Related
Honestly I am starting to get sick at the attitude of some of the members of this forum. It takes more time to ***** than to just simply skip the post and go to the next one.
As the forum gets bigger (XDA today is huge!) you will have simply no way of avoiding these kinds of posts. Telling them to go search or being rude to anyone is NOT going to help.
This used to be strictly a developer forum but with all the press it's getting, the site has been growing a lot over the past few years, and by being an ass you're insulting the very people that are helping this site grow, and even those saying HUGE THANKS by donating money to you for your hard work. How rude is that?
C'mon, let's be more upbeat, forgiving and helpful towards our fellow members and let the actual moderators do their jobs.
/rant
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
Kshawn said:
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
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I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
EtherealRemnant said:
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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^^^^^
This.
We are a development forum, this isn't the place to get hand held and walked through the same idiots guide 30 times with pictures and line by line instructions. I have no problems helping people that want to help themselves. Seeing, "Why can't i flash this" when they aren't even rooted, have nand locked and never bothered to even check the stickies angers me to no end.
We were all noobs once and we learned really quickly to search, read and then read some more. When you think you know what you have to do then you should read some more. Then try.
Many here flash development kernels and then we end up with 15 pages of 55 fps OMG. Camera is broke! Can we fix it? OMG I have an epson with screen tearing I'm going to return this pos! Nova panel no fix? Dude I'm returning it for an epson!
Don't even get me started on the cross device posts and people threatening to return their device. Return the damn thing. I don't need you to justify my decisions. I also don't equate my penis size with my phone so; grats the Iphone records 720p awesome if that is what you need then by all means help yourself. No need to post. No need to post "I love my EVO" Threads in some lame attempt to counter act the negativity of another device doing something better than yours. Take that stuff to one of the other laid back forums where people aren't actively trying to fix problems.
Grims said:
I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
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Why should I waste my time digging the link up for them? Then they are just going to expect it EVERY time and we will keep getting the same posts from the same people who are too lazy to take the time and search and read.
Tough call, I am relatively new here but I help a lot at other forums and this stuff happens everywhere. Some days I bite my lip and some days I am a smart ass.
I definately agree that if you decide to reply you should say something useful so to not populate everyone elses search results with useless info. Of course the bad part about ignoring a noob's post is that they will then keep bumping it themselves until someone tells them to go search....so you can't win!
The other day when I posted at another forum that progress was being made on nova panels and the 30fps cap I flat out told them I wasn't going to post the link because the developers needed the thread to work. I of course credited xda just didn't give them the thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
EtherealRemnant said:
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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Actually, by telling them to just search and not answer their question, we will ultimately HURT those who are actually UTFSE....Google. By responding to them you are BUMPING the thread. Either let it die, let a moderator take care of it or simply tell them to search, but point them to right direction kindly and with respect.
It's pretty apparent that UTFSE is a common issue and maybe you can modify behavior through the forum itself? I don't see why the forum can't search out the keywords being used, sentences and such and force the user to "review" previous postings prior to making a new one? It could even go as far as to have them review and check off certain starred postings "before" making a new one. I have been blasted on other forums for not searching and thus I learned my lesson very quickly. Since it is such a common issue on many different boards, I would think someone could come up with a solution.
My .02-
I don't know how much I agree with the OP. I have been using these forums for maybe a year or two at this point and for the most part the balance seems to be 80% helpful 20% trolls. I figure that everywhere, in any forum there are always going to be trolls but on the whole XDA has ALWAYS been helpful. Maybe I'm just lucky and havent had to deal with too many trolls but either way, while I agree with the OP, not sure how large scale of a problem this really is.
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
People tend to take the path of least resistance, so if they have two choices: search or ask, they'll take the option that requires the least effort--they'll ask. So even though they get *****ed at about searching, they'll still just ask because they're likely to get an answer in a few minutes without having to do any work.
I believe the answer, and what would help this community the most, is to consolidate the most requested information in a SINGLE SIMPLE place. I've checked out the wikis, but to be honest, things move so fast here, even the wikis get out of date quickly.
Consider some of the most asked newb questions:
"How do I flash this"
"I can't get adb to work"
"When will it be out"
"My battery sucks, what do I do"
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
For example, I've seen advice such as: "To save your battery, remove the people widget." I get four hours of battery @ 100% with the people widget, so am I lucky? Is that bad advice? At best, it appears anecdotal. What we owe the community, and the newb offenders that generated this topic is fact based, concise advise that is easy to read, easy to obtain, and easy to download.
I also think XDA should start adding moderators commensurate with its growth. Moderators should DELETE DELETE DELETE posts that burn time and energy when this information is readily available. XDA is nothing but a big ass database of information, and like any other database: Garbage in, Garbage out. We need to keep the forums clean with relevant information.
I agree with the OPs original aims: We should be gracious to newcomers and help people out. I'm sick and tired of reading snarky "go search you dumbass" posts, but I also agree, it does get REAL OLD seeing the same old "I flashed this and now I'm bootlooping, OMG, someone help me now"
One last point and I'll shut-up: The devs spend WAY TOO MUCH time doing bull**** troubleshooting. If we all stepped up and took care of the basic PD for their work, they'd be free to keep doing what we really want them doing and that's improving their ROMS, Apps, Themes etc. So while we work on figuring out how to manage information, you can best help out by answering every question you can so your friendly dev can keep coding.
Apologize for the rant...
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Gotta agree 100%.
Give a man a fish (or thread link) and you feed him for a day... Teach him to fish (or search) and you feed him for a lifetime.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Finally! I couldn't agree more.
I will have to say that I think XDA desperately needs a wiki-post forum feature like the ones on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.
Would save a ton of time on these massive threads with posts that might have outdated info.
jmxp69 said:
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
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I couldn't disagree with this more. XDA is not an end user support forum, it is a forum for exploring new development techniques and ways to hack devices. The main purpose of XDA, in my opinion, is NOT to provide sweet consice fully working solutions. The purpose is to share information that leads up to finding complete solutions.
If new users want to find easy answers then they should use another forum, such as AndroidForums, which do a pretty good job of only linking back to XDA if it is a complete solution. If users want to use XDA then they need to deal with SEARCHING through the developmental process.
While the constant occurrence of people refusing to search on their own is annoying, I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
06ms6 said:
I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
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Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
ramiss said:
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
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Comparing is good. Some people have used the same phone for a year or two and are just now experiencing a new handset or even a new operating system.
