Database Users

Town Hall Meeting: Finished. See last post for Summary

Date: Monday May 24th, 2010
Time: From 9:00 am to 4:00 pm (EST)
Questions? pm me.
Thanks and hope to see you then.
This thread will remain closed until the specified time.

First of all, I wanted to welcome all of you and thank you for taking the time to put all the remaining issues to rest. As with anything on this site, please be courteous to others, don't flame, don't curse, and try to make your comments as meaningful as possible (in other words, don't troll )
This is a floor for discussion and debate, so whoever feels like speaking up, please do so. I believe that the first order of business is the fixxxer issue. Cbarlan (aka Papa_Smurf) already put me up to speed on that issue but I would like to have some more input from you all.

The only thing i will add to this is im tired of being accused and followed around here because im new, same goes for other newbies as well. This smixxxer guy is obviously a banned member and keeps signing up to stir up trouble. I know i accused neb of being him and i talked to a few members who told me it was not, so for that i humbly apologize. I firmly believe once someone is banned from here, they should stay banned. Id just like to see people start getting along more. In my mind fixxxer is talked about than the hero itself, he's not here anymore and the subject needs to end already.
Thats all id like to add to this as i have to go.

For me, personally, most of what I had issue with has been resolved, both through a bit more leniency from the mods (thanks you guys!), and the creation of the off-topic thread for us to blow off steam in.
Re: fixxer/nebs situation, I am prolly too biased on this to give much of an objective opinion. That being said, if nebs and fixxer are both willing to cool the vitriol a bit, I see no reason to keep the bans up. Others may feel differently, but that is where I stand.

Ban his IP. /End Game
EDIT:
I'll edit this by saying I know the IP thing is useless. Not much you can do other than watch out for the trolls.

Kcarpenter said:
Ban his IP. /End Game
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which his? smixxer?

I think it's just unfortunate there are such easy ways to get around a ban.
FYI and FWIW- I have not created any identities on this site other than this one and phenicks.
I am done with fixxxer even though he is obviously still here. I hope he can begin to grow up a little and stop fueling "the fire".
Without the ability to reliably ban someone from simply making a new login ID I would like to suggest the following as food for thought:
To help cut down on banned members coming right back to start more crap:
-2 to 4 week period before new members can post AND/OR
-2 to 4 week post (not read) restriction to general/q&a sections for new members
To help cut down on redundant and misplaced threads by noobs:
-20/30 post minimum before new members can make a new thread
To help clarify who is actually a senior member:
-500 posts to earn senior member status
(It can be confusing for a noob who to direct questions to, also I have seen as high as 32 posts/day counts.. senior member in 3-4 days?)
-neb

PS.
Thank you for the off topic lounge, that one is a home-run
And thank you to Egz and Ryan and other mods for your involvement lately. I for one am delighted to see the member side of you guys rather than just the moderator side.

nebenezer said:
I think it's just unfortunate there are such easy ways to get around a ban.
FYI and FWIW- I have not created any identities on this site other than this one and phenicks.
I am done with fixxxer even though he is obviously still here. I hope he can begin to grow up a little and stop fueling "the fire".
Without the ability to reliably ban someone from simply making a new login ID I would like to suggest the following as food for thought:
To help cut down on banned members coming right back to start more crap:
-2 to 4 week period before new members can post AND/OR
-2 to 4 week post (not read) restriction to general/q&a sections for new members
To help cut down on redundant and misplaced threads by noobs:
-20/30 post minimum before new members can make a new thread
To help clarify who is actually a senior member:
-500 posts to earn senior member status
(It can be confusing for a noob who to direct questions to, also I have seen as high as 32 posts/day counts.. senior member in 3-4 days?)
-neb
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Click to collapse
Neb buddy, are you refering to me?
I agree completely here. On several forums I have been on in the past there is a minimum reply number to current posts before you can start a new thread. This would stop the "Im new and don't wanna read" and also would prevent people from being banned and being able to go start a new account and have just as much going as they did before.

Kcarpenter said:
Neb buddy, are you refering to me?
I agree completely here. On several forums I have been on in the past there is a minimum reply number to current posts before you can start a new thread. This would stop the "Im new and don't wanna read" and also would prevent people from being banned and being able to go start a new account and have just as much going as they did before.
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^WORST-OFFENDER-EVER
Hahaha, J/K of course
Also, I think its great that this place is such a fantastic resource and I think it's great that many of the senior members have the patience to answer questions that come in the form of brand new threads in the wrong sections.
I'd like to see people (senior members) get more comfortable with prefacing their responses to these threads with "This should have gone <here>". I am not suggesting we don't answer these questions, I would just like to see some diligence guiding new people to post in the appropriate section. Lots of these kinds of threads get answered and it's not until half way down the page until someone acknowledges the thread was posted is in the wrong section. Not that its a heinous offense or anything but I think most would agree new threads in the wrong sections are inconvenient and happen A LOT.

