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I have recently been told the following about the way carriers figure out GPRS charges. This is something they were apparently told by someone at O2 UK, but I thought I would check whether it is or is not BS....
Since GPRS is an always on service the network doesn't monitor when you use it. THE PHONE DOES. The phone/sim card records information on data transferred and then once in a while uploads that information to the O2 network this is why your GPRS charges may appear on your bill way after you actually used it.
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Now this raises two issues in my mind.
1) If your phone does the calculations and your phone is hackable, why do people not get free data?
2) This doesn't agree with what I know about networks and how to use them. Surely my phone goes onto a carriers network and gets a private IP, will navigate through a NAT to pick up my email or browse the web and network management tools on the carriers network wil monitor what traffic I cause and this will be polled at the end of the day, thereby accounting for the delay.
Which leads me to a final question - if I am right and the quote is incorrect, how are IPs allocated? Are they static to accounts? (They are private so the carriers could have 256^3 entries) Or are they dynamic? (Because they are lazy and would rather try to update tables as old dial-up ISPs used to do).
Any feedback and/or corrections greatly appreciated.
I can't say one way or another with certainty, but my logic agrees with your conclusions. Like you said, someone would have hacked it by now.
Aside from that, I have a couple different phones that I frequently switch my SIM between. What if I use a bunch of data on phone A, then swap my SIM over to phone B, and leave phone A off for weeks or months? Or for that matter, what if I am using one phone with two different SIMs? Say I use a bunch of data on SIM A which has a data plan, then swap in SIM B with no data plan, and then the phone decides to report my day's usage to the network?
I have to think that the phone company tracks data usage my IP. When you request data, the network must have to identify your SIM as being attached to an account with a data plan. Even if they assign a different IP for each session, that IP would still be tied to your SIM. I have to think that they meter your data by your IP address.
If anyone knows for sure (or can poke holes in my logic) I'd love to hear it.
i believe this is the old case of not always being the best and brigtest who are in customer contact support
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service
there are countless cases of support and sales people speaking out their rear end
it would be crazy to put the phone itself in charge of keeping track of what was downloaded
when it's not the case of normal phone calls or sms's or mms's (which also use gprs)
or old analog modems for pc's which is the closest thing one can compare gprs with
could also be something he said to get people to buy grps monitoring software rather then bothering him about their usage or asking for them to supply a service for users to see
and maybe even limit their usage and cost the company a bit of overusage income
I just did a speedtest on my home internet connection, then did the exact same speedtest using my phone as my internet connection, and sinc eI have crappy DSL at home, my phone actually beat it. Home connection was around 1000/400kbps and phone was around 1500/600kbps.
So, my question is, since I never use my internet when I am away from home, can I ditch my home service and use my phone as the modem all the time when I am home?
I have the unlimited data plan from verizon, just added it a week ago...is there a limit? I heard back in 2007 there is a 5GB limit that they dont tell you about, but is there still an unspoken data limit on the unlimited plans? Thanks!!
P.S. - I download like 10-20GB a month of music (all legal through a paid subscrition service) and another 20-30gb a month via IRC transferring large project files when I work at home. Will that much data be a problem?? Will Verizon cut me off?
There is a 5GB limit on VZW's data plans.... So i would either upgrade services or change providers, but that wont help if you are far from the central office for your DSL service.
I spoke to a friend that works at verizon, he explained that after reaching the 5GB mark, there wont be any extra charges (as long as you have the unlimited data plan). But they will slow down the connection to something similar to a dialup speed.
I am not sure of the accuracy on this, but this is what they were instructed to say regarding it. Basically cellphone companies dont want you using their bandwidth to replace their home isp...
I am with sprint now, and so far I don't think they have added the 5GB cap... so I continue to use my cell as my isp, but if I see they slow the connection down, I will have to steal a wifi connection from one of my neighbors!!!
from what ive seen, they just cut your off completely. You dont get any more data that month if you break the 5GB limit. That is if you have their 5GB plan, if you have unlimited they cannot cut you off. period.
Also, i was not made aware of this 5GB landmark they set for unlimited users....
I have unlimited. Verizon does not have a "5gb plan", they only have 10mb and unlimited.
crobs808 said:
I have unlimited. Verizon does not have a "5gb plan", they only have 10mb and unlimited.
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Check this out Yodaman,
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...catId=409&action=viewPlanDisplay&planId=46740
they have a 5GB plan but i think its for wireless broadband and not necessarily for pda/smartphone browsing... i hear much talk about the national carriers moving to the 5GB cap... but I cant find anything solid on the subject...
aledc78 said:
Check this out Yodaman,
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...catId=409&action=viewPlanDisplay&planId=46740
they have a 5GB plan but i think its for wireless broadband and not necessarily for pda/smartphone browsing... i hear much talk about the national carriers moving to the 5GB cap... but I cant find anything solid on the subject...
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the 5gb plan is stand alone and apart from your phone service...you can get that if you have a VZcard for your laptop...but as far as "phone data plans" there isnt a 5gb one.
crobs808 said:
the 5gb plan is stand alone and apart from your phone service...you can get that if you have a VZcard for your laptop...but as far as "phone data plans" there isnt a 5gb one.
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cool...thanks...
I have considered to move to verizon based on the phone selection... but i pay so much less with sprint... so im sticking to them for now...
