This is an interesting subject to me as the company I work for is acutally in the business of providing a service just as being discussed.
I'm not going to turn this into an advert, but let me give you a quick overview of our service. We run a fully mananged network which connects to a customers office network and to the 4 major MNO's in the UK (plus a few outside the UK, and were expanding). We have at least two private AP's on each MNO plus terminals can connect via a VPN over the internet. We support a number of terminals (mainly from HTC from the Wallaby to the Prophet, but also some from Panasonic, Symbol and Intermec) that connect VIA GPRS but also through GSM DUN as a fallback.
I've worked on the terminal side for about 7 years, I've been involved in development of most areas of the code at one time or another, but for a long time I was responsible for the module that is responsible for connecting to and maintaining the connection to either the MNO network (our AP's or the Public AP) or our own network (via GSM).
The one thing I've learned while doing this is that you can't rely on the MNO for anything. We've had MNO's disconnect us from AP's without warning, we've had IP connections stop passing data again without warning, we've had AP's reject a connection when out auth server told the AP to accept it.
This being true, if your claiming your software is reliable and expecting someone to bet their business on using it, you'd better make sure that it can handle all these issue. Theres nothing worse than trying to explain to a customer why his message didn't go through when both the back-end office and mobile device claim their connected.
And one last thing, and its a big one, Cost. Its easy to make a system that costs so much to run that its economically unviable. Remember every GPRS byte or GSM second costs money, so polling for messages every few seconds may not be a great idea.
Hurm....
This was supposed to be a reply to this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=43426
I have no idea how it got into its own thread...
Appologies.
That is exactly my point of veiw. Why have to be constantly connected? Its a dirty solution. The only ones who benifit from a middle man are the service providers. Thats why I have put all my effort into using what is reliable. A normal phone call.
I have spent the last 9 months creating something that can reliably transfer data over calls. When I say reliable I mean when data is sent the user will get a confirmation for each packet sent an can be 100% certain it arrived intact when with the confirmation.
Depending on the phone plan it can be cheaper than other means of communication like gprs and mms on phones. When there is no flag fall I can transfer the same data as an mms (on my account anyway) for about half the cost. In free times transmition can be free. What makes the technology usefull is the price. In Australia all forms of data transfer are VERY high, but that is not the case in other countries.
You miss my point somewhat. I don't know about Australia but here in the UK your not actually charged for having a GPRS connection up and running just for the data you transfer over it and so our GPRS connections are up all the time assuming you have coverage. Its how you manage the connection (detecting the IP layer stopping working for example) and the data that flows over it thats important.
When it comes to GSM though your right, there is no way you want to have a permanent connection up, it has to be on-demand based. That in itself leads to problems, the main being that you have to handle charging your customer for the data calls you make to the terminal. Or if you don't connect to the terminal, and it only connects to you, how does the terminal know when messages are waiting.
For us, GSM us a last-ditch solution when GPRS isn't available. However in the UK we've generally found that if you can make a GSM call you can connect to GPRS, and if GPRS is down for some reason, the whole cell is generally not available (so GSM doesn't work either). There are occasions where a hardware failure on a MNO (not at the cell but in the rest of the network) may cause GPRS to stop working but allow GSM to work but situations like that are rare and generally quickly rectified by the MNO.
Let me start be saying would to thank this forum for existing but some **** is just stupid.
Schapps has been the closest to making VOIP work and stay up
I believe the code just released the client just released is open I don’t believe he's done yet
I can make the broken client work but that’s easy if you take the client set up screen and place it in front you next to the installation directions of a third party vendor(I am assuming my friend Mr Bullin know s what hat means)
On a thread below I left few parts out, due to the fact that their is a US based company offering free software that they copyrighted. I don’t understand how one can assume the power of free open sourced client.
Here’s my answer on only gates would close a forum he would pay then lie.
Copyrighting a client that I believe I said works. Ok tell me how genius how dopes it work I am confused what makes it work what are the main factors should not be hard to find
Current Released Version 2.0.1 feedback
can not hear does not work well and say reg on when off very confusing explain
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=299950&page=76
part 2
I did how ever fix or should I just used it as a starting point to connect.
The first 6 ROM I used was from Mfrazz very nice rom
XDA Mobile 6
It had the sip protocol tool that is now copyright worthy
I would be lying if I said it was not a ****y tool, but very simple.
So it was easy to cross reference the fields when I held it up next to a soft phone that’s is licensed ( another piece of paper that has the year and a federal stamp on it)
So the whole point is no one has actually presented a client that works like a normal piece of software and is plug_and_play per say.
Out of respect for his ability and determination I have been watching the intense process that schapps has put in and I’m sure he has a full blown solution behind it.
Now here is for the jerk offs you know guys who are quick to open that mouth. Not that my typing doesn’t piss you off apologize, but for the real idiots the talented the individuals that make one move and they know everything.
VOIP is fun the idea of free telecom fills a hacks cup and a businessman cup.
But the term it is not your friend means that there are so many variables in a conection that from a programmers stand point the equation seems to drive them deep down the rabbit whole.
Well never read manual but I do know one thing it wouldn’t be put on the front of the TODAY screen if it was rocket sience.
The fact is it its quite simple all the phone needs is an IP address then it can be a voip phone.
Well last I checked one big telco company called cellular one and another company called Panasonic teamed up with this other company Motorola and Nextel( a phone company) as we know it was formed. Well Nextel is based off of Static IP’s the concept is not new.
I was up all night working on my client and now its done here
Mind v.l1
http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm51424.htm?
Please by al means do what you do best and somebody and bring that client back to the board cause I probably will not be attending anymore of the open board sessions. Its bad enough to type but to have to here a *****es opinion about me and not flex is not easy.
part 3
I was taught one thing don't ever have an ego and be able to do it your self. That’s I got nothing crazy to say to any the confused individuals that seem to have a very passionate deep opinions.
