Database Users

OnePlus 5 dual camera behavior

After taking a few pictures with the tele camera I noticed some really weird artifacts. After testing a little bit more I noticed that the tele camera is not always used.
So today I did some controlled tests. Set up a close scene, took a picture with the wide camera (from approx 25 cm), switched to 2x, then switched back to 1x and zoomed in by getting the phone closed.
While I was taking the 2nd picture the phone was clearly switching between cropping the wide camera and using the tele camera (with a slight change in frame size and angle).
The result is that many times the phone uses only the wide camera or switches to the tele camera at will, without providing any information to the user. Accordingly, one's pictures might only be cropped versions of the data from the wide camera, with the inherited artifacts.
Am I the only one noticing this?
Here are the three pics:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/3e4169610070483
http://www.imagebam.com/image/b01c20610070533
http://www.imagebam.com/image/116deb610070573
PS: The phone is running Oxygen OS v4.5.10

redo the test.
A guy did a lot of test on a tri-pod and then compared the pictures very closely on a computer.
Both camera are always used, but most of the time one add a little bit of sharpness in the picture.
Not because you cover on lens, that it means it's not working. It only means that the pictures wont be as sharp, but the difference is very minimal.
Here how it works;
In good light conditions, the 20Mp sensor is used for the x2 zoom. It does not switch to 16Mp. On the other hand as soon as the light becomes insufficient it switches on the 16Mp to zoom at x2. And uses the 20Mp to improve the photo; giving it more details.
When the light condition is average and the 20Mp is hidden, at this time it switches to the 16Mp, but without hiding it, it stays on the 20Mp and uses the 16 for more detail and exposure.
This as been said, in some condition, such as very dark scene, the 20mp, could not be used at all, hard to see since the pictures are too dark.

Has anyone found out how to decouple the two back cameras on stock oos?
Sometimes I'd like to make that lens choice myself, but still be able to use the OOS Camera at other times.
On stock, the two back cameras behave as one with all the third party apps I've tried.
On custom ROMs, the phone shows three cameras.

Use S10+ 2nd front camera to take photos?, it actually has a wider field of view!

Hi.
I was wondering if there's a possibility to actually take pictures with the 2nd "depth" sensor camera on the S10 Plus. I know for a fact that the stock camera App doesn't let you use it, other than to assist the primary camera for the "Live Focus" mode.
Nonetheless, if you type *#0*# on the phone App, you can access a test menu, in which you can actually take pictures and see the difference between these 2 front cameras.
I've attached 2 examples that I took, there you can appreciate that the second camera actually has a considerable wider field of view (in comparison to the primary one, though the quality is inferior), which would be really useful for group selfies, since the "Wide Selfie Mode" from the S9 was removed for some reason.
It would be awesome if someone finds a way to use the 2nd front camera to take wider selfies-

is there no possible way to use the wider front camera? (depth sensor), it would be a bummer since it has nearly the same field of view as the ultra wide angle selfie cam on the LG V50.
Additionally, is there a way to recover the ultra wide selfies mode from the S8?

There has to be a way to use the 2nd camera. As for wide selfie mode, there's probably an app or theme out that lets you do it, but I am not sure.

StoneyJSG said:
There has to be a way to use the 2nd camera. As for wide selfie mode, there's probably an app or theme out that lets you do it, but I am not sure.
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Yeah, my thoughts exactly, but there's also a possibility that Samsung is not providing any API to access the 2nd front camera, which would be a real shame.

U are right!! Camera capture my quadtriple chin

Samsung Motion Photo? Use SGS10 Camera app?