tejasrichard said:
For me, personally, most of what I had issue with has been resolved, both through a bit more leniency from the mods (thanks you guys!), and the creation of the off-topic thread for us to blow off steam in.
Re: fixxer/nebs situation, I am prolly too biased on this to give much of an objective opinion. That being said, if nebs and fixxer are both willing to cool the vitriol a bit, I see no reason to keep the bans up. Others may feel differently, but that is where I stand.
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I believe the creation of the off subject lounge and leniency of the mods have made a huge difference. With that being said I believe that being respectful by both mods and users will greatly help. Yeah I know things get out of hand at times and that the mods get tired of hearing a million reports on this section. But commingle in here with an iron fist and then trying to sweep it under the rug hoping it will go away will never work. Getting to the root of the issue is a lot more effective and trying to resolve the problem out weighs bannings. I've said this in the past banning is almost a joke. Anyone can make a sock puppet account and keep causing problems. So what doea is solve.
To the users who r act like natzis...the mods will decide if a subject goes into a different section. Either contribute to the thread or shut up. I'm so tired of someone ask a question or post a thread and watch the wave of senior members (a select few all the time) say this should go to this section. Is it that hard to answer the question or post a link to the answer (this goes for the whole use the search button also). Sometimes when u search for an answer there r so many results and it shows all result including from first day forum started and some of those are way out of date and a noob isn't as experienced enough to sort through what newer and what's older.

nebenezer said:
I think it's just unfortunate there are such easy ways to get around a ban.
FYI and FWIW- I have not created any identities on this site other than this one and phenicks.
I am done with fixxxer even though he is obviously still here. I hope he can begin to grow up a little and stop fueling "the fire".
Without the ability to reliably ban someone from simply making a new login ID I would like to suggest the following as food for thought:
To help cut down on banned members coming right back to start more crap:
-2 to 4 week period before new members can post AND/OR
-2 to 4 week post (not read) restriction to general/q&a sections for new members
To help cut down on redundant and misplaced threads by noobs:
-20/30 post minimum before new members can make a new thread
To help clarify who is actually a senior member:
-500 posts to earn senior member status
(It can be confusing for a noob who to direct questions to, also I have seen as high as 32 posts/day counts.. senior member in 3-4 days?)
-neb
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Click to collapse
Hey neb,
For once, welcome back! I am glad that you guys are putting this whole thing behind. For the last few days, I have felt that things have really began to calm down in here (particularly because we don't see that many reported posts/threads from here anymore). I will take your suggestions to the site admin and the other mods and see what they think. Some of them can be a bit hard to implement (particularly the first two), but the other ones, I couldn't agree more (especially on the Senior Member threshold, I agree that 100 posts is just way too little). In fact, I invited the other mods and admin over here as well, so they might up in during the day as well. This thread is guaranteed to have exposure to everyone that needs to see it

Papa Smurf151 said:
To the users who r act like natzis...the mods will decide if a subject goes into a different section. Either contribute to the thread or shut up. I'm so tired of someone ask a question or post a thread and watch the wave of senior members (a select few all the time) say this should go to this section. Is it that hard to answer the question or post a link to the answer (this goes for the whole use the search button also). Sometimes when u search for an answer there r so many results and it shows all result including from first day forum started and some of those are way out of date and a noob isn't as experienced enough to sort through what newer and what's older.
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Agreed that searching can easily and often be a fruitless PITA.
As far as the response.. "if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all" (right?, lol)
I am not one to bust someones head for posting in the wrong section. I will sooner ignore the question.
I don't see any harm in telling someone they have posted in the wrong section but I think it would be great to see those types of comments accompanied by some sort of helpful reply.
*edit-
egzthunder1 said:
Hey neb,
For once, welcome back!
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Thanks Egz, Nice to meet ya!

egzthunder1 said:
Hey neb,
For once, welcome back! I am glad that you guys are putting this whole thing behind. For the last few days, I have felt that things have really began to calm down in here (particularly because we don't see that many reported posts/threads from here anymore). I will take your suggestions to the site admin and the other mods and see what they think. Some of them can be a bit hard to implement (particularly the first two), but the other ones, I couldn't agree more (especially on the Senior Member threshold, I agree that 100 posts is just way too little). In fact, I invited the other mods and admin over here as well, so they might up in during the day as well. This thread is guaranteed to have exposure to everyone that needs to see it
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Click to collapse
Ya know, I woud like to see guys from other devices in here as well. These changes being propsed aren't just relevant to CDMA Hero's. Post Count and status should effect the whole site.
To make XDA better as a whole and to maintain it's "Developers" status so to speak, you have to quiet the people asking basic questions some times.
Personally I am not good at training, I don't want to have to teach someone how to dial there phone

egzthunder1 said:
Hey neb,
For once, welcome back! I am glad that you guys are putting this whole thing behind. For the last few days, I have felt that things have really began to calm down in here (particularly because we don't see that many reported posts/threads from here anymore). I will take your suggestions to the site admin and the other mods and see what they think. Some of them can be a bit hard to implement (particularly the first two), but the other ones, I couldn't agree more (especially on the Senior Member threshold, I agree that 100 posts is just way too little). In fact, I invited the other mods and admin over here as well, so they might up in during the day as well. This thread is guaranteed to have exposure to everyone that needs to see it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, it took me no time at all to hit senior member status, and I don't post nearly as often as some (some of you may have a hard time believing this, but i'm still averaging less than a post a day. I like to think mine are just....memorable ). Though it might add more work, it might be useful to have 3 membership types instead of 2. I mean, I can TOTALLY see needing to be around for a while before you get your senior badge, I don't think it is necessary to make a dude wait till he has 500 posts to put up a link, you know what I mean?
EDIT: w00t! I lied! I just hit avg 1.05 posts per day!