All of Verizon plans have a 5GB cap. I believe same with ATT and now soon to be Sprint. You cant run to anyone any more. My home connection is 10MB so going to Rev A VZW is not worth it. I use WIFI at home and VZW every where else.
Only tethered to laptop a few times...once with titan and once with friends 3G TILT... UNCOMPARABLE... took forever on TITAN...couldnt rely/put up with it daily..maby if i had 3g but i dont so I would stick having a seperate ISP
prepsssuck said:
Only tethered to laptop a few times...once with titan and once with friends 3G TILT... UNCOMPARABLE... took forever on TITAN...couldnt rely/put up with it daily..maby if we had 3g but we dont so I would stick having a seperate ISP
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Interesting.
At the office I tether my laptop to my XV-6800... it's faster than my companys' network. I've used it at hotels too. I don't know where you are located, but the places I've used it, it was as fast or faster than the networks I was sitting at.
I have spoken to VZW's tech reps in the past several months, they do have new data plans. BUT, our (or at least my) unlimited data plan is just that: Unlimited.
Splitter said:
Interesting.
At the office I tether my laptop to my XV-6800... it's faster than my companys' network. I've used it at hotels too. I don't know where you are located, but the places I've used it, it was as fast or faster than the networks I was sitting at.
I have spoken to VZW's tech reps in the past several months, they do have new data plans. BUT, our (or at least my) unlimited data plan is just that: Unlimited.
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Im in a NON-EVDO NON REV-A craphole...Everwhere 10 miles around the city I live in has EVDO...just not in the city. But even when I tried with evdo It still wasnt comparable.
When I got service at alltel they asked if I wanted to use as a modem for pc and if I was they wanted to charge an addition 9.99 a month for the service...even with my unlimited plan.... I have always heard that if they start seeing huge data downloads from your account they will try charging for it.....KEYWORD "HEARD"
I am actually having good luck using it as a modem. I still have landline internet thats faster. But for my laptop I use my titan with wifi to send internet to it. Seems okay..with download speeds of 50 kilobytes to 200 kilobytes a second depending where I am downloading from.
My biggest issue with it though is since its getting to summer..my phone is overheating from the strain so I gotta put a fan on it so it don't run out of battery.
I hope we won't be having this conversation in a year once sprint Wimax is available. Your Cable ISP is suppose to be providing wireless Wimax access for less ( I don't think greedy Communistcast will give it away for free). I heard one of the Cable ISP is already doing it in tri-state area. I can't recall their, read in paper few weeks ago. This way hard lined ISP will have fighting chance as oppose to fixed phone versus cellphones...
I seriously cant believe people think about replacing their home connections with their cell phone. I mean the phone is great and it is fast. But how quick we forget at least on verizon unless your paying near 60 a month for just the data plan with the 15 dollars for modem usage rights that we are teathering illegally. I teather my phone all the time with the hacked os its running but I dont abuse the connection I just browse the internet download smaller files and pictures and msg on it. ITs more of a connection for when your out traveling on the road or not at home and need an internet connection. I think its straight abuse of the connection to be pulling through 10 to 20 gigs a month on a cell phone network and its just asking for them to redflag your account and look into how your using all of your data. Id save my big downloading for a cable connection thats what they are designed for.
leedawg said:
I seriously cant believe people think about replacing their home connections with their cell phone. I mean the phone is great and it is fast. But how quick we forget at least on verizon unless your paying near 60 a month for just the data plan with the 15 dollars for modem usage rights that we are teathering illegally. I teather my phone all the time with the hacked os its running but I dont abuse the connection I just browse the internet download smaller files and pictures and msg on it. ITs more of a connection for when your out traveling on the road or not at home and need an internet connection. I think its straight abuse of the connection to be pulling through 10 to 20 gigs a month on a cell phone network and its just asking for them to redflag your account and look into how your using all of your data. Id save my big downloading for a cable connection thats what they are designed for.
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whoa buddy....you are getting taken to the cleaners, or duped by some customer service rep if they are charging you that....
quote: "60 a month for just the data plan with the 15 dollars for modem usage rights"
The national rate for VZW customers is $29.99 for unlimited data, including the use as a modem. The actual VZW repguy told me that he uses his as a modem to download stuff from rapidshare, and maxes out both his rapidshare premium accounts (which by the way have a 25gb limit every 5 days)...so that is a TON of data.I am here to dispell all the myths that they will cut you off if you use 'X' amount of data, or use it as a modem (which the rep also said many people do, which is fine)
FYI - the stock verizon rom came with internet sharing by the way, so it isnt a ROM hack to be able to use it as a modem, it is part of WM6!
People on here need to stop spreading rumors about how verizon will cut you off, and having limits on the unlimited plan, etc...they do no such thing.
gTen said:
...My biggest issue with it though is since its getting to summer..my phone is overheating from the strain so I gotta put a fan on it so it don't run out of battery.
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You gotta put a fan on it? what??? I live in Texas....it was 102 yesterday and 97 today and my phone is fine...do you live somewhere hotter?
crobs808 said:
whoa buddy....you are getting taken to the cleaners, or duped by some customer service rep if they are charging you that....
quote: "60 a month for just the data plan with the 15 dollars for modem usage rights"
The national rate for VZW customers is $29.99 for unlimited data, including the use as a modem. The actual VZW repguy told me that he uses his as a modem to download stuff from rapidshare, and maxes out both his rapidshare premium accounts (which by the way have a 25gb limit every 5 days)...so that is a TON of data.I am here to dispell all the myths that they will cut you off if you use 'X' amount of data, or use it as a modem (which the rep also said many people do, which is fine)
FYI - the stock verizon rom came with internet sharing by the way, so it isnt a ROM hack to be able to use it as a modem, it is part of WM6!
