Is it just me or does everyone else think the mods are being way more hurtful than helpful with the way they are monitoring the threads here. I haven't ever seen a group of mods close threads and clean threads so much or so randomly in my life.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Ah NO, they are not. They are doing their job and are clearing out the junk. Actually, I would like them to be more aggressive in their cleaning of the useless posts. For example the one that type I am pressing F5 till root hits. Really what does that have to do with obtaining root? Nothing and when the Mods delete those type of posts they do all of us a favor.
This is a forum. Expecting people to discuss things and not go off on tangents is like expecting a fat guy and an all you can eat buffet to only eat one french fry.
If you have to constantly close threads and clean them there are two problems:
1. You are not removing trouble posters that use personal attacks and act like asses
2. Your expectations for how much control you should expect on a forum is out of whack
I think both of those are the problems, not any actual discussion. This site is a far cry from what it used to be.
Moderators are trained on how to do their jobs. But what you don't know, is most of that is up to them to use their best judgement. Please try to remember, moderators do not see every single post being made. We rely strongly on the members to point us to trouble. From there, it's up to the individual moderator to handle things the best way they see fit.
I encourage everyone to report anything they feel is a violation of our rules or contact me directly. My PM inbox is always open for any concerns. This goes for just about any moderator or administrator of xda. We are here to help, not be forum police. You also don't always see all sides to the story. If it seems one thread is getting a lot of attention, then there's most likely a problem there.
Hope this helps,
The Merovingian
Senior Moderator
daizoninc said:
Is it just me or does everyone else think the mods are being way more hurtful than helpful with the way they are monitoring the threads here. I haven't ever seen a group of mods close threads and clean threads so much or so randomly in my life.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's overall quite balanced. They actually show some patience when some threads are getting out of topic, they could even more swiftly without it being shocking (There are really some threads getting completely messed up and they do a great job cleaning them up). I have seen much more arguable behaviors a few years go.
I just feel that a thread being cleaned should only be at the request of the OP period. And moderators need to use logic instead of their best judgement. Sometimes going off on a tangent is exactly what needs to happen for a developer to get an idea. All of a sudden someone is talking about Verizon FiOS and then fiber comes I to talks, from fiber the dev thinks of the food he eats, from there he remembers he had an idea at breakfast. I just feel that with the s8(+) forums specifically there are a few moderators who have gone full on post police for no reason. They have deleted nearly as much helpful information as hurtful.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
daizoninc said:
I just feel that a thread being cleaned should only be at the request of the OP period. And moderators need to use logic instead of their best judgement. Sometimes going off on a tangent is exactly what needs to happen for a developer to get an idea. All of a sudden someone is talking about Verizon FiOS and then fiber comes I to talks, from fiber the dev thinks of the food he eats, from there he remembers he had an idea at breakfast. I just feel that with the s8(+) forums specifically there are a few moderators who have gone full on post police for no reason. They have deleted nearly as much helpful information as hurtful.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lot of the time we do clean up at the request of the OP. You might be surprised about the cleaning we have done and who reported the issue. And we do use our logic. My logic might be different to your logic, and that is where our judgement comes in. We are using our judgement or common sense to try to keep the forums tidy and welcoming . But if someone other than the OP reports abuse or spamming(or any posts that are against XDA rules), we shouldn't clean those posts?
People going off on tangents is not something we generally worry too much about, but again, a lot of times the OP will report it and request we remove those posts. The other thing is, people read those threads to get whatever information they are seeking. Not everyone wants to read through pages of posts that have no relation to the subject of the thread. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who agree and disagree with that. But that is our problem, we will never keep everyone happy.
You're welcome to your opinion, but our goal as moderators is to tread the fine line between letting everyone have their say and enforcing the rules that we all agreed to when we joined.
noppy22 said:
A lot of the time we do clean up at the request of the OP. You might be surprised about the cleaning we have done and who reported the issue. And we do use our logic. My logic might be different to your logic, and that is where our judgement comes in. We are using our judgement or common sense to try to keep the forums tidy and welcoming . But if someone other than the OP reports abuse or spamming(or any posts that are against XDA rules), we shouldn't clean those posts?
People going off on tangents is not something we generally worry too much about, but again, a lot of times the OP will report it and request we remove those posts. The other thing is, people read those threads to get whatever information they are seeking. Not everyone wants to read through pages of posts that have no relation to the subject of the thread. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who agree and disagree with that. But that is our problem, we will never keep everyone happy.
You're welcome to your opinion, but our goal as moderators is to tread the fine line between letting everyone have their say and enforcing the rules that we all agreed to when we joined.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can respect that. Maybe there needs to be a double moderator system or something, where not just one moderator cleans it, but 2 or more working together. Would need more mods, but would likely result in more accurate cleaning?
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
I've been op of some big threads in the past and commend the work the mods do to clean up the threads over and over. It's not an easy job to keep up with.
I personally appreciate the effort moderators are putting here and the time they spend clearing out the junk. Every report I send is dealt with quickly.
It's not about them being "forum police"... but some sort of order has to be in place since threads get derailed, spammed and completely swamped with random discussions from time to time. A forum with no control is a mess.
TL : DR; To any mod reading this, thank you. You're doing great.
daizoninc said:
I can respect that. Maybe there needs to be a double moderator system or something, where not just one moderator cleans it, but 2 or more working together. Would need more mods, but would likely result in more accurate cleaning?