A70 is so nice I almost pulled the trigger on it, when during testing I noticed... huh? No Motion Picture in photos?
I checked Samsung's page and it's true, there is no Motion Picture for A-series phones.
I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, but with 2 small kids this feature (I'm using SGS7 now) paid itself in gold - not the moving part, but the fact that I can effortlessly "rewind time". Those with children know that they can do something magical for few seconds, and by the time you snapped photo it's already gone - well, with Motion Photo the phone is saving sensor output from camera app start. This means that I can trigger camera when puling the phone from my pocket, aim, snap photo, then rewind 3 frames back and save THAT picture.
I tested Gcam and while it has similar feature, it's not nearly as polished - first, Samsung's saves frames only BEFORE snapping the photo, second, it's much more difficult to crop single frame, third - the picture quality of Samsung Motion Photo is far, far superior compared to that from Gcam.
So my question is - is this app or processing system limitation? If it's the app, is it possible to use camera app from e.g. SGS10 to get Motion Picture?

Maybe we should wait for a camera app port from s10 to get motion photo and also to get pro mode

Stasheck said:
A70 is so nice I almost pulled the trigger on it, when during testing I noticed... huh? No Motion Picture in photos?
I checked Samsung's page and it's true, there is no Motion Picture for A-series phones.
I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, but with 2 small kids this feature (I'm using SGS7 now) paid itself in gold - not the moving part, but the fact that I can effortlessly "rewind time". Those with children know that they can do something magical for few seconds, and by the time you snapped photo it's already gone - well, with Motion Photo the phone is saving sensor output from camera app start. This means that I can trigger camera when puling the phone from my pocket, aim, snap photo, then rewind 3 frames back and save THAT picture.
I tested Gcam and while it has similar feature, it's not nearly as polished - first, Samsung's saves frames only BEFORE snapping the photo, second, it's much more difficult to crop single frame, third - the picture quality of Samsung Motion Photo is far, far superior compared to that from Gcam.
So my question is - is this app or processing system limitation? If it's the app, is it possible to use camera app from e.g. SGS10 to get Motion Picture?
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Click to collapse
It's an app limitation. You can use other cam apps from play store for motion picture though.

I've installed Gcam (google photos apk) and I can make Motion Photos with it. It's a shame samsung does not update A70 firmware to be able to make these too.
Just make sure you install a compatible Gcam version. Not all of them are. Search google for "a70 gcam" and you'll find one which is compatible.
Regards,
Francis

http://cyanogenmods.org/galaxy-a70-google-camera-7-0/

Thanks a lot Sklks.

Photo quality

Say "cheese", then rate this thread to express how photos taken with the Sony Xperia 5 II come out. A higher rating indicates that photos offer rich color (without over-saturating), sharp detail (with all subjects in-focus), and appropriate exposure (with even lighting).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

Expect chromatic aberration in photos (widest lens), or I'd say CA in photos of X5 ii is a bit easier to detect than my previous Galaxy S10. Minimum focus distance is also quite long... also compared to my S10.
On the other hand, I like the Pro photo mode with AE-L and 3:2 aspect ratio option.

lokto7 said:
Expect chromatic aberration in photos (widest lens), or I'd say CA in photos of X5 ii is a bit easier to detect than my previous Galaxy S10. Minimum focus distance is also quite long... also compared to my S10.
On the other hand, I like the Pro photo mode with AE-L and 3:2 aspect ratio option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well: look at this:
https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-5-camera-test-1167092/
in the HDR chapter:
"Next, I want to draw your attention to something in the following two sample sets. The Google Pixel 5 suffers badly from chromatic aberration (the purple hue seen in between the tree leaves). The Huawei P40 Pro has the same problem, but the effect is limited to the upper left corner of the lens. The Galaxy and Xperia handsets have no such issue. Once again, shadow noise rears its head in the Pixel 5’s shots"

Please see an example here https://we.tl/t-mLwMGMoF9H

ok, ultra wide angle lens?- I guess the test I linked from was for the standard lens

Picture is very good-great, the colors are natural, no over-sharpening, the noise is natural, but, it can sometimes happen to overexpose the image, sony did a great job for the camera..
Overall, camera software requires some minor tweaks to be top notch.. The best is, no pixel (finally) binning, true 12mp, large pixel size.

very good photo quality!
zujko said:
Picture is very good-great, the colors are natural, no over-sharpening, the noise is natural, but, it can sometimes happen to overexpose the image, sony did a great job for the camera..
Overall, camera software requires some minor tweaks to be top notch.. The best is, no pixel (finally) binning, true 12mp, large pixel size.
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I totally quote. I am happy to find a similar look / color rendition to my Sony Full Frame mirrorless. Photo pro app does a great job, especially in "normal" (not too low) light conditions. Color rendition is natural. After Huaweis Mate (only missing the b/w sensor of the P20pro!) this Xperia is fresh air.