Papa Smurf151 said:
To the users who r act like natzis...the mods will decide if a subject goes into a different section. Either contribute to the thread or shut up. I'm so tired of someone ask a question or post a thread and watch the wave of senior members (a select few all the time) say this should go to this section. Is it that hard to answer the question or post a link to the answer (this goes for the whole use the search button also). Sometimes when u search for an answer there r so many results and it shows all result including from first day forum started and some of those are way out of date and a noob isn't as experienced enough to sort through what newer and what's older.
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Click to collapse
Hey cb, I mean Papa
Love the new avatar... I guess now I understand why you wanted your name changed . Moving threads for us is a bit of a nuisance, but it has to be done so that important sub forums don't get flooded by a bunch of "asking for help" or "what do you guys think its better x or y" threads, none of which are exclusive to noobs, but some seniors as well.
The way I usually handle (or at least I used to handle when I was a regular member) the out of place threads, was normally to direct towards a solution and used the "Report" icon on the thread/post to get a mod to either move it or delete it, if needed be. People who just flat out burst into flaming or insulting the member asking the question are simply out of place and should not do that. However, I have learned over the years that many people on the internet (not only here) would much rather write a long rant on how someone should google before asking questions, than to simply say "here is the link" and pressing the report button saying "please move to x y z section"... I guess it is a culture thing...

nebenezer said:
Agreed that searching can easily and often be a fruitless PITA.
As far as the response.. "if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all" (right?, lol)
I am not one to bust someones head for posting in the wrong section. I will sooner ignore the question.
I don't see any harm in telling someone they have posted in the wrong section but I think it would be great to see those types of comments accompanied by some sort of helpful reply.
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I can agree with that but there are a select few that r like section police. Every thread that's in the wrong section they r there to let them know and that's all they contribute. I find myself reading them say that going douche just answer the question or ignore it. That's just ne though

I like LMGTFY, it gets the point across, but is helpful at the same time. Some folks get offended, but most get the point and say thanks.
edit: not to derail the thread, but a lot of people don't know HOW to search properly. It ain't enough to just plug a bunch of words in the text box and hit the button. A lot of us grew up in the pregooglenet dark ages, when searching wasn't nearly as easy, and have skills that these young whippersnappers do not posess.

tejasrichard said:
yeah, it took me no time at all to hit senior member status, and I don't post nearly as often as some (some of you may have a hard time believing this, but i'm still averaging less than a post a day. I like to think mine are just....memorable ). Though it might add more work, it might be useful to have 3 membership types instead of 2. I mean, I can TOTALLY see needing to be around for a while before you get your senior badge, I don't think it is necessary to make a dude wait till he has 500 posts to put up a link, you know what I mean?
EDIT: w00t! I lied! I just hit avg 1.05 posts per day!
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The fact that your post are memorable rather than "fillers" is a good thing (I wish more people would do that)
We have 3 levels of membership:
Junior member (up to 10 or 30 posts, I cannot remember this one)
Member (up to 100 posts)
Senior member (anything over 100 posts)
I will ask the admin about moving senior and junior levels up, because I honestly think that those are the important ones.

egzthunder1 said:
The fact that your post are memorable rather than "fillers" is a good thing (I wish more people would do that)
We have 3 levels of membership:
Junior member (up to 10 or 30 posts, I cannot remember this one)
Member (up to 100 posts)
Senior member (anything over 100 posts)
I will ask the admin about moving senior and junior levels up, because I honestly think that those are the important ones.
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Well slap me silly! I never noticed the middle designation at all.

Many closed treads

In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.

NEO130 said:
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
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I don't agree, since this forum is very large (2,385,084 members and 404,458 threads). To prevent it from cluttering, but also to keep the forum clean and easy to find the information you need I find it necessary to close and or move threads which are obsolete/duplicate and threads which are clearly opened without searching.
So I am glad we (Xperia subforums) have an active moderator who is keeping a close eye on the subforums.
I find that it does wonders for the clearness of the subforums!

Agreed, when I look for a solution for a problem, I want the [FIX] topic instead of dozens of 'My ... is broken, help meee!'-topics..

NEO130 said:
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
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not many answers yet, what a shame...
ok, I'd like to add my point of view to be considered and commented on
the last months (nearly all of the time I'm a member here) the X1 forums got very little moderating activity, mostly because those moderators assigned to this part either got a new device and "moved" on and/or focused their activity on development/cooking
the little moderating that took place within that time happened when one of the other moderators "visited" here or were personally notified to interact on one behalf or the other
I'm and have been quite active especially on X1, trying to help, now on a somewhat larger scale, so it's small wonder moderating activity increased significantly after my nomination
in contrast to the last months this might appear a lot of interaction from me on behalf of the forum, in my opinion it's now on a reasonable/normal level
I'm doing nothing than abiding by and ensuring the forum rules, which I'm sure everyone here read at least once...
in case you think my actions unjustified, tell me about it
I've seen lots of threads opened on issues raised and successfully answered numerous times already, some even still on the same page as the new one
a lot of my previous posts derive from helping with other members questions whose answer I often had to research myself...which I did...and I then often wondered: when I'm able to find the solution (mostly within minutes) why didn't the one who opened that new thread find it him-/herself? no search? to cursory search? too lazy?...
this all adds up and we are not only talking about X1, it's all over the forum so it's not as limited as (only) talking about server capacity, we are especially talking about misleading search results, cluttered forums, untidiness, confusion, forum losing appeal to users... and all that's related
keeping threads open would/will/did lead to off-topic comments, adding to above mentioned problems
I like a good joke/funny comment as anyone here, but that's usually not dev/app/theme related and normally does not belong there (at least not on a noticeable scale)
if you are interested in that kind of threads/discussions visit forum general discussion and it's subs (like off-topic)
I also think you haven't been in a German kindergarten for some time, they have a good set of rules there, too, for the kids as well as for the grow-ups
so, comments/opinions/feedback pls
Mod edit: not dev related, moved to general