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, if we felt that was needed, that would be like us saying we don't trust our moderators to operate independently.
But we do. 100%. Every one of them. The current "cleaning" is more than accurate enough in our eyes.
I think noppy's response gave a good explanation of why things are done the way they are.
But if you think mods are being too heavy handed or excessive, then by all means, let us know (via private medium, not in the public forum). Provide some examples, and we will look into them. We take all feedback and complaints very seriously.
But from what you've been describing here, it seems this is more a matter of personal opinion than cold, hard over moderation.
It's difficult for those not on the moderation team to grasp just how many reports we deal with on a daily basis. (bearing in mind we have over 8 million members). Reports that get submitted by users like yourself, using the Report Post button. You'll actually find that most actions that a moderator takes on a thread are because of a report, not because of something they are doing off their own back.
daizoninc said:
I just feel that a thread being cleaned should only be at the request of the OP period. And moderators need to use logic instead of their best judgement. Sometimes going off on a tangent is exactly what needs to happen for a developer to get an idea. All of a sudden someone is talking about Verizon FiOS and then fiber comes I to talks, from fiber the dev thinks of the food he eats, from there he remembers he had an idea at breakfast. I just feel that with the s8(+) forums specifically there are a few moderators who have gone full on post police for no reason. They have deleted nearly as much helpful information as hurtful.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, you have a point on helping, and agree sometimes a blind squirrel sometimes finds the nut. However, if you look at 99.9999% of the posts they have zero to do with the subject at hand. Again, I use my example of the multiple "I am pressing F5 till root drops". Honestly, what does that have to do with the root discussion? Nothing, so deleting them is the best thing. Also to your point, how many times does thread have to have the announcement somebody found the way to root snapdragon Galaxy S8+ by using dirtycow (which does not work by the way, but did not stop 500 people from posting they found root)? And to come full circle, the mods do not delete useful content, it is just there are some many folks with zero skill thinking their input has value when it doesn't. To thank a person hit the thanks button or donate to them. Don't waste a post on thanking them. Again to my example, no I and the other 7 billion humans that live on planet Earth do not care that you are hitting the f5 button till root drops, so don't waste a post saying so, and to the fool that bumped that post, stop. In closing, the mods in my opinion don't clean the threads enough, just because the plethora of useless posts that occur in a very short amount of time. For them to keep up it would require them to have no life, no family, no job......
It's every day bro.... "Jake Paul Voice"
I almost never have issue with a mod. I have seen a lot of cleaning and closing on the S8/+ root threads, but I show up after the fact. So I can't say whether or not if they were being excessive. I think they are doing about as well as you could expect a human to.
daizoninc said:
Is it just me or does everyone else think the mods are being way more hurtful than helpful with the way they are monitoring the threads here. I haven't ever seen a group of mods close threads and clean threads so much or so randomly in my life.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No i think they should actually be far more agressive in some ways
There are WAY too many lazy, entitled no search/ no read idiots in here now than 5 years ago when i got here.
Back then you were expected to attempt to help your self first...exhaust all options then ask a question or ask for help.
This new generation of lazy users make it miserable for those of us that are not lazy, always read the OP and always search before asking stupid/repeat questions.
I know the mods have been told to be show more leniency then in previous years but i think that is not the way to go.
And god forbid you actually tell someone directly they are lazy or quote the rules to them...then you end up with an infraction. In real life i dont hold my tongue or tolerate lazy people .i shouldnt have to on a web forum... telling the truth (in a reasonably respectful way) is a good thing last time i checked.
Its sickening honestly.
I miss the old days...
That said the mods have an almost impossible task in front of them. I respect and appreciate every single one of them...even the one who gave me infractions lol.
sent from my Note FE, S8 plus, S7 edge or S6
Now that root is released, I feel like the mod team will have many more reports to deal with, tons more off topic posts and clutter, the stepped up response is called for in my insight. You've done an outstanding job, and I don't think I need to tell you that guys. Thank you.
Xda always been full of Snitches and nazi mods
vanemburghj said:
Ah NO, they are not. They are doing their job and are clearing out the junk. Actually, I would like them to be more aggressive in their cleaning of the useless posts. For example the one that type I am pressing F5 till root hits. Really what does that have to do with obtaining root? Nothing and when the Mods delete those type of posts they do all of us a favor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing their job is all they need to do and not whine about it and close threads. Their job is not to try to get ppl from making useless posts, they are not teachers or guides. Their job is to clean and moderate. Likely done better by sentient programs or trained gibbons. Open the progress threads and moderate Instead of holding the threat of closing threads over users heads like petulent bullies. They need to check their egos and just execute the functions of their job title. Now this may mean actually doing more work, spending more time doing moderator things....and that's the rub isn't it. They do not want to be bothered with moderating, they just want the ego boost they think the title entitles them to.
daizoninc said:
Is it just me or does everyone else think the mods are being way more hurtful than helpful with the way they are monitoring the threads here. I haven't ever seen a group of mods close threads and clean threads so much or so randomly in my life.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just wondering: what has this post to do with the Samsung Galaxy S8+?
Is there no other part of the forum to discuss this?
cc: @The Merovingian @noppy22 @the_scotsman
henklbr said:
Just wondering: was has this post to do with the Samsung Galaxy S8+?