It is when the whole one-sided "fanboy" bickering happens...that the thread goes to sh-t
I know I am gonna sound like a jerk, but I am a jerk most of the time, so what ..
I suggest that we refuse to answer Questions that are posted in the wrong Forum ...
The Stickies clearly state what to post where ...
If you have a question about an app, and it is not an app that has its own thread in "Themes and Apps" it Goes in "Q&A"
If you have a question about how to flash a ROM, it does not go in the ROM thread, that thread is for ROM developers to post their ROMs
If you have a question about a specific ROM it does NOT go in the Q&A it goes in the ROM thread or wherever that Chef wants you to post it ....
If you want to know how to install a Theme or a Mod, it goes in the Q&A , questions about a specific Theme or App it goes in the thread for them.
Now I know that the people that this actually pertains to will not even read this this post, so I leave it up to those that waste their time wading through senseless threads that are in the wrong place and constantly having to tell people to move things around, to decide to help police it..
We are a community, we cannot just say, "Let the Mods handle it..." There are way more of us than there are of them.
I could rant on this subject for hours but you get the point ....
Now not saying if it is the persons 1st or 2nd post that they should be pounced on, but should be nudged with whatever amount of force is needed to get them to understand.
The mods have enough problems to deal with, we should all be intelligent enough to, read the rules , read the stickies, and use some common sense ...
Thanks ....
Mods Please delete this if you feel it is over the top ..........
EDIT:
This really is a site wide issue not just picking on the LEO forum, but I am in this one 99.8925674% of the time, so figured I'd put my soapbox down here ...
While I agree with everything your saying Im not sure if ignoring the posts will do any good, they'll just end up posting again 20 minutes later asking why nobodys responding to them.........
I've not been around here all that long but I get the impression that this epidemic of repetitive questions and pointless threads is a fairly recent thing and is getting worse and worse...... No doubt this is due to so called "smartphones" being made more readily available to dumbasses, myself included.
The only reason I ever ended up visiting XDA was because I had a problem with my shiny new windows mobile and google directed me here as I'm sure it does to hundreds of people on a daily basis.
I dont really think that there is any sure way to reduce the amount of pointlessness thats occuring.
Perhaps a 24 waiting period between registering and being able to post might encourage those who turn up for the first time to search before posting.
Unfortunately we have to put up with the fact that 94.6% of the worlds populations are just dicks.............
conantroutman said:
While I agree with everything your saying Im not sure if ignoring the posts will do any good, they'll just end up posting again 20 minutes later asking why nobodys responding to them.........
I've not been around here all that long but I get the impression that this epidemic of repetitive questions and pointless threads is a fairly recent thing and is getting worse and worse...... No doubt this is due to so called "smartphones" being made more readily available to dumbasses, myself included.
The only reason I ever ended up visiting XDA was because I had a problem with my shiny new windows mobile and google directed me here as I'm sure it does to hundreds of people on a daily basis.
I dont really think that there is any sure way to reduce the amount of pointlessness thats occuring.
Perhaps a 24 waiting period between registering and being able to post might encourage those who turn up for the first time to search before posting.
Unfortunately we have to put up with the fact that 94.6% of the worlds populations are just dicks.............
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I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
watcher64 said:
I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
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One reason we (and I refer to new folks like me) have a difficulty with this (well I do, any road up) is that the thread header, or whatever they're called are so full of guff.. unnecessary messing about with symbols and other distracting crapola. I for one am looking for another theme to replace my constantly crashing sense and am always lost.
Perhaps a plea for making the headers clearer would be necessary too
blakeboro said:
One reason we (and I refer to new folks like me) have a difficulty with this (well I do, any road up) is that the thread header, or whatever they're called are so full of guff.. unnecessary messing about with symbols and other distracting crapola. I for one am looking for another theme to replace my constantly crashing sense and am always lost.
Perhaps a plea for making the headers clearer would be necessary too
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I would not argue against that point at all .... Can't find it or even search for it , if it is unreadable in the first place ....
watcher64 said:
I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
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Yeah that does sound fair enough...........
Ive just had a good laugh at the thought of somebody walking into a bakery and asking how to flash there HD2..........
@blakeboro - a lot of the thread titles actually give a pretty good indication of what they are about (once you get used to it), but your right some are just total gibberish, there are guidelines on how to title releases etc but as with most of the rules they tend to be ignored far too often.......
Let me throw in my $0.02 in here.
As watcher mentioned already, there are very few of us compared to the sheer volume of users that we get on a daily basis and it is very difficult for us to do everything we do, plus having to baby sit people who cannot read the rules.
The rules of the site are very simple and straight forward. In fact, Rule #1 is "Search before you post". Even if the title of the thread itself is misleading, you don't have to go through threads to find what you are looking for. The site does have a search engine, which may not be the best, but it gets the job done. Also, you have our friend Google...
Responding harshly to threads/posts with questions that are completely out of place may work (most times it doesn't though), but here is the approach that I have always used. Flaming the user takes you nowhere and tends to ignite flame wars as users get pissed with one another. Shortly after that, since this is a public forum, everyone and their grandmother believes that they are entitled to give their two cents/piece of mind... and that's when things begin to get ugly, which is why we have to get involved and in many cases, we (moderators) end up looking like bad guys because we don't allow user A to tell user B what he/she thinks of the situation. There have been many instances where users just flat out turn against mods, stating that we are on power trips and stuff like that, case which couldn't be further away from the truth.
Ignoring the posts doesn't really cut it either as it is very likely that the user in question will either bump his question or ask again. As much as we don't like it, it happens... a lot. So, if you have the time, it helps us tremendously when you report the posts, because we can move the post/thread to where the person may get help and not be flamed for it, which in turn avoids the flame war situation depicted above. It helps also if you don't post inflammatory comments in the post of the "Search you stupid n00b" line.
If you know the answer and feel like helping others, simply post the answer with an explanation that next time, he should post in the right section. Otherwise, just report it and we will move it.
FYI, this has been the case for XDA for as long as the site has been running. It happens more nowadays because our user base is on the rise.
@egzthunder1 I do agree with not flaming them, but at the same time a "Flame" is a relative term, we have seen threads blow up , just by suggesting they search, because their post is a couple of days old and nobody has the answer ...
So really I don't know what the answer is, I don't think anybody does, how do you "make" someone learn ...