With good Light the Camera make good Photos, but i really have Focus issues for Quick Fotos. Its not that im Shaking or something but at 1 of 3 Photos im must repeat and then the Focus is about right. As you can see in the Attachement.
I know that Sony will fix this Problem but when 1/3 from the Photos are just not sharp for a 900 Dollar Phone its a little Dissapointing.

You are from Basel
I think, photo-quality is ok, but I would have expected more (comming from an XZ1 compact).... - Especialy the selfie-camera was better on the XZ1 compact, because it had 120° angle mode.

That certainly not encouraging to hear that. I looking at both Xperia 1 II and 5 II for quite a while already. Still not impressed with the camera system at all - the only selling point of this phone to my opinion. Can't find the proof that new Xperias can beat my old Pixel 3 or even Pixel 1 (which is the most colour accurate of all to my opinion). Can't remember of getting out of focus photos from Pixel 3.
---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 AM ----------
For some reason this tread is nearly empty - no encouraging, mind-blowing photos. And this is quite suspicious. Why is that? Xperia 5 II / 1 II can't really shine in it? Or messing with Pro mode leave to time to take a great shot? Please upload more photos showing that new Xperia camera system is any better than others, especially against "so unnatural" Pixels.

skilli said:
With good Light the Camera make good Photos, but i really have Focus issues for Quick Fotos. Its not that im Shaking or something but at 1 of 3 Photos im must repeat and then the Focus is about right. As you can see in the Attachement.
I know that Sony will fix this Problem but when 1/3 from the Photos are just not sharp for a 900 Dollar Phone its a little Dissapointing.
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Completely agree with it. I'd be very disappointed If I bought photo-oriented $900 smartphone and found the low light photos coming out in "quality" like yours. I believe my $50 old dinky Pixel 1 does better job. In this case "Photo Pro photographer guys" will say that you have to use Photo Pro app every single time, Sony fanboys will say that you have got a faulty unit. To my opinion it's just failure to deliver the quality everyone expected from the company which makes the best camera sensors.

Here is an additional take on photo quality.
Main lens (wide angle) in AUTO mode (with standard / Pro apps):
Good:
- Noiseless pictures. Much improved from previous generation.
- Natural looking blur in out-of focus areas (ex: background). Can create natural bokeh for cats, faces, macro, etc.
- Contrary to what some people say, good dynamic range because the auto HDR mode turns on when needed in most cases. Note that in the Pro app, you can use touch metering and still keep HDR active, a nice addition.
- Good pictures in low light: very low noise and not too much unnatural brightening of scene.
- Mostly no lens flares on standard intensity lights. (improved from Xperia 5)
Not so good:
- Focus issues at night: lack of TOF and no pre-flash sometimes leads to focus misses. Solution is to use the Pro app with continuous focus ON (mode is not available in standard app). Most often this allows phones to acquire focus except in total darkness.
- Focus issues with far subjects, such as landscape. Sometimes the camera just won't focus at all. Solution is to use tap to focus (in Pro app, this means you have to turn OFF continuous focus)
- Focus issues with eye / face detection: it's just not always accurate. Again, much better results with tap to focus.
- Very bad lens flares (light streaks) when facing a brighter light at some angles. (much worse than Xperia 5). So much for the Zeiss lens!. This issue can sometimes be solved by placing your hand to block the strong light near the lens.
- Color temperature is a bit too cold. Especially visible in darker environments.
What about non-auto modes ?
Good:
- You can set everything as you wish in Pro app.
Not so Good:
- As in previous generations, you will get a lot more noise than in auto mode, esp. beyond 200 ISO. Makes is useless for me. One solution would be using RAW and applying your own denoising filters, but you loose HDR and I didn't get much better results anyways.
- Takes more time to adjust: not suitable for quick shots.
What about the other lenses ?
- Ultra wide gives ok results. Not worse than other flagships from what I've seen.
- Zoom lens is more noisy. Only suitable in daylight IMO.
- Selfie: never used.
My conclusion:
- With Xperia 5 II, you can get great pictures with a photographic look in the right situations. But some pictures may out-of-focus and some will get bad lens flares. Also it needs too much attention to settings for me.
- So I sold the phone and kept my Xperia 5 1st gen. Photos have a bit more noise, but it's more dependable in focusing and rarely misses a picture. Colors are also warmer and more accurate at least to my taste.
Note that Xperia 1 II may not have these focusing issues but I didn't try it.
Some examples:
Xperia 5 II: flares
Xperia 5: no flare
Xperia 5 II: bad focus at night
Xperia 5: better focus at night
Xperia 5 II: natural bokeh
Xperia 5: not much bokeh
Xperia 5 II: less noise
Xperia 5: more noise
Xperia 5 II: the 3 lenses:
Ultra wide
wide
zoom