Is there no other part of the forum to discuss this?
cc: @The Merovingian @noppy22 @the_scotsman
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The post you quoted asks about:
with the way they are monitoring the threads here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so I would say the OP is talking about "here" the s8+ forum....
Related
Age of Heroes is a whole thoroughly developed world, it’s a myriad of big and small stories, and it’s a place for feats, explorations and adventures for thousands of players. Age of Heroes has no limits in time or space – join us and you’ll see it for yourself!
Now players of can take part in beta-test of Age of Heroes Online client for Android OS.
irenOd said:
Age of Heroes is a whole thoroughly developed world, it’s a myriad of big and small stories, and it’s a place for feats, explorations and adventures for thousands of players. Age of Heroes has no limits in time or space – join us and you’ll see it for yourself!
Now players of can take part in beta-test of Age of Heroes Online client for Android OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
okay, i dont want to be the ass but someone has to say it.
in which way does this fit in the DEVELOPMENT section?!? there is general discussion, apps and games and whatever. why then in development? because its a beta??
hmpf..
please first think then open a new thread and hopefully then in the right section...
lolmensch said:
okay, i dont want to be the ass but someone has to say it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really should have let someone else say it. Now you are what you didn't want to be.
have a nice day
wcdisciple said:
You really should have let someone else say it. Now you are what you didn't want to be.
have a nice day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was moved by a moderator because it should have never been placed in Development. General or Apps would be most appropriate. Of course there are always better ways of pointing it out though and there really is no reason to be at each other for it. The post was moved and that's that.
Binary100100 said:
It was moved by a moderator because it should have never been placed in Development. General or Apps would be most appropriate. Of course there are always better ways of pointing it out though and there really is no reason to be at each other for it. The post was moved and that's that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being that you decided to quote me....
My thing is this, i don't care what section the topic is in. I don't care if it's moved or not. I don't care who moves it or who leaves it where it is. I could care less.
Personally, i surf the forums to see if i can obtain any info that is useful and if i can assisst anyone that may need help etc. That's it point blank period.
And in my opinion it's unneccessary for those that aren't mods to constantly go through endless posts pointing out what belongs where. People don't get on here to be told by faceless keyboard killers what to do.
Also to clarify something, I wasn't getting at him/her. I would've taken things in a totally different direction.
Quick question...why can't the mods just simply tell all those that are looking for moderator jobs, by way of being bossy and trying to clown others on here, that they know what their jobs are and leave it to them to do their job? That would eliminate some animosity. But that's just a thought.
I don't need to hear back from you either. Just voicing my opinion and thoughts just as you did.
wcdisciple said:
Being that you decided to quote me....
My thing is this, i don't care what section the topic is in. I don't care if it's moved or not. I don't care who moves it or who leaves it where it is. I could care less.
Personally, i surf the forums to see if i can obtain any info that is useful and if i can assisst anyone that may need help etc. That's it point blank period.
And in my opinion it's unneccessary for those that aren't mods to constantly go through endless posts pointing out what belongs where. People don't get on here to be told by faceless keyboard killers what to do.
Also to clarify something, I wasn't getting at him/her. I would've taken things in a totally different direction.
Quick question...why can't the mods just simply tell all those that are looking for moderator jobs, by way of being bossy and trying to clown others on here, that they know what their jobs are and leave it to them to do their job? That would eliminate some animosity. But that's just a thought.
I don't need to hear back from you either. Just voicing my opinion and thoughts just as you did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My apologizes. I didn't intend on singling anyone out. You were just the last comment. And I personally think that it's fine for members to point out that a post is in the wrong section as long as it is done politely. Unfortunately this isn't always the case. Especially amongst the Senior Members because they have seen it repeatedly for months or even years. And no matter how many times they point out that a post is in the wrong thread there will always be more. So it becomes frustrating to them. I can say this because I can relate because I have been guilty of it myself in the past. It all comes down to the basic rule of being respectful toward others.
And to answer your question regarding the wannabe mods. All mods started off as regular members. The more serious of a member you are the more likely it is that you would be an ideal candidate for being a moderator. I just received my duties and in fact I have to admit, it's been tough. It's not as easy as you think reading threads that you have no interest in, cleaning, merging, deleting, censoring, etc. And with a new structure being laid out effective very recently moderators such as myself are being assigned for specific forums so that the members will have a few common moderators to turn to instead of a different and random moderator each time. This should make everyone's job easier and hopefully calm things down a bit. But none of that is an excuse for wannabe moderators that want to treat other members with disrespect. If they really want to be moderators then that will come back and bite them later since they are breaking one of the basic rules themselves.
Bottom line, if anyone has a problem with a post being in the wrong thread then they can kindly remind the OP that it is in an inappropriate thread and identify the appropriate one for them along with educating them with the reason why. The post should also be reported so that it can be moved before the thread gets out of hand with flammers and rude comments. We also don't need five people reminding the OP that the they posted it in the wrong thread either. Once the thread is posted the OP cannot do anything about it besides request it to be moved. Reminding the OP several times isn't going to change anything except for making the thread more hostile and nobody wants that.
Binary100100 said:
My apologizes.
All mods started off as regular members.
But none of that is an excuse for wannabe moderators that want to treat other members with disrespect.