I mean to use the analogy I used earlier, it is like going into a bakery shop to get your cars oil changed, if the person stopped and read the sign that mistake would not be made ...
The problem on forums I think is the anonymity of the internet/forum, people think they can shut their brain off, and since we don't know who they are we'll spoonfeed them just to shut them up ...
This does not make a good environment for anybody here, the Devs get bogged down with BS posts, the Users have to wade through countless posts to find what they are looking for.
So while it is not a perfect solution, while not ignoring their posts, waiting till they are in the right place or asked correctly/nicely, to answer them might start to train them, pavlov's dogs and all ....
I just reported quite a few in the themes and apps forum. I really don't see a way to stop it without posing an undue burden on the moderators.
You could for instance have all "new" post in the themes and apps forum have to be approved by a moderator.
Or perhaps have a question come up asking if this is a new theme, app, wallpaper, ringtone, question, request, etc. when someone clicks to post a "new" thread. This could even insert "[THEME]", "[APP]", "[WALLPAPERS]" into the thread title as most authors currently do and new question, request selections could go to the Q&A forums instead of posting in the apps forum.
The problem is the first way would burden down the moderators even more while the second would require some special programming.
I think that instead of just having the forum layout of the threads oldest to newest, replies to a specific thread be attached to that tread and to see them you have to expand them. Just sayin.
Phantoms said:
I just reported quite a few in the themes and apps forum. I really don't see a way to stop it without posing an undue burden on the moderators.
You could for instance have all "new" post in the themes and apps forum have to be approved by a moderator.
Or perhaps have a question come up asking if this is a new theme, app, wallpaper, ringtone, question, request, etc. when someone clicks to post a "new" thread. This could even insert "[THEME]", "[APP]", "[WALLPAPERS]" into the thread title as most authors currently do and new question, request selections could go to the Q&A forums instead of posting in the apps forum.
The problem is the first way would burden down the moderators even more while the second would require some special programming.
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Yeah. I counted 13+ that you reported. That's insane! Thanks for the help but unforunately I cannot do it since it's not my fora. I like your ideas... that is all but the "must approve post" one. There are currently 2,511,618 active members and it's growing on a daily basis. And the handful of moderators (only about 80 or so and 29 of them are device specific such as myself) have 434,244 threads to monitor as of this moment for the 84 different devices. So it's very difficult for us to continuously monitor half a million threads for 84+ devices with only 80 moderators. (ref stats)
Also keep in mind that because of this very limited amount of moderators to keep the site organized, clean and friendly it would be difficult and not to mention very time consuming to approve new threads each time and still be productive in the forums.
There is also the matter of urgancy.
I have come across more posts than I could count that someone has literally begged for immediate assistance. It could take hours or even days to approve the post for that member. We are trying to encourage people to use the site. That may only prove to be counter-productive.
The idea of a quick questionaire might help... but even I would have to admit that there have been times that I've seen a post that could be relavant to multiple forums (such as a question or statement about building roms, Q&A or development?) It's a tough call for even some of the most experienced members and may prove to be too much of a hassle. Oh and Watcher, this really should be in General since it's not actually pertaining to this particular device but to the forum as a whole. Even you mentioned this yourself in your original thread which only proves my point that there can be a black and white area as to where to post something.
So in the meantime just continue doing what your doing and they will be moved eventually. What I tend to do in my forums is move the thead in question and post a reason as to why I moved it. Sometimes send a warning to the OP stating that (s)he should review the forum rules about searching and post in the appropriate thread or else I won't just move it next time... I'll move and close it until he sends me a quote of forum rule #1 and give me at least three reasons as to why it is important to post in the correct section. In my opinion we should educate these members since most of them are Junior Members.
Which brings me to my idea. I have this crazy idea that for Junior Members ONLY should have to go through a CAPTCHA verification on a agreement of the rules before being able to post anything. That way if these members do post in the wrong section it gives us more grounds to take the appropriate action. It may also cut down on the SPAM that the site receives.
In any case, keep reporting the posts and we'll keep cleaning it up for ya.
Binary100100 said:
Which brings me to my idea. I have this crazy idea that for Junior Members ONLY should have to go through a CAPTCHA verification on a agreement of the rules before being able to post anything. That way if these members do post in the wrong section it gives us more grounds to take the appropriate action. It may also cut down on the SPAM that the site receives.
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Oh I like that idea, say for people under 50 posts have to use a CAPTCHA and maybe on that CAPTCHA , a reminder to search before posting and to re-read their post before submitting ...
I am sure that most of the people here that do the things we are talking about, would be just as annoyed if someone bugged them the same way with their chosen hobby.
Another suggestion, if we were able to modify the forum this much, would be to have buttons underneath the first post saying: "Use forum search!" or "repeated question!" - if say, 10+ people click the button, then an automatic reply is generated saying: "Please use the forum search for answers" etc.
(These could appear for a new member's first 10 posts etc)
We also have to realize that in the HD2 Leo forums, the Q&A forum was just recently added. So you have to change people's habits of posting those questions, request, etc. in the Themes and Apps forum. Along with that you have a ton of posts already in the Themes and Apps forum that will need to be moved to the Q&A forum as replies bring them back to the top of the Themes and Apps forum.
Binary100100 said:
Yeah. I counted 13+ that you reported. That's insane! Thanks for the help but unforunately I cannot do it since it's not my fora. I like your ideas... that is all but the "must approve post" one. There
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Yeah, reported about as many tonight. Just think what would happen if you didn't have to wait 1min between reports. Not really. I go through my regular routine of reading the new post in the themes and apps forum as usual. The ones that don't belong in that forum (questions, request, etc.) I open in separate tabs and report as I can while reading through the rest of the new post.
The "must approve" suggestion I knew would be to burdensome on moderators. On just new threads it's a lot of added work. I don't think whatever route is taken you have to worry about individual replies, just entire threads that are off topic. If you could find a way to automate the moving of improper "new" threads that would cut moderators work in half right there. That's where the suggestion for adding a selection when clicking "New Thread" of the type of thread (and automatically moving those in the wrong forum) came from. Still, some users would get wise to it, not care and click the wrong selection (App instead of Question) just so they could get their thread started in the wrong section.
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
2. More Mods! I think just one or two more mods can help the forums a lot and clean things up.
3. Warnings for people who post questions that have already been answered on the front page of a thread or faq followed by a temp ban if they continue.