Being able to make things is talent and 1000 revolutionary features on a state of the art phone system that no will ever use, because the beautiful minds that made it decided they would use their ideas for the end user environment is worthless.
100% of a broken client is worthless.
Helmi said something very important, taking credit for another mans work is weak, I fell the same way just like certain countries are weak.
Gates never shows his face i understand i wouldn’t either.
Logic is cool but until you make million clean or can answer this question how much cash can you fit in a standard carry on briefcase? Don’t be so quick to fire that virgin mouth cause in the real world guess they don’t give **** so appreciate my feed back I can tolerate personality
voip
What the client on the phone is for the INTRANET
( Again this the network ( a group of computers connected to work as one) inside of a infrastructure and behind a router fire wall t1) MR BULLIN
I was saying that I was surprised that it was not pre exposed but then I remember the fact that it always misfires and a telecoms nightmare cause no body physically put it into play.
(referring to a live call center with 30-100 tsr’s on the phone generating $15-$30k a day)
Can you imagine the importance of redundancy and the fact that big companies can’t afford to ever be down. So voip came and went some companies got desperate and are still trying to push a switches and charge $40k. The main Problem is support companies want the easy way out that’s why we are here.
Why doesn’t the iphone doesn’t have voip, but yet mac’s client is one of the best on the market. Cause jobs will not release anything half which means No body could see voip is very efficient very easy to use and the best way to go if you are building some thing from scratch. JUst like Americas cellular data service is free
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=288844
We all have bring something to the table and just cause I cant type doesn’t mean that I cant kick a door down or 20 but this not my forum as matter fact I keep getting demoted. But I can’t complain cause its still my home and I there is one thing about the mind. If you want an answer ask. When I see some one make a wrong move I never knock it he tried or he is trying that makes 3% which is what controls the worlds wealth.
But having a “I am the **** website poll” and a fan club now that’s cute.
If you want to talk data networking and voip or how to disassemble a mda in less then 15 minutes. I am available and over qualified.
I fear if I speak anymore I might start say bullin and the moderator will demote me to a symbol like prince.
When in doubt and all else fails just look at it and the answer is usually right in front of you.
If I don’t get back to another special request it is due to the fact that I have quite a few employees to worry about.
XDA ROCKS and your better go hands than going mind trust me you want none.
I can translate aboutthemind:
He's stating that the WM6 VoIP client is full of bugs but the allure of "free" calling over VoIP has appeal to both hackers and businesses alike so we keep banging away at it. So far, he feels that Schaps is the closest to having a "functioning" native WM6 client (mine works better IMHO ).
He also stated that M$ "supposedly" released this but the WM6 platform has seen no "official" Internet calling application since none of the Operators have decided to pick up on it (due to apparent revenue issues). m$ (Gates) has been silent on the availability since the initial betas. So his point is this:
Is Internet calling even a release level feature of the WM6 ROM? Perhaps not. Perhaps we should instead be devoting our energies to other more proven technologies and building them in to our ROMs.
aboutthemind is far from an idiot; he merely communicates differently.
edit (I have to read posts many times to extract all intellectual content):
abouthtemind also states that the Internet calling app was designed for INTRANET only and believes its IP address/NAT related that causes the issues we experience trying to use it over 3G.
I personally disagree with this because my TyTN works fine with my asterisk server over 3G. What's different about my connection? Very high speed (Business class RoadRunner) server access along with very high speed phone access (AT&T pda connect plan). I use DHCP at my 3G connection and my asterisk server is configured for NAT at both ends. Using G.711, I experience millisecond drops (audio is occasionally choppy) but have both-way audio. I'm also not getting ring-back (can't hear ringing tone on my TyTN while the remote end is ringing) but I believe this is an asterisk configuration problem.
I therefore believe Internet Calling audio issues are codec related and that the one way issue is caused by congestion at our phone's virtual network card. G.711 is all that is support out of the box and, as such, does no compression. This is one of the reasons why INTRANET connections work: more bandwidth at the phone. G.729 is held out as the "holy grail" solution here, but my research indicates that current phone processors my not have enough power to use G.729. I could be wrong here in that a native processor version could exist, but I'm concentrating on GSM610 instead because there is a good compression ratio, and the codec is already optimized for the ARM V4I instruction set (which itself is pseudo-code of course).
@aboutthemind: I remain committed to solving the codec issue for the reasons above. I too want to produce an out-of-the-box solution & will release a new ROM with my fixes if I do. I say "if" not "when" because understanding codec code itself is rocket science... in the examples they actually invoke assembler to do some math processes because the C compiler optimizations aren't quite fast enough . Besides this, I'm not fully convinced that the WM6 RTC layer is fully ACM codec compliant. There may be an issue at compress/decompress time which only works with G.711 because G.711 does no compression.
Finally, why spend all this energy on WM6 Internet Calling instead of simply cooking in a more proven solution? Here:
Solution must have tight phone integration: press the green button and call or receive call
Solution must have tight contact integration
Solution must use phone earpiece not speaker and have good volume
Solution must transfer over bluetooth to car handsfree
Right now, Internet Calling, while not there for sure, actually comes closest and therefore holds the promise of working with all of the above. I believe that fixing the codec will solve points one and two. Hardware itself causes issue 3 and may only be solvable by changing phone hardware. IMO, a quick tweak should solve issue 4 and I will start working on that when I get a reliable GSM610 codec working.
Hi Sleuth,
I have to admit that I never had enough patients to read posts of aboutthemind.
However I agree with most of conclusions you have drown here. Both from aboutthemind posts and your own.
1. Idea to have VoIP client inbuilt and closely integrated with the device system is very appreciated.
2. The client, however should work with the system as you have described. It means that it should actually take over the control of the system and use the peripherals of the device together with the native phone application.
It would be great if we could make the RTC client work properly, but I am afraid, it is very difficult if possible at this stage of the RTC development.
That is way maybe starting a new project could be better solution.
This was about generals, now to back to RTC.