Bottom line, if anyone has a problem with a post being in the wrong thread then they can kindly remind the OP that it is in an inappropriate thread and identify the appropriate one for them along with educating them with the reason why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, no need to apologize. I didn't and don't feel disrespected in the least. I don't take anything on the internet pesonal. Itz not my style. If a person isn't in throat strangling distance I don't take **** personal. And that's not a jab at you. Itz just the way it is.
I didn't want to quote your whole post, but suffice it to say, you made your point. And not that you're looking for or need my "seal of approval" but, you're alright in my book. Peace.
Honestly I am starting to get sick at the attitude of some of the members of this forum. It takes more time to ***** than to just simply skip the post and go to the next one.
As the forum gets bigger (XDA today is huge!) you will have simply no way of avoiding these kinds of posts. Telling them to go search or being rude to anyone is NOT going to help.
This used to be strictly a developer forum but with all the press it's getting, the site has been growing a lot over the past few years, and by being an ass you're insulting the very people that are helping this site grow, and even those saying HUGE THANKS by donating money to you for your hard work. How rude is that?
C'mon, let's be more upbeat, forgiving and helpful towards our fellow members and let the actual moderators do their jobs.
/rant
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
Kshawn said:
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
EtherealRemnant said:
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^
This.
We are a development forum, this isn't the place to get hand held and walked through the same idiots guide 30 times with pictures and line by line instructions. I have no problems helping people that want to help themselves. Seeing, "Why can't i flash this" when they aren't even rooted, have nand locked and never bothered to even check the stickies angers me to no end.
We were all noobs once and we learned really quickly to search, read and then read some more. When you think you know what you have to do then you should read some more. Then try.
Many here flash development kernels and then we end up with 15 pages of 55 fps OMG. Camera is broke! Can we fix it? OMG I have an epson with screen tearing I'm going to return this pos! Nova panel no fix? Dude I'm returning it for an epson!
Don't even get me started on the cross device posts and people threatening to return their device. Return the damn thing. I don't need you to justify my decisions. I also don't equate my penis size with my phone so; grats the Iphone records 720p awesome if that is what you need then by all means help yourself. No need to post. No need to post "I love my EVO" Threads in some lame attempt to counter act the negativity of another device doing something better than yours. Take that stuff to one of the other laid back forums where people aren't actively trying to fix problems.
Grims said:
I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why should I waste my time digging the link up for them? Then they are just going to expect it EVERY time and we will keep getting the same posts from the same people who are too lazy to take the time and search and read.
Tough call, I am relatively new here but I help a lot at other forums and this stuff happens everywhere. Some days I bite my lip and some days I am a smart ass.
I definately agree that if you decide to reply you should say something useful so to not populate everyone elses search results with useless info. Of course the bad part about ignoring a noob's post is that they will then keep bumping it themselves until someone tells them to go search....so you can't win!
The other day when I posted at another forum that progress was being made on nova panels and the 30fps cap I flat out told them I wasn't going to post the link because the developers needed the thread to work. I of course credited xda just didn't give them the thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
EtherealRemnant said:
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, by telling them to just search and not answer their question, we will ultimately HURT those who are actually UTFSE....Google. By responding to them you are BUMPING the thread. Either let it die, let a moderator take care of it or simply tell them to search, but point them to right direction kindly and with respect.
It's pretty apparent that UTFSE is a common issue and maybe you can modify behavior through the forum itself? I don't see why the forum can't search out the keywords being used, sentences and such and force the user to "review" previous postings prior to making a new one? It could even go as far as to have them review and check off certain starred postings "before" making a new one. I have been blasted on other forums for not searching and thus I learned my lesson very quickly. Since it is such a common issue on many different boards, I would think someone could come up with a solution.
My .02-
I don't know how much I agree with the OP. I have been using these forums for maybe a year or two at this point and for the most part the balance seems to be 80% helpful 20% trolls. I figure that everywhere, in any forum there are always going to be trolls but on the whole XDA has ALWAYS been helpful. Maybe I'm just lucky and havent had to deal with too many trolls but either way, while I agree with the OP, not sure how large scale of a problem this really is.
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
People tend to take the path of least resistance, so if they have two choices: search or ask, they'll take the option that requires the least effort--they'll ask. So even though they get *****ed at about searching, they'll still just ask because they're likely to get an answer in a few minutes without having to do any work.
I believe the answer, and what would help this community the most, is to consolidate the most requested information in a SINGLE SIMPLE place. I've checked out the wikis, but to be honest, things move so fast here, even the wikis get out of date quickly.
Consider some of the most asked newb questions:
"How do I flash this"
"I can't get adb to work"
"When will it be out"
"My battery sucks, what do I do"
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
For example, I've seen advice such as: "To save your battery, remove the people widget." I get four hours of battery @ 100% with the people widget, so am I lucky? Is that bad advice? At best, it appears anecdotal. What we owe the community, and the newb offenders that generated this topic is fact based, concise advise that is easy to read, easy to obtain, and easy to download.
I also think XDA should start adding moderators commensurate with its growth. Moderators should DELETE DELETE DELETE posts that burn time and energy when this information is readily available. XDA is nothing but a big ass database of information, and like any other database: Garbage in, Garbage out. We need to keep the forums clean with relevant information.