I'm really tired of the cycle of
- Dumb question posted
- Followed by "read the damn thread or use the damn search button"
- Followed by "Hey you were a noob once and theres no harm in answering the question you ass along with lengthy answer on the question that will inevitable be asked 10 more times in the near future"
- Continue flame war that now has nothing to do with the thread anymore
You enable people by holding their hands. Don't be an enabler. If you managed to find out how to do all this crap on your own, they can too. At most you should point them to the right thread and let them read up on it on their own so they can further their own education.
4. Don't PM the Devs for requests. They have enough work on their hands and don't need to be flooded. Remember the rule of think before you speak? Try thinking before you PM.
Anyhoo, there was a bunch more, but I'm sure you guys/gals have other ideas.
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand why the "[How To] Return to Stock / Fix Bricked Epic" thread is not sticked.
If someone posts they bricked their phone and needs help you post the link to that thread and lock it.
I like the sentiment of this thread but fear it might be taken the wrong way. Whosdaman is really a wonderful guy and has been very helpful to me but it seems like he is very busy (and who can blame him for dealing with things outside of the interwebs?) so I support this I would also like to issue a blanket "Thank you for your hard work" to Whosdaman.
Seeing as this is a collection of developers I don't see why we don't customize the forum itself.
I don't see any reason we can't flag the development and Q/A threads for every phone. Then, if "is this a question" is set to yes, automatically put it in that phone's Q/A forum. On top of which we could add a "You are posting in the development forum, this is reserved for people developing for [insert phone]. Please check the box below to confirm that you are developing something you wish to share." anytime people posted in the development forum.
Obviously people can still screw it up, if nothing else on purpose, but we can expect people who have never been on the forums to know how the forums are laid out, usually by reading the rules, which never happens, to sort their own, or we can make it as self sorting as possible.
Sounds like whosedaman just needs some support. Perhaps another mod added to help out. We all have to keep in mind that these guys don't get paid for this and real life always trumps forums life. Just my thought on this.
Sent from my Epic while i should be working
I was wondering why there was so much confusion in this forum, as I really liked the forums I used for the month I had a Moment before the Epic dropped. Was there ever a forum on here for the moment??? I couldnt find one, so I checked sdx, which I remember lurking back then and found my answer. Why can't Xda have 'child forums', with descriptions of where and why to post things?? They have a 'market' forum section for ROMs, etc, which we here are using development exclusively. I understand why, but it seems its this way here because of limited tools for organizing, can this sites software not do that? It is completely logical and intuitive to post questions directly regarding development or roms in the development section if you are new... I would have expected a sub-forum for roms only, or at least some direction other than after the fact... usually unless its horribly out of order, whosdaman is pretty polite about it, and given the feelings regarding this device, things get silly in here. Anyways, yes, at least sticky all roms and things 'coolguy' or whatever dont warrant flaming, and then politely notify the new people that questions regarding development actually get booted over to general, where intuitively people would assume GENERAL questions like 'do you like gmail or the stock app better?'.
More mods? Better structure? Who has control over this? Are there any experienced volunteers that can help whosdaman out with his daunting task?
We need to expect more 'joined in Dec 2010' and later members as every idiot with a blog and engadget included seem to think this site and forum are the authority, even over Sprint and Samsung (if XDA says 2.2 is dropping, it must be true, head over there and complain about it). NOTHING against new members, just that there is little direction other than the 'rules' that most people think are just 'dont flame, no kiddie porn... etc...' Dont get all elitist because people couldnt figure out your simple, non-intuitive structure because its their first 5 mins here.
Love this forum, but its like people are baited into getting flamed by assuming this forum runs like most any other... I thought I saw the end of this when I refused to go to another BBC chat... guess not.
If you feel that you must deputize yourself, please, copy the link to the wiki, rules, etc and paste them in misplaced, repeat threads and leave it at that.
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
I'm willing to be a mod here I have experience and would know and how to handle things here...
Admins or mods pm me
sent from my Epic 4G
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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Click to collapse
Did you do a search before posting this? There's already a thread on it, learn how to use the search.
Ok, that was my attempt at humor
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Click to collapse
I don't think this is fluff at all and whosdaman does deserve to be thanked for his, well, thankless work.
1488 is a race thing. They usually won't tell you what the ideology of it is in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Although I don't agree with the sentiment of the belief structure, I support their right to peacefully observe their beliefs.
Yeah I know that meaning its generally a tattooed target, was just hoping it was just some retarded interweb speak. Sorry to hear. Almost forgot what it was though... not many Boneheads around here, not anymore.
BTW, I respect Lady Gaga's work, although I dont like it, therefore I see no reason to put it in my username.... its ok, you have a right to be a Nazi in this country...
Regrettably, I do read almost every thread in this forum, and forums I maintain...
<--------- Look here, I have 8 forums to maintain full time, but 6 are dead lol
Yeah I do have a life outside this for sure. Not only am I a senior in High School, I am on the Mock Trial team, the Robotics Team, a Sales Representative for Sprint, and a Writer for BriefMobile.com
So yeah I would say I'm busy, but I look over the entire forum as much as I can. Shep211 has been extremely busy in his personal life, that's why I started helping.
It is a thankless job, it's a volunteer job. All free, I don't get paid. The only thanks comes from the owner of the site when I say "if you fix this the site will be better."
Besides all that I can single handedly control this entire forum. I know it sometimes looks cluttered and in a mess, but then again...the Development section is spotless, which is truely the only thing that matters. The General section is meant to be a mess because it's where everyone posts their questions and complaints.
There are applications to become a moderator here on XDA, you have to meet certain requirements to be considered and then be approved. No one of this forum knows my experience as a moderator unless you used GameBattles.com for PS3.
If you want to help me out the most, please please please, use the "Report Post" feature. Every reported post goes straight to my inbox, and I see every single one. Normally RP's get extra attention as they obviously have bothered someone enough to have it reported. 90% of the RP's are either Ghost or Kenvan.
The search feature would do alot of people good, it's nice to tell people to do something, but Report the post/thread and I'll take care of it. You clutter up the forum and threads by posting in threads saying to post in General, just report it. That's all.
Sure, I wish everyone searched because there are at least 5 can't root threads. I would rather merge them all but it too much work to find them. Like I said, let the noobs make their mistake. The members report the post, don't tell them they were wrong. I'll move it, shoot them a PM, and then post in their thread telling them where they should have posted. Then hopefully they will learn.