DK you said it all, and I completely agree.
A perfect example is what is happening in the Android development board for the Sony Ericsson X10. Without the mods moving and closing topics, it would become a clutter of useless threads making the good threads lost. Even now there are more threads moved or closed than open
Even your current post does not follow the guidelines as to how the title should look...
tnyynt said:
For questions, use:
[Q]description
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Things are surprisingly simple and straightforward here: pay attention, read, search and search again prior to asking/posting. Nobody wants to do someone else's research. Between the stickies on each board, forum rules, moderator's announcements and extremely helpful mods like DK, there really should be no confusion one
Likewise, any post I have seen made by DK have been polite, respectful and always points the user in the correct direction prior to closing threads.
So thank you to all mods for cleaning up the forums!
Considering this is XDA-Developers (a developer based community) I believe most users should stay silent (since they are not developers) unless it is helpful to the community. I myself personally really do not like sifting through threads asking the same questions that are answered it in the stickies
.

reading instead of asking
hei all!
first: i agree to dk and muo.
why?
why are we here? we use a fine peace of hardware and are unsatisfied with the software of SE and MS and we are more ore less tech geeks.
the original x1 with wm6.1 and panels does anything a phone has to do and much more.
but if you decide that is not enough and flash a custom rom (and to loose your warranty if you dont restore stock spl) is'nt it reasonable to learn sth about what you are doing? at least the different roms, the different ways of flashing.
i'm a "dumb user", i dont know much about cooking and to be honest im to lazy to do this but im so happy about the great work of all the devs here. i tried many roms in GER and WWE, in sense2.1 or 2.5, clean roms and others with lots of apps, i use uc and sashimi and this is my second post. why? because i read the great tutorials and use the search function and i found ALWAYS a solution for my problem.
a question like "i flashed R3AA013. why do i still have wm6.1?" is unnessesary.
to cut it short my opinion is: be willing to learn a little bit about what you are doing or leave your x1 as it is!
cheers!
(and sorry for my poor english...)

The best way to clear up user confusion is to post a link to a wiki at the top of the device forum. Closing threads doesn't answer any questions or make searches easier. It makes them more difficult as before you would have maybe a link to an old thread or some helpful search terms mixed into newbie questions, but instead you have a whole mess of unanswered closed questions and one answer thrown into that haystack.
Btw, "I, myself, personally..."? Are you kidding me? You may as well just say "I and me, and Muo.." if you want to be that ridiculously redundant.

Thx - That`s what I mean with this tread !!

sonus said:
The best way to clear up user confusion is to post a link to a wiki at the top of the device forum.
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It already is, the announcement at the top has multiple links including the wiki...
sonus said:
Closing threads doesn't answer any questions or make searches easier.
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Actually they do, when I see the "closed thread icon" I know to not go in there. Likewise, if there is a "moved thread icon" I know that it has nothing to do with the board I am in. Seems like that answers my questions of reading the thread or not.
Speaking of redundant and ridiculously...
sonus said:
Btw, "I, myself, personally..."? Are you kidding me? You may as well just say "I and me, and Muo.." if you want to be that ridiculously redundant.
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Not really, "I myself personally" is perfectly fine. Yes it is a bit redundant, and I apologize for making you read one extra word. Forget about sentence structure and stop trying to flame, there was no reason for that. Also if you are going to quote me, do it correctly without the commas. How you quoted me is worse than how I presented it in the first place.
.

Suggestions for cleaning up and moderating the Forums

1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
2. More Mods! I think just one or two more mods can help the forums a lot and clean things up.
3. Warnings for people who post questions that have already been answered on the front page of a thread or faq followed by a temp ban if they continue.
I'm really tired of the cycle of
- Dumb question posted
- Followed by "read the damn thread or use the damn search button"
- Followed by "Hey you were a noob once and theres no harm in answering the question you ass along with lengthy answer on the question that will inevitable be asked 10 more times in the near future"
- Continue flame war that now has nothing to do with the thread anymore
You enable people by holding their hands. Don't be an enabler. If you managed to find out how to do all this crap on your own, they can too. At most you should point them to the right thread and let them read up on it on their own so they can further their own education.
4. Don't PM the Devs for requests. They have enough work on their hands and don't need to be flooded. Remember the rule of think before you speak? Try thinking before you PM.
Anyhoo, there was a bunch more, but I'm sure you guys/gals have other ideas.

riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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I don't understand why the "[How To] Return to Stock / Fix Bricked Epic" thread is not sticked.
If someone posts they bricked their phone and needs help you post the link to that thread and lock it.

I like the sentiment of this thread but fear it might be taken the wrong way. Whosdaman is really a wonderful guy and has been very helpful to me but it seems like he is very busy (and who can blame him for dealing with things outside of the interwebs?) so I support this I would also like to issue a blanket "Thank you for your hard work" to Whosdaman.

Seeing as this is a collection of developers I don't see why we don't customize the forum itself.
I don't see any reason we can't flag the development and Q/A threads for every phone. Then, if "is this a question" is set to yes, automatically put it in that phone's Q/A forum. On top of which we could add a "You are posting in the development forum, this is reserved for people developing for [insert phone]. Please check the box below to confirm that you are developing something you wish to share." anytime people posted in the development forum.
Obviously people can still screw it up, if nothing else on purpose, but we can expect people who have never been on the forums to know how the forums are laid out, usually by reading the rules, which never happens, to sort their own, or we can make it as self sorting as possible.