People on here need to stop spreading rumors about how verizon will cut you off, and having limits on the unlimited plan, etc...they do no such thing.
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here is a quote from the old terms of use:
Anyone using more than 5 GB per line in a given month is presumed to be using the service in a manner prohibited above, and we reserve the right to immediately terminate the service of any such person without notice.
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here are the new terms:
If your usage on a Data Plan or Feature that does not include a specific monthly Megabyte allowance or that is not billed on a pay-as-you-use basis exceeds 5 Gigabytes per account line during any billing period, we reserve the right to reduce throughput speed to a maximum of approximately 200 Kilobits per second for up to thirty days.
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currently vzw chrages 49 cents per mb over 5gb, this doesnt appear to be a rumor, as theyve recently been sued over it
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localn...epaper/2008/07/06/c1b_cellphonesuit_0707.html
supposedly sprint is going to start a similar billing system sometime this month
also, besides all this, using the data plan as a replacement for a landline connection is specifically against the terms and conditions
Data Plans and Features: Prohibited Uses.
You may not use our Data Plans and Features for illegal purposes or purposes that infringe upon others’ intellectual property rights, or in a manner that interferes with other users’ service, interferes with the network’s ability to fairly allocate capacity among users, or that otherwise degrades service quality for other users. Examples of prohibited usage include: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including continuous Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file-sharing applications that are broadcast to multiple servers or recipients such that they could enable “bots” or similar routines (as set forth in more detail in (iii) below) or otherwise denigrate network capacity or functionality; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections; (iii) “auto-responders,” “cancel-bots,” or similar automated or manual routines that generate amounts of net traffic that could disrupt net user groups or e-mail use by others; (iv) generating “spam” or unsolicited commercial or bulk e-mail (or activities that facilitate the dissemination of such e-mail); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other users or systems to use either Verizon Wireless’ services or the Internet-based resources of others, including the generation or dissemination of viruses, malware, or “denial of service” attacks; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the information, accounts or devices of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, Verizon Wireless’ or another entity’s network or systems; or (vii) running software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer’s connection would otherwise be idle, or “keep alive” functions, unless they adhere to Verizon Wireless’ requirements for such usage, which may be changed from time to time. By way of example only, you may not use a Data Plan or Feature for web broadcasting, or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices.
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....of course i use my sprint connection as a backup when my cable is out, im just making sure people understand that they are in fact breaking rules and shouldnt get pissed if they get nailed for it
defaultdotxbe said:
Data Plans and Features: Prohibited Uses.
You may not use our Data Plans and Features for illegal purposes or purposes that infringe upon others’ intellectual property rights, or in a manner that interferes with other users’ service, interferes with the network’s ability to fairly allocate capacity among users, or that otherwise degrades service quality for other users. Examples of prohibited usage include: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including continuous Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file-sharing applications that are broadcast to multiple servers or recipients such that they could enable “bots” or similar routines (as set forth in more detail in (iii) below) or otherwise denigrate network capacity or functionality; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections; (iii) “auto-responders,” “cancel-bots,” or similar automated or manual routines that generate amounts of net traffic that could disrupt net user groups or e-mail use by others; (iv) generating “spam” or unsolicited commercial or bulk e-mail (or activities that facilitate the dissemination of such e-mail); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other users or systems to use either Verizon Wireless’ services or the Internet-based resources of others, including the generation or dissemination of viruses, malware, or “denial of service” attacks; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the information, accounts or devices of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, Verizon Wireless’ or another entity’s network or systems; or (vii) running software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer’s connection would otherwise be idle, or “keep alive” functions, unless they adhere to Verizon Wireless’ requirements for such usage, which may be changed from time to time. By way of example only, you may not use a Data Plan or Feature for web broadcasting, or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices.
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Ha...did you read that ENTIRE section of what is prohibited? Nowhere in there does it talk about restricting modem use. In fact, it only talks about the most extreme stuff like copyright infringement, bots, using it to HOST a p2p sharing protocol, or using it for security/suveilance services, etc...
The reason they do not address modem usage is because it is 100% ALLOWED!
There is actually a verizon advertisment where a guy is frustrated in an airport and cannot get a wireless connection. He pulls out his WiFi PCMCIA card, throws it in a trash bin, and hits a button on his phone. Verizon is SELLING the fact that you can use their phones as internet connections. For crying out loud, the slogan on the ad was "Internet. Anywhere. Anytime." and it shows the guy still there at night browsing the net, in a dark airport and nobody is around.
I mean obviously they have changed their policy since NOTHING in that paragraph you wrote talks about limiting data usage, and the Verizon Rep specifically told me that there is no 5gb cap anymore, and there hasn't been since November. That case you linked is a year old now. Data usage and plans have evolved a TON in a year...plus, that is when the case was filed...they were suing over something that happened well OVER a year ago, so even more has changed.