Thanks again,
WDM
kenvan19 said:
Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
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Sorry, fluff may have been a wrong choice of words, I was implying that as this has been talked about before, and ignored by the powers that be, I saw it was going to end up an off topic post eventually, or at least until the elitist post Nazis (no offense bigjim) came in and said how we are cluttering their precious first page of posts, because as most have trouble with the AMAZING search function, a lot here have a lot of trouble with 'next page', you dont even have to pick which page, it takes you right to the next one!
Sorry, this is just getting really retarded around here, oh and BigJim,apologies, last comment on your beliefs, if off topic, but being an anarcho-punk, its hard not to at least ask if that is REALLY what you are talking about.
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
I certainly appreciate all the hard work Whosdaman has been doing with these forums, but unless he enjoys handling all this, wouldn't an extra mod or two be helpful?
My biggest thing is the FAQ post. Someone asks questions, you can point and say you should have read that first. Like I said before, the Wiki is great, but its a little cluttered and outdated as well as being hard to edit. Having one person willing to just moderate that one thread would be so helpful.
It bugs me when the whole community seems to be represented by the lazy people who just spam post. There are plenty of helpful, polite and very well informed that get lost among the clutter. In fact, they probably outnumber the newbies but don't feel the need to post nonsense. For every idiot that asks a dumb question, there are probably 10 that actually do research and figure it out for themselves.
kenvan19 said:
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
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Click to collapse
Nope, I love you and ghost for reporting post. I always look forward to waking up and seeing 10 new PMs lol
ungovernable1977 said:
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no control over sub-forums. And right now it is only me working on the entire Epic forum. Like I said shep211 is gone atm.
svetius is in charge of the entire site, and I've talked to him about improvements that can be made. I wouldn't bother him too much or he'll just ignore ya. Most of the time the only things he is interested is fixing errors with the site itself. Right now I don't think we are in the area of reorganizing the entire site.
ok, so adding a subforum is not possible? Or is it a decision to make the structure uniform across the whole site? Just thinking, because this forum is like maximum security, different from the rest... or so it would seem...
I'm not so sure making more areas, and thus more chances to be wrong, is a good way to combat posting in the wrong area.
If you have a rom question, ask it in the rom thread. All that would happen if there were subforums for things in development, and discussion of things in development is we'd have 37 threads about how "I just discovered ___ doesn't work in [rom]" instead of 50 posts about it in the rom thread.
(Not to mention you'd then be blurring the line of when it is or isn't ok to post in the DEV forum, where as now, if the person bothers to read, there's a pretty clear cut "If you aren't about to post about the thing you just developed, GTFO" rule.)
Like many, I was more than saddened with what happenned on XDA/X10 forii regarding some development threads yesterday.
Without wanting to start yet another flame war, some suggestions to help to try to prevent this and other nastiness from repeating itself in the future:
TO ALL USERS
- XDA is a space meant for collaboration and sharing information. Use it for that
- XDA is not a chat room. Posts just to thank or put down another user do nothing to help its purpose (There is a reason for the "Thanks" button).
...Nor do posts whose only content is "Use the search tool" or "posted previously in this thread" (w/o further information) or similar - while some people may in fact be lazy enough to not to search/look in some cases it's kind of hard to look through 300+ pages of posts to find 1 link or piece of information. Or to sort through hundreds of hits to a search. If you know the answer to a question, please share it. If not, welll....don't say anything.
- USE THE SEARCH TOOL and HAVE A LOOK AT A FEW PAGES of the thread of interest before posting the question .Likely you will find your answer and it helps PREVENTING threads from reaching the aforementioned 300+ pages, of which maybe like 30 pages actually contain INFORMATION.
- REMEMBER that what you are getting, you are getting for free. That applies both to stuff developed and put up on XDA, be it ROMS, tweaks, patches, whatever and to the wonderful people behind XDA - moderators, etc... whose work is often forgotten. If we as users can't be expected to read through all posts in a forum, why should we expect mods to have to act as if they had the time to do this?
- Having said that, if you like a development/tip/tweak, whatever, use the thanks button and leave it at that. If you don't like something, leave it at that. Posts to the effect of "You are God" or "You sleep with the devil" do nothing but mess with egos. And this forum is about messing with mobile computing platforms, not egos.
TO MODERATORS
- Please refrain from deleting threads. If they get out of hand (and they sometimes do) I humbly suggest that you (a) close them and/or (b) ban any offending users, albeit if only temporarily (aka "suspension").
For all the crap that may have gotten into a thread, most if not all threads contain a lot of useful information that may/will get lost if the thread is deleted. so the non-guilty parties get shafted as badly as the guilty. And I prefer to think that the majority of users are actually interested in moving things forward.
- Just an idea - but rather than having a simple requirement to have an account to post, would it be possible for you guys to set up a system whereby certain forums could only be posted to by users of a certain seniority - and preferably with a distinction to starting new threads or replying to existing threads.
Following on to this, I believe that the seniority requirements can be improved in a relatively easy way - maturity comes from experience, which is not necessarily related to # of posts (any fool can type 30 irrelevant posts in a day). What would you say to a system where, in addition to a minimum # of posts, a user needs to have been a member/at his previous seniority level for a certain amount of time? That should not be too difficult to implement and would help people get into the feel of things before blabbing off. Short tempers usually can't hold off a couple of weeks/months...
- THANKS for this great place!!!! Your efforts are too often forgotten.
TO DEVELOPERS
- Thanks for your time, effort, patience and hard work. We really appreciate it!
- Please consider that the strongest point of Android (hey, I'm posting this to the X10 forum, which is Android, no beef against WM or any other platforms) is that it is OPEN, meaning we can ALL work on it, improve it, tweak it, etc...
- That means that users can by default consider whatever is posted as being OPEN and can do likewise. If you feel that whatever you have developed/done is NOT open, then say so. And if you want a stronger protection for your work, or users aren't respecting your work, then publish it under some kind of license so everyone else knows what to expect and you have legal grounds - GPL, LGPL, ASL, Berkeley, etc... there are a number of them to choose from.
- Collaboration means being open to new ideas, praise and constructive criticism. Attitudes like "THIS **** IS MINE AND NOONE TOUCHES IT" (pardon the profanity) isn't really very constructive in an open source environment. You are not god. Help and inspiration may come from even the least probable places.