Sounds like whosedaman just needs some support. Perhaps another mod added to help out. We all have to keep in mind that these guys don't get paid for this and real life always trumps forums life. Just my thought on this.
Sent from my Epic while i should be working

I was wondering why there was so much confusion in this forum, as I really liked the forums I used for the month I had a Moment before the Epic dropped. Was there ever a forum on here for the moment??? I couldnt find one, so I checked sdx, which I remember lurking back then and found my answer. Why can't Xda have 'child forums', with descriptions of where and why to post things?? They have a 'market' forum section for ROMs, etc, which we here are using development exclusively. I understand why, but it seems its this way here because of limited tools for organizing, can this sites software not do that? It is completely logical and intuitive to post questions directly regarding development or roms in the development section if you are new... I would have expected a sub-forum for roms only, or at least some direction other than after the fact... usually unless its horribly out of order, whosdaman is pretty polite about it, and given the feelings regarding this device, things get silly in here. Anyways, yes, at least sticky all roms and things 'coolguy' or whatever dont warrant flaming, and then politely notify the new people that questions regarding development actually get booted over to general, where intuitively people would assume GENERAL questions like 'do you like gmail or the stock app better?'.
More mods? Better structure? Who has control over this? Are there any experienced volunteers that can help whosdaman out with his daunting task?
We need to expect more 'joined in Dec 2010' and later members as every idiot with a blog and engadget included seem to think this site and forum are the authority, even over Sprint and Samsung (if XDA says 2.2 is dropping, it must be true, head over there and complain about it). NOTHING against new members, just that there is little direction other than the 'rules' that most people think are just 'dont flame, no kiddie porn... etc...' Dont get all elitist because people couldnt figure out your simple, non-intuitive structure because its their first 5 mins here.
Love this forum, but its like people are baited into getting flamed by assuming this forum runs like most any other... I thought I saw the end of this when I refused to go to another BBC chat... guess not.
If you feel that you must deputize yourself, please, copy the link to the wiki, rules, etc and paste them in misplaced, repeat threads and leave it at that.

since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...

ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!

I'm willing to be a mod here I have experience and would know and how to handle things here...
Admins or mods pm me
sent from my Epic 4G

riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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Did you do a search before posting this? There's already a thread on it, learn how to use the search.
Ok, that was my attempt at humor

ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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I don't think this is fluff at all and whosdaman does deserve to be thanked for his, well, thankless work.
1488 is a race thing. They usually won't tell you what the ideology of it is in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Although I don't agree with the sentiment of the belief structure, I support their right to peacefully observe their beliefs.

Yeah I know that meaning its generally a tattooed target, was just hoping it was just some retarded interweb speak. Sorry to hear. Almost forgot what it was though... not many Boneheads around here, not anymore.
BTW, I respect Lady Gaga's work, although I dont like it, therefore I see no reason to put it in my username.... its ok, you have a right to be a Nazi in this country...

Regrettably, I do read almost every thread in this forum, and forums I maintain...
<--------- Look here, I have 8 forums to maintain full time, but 6 are dead lol
Yeah I do have a life outside this for sure. Not only am I a senior in High School, I am on the Mock Trial team, the Robotics Team, a Sales Representative for Sprint, and a Writer for BriefMobile.com
So yeah I would say I'm busy, but I look over the entire forum as much as I can. Shep211 has been extremely busy in his personal life, that's why I started helping.
It is a thankless job, it's a volunteer job. All free, I don't get paid. The only thanks comes from the owner of the site when I say "if you fix this the site will be better."
Besides all that I can single handedly control this entire forum. I know it sometimes looks cluttered and in a mess, but then again...the Development section is spotless, which is truely the only thing that matters. The General section is meant to be a mess because it's where everyone posts their questions and complaints.
There are applications to become a moderator here on XDA, you have to meet certain requirements to be considered and then be approved. No one of this forum knows my experience as a moderator unless you used GameBattles.com for PS3.
If you want to help me out the most, please please please, use the "Report Post" feature. Every reported post goes straight to my inbox, and I see every single one. Normally RP's get extra attention as they obviously have bothered someone enough to have it reported. 90% of the RP's are either Ghost or Kenvan.
The search feature would do alot of people good, it's nice to tell people to do something, but Report the post/thread and I'll take care of it. You clutter up the forum and threads by posting in threads saying to post in General, just report it. That's all.
Sure, I wish everyone searched because there are at least 5 can't root threads. I would rather merge them all but it too much work to find them. Like I said, let the noobs make their mistake. The members report the post, don't tell them they were wrong. I'll move it, shoot them a PM, and then post in their thread telling them where they should have posted. Then hopefully they will learn.
Thanks again,
WDM

kenvan19 said:
Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
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Sorry, fluff may have been a wrong choice of words, I was implying that as this has been talked about before, and ignored by the powers that be, I saw it was going to end up an off topic post eventually, or at least until the elitist post Nazis (no offense bigjim) came in and said how we are cluttering their precious first page of posts, because as most have trouble with the AMAZING search function, a lot here have a lot of trouble with 'next page', you dont even have to pick which page, it takes you right to the next one!
Sorry, this is just getting really retarded around here, oh and BigJim,apologies, last comment on your beliefs, if off topic, but being an anarcho-punk, its hard not to at least ask if that is REALLY what you are talking about.

hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.

THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!