Get with it bud Things have changed, no 5gb cap/limit, and unlimited = use however you want as long as it isn't illegal (same as the rules on a home ISP connection)
crobs808 said:
Ha...did you read that ENTIRE section of what is prohibited? Nowhere in there does it talk about restricting modem use. In fact, it only talks about the most extreme stuff like copyright infringement, bots, using it to HOST a p2p sharing protocol, or using it for security/suveilance services, etc...
The reason they do not address modem usage is because it is 100% ALLOWED!
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did you read the bit i bolded about it being used a replacement for landlines?
how about the part about it being cut to 200k after 5gb?
The reason they do not address modem usage is because it is 100% ALLOWED!
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im not talking about tethering charges, im talking about data usage regardless of how its being used
Get with it bud Things have changed, no 5gb cap/limit, and unlimited = use however you want as long as it isn't illegal (same as the rules on a home ISP connection)
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did you read the news article about the guy who got a 9500 dollar bill for going over the 5gb cap? can you explain that? or is that just a risk everyone should be willing to take?
As of tonight I have been getting an sms from t-mo U.S. everytime i start up the wifi sharing. This is the message "Free T-Mobile Msg: Phone Tethering & Wi-Fi Sharing access has been blocked. Please add a Phone Tethering & Wi-Fi......."
I never used it much so its not the end of the world, nor am I here to discuss wether or not it is. I am more interested in simply understanding how it is that they determine I was using the data on my laptop as opposed to my phone. Im sure others have discussed how this could be done in the past but I specifically curious how T-MO US detects this.
Because your phone turns into a NAT router and a major carrier's proxy server is not exactly monitored by one fat slob in a basement.
The moment you open the browser on your laptop you give the game away. Each request for a web page carries information on the browser you are using. If the browser is non-mobile then they know you are tethered.
You say you never used it much but I spoke at length with an AT&T tech regarding tethering and he told me that they don't actively look for non-mobile browsers but rather they look at the data usage. Mobile browsers tend to request the mobile friendly pages with less data so large chunks of data trigger a flag.
I have been with T-MOUS tech for the better part of the day, apparently my apps that are not working are being recognized as tethering activity by the network. No one at TMO at this point understands why but they can tell that certain applications that access data are triggering the tethering notification, rendering them unable to gain network access. I have had trouble getting F.IM last.fm, internet explorer (at times) yet opera browser and slacker radio work just fine. To prove to T-MO it wasn't my device we initially tested all this again on other SIM Cards and all was well. It sounds to me like they are blocking internet 80 but they assure me that is not the way they prevent tethering. They said that the new system for blocking tethering went up in the last few days at the same time they cut our throttling pt from 10gig to 5gig. I am the first to have this problem or anything similar according to tech. I must add they have been very kind and understanding, they believe me when I tell them I know something and they don't make me hard reset the device or replace battery when I told them I already did that myself. ATT never believed me and always made me repeat myself and processes.
I'm not entirely sure but I think most of the major providers just changed to the "unlimited" plan that is limited as standard so changing provider might not be a good option.
There have to be a bazillion unprotected WAP's near where ever you are...
I've experienced the same in the last 2 days. Now, when I do try to tether, it routes me to a T-Mobile site offering their tethering option for 15 bucks.
Tried the hotspot about an hour ago. so far so good
I was sharing with my zune hd, not a laptop, so that might make a difference. logged into msn messenger and sent some messages, used the FB app, and dl a song. so far no nasty-gram texts from T-mo. I'll let you know if one comes later.
Airborne Aircrew said:
The moment you open the browser on your laptop you give the game away. Each request for a web page carries information on the browser you are using. If the browser is non-mobile then they know you are tethered.
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that's a bit of a broad method. i have opera set to present the FireFox useragent, to bypass mobile sites, are you saying i wouldn't be allowed to do this on t mo us? surely that's illegal? i mean its not like you have to hack opera to make it do it, its a user setting.
what if you wrote your own browser? surely they can't be allowed topresume you are tethering on such flimsy evidence.it would be a bit like doing you for downloading music just because you have some speakers and a computer.
the easy way to test of course is to set your pc useragent to opera.
samsamuel said:
that's a bit of a broad method. i have opera set to present the FireFox useragent, to bypass mobile sites, are you saying i wouldn't be allowed to do this on t mo us? surely that's illegal? i mean its not like you have to hack opera to make it do it, its a user setting.
what if you wrote your own browser? surely they can't be allowed topresume you are tethering on such flimsy evidence.it would be a bit like doing you for downloading music just because you have some speakers and a computer.
the easy way to test of course is to set your pc useragent to opera.
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barring online privacy acts and what-have-you, they could easily read your header and determine that the client/laptop/tethering device does not contain mobile protocol and with reasonable doubt that traffic is getting moved fairly quickly (amount of data relay, TTL, etc) on a "mobile" device, they'll flag the activity. Changing user-agent isn't a problem when they have other concrete methods to track you by.
Like airborne aircrew said, the OP must've sent a huge amount of traffic when he's tethering. That's like saying I only tether once a month, but when I do, I download 4GB torrent...
Its not when I use my PC browser because the message comes as soon as I launch the wi-fi sharing app. If I USB tether then I get a message on my desktop browser.
I called t-mo us
Now apparently my threshold is 5g a month instead of the 10g when I signed up. Also since this tether block several apps can't get online via 3g on my HD2 such as F.IM Facebook instant messenger. (This all stinks because the reason I went to T-MO U.S. is because they never removed usb tether from winmo, and they had the threshold for speed throttling at 10 gigs. Now they have lowered my throttle to 5 gigs and expect me to pay an additional 15 to access those same 5 gigs with my laptop.)