I agree with the OPs original aims: We should be gracious to newcomers and help people out. I'm sick and tired of reading snarky "go search you dumbass" posts, but I also agree, it does get REAL OLD seeing the same old "I flashed this and now I'm bootlooping, OMG, someone help me now"
One last point and I'll shut-up: The devs spend WAY TOO MUCH time doing bull**** troubleshooting. If we all stepped up and took care of the basic PD for their work, they'd be free to keep doing what we really want them doing and that's improving their ROMS, Apps, Themes etc. So while we work on figuring out how to manage information, you can best help out by answering every question you can so your friendly dev can keep coding.
Apologize for the rant...
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta agree 100%.
Give a man a fish (or thread link) and you feed him for a day... Teach him to fish (or search) and you feed him for a lifetime.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally! I couldn't agree more.
I will have to say that I think XDA desperately needs a wiki-post forum feature like the ones on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.
Would save a ton of time on these massive threads with posts that might have outdated info.
jmxp69 said:
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't disagree with this more. XDA is not an end user support forum, it is a forum for exploring new development techniques and ways to hack devices. The main purpose of XDA, in my opinion, is NOT to provide sweet consice fully working solutions. The purpose is to share information that leads up to finding complete solutions.
If new users want to find easy answers then they should use another forum, such as AndroidForums, which do a pretty good job of only linking back to XDA if it is a complete solution. If users want to use XDA then they need to deal with SEARCHING through the developmental process.
While the constant occurrence of people refusing to search on their own is annoying, I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
06ms6 said:
I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
ramiss said:
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Comparing is good. Some people have used the same phone for a year or two and are just now experiencing a new handset or even a new operating system.
It is when the whole one-sided "fanboy" bickering happens...that the thread goes to sh-t
Hi,
Here are some ideas and thoughts on how I would try improving the overall tone in the forum through moderation and rules. This thread is by no means intended as any demands or criticism, it's just what I think could help. It's also not written with anyone specific in mind.
First off I would like to see posters refrain from personal attacks, this goes both for intentional trolls as well as those reacting to trolling. If the "no personal attacks" rule was enforced more we would get rid off a lot of the hostility in here.
Asking questions
Just saying "RTFF", "Use search, you noob" and so on is pretty counter-productive. Which search terms to use aren't always obvious so a lot of the times it's better to go for an approach like prefacing the answer with: "That question has been asked and answered many times before, try searching first and checking FAQs". The point comes across, the poster gets his answer and hopefully a potentially valuable member isn't scared off. Everyone's a noob at some point.
Personally I encourage asking questions but some people might find that annoying so I propose two things:
1. Either labeling the thread accordingly, like "No questions" or stating that in the original post.
2. Leave the job of moderating questions to the OP. If you don't want to answer then don't say anything, slamming the question doesn't help anything.
General conduct
There are forum rules for this already so I won't go into detail too much. I just wish that people would skip the insults and personal attacks. If you want to criticize something then criticize the subject not the person. Calling someone an idiot and flaming them doesn't do any good. That goes for the spelling and grammar police too.
Thoughts on moderation
My suggestion would probably increase the moderators workload but I feel it might be necessary. Posting a quick motivation when locking a thread is great, keep at it. Let the OP of the thread dictate the tone in it and only go after rule violations unless the complaints come from the OP himself. If the OP still interacts in a thread even after it's veered way off-topic you could ask him to edit the topic to reflect this. Threads can be seen as conversations and those are seldom static so going OT is almost inevitable.
Just a few thoughts, feel free to comment on them.
You're an idiot loser who likes to lick iPhones.
(AKA: I agree with your ideas and wish to suscribe to your newsletter.)
Its not the tone only in X10 forum, you can find the same thing else where. But thanks for putting together this nice notes and helpful instruction to behave right. Before anyone sign up for a new account they should pass a test by doing that they are forced to read all these notes. Its the nature of human that thinks he or she is right all the time and knows better that everyone else, just like me.
Well, I hope people get the point and stop bashing each other over some none sense problems.
Nimche said:
Its not the tone only in X10 forum, you can find the same thing else where. But thanks for putting together this nice notes and helpful instruction to behave right. Before anyone sign up for a new account they should pass a test by doing that they are forced to read all these notes. Its the nature of human that thinks he or she is right all the time and knows better that everyone else, just like me.
Well, I hope people get the point and stop bashing each other over some none sense problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I singled out this board simply because I have no experience from the other parts. You could even make a case that the issues mentioned are universal in all forums with lots of users. I've seen the things I talk about happen other places too and how well similar guidelines have worked so it might be worth a shot.
ddewbofh said:
I singled out this board simply because I have no experience from the other parts. You could even make a case that the issues mentioned are universal in all forums with lots of users. I've seen the things I talk about happen other places too and how well similar guidelines have worked so it might be worth a shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong. What I was trying to say was that reminders are awesome and I do really appreciate your time putting your thoughts on here for us and I will be the first one to follow. I do respect XDA.
Yeah, I got your point. I just wanted to elaborate on why i talked about the X10 forum in my post and not forums in general.
Like many, I was more than saddened with what happenned on XDA/X10 forii regarding some development threads yesterday.
Without wanting to start yet another flame war, some suggestions to help to try to prevent this and other nastiness from repeating itself in the future:
TO ALL USERS
- XDA is a space meant for collaboration and sharing information. Use it for that
- XDA is not a chat room. Posts just to thank or put down another user do nothing to help its purpose (There is a reason for the "Thanks" button).