I am not exactly sure if the g711 codec is not capable to work properly both in WiFi and 3G/HSDPA environment. Also I believe, G729 implementation in our mobiles can be done.
I am plaing with VoIP for long time already. Talking about mobile devices, I used to have old HP with PCMCIA WiFi card installed and SJPhone working on it. It was pretty good solution for that time. Later I used Asus PDA with WiFi on board, but without phone option. I used there SJPhone and X-Pro from Counterpath. The last one was commercial product with g729 implemented. And it worked. The processor was Intel 520 MHz. This shows that it could be done. Unfortunately Counterpath has withdrawn this product from the market.
Ok. These were early implementation. There was no integration with the system, it was aimed to PPC with WiFi only and so on.
Now We have WM6 on devices with UMTS/HSDPA on board and I am sure, sooner or later VoIP will be integrated with the system.
At the moment I am usually using Ageet phone, which works perfectly, both on WiFi and 3G, specially with HSDPA. It does not have G729, but it uses GSM, G711, ILBC and Speex, I believe. The only problem with this soft is, that it is not integrated with Phone applet in the WM6. This makes impossible to place calls directly from your contact list. It can import the contact list, but then it does not recognize all does phone number formats, so you need to have them in format, which is accepted by your voip provider. There is also obvious problem with audio redirection to bluetooth headset and receiving a call using green button or headset button.
By the way, I have tested Ageet phone as well as some other commercial phones with many different VoIP providers and environments including my own commercial VoIP network based on PortaOne Switch. All those apps work perfectly with all possible networks.
This can not be said about RTC client. It works with some servers (asterix, FWD in eg.) but does not work with others (PortaOne servers in eg.).
So if we decide to work on RTC, then we should take in mind that there is not only a problem with one way audio in some configurations, but also that this client does not fully complies to SIP protocol and because of that it is cut of from servers like PortaOne, while trying to initiate the call. I have described the problem in my post in your (Shaun's) thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1241766&postcount=561.
On the other hand Age company is also marketing its SDK. It seems to me that this SDK is really very good, both for PC and PPC environment. The footprint of both versions of their applications is very small . You can see it specially in WM6 if you observe how little memory it takes. Unfortunately the SDK is a commercial product, but they can provide it with G729 included. The question is how to deal with such a project if it would be based on this SDK?
This are only my thoughts. If somebody is interested in taking those thoughts further on, I am open for cooperation.
We shouldn't condemn this guy out of hand. I am not sure whether English is his mother tongue/first language. If it is not then he should post up in his own language and then someone can translate.
From the Sleuth's post it seems that aboutthemind is making some very valid points; its just that the way he puts it is not that easy to decipher.
WB
Here's some bad news that confirms aboutthemind's suppositions:
I've been playing with a compilable GSM610 codec which I can insert into my Hermes WM6 RTC stack, and its looking more and more like a buggy rtcdll that's the core issue. The RTC has 3 built-in codecs. Two are known to work: g.711 alaw & ulaw. The other, g.722.1 (also called "Siren"), is a floating point codec which I haven't enabled.
Plugin ACM codecs such as gsm610.acm appear to be correctly supported from a registry standpoint. The RTC uses the "Dll" value to find the correct acm codec, and uses WaveForm parameters to negotiate. These all appear to work as advertised.
However, while my code is getting normal ACM calls and correctly encoding information using the GSM codec, the other end only hears garbled sounds. Likewise, I'm not getting any input to the decode logic and my earpiece is dead.
This could still be a huge pointer translation issue causing the output buffer to be incorrectly addressed but that is looking more and more unlikely.
It would appear that RTC 1.5.5374 isn't fully ready for prime time from a plugin codec perspective. I'm now looking more closely at rtcdll.dll....
ITMT, g.711 alaw appears to work best over 3G. If you are using asterisk or TrixBox, you can limit your mobile extension's codec negotiation to only use alaw as follows:
disallow=all
allow=alaw
Gentlemen, Mr Slueth, time to handle this voip issue
I do apologize i had have 2 major prodjects in play so considering voip is the most efficient and logical solution i am say live. I built 3 platforms with a russain and Ukraine programmers that why a patiently waited until we could get past the feminism not to disrespect anybody i can only trouble or comment if i too have experienced the same issues threw out my life.
But i am bit off a tough guy and i was raised to not say a fcking thing in a multiple lister environment unless you took into consideration recourse and ones interpretation. Translation don't talk and don't ever disrespect nobody or you would catch a beating.
Well times have changed and now doing time is like a course offered in college so you can not even smoke on earth anymore!
I must say the first time i spoke was to protect the integrity of an individual inhere from a ungrateful member. Moist important i was able to use his solution to secure my ability to resurrect any type of wizard. So i thanked him but i was more bothered by the disrespect for ones efforts by another.
Can you believe THE MUTHAFRkr actually turned on me, i couldn't understand.. I get plenty of thanks in the real world via the new times, let alone from here daily and tell u truth i have never gone public. I have given quite a few Domestic companies a whole new way to think an they actually took some **** i had for me.
Its not my looks or my level of intelligence's that gets you the label one of the best in the game today.
For me it is me, meaning i only do things one way with no ego. I beciome the end user and think like they do. That means that i have to assume that i have been misunderstood when some insults me and take full responsibility for both parties. Move on. But being that i am a communication specialist and most important a fix my company specialist. I was ia bit confused my self until i realized where this forom is out of and the fact that i never looked at all the flags that people throw so now i get.
Just like free data doesn't appeal to most of the moderators and senior members why would it like this it doesn't apply.
So don't expect to much from people that are abroad simply because its old news or doesn't excite them.
Only work people that have respect i don't need to suit here and chicken peck the keys. My language is free spoken cause im at home so the least i can do is swear. I am a bit of a phycological warrior with a few gifts. But try to mind **** over the computer after this run was proven and deemed a failure.
If i needed validation i would not be in a studio loft and drive a rental. YOu are only as good as your teachers. And the best of the best dont wear it on their chest.
But lets face it i to am in the lab on a whole other level.