Well, that was long-winded. If I have offended anyone (I hope not) pardonnez-moi
"
...Nor do posts whose only content is "Use the search tool" or "posted previously in this thread" (w/o further information) or similar - while some people may in fact be lazy enough to not to search/look in some cases it's kind of hard to look through 300+ pages of posts to find 1 link or piece of information. Or to sort through hundreds of hits to a search. If you know the answer to a question, please share it. If not, welll....don't say anything."
actually. members are supposed to read the thread and look for answers. thus eliminating redundant and repeat posts
All in all though ideas that are already in place
If people respect the rules then good things happen
And as for not deleting threads
if the dev leaves then there no point leaving it open. otherwise we jsut clean them
as someone who runs a forum and moderates, deleting people's posts for no reason, is pretty poor. Mine was deleted for no reason and no explanation. The situation in the end was to the poorer for XDA. As a DEV left, and could be followed up by more. Instead of a calm hand, all members got was a heavey handed approach, threatening bans. Sorry that is a crap way. and in end has lost XDA many members. how sad
-PiLoT- said:
actually. members are supposed to read the thread and look for answers. thus eliminating redundant and repeat posts
All in all though ideas that are already in place
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Click to collapse
Sure thing - but adding an additional post to JUST say "look in the thread" only makes it longer. No need since the rule is already in place, right?
-PiLoT- said:
And as for not deleting threads
if the dev leaves then there no point leaving it open. otherwise we jsut clean them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely - CLOSE them - they will take up some disk space and trickle down through the thread (being closed).
Cleaning some threads would take you guys ages (500+ pages in some cases).
Deleting them however loses information, whether the dev has left or not (he may always come back as has happened...) and only fans flames for conspiracy theories and other idiocies...I do concede that leaving them there may also spur more garbage initially, but that will stop as the (closed) thread ages.
acmbc said:
Sure thing - but adding an additional post to JUST say "look in the thread" only makes it longer. No need since the rule is already in place, right?
yes but sometime sits the steps that people need to take since people will not read the rules
Precisely - CLOSE them - they will take up some disk space and trickle down through the thread (being closed).
Cleaning some threads would take you guys ages (500+ pages in some cases).
Deleting them however loses information, whether the dev has left or not (he may always come back as has happened...) and only fans flames for conspiracy theories and other idiocies...I do concede that leaving them there may also spur more garbage initially, but that will stop as the (closed) thread ages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the last lot of threads were closed not deleted
Crocodile1973 said:
as someone who runs a forum and moderates, deleting people's posts for no reason, is pretty poor. Mine was deleted for no reason and no explanation. The situation in the end was to the poorer for XDA. As a DEV left, and could be followed up by more. Instead of a calm hand, all members got was a heavey handed approach, threatening bans. Sorry that is a crap way. and in end has lost XDA many members. how sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
some posts are deleted during a routine thread cleanup
Im not saying your suggestions have no merit.
im saying that some of them are already looked into and some wont work as weve tried them in the past
-PiLoT- said:
Im not saying your suggestions have no merit.
im saying that some of them are already looked into and some wont work as weve tried them in the past
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kudos to that. If it's been tried and not worked, my bad.
acmbc said:
Like many, I was more than saddened with what happenned on XDA/X10 forii regarding some development threads yesterday.
Without wanting to start yet another flame war, some suggestions to help to try to prevent this and other nastiness from repeating itself in the future:
TO ALL USERS
TO MODERATORS
TO DEVELOPERS
- Thanks for your time, effort, patience and hard work. We really appreciate it!
- Please consider that the strongest point of Android (hey, I'm posting this to the X10 forum, which is Android, no beef against WM or any other platforms) is that it is OPEN, meaning we can ALL work on it, improve it, tweak it, etc...
- That means that users can by default consider whatever is posted as being OPEN and can do likewise. If you feel that whatever you have developed/done is NOT open, then say so. And if you want a stronger protection for your work, or users aren't respecting your work, then publish it under some kind of license so everyone else knows what to expect and you have legal grounds - GPL, LGPL, ASL, Berkeley, etc... there are a number of them to choose from.
- Collaboration means being open to new ideas, praise and constructive criticism. Attitudes like "THIS **** IS MINE AND NOONE TOUCHES IT" (pardon the profanity) isn't really very constructive in an open source environment. You are not god. Help and inspiration may come from even the least probable places.
Well, that was long-winded. If I have offended anyone (I hope not) pardonnez-moi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, my 2 cents
i agree on the "users" part
on the "to moderators" part, i disagree
mods don't need to "refrain" from deleting threads, that's what mods do. they do it for specific reasons, not just because they are self-proclaimed e-gods with a ban hammer. if threads need closed or deleted, that's what mods are here for. also, this site is not a democracy. a lot of members don't seem to understand that petitions and moral support for offending members who were banned or threads closed/deleted, will not exactly unban/reopen. granted, i'm sure if there was a collaborated majority between the mods, it will. but users making 30+ separate threads on the same subject (or lately the same dev) only makes things worse. all of these trip apostles are doing more harm than good. i know all these recent trip threads annoy the crap out of me, i can only imagine the work and annoyance it brings moderators.
as far as the dev section of your post goes
you can't take info/sources from some, then accuse EVERY dev for using yours, making comments like "i'm going to download this and check the files for my sources". seriously, it's unprofessional and immature.
as far as the trip situation goes
i have no idea what happened last night, but, where as he may be a great dev, being a dev is NOT for him. he cannot take criticism, he wants to share nothing with other devs, he was not working collabratively with anyone to benefit the community, and honestly, he seems the have the attitude of a 14 y/o girl. how many times does one person need to "threaten with leaving", then never doing so. then upon realizing that not enough begs to stay filled his ego, actually leave only to make a sudden reappearance because, there's really no other dev site out there to the extent of xda.
this isn't the first time he's been gone, although i this time was not his choice, i'm sure he will be back again.
oh, one other thing, you go to any other sub-forum on xda, and there is no drama like there is on the x10 sections. seriously, did SE market these things specifically to 14 y/o drama queens?