...Nor do posts whose only content is "Use the search tool" or "posted previously in this thread" (w/o further information) or similar - while some people may in fact be lazy enough to not to search/look in some cases it's kind of hard to look through 300+ pages of posts to find 1 link or piece of information. Or to sort through hundreds of hits to a search. If you know the answer to a question, please share it. If not, welll....don't say anything.
- USE THE SEARCH TOOL and HAVE A LOOK AT A FEW PAGES of the thread of interest before posting the question .Likely you will find your answer and it helps PREVENTING threads from reaching the aforementioned 300+ pages, of which maybe like 30 pages actually contain INFORMATION.
- REMEMBER that what you are getting, you are getting for free. That applies both to stuff developed and put up on XDA, be it ROMS, tweaks, patches, whatever and to the wonderful people behind XDA - moderators, etc... whose work is often forgotten. If we as users can't be expected to read through all posts in a forum, why should we expect mods to have to act as if they had the time to do this?
- Having said that, if you like a development/tip/tweak, whatever, use the thanks button and leave it at that. If you don't like something, leave it at that. Posts to the effect of "You are God" or "You sleep with the devil" do nothing but mess with egos. And this forum is about messing with mobile computing platforms, not egos.
TO MODERATORS
- Please refrain from deleting threads. If they get out of hand (and they sometimes do) I humbly suggest that you (a) close them and/or (b) ban any offending users, albeit if only temporarily (aka "suspension").
For all the crap that may have gotten into a thread, most if not all threads contain a lot of useful information that may/will get lost if the thread is deleted. so the non-guilty parties get shafted as badly as the guilty. And I prefer to think that the majority of users are actually interested in moving things forward.
- Just an idea - but rather than having a simple requirement to have an account to post, would it be possible for you guys to set up a system whereby certain forums could only be posted to by users of a certain seniority - and preferably with a distinction to starting new threads or replying to existing threads.
Following on to this, I believe that the seniority requirements can be improved in a relatively easy way - maturity comes from experience, which is not necessarily related to # of posts (any fool can type 30 irrelevant posts in a day). What would you say to a system where, in addition to a minimum # of posts, a user needs to have been a member/at his previous seniority level for a certain amount of time? That should not be too difficult to implement and would help people get into the feel of things before blabbing off. Short tempers usually can't hold off a couple of weeks/months...
- THANKS for this great place!!!! Your efforts are too often forgotten.
TO DEVELOPERS
- Thanks for your time, effort, patience and hard work. We really appreciate it!
- Please consider that the strongest point of Android (hey, I'm posting this to the X10 forum, which is Android, no beef against WM or any other platforms) is that it is OPEN, meaning we can ALL work on it, improve it, tweak it, etc...
- That means that users can by default consider whatever is posted as being OPEN and can do likewise. If you feel that whatever you have developed/done is NOT open, then say so. And if you want a stronger protection for your work, or users aren't respecting your work, then publish it under some kind of license so everyone else knows what to expect and you have legal grounds - GPL, LGPL, ASL, Berkeley, etc... there are a number of them to choose from.
- Collaboration means being open to new ideas, praise and constructive criticism. Attitudes like "THIS **** IS MINE AND NOONE TOUCHES IT" (pardon the profanity) isn't really very constructive in an open source environment. You are not god. Help and inspiration may come from even the least probable places.
Well, that was long-winded. If I have offended anyone (I hope not) pardonnez-moi
"
...Nor do posts whose only content is "Use the search tool" or "posted previously in this thread" (w/o further information) or similar - while some people may in fact be lazy enough to not to search/look in some cases it's kind of hard to look through 300+ pages of posts to find 1 link or piece of information. Or to sort through hundreds of hits to a search. If you know the answer to a question, please share it. If not, welll....don't say anything."
actually. members are supposed to read the thread and look for answers. thus eliminating redundant and repeat posts
All in all though ideas that are already in place
If people respect the rules then good things happen
And as for not deleting threads
if the dev leaves then there no point leaving it open. otherwise we jsut clean them
as someone who runs a forum and moderates, deleting people's posts for no reason, is pretty poor. Mine was deleted for no reason and no explanation. The situation in the end was to the poorer for XDA. As a DEV left, and could be followed up by more. Instead of a calm hand, all members got was a heavey handed approach, threatening bans. Sorry that is a crap way. and in end has lost XDA many members. how sad
-PiLoT- said:
actually. members are supposed to read the thread and look for answers. thus eliminating redundant and repeat posts
All in all though ideas that are already in place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure thing - but adding an additional post to JUST say "look in the thread" only makes it longer. No need since the rule is already in place, right?
-PiLoT- said:
And as for not deleting threads
if the dev leaves then there no point leaving it open. otherwise we jsut clean them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely - CLOSE them - they will take up some disk space and trickle down through the thread (being closed).
Cleaning some threads would take you guys ages (500+ pages in some cases).
Deleting them however loses information, whether the dev has left or not (he may always come back as has happened...) and only fans flames for conspiracy theories and other idiocies...I do concede that leaving them there may also spur more garbage initially, but that will stop as the (closed) thread ages.
acmbc said:
Sure thing - but adding an additional post to JUST say "look in the thread" only makes it longer. No need since the rule is already in place, right?
yes but sometime sits the steps that people need to take since people will not read the rules
Precisely - CLOSE them - they will take up some disk space and trickle down through the thread (being closed).