I bang this out with guys if you want.
And MR sleuth with much respect to you sir. The ability to see probably not the first time being i only guess what the vendors and clients look like. My coments to schapps was for the visuals and hinted not drop code its as bad as my typing to a non programmer and a turn off. I am a true fan and have true passion let alone credential in voip. Again not into knocking some determination or work that would be my ultimate mistake if ever making any in life.
So with that i need some answers so i can go get you what you need if you see my previous posts i threw up a flag so i could solve this but i have read all the posts so and again have not wanted to disrupt the determination but saw it was gonna drive down a very long hard maybe a little road.
1 why do you need to use the gprs client on an acm environment.
2. Can we nail one type down?
We only need one to work then the idea would be to expose the path
it then be a true team effort from the various camps here and all over
3.Do you see what i see in the us regarding the fact that hot spots are also gprs and the idea is a free cell phone that is free cause of this effort not cause its the internet.
I don't know about you but i would never want to speak over the internet abut anything none business related meaning my day to day.
5. Nothing is secure fear is the best security system one can have
Finish our discussion on sip Please do mot use the vendors names i have a major personal issue with people selling free open source software and have other people produce clients for free. The whole thing keeps out of that environment. Just personal thing
But i threw together 2 asterisk systems they shuttles and i will join you i you bring me to speed meaning the clients to test or the ability.
I also had a Hermes delivered today for this fix, the phone is in 4 pieces and looks like a standard owner had buyers remorse and after he bricked it he killed it but looks like this Hermes is going to live by tomorrow.
I am a visual type of person so for instance sip was seek and destroy that was the pitch.
Voip was {Phone--------Switch(homeofiice firewallsrouters,NAT)---- -----------------------(Switch)home/offiicefirewallsrouters,NAT)---phone
SIP was assuming you did not have any thing but home configured. It was suposed to find its way home in business pitch.
I understand networking and the concepts but dont dig in with logic.
I was thinking more if i understand why you need multiple codecs and why we cant just split open the t mobile client which by the way is from blue tooth sig. A bluetoothe company with all the stk's from every vendor available. that is going broadband for those who don't know and yes you can surf the net on blue tooth.
This what i bring way out side box and i think we can do this faster if i can implement the way come up with this stuff.
the sdk is a valid concern so i would be more than happy to split apart any piece that causes a mental block my boy z in the Ukraine still are waiting for the yahoo and google checks. I will also pardon anyone who has remorse.
Most important is the connections and the resources to use for all my in house work is the usually the mother ship and she doesn't speak English and has no copy right.
I am player in this but i don't program so you will be amused by the remedial questions and nuclear answers.
But lets do this fast with no ego and i was not implying anything directly to your present work or anyone above this specific page. If you weren't all genius i would be any way. And my goal is to let that even t-mobile is not my carrier they let me see a way out and all the holes in service so this is not about the codes it about stepping back finding the manufacture that makes the phone pulling the client customizing and then giving it up for free to those that are willing to give up the sunlight for the red eyes and constant domestic issues.
I have some things that you might be able to use li really dont know cause i good but even i stopped following when you flipped ways in one session. I'm sure once you fill me in i will pick it up instantly. Hardware and risk of destruction, well that would be my pleasure.
PS i did not proof read this so ii hope it has impact
Agreed. The built in G.711 codec works well over WiFi. I'm having no issues other than battery life related which can't be solved easily... The WM6 RTC isn't really designed to run over 3G anyway. My AdapterTypes registry hack was what made it do this and that flushed out a few "undocumented features" for sure. Case in point: it doesn't detect changes in GPRS/3G availability such as when you USB connect to ActiveSync. So you have to physically stop Internet calling by choosing "never" in the Internet tab of the Phone Settings dialog, then restart it by choosing "Whenever Available" to make it connect again. It also doesn't automatically start the data connection if it is off and will instead again say "Not Available" until you manually start the data connection then perform the above stop/start routine.
This being said, having a GSM610 codec functioning would lower the bandwidth requirements considerably. I have a few more tests to make today with this codec; it may be that the algorithm itself isn't properly spec'ed to GSM610. Some quick tests will determine this. I'm a developer and I want to understand this you see
At any rate, I'd like to get my hands on a newer version of rtcdll.dll than the one that's in my Hermes ROM.
edit:
First test completed: I disabled the final encoded buffer transfer to the RTC. The rationale here being that if the same garbled sound was heard then the Wm6 RTC itself was the culprit. Instead, I heard what would be expected if the RTC was truly acting on the encoded buffer: silence. Now I have to dig more into the codec itself. The sample GSM code does a double frame encoding (each input PCM buffer is treated as two GSM610 encoded frames). I'm not sure if the WM RTC is prepared for this or not..... Heck, there may even be a transport layer issue causing the garbled sound. More research is required.
Anybody interested in playing along can do so with their own asterisk server. There's actually a Virtual appliance containing Trixbox, FreePBX and other goodies that make startup a snap. Just load the free VMWare player, point it to the fully configured virtual machine and you're up and running.
A link to this free appliance along with the vmware player itself can be found here.
The 3CX softphone that can receive direct ip calls (dial it's address using the form nn*nn*nn*nn on your Internet calling equipped HTC phone when both devices are WiFi connected to the same network) can be found here
I'm playing with my Asterisk server... But fun ends pretty fast when you realise you can't really go anywhere. I'm no genius to come out with a hack which recompiles a TRUE softphone into a dll which wraps the MS one and bypasses the ridiculous limitation of the earpiece vs speaker problem and then goes to Mars etc, etc... So I learned that I might just get another phone if I really want to enjoy VOIP on my mobile. I like my S710, would have been one of the best mobiles to enjoy VOIP (I think) but:
1) No, no, smartphones can't have the VOIP stack
2) You can try to hack it in but earpiece is only available to "modem"
3) etc.
I'm a bit disappointed must say.
Ka.