Im not trying to start a debate on their policies or anything just after all that my HD2 itself can't access that value raped service with some apps.
***I added the Wi-Fi Internet sharing app to the phone my self. This is why its so puzzling that they message me as soon as I launch the app.
hecatombercm said:
Now they have lowered my throttle to 5 gigs and expect me to pay an additional 15 to access those same 5 gigs with my laptop.)
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You'll need to do some digging on local state laws but down under if you've signed a term contract the carrier can only upgrade your plan (e.g. 10G to 15G) not downgrade your service until the contract expires. With tactics like that I'd be looking at another carrier and port your phone number across.
visser said:
You'll need to do some digging on local state laws but down under if you've signed a term contract the carrier can only upgrade your plan (e.g. 10G to 15G) not downgrade your service until the contract expires. With tactics like that I'd be looking at another carrier and port your phone number across.
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Yep same here - in my T&C it said that if they change your plan and give you less, you have the right to get out of it there and then.
Very interesting cause the customer service rep admits that I had a 10g throttle point that is now 5g and also admits that the sales rep would have told me I'm allowed to use the built in tethering app modestly. This was my first attempt to tether in several months, and the one time I reached the 10g throttle point I didn't own a laptop so it was all done through the handset. I imagine I'll easily hit the new throttle point now even if I never utilize tethering. Heres and interesting thread over on the t-mo us forums. Someone talks a little bit about how T-Mo determines someone is tethering. http://forums.t-mobile.com/t5/myTouch-4G/tethering/m-p/551487/highlight/false#M5025
Don't know if this is new or not, but I cant recall seeing it before, but when you open the Mobile AP tethering app, it says something about contacting At&t to sign up for a special plan in order to use it?
What is THAT all about? It's been working for me since I first installed a 2.2 rom over a month ago and this evening for some reason, my PS3 and my computer both lost connection. I go to the Mobile AP app which has been powering both devices and I see this At&t crap and now my connection to both no longer works?!?!
Anyone with insight on this?
Are you on AT&T...?
-bZj
The same thing was happening to people who were using tethering apps from the market.
I'm just gonna take a stab in the dark on this one. My understanding is that the only way a carrier can tell if your tethering is based on watching your http:// activity. In other words, are you browsing mobile sites or full sites. I think the only people they'd even look for are heavy users.
Probably what happened is that they realized (through traffic) that you were hitting up http:// and assume your tethering. The only thing you could probably do is to call them and tell them you aren't tethering. Do you get the message if you use something like the SkyFire Browser to go to say the full blown facebook website?
KWKSLVR said:
The same thing was happening to people who were using tethering apps from the market.
I'm just gonna take a stab in the dark on this one. My understanding is that the only way a carrier can tell if your tethering is based on watching your http:// activity. In other words, are you browsing mobile sites or full sites. I think the only people they'd even look for are heavy users.
Probably what happened is that they realized (through traffic) that you were hitting up http:// and assume your tethering. The only thing you could probably do is to call them and tell them you aren't tethering. Do you get the message if you use something like the SkyFire Browser to go to say the full blown facebook website?
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They can actually tell packet by packet if it originated as a phone packet or a tethered data packet. When tethered the phone acts as a modem and it identifies the traffic as modem traffic. They are designed to hit different APNs and the header of the packets themselves are by design dead giveaways. It is rudimentary networking for them to route or track this traffic differently. This said they usually don't bother to worry about it much unless they see abuse from a particular account.
I would bet this is a glitch and is not intentional. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
down8 said:
Are you on AT&T...?
-bZj
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I suppose it would make sense to me if I was on AT&T, but I'm on T-mobile lol.
That's the confusing part!
T mobile has been blocking people lately as well...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Had it during the onyx/obsidian era of roms... never had an issue actually using the mobile ap. I think it was just the rip of the settings app from samsung. It's gone on nero, and I wouldn't worry about it.
Had those issues on the 2.1 custom ROMs. Since Nero, no disconnects whatsoever. Be it wired or wireless tether.
T313C0mun1s7 said:
They can actually tell packet by packet if it originated as a phone packet or a tethered data packet. When tethered the phone acts as a modem and it identifies the traffic as modem traffic. They are designed to hit different APNs and the header of the packets themselves are by design dead giveaways. It is rudimentary networking for them to route or track this traffic differently. This said they usually don't bother to worry about it much unless they see abuse from a particular account.
I would bet this is a glitch and is not intentional. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
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That's what my non-technical brain was trying to say. A buddy of mine explained it to me the exact same way but added that running a script to look at http traffic might be easier than sniffing packets? And most likely a carrier probably wouldn't go looking for it in accounts that aren't being bandwidth hogs. (Although he's an IT Network Guru and not a cell expert and admittedly made some assumptions). Thanks for the info.
I tether seldomly (I have a MiFi for work) but a couple of months back I tethered through the Vibrant one Saturday and streamed over 6 gigs of video from ESPN360. I never heard a peep out of them (I'm usually right around a gig/month).