Some other pics from X5 II (in right situations)
(<- with zoom lens)
(<- ultra wide lens)

skilli said:
With good Light the Camera make good Photos, but i really have Focus issues for Quick Fotos. Its not that im Shaking or something but at 1 of 3 Photos im must repeat and then the Focus is about right. As you can see in the Attachement.
I know that Sony will fix this Problem but when 1/3 from the Photos are just not sharp for a 900 Dollar Phone its a little Dissapointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately this is my experience with it as well. Once light conditions aren't perfect the camera struggles with focusing and stops delivering good photos. Also the water painting effect isn't something unusual here which is not acceptable for over $900 camera-phone. Just wondering whether Xperia 1 II is better in this regard? Maybe TOF helps somehow?

For focus issues: are you using stock app or PhotoPro app in auto mode?
I haven't noticed any focus issue but I always use PhotoPro

asvaberg said:
For focus issues: are you using stock app or PhotoPro app in auto mode?
I haven't noticed any focus issue but I always use PhotoPro
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I'm also a little bit worried about the camera quality and focus...I'm using PhotoPro but it doesn't looks so good, but I don't regret switching from P30 pro

I'm considering buying the phone and the cameras are the most important for me, so my most important questions are - is there raw format shooting for all three lenses and what are their maximum exposure settings(seconds), cause with my current mi note 10 pro I was able to shoot the milky way, and expect this phone to be able also...

bo6o said:
I'm considering buying the phone and the cameras are the most important for me, so my most important questions are - is there raw format shooting for all three lenses and what are their maximum exposure settings(seconds), cause with my current mi note 10 pro I was able to shoot the milky way, and expect this phone to be able also...
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Hello, you can shoot raw on all the 3 lenses. Maximum exposure time it's 30 sec. Unfortunately, I wouldn't recommend you this device for making photos, I'm coming from a P30 pro and I'm really disappointed with the overall quality of the photos, so you better start looking for another device....

robi101012981 said:
Hello, you can shoot raw on all the 3 lenses. Maximum exposure time it's 30 sec. Unfortunately, I wouldn't recommend you this device for making photos, I'm coming from a P30 pro and I'm really disappointed with the overall quality of the photos, so you better start looking for another device....
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Are you talking for jpg quality, or raw?
Cause I'm not planning to use jpg for serious shooting, as I did with my real camera. I like to produce my own jpgs and I know how to use the 3 main(in smartphones 2) settings.
Can anyone provide me with a raw sample from each of the lenses. Would appreciate it.

bo6o said:
Are you talking for jpg quality, or raw?
Cause I'm not planning to use jpg for serious shooting, as I did with my real camera. I like to produce my own jpgs and I know how to use the 3 main(in smartphones 2) settings.
Can anyone provide me with a raw sample from each of the lenses. Would appreciate it.
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Raw, of course,I don't shoot jpeg because I like to edit my photos

S20+ Tele Image Resolution is Fake - It's a 1X optical!