It is possible to redirect audio from multimedia speaker to earpiece for any HTC phone with Syren audio chip.
namely:
HTC Tornado
HTC Excalibur
HTC Vox
HTC StarTrek
.......
Also, we have positive resultes with many HTC Pocket PC Phones. namely:
HTC Hermes
HTC Trinity
.......
I do not understand why HTC has disabled audio redirection. HTC audio driver is capable of audio redirection from multimedia speaker to earpiece for any multimedia stream..
Sorry, I wouldn't be able to tell more regarding this issue. But the bottom line is: IT CAN BE DONE.
I guess, HTC decided to leave this option out for reason or...
kast said:
......
2) You can try to hack it in but earpiece is only available to "modem"
......
Ka.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By reading forums around I learned that on some phones it could be possible.
I'm not sayint it's a hardware issue (as I got no clue about hardware), on the other hand we're limited by the drivers they provide us, limited by the API we can use.
I read somewhere that it might be possible to redirect an audio stream to the earpiece when the "phone part" is actually being used. Even if it is a modem connection.
Meaning we might have the phone to instanciate a "fake call" and then redirect the audio stream to the earpiece. Meaning that... Yes, true, audio streams could be redirected to the earpiece but not very easily.
Now, faking a call or anything like this is not really something I can code in two seconds and try. Don't even know if it could be possible. So, I still hope in the one, as I said in a post above, genius to hack a DLL, put some sticky tape around, couple of API calls he's the only one to know of and send a Shuttle to Mars. I know there are many of these in this forum, luckily.
Ka.
Some interesting ACM plugin codec developments:
I now have the exact same garbled audio in both directions . However the reason it now works at all is a fundamental clue that I'm now looking into. The frames being sent to the decoder appear to be about half the size that it's designed to handle.
Specifically, the integer divide of input size \ GSMBLOCKSIZE was zero because size was < GSMBLOCKSIZE. If this size was zero, the encoder initially just exited. I changed the code so that if the division = zero and the original size was greater than zero then the divided size was now 1 instead of 0. Result was identical garbled audio in both directions.
It may actually be the "double frame" encoding/decoding logic that's dying. This GSM codec was designed for the audio ACM system and the RTC system may well be quite different....
Dr what have you done you mighht actually have to use a responder
RTC dll i would tell tomorrow however it will surface tonight i would expect it to. with all the network drops i have soembody better email a fake one.
Just tell you are aware of trixy and that i am not a fan of the model solution takes 15 mins but i am not a fan i am if it is for your house the key is to not spend any money i failed. trixy comes in all forms and Phonn lattttyy does not need any more advertising. Unless you say so, i don't say it to much trust me in fact the west coast best called me to tell me he was shocked about the revelations. In fact i have been asked to plan and design a company structure 50 times on astrik never it sfree. I am a businessman and don';t get out of bed for less than a nickel or if you ask for my help. I built a phone system with instructions simply the desire for the perfect ADD autistic solution. A+B=C no games in your face gorilla direct marketing ...............we can get into that later.
Please don't push trixy unless you have a reason and im ok with that but please mispel. Is the fact that i dealt with them as a customer inquiring blind ready to buy so my opinion is like business i have no friends and am not biast in any which way or form. Respect plays a great deal for me.
Non the less you just sped me up of why no need to answer. Please look at some of my bulll regarding a way out. All we need is a way out well this little basted showed up today and no i am armed but let please make this
http://www.hp.com/rnd/products/switches/switch2324-2312/overview.htm
Why is it not your friend because the day you plug a monitor and key board into a pbx it now becomes a computer and it doesn't say that in the manual.
this things need to be configured once walk never go back dont surf the mnet on your meal ticket or allow it too.
Business only.
Home eat off it.
Why would one want to play in this game well thats where i come in.
Here is why evryone gets a piece
1.XDA takes the left side (usa the glutens consumers right here right now).
2. I will get6 the data free thats my goal it will come
3. we have cellular for free it would motivate our off shore friends to stop looking straight and look up and see that with the right team the your everyday is worth all the money not me jeeves my rodeo is over, but i don't stand alone.
3. I think voip was invented off shore and i want to see the pie piper cause i did it in less than 5 minutes while i was peaking over seas on an analog line. My very good friend laughed and said why do have so much interest in tis idea like he has had one for ever.
Omega can handle the basic questions sleuth don't stop keep going i will be back later unless you reply but i am burried.
I have always believed that a true hack is someone that doesn't want to be pointed or controlled for mew it was just i need it right right now. And of course a man down or payroll. If i didn't kick the door down then i would be in the Microsoft forum across street. yet we all stay on windows what lovely world
To all the new people the m,ember in my name stands for my member and please follow
these rule if you may
Just understand if u asked most likely you will get an answer but why stop this it will be done in less than a month.
T-mobile well i think $5.99 is good enough for us to a least spend a little time on a full lock down
IF you want to say something it does not have to make sense. Only a robot talks before they think!!!!
Governor i take it you will come up with gold and the hermes in front of me just gave me a light no screen but a light so by morning
PS i will not be a part of turning a domestic company into a major player i will not have a board on this and this is for strictly the love of the game
The soft phone was brilliant like my title this simply a forum for Slueth powered by xda inspired by the mind of a gorilla.
Sleuth picture and generic links gets peoples attention a whole lot faster you just turned us into support know what i mean.
But besides the pda no pbx thier is no need for that. Anyone want in pm The dr up thier you want that stuff
Slueth those are the visuals i need now i keep on you with the acm **** dont get mad when i tell you about the stack
**** meaning reference not idea or client
ACM< if gfor the big boys all one solution I love it but i wrote it
see u later sir
i got $1000 says just like all software that t-mobile client is siop
look at the t-mobile version and apple no ego i you dont and do what i cant read.