KWKSLVR said:
That's what my non-technical brain was trying to say. A buddy of mine explained it to me the exact same way but added that running a script to look at http traffic might be easier than sniffing packets? And most likely a carrier probably wouldn't go looking for it in accounts that aren't being bandwidth hogs. (Although he's an IT Network Guru and not a cell expert and admittedly made some assumptions). Thanks for the info.
I tether seldomly (I have a MiFi for work) but a couple of months back I tethered through the Vibrant one Saturday and streamed over 6 gigs of video from ESPN360. I never heard a peep out of them (I'm usually right around a gig/month).
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In networking we have what we call the 7 Layer OSI model. Layer 1 is the physical media, Layer 2 is hardware such as the MAC address, At layer three you get into IP and routing, all the way up to Layer 7 which is application and you can actually filter based on the program being run, for example you can deny any traffic to or from uTorrent.
In enterprise networking Layer 7 gear is now quite common. I am not sure what level T-mobile is using in their switching equipment, but I do know that telling if the traffic is phone or modem is all the way down at the hardware layer. So no packet sniffing would be required. All they need to do is set a policy in the equipment and it will get enforced automatically. Doing it on a customer by customer basis is slightly more complicated as it has to involve the billing system. The billing system is where they are going to control all the non-global settings. This is why they let non-abusers go. Technically stopping you is trivial, but it is not the network admins making the decision, so it becomes part of the can of worms that is politics, policy, and customer service.
Well now that's one hell of an explanation!
KWKSLVR said:
Well now that's one hell of an explanation!
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Thank you. As a Tech I am very well versed in networking and computers with a lot of specific experience in Stand Alone Wireless & Wireless as a service provider, Fiber-to-the-home, Voice over IP, multi-scope/multi-tenant office building as phone and Internet provider, and I even did the worlds first (un-offical) VoIP over Wireless in a production environment. The reason I have had the fun and fortune of getting to do these types of projects though is because I really shine in being able to make the really technical stuff that causes most peoples eyes to gloss over actually make sense to non-technical laypersons. Also, I do it without giving wrong or too overly simplified information.
I think everyone at some level likes to know how stuff really works, they just don't want to have to learn and entirely new paradigm to do it.
Well all is well again. Mobile AP is working fine. Don't know what happened yesterday, but it's all good now.
Thanks for the replies.
what is nero
what is Nero are you talking about the burning software or somthing different?
pjbbigbear44 said:
what is Nero are you talking about the burning software or somthing different?
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Head over to the Vibrant Android Development section. Nero is just one of many Vibrant ROMs. Check them out.
They're looking at the HTTP "USER AGENT" string folks.
It APPEARS that they're only doing it on "newer" accounts and/or data options. Thus far. Incidentally, if they start doing it on those of us with legacy data plans (e.g. "Total Internet") they're going to lose those customers, as we were explicitly sold those plans with the understanding and explicit support of tethering that they built into the devices they sold through "Internet Sharing" (e.g. on the MDA, etc.) Same with "Loyalty Android" that many of us converted to before Tethering became "an option".
It's cool to change the rules for later signups and users, but a serious problem if they try to impose it on people who have been customers for a long time under the previous understanding. And most of us, myself included, are off-contract.
I don't abuse it but if they do it to me I'll be gone in literal minutes.
Genesis3 said:
They're looking at the HTTP "USER AGENT" string folks.
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I'd be interested to find this out definitively. They could check USER_AGENT and they can definitely see if multiple devices are nat'd behind the phone. But I don't know of anything they can use to see if just ONE device is behind a nat'd gateway aside from checking USER_AGENT and making an educated guess.
Wonder if we can get iptables to mangle the HTTP_USER agent or something to that effect.
There are ways around the user agent check (with the proper browser), but they may cause your computer to display web sites in a "mobile" format.
My cable modem went down for a couple of days and while I waited for the cable company to come out I used my Mobile AP. I've been using it on and off during some of my many travels either by using the Mobile AP or by using one of the other apps that someone made.
I have never been charged more for using it and have only been warned of the throttling, which actually never happened. If there was any slow down I would just jump down to 2.75G and go from there.
Hey just a heads up if your 3g is barely working or your wifi is scewy and slow check your account on sprint and see how much data u have used I found out today that i have been throttled down to 30kbs cause i hit 6 gigs and there is a 5gig limit cap for the 3g part 4 g so far doesnt have a cap yet but im sure they will at some point sucks i dont even have 4 g in my area and its gonna be awhile be4 it gets here until then I gotta wait 4 days till my billing cycle clears the old data amount that i used.
reaper24 said:
Hey just a heads up if your 3g is barely working or your wifi is scewy and slow check your account on sprint and see how much data u have used I found out today that i have been throttled down to 30kbs cause i hit 6 gigs and there is a 5gig limit cap for the 3g part 4 g so far doesnt have a cap yet but im sure they will at some point sucks i dont even have 4 g in my area and its gonna be awhile be4 it gets here until then I gotta wait 4 days till my billing cycle clears the old data amount that i used.
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And where did you here this from?
When will people realize Sprint doesn't throttle their telephones?!?!??!
DirtyShroomz said:
When will people realize Sprint doesn't throttle their telephones?!?!??!
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Dude look it up on the fine print sprints data plan i hit 7 gigs and now i cant even use the net.
DirtyShroomz said:
When will people realize Sprint doesn't throttle their telephones?!?!??!