Cleaning some threads would take you guys ages (500+ pages in some cases).
Deleting them however loses information, whether the dev has left or not (he may always come back as has happened...) and only fans flames for conspiracy theories and other idiocies...I do concede that leaving them there may also spur more garbage initially, but that will stop as the (closed) thread ages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the last lot of threads were closed not deleted
Crocodile1973 said:
as someone who runs a forum and moderates, deleting people's posts for no reason, is pretty poor. Mine was deleted for no reason and no explanation. The situation in the end was to the poorer for XDA. As a DEV left, and could be followed up by more. Instead of a calm hand, all members got was a heavey handed approach, threatening bans. Sorry that is a crap way. and in end has lost XDA many members. how sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
some posts are deleted during a routine thread cleanup
Im not saying your suggestions have no merit.
im saying that some of them are already looked into and some wont work as weve tried them in the past
-PiLoT- said:
Im not saying your suggestions have no merit.
im saying that some of them are already looked into and some wont work as weve tried them in the past
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kudos to that. If it's been tried and not worked, my bad.
acmbc said:
Like many, I was more than saddened with what happenned on XDA/X10 forii regarding some development threads yesterday.
Without wanting to start yet another flame war, some suggestions to help to try to prevent this and other nastiness from repeating itself in the future:
TO ALL USERS
TO MODERATORS
TO DEVELOPERS
- Thanks for your time, effort, patience and hard work. We really appreciate it!
- Please consider that the strongest point of Android (hey, I'm posting this to the X10 forum, which is Android, no beef against WM or any other platforms) is that it is OPEN, meaning we can ALL work on it, improve it, tweak it, etc...
- That means that users can by default consider whatever is posted as being OPEN and can do likewise. If you feel that whatever you have developed/done is NOT open, then say so. And if you want a stronger protection for your work, or users aren't respecting your work, then publish it under some kind of license so everyone else knows what to expect and you have legal grounds - GPL, LGPL, ASL, Berkeley, etc... there are a number of them to choose from.
- Collaboration means being open to new ideas, praise and constructive criticism. Attitudes like "THIS **** IS MINE AND NOONE TOUCHES IT" (pardon the profanity) isn't really very constructive in an open source environment. You are not god. Help and inspiration may come from even the least probable places.
Well, that was long-winded. If I have offended anyone (I hope not) pardonnez-moi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, my 2 cents
i agree on the "users" part
on the "to moderators" part, i disagree
mods don't need to "refrain" from deleting threads, that's what mods do. they do it for specific reasons, not just because they are self-proclaimed e-gods with a ban hammer. if threads need closed or deleted, that's what mods are here for. also, this site is not a democracy. a lot of members don't seem to understand that petitions and moral support for offending members who were banned or threads closed/deleted, will not exactly unban/reopen. granted, i'm sure if there was a collaborated majority between the mods, it will. but users making 30+ separate threads on the same subject (or lately the same dev) only makes things worse. all of these trip apostles are doing more harm than good. i know all these recent trip threads annoy the crap out of me, i can only imagine the work and annoyance it brings moderators.
as far as the dev section of your post goes
you can't take info/sources from some, then accuse EVERY dev for using yours, making comments like "i'm going to download this and check the files for my sources". seriously, it's unprofessional and immature.
as far as the trip situation goes
i have no idea what happened last night, but, where as he may be a great dev, being a dev is NOT for him. he cannot take criticism, he wants to share nothing with other devs, he was not working collabratively with anyone to benefit the community, and honestly, he seems the have the attitude of a 14 y/o girl. how many times does one person need to "threaten with leaving", then never doing so. then upon realizing that not enough begs to stay filled his ego, actually leave only to make a sudden reappearance because, there's really no other dev site out there to the extent of xda.
this isn't the first time he's been gone, although i this time was not his choice, i'm sure he will be back again.
oh, one other thing, you go to any other sub-forum on xda, and there is no drama like there is on the x10 sections. seriously, did SE market these things specifically to 14 y/o drama queens?
svtfmook said:
well, my 2 cents
i agree on the "users" part
on the "to moderators" part, i disagree
mods don't need to "refrain" from deleting threads, that's what mods do. they do it for specific reasons, not just because they are self-proclaimed e-gods with a ban hammer. if threads need closed or deleted, that's what mods are here for. also, this site is not a democracy. a lot of members don't seem to understand that petitions and moral support for offending members who were banned or threads closed/deleted, will not exactly unban/reopen. granted, i'm sure if there was a collaborated majority between the mods, it will. but users making 30+ separate threads on the same subject (or lately the same dev) only makes things worse. all of these trip apostles are doing more harm than good. i know all these recent trip threads annoy the crap out of me, i can only imagine the work and annoyance it brings moderators.
as far as the dev section of your post goes
you can't take info/sources from some, then accuse EVERY dev for using yours, making comments like "i'm going to download this and check the files for my sources". seriously, it's unprofessional and immature.
as far as the trip situation goes
i have no idea what happened last night, but, where as he may be a great dev, being a dev is NOT for him. he cannot take criticism, he wants to share nothing with other devs, he was not working collabratively with anyone to benefit the community, and honestly, he seems the have the attitude of a 14 y/o girl. how many times does one person need to "threaten with leaving", then never doing so. then upon realizing that not enough begs to stay filled his ego, actually leave only to make a sudden reappearance because, there's really no other dev site out there to the extent of xda.
this isn't the first time he's been gone, although i this time was not his choice, i'm sure he will be back again.
oh, one other thing, you go to any other sub-forum on xda, and there is no drama like there is on the x10 sections. seriously, did SE market these things specifically to 14 y/o drama queens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Trip's work, heck, I even use it on my phone these past months.