The answer is out their like he said you should push a button. HEre look at this how i do it.l
http://client.hotspot.t-mobile.com/
http://client.hotspot.t-mobile.com/
I mean come on i don't need to tell you download the t-mobile client tell me what you say anything t-mobile is crackable they based of cracker land and they believe in sharing or taking the entire industry ewho cares the clinet you have may be dead but who knows
You need a way to talk to the pbx with your cell. So let give you facts thier are no parameters and 80
% is marketing i know i iwrite the pityches
So take a client 98 it does not matter if it works on cups and yarn it will easly transition
For instance i install cabs until my phones crash and let me tell the big boys cabs work on all mobile so i believe and again i don't know if you read the t mobile site like view the code tools page info mozzilaa the flag of who they are using is their and the client they donut know what they got it will be the full version no seciruity and wide open it the patches and upgrades r ember i didn't know that you could licenses software i just unplugged the dongle or key and went back to work. ALl businesss and they first $50,000 solutions had no security.
Anyone from overseas has a never mind sleuth its time to copy paste all the worlds carriers that how you do it. If t-mobile does not pick an aragant country and you will find someone that is exerting their dominance
All you guys reading fdeel free to drop a line on your carier i will hit them by night .
Just like abhove
they are giving you your answer. maybe not the way you want iot but a wy to go fast and efeciant.
then i always look at the bottom by law they have to show you thier kitty kat
T-Mobile HotSpot Security Statement
In providing this Security Statement and the Frequently Asked Questions ("FAQs") that follow, we want you to be better informed about the security limitations and features of the T-Mobile HotSpot service.
Our T-Mobile HotSpot network is based on wireless local area networks ("WLANs") that use evolving technology based on the IEEE 802.11b/g standards. WLANs, which enable "over-the-air" communications, may be subject to unauthorized interception and are not inherently secure. Additionally, a laptop computer, personal digital assistant ("PDA") or other device using wireless connections may be more vulnerable to unauthorized attempts to access data and software stored on the device. We therefore cannot guarantee the privacy of your data and communications while using the T-Mobile HotSpot service.
However, we have designed the T-Mobile HotSpot network and provide certain encryption technologies to better safeguard your wireless communications. We also support customer-provided security solutions, such as virtual private networks ("VPNs"), personal firewalls, and anti-virus software. For your protection, at all T-Mobile HotSpot locations your credit card or other payment card information, as well as any personal information that you send to us via our website when signing up for HotSpot service, is encrypted using secure socket layer ("SSL") technology which prevents unauthorized persons from reading that information. SSL technology is the standard for data encryption and server-side authentication for secure Web-based transactions (such as e-commerce). Additionally, we encrypt your user name and password each time that you submit them to access the T-Mobile HotSpot service.
We also offer an enhanced wireless security technology over our entire T-Mobile HotSpot network known as Wi-Fi Protected Access ("WPA") with 802.1x. Once you are authenticated onto the T-Mobile HotSpot network, WPA with 802.1x encrypts all of your data traffic when it is transmitted wirelessly from your Wi-Fi device to the T-Mobile-installed, Wi-Fi access points at each T-Mobile HotSpot location. This encryption technology helps protect against unauthorized interception of your data while it is transmitted "over the air", and it helps to mitigate against session hijacking (the ability for unauthorized individuals to access Wi-Fi service for free by using a customer's session).
You may take advantage of our WPA with 802.1x security enhancement when you install our new T-Mobile Connection Manager (version 1.5 or more current release) on your Wi-Fi device. Another advantage of the T-Mobile Connection Manager is that it automatically validates the T-Mobile HotSpot network when authenticating, thus ensuring that the customer is connected to a legitimate T-Mobile HotSpot network and not an unintended third-party Wi-Fi network.
The new T-Mobile Connection Manager is available for download at http://client.hotspot.t-mobile.com, or, if you prefer, you may obtain it in CD format at no charge from many of our retail stores and participating HotSpot locations. You can confirm that the WPA with 802.1x software is functioning by looking for the "1X" on your Connection Manager user interface. Should you have any problem
If you choose not to use the T-Mobile Connection Manager, you may use compatible WPA with 802.1x software designed by other companies. However, proper configuration of such third-party software is necessary in order for the solution to work and to mitigate against security vulnerabilities. T-Mobile does not support and cannot guarantee the functionality of third-party WPA with 802.1x software.
Please note, however, that WPA with 802.1x does not protect your data when it is transmitted over the Internet. Once you connect to the Internet, it is your responsibility to use appropriate encryption technologies such as a VPN or to use websites that offer SSL technology. We do not provide protection for any Internet communications. You should be especially careful when transmitting user names, passwords, credit card numbers, financial data and other sensitive and confidential information across the Internet without ensuring that appropriate security precautions are in place. Depending on your situation, these communications may be transmitted without encryption and may be vulnerable to unauthorized interception in the HotSpot location or on the Internet.
T-Mobile HotSpot strongly recommends you take measures to secure your Wi-Fi devices and Internet communications. We encourage and support many customer-provided security solutions, such as VPNs, personal firewalls, anti-virus software and the use of websites that provide SSL encryption for your data. It is your responsibility, however, to take these precautions and provide security measures best suited to your situation and intended use of the service. We do not currently provide these solutions and cannot guarantee or otherwise be responsible for their effectiveness.
Please note that appropriate safeguards should be used for any type of wireless technology or Internet access via any service provider. If you are interested in learning more, a few sources of additional information are: the National Infrastructure Protection Center's website at http://www.nipc.gov/publications/nipcpub/bestpract.html and CERT's website at http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html.
Below are some tips that can help you protect yourself when using the
T-Mobile HotSpot service or any other public Wi-Fi service to access the Internet:
Use the T-Mobile HotSpot Connection Manager software which, when installed on a laptop, automatically validates the T-Mobile HotSpot network when authenticating and encrypts "over the air" communications
If you are using a browser, verify that it is using SSL to validate the T-Mobile HotSpot network via server-side authentication
Ensure that any website to which you are transmitting sensitive personal or financial information uses SSL technology. To confirm that a website is using SSL:
Look for the "https://..." in the URL address
Look for a closed padlock (or key) icon in the bottom right-hand corner of your Internet browser as indicators you are accessing a secure site
Do not ignore security warnings from the browser
Inspect the Web site address in your browser's URL field to ensure you are communicating with the correct, secure Web site
Use VPNs and personal firewalls
Use anti-virus software and keep the software updated
Be aware that others may be able to look "over your shoulder" to see your login, credit card, or other personal information while using the service. The use of a privacy screen on your computer screen may help prevent others from seeing what is on your computer.