svtfmook said:
well, my 2 cents
i agree on the "users" part
on the "to moderators" part, i disagree
mods don't need to "refrain" from deleting threads, that's what mods do. they do it for specific reasons, not just because they are self-proclaimed e-gods with a ban hammer. if threads need closed or deleted, that's what mods are here for. also, this site is not a democracy. a lot of members don't seem to understand that petitions and moral support for offending members who were banned or threads closed/deleted, will not exactly unban/reopen. granted, i'm sure if there was a collaborated majority between the mods, it will. but users making 30+ separate threads on the same subject (or lately the same dev) only makes things worse. all of these trip apostles are doing more harm than good. i know all these recent trip threads annoy the crap out of me, i can only imagine the work and annoyance it brings moderators.
as far as the dev section of your post goes
you can't take info/sources from some, then accuse EVERY dev for using yours, making comments like "i'm going to download this and check the files for my sources". seriously, it's unprofessional and immature.
as far as the trip situation goes
i have no idea what happened last night, but, where as he may be a great dev, being a dev is NOT for him. he cannot take criticism, he wants to share nothing with other devs, he was not working collabratively with anyone to benefit the community, and honestly, he seems the have the attitude of a 14 y/o girl. how many times does one person need to "threaten with leaving", then never doing so. then upon realizing that not enough begs to stay filled his ego, actually leave only to make a sudden reappearance because, there's really no other dev site out there to the extent of xda.
this isn't the first time he's been gone, although i this time was not his choice, i'm sure he will be back again.
oh, one other thing, you go to any other sub-forum on xda, and there is no drama like there is on the x10 sections. seriously, did SE market these things specifically to 14 y/o drama queens?
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I agree with you.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Trip's work, heck, I even use it on my phone these past months.
There's a post I made in "News about current circumstances" thread that explains my point extensively.
Also, I know it in my gut that he will be back for sure.
You know why?
He feeds on publicity and Modaco forums are too low-populated for his huge ego.
I hope though, that upon his return he will be much more sophisticated and reasonable,
for the sake of every one here.
One can always dream...
PS: I was a 14 year old girl 10 years ago and, man, I'm telling you, I was a major drama queen.
I want to believe I've grown out of it though.
I really think the ideas from the original post would be used in some way at least. Good post OP. Hope xda considers this. There are some great ideas here.
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App
Originally Posted by dude64
I love xda as it is such a great resource and adds and improves upon the functionality the devices for so many users. Thanks to all the people who put in hard work. But, I hate the attitude of the senior members and the more seasoned users towards those of us who are relatively inexperienced. I requested to point me to the relative thread/forum. What do you mean by topic list? Under general or development or this thread itself? Thanks.
I have been on this forum for quit a while and as a SENIOR I also do not like the attitude of some of the people. Not all of us give noobs a hard time. I do think pointing a person in the right direction is OK and also letting them know that reading is fundimental is OK, but I see some members going around and doing nothing but telling people how many times this has already been answered and if they would only take 5 seconds to read. You are correct, some people do need to read some before chiming in, but there is no reason to be an ASS. This is a great resource, but people will shy away if members continue to act this way. This forum was created to help out the users of new devices and a place to develop the hardware and make it better for all, so lets get back to that!
XDA also has rules, here's the very first one.
Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
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FloatingFatMan said:
XDA also has rules, here's the very first one.
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I know the rules. I see no problem with you pointing out the rules, but to go trolling the threads and just telling the new guys that this has been already answered does no one any good. You can use a little more tact and still be helpful. Isn't that the main reason for this forum?
dalepl said:
I know the rules. I see no problem with you pointing out the rules, but to go trolling the threads and just telling the new guys that this has been already answered does no one any good. You can use a little more tact and still be helpful. Isn't that the main reason for this forum?
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I do, but after a dozen repetitions of the same question, it DOES become time to tell people to search for themselves.
When I first came here, that's EXACTLY what I did. I took my time, I read the reads, I used search. I didn't ask a SINGLE question until I was sure the answer wasn't already there, and in doing so I learned.
Helping people is fine; changing their diapers for them, isn't.
FloatingFatMan said:
I do, but after a dozen repetitions of the same question, it DOES become time to tell people to search for themselves.
When I first came here, that's EXACTLY what I did. I took my time, I read the reads, I used search. I didn't ask a SINGLE question until I was sure the answer wasn't already there, and in doing so I learned.
Helping people is fine; changing their diapers for them, isn't.
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I do totally agree with you. I am just saying right now, you are coming accross as hostile. Try backing off. I see no problem with telling a noob to search and read first before asking a question, but I see no reason to tell them how dumb they are being on the first question. Now, if they continue, all bets are off. You can do as you want with them.
I really like this site and feel it is a great resource for people. Especially since you can not expect this from the companies, but I really do not want people to not ask a question in fear of getting beratted by someone because they did not read. Point out thier mistake and with any hope, they will comply.
As a fairly new member, but a fairly active one, I gotta say that sometimes the attitude on here reminds me of my local Staples...which is to say pretty ****ty. I know that its a pain to have to answer the same question over and over again, but you can't fault someone for not knowing. Realizing that sometimes you just want to grab someone and shake them, while screaming "just use the damn search feature!" but even so, a little more temperance and a little less condescension would be a good thing.
agree with op
I think thisnis exactly correct.I notice its not always the same person over and over asking things discusses or solved.I have also noticed that the majority of the repeated questions come from those who are not. Great with English.
The truth is its easier to yell and degrade someone then politely just ask them to search.I also believe the post telling someone they are a moron or other not so nice things are more against the rules here then the unnecessary post and adds to the drama.if you don't like it you dont have to answer.
It all comes down to respect everyone deserves it.even the lame people like myself as I have been called on here
I go back to my corner and shup as I should have not posted here to begin with
dalepl said:
.... but I really do not want people to not ask a question in fear of getting beratted by someone because they did not read.
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This is the internet. No matter how nasty you are or how nice you are, the same questions will be asked time and time again. There's nothing anyone can do about it.
It doesn't matter if someone reads the rules or not, it doesn't matter if someone searched or not - if they have a question they'll ask it - regardless.
You can have the answer in bright, bold, flashing letters on the main page and the question will still be asked. See it isn't about whether the answer is available or not, its that every person who asks does so with their own rationale and the belief that 'their question isn't exactly the same' and the answer they want isn't one they've found (even if its the impossible answer).
It's up to the individual whether they answer them, (positively or negatively isn't the point) or walk away.