There's a post I made in "News about current circumstances" thread that explains my point extensively.
Also, I know it in my gut that he will be back for sure.
You know why?
He feeds on publicity and Modaco forums are too low-populated for his huge ego.
I hope though, that upon his return he will be much more sophisticated and reasonable,
for the sake of every one here.
One can always dream...
PS: I was a 14 year old girl 10 years ago and, man, I'm telling you, I was a major drama queen.
I want to believe I've grown out of it though.
I really think the ideas from the original post would be used in some way at least. Good post OP. Hope xda considers this. There are some great ideas here.
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App
Alot of good information can be found in this forum - if you dig deep enough and have huge amount of time to spend on it. Because most of the posts are just crap. People saying "Yes, dito that. Will install tomorrow" or, nonsense as "thanks, appreciate that".
For Christ sake. Posts with private messages should not be public. That's why we have a private message function in most forums. Who's in charge in this forum? Keep all private information as private messages, and keep it OFF the forum. People who needs some important info on something involving mobile devices have to browse for hours before finding it - and it's mostly due to all nonsense crap within.
Normally, moderators do their job and clean up the forums from crap, but not here however. I don't know why though. Maybe there are no moderators in here
Believe me, no one really cares if some special person "will install it later" or whatever. IF the masses would care - a poll would is posted. In that case, all opinions are wanted and collected in a thread. That's OK since answers are wanted then. But if someone just wants to say "thanks" - please keep it as a private message, please please, so that all the poor readers don't have to browse through all the sh*t when looking to find some important info.
If there are moderators here - why aren't they doing their job?
If there ain't no moderators - please get some. I think this forum needs 10 or more, but then it could increase in quality tenfold or more.
Clean this up for Christ sake. Delete the nonsense. Increase quality. Make it worthy a visit, or even better, a search.
TBH, the search page is kinda useless as it's missing information on how to properly search the forums. in standard way, if you enter more than one word as search query, it will list all the forum entries where at least one word was found - utterly useless in most cases... making the search page easier for new users would probably help alot to get rid of double posts.
I think you partly make a valid point, but you just sound bitter and your poll is VERY biased. Why could it not just say "Yes" and "No"?
For that reason, I'm out of here and not taking part.
You know, I wanted to say the same thing for a long time. I'm also sad how low moderation we have here on SGS2 forums, it really makes me not want to take part of discussion. Like for example the arguing about forum manners in 2.3.4 leak root being available topic, it really should not be tolerated
I guess the main reason is simply lack of moderator staff - but I feel that sometimes none of the moderators even takes a look in general section for a whole day.
I'm not sure about their area of responsibility, but there are mods in our dev section...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
The moderators on xda are not paid, so I for one don't expect them to sit at a computer all day and read every single post in every thread in every forum. There's a button on every single post for reporting inappropriate behaviour, so we, as the community, have a responsibility to let them know when something's wrong.
I've reported all sorts of things including spam, rascism, foul language, warez links and just general rude behaviour. Every single time I've done that, without fail, it has been dealt with in the best way possible.
I think you underestimate how much goes on in these forums, and the SGS2 forum is quiet compared to some of the others!
I think the mods deserve our thanks, not our disdain. If you want a better community then you do something about it.
I think this forum is normal. It has all the typical groups of posters. Undoubtedly, the newest most awesomest smartphone is gonna attract a ton of people and it will be almost impossible to stop all their threads and posts. I think the other members do a good job modertating the serious transgressions.
I would have liked to come here and instantly found the answers to all my questions, but I realize this is a complicated subject matter and the answers I seek might not even exist. There aren't definitive answers to a lot of questions. A lot is unknown or opinion based. And if there is an answer, there are usually multiple answers.
Personally, I don't mind the dynamic that leads to multiple threads on the same subject within the same hour. You can't stop the noob onslaught. Come back after it's not cool to be here and you'll find a completely different forum.
By the way, what were you searching for?
You can apply to be a moderator if you wish to .. Nice to start your first post of with a Bang
The way I see with the amount of posting that goes in XDA with thousands of members and hundreds of post it really will be hard to moderate, especially as SGS2 is the hottest selling phone right now and lot of activity going around it.
The search function is good but still sometimes its hard to find specific answers and then its much more easier just to create a post.
Unless of course If there is a wiki or something with all things related to the SGS2
johncmolyneux said:
the SGS2 forum is quiet compared to some of the others!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tfn said:
You can apply to be a moderator if you wish to .. Nice to start your first post of with a Bang
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously? With 1 post and 0 thanks that means you've contributed nothing. And you first post is a ***** that its too hard for you to find things. A bit selfish, no? Forums aren't designed to be your personal wiki. Something tells me you're not going to make a lot of friends here.