Properly log out of web sites by clicking log out instead of just closing your browser, or typing in a new Internet address
Avoid using web-based email or instant messaging that uses clear (unencrypted) text to send information you deem confidential
Remove or disable your wireless card if you are working offline on your computer and you are not planning to connect to the HotSpot service
get me off this limit member mky ass your lucky here i waiting to post ****
AGlossary of WLAN security acronyms
802.11b/g Industry standards designation for wireless ethernet
SSL Secure Socket Layer
PDA Personal Digital Assistant
VPN Virtual Private Network
WEP Wireline Equivalent Privacy
Wi-Fi Industry brand designation for wireless ethernet
WLAN Wireless Local Area Network
WPA Wi-Fi Protected Access.
i m out i didn't read but oi know companies now r ember they contradict hot spots with the card that goes into the laptop hot spots are wifi but also fre gprs back door read into that i cant this takes me hours to type
What is the difference between PC Direct and Access Internet?
What do they refer to please?
What do we have to do to incur charges for these?
This might help:
http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/en/important/20080618_2/index.html
Even if we pay for Unlimited Packet Discount - are there any popular internet apps that we should avoid because of unexpected costs?
(For example YouTube via Coreplayer or something?)
Finally: Are there any financial/packet risks using apps on the phone while it is charging from the USB via the PC?
Much appreciate any advice.
YoungOldDude said:
What is the difference between PC Direct and Access Internet?
What do they refer to please?
What do we have to do to incur charges for these?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, this is complicated, but I think I have it figured out pretty well.
Unlimited Packet Discount is the flat rate data plan for Softbank. The minimum cost is always 980, but the maximum cost depends on how you use the internet.
If you use a regular Softbank phone (not X-Series) and stay within their "walled garden" of sites that pay Softbank to be in the walled garden then the maximum cost is 4200.
If you use a regular Softbank phone (not X-Series) and don't stay within the walled garden, then the maximum cost is 5985. (This is called PC Site Browser)
If you use an X-Series phone (with the proper AP which comes preinstalled on the stock ROM), then the maximum cost is 9800.
The introduction of the iPhone brought yet ANOTHER flat rate plan into being. It is called Packet Flat-rate Full. It starts at 980 and maxes-out at 5985. Though it is too soon to tell for sure, it seems that this flat rate applies to all phones and all methods of accessing data.
This might help:
http://mb.softbank.jp/mb/en/important/20080618_2/index.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I am reading between the lines correctly, the most prevalent thing that site says is that you shouldn't use your phone as a modem for your PC.
Even if we pay for Unlimited Packet Discount - are there any popular internet apps that we should avoid because of unexpected costs?
(For example YouTube via Coreplayer or something?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I know about. Except for using it as a modem for your PC, you should be able to do anything you like with it. However, I am sure they will find a way to screw you if they really want to. One caveat:
Make sure you have the flat-rate AP installed if you are not using the stock Softbank ROM. Otherwise you could be using the open, non-capped (and muuuuch more expensive) AP.
Finally: Are there any financial/packet risks using apps on the phone while it is charging from the USB via the PC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes actually, in a way there may be. Many programs update automatically when cradled, assuming that there is a live internet connection available from the PC. If the PC is not connected, or if it is behind a proxy, or if Activestync is being stupid, these automatic updates could default to your cellular connection.
The best way to make sure you aren't risking packets is to go into your commmanager and turn your cellular radio off.
PS, Kudos for putting this in the Networking section where it belongs instead of tacking this on one of the long, already disjointed Softbank-themed discussions in the Hermes and Kaiser sections.
Thanks very much for the effort and attention to your reply.
I'm still not 100% sure what the differences are between PC Direct and Access Int?... (My PC Direct is taken care of by my packet discount but my access internet is over $1000 that I have to pay. Talk about an expensive screw up!)
内訳 アクセスＩＮＴ＠０．２円 ５２５２１８Ｐｋｔ (Access Int)
内訳 ＰＣダイレクト＠０．０８円 ６０６３８Ｐｋｔ (PC Direct)
I assume it isn't too easy to use the phone as my PC modem accidentally?
I'm trying to cover all bases and not make the same mistakes again.
(I'm getting paranoid just plugging the USB cable in to upload a cab file - at least until I figure out my bills with SB staff)
(It is a little confusing just getting this bill when I reverted back to the original rom and default settings on September 1st and paid my $550 SoftBank bill on Friday (2 days ago)
(Thanks for your PM too.)
Hi, I am sorry to hear about your bill...
Maybe you can help us figure out exactly what happened by giving us a list of the Apps you have on your phone, and how frequently you use them. There is a lot of misinformation floating around on the Internet regarding using the X series on Softbank, so by putting as much information as possible on threads like this will go a long way. First off, what device are you using (probably the X01HT with a non-oem ROM)? What AP were you using? And finally, what apps were you using?
I have been using a stock X02HT for several months, first on the Unlimited Packet Discount plan (980-9800), and for the last month, on the new iPhone/X Series plan (5985). I have never had a huge bill yet. I use on a regular bases Hotmail and Gmail (IMAP) access using Pocket Outlook, PIE, ActiveSync OTA, Pocket Weather updates, random applications updates (Resco, etc), and IMPlus. I can safely assume that all of these activities are safe.
Well first of all it's a SoftBank X01T (Toshiba G900) which isn't supported on this forum as far as the phone model is concerned.
However, many of us share quite similar SoftBank billing plans, rates or charges.