So what, if some people choose to chew out other people. If that's how they want to interact with the community then so be it. The community will decide if that is acceptable or not and, in time, they'll either stop, or leave because they're frustrated with the none-Utopian forum they thought they could control.
dalepl said:
Originally Posted by dude64
I love xda as it is such a great resource and adds and improves upon the functionality the devices for so many users. Thanks to all the people who put in hard work. But, I hate the attitude of the senior members and the more seasoned users towards those of us who are relatively inexperienced. I requested to point me to the relative thread/forum. What do you mean by topic list? Under general or development or this thread itself? Thanks.
I have been on this forum for quit a while and as a SENIOR I also do not like the attitude of some of the people. Not all of us give noobs a hard time. I do think pointing a person in the right direction is OK and also letting them know that reading is fundimental is OK, but I see some members going around and doing nothing but telling people how many times this has already been answered and if they would only take 5 seconds to read. You are correct, some people do need to read some before chiming in, but there is no reason to be an ASS. This is a great resource, but people will shy away if members continue to act this way. This forum was created to help out the users of new devices and a place to develop the hardware and make it better for all, so lets get back to that!
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+1
Some people are irrationally and intentionally harsh and seem to exist solely to deride others consistently. I too think pointing people in the right direction is a good thing to do, but that's under the assumption that they genuinely didn't know to use the search. Some even mention using the search and still get less than stellar remarks as a response. It's of my opinion that if it's not constructive somehow, don't bother responding. Let someone with a bit more patience either answer or point them to the right place.
I agree with the OP as far as members of the forum go. The forum itself is actually very nice in that it will pop up a list of possible solutions based on your subject line. Whether or not new people or even older members use it is another matter.
it isn't something you can blame on XDA. i have been on the forums for years and while it does happen in every device subforum, The acer iconia section is just bad. I went from HTC tilt to touch HD to 2 X touch HD2 then an inspire and never saw the nastiness to the extent the acer forum has.
People just need to realize questions will always be asked even if the answer is in the post above the question. Instead of adding to the thread length with the go reads or quit being a noob or the has been answered x times, just don't reply to them unless you are willing to help. This way threads are shorter and if you do search you are more likely to find the answer then finding people *****ing about said question.
I think people just need to calm down and quit trying to be moderators, unless of course you are one. I help when i can and have been helped by many people on here. Without help these noobs will always be noobs. With some help they may become the next developer that the community pushes away with the over anxious "when's my next update coming"
I totally agree that people need to just calm down before responding. Answering the question, and TOTALLY reading the question, is far more helpful than responding to just do a search.
P.S. searching on here is VERY vague. The search at the top should default to the forum you are in, not the whole of XDA.
There's a lot of tears flowing here.
People will always be people...
agreed with the OP...
Im a long time member with very few posts, love the forums but prefer to stay away from the people.
wow
The internet tears are flowing...
Asked quite a few stupid questions when I was new, the responses from senior members taught me to solve my problems for myself and not create new threads when my issue had already been solved.
If you cannot handle a little bit of sarcasm when annoying thousands of members with questions that are already clearly answered, perhaps xda is not the place for you.
As for me, I am running CWM and the latest 3.1 thanks to the efforts of this community. I have learned more about Android and have refreshed some basic Linux knowledge, and have converted my cheapo Virgin Mobile Samsung Intercept into a reliable hotspot for my Acer a500.
Instead of getting upset and creating a new thread about how mean everyone is here; perhaps you should take a step back, emotionally distance yourself, learn how to use advanced search (pro tip: you *can* search just for threads about one device, learn to use advanced search) - and realize with the tools the community has provided for you here you are able to do pretty much anything you want with your Acer a500?
Or you can continue down the path of accusing everyone here of being rude. If you have any specific questions about the a500 - I am willing to help, as are many others.
Don't expect anyone to jump to the response if your question had already been answered, however. This community relies on your ability to learn how to use the search function.
I feel like sometimes the
"use search" is an answer to people who doesn't know as well...
A reply as
Use search , you will find : link to post related to
should be a better answer, at least if you waste your time to reply "use search" why not waste time in a complete reply...
It's true that is boring to see same topic, and have to give same reply (but in every weboard a MERGE function exist... moderator and administrator could if they got time of course, merge topics together... don't miss understand me, I do not say moderator and admin do not do good job)
Sometimes also a noob doesn't know how to search properly as well... IT'S A NOOB!
some are lazy, some are not.
I have been on this site for roughly 3 years and I do have to say there has been some increased crankiness. I also would say the amount of members and people with smart phones has increased substantially since then.
Would be cool if you could flag a duplicate topic for review by moderator so they can be easier to identify and merged appropriately
Well I have to say a little something on this.
I noticed the attitude on this forum and I tend to just read and learn.I type very little as I don't really want to draw attention to myself like now.
I am in the computer repair business and have seen this same attitude with customers from my peers.
And although I want to tell some people to leave me alone when they call I still keep civil with them. But I do appreciate all the learning I have gleaned on this forum.
Ya Cant Change Society
+1 to use the search.
However If I do reply to someone who is asking a question which has been answered time and time again.. I will post the search results that relate to the persons Question.
Not searching is probably my #1 Forum Pet peeve. People complain Ohh well there's like a 1000 Different posts on XYZ topic.. Well their wouldn't be if someone would of searched the first time rather than clogging the search pipes with another post of the same question that has been answered several times.
However Times are changing.. Generations are getting Lazier ... And still lots of people are unfamiliar with Forum etiquette.. Or are just wanting a instant answer now.. Not much any one person can do about any of that.
So if you feel sarcasm... Dont like how someone responds.. are not happy with the site / People .. I say to you... Move on... off to google.com with you to search out several other sites similar to this one to get your golden answer. Its the Internet you have the freedom to go elsewhere. but I'll tell you this your never gonna find a "tech" forum where the attitudes are much different.
Although I will admit there are issues here at XDA, they are working on them.. You cant change how people act around here.. Just as the new folks coming in will never use the search or read the rules.. BTW "technically" this entire thread is breaking the rules.. The thread is entirely in the wrong forum. And I hope the Moderator will see this and move it to its appropriate area.
just my 2 cents on it all.. its probably not even worth that.
"You Cant Change society as a whole, but Society can change an individual"
Ill say that one thing people need to take into account is that alot of members don't speak English as their first language. So they might not even know how to correctly search for an answer with the right words, per se.
The rules do say "use English", lol.
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