Okay, I understand (what many others don't) that although the S20+ is listed as a 3X-30X zoom, the actual optical zoom is 1.08 so the focal length of the actual lens is basically the same as the non-zoom camera. This is unlike say the S10 5G which the actual lens of the camera is 2X. However Samsung makes up for this by using a 64MP sensor. This basically results in as good or better zoom shots up to about 5X zoom than a phone with a tele-camera with a 2X or 3X optical zoom lens but only a 12MP or 16MP sensor.
This is a bit astonishing considering the number of pixels decreased by the zoom factor squared when using digital zoom. So, the lowest zoom of the tele lens on the S20+ at 3X is essentially a 7MP sensor. 3 squared is 9. 64MP divided by 9 is 7.1MP. Compared to say the S10 5G which has a 2X optical zoom and 12MP sensor. So a 3X zoom for the S10 5G is a 1.5X digital zoom of the 2X optical. 1.5 squared = 2.25. 12MP/2.25 = 5.3MP. So you can see how the S20+ can keep up with other cameras with 2X or 3X optical zoom but only 12MP sensors. It's notable though that with 2X zoom, a camera with a 12MP sensor and a 2X optical zoom has a higher resolution image than the S20+ at 2X zoom since the S20+ doesn't have an optical zoom lens.
What's more interesting is the 64MP sensor on the S20+ has a 0.8um pixel pitch which means the sensor is roughly 9,500 pixels by 7,150. So at 3X zoom the sensor output is going to be digitally cropped to around 3,160 x 2,380. However no matter what zoom resolution you use, Samsung outputs a 4032x3024 size image, basically "faking" the resolution for all images taken at anything over 1X zoom. The file size goes down as the zoom goes up even though the image resolution stays at 4032x3024 because the JPEG compression algorithm basically can see it's a fake resolution (essentially a lower resolution source image interpolated up to a higher resolution.)
I'm not sure why manufacturers do this except for only from a customer satisfaction perspective as people would be complaining why their 10X zoom images are only 950 x 715 pixels. Yes, S20+ users, that is roughly the true resolution of a 10X zoom image from your phone. But consider on a 12MP sensor with 1X optical lens, that true cropped resolution is closer to 400x300!
The bottom line is the S20+ Tele Camera is basically equivalent in resolution to a phone with a 12MP camera with a 2.5X optical zoom because it's not actually an optical zoom lens. So Samsung's advertising it as a 3X "hybrid optic zoom" isn't a total lie, but 2.5x would be closer to accurate as far as the equivalent of an optical zoom on a 12MP sensor.
In reviewing tests images, to get the best images on this camera you just want to use one of the 3 cameras without manually zooming in. If you do zoom in on the tele camera, try to not go above 5X.

And no true optical zoom = no depth compression and distorted perspectives. Portraits look like crap. Fisheye effect still there, only mitigated by the fact that only the central part of the view is kept. For real portrait you need a phone with a real 2x or 3x optical zoom lens. I should have known better before buying...

Latoc said:
And no true optical zoom = no depth compression and distorted perspectives. Portraits look like crap. Fisheye effect still there, only mitigated by the fact that only the central part of the view is kept. For real portrait you need a phone with a real 2x or 3x optical zoom lens. I should have known better before buying...
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It's especially ridiculous considering the low-end S20 FE has 3X optical (although with only an 8MP sensor). I can only think the reason was to create more of a separation between the Plus and the Ultra to better justify the higher price of the Ultra with the 3X optical + 108MP sensor. They should have just put the 2X optical on it from last year's S10 5G instead of a ridiculous 1.08X.

jazee said:
It's especially ridiculous considering the low-end S20 FE has 3X optical (although with only an 8MP sensor). I can only think the reason was to create more of a separation between the Plus and the Ultra to better justify the higher price of the Ultra with the 3X optical + 108MP sensor. They should have just put the 2X optical on it from last year's S10 5G instead of a ridiculous 1.08X.
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Click to collapse
I think the Ultra has a straight 5x zoom, like the P40 Pro. Useless for portrait (way too much zoom), so portraits are done on the main sensor with a crop to simulate a 2x zoom !
WTF !