At the end of the day - I changed the rom and used the wrong Access Point and password - from what I can tell. (SoftBank - don't even entertain the idea of talking about this stuff). For a couple of months I hardly used the net with the new rom and my bill was small.
Then I bought CorePlayer and decided to test it's built-in YouTube client on a couple of occasions. That's when all of my money was sucked out of my pockets, life and near future.
SoftBank tell you ONE DAY after you reach your first $500. So by the time you find out - you have possibly doubled that.
Like many phones - updates are not offered by SoftBank for this model.
Although I was trying not to be on the defensive - the SoftBank telephone rep already had me shaved and shackled as soon as I mentioned that I changed a few settings on my `Windows PC phone'. I quote "That's what people with Windows do."
I should have reminded them that it's the Mac lovers who are happy to spend a little more.
Anyway - if you need more info - I'll be hanging around Tokyo station with a cup in my hand. (No disrespect to anyone intended).
Cheers.
ps. For the record - I went back to the original rom with default connection settings.
Anyone looking for information about Softbank's flat rate Access Protocol, please refer to the following thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441400
Thanks.
Thanks
@ larsuk,
My request is network related so I didn't know if I should post it here or attached to the end of the other Softbank threads...
In any case, thanks to Grant and larsuk for explaining what happened to me when I surfed the web from my PC, using my Nokia with a Vodafone (SB) USIM testing my phone's modem adapter and my 3G connection.
I applied for the SB unlimited data plan in view of a trip around Japan as I wanted to use my Nokia as a PC modem. I tested my phone's modem adapter and my 3G connection by surfing the web from my PC for a couple of days and all went well...
That is until my next SB bill hit me! It was monstrous! Almost 7,000US$!!!
I managed to talk my way out of it with an understanding SB representative who waived almost everything considering my obvious good faith. Japan may totally lack any traces of common sense or practical thinking but I love the genuine kindness and its kind of "paternalistic" approach to laws and regulations: they do let off first time offenders with a warning.
Anyway, thanks for explaining waht happened! Now... I know that this forum doesn't support Symbian but, RayBmade a very handy Softbank cab which seems to work miracles on Windows and Android and I couldn't find anything like it on any Symbian forum. Any chances that that cab may find its way into the Symbian world or any way to modify the APN on a Symbian device?
I have now bought an hTC DHD from Softbank and I wonder how I survived on Symbian for so long but, still, I'm not ready to throw away my N8 (I need 2 phones for 2 numbers).
Thanks...
Tommaso
So I know that t-mobile has a soft cap on data confirmed by the tech reps at t-mobile.
I probably shouldnt have admitted that I tether but I did. She said that tethering is not allowed so after 2gig data my speeds slow down while laptop connected.
As I understand They have no way of telling If I am tethering or so I thought.
So my question is this. Can they actually tell when you are tether or Is data data no matter what the destination.
Secondly Ive noticed while using Energy room and activating the wifi function It gives me the choice of t-mobile internet, t-mobile mms, and T-mobile data.
Can anyone give me info on the difference between internet and data options.
I also noticed that my internet connection does not work when t-mobile internet is selected.
On determining if phone is tethered or not:
Yes, it is very easy, from a wireless provider perspective, to determine if your phone has shared it's connection to another device. Each internet request includes a lot of information about the requesting device.
Potential Methods could include:
Provider uses certain ports for data, yet if you share a connection, good chance communication flow from comp will originate/request from differing ports
Most probable is reading the HTTP header information to determine user agent. A UA is almost like telling the server what type of program will be receiving the information. Different systems use different character sets, interpret code slightly differently, etc. If you tether, the header will easily show originating request is not from a phone.
Now this is not an exhaustive list, but just an example. What's important, is the effort associated with this activity. Depending upon what type of analysis is being done, the level of packet information being reviewed takes a certain amount of processing power, policies, procedures, metrics, false-positives, regulatory implications, etc. So, you have to look at a cost/benefit from carriers perspective. What could happen, is the carrier looks at the high-use customers, and selects them as their population for completing review. Then do either a systemic review, or ad-hoc scans of usage to determine probable tethering.
Basically, don't start downloading Gigs of data and your chances of being caught/reviewed will diminish significantly. Although, as more demand is being placed on data, and tethering increases it's ability to generate income, more incentive will exist for enhanced packet analysis. Plus this method is not 100% reliable, because this information is often incorrect, changed/disabled easily and not all data traffic is necessarily internet IE Port 80...Devices send lots of information out outside of your normal internet browsing.
Moschdog said:
Although, as more demand is being placed on data, and tethering increases it's ability to generate income, more incentive will exist for enhanced packet analysis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This part is key; even if someone doesn't get "caught" tethering by their carrier and charged for it now, the time is coming soon when it will become a separate income stream for every carrier...and therefore their methods to accurately identify its use will become far broader and more thorough. I give it a year, sooner if the infrastructure moschdog describes can be deployed quickly enough. I have no doubts the plans for that are much farther along than is publicly discussed.
mosch, excellent points and a great explanation all around, thank you
wow ,
didnt expect such a detailed explanation. I am always looking to increase my knowledge and I think you for taking the time to explain.
I dont download gigs of data, just a lot of energy rom's .Probably the biggest flag Is online gaming. Recrently I havent done that due to not having time.
I felt that they had been throttling my speed because I use tethering so much.
Right now its the only option I have for internet access. I couldnt see downloading gigs of data on this connection that its so slow.
This was my most recent speed test.
http://www.dslreports.com/im/89812094/6016.png
This is a rare speed. Usually I get below 500kb/s
I wonder if i have some settings Incorrect.
Is essentially packet sniffing to read the UA string LEGAL for a provider to do? Its one thing to look at destinations of packets and the ports that packets are arriving/leaving on. Its a completely separate matter to actually look at the packet's payload data because then you can accidentally stumble upon all kinds of other info. Google has already gotten themselves in some hot water for recording packet payload data on unencrypted WiFi access points while their google street view cars are out driving around.