I certainly appreciate all the hard work Whosdaman has been doing with these forums, but unless he enjoys handling all this, wouldn't an extra mod or two be helpful?
My biggest thing is the FAQ post. Someone asks questions, you can point and say you should have read that first. Like I said before, the Wiki is great, but its a little cluttered and outdated as well as being hard to edit. Having one person willing to just moderate that one thread would be so helpful.
It bugs me when the whole community seems to be represented by the lazy people who just spam post. There are plenty of helpful, polite and very well informed that get lost among the clutter. In fact, they probably outnumber the newbies but don't feel the need to post nonsense. For every idiot that asks a dumb question, there are probably 10 that actually do research and figure it out for themselves.

kenvan19 said:
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
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Nope, I love you and ghost for reporting post. I always look forward to waking up and seeing 10 new PMs lol
ungovernable1977 said:
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
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I have no control over sub-forums. And right now it is only me working on the entire Epic forum. Like I said shep211 is gone atm.
svetius is in charge of the entire site, and I've talked to him about improvements that can be made. I wouldn't bother him too much or he'll just ignore ya. Most of the time the only things he is interested is fixing errors with the site itself. Right now I don't think we are in the area of reorganizing the entire site.

ok, so adding a subforum is not possible? Or is it a decision to make the structure uniform across the whole site? Just thinking, because this forum is like maximum security, different from the rest... or so it would seem...

I'm not so sure making more areas, and thus more chances to be wrong, is a good way to combat posting in the wrong area.
If you have a rom question, ask it in the rom thread. All that would happen if there were subforums for things in development, and discussion of things in development is we'd have 37 threads about how "I just discovered ___ doesn't work in [rom]" instead of 50 posts about it in the rom thread.
(Not to mention you'd then be blurring the line of when it is or isn't ok to post in the DEV forum, where as now, if the person bothers to read, there's a pretty clear cut "If you aren't about to post about the thing you just developed, GTFO" rule.)

XDA Needs To Be Friendlier

Originally Posted by dude64
I love xda as it is such a great resource and adds and improves upon the functionality the devices for so many users. Thanks to all the people who put in hard work. But, I hate the attitude of the senior members and the more seasoned users towards those of us who are relatively inexperienced. I requested to point me to the relative thread/forum. What do you mean by topic list? Under general or development or this thread itself? Thanks.
I have been on this forum for quit a while and as a SENIOR I also do not like the attitude of some of the people. Not all of us give noobs a hard time. I do think pointing a person in the right direction is OK and also letting them know that reading is fundimental is OK, but I see some members going around and doing nothing but telling people how many times this has already been answered and if they would only take 5 seconds to read. You are correct, some people do need to read some before chiming in, but there is no reason to be an ASS. This is a great resource, but people will shy away if members continue to act this way. This forum was created to help out the users of new devices and a place to develop the hardware and make it better for all, so lets get back to that!

XDA also has rules, here's the very first one.
Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
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FloatingFatMan said:
XDA also has rules, here's the very first one.
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I know the rules. I see no problem with you pointing out the rules, but to go trolling the threads and just telling the new guys that this has been already answered does no one any good. You can use a little more tact and still be helpful. Isn't that the main reason for this forum?

dalepl said:
I know the rules. I see no problem with you pointing out the rules, but to go trolling the threads and just telling the new guys that this has been already answered does no one any good. You can use a little more tact and still be helpful. Isn't that the main reason for this forum?
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I do, but after a dozen repetitions of the same question, it DOES become time to tell people to search for themselves.
When I first came here, that's EXACTLY what I did. I took my time, I read the reads, I used search. I didn't ask a SINGLE question until I was sure the answer wasn't already there, and in doing so I learned.
Helping people is fine; changing their diapers for them, isn't.

FloatingFatMan said:
I do, but after a dozen repetitions of the same question, it DOES become time to tell people to search for themselves.
When I first came here, that's EXACTLY what I did. I took my time, I read the reads, I used search. I didn't ask a SINGLE question until I was sure the answer wasn't already there, and in doing so I learned.
Helping people is fine; changing their diapers for them, isn't.
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I do totally agree with you. I am just saying right now, you are coming accross as hostile. Try backing off. I see no problem with telling a noob to search and read first before asking a question, but I see no reason to tell them how dumb they are being on the first question. Now, if they continue, all bets are off. You can do as you want with them.
I really like this site and feel it is a great resource for people. Especially since you can not expect this from the companies, but I really do not want people to not ask a question in fear of getting beratted by someone because they did not read. Point out thier mistake and with any hope, they will comply.

As a fairly new member, but a fairly active one, I gotta say that sometimes the attitude on here reminds me of my local Staples...which is to say pretty ****ty. I know that its a pain to have to answer the same question over and over again, but you can't fault someone for not knowing. Realizing that sometimes you just want to grab someone and shake them, while screaming "just use the damn search feature!" but even so, a little more temperance and a little less condescension would be a good thing.

agree with op
I think thisnis exactly correct.I notice its not always the same person over and over asking things discusses or solved.I have also noticed that the majority of the repeated questions come from those who are not. Great with English.
The truth is its easier to yell and degrade someone then politely just ask them to search.I also believe the post telling someone they are a moron or other not so nice things are more against the rules here then the unnecessary post and adds to the drama.if you don't like it you dont have to answer.
It all comes down to respect everyone deserves it.even the lame people like myself as I have been called on here
I go back to my corner and shup as I should have not posted here to begin with

dalepl said:
.... but I really do not want people to not ask a question in fear of getting beratted by someone because they did not read.
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This is the internet. No matter how nasty you are or how nice you are, the same questions will be asked time and time again. There's nothing anyone can do about it.
It doesn't matter if someone reads the rules or not, it doesn't matter if someone searched or not - if they have a question they'll ask it - regardless.
You can have the answer in bright, bold, flashing letters on the main page and the question will still be asked. See it isn't about whether the answer is available or not, its that every person who asks does so with their own rationale and the belief that 'their question isn't exactly the same' and the answer they want isn't one they've found (even if its the impossible answer).
It's up to the individual whether they answer them, (positively or negatively isn't the point) or walk away.
So what, if some people choose to chew out other people. If that's how they want to interact with the community then so be it. The community will decide if that is acceptable or not and, in time, they'll either stop, or leave because they're frustrated with the none-Utopian forum they thought they could control.