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Prohibited Network Uses. To ensure the activities of some users do not impair the ability of our customers to have access to reliable services provided at reasonable costs, you may not use our services in a manner that is unlawful, infringes on intellectual property rights, or harms or unduly interferes with the use of Sprint's network or systems. Sprint reserves the right, without notice or limitation, to limit data throughput speeds or quantities or to deny, terminate, end, modify, disconnect, or suspend service if an individual engages in any of the prohibited voice or data uses detailed below or if Sprint, in its sole discretion, determines action is necessary to protect its wireless networks from harm or degradation. Examples of prohibited voice uses: Sprint voice services are provided solely for live dialogue between, and initiated by, individuals for personal use and as otherwise described in this policy. Sprint services may not be used for any other purposes, including, but not limited to: monitoring services, transmission of broadcasts, transmission of recorded material, telemarketing, autodialed calls, other commercial uses, or other connections that do not consist of uninterrupted live dialogue between individuals. Examples of prohibited data uses: Sprint data services are provided solely for purposes of web surfing, sending and receiving email, photographs and other similar messaging activities, and the non-continuous streaming of videos, downloading of files or on line gaming. Our data services may not be used: (i) to generate excessive amounts of Internet traffic through the continuous, unattended streaming, downloading or uploading of videos or other files or to operate hosting services including, but not limited to, web or gaming hosting; (ii) to maintain continuous active network connections to the Internet such as through a web camera or machine-to-machine connections that do not involve active participation by a person; (iii) to disrupt email use by others using automated or manual routines, including, but not limited to "auto-responders" or cancel bots or other similar routines; (iv) to transmit or facilitate any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, telemarketing, promotional materials, "junk mail", unsolicited commercial or bulk email, or fax; (v) for activities adversely affecting the ability of other people or systems to use either Sprint's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including, but not limited to, "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) for an activity that connects any device to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network (unless customer is using a plan designated for such usage); or (vi) for any other reason that, in our sole discretion violates our policy of providing service for individual use. Unlimited Use Plans. If you subscribe to rate plans, services or features that are described as unlimited, you should be aware that such "unlimited" plans are subject to these Sprint Prohibited Network Uses.
seee
reaper24 said:
Prohibited Network Uses. To ensure the activities of some users do not impair the ability of our customers to have access to reliable services provided at reasonable costs, you may not use our services in a manner that is unlawful, infringes on intellectual property rights, or harms or unduly interferes with the use of Sprint's network or systems. Sprint reserves the right, without notice or limitation, to limit data throughput speeds or quantities or to deny, terminate, end, modify, disconnect, or suspend service if an individual engages in any of the prohibited voice or data uses detailed below or if Sprint, in its sole discretion, determines action is necessary to protect its wireless networks from harm or degradation. Examples of prohibited voice uses: Sprint voice services are provided solely for live dialogue between, and initiated by, individuals for personal use and as otherwise described in this policy. Sprint services may not be used for any other purposes, including, but not limited to: monitoring services, transmission of broadcasts, transmission of recorded material, telemarketing, autodialed calls, other commercial uses, or other connections that do not consist of uninterrupted live dialogue between individuals. Examples of prohibited data uses: Sprint data services are provided solely for purposes of web surfing, sending and receiving email, photographs and other similar messaging activities, and the non-continuous streaming of videos, downloading of files or on line gaming. Our data services may not be used: (i) to generate excessive amounts of Internet traffic through the continuous, unattended streaming, downloading or uploading of videos or other files or to operate hosting services including, but not limited to, web or gaming hosting; (ii) to maintain continuous active network connections to the Internet such as through a web camera or machine-to-machine connections that do not involve active participation by a person; (iii) to disrupt email use by others using automated or manual routines, including, but not limited to "auto-responders" or cancel bots or other similar routines; (iv) to transmit or facilitate any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, telemarketing, promotional materials, "junk mail", unsolicited commercial or bulk email, or fax; (v) for activities adversely affecting the ability of other people or systems to use either Sprint's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including, but not limited to, "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) for an activity that connects any device to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network (unless customer is using a plan designated for such usage); or (vi) for any other reason that, in our sole discretion violates our policy of providing service for individual use. Unlimited Use Plans. If you subscribe to rate plans, services or features that are described as unlimited, you should be aware that such "unlimited" plans are subject to these Sprint Prohibited Network Uses.