Latoc said:
I think the Ultra has a straight 5x zoom, like the P40 Pro. Useless for portrait (way too much zoom), so portraits are done on the main sensor with a crop to simulate a 2x zoom !
WTF !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're both wrong, it's a 4X optical on the Ultra. I was confusing it with the 3x "hybrid optical" zoom spec on the plus. "Hybrid Optical?" that's just another label for "Forced Digital Zoom." At least on the Plus.

jazee said:
We're both wrong, it's a 4X optical on the Ultra. I was confusing it with the 3x "hybrid optical" zoom spec on the plus. "Hybrid Optical?" that's just another label for "Forced Digital Zoom." At least on the Plus.
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Samsung is not the only one, I just got myself a Sony Xperia 5 II, thinking the 3x zoom would make nice portraits, only to find out the quality was so bad it made me want to cry (900 euros). Upon searching for answers, I found out that it too is a crop, from a 20 mpx sensor this time...
At least if you get an iphone you have true zoom... I'm tempted. But boy do I hate iOS.

AFAIKl, the zoom lenses are used when the light conditions are optimal, also have an iphone and i can assure you, it also uses crop when the scene is underlit. So you are not missing on anything. But i can say, camera's on smartphone still suck (personal opinion: i use mirrorless for photography).

sushant1thakran said:
AFAIKl, the zoom lenses are used when the light conditions are optimal, also have an iphone and i can assure you, it also uses crop when the scene is underlit. So you are not missing on anything. But i can say, camera's on smartphone still suck (personal opinion: i use mirrorless for photography).
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Yes, I have an APS-C sensor camera for when I'm *planning* to take photos of important events, on trips, etc and I don't mind carrying it around (although it is jacket pocketable because it's an APS-C platform.) The problem is, in the practical reality of life, some of the best shots are very sporadic and unplanned and most people don't carry around their DSLR with them everywhere they go all day long like a woman carries a purse. I take way more photos on my phone than my camera because I always have it with me. So why not go for the best available, within your budget.
But yes, there is a whole younger generation that wouldn't even consider buying a digital camera anymore (except if they were going into the photography profession) as the camera's on their phones are more than adequate for snap shots they are just going to post on instagram, send via MMS, add it as a wallpaper or screensaver, or include in a Blog post and *maybe* print a 5x7 of.

The reason for their decision to do this might be to enable 8K video recording as the 8K functionality uses the 48mpx sensor.

malimukk said:
The reason for their decision to do this might be to enable 8K video recording as the 8K functionality uses the 48mpx sensor.
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That explains why the Ultra has a real zoom, as it can use the 108mpx sensor for 8K...
So we lost the zoom quality for portraits of our loved ones for a gimmick which almost nobody will use...
What a shame.

Latoc said:
That explains why the Ultra has a real zoom, as it can use the 108mpx sensor for 8K...
So we lost the zoom quality for portraits of our loved ones for a gimmick which almost nobody will use...
What a shame.
Click to expand...
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I liked samsung, when they included ir blaster, heart rate sensor and all kind of weird af stuff.
Hated it when they removed expandable storage from s6 and note 5 series but after note 7. I feel that they are less likely to take risks and try to compete with 2nd class brands like oppo and vivo which only focuses on camera for consumers. (No offense to vivo as they also spend a lot on research which include the first for indisplay fingerprint scanner and 2k screens, but they only showcase that tech on mobile world congress).
And at that time, phones used to be fun, the price was relatively affordable $600 as compared to $1200.
There are phases of popularity of features like there was phase when companies are competing on who can produce the slimmest phone. But now the phase is related to camera's, before this, it was the user experience, which made samsung to ditch the TouchWiz and come up with one ui. I was there on touchwiz for s7 edge and one ui with s8.
Also, i dont know how tech reviewers are able to get the awesome photos using auto mode.
Out of 30 pics only 3-4 are good photos.