dalepl said:
Originally Posted by dude64
I love xda as it is such a great resource and adds and improves upon the functionality the devices for so many users. Thanks to all the people who put in hard work. But, I hate the attitude of the senior members and the more seasoned users towards those of us who are relatively inexperienced. I requested to point me to the relative thread/forum. What do you mean by topic list? Under general or development or this thread itself? Thanks.
I have been on this forum for quit a while and as a SENIOR I also do not like the attitude of some of the people. Not all of us give noobs a hard time. I do think pointing a person in the right direction is OK and also letting them know that reading is fundimental is OK, but I see some members going around and doing nothing but telling people how many times this has already been answered and if they would only take 5 seconds to read. You are correct, some people do need to read some before chiming in, but there is no reason to be an ASS. This is a great resource, but people will shy away if members continue to act this way. This forum was created to help out the users of new devices and a place to develop the hardware and make it better for all, so lets get back to that!
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+1
Some people are irrationally and intentionally harsh and seem to exist solely to deride others consistently. I too think pointing people in the right direction is a good thing to do, but that's under the assumption that they genuinely didn't know to use the search. Some even mention using the search and still get less than stellar remarks as a response. It's of my opinion that if it's not constructive somehow, don't bother responding. Let someone with a bit more patience either answer or point them to the right place.

I agree with the OP as far as members of the forum go. The forum itself is actually very nice in that it will pop up a list of possible solutions based on your subject line. Whether or not new people or even older members use it is another matter.

it isn't something you can blame on XDA. i have been on the forums for years and while it does happen in every device subforum, The acer iconia section is just bad. I went from HTC tilt to touch HD to 2 X touch HD2 then an inspire and never saw the nastiness to the extent the acer forum has.
People just need to realize questions will always be asked even if the answer is in the post above the question. Instead of adding to the thread length with the go reads or quit being a noob or the has been answered x times, just don't reply to them unless you are willing to help. This way threads are shorter and if you do search you are more likely to find the answer then finding people *****ing about said question.
I think people just need to calm down and quit trying to be moderators, unless of course you are one. I help when i can and have been helped by many people on here. Without help these noobs will always be noobs. With some help they may become the next developer that the community pushes away with the over anxious "when's my next update coming"

I totally agree that people need to just calm down before responding. Answering the question, and TOTALLY reading the question, is far more helpful than responding to just do a search.
P.S. searching on here is VERY vague. The search at the top should default to the forum you are in, not the whole of XDA.

There's a lot of tears flowing here.

People will always be people...
agreed with the OP...
Im a long time member with very few posts, love the forums but prefer to stay away from the people.

wow
The internet tears are flowing...
Asked quite a few stupid questions when I was new, the responses from senior members taught me to solve my problems for myself and not create new threads when my issue had already been solved.
If you cannot handle a little bit of sarcasm when annoying thousands of members with questions that are already clearly answered, perhaps xda is not the place for you.
As for me, I am running CWM and the latest 3.1 thanks to the efforts of this community. I have learned more about Android and have refreshed some basic Linux knowledge, and have converted my cheapo Virgin Mobile Samsung Intercept into a reliable hotspot for my Acer a500.
Instead of getting upset and creating a new thread about how mean everyone is here; perhaps you should take a step back, emotionally distance yourself, learn how to use advanced search (pro tip: you *can* search just for threads about one device, learn to use advanced search) - and realize with the tools the community has provided for you here you are able to do pretty much anything you want with your Acer a500?
Or you can continue down the path of accusing everyone here of being rude. If you have any specific questions about the a500 - I am willing to help, as are many others.
Don't expect anyone to jump to the response if your question had already been answered, however. This community relies on your ability to learn how to use the search function.

I feel like sometimes the
"use search" is an answer to people who doesn't know as well...
A reply as
Use search , you will find : link to post related to
should be a better answer, at least if you waste your time to reply "use search" why not waste time in a complete reply...
It's true that is boring to see same topic, and have to give same reply (but in every weboard a MERGE function exist... moderator and administrator could if they got time of course, merge topics together... don't miss understand me, I do not say moderator and admin do not do good job)
Sometimes also a noob doesn't know how to search properly as well... IT'S A NOOB!
some are lazy, some are not.

I have been on this site for roughly 3 years and I do have to say there has been some increased crankiness. I also would say the amount of members and people with smart phones has increased substantially since then.
Would be cool if you could flag a duplicate topic for review by moderator so they can be easier to identify and merged appropriately

Well I have to say a little something on this.
I noticed the attitude on this forum and I tend to just read and learn.I type very little as I don't really want to draw attention to myself like now.
I am in the computer repair business and have seen this same attitude with customers from my peers.
And although I want to tell some people to leave me alone when they call I still keep civil with them. But I do appreciate all the learning I have gleaned on this forum.

