard 900mah charger and not the rapid charger (original usb cable from huawei type a-std)
The question is, is there anyway to turn down voltage for n6p?
If not, any electrical engineer or anyone who has great knowledge backed with experience here to tell the comunity if chsrging in 4.2+ v is safe for n6p and why? Thanks
Charge voltage above 4,23ish is not good for lithium battery cells. Mine has a reported battery voltage of 4,4 volts.(!!)
As to the actual science of overcharging/over-volting lithium batteries, I don't think there's any long term 500-1000 charge cycle data. I do however have experience from radiocontrolled 1/8 scale lithium powered cars. Absolutely none of the lithium battery sellers or charger manufactors approve charging over 4,2volts. If you have a higher end charger you can push them to 4,25v-4,35v for cheaty improved off-the-line race starts but the charger will beep and complain/warn you constantly about the risks.
I was slightly concerned about charge voltage aswell, optimum charge modes for lithium cells are constant current ie 1800 mAh for this device until battery reaches 4,05 ish volts then constant voltage until 4,2v but it seems that phone manufacturers are either calibrating the measurement data or pushing the charge rate for convenience. If the latter is true you have all the right to call it planned obsolescence if the non-existent science of overvoltage charging is correct. The most accurate way to measure battery voltage would be to probe the battery directly while charging and while fully charged with a digital multimeter