seee
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http://phandroid.com/2010/06/11/data-throttling-coming-to-sprint-this-summer/
Check this out the posts
reaper24 said:
Prohibited Network Uses. To ensure the activities of some users do not impair the ability of our customers to have access to reliable services provided at reasonable costs, you may not use our services in a manner that is unlawful, infringes on intellectual property rights, or harms or unduly interferes with the use of Sprint's network or systems. Sprint reserves the right, without notice or limitation, to limit data throughput speeds or quantities or to deny, terminate, end, modify, disconnect, or suspend service if an individual engages in any of the prohibited voice or data uses detailed below or if Sprint, in its sole discretion, determines action is necessary to protect its wireless networks from harm or degradation. Examples of prohibited voice uses: Sprint voice services are provided solely for live dialogue between, and initiated by, individuals for personal use and as otherwise described in this policy. Sprint services may not be used for any other purposes, including, but not limited to: monitoring services, transmission of broadcasts, transmission of recorded material, telemarketing, autodialed calls, other commercial uses, or other connections that do not consist of uninterrupted live dialogue between individuals. Examples of prohibited data uses: Sprint data services are provided solely for purposes of web surfing, sending and receiving email, photographs and other similar messaging activities, and the non-continuous streaming of videos, downloading of files or on line gaming. Our data services may not be used: (i) to generate excessive amounts of Internet traffic through the continuous, unattended streaming, downloading or uploading of videos or other files or to operate hosting services including, but not limited to, web or gaming hosting; (ii) to maintain continuous active network connections to the Internet such as through a web camera or machine-to-machine connections that do not involve active participation by a person; (iii) to disrupt email use by others using automated or manual routines, including, but not limited to "auto-responders" or cancel bots or other similar routines; (iv) to transmit or facilitate any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, telemarketing, promotional materials, "junk mail", unsolicited commercial or bulk email, or fax; (v) for activities adversely affecting the ability of other people or systems to use either Sprint's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including, but not limited to, "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) for an activity that connects any device to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for the purpose of transmitting wireless data over the network (unless customer is using a plan designated for such usage); or (vi) for any other reason that, in our sole discretion violates our policy of providing service for individual use. Unlimited Use Plans. If you subscribe to rate plans, services or features that are described as unlimited, you should be aware that such "unlimited" plans are subject to these Sprint Prohibited Network Uses.
seee
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Every company has that, it's for legal purposes, it doesn't mean they actually do it. Sprint does not throttle telephones. You think a company will not give themselves the ability to stop or slow down their own services if they absolutely must?
reaper24 said:
http://phandroid.com/2010/06/11/data-throttling-coming-to-sprint-this-summer/
Check this out the posts
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Wow, talk about an OLD (taken out of context) picture.
"Sprint data services are provided solely for purposes of web surfing, sending and receiving email, photographs and other similar messaging activities, and the non-continuous streaming of videos, downloading of files or on line gaming".
This is also what the $10 premium data fee is for. I would double check your service for maintanance on your towers in your area etc. Call Sprint and find out whats going on.
tx_dbs_tx said:
"Sprint data services are provided solely for purposes of web surfing, sending and receiving email, photographs and other similar messaging activities, and the non-continuous streaming of videos, downloading of files or on line gaming".
This is also what the $10 premium data fee is for. I would double check your service for maintanance on your towers in your area etc. Call Sprint and find out whats going on.
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Ya i was gonna do that but my phone is rooted and it be a pain in the ass dealing with the tech folks I know its not the towers cause I have a budddty that lives next door with the same rom and he gets excellent speed 3g so its not the towers. check and see what your data is on your account im at 7 gigs the closer i got to 5 my net slowed way down i have updated everything radios everything prl and even hboot to the latest and no luck only thing i know i am being throttled. lots of folks are getting pissed about slow 3g check google. I know the link i posted up there is outdated alil bit but there is so many people having the same issue. I have read on forums that there is a 5gig limit.
DirtyShroomz said:
Every company has that, it's for legal purposes, it doesn't mean they actually do it. Sprint does not throttle telephones. You think a company will not give themselves the ability to stop or slow down their own services if they absolutely must?
Wow, talk about an OLD (taken out of context) picture.
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I know that its alil old do a search on google about the sprint slowing down data services. everyone is saying there is a 5gig limit. Anyways thanks for reading up
reaper24 said:
I know that its alil old do a search on google about the sprint slowing down data services. everyone is saying there is a 5gig limit. Anyways thanks for reading up
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There used to be. Not any more tho.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
So I guess some of us just magically start having technical issues when we use a certain amount of data then.
Did you all forget to wear your tin foil hats this morning or something?
Pocket posted...
There is no 5gb limit.
sitlet said:
There is no 5gb limit.
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+1... there USED to be.
I hit 15gb this month and I'm still getting over 2mbps down on average. Probably just tower maintenance
DirtyShroomz said:
When will people realize Sprint doesn't throttle their telephones?!?!??!
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Dirty, how do you explain this - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11775733&postcount=282 ?
Clearly there are limits imposed at the tower/switch/something.
possibly getting 4g
Turn your 4g on and see if your getting signal in other areas around town. I just tried that today and I got spotty signal at work. It barely worked. I drove home about 1mile up the road and I got a full 4g signal for the whole hour I was at home. I did some digging and found out the 3g service for the past week or so was horrible because they are testing 4g in my area.
paxworth said:
Turn your 4g on and see if your getting signal in other areas around town. I just tried that today and I got spotty signal at work. It barely worked. I drove home about 1mile up the road and I got a full 4g signal for the whole hour I was at home. I did some digging and found out the 3g service for the past week or so was horrible because they are testing 4g in my area.
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I agree. Same exact thing here where I live. 3G has been total crap since last November. I was two cities away from home yesterday so I turned on 4G for some downloading while I was able to get 4G. I had forgot to turn my 4G off and later yesterday evening I noticed my data speeds in my house was working great. I immediately thought that was strange and that's when I saw my 4G icon with 3 bars lit up! I thought I would never see 4G where I live. Stoked doesn't even begin to describe how excited I am about this!!!
I really do believe Sprint is still rolling out 4G everywhere so people keep checking your 4G occasionally because you could be in for a VERY pleasant suprise like I was. Proof that Sprint IS still rolling out 4G.
gpz1100 said:
Dirty, how do you explain this - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11775733&postcount=282 ?
Clearly there are limits imposed at the tower/switch/something.
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thanks for the link