Ya Cant Change Society
+1 to use the search.
However If I do reply to someone who is asking a question which has been answered time and time again.. I will post the search results that relate to the persons Question.
Not searching is probably my #1 Forum Pet peeve. People complain Ohh well there's like a 1000 Different posts on XYZ topic.. Well their wouldn't be if someone would of searched the first time rather than clogging the search pipes with another post of the same question that has been answered several times.
However Times are changing.. Generations are getting Lazier ... And still lots of people are unfamiliar with Forum etiquette.. Or are just wanting a instant answer now.. Not much any one person can do about any of that.
So if you feel sarcasm... Dont like how someone responds.. are not happy with the site / People .. I say to you... Move on... off to google.com with you to search out several other sites similar to this one to get your golden answer. Its the Internet you have the freedom to go elsewhere. but I'll tell you this your never gonna find a "tech" forum where the attitudes are much different.
Although I will admit there are issues here at XDA, they are working on them.. You cant change how people act around here.. Just as the new folks coming in will never use the search or read the rules.. BTW "technically" this entire thread is breaking the rules.. The thread is entirely in the wrong forum. And I hope the Moderator will see this and move it to its appropriate area.
just my 2 cents on it all.. its probably not even worth that.
"You Cant Change society as a whole, but Society can change an individual"

Ill say that one thing people need to take into account is that alot of members don't speak English as their first language. So they might not even know how to correctly search for an answer with the right words, per se.
The rules do say "use English", lol.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

Where are the moderators for this forum?

Alot of good information can be found in this forum - if you dig deep enough and have huge amount of time to spend on it. Because most of the posts are just crap. People saying "Yes, dito that. Will install tomorrow" or, nonsense as "thanks, appreciate that".
For Christ sake. Posts with private messages should not be public. That's why we have a private message function in most forums. Who's in charge in this forum? Keep all private information as private messages, and keep it OFF the forum. People who needs some important info on something involving mobile devices have to browse for hours before finding it - and it's mostly due to all nonsense crap within.
Normally, moderators do their job and clean up the forums from crap, but not here however. I don't know why though. Maybe there are no moderators in here
Believe me, no one really cares if some special person "will install it later" or whatever. IF the masses would care - a poll would is posted. In that case, all opinions are wanted and collected in a thread. That's OK since answers are wanted then. But if someone just wants to say "thanks" - please keep it as a private message, please please, so that all the poor readers don't have to browse through all the sh*t when looking to find some important info.
If there are moderators here - why aren't they doing their job?
If there ain't no moderators - please get some. I think this forum needs 10 or more, but then it could increase in quality tenfold or more.
Clean this up for Christ sake. Delete the nonsense. Increase quality. Make it worthy a visit, or even better, a search.

TBH, the search page is kinda useless as it's missing information on how to properly search the forums. in standard way, if you enter more than one word as search query, it will list all the forum entries where at least one word was found - utterly useless in most cases... making the search page easier for new users would probably help alot to get rid of double posts.

I think you partly make a valid point, but you just sound bitter and your poll is VERY biased. Why could it not just say "Yes" and "No"?
For that reason, I'm out of here and not taking part.

You know, I wanted to say the same thing for a long time. I'm also sad how low moderation we have here on SGS2 forums, it really makes me not want to take part of discussion. Like for example the arguing about forum manners in 2.3.4 leak root being available topic, it really should not be tolerated
I guess the main reason is simply lack of moderator staff - but I feel that sometimes none of the moderators even takes a look in general section for a whole day.
I'm not sure about their area of responsibility, but there are mods in our dev section...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App

The moderators on xda are not paid, so I for one don't expect them to sit at a computer all day and read every single post in every thread in every forum. There's a button on every single post for reporting inappropriate behaviour, so we, as the community, have a responsibility to let them know when something's wrong.
I've reported all sorts of things including spam, rascism, foul language, warez links and just general rude behaviour. Every single time I've done that, without fail, it has been dealt with in the best way possible.
I think you underestimate how much goes on in these forums, and the SGS2 forum is quiet compared to some of the others!
I think the mods deserve our thanks, not our disdain. If you want a better community then you do something about it.

I think this forum is normal. It has all the typical groups of posters. Undoubtedly, the newest most awesomest smartphone is gonna attract a ton of people and it will be almost impossible to stop all their threads and posts. I think the other members do a good job modertating the serious transgressions.
I would have liked to come here and instantly found the answers to all my questions, but I realize this is a complicated subject matter and the answers I seek might not even exist. There aren't definitive answers to a lot of questions. A lot is unknown or opinion based. And if there is an answer, there are usually multiple answers.
Personally, I don't mind the dynamic that leads to multiple threads on the same subject within the same hour. You can't stop the noob onslaught. Come back after it's not cool to be here and you'll find a completely different forum.
By the way, what were you searching for?

You can apply to be a moderator if you wish to .. Nice to start your first post of with a Bang
The way I see with the amount of posting that goes in XDA with thousands of members and hundreds of post it really will be hard to moderate, especially as SGS2 is the hottest selling phone right now and lot of activity going around it.
The search function is good but still sometimes its hard to find specific answers and then its much more easier just to create a post.
Unless of course If there is a wiki or something with all things related to the SGS2

johncmolyneux said:
the SGS2 forum is quiet compared to some of the others!
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tfn said:
You can apply to be a moderator if you wish to .. Nice to start your first post of with a Bang
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Seriously? With 1 post and 0 thanks that means you've contributed nothing. And you first post is a ***** that its too hard for you to find things. A bit selfish, no? Forums aren't designed to be your personal wiki. Something tells me you're not going to make a lot of friends here.